
BaA^ 



REPORT 



COMMISSIONEES 



APPOINTED TO INYESTIGATE THE CAUSE AND 
MANAGEMENT 



THE GREAT EIRE IN BOSTON. 




BOSTON: J 

ROCK^VELL «fc CHURCHILL, CITY PRINTERS, 
123 Washington Strekt, 

1873. 



.yi^ 



-J 



^1^^ 



CITY OF BOSTO:Nr. 



In Board of Aldermen, Nov. 15, 1872. 

Ordered, That His Honor the Mayor be requested to appoint a 
scientific commission, consisting of five persons, to investigate the 
cause of the recent fire and the efibrts made for its suppression, 
and report to the City Council in print; the expense attending 
such investigation to be charged to the appropriation for Inci- 
dentals. 

Passed in Common Council. Came up for concurrence. Read 
and concurred. Approved by the Mayor, November 15, 1872. 

A true copy. 

Attest: S. F. McCLEARY, 

City Clerk. 






9^}' 



EEPORT OF THE FIEE COMMISSION. 



oXXo 



To THE Honorable the City Council : — 

The Commissioners appointed to investigate the cause of the re- 
cent fire, and the efforts made for its suppression, respectfully 
submit their Report. 

The fact is painfully familiar, that on the 9th of November last, 
on a calm and mild evening, a fire broke out in the building num- 
bered 83 and 85 Summer Street, and raged without control till the 
afternoon of the following day, spreading through the best business 
portions of Boston, covering sixty-five acres with ruins, destroying 
776 buildings, assessed at the value of $13,500,000, and consuming 
merchandise and other personal property estimated at more than 
sixty millions of dollars. 

This Commission, appointed on November 26th, was organized 
on the next day, and entered at once upon its duties. We have 
held forty-two sessions, and summoned about two hundred wit- 
nesses, including every one whose name was suggested, or of 
whom we could hear in any way, and giving public notice, inviting 
all, who had any facts to communicate.. Some of the witnesses 
failed to appear, and we had no power to compel their appear- 
ance ; nor could we insist upon having a reply to any question 
which the witness was reluctant to answer. Much of the testimony 
has been immaterial, irrelevant, and hearsay. But this was una- 
voidable, as our duty was, first, to make a thorough investigation, 
and, second, to satisfy the public that it was thorough. For the 
same reasons we have published a mass of testimony, some of 
which is of little value, preferring to let each witness tell his story 
to the community in his own way, rather than appear to suppress 
any material portion of the evidence. We regret that the time 
necessarily consumed in printing this testimony has so long delayed 
our report. 



IV REPORT. 



ORIGIN OF THE FIRE. 

It is conclusively proved that the fire began near the elevator in 
the rear of the basement of the building, and passed with great 
rapidity up the elevator to the upper stories. The positive testi- 
mony of the many witnesses who distinctly saw the fire in the 
basement first, and then saw it, in the language of one of them, 
" roaring up the elevator," is not controlled by the negative tes- 
timony of those who from their position ftuled to see the flames in 
the lower part of the building, or of those who did not see the 
fire at all until it had mounted to the upper stories and the roof. 
The condition of the floor, after the ruin, shows that it probably 
began near the ceiling. 

To the more important question how the fire began, no answer 
can be given. There is no evidence whatever criminating any of 
the occupants of the building, nor is there anything to show that 
it caught from the furnace or the boiler, except the fact that it be- 
gan in that portion of the building. And the condition of the 
boiler and its surroundings, after the fire and the excavations, as 
described by witnesses, and as observed by members of the Com- 
mission, seem to show that it did not take from the heating appa- 
ratus, unless it took from some flue. Of this there is no evidence. 

We would also say that there is no reason to believe that there 
was any incendiarism during the progress of the fire. The only 
witness who expressed his suspicion on this point adm.itted that 
showers of sparks were falling upon the building of Avhich he 
spoke ; and he did not know whether the windows were open or 
closed. 

Nor, during the ten days following the fire, was there one case 
of incendiarism in the city, notwithstanding the sensational reports 
prevailing at the time. Owing to the strict precautions taken, and 
especially to the closing of the liquor saloons, the city was unusu- 
ally free from crime and disturbance during this period. 

The fire was first seen at 7.08 or 7.10 P. M. The first alarm 
was given at 7.24. The second alarm was at 7.29, followed by 
alarms at 7.34, 7.45, and at 8 P. M. When first seen, the fire 
had made great headway, and yet there was a disastrous and 
strange delay of quarter of an hour in giving the alarm. We 



REPORT. V 

would call especial attention to the evidence of Messrs. Sargent 
and Brown, policemen of Charlestown, who saw the fire from 
Prison Point Bridge. We refer to their testimony, because they 
fix the time by a clock, and by a depot clock, which may well be 
supposed to have been accurate. 

Their statement is, in general, confirmed by many persons pres- 
ent in Summer and Kingston Streets, and it leaves no doubt that, 
for fifteen minutes after tl\e fire had become visible, even in a neigh- 
boring city, no steps were taken to call out the Fire Department 
of Boston, 

Yet there is no evidence of fault on the part of our police. 
Each man in the neighborhood was on his beat, and engaged in 
the discharge of his duty. At ten minutes before seven an ofiicer 
had passed the building, and observed nothing. Several of them, 
on seeing the fire, started at once ; and officer Page, happening to 
stand by a box, when he saw it, lost not a second in sounding the 
alarm. 

The rear of the building where the fire began was on an alley, 
not frequented, and not likely to be observed. It is, of course, 
always a matter of chance how soon an officer shall see a fire in 
any portion of his beat. The probability of seeing it early would 
be increased, if there were more officers and less extensive beats. 

It is a remarkable fact that so little was done by the neighbors 
and bystanders towards giving the alarm. Some of them testify 
that they were criticising the Fire Department, and wondering at 
their delay, while they, themselves, were neglecting to take the 
only means for calling them out. In this connection, we shall 
inquire, in another portion of our report, whether the city does 
not need more fire-boxes, freer access to them by the citizens, and 
a more general knowledge as to the places where keys are depos- 
ited. The annoyance of an occasional fjilse alarm is not to be 
weighed against the dangers of delay. 

The rapid spread of the fire in the building first consumed was 
chiefly owing to this delay, and to the faultj^ construction of the 
elevator, which, like most other elevators in Boston, was sheathed 
with wood, and destitute of self-closing hatchways. If the pro- 
prietors of the building had procured automatic hatchways, such 
as are generally used in factories, and one of which was in use in 
a neighbor's warehouse, our city would probably have escape 



VI REPORT. 

this calamity, as the fire would not have reached the roof before 
the engines arrived. 

DANGEROUS ARCHITECTURE. 

The uncontrolled spread of the conflagration from the first 
building through the great district swept by the flames, was prin- 
cipally owing to the delay of the apparatus in arriving, and to the 
general faulty construction of the buildings, and especially to the 
exposure of timber to the flames at a height which could not be 
reached by water, — an exposure which would deserve condem- 
nation, even at a lower level. The dangers arising from this 
mode of building were greatly aggravated by the narrowness of 
the streets, and by the great height of the buildings. 

This danger had been foreseen, and our calamity had been fore- 
told both here and abroad. There is sad interest in the statements 
of our State Insurance Commissioner, who tells us that just before 
the fire, English underwriters spoke to him, at Liverpool and Lon- 
don, of the probable fate of Franklin Street, Winthrop Square, 
and their surroundings, and proposed to cancel their policies, and 
to cease insuring in our city. While some of us were justly 
priding ourselves on the elegant architecture of this district, and 
boasting that it was practically fire-proof, English insurers were 
dreading a conflagration on this very spot, and preparing to with- 
draw their agencies from our city. 

These dangers had been brought to the attention of the public, 
and of our municipal authorities. The remarkable Avarning of 
Mr. Joseph Bird was given through the press in November, 1871. 
The members of the Fire Department protested in vain against 
the style of building ; and the Chief Engineer, especially, de- 
clared, after the Chicago fire, that a similar disaster might occur 
in our own city, and on this very spot. It was plain to him and 
his associates that our style of building required larger provision 
for the extinction of fire than we had made. 

With this knowledge, the department should have taken all 
possible precautions, so that every fire might be met at the earliest 
moment. Seeing that our only salvation lay in confining every 
fire to the building where it began, no time should have been lost 
by the department in bringing all its available force to the scene 
of each fire. 



REPORT. VU 



DELAY FROM WANT OF HOBSES. 
' Unfortunately this was not done. During the prevalence of the 
horse distemper, the department relied upon hand-power to bring 
up the apparatus ; and this error was one great cause of the ter- 
rible calamity that befell us on November ninth. It is no less our 
duty to censure this error, because rumor has greatly exaggerated 
the delays caused by itw We know that many witnesses of the 
fire confounded the time that elapsed before the alarm with the 
time that elapsed after the alarm and before the arrival of the 
apparatus ; and many added these two periods together in making 
up their charge against the department. We know that there is 
some difficulty in using untried horses in drawing steamers, but it 
was a difficulty which could be overcome, which has been over- 
come in other cases, and was overcome in some instances on that 
very night. The testimony shows that volunteers were enrolled in 
order to facilitate the arrival of engines, and that an order had 
been given to the police, designed to secure a more prompt alarm 
during the prevalence of the disease. We admit also that the 
difi'erence of speed between horse-power and hand-power is less 
than the general public suppose. But, with all these reasons for 
mitio-atino- censure, the great fact remains ; time was invaluable, 
and time was lost. 

The first piece of apparatus. Hose 2, came as soon as it could 
have come by horse-power. So did the first engine. No. 7. 
These were from the immediate vicinity. Engine 15 came as 
fast as it could have come by horse-power. Three engines were 
drawn by horses. But all the other Boston apparatus was delayed 
from three or five minutes for the nearest, to forty minutes for 
the most distant. No one can tell what was the cost of these 
minutes to our city. 

It will not be supposed that the horses were dispensed with 
from motives of humanity. It is not denied by any one, however 
humane, that man has a right to overwork a beast in case of 
necessity, or to work a beast to death, if the need be sufficiently 
great. The horses of the department were not used, because 
they were generally unfit to be used, and could not have gone as 
fast as the men did. Excepting, perhaps, a few that were con- 



VIU REPORT. 

valesceut, and excepting a few that were employed, they were 
rightly left in the stable or the hospital. The fatal error lay in not 
having supplied their places with others able to do the- 
work. The evidence shows that at that time the disease had 
greatly abated ; that horses were freely used on the omnibus and 
horse-railroad lines, and were in general use in the city, and 
before this time might readily have been obtained for the use of 
the Fire Department. There is no evidence that this occurred to 
any one, but it ought to have occurred to those whose especial duty 
it was to guard the community from the perils of fire. 

The ftict that there was loss of time appears from the table of 
time (approximate) made by each piece of apparatus, printed in 
Appendix, and from the testimony of the officers who were all 
examined on this point. It is the testimony of honest and heroic 
men, whose desires and feelings and prejudices would all lead 
them to uphold their department, and to protect their Chief, but 
who state facts as they occurred. 

We cannot but feel that the earlier arrival of aid, between 7.30 
and 8 P.M., might perhaps have prevented the flames from crossing 
from Summer to Otis Street, both by throwing streams on the 
northerly side of Summer street, and by reducing the heat on the 
southerly side, Avhich prevented such streams from being thrown 
on the opposite buildings. This was the "key of the fire" at its 
outset ; and when it was lost, the flames became almost uncon- 
trollable. But even then, a larger force might, possibly, have 
checked the fire before it had crossed Franklin street. Whether 
the employment of horses would alone have achieved success at 
either of these points, it is impossible to form a definite opinion. 

WANT OF WATER IN THE BURNT DISTRICT. 

The efibrts of the firemen were greatly impeded by the want of 
water, especially in Summer street. The demands of the Chief 
Engineer for larger mains, for more hydrants, and for the more 
efficient Lowry hydrant, had been unsuccessful. He had es- 
pecially called attention to the exposed condition of this district ; 
and his forebodings were fully realized. The insufficient supply 
of water was felt at the outset, and was, without doubt, one cause 
of the conflagration. 



REPORT. IX 



WANT OF FUEL. 

There is proof that some of the engines early on the ground 
were not properly supplied with coal ; but there is no proof that 
there was any loss of power from that cause, at that time of the 
evening. The place of coal was filled by broken boxes and by 
other wood ; and although this is not the proper fuel for our fire 
eno^ines, it does make steam as quickly as coal. Later in the 
night, when the fire had gained proportions altogether beyond the 
preparations made by the department, there was, in some cases, an 
entire lack of fuel. In one case it was reported that an engine 
had come upon the ground early in the night without fuel, but 
this was proved by overwhelming evidence to have been a mis- 
take of the witnesses. 

THE FIRE DEPARTMENT. 

The engines were generally in good order, and they continued 
to be so throughout the fire ; the hose was generally excellent. 
Some difficulty arose in coupling, as the hydrant-couj)lings of dif- 
ferent towns differ in size. This is not strange, and can only be 
remedied by a general law ; but it does seem strange that Boston 
hydrant-couplings differ from each other, being of two sizes. Some 
of the Commission were surprised to learn that we have no engine 
of the largest size in Boston. We need larger steamers, and in the 
city proper we need a larger number. In the city proper we have but 
six engines. There are the same number in Ward 16. The as- 
sessed value of the property of the city proper is $514,697,450.00. 
The assessed value of property taxed in Ward 16 is $31,395,300.00. 

In the most important element of a Fire Department — in its 
men — Boston has the best material. Words fail to describe the 
courage and devotion of our firemen. No battle-field ever wit- 
nessed nobler heroism than was seen in our streets. The story of 
the fire, as told simply and truthfully by the engineers, is a story 
of hardships endured and dangers braved in obedience to duty. 
More than one of our firemen has literallj^ proved " faithful unto 
death." .We know that the whole community join in the praise 
recently bestowed by our Mayor on the members of the depart- 
ment, and in the thankg which he renders to the authorities and 



X REPORT. 

citizens of other places, far and near, who so promptly furnished 
aid in our time of need. 

The successful resistance of the firemen on the southern boun- 
dary of the district, and again in preventing the fire from crossing 
Washington Street, and finally on the northern line, when it was 
conquered, has left in the scorched and half-burned buildings now 
standing indisputable proofs of their great service. 

THE CHIEF ENGINEER. 

The Chief Engineer deserves all praise for his courage. He 
shrank from no exertion, and from no danger. Indeed, he some- 
times exposed his life when it ought not to have been risked. He 
manifestly intended to do all that he could to subdue the flames. 
He is described as being cool, and, with perhaps one exception, as 
master of himself, of his temper, and of his faculties. But while 
seeing this, and while admiring his many good qualities, we can- 
not fail to see that there was a want of preparation for so great 
an emergency, a want of system when the emergency came, and 
especially the want of a leader capable of grasping the details of a 
great plan adapted to the terrible occasion. The fire was attacked 
piecemeal, as chances occurred. The heroism of individuals was 
too often wasted, because it was not directed by a master-mind. 

The Chief seems to have performed the duties of a fireman from 
time to time, now placing a ladder, now performing some act of hu- 
manity, now applying fire to a mine. In a word, he tried to unite 
the services of a private with those of a commander-in-chief. It 
seems to us that, at such a time, the Head of the Force should re- 
main for the most part in some accessible place where he could 
command a view of the conflagration — a place known to his subor- 
dinates, where he could receive reports from them, and send them 
his orders. This would prevent much confusion ; and orders would 
be issued more wisely and carried out more efiectually than when 
the Chief is actually engaged in fighting the fire from place to 
place. For example, when aid from abroad was telegraphed for, 
the Superintendents of Railroads were not generally informed of 
this, nor were they requested to "give the track" to the coming 
engines. This necessarily delayed the coming of the desired aid. 
It is not strange that this did not occur to one who was risking his 



EEPORT. XI 

life in actual warfare with the flames. It would have occurred to 
one who was directing the contest, as a commander directs an 
array. 

Again : Mr. Damrell gave an excellent order to the Deputy 
Chief of Police, that a hundred officers should be detailed to com- 
bat the fire with wet carpets, or other woollen febrics. This order 
was wholly ineffectual, because there were no men who could be so 
detailed. But there werathousands of good citizens in the streets — 
louging to be of some service — who would gladly have performed 
this duty under proper leaders. These would have been found if the 
Chief had allowed himself leisure to superintend the whole work, 
instead of spending his time and power in attending personally to 
details. For the same reason, there was great lack of attention to 
the reception and disposition of engines from other towns. They 
were, no doubt, desirous of being directed by our Chief; and the 
law gave him nearly absolute power over all persons present. This 
power was by no means fully exercised. 

Great complaint has been made, that hose were uot in more in- 
stances carried to the roofs, or upper stories of buildings, where 
water could be more eflectually used. It is replied, that this was 
done more frequently than is supposed. For instance, at the cor- 
ner of Otis and Summer Streets, where it has been said that no 
hose was carried up, it was done, bravely, and, for a time, with 
good prospects of success. It is further said, that the great heat 
made it unsafe, and often impossible, so to use the hose. When 
this is said by brave and skilful firemen, no member of the Com- 
mission can deny it ; and the most critical of the witnesses admit 
that they may have erred in preferring their judgment on such a 
point to the opinion of veterans. It is certain that this desirable 
way of applying water was rendered much more dangerous and 
difficult by the absence of fire-escapes on the buildings, which 
would have provided a way of retreat, and which would, there- 
fore, have given confidence to the firemen. 

It is said, also, that great quantities of water were wasted by be- 
ing thrown inefiectually against closed windows and granite fronts 
at the second and third stories, while the upper stories of the build- 
ing were consumed by the flames, and reached by no streams. 
This, undoubtedly, did occur, both early in the fire and afterward. 



Xll REPORT. 

when, from causes just mentioned, the roofs could not be reached 
by the men, who still desired to make some use, however slight, 
of the water and of the apparatus. A more thorough supervision 
of these men would have employed them and the engines in some 
better service. 

Ill feeling must often arise at large fires from suspicion that favor 
is shown in directing the efforts of firemen. The commission have 
carefully examined one such charge ; and we find that the Chief 
Engineer acted with great discretion in withdrawing a stream of 
water from a house which probably could not have been saved, and in 
ordering it to be used in Oliver Street, where, with the aid of other 
streams, and by personal efforts by the occupants of the buildings, 
the lower side of Oliver Street was saved from destruction, and the 
fire was prevented from spreading to the varnish, oil, and paint 
stores in the rear. 

EFFORTS OF CITIZENS TO SAVE THEIR OWN 
BUILDINGS. 

The occupants of some of these buildings on Oliver Street have 
been summoned by the Commission, and have told their story mod- 
estly. Enough appears to show that they fought back the fire by 
their personal exertions, and put heart into the firemen by their ex- 
ample. If the flames had passed this point, it is difficult to say 
where they could have been stayed. Thus a great service was ren- 
dered to the public. Like remarks apply to the owner and occupants 
of the store of Messrs. Hovey & Co., on Summer street. The story 
of their co-operation with the firemen, both at the great fire and at 
the renewal of that fire on Monday morning, deserves to be care- 
fully read and remembered. The same building had been saved 
by like means, on a former occasion, — when the Adelphi Theatre 
was burned. It now stands a monument to the value of substantial 
construction, and to the worth of energy, of common sense and of 
hopeful courage. 

Mr. Freelaud also rendered invaluable service by directing the 
efforts of the firemen on the City Exchange. The occupants of 
the buildings on the west side of Washington street were equally 
efficient in protecting their buildings with wet cloths and carpets. 
Similar efforts on the part of others would have saved much prop- 



REPORT. Xm 

erty from destruction. It was one misfortune of the night that 
owners and occupants were generally absent, and therefore the 
firemen were unable to obtain information as to gas, water, the 
construction of buildings, and other important particulars. 

The conduct of the gentlemen to whom we have referred as 
aiding the firemen by their personal exertions, was in marked con- 
trast with the thoughtlessness of many spectators who crowded 
the streets, and greatly iqipeded the efibrts of the department. In 
some cases violence was necessarily used toward these persons. 
Yet, many of them would have gladly joined in efforts to save prop- 
erty, if more well-directed efforts had been made to that end. 

We have received, and are compelled to publish, some evidence 
of misconduct by a few firemen, and by men who wore the badges 
of firemen. The instances were rare. We are glad to believe that 
much of the wrong-doing was by men who falsely represented 
themselves as belonging to the honorable body of firemen. And 
we feel bound to condemn the grave mistake of those who gave 
away their stocks of goods when it was impossible to save them. 
The motive was amiable, but the practice tended to demoralize 
firemen and other citizens, to encourage theft by confounding 
thieves with honest men, and to bring about a time of plunder and 
confusion. 

POLICE AND 3IIL1TARY, 

This was one of the greatest troubles with which the police 
were obliged to contend, as it became impossible for them to dis- 
tinguish the guilty from the innocent. The conduct of th^ police 
officers was exemplary, and their services, considering their lim- 
ited number, were very efficient. They were reinforced by the 
Marines from Charlestown Navy Yard ; by regular soldiers from 
the forts, and by the Volunteer Militia of the State. Thanks are 
due, and thanks have been rendered to those bodies, for their 
effective aid. At every great fire in a large city, military assist- 
ance in preserving order has become a recognized necessity. For- 
tunately, we have in our Volunteer Militia an armed police, of 
whose aid no citizen need be jealous. It is desirable that some 
signal should be fixed, by which in like emergencies, or in any 
emeBgeucy, they may be called into immediate service. 



XIV REPORT. 



DANGERS FROM GAS. 

The fire, like all great city conflagrations, was greatly aggra- 
vated by the escape of gas from the burning buildings. The fall 
of heavy warehouses broke the main pipes, arid on Monday morn- 
ing, the escaped gas in the sewers exploded, and Caused another 
fire, which destroyed a million of property, and cost two lives. 
The ofiicers of the Gas Company believed that their water-valves 
were sufficiently powerful to cut off the supply of gas, as they 
had proved to be hitherto, but found that the belief was an error. 

The lack of valves properly constructed, and so placed as to 
isolate the burnt district, led to terrible loss, exposed us to the 
inconvenience and peril of total darkness during two nights, and 
endangered the whole city. The company have undertaken to re- 
pair this error by providing sliding-valves. The risk arising from 
the impossibility of isolating a burning district should never be 
incurred again. 

GUNPOWDER. 

The peril from the combustion of gas was increased by the man- 
ner of using gunpowder. And this is only one of many dangers 
incurred by the unscientific use of explosives. 

The law governing the demolition of buildings by gunpowder, or 
otherwise, during a fire, is fixed by the statutes of the Common- 
wealth, and has been explained in several decisions. The power 
is given to three firewards, and in their absence, to other civil or 
military officers. In Boston, the power of firewards is given by 
statute to the Engineers ; and the City Ordinance provides, that if 
the Chief is present, he must be one of the three Engineers con- 
senting to the demolition of a building. When three firewards, or 
in Boston three Engineers, are present, no one else has by statute 
the right to destroy a building, in order to stay a fire. One fire- 
ward has no more right to do this than any other person, even when 
it is impossible, by reason of the fire, for three to be present ; nor 
has one fireward a right to act, even when the Board has voted to 
grant the power to one, in case of an exigency. It is not enough, 
that three firewards concur that gunpowder must be used in gen- 
eral. No building can be destroyed, until it has been specially 



REPORT. XV 

adjudged by the three there present, that the particular building 
must be destroyed. As the power to select a building for destruc- 
tion cannot be delegated to one fire ward, of course it cannot be 
delegated to any other person. It is necessary to state the 
law so far, in order to appreciate the action of various parties at 
this fire. For this reason we give in the appendix a statement of 
the laws and of the decisions in this Commonwealth. 

The common-law right^ which exists independently of legisla- 
tion, and which prevails everywhere, to destroy a structure, in 
order to suppress a fire, is not taken away or superseded by the 
statutes of this state. 

There is a conflict of testimony as to the balance of good or evil 
arising from the use of gunpowder on November 9 and 10. It is 
less necessary to strike that balance accurately, because all wit- 
nesses agree, and all sane people will agree, that explosives never 
should be used again, as they were at that time, and that, if used 
at all, we should be prepared to employ them skilfully, carefull}'', 
and by a fixed plan. We have no word of censure for the citizens 
who volunteered to risk their lives in brave and energetic attempts 
to save the city. But they will all admit that the only justification 
for employing powder, as it was employed, is the fact that no 
proper provision had been made for the use of explosives ; and 
they will concur with us, that the greatest wonder of that night 
was, that no life was lost, and no personal injury was incurred from 
the use of gunpowder. 

The Chief and his associates did not believe in explosives. They 
had studied the matter to some extent, and generally agree in con- 
demning this method of attempting to check fires. This is one 
reason why no preparation had been made by storing a magazine, 
nor by providing means for confining powder when used, nor by 
drilling persons for its use. We were left to the chances of 
obtaining an inadequate supply at the shops, or of sending to a 
distant magazine, or of taking it from the powder boats. We 
were, also, left to the chances of finding skill and discretion to 
apply this dangerous remedy. Yet history had told us that gun- 
powder had often been used with good effect in staying great con- 
flagrations. The story of the Fire in London was in the books of 
children. After the great Boston fire in 1678, the town was 



XVI REPORT. 

divided into four districts, each of which was provided with four 
barrels of gunpowder for use in case of fire. And in our own day 
tlie town of Nantucket had been saved from destruction, by the 
foresight and courage of one man, who prepared in advance to use 
gunpowder in the day of need, and who dared to use it when the 
day came. 

When it was at last decided to use powder, it was done by the 
Chief Engineer giving written authority to several public-spirited 
gentlemen to remove goods and demolish buildings. Some slight 
attempt at organization was made, but no proper system of 
iaction was devised ; and in a short time the different parties were 
in confusion and at variance. Instead of three Engineers designat- 
ing the buildings to be demolished, each man was left to act as 
he pleased. The Chief Engineer now heartily condemns his error 
in this respect, and we agree with him. It is evident that he was 
still unconvinced of the wisdom of using powder, and that he yielded 
to the pressing demands made by many of our best citizens. 

The course actually pursued was objectionable, not because it was 
illegal, but because it was dangerous and inefficient. The action of 
the parties was not such as is provided by statute, nor such as is 
necessary to make the city liable for the property destroyed. But 
it by no means follows that it was unlawful. The courts of our own 
state and country, and of other states and countries have always held 
that, in case of necessity, it is lawful to demolish buildings, in order 
to stay the spread of a fire. And in our own state it has been dis- 
tinctly declared that this right is not taken away by the statutes 
regulating Fire Departments. It was impossible to obtain the 
adjudication of three engineers, including the Chief, on each build- 
ing selected for demolition. The assistant engineers could not be 
constantly withdrawn from their other duties without great injury 
to their work, nor was it possible for the Chief to be present at 
each building proposed to be destroyed. But it is to be deeply 
regretted that there was not a more thorough organization of the 
parties engaged in this service. 

The dangers of using gunpowder at a fire hardly need to be- 
stated. 

It demolishes the gas pipes, and thus creates a fierce fire when 
the gas is not shut off; it tends to scatter the flames ; it drives 



REPORT. XVll 

back and discourages the firemen; and, above all, it causes long 
delay in attempting to quench a fire, when delay is ruinous. Added 
to this is the danger of premature and accidental explosions, es- 
pecially when powder is carried in open kegs, as it was, at least in 
one case, at our fire. 

RECOMMENDATIONS. 

Dangerous as explosivee are, they must sometimes be used, and 
we suggest, as our first recommendation, that preparation be made 
for the future, for using a far more powerful and less dangerous 
explosive, and for training a number of men to use it skilfully. 
The best explosive now known for this purpose is Dynamite, 
sometimes known as Giant Powder. It is ten times as powerful as 
gunpowder. Its force as an explosive is so directed as to bring 
down a building, rather than to scatter its materials. It does not, 
of itself, kindle any fire when exploded, nor does it explode when 
brought into contact with fire. It may be dropped, or jarred in 
any way without danger ; and cartridges containing it may be 
safely cut or broken ; so that it is free from the peculiar perils 
that attend the use of other explosives, and especially of gun- 
powder. It may be safely stored and conveyed to the midst of a 
fire. Some better article may be furnished by science ; but, at 
present, this is clearly the best known material for the purpose 
under consideration. 

A quantity of this material should be kept constantly in proper 
places. 

A portion of the force belonging to the Fire Department 
should be instructed in the use of it, and especially in.» the 
proper manner of using it at fires. These men might do other 
and ordinary work in the department ; for it probably will not 
be thought expedient to keep a body of men exclusively for a 
service which may not be required for many years, and which we 
hope will never be required. They would act, of course, under 
the orders of the Chief Engineer, and the Chief, with some, or all 
of his assistants, should be trained in the use of explosives. 

It seems to us that the law on this subject needs careful 
revision ; and if general legislation is not desired, that a special 
Act should regulate the demolition of buildings in Boston in cases 
of fire, so as to secure more prompt action. 



XVlll REPORT. 

MORE ENGINES. 
We need more fire apparatus, more men, and more powerful 
engines. It wonld probably be wise to procure a few larger 
steamers, and reserve them for great emergencies, as the lighter 
ones are more easily handled. We gladly record the construction 
of a powerful fire boat ; and one member of the Commission has wit- 
nessed its successfnl use. The feasibility of using a self-propelling 
engine with advantage in our streets perhaps needs to be tested 
further. In this connection we call attention to Richard's Hose 
Elevator and Fire Escape, a sample of which isSiow attached to tiie 
Lawrence building, at West street. The new engines, or some of 
them, should be jjUiced in the large districts still exposed and 
unprotected. 

WATER SUPPLY. 

The city needs a better distribution of water, especially in the 
burned district. The six-inch pipe in Summer street was entirely 
inadequate to the needs of a street, which has changed its character, 
from a place of private dwellings to a street of great warehouses. 
Nor is this the only district where such a need exists. 

We also want more hydrants, and hydrants better adapted to the 
use of firemen. The Lowry hydrant, which is used in the ueigh- 
boring towns, in the Highlands, in Ward 1(), and in East Boston, 
is quite as necessary in the city proper. The evidence shows that 
while it is less liable to freeze than our hydrant, it will furnish 
four engines with two streams each. Such was the operation of 
the Lowry hydrant which was tried for a short time in Winthrop 
Square, in 1862, and its success then led to its .ado])tion by 
Charlestown. This style of hydrant is attached to the main pipe, 
while ours are attached to four-inch branch pipes. It gives five 
times the supply of the Boston hydrant, which was fit only for 
the hand engines. Abundant evidence has long shown that little 
or no trouble arises from the use of these hydrants during the 
season of snow, or at any time. 

3ns CELL ANE US. 

The supply of fuel for the steamers should be moi-e method- 
ical. A want of system prevails as to the duty of shutting oif 



REPORT. XIX 

the water at the reservoirs, and this leads to waste. This duty 
should be provided for by a fixed rule. The overflow from the 
reservoir should uot be allowed to pass into the sewers. If it 
flowed into the street, the water would be made visible. 

Bridges are needed for the protection of hose. We have 
already called attention to the need of more fire-boxes, and to the 
question whether they should not be made more accessible. The , 
Mayor has recommended Jthat the police force should be enlarged. 
We heartily indorse the recommendation, with a view to security 
from tire, while the increase is needed for other purposes as well. 
The police is our chief reliance for giving early alarms. 

The Chief Engineer suggests that a large fire-bell be placed on 
the City Hall, to supersede the various bells in the city proper 
which now give the alarm, with the idea that one bell would give 
it more clearly. We commend the suggestion to your considera- 
tion. 

We call attention to an extract from a letter of Prof. Tyndall, 
as to Res]jirators, which we are permitted to print in the Appendix. 

It seems to us that the Committee on the Fire Department 
should have a wider jurisdiction, including all means of subduing 
and preventing fires. At present, another committee has charge 
of the location and construction of engine houses ; a third com- 
mittee t'd^es charge of fire alarms, while a distinct department 
places or removes the hydrants. Thus, the means of extinguish- 
ing fires are parcelled out among four bodies of ofiicials. Unity 
of action, rather than division of labor, would seem desirable in 
this matter. We would, also, respectfully* suggest, that if the 
Engineers were nominated by the Mayor and confirmed by the 
City Council, it would be one step toward the establishment of a 
more responsible rule than we now have. The appointment of a 
competent Fire Inspector appears to be desirable. 

THE BUILDING ACT. 

The Building Act passed at the extra session of the Legislature 
seems to us to need careful revision, aided by the testimony of skil- 
ful architects. It is especially desirable that elevators in ware- 
houses should be forbidden, except such as are constructed with 
self-closing hatchways. Experience has shown that these can be 



XX REPORT. 

made with little cost, and used without any inconvenience. They 
are not only a safeguard against the spread of fire, l)ut they are of 
great value in preventing loss of life by accident. If the existing 
law relative to fire-escapes could be extended to all warehouses, 
or, better still, to all buildings of a certain size, it would tend to 
save life, and to encourage firemen in their work. It is well to 
consider whether every high warehouse ought not to have a per- 
manent stand-pipe of iron capable of having hose attached to it. 

GAS. 

Proper sliding valves should be placed on the gas-mains and 
distributing pipes as soon as possible, and the districts capable of 
being isolated by each valve should be small. The Gas Light 
Company will be obliged to replace all the gas mains in the burnt 
district, and expect to take this opportunity to supply a sufiicient 
number of valves. It would be well to have this, and other sim- 
ilar work, done under the supervision of some competent person 
in the interests of the city. The Fire Department should attend 
to the shutting ofi:' of gas more systematically and thoroiiglily than 
they now do ; or the Gas Company should be represented at every 
fire by one or more persons detailed for this service. 

• 

PORTABLE APPARATUS. 

We would earnestly recomniend the general use of Fire Ex- 
tinguishers and Hand Pumps in every building. These would 
prevent many fires frbm becoming serious, and they would inspire 
confidence in cases of alarm of fire. 

FINALLY. 

The Commission are unanimous in the opinion that His Honor 
Mayor Gaston intended to do his full duty, and labored faithfully 
to that end. But Messrs. Philbrick and Firth hold that he failed 
to give that guidance, unity and efiaciency to the efforts made to 
stay the fire, which the occasion required, and which the public 
had a right to expect from their Mayor. 

The majority had not supposed that a criticism of the Mayor, 
favorable or otherwise, was expected from a Commission appointed 



REPORT. XXI 



by the Mayor to consider the cause of the fire, and the efforts made 
to suppress it. One of their number is certain that he would not 
have been appointed as member of a Court of Inquiry on Mayor 
Gaston, and if appointed, he would not have served. 

We find no evidence that the Mayor failed of any duty in regard 
to the efforts for sujjpressiug the fire. That duty belonged to the 
Chief Engineer and his associates. They were not subordinate to 
the Mayor in this respect, but were by law his superiors. Nor 
does the Mayor have, officially, any especial knowledge as to fires, 
or the art of suppressing them. The increase of a fire to the pro- 
portions of a great conflagration, does not, by law, transfer the 
charge of its suppression from the skilled official to the unskilled, 
nor does it, in fact, confer experience upon him. We think the 
Mayor properly left the service of subduing the fire to those whose 
duty it was to perform it, and who were best qualified for the 
work. And, since it has become necessary to speak on the subject, 
we thank him for the coolness, intelligence and firmness which he 
displayed in the performance of his duties at a most trying time, 
and especially for the firmness with which he Avithstood the solici- 
tation of many eminent citizens, wdio, in the excitement of the 
moment, demanded of him an unlawful and disastrous course of 
action. 

We repeat our regret that the time required for printing the 
testimony has so long delayed the presentation of our report, 
and that we are now obliged to present it without the printed 
evidence. We regret, also, that it was impossible to arrange more 
conveniently the order of the witnesses. We heard them in such 
order as we could find them, and as it suited their convenience to 
attend. And their testimony was reported, and necessarily printed 
in the order in wiiich it was given. We have tried to deal with it 
fairly, and now submit to your honorable bodies the result of our 
careful consideration. 

THOMAS RUSSELL, 
CHARLES G. GREENE, 
SAMUEL C. COBB, 
A. EIRTH, ' 
E. S. PHILBRICK. 



XXll REPORT. 



APPENDIX A. 

SOME LAWS AND DECISIONS IN MASSACHUSETTS 
AS TO FIRES. 

The General Statutes, Chapter 24, Sees. 4, 5, 6, 7, are as follows : 

Sect. 4. The firewards, or any three of them, present at a 
place in immediate danger from a fire, and where no firewards are 
appointed, the Selectmen, or Mayor and Aldermen present, or in 
their absence, two or more of the civil officers present, or in their 
absence tAvo or more of the chief military officers of the place 
present, may direct any honse or building to be pulled down or 
demolished when the}^ judge the same to be uecessar}?- in order to 
prevent the siDreading of the fire. 

Sect. 5. If such pulling-down or demolishing of a house or 
building is the means of stopping the fire, or if the fire stops be- 
fore it comes to the same, the owner shall be entitled to recover a 
reasonable compensation from the city or town ; but when such 
building is that in which the fire first broke out, the owner shall 
receive no compensation. 

Sect. 6. Such firewards or other officers may, during the con- 
tinuance of a fire, require, assistance for extinguishing the same, 
and removing furniture, goods, or merchandise from a building on 
fire or in danger thereof; and may appoint guards to secure the 
same. They may also require assistance for pulling down or de- 
molishing any house or building, when they judge it necessary ; and 
may suppress all tumults and disorders at such fires. 

Sect. 7. They may direct the stations and operations of the 
engine-men with their engines, and of all other persons for the 
purpose of extinguishing the fire ; and whoever refuses or neglects 
to obey such orders shall forfeit for each offence a sum not ex- 
ceeding ten dollars. 

Act of 1850, Chapter 262, gives Boston power to establish a 
Fire Department ; and in Sect. 3 confers on the Engineers thereof 
the same power that was given by the Revised Statutes to fire- 



REPORT. XXIU 

wards. The General Statutes are on this point a re-enactment of 
the Revised Statutes. 

City Fire Ordinance, Sect. 11. " Whenever it is adjudged at 
any fire, bv any three or more of the Engineers present, of whom 
the Chief Engineer, if present, shall be one, to be necessary in or- 
der to prevent the further spreading of the fire to pull down or 
otherwise demolish any building, the same may be done by their 
joint order." 

The statute provision making compensation does not apply to a 
building which is pulled down after it is so far burnt that it is 
impossible to save it from destruction by fire. (Taylor vs. Ply- 
mouth, 8 Metcalf, 462.) 

In this case, page 465, Chief Justice Shaw says : "In order to 
charge the town, the remedy being given by statute, the case must 
clearly be brought within the statute. Independently of the 
statute,~-the pulling down of a building in a city or compact town 
in time of fire is justified upon the great doctrine of public safety, 
when it is necessary. (Mouse's case, 12 Coke, 63.)" 

In Cofiin vs. Nantucket, 5 Cushing, 269, it was held, that the 
town was not liable, where one fireward gave the order to demolish 
a building, under the supposed authority of a by-law delegating the 
power to one, in urgent cases. 

In Kuggles vs. Nantucket, 11 Cushing, 433, it was decided that 
in order to maintain an action against a town for property 
destroyed'to prevent the further spread of a fire, it must be shown 
by the owner of a house, that the destruction of his house was 
ordered by three fire wards, and not merely that they agreed gen- 
erally that some houses must be demolished, and that the plain- 
titf' s house was selected by one of them. " The plain intent of the 
statute is, that no house or building shall be demolished, unless it 
shall be judged necessary by three fire wards, or by other ofiicers 
authorized to act, in their absence, or where no firewards have 
been appointed." "They must determine upon the particular 
house or building, which they shall adjudge necessary to be 
destroyed." 

In Power vs. Pettengill, 11 Allen, 507, it is decided, that one 
fireward acting alone has no more authority than any other man 
to direct the destruction of a house, although it may be impossible 



XXIV REPORT. 

for the other firewards or officers named to get to the place when 
the occasion for their action arises. 

In this case, which grew out of the great fire in Gloucester, it 
was also held that the plaintiff could only recover the value of his 
property at the time of its destruction, taking into account the 
risk from the lire. 

In Metallic Compression Casting Company vs. Fitchburg Rail- 
road Company, argued with Middlesex cases, 1872, Chief Justice 
Chapman repeats the statement that the common-law right to use 
or destroy property to check a fire is not superseded by the 
statute on the subject. 

The duty of extinguishing fires and of keeping engines in repair 
and ready for use is imposed not upon towns or cities, but upon 
firewards, engineers and other officers, chosen either by the inhabi- 
tants or by the selectmen, or Mayor and Aldermen. (Fisher vs. 
Boston, 104 Allen, 87.) 

Insurance against loss or damage by fire covers a loss arising in 
part from explosion and in part from combustion of gunpowder 
on the premises. (Scripture vs. Lowell Mutual Fire Ins. Co., 10 
Cushing, 356.) 



EYIDENCE. 



ALEXANDER K. YOUNG, /Sworn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Where do you live? 

A. In Chelsea. 

Q. Of what store were you the occupant? 

A. I M'as the occupant of the third and fourth stories, and part of the 
fifth story of the building on Summer street, entrance No. 87. I was 
the lessee of the fifth story, and occupied a portion of it. 

Q. For what purpose did you occup}- it? 

A. The manufacture and sale of hoop-skirts and bustles, and the sale 
•of corsets ; not the manufacture of corsets. 

Q. How many persons did you employ? 

A. Usually, about two hundred and fifty. When we paid off, the 
last pay-day, we paid off one hundred and sixty hands — since the fire. 
Since the horse disease, the trade has dropped off some. 

Q. How many of those were employed on the premises ? 

A. About two hundred and thirty, probably ; two hundred and twenty- 
five or two hundred and thirty. 

Q. Any machinery on the premises? 

A. Nothing but sewing machines and eyelet presses, — such machin- 
ery as is used in the manufacture of hoop-skirts, operated by the foot ; 
nothing run by steam. 

Q. Was there any steam used in the building? 

A. There was ; for heating and hoisting. 

Q. Where was the steam engine? 

A. In the basement. 

Q. Directly under your premises ? 

A. Well, my premises covered the whole estate. It was in the base- 
ment of the same building. 

Q. Anything else in the basement? 

A. Well, yes, Tebbetts, Baldwin & Davis occupied it and tht; fir.st 
floor; and the}' hired, I should judge, about seven-eighths of the fifth 
floor, for storing, and used it for a packing-room for shipping. 
1 



Q. (By Mr. Firth.) What was their business? 

A. Dry goods and merchandise, wholesale. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) How much stock had 3'ou there? 

A. We have just returned our proof of loss to the insurance compa- 
nies, which amounts to $50,746.63. 

Q. Where were you insured ? 

A. I don't know, sir. I can give you the amount of insurance, — 
$17,600. 

Q. Do you know how the offices stand as to solvency ? 

A. My impression is that they are good, with the exception of one, 
■which offers eighty cents. The amount of that is $2,300. 

Q. When were you on the premises last before the fire? 

A. About half-past five o'clock on^that Saturday evening, as near 
as I can judge. It might have varied five minutes, one way or the other. 

Q. How many persons did you leave there ? 

A. I was the last, with two others ; I locked the store myself. 

Q. Who were the others? 

A. One was Patrick Cotter ; the other's name is Boyd K. Bullock, 
our bookkeeper ; and my wife — I forgot her. 

Q. Where does Cotter live ? 

A. In Charlestown. 

Q. Do you know his address ? 

A. No, sir, I don't. He is down at our temporary place at the pres- 
ent time. 

Q. Bullock, I suppose, is with you, of course? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Did Cotter lock the door ? 

A. I locked it myself, sir. 

Q. When did you first hear of the fire? 

A. I don't know what the hour was. I should judge it was after 
eight o'clock. I was visiting a friend. I was in the house of Capt. A. 
J. Hilborn, in Chelsea, — Mr. Klous's partner, the owner of the build- 
ing. 

Q. I suppose you know nothing about the cause of the fire? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. Any suspicions? 

A. Well, I have not had any suspicions of anybody. There were 
some circumstances whicli looked rather strange to me. The grounds 
of suspicion would be so very. slight that I should not like to volunteer 
to state them. I don't want to say that I suspect any one. 

Q. You have been burned out once or twice before? 

A. Never but once. 



Q. When was that? 

A. That was, I should judge, in 1864 — No. 65 Hanover street. 

Q. In the same business? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. What was suppdied to be the cause of that fire ? 

A. Well, if I remember correctly, there were some parties who had re- 
cently moved into the place below, who had been burned out several 
times before, and some people suspected them. They did not get their 
insurance. They had a very light stock. 

Q. Who were the}^ ? 

A. I don't remember. In fact, the whole thing had gone from my 
mind. Our insurance was very light — six thousand dollars. Our loss 
was considerably in excess of that. 

Q. Is that the only time? 

A. That is the only time. I was a member of a New York firm, that 
is, I had an interest in it, but gave no personal attention to it, and had 
been there but very seldom. They were the agents for the sale of Sam- 
uel Williston's spool thread. At the time they got burned out, the fire 
originated above them, in a hoop-skirt factor^', and damaged them with 
water. 

Q. That was in New York ? 

A. Yes, sir, on Chambers street. 

Q. You were never burned out in Boston at any other time than you 
have stated? 

A. There was a slight fire in Sudbury street, where the damage was 
about a hundred dollars. I didn't consider that of any account. I hire 
the building and sub-let it to mechanics. The engine belongs to me. 

Q. Did it take in your room? 

A. No, sir. I will give a statement of my progress. I went away at 
twelve o'clock to collect some rents from the tenants on Sudbury street, 
and went back and wrote some letters, and went downstairs and locked 
up. I did not go into the room upstairs, which I can prove by a great 
many witnesses. 

Q. Had there been any fire on your premises that day ? 

A. No, sir, nothing but gas in the counting-room ; we did not light 
up upstairs. 

Q. You know nothing about the origin of this fire? 

A. No, sir. There were steam pipes on the premises. 

Q. (By Mr. Guekne.) As I understand it, there was no fire in the 
apartments 3'ou occupied, save the gas light? 

A. Not to my knowledge. I was not there that afternoon. I made 
an attempt to go upstairs, but the young man said, " They have all gone 



4 

out," and I went out and locked the door. The reason whj^ I locked up, 
the two previous nights the book-keeper locked up and took the key, but 
over Sundays, my partner lequiies me to keep the key, and the man who 
has been in the habit of locking up lives close by me, — he is a carpenter, 
and was making some stalls in my stable, — and thCTbook-keeper locked up 
and took the key, except Saturday night, when I took it home with me. 
I went down with my wife to the stable to get my horse, and Capt. Hil- 
born came across the street and asked me to come to his house that 
evening ; we were talking about selecting a candidate for Mayor and ward 
officers. I told him I would, and Avent down directly to the stable and 
got my carriage and drove home, and met Mr. French, of Chelsea, going 
in the same direction, and soon after seven o'clock I got home, read 
the paper, got m}^ supper, and was in Capt. Hilborn's house, — it could not 
have been more than ten or fifteen minutes past seven, — with several 
other citizens of Chelsea. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) Was there any fire in the engine that had been 
used that da}^ ? 

A. I don't think that I have been in the engine room for more than a 
3^ear. That was in the basement. That belonged to the landlord. I 
have learned since that the engineer was in the habit of drawing out his 
fires Saturday nights ; other nights he banked them and kept them over, 
so as to have steam the next day. But that night he drew his fires, and 
stayed there until seven o'clock. 

Q. What is his name? 

A. I don't know that. 

Q. You had nothing to do with that? 

A. Nothing at all, except that I very often smelt liquor in his breath, 
and I did not like that in a man holding a responsible position. 

Q. (By Mr. Grkene.) Who employs that man? 

A. Mr. Daggett, agent for S. Klous. I don't think I was in the 
building an hour that afternoon. I came back and wrote three letters, 
had two of them copied, and locked up and went away. The first I 
heard, a carriage came to the door, and Mr. Hilborn informed me that 
our store was on fire. Five minutes before that, somebody said there 
was a great fire in Boston, at the corner of Summer and Bedford streets. 
I did not go out, but our overseer got a hack and came over after me, 
and I went back with her, and wiien I got there, CA'erything was in ashes, 
and the fire was in the vicinity of Winthrop Square. The first knowl- 
edge I had of the fire was when the overseer came. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) What is the name of your overseer? 

A. Kate McCanley. 

Q. She was the person who told you it was your store? 



A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Do you know where she lives? 

A. No. 11 Oak street ; but I understand she is stopping with her sister 
in Lynn, since the fire. 

Q. Have you heard anything about a cigar being thrown into the ele- 
vator, which it was supposed caused the fire ? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. (By Mr. Greene.) What is your idea about the origin of the fire? 

A. Well, mj' opinion is, that the engineer must have raked out liis 
fires, and the coals came into connection with some wood work. There 
was a wood partition close to the boiler. 

Q. That is, you think it commenced in the basement? 

A. Yes, sir, that is my opinion. 

Q. And went up the elevator ? 

A. Yes, sir, there was a draft going up the elevator ; there wouldn't 
be likely, to be one coming down. 

Q. Was not the fire first discovered coming from an upper room ? 

A. No, sir, it was not. Here is a list of persons who saw the fire 
when it first broke out : Mr. and Mrs. Chester D. Pratt ; Louisa P.Pratt ; 
Mr. and Mrs. Alonzo C. Pratt ; Mrs. Clara Pratt ; Mrs. Abby F. Pratt, 
residing at No. 17 Kingston street ; and Mr. and Mrs. Halsall, who have 
moved since the fire to No. 5 Cambridge street. I never saw either of 
them. Our Mr. Reed learned that they had seen the origin of the fire. 

Q. What is the man's name who fii'st saw the fire below ^ 

A. All these parties saw it from the house directly opposite. They 
were going out on some visit. Their house is not more than fifty or 
sixty feet from the building ; it may be a longer distance, but it is 
almost directly opposite this alley-way. These parties were going out, 
or this Mr. Halsall and wife were going out, on a visit, somewhere, and 
he carne down and was waiting for his wife, and saw the light and went 
over, called them, and they all went over, and looked at it, before there 
was any alarm given, and watched its progress. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) How long had j'ou been in that building? 

A. About five years. We had just taken another lease for three years 
longer. The five years would expire the first of January ; but I went 
in there before the first of January, I should think about a month. 

[IVIr. Young sent to the commission, the day following his examination, 
a letter, touching some points in regard to which he was unable to give 
the details when lie testified, from which the following extract is taken : — 

'• I take the liljerty to present a few facts for your consideration of which I shall take pleasure in 
giving you amjile proofs. 
In the first place our assets were at time of fire more than ten dollars to one of indebtedness. 



Secondly, our business was very profitable; our profits up to time of fire this year exceeded thirty 
thousand dollars. 

Thirdly, our books and accounts, all evidence of bills receivable, computed at about fifty thousand 
dollars, was placed in our safe by our bookkeeper, he as well as ourselves knowing that the safe was 
out of order and could not be locked ; we were well aware that in the event of a fire our books could 
not be saved, but we had no apprehension of a fire and took our chance b. 

Fourthly, our schedule of stock on hand, made out by the parties I this day send you, and sworn 
to by Mr. Loomis and myself, show a stock on hand exceeding fifty thousand dollars, on which the 
total amount of insui'ance was $17,600. 

Fiftllly, on or about October 20, 1872, insurance on the burned property, amounting to $2,320, ex- 
pired, .and on application for renewal of the same by Mr. Stoddard, of the firm of Brown, Pope & Co., 
I declined, against his remonstrances, to renew or increase our insurance on that property, and 
assigned reasons which he will give. 

Sixthly, we propose to pay our indebtedness as it matures, asking no favor of any, and demanding 
simple justice of all. Very respectfully yours, 

A. K. YOUNG." 

Subsequently, another communication was received from Mr. Young, 
in which he says : — 

" I would like to correct a statement made before your connnittee by myself, namely, that the fire 
on Hanover street did not occur on our premises. On inquiry, I learn that it did occurkin our place; 
but I had forgotten all about the afiair. That fire was the only one that ever occurred in premises 
occupied by me during my life, to my knowledge. The fire in New York occurred over the store 
and damaged the stock by smoke and water. The stock was the property of Samuel Williston, of 
East Hampton, Mass.. and insured on his behalf; the only interest of the firm of which I was 
partner — Howell, Colby & Co. — was a commission on sale's eti'ected, as they were the agents of 
Samuel Williston."] 

AUGUSTINE SANDERSON, Siwrn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Will 3'ou state what 3'ou know about the fire 
of November ninth ? 

A. The ninth of November (I recollect the time very distinctly, be- 
cause I was a little disappointed in the matter) I went up to Small's 
boot and shoe store, in Bromfield street, to get my boots, which were not 
done, and I left there between five and ten minutes past seven. 1 went 
straight down Bromfield street, and up Washington street as far as the 
corner of Winter street, and there 1 met Mr. John S. Holmes. No 
alarm had then been given of this fire; there was nobody halloing fire. 
I immediately started down Summer street, and halloed fire from the 
time I crossed Washington street, until I reached Kingston street. 
When I arrived at Kingston street, I should say there were not more 
than a dozen persons in Kingston street, and then the fire was coming 
out through the roof of the building occupied by Tebbetts, Bakl win «&; 
Davis ; there was no fire in the upper story. The first party 1 met there 
was a boy, and I a.sked him where the box Avas ; and he told me there 
was a box up on the corner of Bedford and Wasliington streets. I 
asked him why they had not given the alarm ; and he said he didn't 
know. In the mean time, a policeman came through Kingston street 



from Summer street, and I asked him why he did not give the alarm. 
He said that he had given the alarm. Said I, " There has no alarm 
been struck, not a sound ;" and said I, "Why don't you go and give 
the alarm?" Then he remarked tome that he had been at the box, 
and he could not get any answer. In the mean time, two other officers 
came through from Summer street into Kingston street, and I started 
those two officers and this other officer, and they started through King- 
ston street, into Summer, and down Summer street. The}^ were gone 
perhaps half a minute, asd in a minute or two after they got back, the 
alarm struck. 

Q. Who was the officer you first met? 

A. I don't know. Then the fire had crossed the passage-way in the 
rear of this building, and ignited the other building on the opposite 
side of the passage-way on Kingston street. I think all those buildings 
were on fire. The coving had caught fire on the buildings on the op- 
posite side of the passage-way on Kingston street. They were all on 
fire, I think, when the alarm was struck. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) Outside? 

A. Outside. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Wooden coving? 

A. Yes, sir. The fire seemed to be in the upper story of this build- 
ing occupied by Tebbetts, Baldwin & Davis, and burning furiously 
through the roof and through the skylights. I stayed in Kingston 
street until after the fire had come down and come out through the 
upper story and burst out through those windows, and was coming 
down into the next story below, before any fireman arrived there at all. 

Q. Did you see any fire in the lower stories, or basement? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. Have you any doubt you should have seen it, if there had been 
any? 

A. I think I should. I stood there until I thought it was dangerous 
standing there. 

Q. Did you fix your attention on the question whether the lower part 
of the building was on fire or not? 

A. I looked at the building, and the fire seemed to me to be, and 
always has seemed to me to be, in the upper stories of the building. I 
should say the first hose carriage came in ten minutes after I arrived 
there, drawn b}'^ hand. The next apparatus that came there was a hook 
and ladder company. That came in about five or six minutes after the 
hose carriage arrived. The next thing that came $»fter that, I should say, 
to the best of my knowledge and belief, was a steamer drawn by hand, 
which took the hydrant on the corner of Kingston and Summer streets. 



Q. How much of a team of men was there on it? 

A. I should say there might liave been on that one^perhaps twenty- 
five or thirty. 

Q. Men or boys ? 

A. Men and boys together. 

Q. Did they come up fast or slow? 

A. Well, they didn't come up very fast. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) Did you make any note of time? consult your 
watch at all ? 

A. I looked at my watch, and I should say, to the best of my knowl- 
edge and belief, if my watch was right, that the alarm was struck between 
a quarter and twenty minutes past seven. 

Q. (By Mr. Greene.) How long was it before any engine arrived? 

A. I should say it was twelve or fifteen minutes before any engine 
arrived there. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) How long was it from the time of the alarm 
before the first stream was thrown on the fire? 

A. I think that before the first stream that took upon that tire that I 
saw, it was good thirty minutes. 

Q. From the alarm ? 

A. From the time at which I arrived there, I should say it was thirty 
minutes. 

Q. How long was it from the time when the fire-alarm was given be- 
fore the stream struck it ? 

A. I should sa}^ it was from twenty to twenty-five minutes. 

Q. Do you know anything about a want of fuel ? 

A. I do not. I saw no want. I have heard people say that the fire 
was built of boxes. I did not see it, because I stayed there until I had 
my eye hurt, and then I went up to Mr. Tompkins' apothecary shop, and 
from there to Jordan & Marsh's building, and remained there until half- 
past seven o'clock. 

Q. Was the stream of water effective ? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. Did it hit the place where the fire was? 

A. No, sir. They placed a ladder against the block where Tebbetts, 
Baldwin & Davis's store was, but the ladder caught fire before they got 
any water up to it. 

Q. Did they take the hose up the ladder? 

A. They undertook to take it up, but the ladder caught fire. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) In regard to the alarm ; j^ou sciy j'ou went down 
to Summer street. How long do 3'ou think 3'ou were going down there? 



9 

A. I should not say I was more than five minutes from the time I left 
Bromfield street, until I was in Kingston street. 

Q. Did you hear no alarm ? 

A. I did not, I heard nobody halloing fire, or anything of the kind. 

Q. Was anything being done when you got there ? 

A. There was nobody there but strangers, nobody who had any au- 
thority, more than I had ; people simply standing there and seeing it 
burn. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) Were you there when the first engineer arrived? 

A. I was. 

Q. Who was it ? 

A. The first man I recognized was a brother-in-law or cousin of Al- 
derman Pope, Capt. Jacobs ; and I assisted Lieut. Childs in putting a 
rope from the corner of Kingston street across Summer street, to keep 
the crowd back. 

Q. Did the streams seem to have any eflfect? 

A. No, sir. The two streams, in my opinion, which they played from 
the opposite side of Summer street, did not seem to amount to anything. 
The building was all on fire, up to the coving, and the water did not 
reach beyond the second stor3^ 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) Did you notice the time of the arrival of the 
second engine? 

A. I did not. 

Q. Had it come in when you left ? 

A. Oh, yes, sir. It came up the other way ; I did not notice the time, 

Q. Do you speak of the time that elapsed between the alarm and the 
arrival of the first engine, from actual knowledge? 

A. Yes, sir, I do. There was another gentleman, who is in the As- 
sessors' department, who came after I got there, and stayed there after 
I went away, and saw the whole thing. That is Mr. Richardson. I told 
him then that they had got more of a fire than they could handle. We 
talked the thing over, and I made up my mind, the way they were going 
at it, they would never stop the fire in that block. I have had some 
conversation with Lieut. Childs (if you have not sent for him, I 
think it would be well to do so) on the point of carrying sti'eams into 
the stores in the block beyond the store that was on fire, and putting 
those streams on the roof. I think that would have been the most ettect- 
ual wa}^ of reaching that fire, because a stream would not reach it, or, if 
they got a stream up to it, it would spread, and the fire was so intense 
that it would evaporate, and have no effect at all. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) You thought the best way was to carry the 
stream on to the roof? 



10 

A. Yes, sir, and pour it down. You could reach the fire in no other 
way. I have been on the police four years and three months, and I have 
been to fires with the Boston Fire Department in years gone by, when a 
young man. 

Q. Were you a member ? 

A. No, sir, only a volunteer. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) How could the hose have been carried up on the 
roof? 

A. By going beyond. Suppose 3'ou could not get on top of the build- 
ing occupied by Tebbetts, Baldwin & Davis, by going two doors below, 
you could carr}' the hose on to the roof, and pour the water into the 
burning building. That was the way the fire in the State Street Block 
was controlled. I was at that fire. They carried the hose through the 
buildings, and got the water down upon the fire. 

Q- (By Mr. Cobb.) Did you see the Chief Engineer that evening? 

A. I saw the Chief when he came there. 

Q. About what time was that? 

A. He did not arrive there until after an engine had come, a hook- 
and-ladder company, and a hose-carriage. I saw him there just after 
they iiad all got there. The hook-and-ladder came up through the street 
directly opposite Kingston street, on Summer street. 

Q. Did you hear him give any orders? 

A. I did not. Lieut. Childs went and took a rope from the hook-and- 
ladder company, and I assisted him in putting it across the street, to 
keep the crowd back. 

JOHN M. PAGE, Sworn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) You are an oflScer of Station No. 4? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. "Will you state all you know about the fire of November 9th? 

A. Well, the most I know about it, I was the first oflScer to get to the 
box and give the alarm. 

Q. What was the first thing you knew about the fire? Where were 
you when you saw it ? 

A. Well, as near as I can place it, — I did not look at my watch, — 
I should call it not far from quarter-past seven. I was on Lincoln street, 
going towards Summer, and when I got up to the corner of Summer and 
Bedford, I saw the fire streaming up from the top of the building. I 
was right at the alarm box, and I stopped right there, opened the box, 
and gave the alarm. I did not go round to see what building was on 
fire, or what part of the building was on fire. 



11 



Q. When you give an alarm, do you know whether you have suc- 
ceeded ? Is there a response ? 

A. Yes, sir, there is a ticking in the box. I heard the ticking in the 
box. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) What was the number of this box ? 

A. No. 52. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) I suppose there were no circumstances which 
you noted that seemed suspicious? 

A. I did not see anything ©f the kind. From where I stood, I could 
not see the building that was on fire, because of some other high build- 
ings that interfered. 

Q. Do 3'ou know anything else about it? 

A. Nothing material that I know of. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) Did you hear anybody give any alarm? 

A. I heard boys halloing fire before I saw it. 

Q. Before you reached the box? 

A. Yes, sir. I stood right at the box until I had given the third 
alarm. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) What did you do then? 

A. I went up Bedford street, where the hose run through a yard 
where there were some old people living — old lady Foster and Capen. 
I went in and got on to their shed, and drove a lot of boys out of their 
yard, and I stayed there for an hour. 

Q. (By Mr. Fikth.) Who gave the second alarm ? 

A. idid. 

Q. How long after the first? 

A. Well, I couldn't hear the bells at all, there was so much confusion 
and noise, and there is no bell near there. I gave it when I thought the 
first alarm had had time to get through striking. 

Q. How long was that? 

A. Probably five minutes or eight minutes. 

Q. Then in regard to the third alarm ? 

A. I gave the third alarm when there was word brought to me by 
another officer from an engineer, to give the third alarm. 

Q. Then the third alarm was given by the order of some engineer ? 

A. Yes, sir. That is, I did not get the order direct from him ; it came 
through some other officer. 

Q. How long was that after the second ? 

A. I should not think it was more than ten minutes, probably. 

Q. (By Mr, Cobb.) You don't know what time the Fire Department 
got to the building? 

A. No, sir, I can't tell. I was not at the building until after the fire 



12 



was well under way. Finally, I was not round in front of the building 
for an hour. 

(Subsequently recalled.) 



CHARLES A. STEARNS, Sivorn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) On the ninth of November you were the officer 
on duty at the fire alarm, were you not? 

A. I was, sir. 

Q. Will you state what took place in regard to the alarm? 

A. Well, sir, I was sitting at the window which faces in the direction 
of Summer street, reading a newspaper. I looked up and saw a light ; 
got up out of my chair and looked for a few seconds, and my instru- 
ments to give an alarm of fire commenced giving the number. I had to 
walk across the room, perhaps twenty feet from where I sat. I took 
the number, read it on the paper twice, turned to my other instruments, 
and got ready as soon as possible to strike the bells. That was the 
first alarm, and after getting through with the first alarm, which was 
box 52, twice repeated, I waited, 1 can't say bow long, but only a 
short time, and another alarm came in. I struck the second alarm, and 
so on with the third and fourth alarms. The general alarm was tel- 
egraphed in by one of our men who goes to fires by order of the chief. 

Q. What was the time ? 

A. After I had taken the alarm, which takes, I judge, twent}'^ seconds, 
set my apparatus to strike, and had started the instruments to strike 
the bells. I then looked at the clock, and as near as I could judge 
it was twenty-four minutes past seven. The clock was at the farther 
end of the room, perhaps twenty-five feet off, but as near as I could 
see, it was twent^^-four minutes past seven. That was about the time 
the first blow was struck. 

Q. What does the second alarm mean ? 

A. It means ten blows from the same box. Instead of striking the 
same number of blows, they strike ten. 

Q. Does that give any additional force? 

A. Yes, sir. That the Fire Department regulates ; I know nothing 
about it. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) What time did you give the second alarm? ■ 

A. I could not swear from memory the time, but I recorded it imme- 
diately after striking, and it is recorded 7.29. The third alarm is re- 
corded 7.34 ; the fourth alarm, 7.45. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Was there any further alarm? 



13 



A. Yes, sir, a fifth alai'm. which is not an alai'm ; but we struck it at 
eight o'clock. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) What does that fourth alarm mean ? 

A. Three times twelve. First, the number of the box ; second, ten 
blows ; third, twelve blows, once repeated ; fourth, twelve blows, twice 
repeated, making three times twelve. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) What is the meaning of the fifth alarm? 

A. There is no such thing as the fifth alarm ; ever3'^thing is supposed 
to be at the fire, as I understand it, after the fourth alarm ; but then, it 
w^as a big fire, and we struck the bells again. We thought, if they 
wanted another alarm, we would keep striking. 

Q. (By Mr, Russell.) Do you know anything further about the 
matter ? 

A. No, sir ; I did not leave the room for twentj'-four hours. 

Q. (By Mr. Fieth.) Have you, in any other instances, sounded a 
fifth alarm? 

A. Yes, sir ; at the time of the great fire we had in East Boston, and 
quite a number of those large fires. We keep striking — fifth, sixth, 
seventh. It is nothing, except, perhaps, to call out-of-town engines. 

Q. That is usual ? 

A. It is usual to do so, when we have a great fire. 

CLARENCE A. DORR, Sworn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) You are a banker? 

A. Yes, sir, banker and broker. 

Q. On the ninth of November, where were you when you noticed the 
fire alarm? 

A. I was at the corner of Kingston and Summer streets when I 
noticed what I did notice. I did not expect a big fire. I left the Mer- 
chants' Exchange Reading Room at a quarter after seven, exactly, by 
their clock, and proceeded by the way of Washington street to the Old 
Colon}^ station, where I was to take the half-past seven train. I was 
accustomed to going there every day, back and forth, and generally 
allowed myself just about time enough to go there. When I got to the 
corner of Kingston and Summer streets, I looked to see if I had plenty 
of time to get there by the way of Kingston street, and it was exactly 
twenty-one minutes past seven by my watch, which I think was one 
minute fast by the clock inside the Old Colony station, which I believe 
they keep regulated by standard time. While I was looking at it, there 
was no one in the street, and I heard a big noise over my head. I 
looked up and 1 saw what seemed to be steam escaping ; and my first 



14 

impression was, that there was a printing-press there ; that there might 
be a newspaper office there, and it was accompanied by a noise very 
similar to that of a printing-press. In fact, the impression was very 
much as it is when passing by the "Post" building in Devonshire 
street ; if you look up, j^ou will see the steam escaping from the roof. 
That was exactly what it reminded me of, and I thought to myself 
whether there was a newspaper office there. "While I Avas looking, I 
looked up and down the street to see if any one was coming that I 
could say something to, and did not see a soul ; and while I stood there, 
which was perhaps ten or fifteen seconds in all, I saw it was accompa- 
nied by a little smoke. That immediately started my suspicions, and I 
ran to the back part of the building, — I did not observe any light in 
the front of the building, — as near as I could get to it ; there was 
an old-fashioned house between me and the building, — and I looked 
up, and there I saw the flames. I did not see any light in the lower 
part of the building at all ; I think I should have noticed it, if thei'e 
had been any there ; and I immediately made the remark to one or two 
that came running up, that the fire took in the upper story. That was 
the conclusion I immediately arrived at. By the way,^! did not speak 
of one other thing. On my way round there, after I first noticed it, 
there was no cry of fire, or any alarm in any shape or manner ; but 
when I was running round, I am sure I heard some children's voices, — 
it sounded like boys and girls, — crying fire. I did not hear a man's 
voice at all. Just at that stage of the proceedings, or when I got fairly 
round, I asked the people there if anybody was attending to the alarm, 
and they said yes, that was looked after ; and by that time the cry be- 
came general. The fire spread very rapidly, when it started, into the 
various rooms. I was looking at it, and listening very closely for the 
alarm, but did not hear it. Time went on, and the first alarm I heard, 
I looked at my watch, and it was exactly thirty minutes past seven. 
But I was assured by the people round there that it had been sounded 
before ; but I did not hear it. I think I should have noticed it, if it had 
been. I have been through that street very often, and very often at 
that time ; it is usual for me to go home al)out that time, and I think I 
should have noticed if there had been any light in the lower part of 
the building. A gentleman said to me afterwards that he thought it 
took beloAV ; and I told him I did not see how it could be so. I was 
rather anxious for a hose-carriage to arrive, and I did not see one arrive 
there until about the time I heard the alarm myself, which was the 
second alarm, I was told, that was sounded. I supposed it was the 
first alarm ; but since then I have heard others say that the alarm was 
sounded at an earlier stage of the proceedings. In regard to time, I 



15 

feel very sure I am right, because at half-past seven I stood on the^cor- 
ner of South street and looked towards the Old Colony illuminated 
clock, and I even thought then of running and taking the train, but I 
found I did not have time ; and about two or three minutes after that, 
as I stood there, a hose-carriage came up that street. 
Q. How soon did the hose throw water ? 

A. It seemed to me only two minutes after I saw it go by. I think 
they must have thrown water by twenty-five minutes of eight. I know 
it was very quickly done. 

Q. When did a steamer arrive ? 

A. I heard a steamer, but I did not see it. I was on the other side 
when the steamer arrived. It came from the direction of Washington 
street, I think. 

Q. Can 3'^ou tell the time when you heard it? 

A. I should think it was almost exactl}' upon the striking of what I 
thought was the first alarm, and it struck me as peculiar ; that is, 7.30 ; 
my watch, by the way, being one minute fast. The hose-carriage came 
very near on that hour, and I think (I would not swear to it) that I 
heard another one approaching, on the other side, about the same time. 
I ran round the building several times to see the progress of the fire ; 
after I had been to the back side, I went round to the front, and there I 
saw the glass melt down and fall into the street. There were very few 
people there, and it seemed a long time before people arrived. 
Q. In what story did the fire first show itself? 

A. It showed itself from the ver}' upper story, the highest part of the 
building. The back side of it was different in construction, looked dif- 
ferent from the front. 
Q. What was the front? 

A. The front was covered more by the Mansard roof. I saw the fire 
coming out of the upper windows in the Mansard roof. 

Q. Did you notice whether the building back of that was on fire or 
not when the water was first thrown on? 

A. I think it was not. I watched very closely to see if any other 
building caught fire, and I did not see that. I went round the building 
several times. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) Could you see the water thrown on the fire? 
A. Yes, sir; and one of the first things I noted, and what made me 
think it would be a bad fire, was the fact that the water did not seem to 
make any impression on it. 

Q. Did the water reach it, apparently? 

A. It reached it sometimes, but it had the appearance to me — I did 
not feel right ; I had seen a great many fires break out, and I remained 



16 

there for that reason, because I felt it was to be a bad fire ; otherwise, I 
should have got to m}'- home as quick as I could. The water did not 
seem to make any impression ; it seemed to be turned into steam. I 
talked with several men about it, and they said it looked bad, and we 
made the remark that we were afraid it would go across the street, it was 
■so hot ; it was verj^ hot indeed. 

Q. You say the flames were coming out of the upper windows of the 
Mansard roof before water reached that portion of the building? 

A. I should say they did. I should say the upper part of the stream 
did reach it, but it did not seem to have any effect. 

Q. (By Mr. Rdssell.) Was the hose carried up a ladder? 

A. They carried it up a ladder and stood on the roof, as near as they 
could. The firemen stood on the top of the roof. The first thing I no- 
ticed was that. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) The roof of the building that was burning? 

A. Yes, sir. I made the remark, " What brave fellows those firemen 
-are to go at this thing right off! " Thej^ went so close to it, that when 
the upper part gave way, I thought they must have fallen through 
at one time ; but when the smoke and flame cleared there they were 
standing at their posts, holding up something as a screen before them. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) How long was that after the alarm you heard? 

A. That might have been five minutes after the alarm I heard when I 
saw them on that roof; certainly not over ten. 

Q. From 7.35 to 7.40? 

A. Yes, sir. It struck me, that considering they could not use horses, 
they got to work there remarkabl}^ quick. That was the impression I 
had at the time. They seemed to be very active and verj^ quiet about 
it. I was close to them at first, while the}^ were making ready, and it 
struck me that they went to work very rapidly, and how quick they got 
on the roof, and how quick the}- got to work. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) Do you know how they got on the roof? 

A. I think the first ascent to the roof must liave been made through 
the building ; at any rate, I did not see any ladders in the first of it. I 
think I saw people on the roof before I saw ladders put up, and then I 
did see ladders. 

Q. (By Mr. Greene.) Did you notice whether the ladder took fire ? 

A. I did not see it take fire. I think I should have noticed it, if it 
Jiad taken fire. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) Did j'ou notice what engine it was that first 
arrived ? 

A. No, sir ; I did not. 

Q. Or the hose ? 



17 

A. I did not notice it. My impression is that the hose carriage that 
arrived on Summer street, while I was standing there, was the East 
street hose-carriage ; but I do not know positively that it was. I took it 
for granted it was, because it came from that direction. 

FREDERICK U. TRACY, sworn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) You are the City Treasurer of Boston? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. "Will you tell us when and where you first noticed the fire on No- 
vember 9 th? 

A. I came up on the Old Colony road, and went from there to the 
Albany depot, and just as I turned the corner into Beach street, I no- 
ticed some boys crying fire, and running across Kingston street, and I 
followed them up to the corner of Kingston and Bedford. 

Q. What was the time ? 

A. I am not certain about the time. I looked at mj' watch in South 
Boston, when we stopped there, and it was about five minutes past seven. 
But I stopped some time at the Old Colony depot, trying to get a 
carriage there to ride home, but did not succeed, and then walked up. 
It ma}^ have been twenty or twenty-five minutes past seven. 

Q. Do you know when the alarm was given? 

A. I did not hear any alarm given. There was a great noise of boys 
shouting " Fire ;" but I don't think the alarm was given until after I 
arrived at the corner of Kingston and Bedford streets. 

Q. How long after that did any hose come? 

A. I did not see any hose come, sir. 

Q. Or an}'' engine? 

A. An engine came, probably, I think, in quarter of an hour after I 
got there. 

Q. Did you notice how long it was after the engine came before any 
water was put on the fire ? 

A. I should think, from the time I first heard the boys' cry until the en- 
gines began to pla}', it was three quarters of an hour. Of course, I can- 
not judge exactly ; 1 have no means of judging, only time passes quickly 
at such times. An engine (I think it was No. 3) came down dragged 
by hand ; they had no fuel, — evidently waited for fuel, — and when 
the fire was got up, the)^ used something besides coal for firing, the smoke 
was so dense ; I supposed it was petroleum, or something of that kind. 

Q. Where was that stationed ? 

A. About the centre of Kingston street, then. 

Q. Did 3'ou notice that they had no coal, except from seeing the smoke? 



18 

A. I did not notice that tbey had no coal ; I noticed that it took them 
some time before they got fire up, and when they did fire up, I noticed 
the dense smoke, because I could not see directly in front of me. I 
could only see the buildings on each side of the street ; I could not see 
the building on Summer street, in front, on the corner. 

Q. You don't know about any other engine? 

A. I don't. I don't know of any streams except two hose 
streams, I presume, from the force with which the water was thrown. 
I could see that there were tM^o streams of water, which apparently were 
wasted entirely. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) "Where was the fire when 3'^ou got there? 

A. When I first arrived there, the attic of the store on the corner was 
apparently in a blaze throughout. I don't know, but I am pretty sure, 
that it broke through the roof before I got there, before I supposed any 
alarm had been given. It seemed as if the whole interior of the building 
was on fire. There was no light in any of the stories except in the 
attic ; that is, I could not see any light ; but it was not long before 
every window, I suppose, in the second and third stories of the building 
was thrown out, and a blaze of fire followed. I did not see a sign of 
fire there before. 

Q. (By Mr. Greene.) Do you understand the signal for coal ? 

A. No, sir, I do not. I could not have heard the signal. There was 
so much noise it would have been impossible for me to have heard it. 
There seemed to be some trouble about getting up steam. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) These two streams that you say did not touch 
the fire, did they reach up to the place? 

A. Oh, no. 

Q. Where did they strike? 

A. About the third story, I should think. The fire was two stories 
above. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) How was it with the water from the steamer? 

A. That had force enough. The very moment they got up steam, 
the steam dissipated the smoke, and I could see the whole of the upper 
story of this corner building and the dormer window, and I could see 
(even wheu the smoke was there) that there was_ a place on fire just 
round the top of the dormer window. They would throw a stream and 
strike that, and it would go entirely out, but it would light up again 
very soon ; and then tlie}'^ would throw another dash of M'ater at it ; but 
I can't say where the stream from the hose went to. 

Q. (By Mr. Greene.) Did j^ou see any hosemen on top of the build- 
ing? 

A. No, sir ; no hoseman could live there. But there were men on the 



1^ 

next building to it, whether firemen or people in charge of the store, I 
don't know. There seemed to be a passage-way between the two build- 
ings, — the one on Kingston street, and the one on Summer street, — and 
they were protected there by a high brick wall, and stayed a long time 
after the fire began, and after it was in full blaze, and the blaze going 
directly towards Columbia street. There is where I supposed the fire 
was going when I left it, I must have stayed there nearly an hour, 
but the building that was first on fire, after this blaze came out of the 
second story, seemed to fall in from that story up. The whole of the 
stone work seemed to fall in ; evidently a very intense heat. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) Yon are sure there was no one on the roof of 
the building? 

A. No, sir, I can't say that. I am sure I saw no one ; but I don't think 
any one could have stood there. 

Q. (By Mr. Gkeene.) The people on the adjoining building were 
spectators, were they ? 

A. I am not sure. I heard them call out to the men below, and I 
supposed they were connected with the Fire Department. They were 
evidently not engineers ; that is, they had not engineers' caps on. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) This building was five stories high, including 
the Mansard roof? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) Did you see the second engine arrive? 

A. I did not see any other engine come there. I could see only directly 
on Kingston street ; I could not see what was doing on Summer street 
at all. No second one came for a long, long time, I think. I stayed 
there some time, still supposing that the fire was going the other way. 
There seemed to be an unaccountable delay in getting water ; I did not 
understand it. 

Q. (By Mr. Greene.) I understood you to say that you thought it 
was fifteen minutes after the alarm before you saw an engine ? 

A. I did not hear the alarm at all. After the boys cried " Fire," I 
think it was three-quarters of an hour before this engine got up its 
stream and began to play. When it did play, there was plenty of power 
to throw the water anywhere on the building, because it threw it up to 
this upper dormer window, and put the fire out. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) Did you see either of the engineers come? 

A. I did not see either of the engineers come. The hose were play- 
ing on Summer street. Tliere might have been an engineer connected 
with the engine, but I did not know him. 



20' 



A. C. MARTIN, stvorn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) You are an architect? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. You live in Boston ? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Will you state when and where you first noticed the fire on the 
9th of November? 

A. I had been to Concord, N. H., on Saturday, Nov. 9th, and first 
saw the light of the fire about twenty miles from Boston, coming down 
in the train ; followed it, of course, all the way to Boston, and as soon 
as I got to the depot, I inquired about it, learned the extent of it, 
and immediately went up to Franklin street, and first saw the fire be- 
tween ten and eleven o'clock, — very near eleven o'clock. 

Q. Will you state anything that you know about the fire that you 
think will be of value? 

A. I was particularl}' interested, as a spectator, in observing how the 
fire took, and watching its progress, speculating on the best way of 
stopping it, and all that sort of thing. 

Q. How long have 3^ou been an architect? 

A. I have been an architect since 1859. I first established myself 
then. 

Q. Go on and state an3'thing j^ou noticed. 

A. I first saw the fire on Franklin street, and watched its progress 
from building to building, and I made up my mind, from what I saw, 
that the principal reason wh}^ the fire spread with such rapidity was 
owing to the fact that the buildings werp all much higher than the height 
to which the steamers could throw their water. They did not work from 
the tops of the buildings in fighting it at that time. I thought it would 
have been much better to have gone to the top of a building, the second, 
third, or fourth away from the one on fire, and fight the fire from above, 
rather than stand in the street, as they did, and fight it from there. 
I noticed that in some buildings the fire seemed to catch along the 
wooden cornices and wooden finish around the Mansard roofs ; in other 
cases, the fire would appear inside the building, and the building would 
be wholly lighted up before the fire attacked the roof at all. From that 
I made up my mind that the partition walls were not thick enough ; that 
the fire went directly through the brick work and communicated with 
the floor timbers let into the walls. But the wooden cornices and Man- 
sard roofs, and the entire lack of party walls extending up to the roofs, 
account, in a great measure, for the fire extending as it did. 



21 

Q. Did you see any of the firemen standing on the roofs of the 
houses? 

A. I did not see any of the firemen standing on the roofs in the early 
part of the fire. They did not seem to make any effort to get on the 
roofs and fight it from the roofs. I noticed particularly Hovej-'s em- 
plo3'ees, — I supposed, of course, they were not firemen, because they 
did not have firemen's hats on. I noticed that tl ey put blankets on the 
roof and over the windows, and threw water on them, fighting it in the 
best possible way. I have ipo doubt that that saved the roof from taking 
fire, and probably saved the building, although the rear wall was very 
thick — 24 to 28 inches. 

Q. (B}-- Mr. Greene.) You say the fire ignited beneath the roofs in 
several instances ? 

A. Yes, sir, I saw it in several instances. It would get into a build- 
ing without attacking the outside. It would be inside and get well 
going, then the glass would crash, and the fiames would belch out. 
I understand that that was caused by the bricks getting so hot that they 
ignited the wood work inside. There is no question, I believe, that that 
is the fact. It is the practice in Boston to build the floor timbers into 
the walls, and in an ordinary brick wall, if the floor timbers are let in 
the usual length, there would be but four inches of brick work between 
the ends of the floor timbers. Of course, the wall will get very hot, 
the ends of the floor timbers will be burned off, and they will fall out, 
and, the fire continuing to burn, in a short time that four inches will be 
red-hot. I have no doubt that in many instances the fire went right 
through walls, on account of their not being thick enough. 

Q. (B}' Mr. EussELL.) Did you watch the fire on other streets? 

A. Yes, sir. I went nearly round the fire. Later in the evening, it 
made its way down to the water, and it was not so easy to pass in that 
direction, and I skirted down through Pearl street, and Oliver street 
way. 

Q. (By Mr. Fikth.) "Were those walls you speak of stone or brick? 

A. They were brick between the buildings. 

Q. Did you see any case where the fire went through stone walls ? 

A. There are no party walls between buildings of stone ; they are 
always brick. In many cases, the fire would communicate across a 
street from the heat. 

Q. In cases where the buildings were stone ? 

A. Yes, sir, very frequently. That did not seem to make any special 
difference, but the fire would go across the street, and catch an}' wooden 
finish there was about the roof. There is where the wooden finish on a 
roof was more dangerous than stone or brick. For instance, I was down 



22 

in Congress street at one time, and there seemed to be a complete mass 
of flames across the street, so that there was no space between them. 

Q. (B3' Mr. Russell.) Will you give us j^our opinion of the Mansard 
roof, as constructed in Boston? 

A. Tlie Mansard roof, as constructed in Boston, if it is constructed 
out of the reach of water, is a very dangerous feature in a building. 

Q. Suppose it is within reach of water? 

A. If it is within reach of water, and the walls are carried up through, 
it could ver}' easily be made comparatively safe. If the roof is prop- 
erly constructed, with no wooden finish about it, it is as safe as any 
roof. 

Q. (By Mr. Greene.) The trouble is, there is a great deal of wood 
about it? 

A. That is the trouble. You may sa}^ our architecture here in Boston 
has sprung from foreign architecture, which was carried out in stone ; 
but it is so much easier to make a showy window in wood, and so much 
cheaper, that the owners were willing to do it, and architects, of course, 
were willing to produce an effect ; so that, instead of the stone con- 
structions which they have abroad on ;their roofs, and nothing else, we 
have great masses of wood, which become, in case of fire, very objec- 
tionable features. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Is there an}^ trouble with the Mansard roof 
in itself, if the materials are proper? 

A. I do not see any objection to the Mansard roof, if the materials 
are proper, and the work put together in a proper Vfay. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) What do you think of copper? 

A. Copper is the best roof covering we have, and the most expensive. 
Then I think another reason wh}" fire spreads so rapidl}'' in our cities — 
I do not know that Boston is peculiar in that respect — is that we have 
timber very plenty. We put in our lieavj' floor timbers, three, four and 
five inches thick, and fourteen or sixteen inches deep, and from six to 
twelve inches apart, as the case may be ; then comes the under floor on 
top of these timbers, and the uppej- floor on top of that ; then the walls 
are furred, and lathed and plastered, making all the floors and the fur- 
ring on the walls open, so that the air passes freely through ; and in 
case of fire, these spaces become conductors ; the currents pass through 
very freely, and fire is communicated ver}^ rapidlj', especially in an 
upper direction. There seems to jiave been an utter absence of any 
legal provision in the direction of guarding against fire, until within the 
last two j'cars. Two years ago, we got a Building Act passed, and that 
had certain restrictions ; but even those were opposed by certain parties 
in the city government, and we had to make a fight last year before the 



23 

Legislature to retain those restrictions. There seemed to be an unwil- 
lingness on the part of the public to submit to any limits to their indi- 
vidual ideas of what they wanted and what they should build. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Were the architects generally desirous of 
having the Act ? 

A. Yes, sir, the Society of Architects drew up the Act. I drew up 
the Act, or compiled it from the London, New York, Philadelphia, and 
Baltimore fire laws ; and after I had gone as far as I could with it, the 
Society passed it in review, amended some of the provisions, and then 
it was handed over to the city government, and they further amended 
it, changed quite a number of the provisions to suit their own views, 
and then it was put into the hands of a committee at the State House, 
and after a number of hearings, it finally became a law. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) What are its main features as passed? 

A. The main feature of the Act is to provide, to a certain extent, 
against the abuses in building, which have been very prevalent in Bos- 
ton. I think the law stands something like this : Buildings 35 feet 
in height shall have walls not less than 12 inches thick up to the top 
of the upper floor, and not less than eight inches thick above that ; 
and all buildings over 35 feet in height, and not exceeding 50 feet, 
shall have walls 16 inches thick, and the party walls shall be car- 
ried up through the building to the roof. We could not get a pro- 
vision to have the party walls carried up through the Mansard roofs ; 
somebody objected to it. Then there were some other things, such as 
the security of foundation walls ; and there was a clause forbidding any 
one to cut an opening from one warehouse to another without a "permit? 
and providing double iron doors, and a provision against hatchways. 
There was also a clause providing for the appointment of inspectors to 
visit all fires, and inquire into their origin and cause, and report to the 
Fire Department the peculiarities of construction of buildings. The 
idea, in general, was to keep the Fire Department well posted upon 
the construction of all buildings in Boston, so that they should know 
if there was any peculiar! t}!- about a building, which, in case of fire, 
would render it unsafe for the firemen to go upon the roof. 

Q. (B}' Mr. Greene.) Have these restrictions been observed? 

A. The Act was only passed tAvo years ago. There is an inspector 
of buildings now, with two assistants, and the provisions of the law 
have been carried out, to a certain extent. If such a law had been in 
existence ten years ago, those buildings would have been in a much 
better condition than they were. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) Could such a fire have occurred? 

A. I don't thiuk'it could. The law is not sufficientlv stringent. It 



24 

requires to be considerably more stringent. I think there should be a 
limit to the height of buildings as compared with the width of the street. 
Of course, there is more risk in having a high building on a narrow than 
on a wide street, but I doubt if the city would be willing, even now, to 
place any such restrictions upon the desire of people to build whatever 
they have a mind to. 

Q. (By Mr. Eussell.) Have you seen the Building Act that is now 
pending? 

A. I have seen it reported in the newspapers ; I have not seen the 
whole thing. 

Q. "Was not High street built subsequently to the time the Building 
Act went into effect ? 

A. I think some'of the stores were, sir. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) Do you understand why there should be any 
objection at City Hall? 

A. I don't know why there should be ; but we were obliged to go up 
to the Legislature the year after the Act was passed and oppose an 
attempt to repeal a certain portion of the Act. Then we tried to get 
a prohibition of Mansard roofs more than one story high, and bay win- 
dows more than a certain height above the street, and certain other 
things, which were defeated, I don't know why. I did not follow 
it up myself, but I know they did not get the amendments to the Act 
which they tried to get. 

Q. How long were you present at the fire? 

A. All night, sir. I got there about eleven o'clock. I worked part 
of the time helping a friend move books. I was there all night, until 
eight o'clock in the morning, before I got home. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) Did you at any time see anj' firemen on a roof, 
an3'where ? 

A. I did not. They were on the roof of the building opposite to the 
" Post " building, I was told, but I did not see them there. But on 
Franklin street and Summer street I did not see anybody on the roof 
except the employees of Hovey & Co., on their own building. 

Q. "What seemed to you, towards morning, after the fire had grown to 
such proportions, was the thing to be done ? 

A. I kept watching all the time to see some preparations made to blow 
up buildings, but I did not seem to see anything started in that direction 
until along about three o'clock, when there seemed to be indications that 
they were going to blow up buildings. I saw one building blown up, 
and saw one building that they attempted to blow up where it was a 
failure, and after that, they blew up quite a number of buildings. But 
I should say, also, that one great difficulty that night was the crowd in 



25 

the streets. It was difficult for the firemen to get round ; it was difficult 
for them to handle their engines and handle their hose. What was 
needed was perhaps a regiment of soldiers to clear the streets and keep 
them clear in the immediate vicinity of the fire. I noticed that partic- 
ularly in cases of fire abroad. I happened to be in a German town, 
Mannheim, when they had the largest fire they had had for a great many 
years, and I got to the place as soon as possible, but before I got there, 
they had a batallion of soldiers on the ground to clear the streets, and 
nobody was allowed to come within a certain distance, and then par- 
ties were pressed in to assist them, if they were needed. Everything 
seemed to be under the control of one leading mind. That did not seem 
to me to be the case at our fire. Of course I could not tell. I did not 
see the chief engineer or anybodj- else, but everybody seemed to be in 
despair and hopeless. There did not seem to be anything doing, or any- 
thing that could be done. 

Q. (By Mr. Greene.) Panic-stricken ? 

A. Yes, sir, panic-stricken. That is the feeling I had. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) Were there any buildings that succumbed to the 
fire, that j^ou know of, where the walls were twenty inches thick? 

A. I think I saw quite a number of cases where the walls were twenty 
inches thick ; some of those buildings on Pearl street, and other places 
I have noticed. I don't think, in case of a fire like that, after the 
fire gets well going, as that fire did, it would make any difference how 
thick the walls were, as long as there was so much timber to burn. I 
do not see any reason why the same thing should not occur in other 
places in Boston, or New York, or any other city. There is so much to 
burn in any particular building, that if a fire gets well going, there 
will be such an amount of heat, that the adjoining buildings and 
all about it will be placed in a dangerous position. 

DANIEL F. MAEDEN, sioorn. 

Q. (By Mr. Eussell.) You are foreman of Engine No. 7 ? 
A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Where is Engine No. 7 stationed ? 
A. On East street. 

Q. At what time did you hear the alarm on the 9th? 
A. I didn't notice the clock, but it was on the first stroke of the bell,, 
about quarter past seven. 
Q. What did you do then ? 
A. We were on our way to the fire at that time. 
Q. You were on your way to the fire before you heard the alarm ? 



26 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. How did 3'0ii get notice of the fire ? 

A. Some one came and tolled our door-bell and halloed, " Fire in 
Bedford street ! " and we started our hose-carriage ; our hose-carriage 
was just outside the door when the bell first struck. 

Q. Did you go with the hose-carriage ? 

A. I went as far as South street, about four or five rods. 

Q. Then what did you do ? 

A. I turned back and got all the crowd I could to bring the engine to 
the fire. 

Q. Where did you get the men for the engine? — from the crowd? 

A. From the crowd in the street. 

Q. How much of a team did j^ou get? 

A. I should think there were over a hundred men and boys. 

Q. What proportion of them men ? 

A. I should say about one-half of them. 

Q. At what rate did they go to the fire — fast or slow ? 

A. They ran all the way. 

Q. How long were they in getting to the fire with the engine? 

A. I should say they were inside of two minutes. It couldn't possi- 
bly have been more than that. 

Q. How long before you threw water on the fire ? 

A. Well, I will set that at two minutes more, which I consider out- 
side of the limits. In four minutes from the time the bell struck we 
played water with the steamer. 

Q. Was that played from the street, or was the hose carried up on a 
ladder, or how was it? 

A. We took our hose in the rear of this building that caught fire, to 
keep it from going into the rear. We went to the rear of the building 
from Bedford street. 

Q. Was that building on fire when j'ou got there? 

A. It was smoking, and there was danger of its catching fire, and my 
object in playing there was to try to stop the fire from spreading, instead 
of putting our water directlj^ on the fire. 

Q. So that you didn't play directly on the fire ? 

A. We didn't pla}'- directlj^ on the fire in the building which first 
caught. 

Q, What was done with the hose at that time ? Where was that 
placed ? 

A. That is where we played our steamer ; the hose-carriage and 
steamer usually are connected, but thej' ran separately that night. 



27 

Q. I thought there was also a hose screwed to the hydrant — that was 
not yours, if there Avas any? 

A. Our line from the hose-carriage was laid from the hydrant, but 
when they brought the steamer to the hydrant, we immediately connected 
that with the steamer. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) All the water you threw was from the steamer? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) There was only one stream from your engine? 

A. Only one stream. " 

Q. What engine came next? 

A. I don't know. 

Q. Did the water you threw reach the top of the building? 

A. It did at times. 

Q. Where was the fire in the first building which caught? 

A. It appeared to be from top to bottom. I didn't stop to examine 
it closely, but I should say that the fire was all through the building. I 
hardly ever stop to looli at a fire, but my object is to get to work as 
quick as possible. 

Q. Did 3"ou have plenty of fuel ? 

A. That is something I don't know anything about ; I don't have 
anything to do with it. 

Q. I suppose that would follow, if j'ou threw water in four minutes? 

A. We have warm water in our boilers always. We have a heater 
connected with the steamer which keeps the water hot. 

Q. Do you know whether it was hot that night or not? 

A. I don't recollect, but I think it was. I have nothing to do Avith 
the fir«s in the engine mj'self ; it is not my business to attend to ihat. 

Q. Do you know whether there was an}^ failure of fuel at an}^ time 
that evening? 

A. I don't know as there was. 

Q. Would you not have known it if there had been ? 

A. I think I shoulcl, up to the time when I left. I received a sprained 
ankle the first part of the evening, but I kept around with the engine 
until half past two o'clock, when I had to leave ; I couldn't stand it any 
longer. 

Q. Where was the engine then ? 

A. On Federal street. It fell back a little from the Hartford & Erie 
depot, towards South Boston. 

Q. As a general thing, were the engines supplied with fuel properly ? 

A. The}' were, so far as I know. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) Is there some sort of signal by which you know 
whether they need fuel or not? 



28 

A. When they need fuel, the engineers blow their whistles. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Whose duty is it then to bring it to them ? 

A. Whose duty it is I don't know, but it is usually done by one of 
the drivers, who takes his pair of horses and goes to the fuel wagon by 
order of the engineer. 

Q. Where is the fuel wagon kept, — in the engine house ? 

A. I don't know. 

Q. At this time, had j'ou had instructions about using horses or oth- 
erwise? 

A. I received instructions from the district engineer to double the 
men in my company, and run the hose carriage by hand to certain sec- 
tions of the city on the first alarm, and on the second alarm I think the 
instructions were to bring the engine. 

Q. By hand? 

A. By hand. 

Q. You were not to use horses at [any time? 

A. Not to use horses at that time — while they were sick. 

Q. How did those instructions come to you ? 

A. Verbally, from our district engineer. He came to the engine- 
house and sent for me to come there, and gave me these instructions. 

Q. Could there be much difference in the time of reaching the fire 
whether the engine was drawn by men or horses ? 

A. I don't think it would make ten seconds' difference either way. I 
don't think whether we had horses or not would have made ten seconds' 
difference. 

Q. (By Mr. Greene.) Is No. 7 very near where the fire broke out? 

A. I think I could run there in one minute. I think I could run from 
the engine house to the fire in about one minute. I have stated that it 
took two minutes with the steamer, and I consider that outside the 
limits. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Who was at the engine house when the alarm 
was given besides you ? 

A. I can't say whether there was any other hoseman in the house, but 
two of the steamer's men were in the house ; Avhether a third was there 
or gone to supper, I can't say. 

Q. What is the rule about having anybody in the house ? 

A. That I have nothing to do with ; I know nothing about it. 

Q. Are there any orders to you ? 

A. There are no orders to me. 

Q. You are not bound to be at the engine house? 

A. No, sir. The hosemen or foreman, as I undei'stand it, have no 
business at the engine house, or with anything in the engine house. 



29 



Q. What, in j'our opinion, was the cause of the fire getting beyond 
control so soon ? 

A. Well, that is a very hard question for me to answer. The fire was 
burning furiously, and the building was very high, and the buildings 
connected with it, and those Mansard roofs, I think, helped it along. In 
regard to the steamers coming in, whether they had steam enough to put 
their streams to the top of those buildings, or anything of the kind, I 
don't know anything about it. 

Q. You know about your own stream ? 

A. Our steamer gave us a good stream of water. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) Are you foreman of the steamer? 

A. There is no foreman connected with an engine company. The 
man is sometimes called foreman of the company, and sometimes called 
foreman of the hose, but I have nothing to do, according to the city or- 
dinances, with the men or apparatus in the engine house, or anything in 
the engine house ; I have no business there. When the engine goes out, 
I have the placing of her at any place to get a supply of water, and have 
charge of the hose and hosemen connected with the company. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) You direct where the water shall be thrown? 

A. Well, I should take that responsibility ; of course, that is my place, 
unless I have orders from an engineer, which I am bound to obey. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) Until he arrives, you give directions? 

A. Until he' arrives, I use my own judgment. After that, I must obey 
his orders. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Where was your engine stationed next after 
you left that spot ? 

A. We went to the hydrant opposite the Hartford & Erie Depot, cor- 
ner of Federal and Broad streets. 

Q. Was there any trouble there about water or steam ? 

A. No trouble about steam or water. 

Q, Where did you go next ? 

A. They fell back from there to the reservoir, perhaps three hundred 
feet along Federal street, towards South Boston. We were driven away 
from that corner and had to fall back to the next place, and there we did 
the best we could to stop the fire, and, with others, we did stop it on 
Federal street. I couldn't stand the pain in my ankle any longer ; I felt 
as though I must get home. 

Q. There you say the fire was stopped ? 

A. The fire was stopped. 

Q. Can you tell just where it was? 

A. I can't tell exactly where it was, but it will show for itself. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) Did it go any further afterwards ? 



30 



A. No, sir. At the time I left, they had stopped the fire theve. 

Q. How many streams were plaj'ing there? 

A. There were two in sight, besides ours, that I could see. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Do you know what engines they were ? 

A. I thinlv one was from Hyde Park, and one from South Boston. 

Q. You do not know anything about the use of gunpowder at this fire? 

A. No, sir, I know nothing about it. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) You say that when you went to this fire, you 
played upon the building in the rear ; what building was that? 

A. It was the building fronting Kingston street, right in the rear. 

Q. And the building on the corner was apparently on fire from top to 
bottom ? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. How soon after j^ou got there did you see an engineer ? 

A. Well, I don't think it was over five minutes. 

Q. Who was that? Jf 

A. Capt, Regan, our dptrict engineer, who lives near by. In setting 
this time, I judge of it b}' others who have held watches when we have 
gone to other places and gone to work. Of course, we are very busy 
getting to work, and we can't tell the time ; but I judge from the distance 
and our time of getting to work, that we played water inside of four 
minutes from the time the alarm struck. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) Can you tell when the second engine arrived 
there ? 

A. No, sir, I can't tell anything about it. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) Did you see the Chief Engineer? 

A. I saw the Chief Engineer, I should think, from seven to nine or 
ten minutes after I got there. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) About when did you leave that place to go 
down to the Hartford & Erie Depot? 

A. Well, I can't tell ; I couldn't state the time within an hour and a 
half, and I can't tell, as time goes very quick in such cases. 

Q. How many men have you ? 

A. There are eleven men, all told, in the company. There are seven 
men under me. 

Q. (By Mr. Greene.) Was there any deficiency in the power of your 
stream ? 

A. I don't tliink there was ; I tliink we had our usual good stream. 

Q. (By Mr, Russell.) I understand you to say that that was the 
case until you left? 

A. That was the case all the time I was with the engine. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) There was no want of water or otherwise? 



31 



A. There was no want of water or anything of the kind with our 
engine. ^ 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) 'V^ro.kWere the three men not under you ? 

A. The engineer, fireman, and driver, who are permanently employed. 
All the others are under my direction. 

Q. Who directs those three ? 

A. I don't know anything about it. They are not beholden to me. 



NATHAN S. BROWN, sworn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) You are foreman of Hose Co. No. 2 ? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Where is Hose 2 situated? • 

A. On Hudson street, sir. 

Q. What time did you first know of the fire on the 9th of November? 

A. I can't state exactlj'^, but I think between quarter and half-past 7. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) How did you know? By the ahirm? 

A. By the alarm, sir. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Where were you? 

A. Standing in my shop door at the foot of Pine street, on Harrison 
avenue. 

Q. How soon did you get to the engine-house ? 

A. I started on the first blow of the bell, for the reason of not being 
able to haul the apparatus with horses, and special orders from our chief 
to be on hand. When I got to the hose-house, the carriage had gone, 
started by volunteers. 

Q, What did you do? 

A. I immediately kept on. Seeing the light of the fire, I didn't need 
to count the box. We always have to count the box to find out whether 
it is in our circuit or not ; but seeing the light, I kept on and arrived at 
the hydrant at the corner of Bedford and Kingston streets, just as the 
carriage got there. I immediately attached to the hydrant, and ran up 
to the rear of the building by an alley-wa}', put on m}' pipe, and passed 
the word to get water, and put the pipe right into the flame in the cellar 
window. At the same time, the burning debris and stuff" were flying from 
the upper windows down on to us. The reason I know that fact is 
because I had to take the pipe out of the cellar window and play on the 
hose behind me to prevent its burning, being new hose, and not want- 
ing, of course, to have my hose burst right there at that critical mo- 
ment. Likewise, there was a large piece of burning stuff" came and 
struck one of my men, and knocked his hat off". 



32 

Q. The building was on fire from top to bottom when you got there ? 

A. Yes, sir. I saw it coming out of t|||^ roof when I turned the 
corner of Oak and Hudson streets. That is about one minute's run 
from my shop. 

Q, "Was anything else playing on that fire when you got there ? 

A. No, sir ; ours was the first water put on. I held the pipe mj^self,- 
and put on the first water. 

Q. How high would that throw water? 

A. At that time that hydrant ought to throw a stream thirty feet, at 
the least calculation. There was no other hose, of course, tapping 
it at that time, and the force of the water was as powerful as it ever is. 

Q. When did you see the first steamer come ? 

A. I should judge we had played there about five minutes. Amid the 
excitement of the moment, I can't state the time exactly, but it didn't 
seem longer than five minutes before I saw No. 4 drive up, and take the 
hydrant on the corner of Kingston and Summer streets. But previous 
to that, steamer No. 7 must have been at work, though I didn't see 
them, because they are the nearest steamer ; but while we were playing 
in the alley-wa}^, a line of hose from No. 7 came through the fence, and 
they passed the word. That is where I met the Chief. He asked me 
where I was stationed, and I told him, and he said, " Take your line 
right out, and take it into the adjoining building." The fire was then 
catching on the upper windows. This alley-way is not, I should judge, 
more than ten or a dozen feet wide. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) How long had you been there when you saw 
the Chief ? 

A. I had not been there over five or eight minutes ; about eight 
minutes, I think. I took the line right out of the alley-way, under the 
Ohief 's directions, never stopped the water at all, because I knew if I 
stopped the water, the chances were a steamer might come up and take 
the hydrant, and that would be a delay of perhaps three minutes, and at 
that time we needed the water ; so I roused the hose up three flights 
with the water on into a room, and found the window-sills and frames 
going. I threw one of the windows right up, and jumped at the win- 
dow-curtains, and, with the rest of the men, toi'e all the curtains down. 
Then we tipped the cases over that stood upright, so that they would 
not draw the fire, and played there until our water was cut off", in conse- 
quence of No. 3 coming up and taking the hydrant; and then word 
came to me to come out of the building immediately, in consequence of 
the wall of the building that first caught being liable to topple over on 
this building. Not immediately crediting the order, because I didn't 
receive it from an engineer, I went into the street to find out the truth 



33 

of the report, ami there I met an engineer, who told me, " Capt. Brown, 
take your line right out ; " and then I gave orders to have the line taken 
out, and I stood in the street and played with a powerful steamer stream, 
for No. 3 had then got to work, and was playing two streams — their 
own, and supplying us. 

Q. What buililing did you get into? 

A. It formed the south-east corner of the alley-wa3\ 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) That was in the rear of the building where the 
fire caught? ^ 

A. Yes, sir, directly in the rear, fronting on Kingston street. 

Q. {By Mr. Russell.) The second building that caught? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Did the walls fall ? 

A. Yes, sir, the walls of that building fell ; but the wall of the one 
that caught first fell first. 

Q. How soon after you came out? 

A. I shouldn't judge it was more than ten or fifteen minutes. The 
rapidity of the fire was beyond anything I have ever seen. I have been 
connected with the Fire Department eleven or twelve years ; been fore- 
man of the company three years. The fire seemed to leap, as it were, 
almost ran like lightning from window to window. 

Q. Was that so at the first? 

A. Yes, sir, at the first of it. 

Q. To what do you attribute that? 

A. I attribute that to the heat being so intense amongst the dry 
goods, that it was undoubtedl}'^ creating a draught of itself, that would 
force the fire on. The place was reported as used as a hoop-skirt fac- 
tory, and the articles are very combustible, and they blazed right up, 
and burned ver}- freel}'. 

Q. Was there any want of water at that time? 

A. No, sir. At that time there was water in plenty. Those two 
streams, the steamer's and ours, rendered service there all the time. 
We didn't have to move, because we happened to be to the leeward of 
the fire ; but steamer 4, I guess, didn't keep that h^-drant more than 
twenty minutes, when they had to leave with suctions and all left at the 
hydrant, I believe ; they didn't have time to take them off, because the 
fire had then reached such a pass that it was dangerous to subject the 
men, or the steamer either, to that position. But of course I can't say 
anything about this thing for certain, only by seeing them myself, you 
know, and knowing the facts of the case, being right there. 

Q. Do A'ou know anything of an\' steamers being short of fuel? 

A. Not at that time, the first of the fire ; but I guess, after the fire, the 
3 



34 

fuel got rather low, because I know that steamer 3's men had to break 
up boxes and one thing and another. 

Q. AVhat time of the night was that? 

A. I should think that might have been about one o'clock in the morn- 
ing. The fire in that locality was then under control, and the engineers 
and what available force was coming in on the alarm from out of town 
was immediately^ despatched down town to go to work there, because 
it didn't look as if the fire was going to spread any further that way ; so 
of course they paid attention to other parts. 

Q. Did you stay in that neighborhood through the fire? 

ji. No, sir. 

Q. Where did you play next ? 

A. We played there until about twelve o'clock on top of the new 
building now in process of finishing very near the corner of Summer and 
Kingston streets; played over the roof of that building into the build- 
ing occupied by Klous & Co., and in fact, all around us where we could 
make a stream available, we played. We had that order. I superin- 
tended the stream myself. 

Q. You carried the hose on to the top of the building, and from there 
played on to the other buildings ? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. (B}'- Mr. Cobb.) That new building in Kingston street? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Did you carr^' it up by a ladder, or the stairs? 

A. Carried it b}^ the stairs. That was a dwelling-house, and the fire, 
when we went up, was burning the blinds and windows. We went up 
through that house, and then from the top of the dwelling-house, we got 
on to the roof of the new building. Then I had orders from an engi- 
neer to take our line down, and run it through Bedford to Columbia 
street, and through the Columbia building, to check the fire on Lincoln 
street. We played there on the dwelling-house that fronted on Bedford 
street, and the dvvelling-house that fronts on Lincoln street, forming the 
corner. After playing there awhile, we deadened the fire down, and 
then we took our hose up to the second-story windows of the building 
fronting on Lincoln street, and played across the street on to the corner 
of Lincoln and Summer street. We worked there, I guess, until about 
two o'clock in the morning, and then steamer 3 made up, and I had no 
special orders from any engineer to make up, but I knew the hydrant 
stream wouldn't be available, and as long as the fire was checked in that 
locality, I thought best to follow them, which we did as lively as we 
could, to the corner of Water and Washington streets. There we 
attached, and both companies ran a line of hose, and we passed the word 



35 

to pla}' ; but when the water came, the stream was so small that it was 
ineffectual to do any good at all. We couldn't play more than fifteen 
feet from the pipe, because the hydrant above where the steamer was sta- 
tioned was tapped so that we couldn't get water to furnish two streams, and 
the steam company having precedence, I made up my hose. But previous 
to that, I took the Captain of the steamer, Mr. Hine, and we made a circuit 
of the fire, clear down to the Sailors' Home, to find an available spot to get 
to work with our apparatus, and not finding any, we came back, and 
Captain Hine concluded he would stay there until he got orders, and I 
took my compan}^ and carriage, and went down through, and tried every 
steamer as we went along to get to work, but they were all throwing 
two streams of water, and those draughting from the reservoirs were 
throwing two streams, and there was no chance for a hydrant company 
to get to work until I reached the corner of Milk and Kilby, or Water 
and Kilb}^, I am not certain which. There I naet a steamer called Navy 
Yard 2 of Charlestown, waiting for reducing couplings, in order to con- 
nect with the hydrant. I immediately furnished them with the requi- 
site couplings, and they connected with the hydrant, and we connected 
with the steamer, and ran off and went to work under the direction of 
Captain Jacobs. We worked there about an hour in the street doing the 
best we could, and then Captain Jacobs said we must try to stop the 
fire by going on the roofs. We told him we were perfectly willing. I 
broke open the doors of a building that was just finished, and took the 
tackle and falls and put it on m}^ pipe, and sent part of my men to the 
loft, and put the rest of the men on the falls, and we hauled the pipe up 
into the loft and gave them orders to close the rear shutters and wet 
down everything, and just as soon as the fire made its appearance any- 
where to go for it. We stayed there as long as we could, but the smoke 
was so dense, and the heat so fierce from the opposite buildings, which 
were some of them five stories high, that we couldn't live there. The 
men reported that fact to me, and I went up and found it to be as they 
said, so I ordered the line down and we took the very next building and 
served it the same process ; went up there and wet everything down, and 
hung to it just as long as we possibl}" could. At that time, tbe Type 
Foundry was on fire on the opposite side of the street, a building seven 
stories high, I should judge, with a Mansard roof and very tall chim- 
neys, and when that got to going, the heat was overpowering, and, fear- 
ful that the men might be cut off, I ordered the line down into the street 
again. When we stood in the street playing, there came an explosion 
directly opposite to us, caused by the heat coming into the building, and 
blew the shutters and windows out, prostrated two men, and almost 
knocked me over ; but I managed to right myself, being pretty solid, 



36 

and we stayed there and fought the fire until we stopped it on that street. 
It finally stopped at the stone building which is right exactly opposite 
the Faiibanks' scales warehouse, and there is a sign up which says •' Dry 
Salters," or something like that. That is where the fire was stopped ; 
but we still kept to work on that side of the street, and when we got 
pretty well down to the corner, there was a factory where they have im- 
ported pickles and preserves, and the next building to that was full of 
paints and oils ; but we mounted the roof of the corner building, and 
went along the ridge-pole until we came to a chimney, where we made 
the hose fast, and passed the word for water, and got a powerful stream 
and pla3'ed directly over this establishment, where they have pickles and 
preserves, to the roof of the building on fire ; and that stream, with a 
couple more streams from the alley-way on the other side, checked the 
fire on that street. 

Q. The fire stopped there ? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) What time did you get through there? 

A. That was about three o'clock Sunday afternoon, and by that time, 
we were pretty well tuckered out. 

Q. (By Mr. Greene.) Were those operations obstructed by the 
jcrowds of people, materially? 

A. No, sir, the crowd was kept back very well indeed ; more so than 
1 have seen them at a great many fires. One reason was, that the fire 
•covered so wide a range that it would take a prett}^ good crowd to fill 
all the avenues, and then lines were drawn, and teams prohibited, al- 
though the first part of Sunday morning the teams came up there, loaded 
up with goods, and carried them. off. But we had no bursted hose from 
"that cause. I tried to be careful of my hose. I have orders not to allow 
any wagon to go over a line of hose, and that order is rigidly enforced, 
"'but in such a time I thought we would do the best we could, and I told 
♦my men, " If there is any way that you can let those teams get over to 
pass goods, give them all the show in the world." We played there 
until about five o'clock on Sunday afternoon, and then we got relieved 
until five o'clock Monday morning. That is, relieved from that fire, but 
not relieved from an alarm of fire, and I took the men up to the Sherman 
House, but there was nothing to eat, and I told them they had better go 
home and get their supper and get their rest, because there would be a 
hard day's work on Monday. 

Q. How long were yon on duty? 

A. We were on duty from the time the bell struck, until five o'clock 
Sundny night. We were relieved by Providence 6 steamer. 

Q. Did you have anything to eat during that time? 



37 

A. Some of the men got a little refreshment. I didn't have anything 
to eat, and some of the rest didn't have an3'tliing to eat. There was a 
report along in the afternoon that there was something to eut at Young's 
Hotel, and I sent a man up tliere to find out the truth of it, and he came 
back with the report that everything was eaten up, and there was no use 
for the men to trail up there, because they were tired, and I thought it 
was no use to let them go. We were relieved at five o'clock, and at 
twelve o'clock there came an alarm from box 42, and I dressed and 
started down, and on the Way down another alarm was sounded, and the 
third alarm was struck ; when I got there, and after I got there, the 
fourth alarm was struck. When I got there, I found that the apparatus 
was left with a line of hose down at the recent fire. Of course, we had 
nothing to work with ; I looked round for a sight, told the men to keep 
right together, and finally I found that Fall River Co. No. 4 had gone 
to work with two lines of hose, but being short-handed they were only 
working one line of hose ; the other line was run off, but there was no 
pipe on it. I discovered it merely by accident ; gave that in charge of 
the company ; found a pipe, and asked the engineer of the steamer if he 
would give us water, and he said, " Yes, all we wanted." We went 
over a small shed on the corner of the alley-way that runs by Jordan & 
Marsh's, and played there, I guess an hour, and then the Fall River folks 
got reinforcements, and tliey saw we had a good stream and wanted it, 
and by courtesy it belonged to them, and I gave it up and reported ta 
Capt. Shaw, and he told me to take charge of a line of hose there was 
running from steamer 4, that had then gone up on a spliced ladder on 
Stevenson's building on Washington street. I sent two men up there 
to relieve the pipe men, because I knew it was cold and wet. I told two 
men to relieve them, and I would be right up directly and relieve thera. 
They went up there, and I stood round on the ground for a while super- 
intending putting in a couple of pieces of hose where they burst, and 
finall}^ I went up on the spliced ladder and found that the men had gone 
across the roof and were playing directly into the flame in Shreve, 
Crump & Low's building. That stream, witli the steamer on Washing- 
ton street, opposite Shreve, Crump & Low's, which was playing a power- 
ful stream into the Luthern windows, did more to stop the fire there 
than anything else, I think. Every drop of water I put into that build- 
ing told directly on the flame. I relieved the men on the pipe, because 
I knew they were tired, and stayed there until seven o'clock. The fire 
had then got pretty well deadened down, and I got an order from an 
engineer to take the line down from there. I stood there and lowered 
the line myself and came down through the scuttle into the street, met 
my men, and had orders to take them down to the United States Hotel 



38 

and give tliem some breakfast. So we went clown tliere, but we couldn't 
get anything to eat, there were so many out-of-town firemen there in a 
hurry to get home, who had worked hard, and I told the engineer in 
charge, that I thought the Boston firemen could get served better down 
town, and give all the show in the world to the out-of-town firemen. He 
happened to think the same as I did, and two or three companies, with 
my own, went down to North Market street, where we had our breakfast ; 
then I went back to the place where we left our reel and line of hose, 
made it up, came up to Broad street, and went to work on the coal that 
"was burning there. I worked there about an hour, and Capt. Brown, 
assistant engineer, came along and told me he wanted me give all the 
show in the world to those men who had safes, wet them down and cool 
them off as fast as it could be done. I immediately put on three lines of 
hose, detailed two men to take charge of them, and then took a hose- 
carriage we have and went back to Oliver street, rolled on a full reel of 
hose, and came back and peddled it out in one length and two lengths, 
to merchants and others who had safes, who could not get any compa- 
nies handy, and couldn't get any hose. I did everything I could to ac- 
commodate them, because I thought they were the sufferers, and because 
I thought thc}' should be accommodated. 

Q. -(By Mr. Russell.) When you first w^ent to the fire, while the first 
buildings were burning, was there anybody on the roof of the building 
where the fire caught? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. Was there not at any time? 

A. No, sir, because it was impossible for anybody to get there. We 
were the first company there, and we reeled off a line of hose. 

Q. Would it have been possible to carry it through the first building? 

A. No, I don't think it would, but we went right up three flights in 
the second building. 

Q. You didn't get up as far as the roof? 

A. No, but there was a line above us. I think steamer 4 was above 
us. 

Q. How high were the}^? 

A. They must have been up four flights. 

Q. They were not on the roof? 

A. No, sir. I don't think they were on the roof at all. I think they 
were up in the attic stor}'. 

Q. You speak of the explosions having been caused by gas? 

A. It might have been gas, or it might have been hot air, because the 
rear of this building w^as burning furiously, three or four stories down, 



39 

where it would not show in front at all. It was burning down in the 
rear where the front was comparatively not burning at all. 

Q. Did 3'ou see any trouble from burning of gas an}"^ more than usual 
at a fire ? 

A. No, I didn't see anything that night at the fire. It all worked 
well, as far as I know. The houses that we carried our line of hose up 
through in Kingston street were all lighted with gas, and were all J'ight, 
and they were pretty near the fire ; but the next night, Sunday night, 
the gas went out at my resilience twice, and I told parties then I guessed 
they were shutting off the gas, because I thought it was necessary it 
should be done, knowing the^vast amount of gas pipes that were out of 
order, and leaking gas and everything. 

Q. (J^y Mr. Cobb.) How long did you work upon the first building 
when you got there ? 

A. I think we worked there about ten minutes. 

■Q. The building where the fire began? 

A. Yes, sir. I am liable, of course, to make misstatements in regard 
to the exact time ; because we were all laboring under some excitement 
at that time, but some parties more than others. The hosemen, for in- 
stance, were of course laboring under excitement ; but then it is the 
business of a foreman to keep cool ; and it is the business of an engineer 
also. I know that I had to take the pipe right out of the hands of the 
man who was with me when it was in that cellar, b}^ main force, and 
plaj^ on the hose behind me to keep it from burning. He was kind of 
excited, and would not give ear'to an order. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) How much delay do you suppose there was 
in getting the hose-carriage to the fire in consequence of using men? 

A. In regard to our hose-carriage, I think we arrived at the scene of 
the fire even sooner than we should if we had had a horse, and for this 
reason : being early in the evening, and Saturday evening, when there 
is not a great deal of business done, and there are always more or less 
hangers-on, you know, calling into the house, and one thing and 
another, the light of the fire was discovered before the alarm was given, 
the doors were fiung open, and the carriage started. My shop is about 
one minute's run from the house, and when I went to the house on a 
run, the carriage was rattling _]over the pavements on Kneeland street. 
Hudson street is not paved ; Kneeland street is. I very often notice it 
in the night time, when I am chasing the carriage. I can tell where she 
is by her rattling over the pavements on Kneeland street. I know then 
that she is crossing that street. 

Q. What, in your opinion, made the fire so uncontrollable in the first 
place? 



40 

A. I don't know as I can offer an opinion on that subject. It got 
to going, and there didn't seem to be any stop to it. I never saw the like 
of it. I can hardly explain how it got to going so ; it created a draught 
of itself. When we were on top of that new building, the breeze blew 
a perfect gale ; blew fearfully ; but parties have since told me that it 
was rather a calm night — not much wind outside. 

Q. Did you see or know anything of the use of gunpowder that 
night? 

A. No, sir, only by hearing the explosions, and the reports that they 
were using gunpowder. I saw one building blown up. 

Q. Where was that? 

A. That was in Liberty Square. 

Q. What was the effect? 

A. The effect was very bad for the fire, and didn't do the building any 
hurt at all. I stood and watched the building some little time before 
the explosion came, and it simply blew out all the glass, and unhung 
the doors, and blew them down ; but so far as shattering the wall, or 
breaking the wall or roof, or even the chimneys, I couldn't see that it 
did. 

Q. (By Mr. Gkeene.) It didn't stop the fire at all? 

A. No, sir, it didn't ; in fact, it created more fuel for the fire, for it 
would not only blow all the glass out of the building that was blown 
up, but it would blow the glass out of the surrounding buildings, as in 
the case of the building that was blown up on the corner of Water and 
Congress streets, near the new Post-Office. I was not there ; but when 
we arrived down there, the sidewalk was strown with glass clear up to 
Devonshire street. There was thick plate glass all over the sidewalk, 
where it had been blown out of the windows. 

Q. Was that from Simmons' block? 

A. Yes, sir, that was Simmons' building. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Didn't it bring the floors down in that build- 
ing in Liberty Square? 

A. No, sir, I don't thinly it did ; but I was not a very full observer. 
I had a direct view of the whole of the front of the building, Init all I 
could see was glass flying, and doors, and some little confusion and 
racket. But it didn't seem to materially injure the walls, or settle the 
floors, or anything of that kind. 

Q. (B)'' Mr. Firth.) Were you aware that they were going to blow 
up the building? 

A. Yes, sir ; at that time the street was roped off. The insurance 
companies' men were the parties who were used to warn the firemen and 
crowd back. 



41 

Q. Were yon all watching that? 

A. No, sir, not all of ns. We were at work at that time on the fire^ 
but two or three stood looking at it. 

Q. How many men have you ? 

A. We have nine men with the two substitutes that are furnished us. 

Q. Were they all on duty that night? 

A. Yes, sir, every man of them. There were onl}' eight available 
hosemen ; the ninth man is driver and steward of the company ; his 
business is to take care of th^ apparatus and drive to fires. That is all 
that is expected or required of him, because we have to have some one 
to look after the horse. 

JOSEPH PIERCE, sioorn. 

Q. (B}^ Mr. Russell.) Are 5'ou foreman of engine No. 4 ? 

A. I am not foreman now. I was last year. The foreman is sick,, 
and I acted as foreman on the 9th of November. 

Q. Where is engine No. 4 stationed ? 

A. Brattle Square. 

Q. What was the first knowledge you had of the^^fire? 

A. I was called bj^ the alarm. 

Q. Where were you ? 

A. Coming down Anderson street. 

Q. Did you go down to the engine-house? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. Did you come to the fire ? 

A, Yes, sir. 

Q. I suppose 3^ou went prettj^ quick? 

A. Just as soon as I could get there, right up over the hill. 

Q. Did you find the engine there? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. How soon did the engine come ? 

A. The hose-carriage was there, but not the engine. 

Q. Where was the hose-carriage ? 

A. Attached to the hydrant, and the line run off. 

Q. Did j^ou start as soon as j^ou heard the alarm? 

A. Just as soon as I got the box. No. 52, to know where I had got to- 
go to. ' 

Q, What was done there with the hose ? 

A. It was taken into the building. It was in the building when I got 
there. 

Q. Into what part of the building? 



42 

A. The building on Kingston street, back of the one where the fire 
originated. 

Q. Was it carried up? 

A. Yes, sir, up through the building into the upper room. 

Q. The building was four stories high, wasn't it ? 

A. Four or five. I can't say which with certainty. 

Q. It was not carried to the roof? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. Were the}' throwing water when you got there ? 

A. Yes, sir, they were playing when I got there. 

Q. When did the engine come ? 

A. I should say the engine came in five or six minutes afterwards. 

Q. How soon were they throwing water? 

A. Well, it couldn't have been more than two or three minutes ; long 
enough to take our hose oS" from the hydrant and then attach to the 
suction, which didn't take more than three minutes. 

Q. Where then did they play ? 

A. The}' draughted from the h3'drant on the corner of Kingston and 
Summer streets. 

Q. Where did they throw water? 

A. That was our steamer we were playing with, from the building on 
Kingston street, on the attic floor, to save it from going south down 
Kingston street, on the roof. 

Q. That engine was drawn b}' men, I suppose? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Did you see it when it came? 

A. I saw it when it came ; I was looking out of the window. 

Q. How did it come, fast or slow? 

A. It came on what I should call a good trot. 

Q. Was there an}' want of water while you were there ? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. You mean there was not water enough ? 

A. We couldn't get force enough to do that execution which we had 
•at times preceding, and have since. 

Q. What was the difference? 

A. It seemed to me that the engine, as engine men call it, was run- 
ning away from its water. I presume that the meaning of that is, that 
they cannot get enough water. • 

Q. The water don't flow fast enough — don't feed it? 

A. Tliat is the meaning I should put on it. I am not an engineer. 

Q. Was there any want of fuel ? 

A. Not that I know of. 



43 

Q. Do you know of any that night ? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. Do yon know of their having to use broken boxes instead of coal? 

A. I saw them using boxes in the morning, round at different places. 

Q. How late ? 

A. I should say eight or nine o'clock in the morning, — I don't know 
what engine it was, — when I went down to take a look of the fire on 
Liberty square side. 

Q. Did you see the Chief Engineer there ? 

A, Yes, sir. 

Q. What time did you see him ? How soon after you got there ? 

A. Well, I should think the Chief got there close on to me ; or, in 
other words, he might have been there, and I not have seen him until 
afterwards, after I got into the building. 

Q. Where did j'ou go from there? 

A. Our line was ordered down out of the building into Kingston street. 

Q. Did the same difficulty continue about water ? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. You had plenty of water then? 

A. Yes, sir ; afterwards. 

Q. Where did you go from there? 

A. When the walls of the building fell, they cut our line, and then we 
had to take our line, what we could get of it, and carry it round on the 
Summer street side — round up Bedford street, up through Chauncey and 
down on to Summer street, and connect on the other side, because we 
couldn't get through Kingston street to Summer street, on account of 
the walls having fallen into the street; we couldn't get through that 
way ; it was not possible, the heat was so strong and intense. 

Q. How late did 3'ou stay at the fire ? 

A. Until five o'clock Sunday night. 

Q. Where were j^ou last? 

A. Down at Liberty square, playing at the junction of Liberty square 
and Water street, I guess. 

Q. Playing on the building where the fire stopped in that direction? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Were j-ou on the roof of a building at any time? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Where was that? 

A. That was between Arch and Otis streets, on the left going down 
Summer street. 

Q. How long were you there pla3'ing? 

A. 1 think I was at a Lutheru window six or seven stories high ; I. 



44 

won't say for certain. I should think I was standing there for fifteen 
minutes. 

Q. Was there an}^ chance to stand on the roof of the first building 
that burned, or the second one? 

u4.. No, sir, I should say not, by what I saw when I got there. 

Q. It was too late? 

A. Yes, sir ; nor the one adjoining on Summer street. 

Q. "What in your opinion made the fire get beyond control so quick? 

A. Well, I think by its being such a high building, and the heat being 
so intense, it was impossible for us to get up into it, and fight it as we 
would if the building had been lower. 

Q. (By Mr. Fikth.) With regard to the time that your engine took 
to reach the fire, what is your opinion as to whether any time was lost 
by its being drawn by men instead of horses? if so, how much? 

A. I shouldn't say it would make more than tliree minutes' difference, 
because the horses have to be hitched, harnessed, — what I mean is, tliey 
have to be taken out of the stalls, backed on to the pole and harnessed, 
and such as that, and during that time, fifty or a hundred men could 
take an engine and run quite a piece. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) When you first gave up horses, was j^our at- 
tention called to the question how much longer it took to get to a fire? 

A. No, sir ; I made no particular point of it. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) What orders had 3'ou in regard to running with 
your engine at this time? Did you answer at the first alarm with the 
engine ? 

A. Answered with the hose-carriage at the first alarm. The orders 
wore given, as I have understood, whoever the officer was, he should 
give the alarm, if he saw a fire in the third, fourth or fiftli story, and just 
as soon as he rung the alarm into the City Hall, give it again for a second 
alarm, just as soon as possible, and that would fetch tlie engines. 

Q. Is that order in writing to you? 

A. Oh, no, sir, not to me. 

Q. How did it reach you ? 

A. I have heard it by hearsay, and saw it in the i)apers, I think, that^ 
the notification had been sent to the Chief of Police for the officers to do 
so, or a request, as you might say, from Chief Damrell to the Chief of 
Police, asking that favor. 

Q. In what way did the order come to you not to have the engine an- 
swer the first alarm ? 

A. I heard it as I would be likely to hear anything around the engine 
house. 

Q. Did it come to j-ou as an order? 



45 



A. No, sir, iiot to me. 

Q. Would it come to j^ou if intended for 3-our engine? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. To whom would it come? 

A. It would be likelj' to come to the engine man, to take the engine 
out. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) You go to a fire, if there is only one alarm, 
don't 3'OU ? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) So as to be there M-ith your hose? 

A. Yes, sir ; for instance, if I was disengaged now, and an alarm 
should be struck, and I had to respond to it, for instance, 41 or 56, I 
should go right to that box. 

Q. Can 3'ou tell about the date that order was given, that the engines 
should answer the second alarm ? 

A. No, sir, I cannot. 



WM. A. GREEN, sworn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) You are assistant engineer of the Fire De- 
partment ? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Will you tell the first you knew of the fire on the 9th of No-. 
vember ? 

A. I will state that I answered an alarm of fire from box 52 on the 
evening of the 9th. I was at that time at my residence in Montgomery 
Place, No. 8. I was at the door, waiting until the alarm struck 52, and 
then proceeded as fast as I could to the fire. 

Q. At the first alarm ? 

A. At the first alarm. 

Q. Do you know the time ? 

A. I don't know ; I didn't look. It was a little past 7, I should 
judge. There was a clock right in the room, but I didn't notice it. 

Q. State what you found when you reached the spot. 

A. As I was going down Summer street, it was a little ways from the 
corner of Washington street, I saw a bright light. I hurried down as 
expeditiously as I could, and when I got to the corner of Kingston and 
Summer streets, but previous to that, when I got where I could see it, I 
saw that the upper part of this building was all one mass of fire ; the 
upper story was all one mass of fire. As I went down Kingston street, 
I saw the fire down in the lower part; the building seemed to be on 



46 



fire from top to bottom. The bnilding south of that was taking fire in 
the Mansard roof. 

Q. (B}' Mr. Greene.) Did the fire appear to be working down or 
up? 

A. I can't tell you ; there was a large bod}' of fire rolling out of the 
upper windows, and appeared to be on the roof; and the door on the 
southerly end down Kingston street was very much on fire ; that is, 
through the door, the lower part of the building. 

Q. {Ey Mr. Russell.) What engines and hose were there at that 
time? 

A. I did not see any engines at that time. There was a hose there, 
but I didn't stop to look to see whose, nor what line of hose it was. 

Q. What did you do ? 

A. 1 saw the fire was going into this next building, over across a 
passage-wa}' twelve or fifteen feet wide, probably. I then sung out for 
an axe, and a man speaks up and says, " The axes are not here." I 
looked at him, and saw it was a man I knew, and sa3^s I, " Go into that 
next building and get a joist or something to batter the door with." 
He did so, and got a stone or rock, and we opened the door and went 
up into the top of this building, clear up into the attic. The window- 
frames and window-sash in the upper story were more or less on fii'e. I 
think all of them. I am certain that four of them were more or less on 
fire. There was a lot of sewing-machines lying there ; and I told the 
men who went up with me, Mr. Randall, and two young men, I don't 
know who they were, to take the sewing-machines back, and I looked 
round and found a sink there was there, and we went to drawing water 
and wetting it. Then I sent down word to have a line of hose brought 
right up. In a very short time there was a line of hose brought up into 
the building. In the mean time I had sent for an axe, and we had cut 
the plastering all ofl" on the Mansard, and raked it right down between 
the windows, as I was certain the fire was going to work in under the 
casing of the windows, and so on ; and when the stream came up there, 
I directed them to wash right backwards and forwards the whole length 
of that side of the building. Captain Regan, the gentleman who has 
just gone out of the room, came in with the line, and I says to him, 
"Captain Regan, can you hold this now?" and he says, " I think I 
can." I left then and came out of the building. 
Q. Where did you go next? 

A. I saw that the next building, right directly opposite this build- 
ing, which was not finished, — that is, there were no windows or doors 
in it, although the roof was on, and it was furred more or less, and 
like enough part of it was plastered ; the mechanics had been at work, 



47 

because the shavings and lumber were lying round there, — I saw it 
was catching fire, and I took engine 3's stream up there, and got up on 
the other floor and called for water; but the fire was so intense, so 
hot, that it burned our hose off'. I think four or five of No. 3's men 
went in with the hose. I said to one of them, " We may be cut off"; see 
what chance of retreat there is." We could not get any water ; they 
sung out that the hose was burst. The fire was very intense, and we 
were obliged to leave, and when we went out, we had to go out the back 
way, on some lumber that he had piled across into another new building 
that came in from Chauncey street. 

Q. Was there any want of water at the outset? 

A. I should judge not. We didn't get any water in this line of hose ; 
we got water in the first building I went into. 

Q. Were the engines delayed in getting there by the want of horses? 

A. That is a question I cannot answer. 

Q. Did you see some of them come up ? 

A, No, I did not. I was in the buildings all the time ; I didn't see 
the engines roll in, not one. 

Q. Where did you go after that? 

A. I came up Chauncey street and went down Summer street to the 
fire. 

Q. How soon did you see the Chief; when did you see him first? 

A. I can't give you the time. At a fire I can't tell you whether it 
was fifteen minutes, or half an hour, or still longer. Really, I cannot 
give you an idea ; but I should judge it was in about twenty minutes ; 
it may have been sooner, and may have been longer. 

Q. Was there any chance to get on the roof of the house with the 
hose when you first got there ? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. The fire had got along too far ? 

A. It was all one mass of fire ; it was rolling right out of the win- 
dows ; it was so hot you couldn't live there, sir. 

Q. How was it on the other building? 

A. On the other building, when we raised up those windows to throw 
the water out — we didn't d*are to throw it against the glass — we 
couldn't find any pail ; we had nothing but dippers, that would probably 
hold a quart or so, that the girls used for their coffee or something ; as 
we raised the windows up, it was so hot, it would almost blister us. I 
thought we could hold it until the line came up, and we should probably 
save it; that was our intention. The fire had not got inside then, but 
it was burning around the windows. 

Q. Did you see anything of the use of gunpowder that night? 



48 



A. I saw some gunpowder about there. 

Q. Did you see any building blown up? 

A. I did, sir. 

Q. Where? 

A. I can't give you a correct statement where, with the exception of 
one or two instances. I saw it in a number of instances ; the first time 
I saw any powder burned was in Federal street ; but to designate the 
building, I cannot. 

Q. What was the effect on the building? 

A. It blew the windows and doors out ; it didn't bring the building 
down. 

Q. Didn't it bring the floors down ? 

A. No, sir ; that is, at the time that powder was burned, the fire was 
■coming down so rapidly in front of it, that I didn't go very near it, and 
didn't desire to, because that was the first powder I saw burned, and I 
didn't know what the eflect was going to be. 

Q. Did it do any good ? 

A. My impression is, that it did not. 

Q. Did it do any harm ? 

A. No, sir, I don't think it did. 

Q. Did you see it used in any other instance? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Where was that? 

A. The next place I think was near the corner of Congress and Water 
streets. 

Q. What was the eff'ect there ? 

A. About the same. 

Q. Did you see it used anj'where where it had an)' effect in bringing 
the building down? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Where was that? 

A. In what I term the Merchants' Insurance Building. I don't know 
as that is the name of the building, but it is close to the new post-office. 
It blew the building down ; blew it down handsomely, I think ; that is 
my judgment of it. 

Q. What street was that on? 

A. That was on the corner of Congress and Water streets. That is 
my recollection of it. 

Q. Tliat fell in such a way as to be of some service? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. (By Mr. Greene.) The walls fell in? 

A. I hap[)ened to be b}'' that building a great man}' times when it was 



49 

being raised up and altered, and I was always a little fearful of it. 
There were two partition M'alls running throiigli the centre of it, if I 
recollect, and there were arches through those walls, to go into the dif- 
ferent rooms. The powder was placed right under one of the arches, 
and we happened to find a plank there ; and after the fuse was [)ut in, 
we put the plank over the powder, and the doors were taken out and put 
over the arch, which made a sort of j^ that confined the powder, and 
when the explosion took place, the building was lifted up and came 
down. " 

To go back to Summer street ; I fought the fire on Summer street 
for a- long while; I should judge until about nine o'clock. I went 
into a building, I think on the corner of Otis and Summer street. 
There is where I received my first order from the Chief that I remem- 
ber now. I saw that the fire was getting into the upper part of the 
building, and likewise going into the windows across the streets. 
There was a line in the building, on the third floor, I think, and I 
ran up stairs and saw the fire was getting into the upper part. I or- 
dered them to take it up stairs, and the Chief came to me and said, 
"Green, can you hold this building? can you stop it?" Says I, "If 
3'ou will give me plenty of water, I think I can ; " but before we got up 
there, the fire was so intense, and it went so rapidlj^ that it drove us 
down ; went right over us, almost instantly. Then we kept fightino- 
back, fighting back, until I got on top of Mercantile Hall building. I 
then was determined to make a strenuous fight there ; I thought there 
was a chance to make a strenuous fight there. Or, before we got on the 
Mercantile Hall building, we went into the next store this side of the 
one where the heat drove us out. 1 then made up my mind that I 
would go right up into the upjoer part of that store and keep the fire out. 
There was a blank wall there, and I went up there and saw that the fire 
was working in under the Mansard roof, and I ripped the sheathing all 
down and got a pipe in there. I felt we could make a stand at that 
time, but come to look out back, there was a narrow passage-way 
that led from Otis street, and the first I knew, the flames got into the 
third story below me, and they went across that room nearly as quick as 
I could, and we hurried to get out, and did get out, that is all I can sa}'. 
The next stand I made was in the Mercantile Hall building, and after I 
got my lines laid, a gentleman came to me and said that the Chief Engi- 
neer sent him to me to tell me to take my wagon — that is, there is a 
wagon that carries clothes, and they call it mine — ami go into Dock 
square and get powder, and meet him at the corner of Milk and Con- 
gress streets. I did so, and there is where I received orders to use this 
gunpowder. 

4 



50 

Q. How much did you get? 
A. I got five magazines full. 
Q. How much is that ? 

A. I cau't tell you, because they keep it in quarter casks, and eighths 
and flasks. I went to Mr. Lovell's store, on Washington street, and took 
a magazine from there ; and then I went to Reed & Son's and took 
theirs ; to Mr. Walker's, and took his ; to Mr. Smith's, on Central Wharf, 
and took his ; to Mr. Mahan's, on Long Wharf, and took his, and car- 
ried them up there. 

Q. How did you get into these places ? 

A. Used an axe. 

Q. What were those magazines ? 

A. Copper. 

Q. Can't you give us any idea as to how much there was? 

A. The}' are supposed to hold about a hundred pounds, but whether 
they were all full or not I can't tell. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) Why was the powder at those places? 

A. They are licensed to keep and sell gunpowder. 

Q. And you as an Engineer knew where it was kept? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Where was it used first under your supervision? 

A. In Federal street. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) And the next place was where? 

A. Corner of Congress and Milk streets. 

Q. Was it effectual there? 

A. It didn't bring the building down. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Was it confined in either of those places? 

A. We could not find any lumber to confine it until we got into this 
building, where we used the doors. The building that is owned by the 
Merchants' Insurance Co. was the first one where we had any effectual 
operation, in ray judgment. I don't profess to be competent to judge. 

Q. You used one magazine there ? 

A. No, sir ; at that time, the team had been sent to Chelsea, and we 
put in there four hundred pounds — got four of those barrels — and we 
confined it. 

Q. How did you touch it off? 

A. With a match. 

Q. With a fuse? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q, How long a fuse did you have? 

A. Probablj' rather longer than we needed, for the reason that we 
wanted to know that everybody was out of the way. 



51 



Q. How did 3'ou put the fuse iuto the barrels ? 

A. Iuto the buugs. 

Q. Into each bung? 

A. In most of those barrels that came from the Navy Yard there were 
wooden taps that could be turned out ; there were two or three of those that 
came from the Navy Yard, that didn't have the taps, and those we took 
a weight — it was rather hazardous, rather risky — and knocked the 
heads in. .. 

Q. When did you first get an order to use powder? 

A. To the best of my judgment, it was about 11 o'clock. It may 
have been before or later. 

Q. What time was it first used, to your knowledge? 

A. I can't tell you. At a fire, it is hard for me to tell time. That is, 
I have been with the department a great many years, and after I have 
been to a fire, somebody will say, "It is 4 o'clock, or 3 o'clock," and 
reall}^ I didn't think it was 12. I don't have any idea of time. 

Q. i^y Mr. Greene.) You think the powder was ineflfectual, because 
the arrangements were not properly made? The powder was all right? 

A. We hadn't the materials ; the powder was all right enough, but in 
order to use powder, we want a lumber team, just as much as we want 
powder. 

Q. Therefore, the powder would have been a good agent, if properly 
applied ? 

A. That is my judgment. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) You say 3'ou wanted a lumber team? 

A. Yes, sir ; we want lumber to confine it. 

Q. Did you see it used eff'ectually anywhere else besides in that build- 
ing? 

A. There was a building on the corner of Lindall and Kilby streets, 
where it was used pretty effectually, sir. 

Q. Was that done by the Fire Department? 

A. Well, I suppose I could name the parties who did it. It took us 
some tirue to get this powder confined. We could find nothing 
to confine it. We took the doors, and anything we could get 
hold of in that shop. That building was quite narrow, and what we in- 
tended to do Avas to confine the powder so that it would throw the front 
right out, and that would let the rest of the building down, and we 
blocked up with books, and I don't know whatnot, to confine the powder. 

Q. How large a charge was used there? 

A. I think two barrels, about a hundred pounds ; I am not positive 
about ihat, but that is my impression. 

Q. That building came down pretty thoroughly, didn't it? 



52 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Where was that powder placed ? 

A. In the second stoiy. 

Q. (By Mr. Fiktii.) In Avliat stor}^ was the powder placed in the 
other building, wlieie it was nsed so effectually? 

A. That would be the second story, counting the basement; that was 
a half-basement. 

Q. (By Mr. Eussell.) Did the fire stop there? 

A. The Post Office was right opposite. 

Q. Did it cross the street? 

A. I think it came np on the other side ; it did not cross 

Q. On Kilby street, it was checked just there? 

A. I think it extended a little there. 

Q. The fire burned a little there, but it was stopped by water? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Could tliat have been done, if that tall building had not comedown? 

A. That would be a matter of opinion with me. It wouldn't amount to 
much, any way. 

Q. Tlie building opposite is there now, partly burned, isn't it? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Did you see any other effectual use of powder? 

A. I don't know that I did. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) "What time was it when that building was blown 
up, on the corner of Lindall and Kilby streets? 

A. It was a little after dayliglit. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Was there an}^ trouble from the crowd of 
people? 

A. There was a very great crowd of people. 

Q. Were they much in tlie way of the firemen? 

A. They didn't happen to be, on Summer street, so far as I could see, 
that is, I Avas right down bj' the fire, and had no occasion to go up in the 
crowd, but it would have been considerable of a task for a fireman to go 
through. 

Q. Did you see any trouble that night from gas explosions? 

A. Not on Saturday night. 

Q. How was it on Sunday night? How much do you know about that 
fire? 

A. I never left this fire until between eight and nine o'clock Sunday 
niglit. The detail was made for me to relieve Capt. Smith at one o'clock 
on State street. I went home, but didn't go to bed at all. I laid down 
upon the lounge, and when the alarm of fire was sounded, I was very 
tired and sleepy ; not being in my usual sleeping room, with the gas lit, 



53 

I could hardly wake myself up to find my way out of the room ; when I 
went down the steps, into Province street, another j2;enllemaii being with 
me, we discovered that the man-hole was up. Rcall\', 1 didn't sense it; 
I took it that some desperado had taken it up for somebody to run or 
fall into. I stopped and put it on, and then ran to the fire, and when we 
got there, the building below the corner building, a large stone building, 
was on fire. There were two or three quite large explosions after I ar- 
rived there. 

Q. Do you know the time ?s 

A. No, I do not. 

Q. How long after you heard the alarm was that, probably? 

A. I should suppose it would take me like enough five minutes to stop 
and put on those covers and get to the fire. 

Q. What box did that alarm come from? 

A. Box forty-three, I think. 

Q. Anything about that fire that is worth mentioning? 

A. No, sir ; I don't know of anything. 

Q. Did you happen to see the way in which Hovey's building was 
saved ? 

A. I did not. I was then in Congress street. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) Had you ever had any experience in the use of 
powder ? 

A. No, sir; not in blowing up buildings. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) "Was it ever used in Boston before? 

A. Not to my knowledge. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) Had the question ever been debated in the Board, 
in your hearing, in regard to what was to be done in a certain contingency ? 

A. I have been an Engineer since 1858, and in every instance where 
powder has been used in any city in this country, the Board of Engineers 
have taken measures to ascertain, either by sending some one personally 
or writing to the Chief Engineer, the facts in regard to the use of pow- 
der in blowing up buildings, and it has been discussed and talked over 
a great deal in the Board. 

Q. Well, what was the general testimony on that subject that came to 
your knowledge? 

A. The impression that I have always received from personal obser- 
vation and from letters that we have received is, that it has never re- 
sulted in much good. 

Q. (By Mr. Greene.) This powder, where it was placed in a build- 
ing and proved ineffectual, was not confined at all? 

A. Well, it would be confined temporaril3\ In some places, we would 
find the truckman's skids, and endeavor to get them under a girder, or 



54 

something of that kinri, but we couldn't make them stay ; thej' would be 
either too long or too short. That was the grand trouble we had to con- 
tend with, as fiw as my experience went. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) Do you know anj'thing about powder being put 
into the building on the corner of State and Congress streets, where the 
Webster Bank is ? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. You were not there? 

A. I was not present. I know the building, but I have no idea there 
"was any powder put into it. 

Q. (By Mr. P'irth.) May I inquire what is your present view about 
the use of powder, after seeing what you saw that night? 

A. My present view would be, in a city like Boston, I don't think I 
should ever use it, unless we were deprived of water, and had no other 
resource. 

Q. Should you, or not, think it desirable to be prepared for that emer- 
gency ? 

A. I certainly do. If I had a voice, I would recommend that certain 
parties be drilled or disciplined, in case of em'ergcncy, because we are 
liable to have our water cut off, and then we should have no other re- 
source. This fire happened in a bad locality ; if it had been in any other 
part of the city, powder, in my judgment, might have been much more 
beneficial!}' used than it was in this locality. You take a storehouse 
with merchandise in it, and if 3'ou blow it up, and blow it up effectually, 
you don't blow the building down, you don't lower it but very little, and 
3'ou expose the surroundings of that building more than they were ex- 
posed when the building was in its natural state. That is my judgment. 
You blow the walls down, and the gas-pipes are broken and 3-ou iiave that 
to contend with. That sets the building on fire almost immediately. 
I saw quite a number of instances of that kind, 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Did you see any that night, where gunpowder 
was used ? 

A. Yes, sir ; that is, the building took fire almost immediately after 
the explosion, and I say that was the cause of its taking fire. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) Were the buildings you have in jour mind so 
near to the fire as to have the gas set on fire by the flames? 

A. No, sir ; it must have come from the explosion of the powder, 

Q. Can ycu specify any building where that took place? 

A. 1 think one was on the corner of Milk and Federal streets, or just 
above the corner. 

Q. (By Mr, Russell,) Do you know of any accident caused that 
night b}' the use of powder? 



55 

A, No, sir. 

Q. No person was injured to 3'onr knowledge? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. Have j'ou ever heard of any? 

A. No, sir. 

Q,. (B}^ Mr. Firth.) Did anytliingfly? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. Was that due to the precautions whicli you took? 

A. I know of no person b^ing injured in the least — not a scratch on 
an}^ person. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) People didn't go very far out of the way, did 
they? 

A. When those last charges were put in, they stepped back one hun- 
dred or one hundred and fifty feet. 

Q. (B}'^ Mr. Firth.) You had ropes stretched across the street? 

A. We had, in some instances ; I don't think we had in all instances. 

Q. (B}' Mr. EussELL.) There were no ropes in Kilby street, were 
there ? 

A. I don't remember that there were ; everybody stepped back. 

Q. (B3' Mr. Firth.) Word was passed along? 

A. Yes, sir ; we had quite a strong force of police. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) How long a time elapsed from the time j'ou 
lighted the fuse before the explosion ? 

A. From eight to twelve minutes, probabl3^ We probably cut them 
longer than we need to. We thought that would be the proper way, sir 

Adjourned to Saturday, at 3 o'clock. 



56 



SECOND DAY. 

Saturday, Nov. 30, 1872. 
GEORGE P. BALDWIN, sioorn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) What part of the building that was first burned 
did you occupy? 

A. We occupied the two lower stories and part of the upper loft, except 
that in tliat loft there was a temporary scaffolding or floor, which made 
another floor in that loft. 

Q, Was that for storage? 

A. It was. 

Q. How long had yon occupied that building? 

A. I think it would have been a year the first of January following. 
We occupied a portion, by the way, a year previous, but we took the 
whole of it with the exception of a passage-way which Mr. Young re- 
served for tlie purpose of getting access to the scaffolding which I spoke 
of; with that exception, we had the whole of it last year. 

Q. What was your opinion of the engineer of the building? 

A. I think the engineer is a remarkably faithful and careful person, 
and competent. 

Q. Sober or otherwise? 

A. Temperate, decidedly, I should say. 

Q. If you know anytliing further, I should like to have you state it. 

A. Of course you don't desire that I should state anything except what 
I know positively of my own knowledge. I have no question myself, 
that the theory of the file starting in the basement is a simple fallacy. 
The eno-ineer,' I have no doubt, will testify that he doesn't draw his fires 
in anv way, and that at the time he left the building there was simply 
about a busliel of embers, almost entirely burned out- 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) How long have j^ou occupied the pi-emises? 

A. I tiiink three years the coming first of January. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) What are your numbers? 

A. 84'and85 on Summer street, and my impression is, that the up- 
stairs door was No. 87. 

Q. (By Mr. Greene.) Mr. Young leased of you? 

A. No, sir, Ave leased the premises of Mr. Klous, as also did Mr. 
Youno-, and tlie portion of the loft which we occupied he leased from Mr. 
Klous"; that went with his lease. 

KATE McCAULP:Y, sworn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) What was your position in Mr. Young's store? 

A. Overseer, sir. 

Q. How long had you been there in that position? 

A. Five years next February. 



57 

Q. On the evening of the ninth of November, did you leave the store- 
with Mr. Young? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. When did 3'ou first know of the fire? 

A. At about quarter-past seven, when the alarm was given. 

Q. Where were you ? 

A. On Washington street. 

Q. What did you do? 

A. I went as far as the corner of Tremont Row to meet a young lady- 
friend of mine, and met the engine coming along ; and to get out of the 
crowd I came back again, and came down as far as Winter street, and 
then didn't know tliat it was our place that was on fire, and I walked part 
of the way up Washington street again, in hopes of meeting my friend. 
When I got to the corner of Summer street, I looked down the street 
and then I saw the fire. I thought it was the corner of Chauncey street 
and Summer. There were two brass signs ; Damon & Temple had one, 
and there was a brass sign at the corner of Cliauncey street, of a new firm 
that had gone in there, and I thought I saw the fire coming out over that 
brass sign ; then I thought the fire was in the building occupied by tlie- 
new firm ,at the corner of Chauncey and Summer streets. I stood 
there a while, and finally saw where it was. 

Q. What did you do then ? 

A. I then went down to the Boston Post Office to get Mr. Young's 
address to telegraph for him, and they couldn't find it. They told me 
that nobod}^ knew the number of his box except the gentleman himself. 
I then went down to try to telegraph, and they told me the Chelsea office 
would be closed. 

Q. What time did you go there? 

A. I can't tell you. I did it all and got back again by quarter-past. 
or half-past nine. 

Q. What did Mr. Young say when 3'ou told him? 

A. Mr. Young was not there when I got there, and then I went up tO' 
another bouse in the hack that I went over in after him. 

Q. You don't know anything about the fire except this ? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) In what part of the building was the fire when 
you saw it first? 

A. It was coming out over this brass sign. It was Damon & Temple's 
window, I should say ; but I can't say for certain, I was no nearer thaa 
the corner of Summer street. 

Q. (By Mr. Greene.) Which story was that of the building? 

A. That was the second story. 

Q. Did you see Mr. Young when 3^ou went to Chelsea? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Did he make any remark about the fire ? 

A. He didn't think it was as bad as I said it was. He wanted to know 
if I thought it had reached the upper story. I told him I thought it had by 
that time. 

Q. Had there been any fire on the premises that day? 

A. We didn't light up the gas at all that night. We usually do on Sat- 
urday afternoon, but we didn't that day. 



58 

Q. The building was heated with steam, I believe? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. (By Mr. Kussell.) What time did you leave the building? 

A. I think it was a few minutes after five. 

Q. "What did you tell Mr. Young about the fire being in the upper 
stories when you left? 

A. I told him that the fire was coming out over Damon & Temple's 
window, over the brass sign, and then he said if that was the case that 
our books were gone. That was on the bridge coming over. 

Q. Where were the books kept? 

A. In the third story. Our salesrooms were up two flights, and the 
work-rooms up three and four. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) When you left the store in the afternoon, whom 
did you leave there? 

A. There was Mrs. Young — I couldn't see who was in the pri- 
vate office, I could see her face, and there were three of the boys ; this 
book-keeper, Judson Coffin, and Patrick Cotter ; and Mr. Taggert, I sup- 
pose, was there, for he always closed up, but I didn't see him when he 
■came down stairs through the sales-room. 

Q. Was Mr. Young there? 

A. No, sir, I didn't see him. 

Q. (By Mr. Piiilbiuck.) In which story did you work? 

^. In the two upper stories. 

JUDSON COFFIN, sivorn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) How were joxx employed? 

A. I was employed by A. K. Young & Co. I was clerk there ; 
attended to customers, examined goods, and received goods, and had 
charge of the stock. I looked alter tlie stock in the stock-room and saw 
that it was kept up, — the materials for manufacturing. 

Q. Were you there on the night of the ninth ? 

A. Yes, sir, I was. 

Q. How late? 

A. It was between twenty and twenty-five minutes of six when I left. 

Q. Did you leave at the same time with Mr. Young? 

A. No, sir ; there were four there when I left. 

Q. Who were they ? 

A. Mr. and Mrs. Young, Mr. Bullock, and Mr. Cotter. They were all 
ready to go out as I came out. 

Q. When did you hear of the fire? 

A. I heard the alarn) ; that was the first I heard of it. 

Q. How soon did 3'ou get there ? 

A. I didn't start until the third alarm sounded. I was at th*^ South 
End. I got into a horse car and came down and saw the top of the 
building was on fire. I came down Bedford and went up Kingston street 
as near as I could get to the building, and saw the fiie was all in the back 
part and in the top. I was there when the back wall fell in ; tliat fell in 
first. 

Q. Was there an}^ fire in the lower part at that time? 



r 



59 



A. The fire was all in the back part of the building. I could see fire 
in the windows there, and in the upper stories, too. The building 
seemed to be nearly all on fire inside. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) Did 3'ou see any fire in the lower story? 

A. The fire seemed to be in the lower story, in the back part of the 
building, more than in the front part. 

Q. (B}^ Mr. Cobb.) What time was it when you got there? 

A. I can't say. 

Q. Were there an}'^ engines there? 

A. Oh, yes, sir, they were playing when I got there. 

Q. The building was all on fire? 

A, It seemed to be mostly, inside. 



PATRICK W. COTTER, sicorn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) You are employed by Mr. Young? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. What time did you leave the store on the night of November ninth ? 

A. I think it was between twenty-five and twenty minutes of six. 

Q. Who left with you ? 

A. Mr. and Mrs. Young came down stairs with me. The book-keeper 
left about two or three minutes before. 

Q. Ever^'thing was all right when you left? 

A. Yes, sir, ever^^thing was perfectly right. 

Q. Where were you when j'ou heard the alarm of fire? 

A. I didn't hear any alarm. I live in Charlestown, and went up Main 
street a little ways, and the first I heard of the fire was on Main street, 
about quarter-past eight, I think. 

Q. Did 3'ou ever see any one smoking in that building? 

A. Yes, sir, I have. 

Q. An}' parties in the habit of smoking there ? 

A. The only person I ever saw smoking, except one or two customers 
who came in, was Mr. Young. 

Q. Did j'ou ever see him smoking in the loft? 

A. No, sir, I never did. 

Q. Do you know that his safe was out of order? — wouldn't lock? 

A. I don't know that it was out of order ; I know that it wasn't locked. 
We had a new book-keeper, Mr. Bullock, and he couldn't lock it. I could 
lock it, but it might take me half an hour to unlock it. I used to lock it 
some years ago. It is my impression that it wasn't locked that night, 
because it hadn't been before for some time. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) Had there been any fire used about the premises 
that day ? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. (15y Mr. Greene.) Were Mr. Young's books burned? 

A. 1 understand that they were. Mr. Young carried them over to the 
house, but they were so charred that he couldn't make anything out of 
them. 



60 



BOYD BULLOCK, sworn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Were you a, clerk for Mr. Young? 

A. I was A. K. Young's book-keeper. 

Q. Wliat time did you leave, Nov. ninth? 

A. It was about twenty-five minutes to six. 

Q. Did^'ou leave at the same time Mr.and Mrs. Y^'oung left? 

A. Yes, sir, I left at the same time. 

Q. Was everything all right at the time you left, so far as you knew? 

A. Everything, so far as I saw. 

Q. Was there any lire in the building? 

A. None that 1 know of; not that I am aware of. 

Q. Any used there ? 

A. I never saw any. 

Q. How was it with the engine? 

A. The engine was below in the basement. 

Q. Do you know how that was that night? 

A. I don't ; I wasn't down there. 

Q. Any gas used there that night? 

A. Yes, sir, I had the gas lit in my office. 

Q. Where is the office? 

A. It is on the third floor, I think they called it, near the middle of 
the room. 

Q. Did 3'ou turn that out? 

A. Yes, sir, I turned that out myself. 

Q. What is the condition of ihe safe? 

A. The safe has not been locked since I went there. I think it was an 
old safe ; at least, I could never lock it. The book -keeper who was there 
before me, left before I came there. I told Mr. Young a short time after 
I Avent there I couldn't lock it, and it was open that night when I left. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) How long have 3'ou been employed there? 

A. Six months and a half. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) How early did you go to the fire? 

A. As near as I could sa^^, I was there at twentj' or twenty-five minutes 
past seven. 

Q. What was the condition of the fire then ? 

A. The fire was coming out of the corner of the building, near the top, 
near Bedford street. 

Q. Was there any fire in the basement at the time? 

A. I didn't look ; when I saw it was there, I ran round to the store 
door, 87 Summer street, thinking I could get in there, and save the books. 

Q. Did you see an}' fire in the lower stories? 

A. I never looked. I saw it in the upper stories, just bursting out. 
I didn't look at all below. 

Q. I suppose you Avould have seen it if there had been a great light 
there, wouldn't you? 

A. I suppose 1 would, but the blaze was coming right from the top, 
and m}'^ anxiety was to save the books, and 1 never looked below at all 
— it never crossed my thought. 

Q. How long after you got there did any engine begin to throw water? 

A. I believe it was more than ten minutes before I saw an engine. The 



61 



first thing I saw was a ladder company, coming from Franklin street, I 
think is the name of the street, right opposite. 

Q. How long was that after you got there? 

A.. That was more than ten minutes, as near as I can tell, 

Q. At what rate was that coming, fast or slow? 

A. It was coming slow. I don't remember whetlier there were horses 
or men on it. 

Q,. Did you notice the rate at which the steamer came? 

A. I didn't see a steamer for twenty-five minutes after that, until I was 
driven from the door by a poHceman. After that, there was a man came 
with an axe, and smashed open the door, and I went to help them pull 
down the door, and I made a rush to go upstairs, and a policeman 
caught me here [b^^ the collar], and drove me back ; I said, "I am A. K. 
Young's book-keeper," and he said, " I don't care ; go out ;" and he drove 
me down again. 

Q. Did he give any reasons? 

A. No, sir, he gave no reasons at all. 

Q,. Do 3'ou know who he was ? 

A. No, I don't at all, anything further, only that he was a big man. 

Q,. You were on Summer street? 

A. Yes, sir, in the door. 

Q. (By Mr. Greene.) Were 3'ou attempting to get at the books when 
you were rushing up stairs ? 

A. Yes, sir. I wanted to go up stairs at the same time with this police- 
man who had an axe, but he drove me down. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) Do you think you could have reached the story 
where the books were, if you had gone on? 

A. I think I could, if I had been in time. I sa.w a great light in all parts 
of the house ; I didn't see any smoke or anything like that, and I sup- 
posed it was the reflection of the light from the top of the buildin"-. 

Q. Did the tire seem to be above you, or below you? 

A. No, it seemed above. 

Q. (B}- Mr. Russell.) There was nothing to prevent your gettino- to 
the books, except the police officer? 

A. I don't think there was. I ran np about six steps, I think. There 
are about six steps from the door, and tlien I made a rush up about sis steps 
inside, and then he stopped me. I stood so close to him that he hit me 
with the axe. I wanted to be as close to him as I could, to get up. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbriciv.) What did he do with the axe? 

A. He smashed open the door. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) Did he go up himself? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. (By Mr. Greene.) The policeman went where you were attempt- 
ing to go ? 

A. Yes, sir, and I made a rush up, and he pushed me down. 

Q. Then if he had made an attempt to get the books, he could have 
recovered them ? 

A. I think he could, if he had had some person there to show him 
where the safe was. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) Did anybody go up besides the policeman? 

A. Well, I saw two men around there ; they were firemen. 



62 

Q. How many went up ? 

A. Three or four men ; I can't exactly say, but there seemed to be a 
rush. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbbick.) About what time was this that you attempted 
to make a rush upstairs ? 

A. I suppose it was twenty-five minutes past seven when I arrived, 
and I suppose it was ten minutes after that. I didn't notice particu- 
ticularly the time, but I g'uess it was about that. 

Q. About what time was it when 3fou saw the first engine come ? 

A. It was about twenty minutes to eight ; the first engine I saw was 
coming up from the Hartford and Erie Railway. I didn't go round on to 
the Franlilin street side. 

HENRY A. PIPER, sworn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) You are a member of the firm of Tebbetts, 
Baldwin & Davis? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. How late were 3'ou at the building on the night of Nov. 9th? 

A. I left the building at five minutes past six. 

Q. Did 3'ou go into the basement shortly before? 

A. Yes, sir, I did. 

Q. Did you go to wash your hands? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Was there any gas lighted in the basement? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. You washed j^our hands in the dark ? 

A. I did, sir. 

Q. There is a door from j^our basement to the engine room? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Did you see any light there ? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. Notice an}" smoke? 

A. No, sir. 

Q, You were in a dark room and saw no light there ? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Who left the store with you? 

A. Mr. Tebbetts. 

Q. You locked the door, I believe ? 

A. I locked the door. 

Q. And walked off with ]\Ir. Tebbetts ? 

A. Yes, sir ; we went up the street together. 

Q. What is your engineer's name? 

A. Wni. Blaney. We have no control over that ; he is engaged by Mr. 
Klous, and that is something we have nothing to do with, except we ha . e 
to pay our portion of the expense. 

Q. What sort of a man is he? 

^'1. I always esteemed him an honest man. I think him to be one of 
the most capable men we have ever had in the building ; we have only 
had two, though. 

Q. Is he a sober man? 



63 



A. Yes, sir, to the best of my knowledge and belief. 

Q. Does he draw tlie fire Saturdny nights? 

A. I don't think it was his custom to draw the fires Saturday nights ; 1 
think he used to draw them on Monday morning. 

Q. Have you had any talk with Mr. Young's partner about the case? 

A. Ko, sir, I have had no talk with him ; but Sunday morning after the 
fire, he came to the ruins. I was standing there looking after our safe, 
and lie made the remark to me, why we were there so late Saturday 
night, being Saturday afternoon ; he said, when the}'' left the building, 
it was all lighted up. He sai(1 he left at half-past five. 

Q. (By Mr. Grekne.) You didn't light up at all? 

A. Oh, yes, sir ; on the first fioor. Mr. Tcbbetts, Mr. Davis and my- 
self sat there in the counting room while the boy was sweeping out, — we 
were onh' waiting f(»r him to getthrougli, — and at twenty minutes to six 
I left the two there, Mr. Tebbetts and Mr. Davis, and went down stairs 
and washed my hands. I then went up stairs, and Mr. Davis made the 
remark, " I guess I will go home ;" and he left Mr. Tebbetts and myself 
there, and we sat tliei'e talking until five minutes past six. 1 then said, 
" 1 guess it is time we were going, for I have got to take the train," 
and we came right out together. 

Q. Have j'ou heard anything from Mr. Young or his partner about 
where the fire originated? 

A. No, sir. 



WM. F. HALSALL, sivorn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Where do you live? 

A. 1 leside at 5 Cambridge street. I did reside at number 17 Kings- 
ton street, at the time of the fire. 

Q. How earl}' did 30U see the fire? 

A. I saw the fire when it was in the basement ; that was about twenty 
minutes past seven. 

Q. Was that before the alarm, or after? 

A. It was before the alarm. 

Q. Did you see the tire before 3'ou heard an}' alarm? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Hear any people crying fire? 

A. No, sir. I saw the fire tlu-ough my chamber window. I didn't 
see any one on the street when I went myself on the street and cried 
fire. 

Q. Where was the fire? 

A. It was in the basement of Tebbetts, Baldwin & Davis' store. 

Q. Did you see it in any other room? 

A. No, sir, not until it went up the elevator ; then I saw it in their 
rooms. 

Q. Could you see it go up the elevator? 

A. Yes, sir ; I saw it go up the elevator. 

Q. Where did you see it then? Where did it break out? 

A. It went up the elevator very rapidly, and broke out of the windows 
and went right up to the roof, and seemed to enter the chambers. 



64 



Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) Did the elevator passage have an}^ windows 
in it? 

A. Yes, sir ; on the alley-way between Hatch's store and Tebbetts, 
Baldwin «&; Davis'. 

Q. Was it through those windows that you saw the fire go np the ele- 
vator ? 

A. Yes, sir ; when I saw it in the basement from my chamber window, 
1 inimediatel}' ran down stairs, and ran on the street and cried "• Fire." 
1 didn't know where the box was to give an alarm, because I hadn't 
lived tiicre a great while, and I went into the alle^'-way and saw the fire 
going up the elevator. Jt went very rapidly, the same as a blast would. 

Q. Burning the sides of the elevator as it went up? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. How long after you saw the fire was the alarm given? 

A. That 1 can't say. I don't remember. 

Q. How long after you saw the fire was it before this hose-carriage or 
engine came? 

A. I can't say positively, but it was a very long time. When I went 
down stairs, I noticed by my clock in the chamber that it was twenty- 
four minutes past seven. The clock was about five minutes fast, my wife 
■said. Afier being in tlie street and running round considerable — I was 
very much excited — I went into my chamber and looked out of the 
window, and when I saw a stream play, it was quarter of eight by our 
clock. 

Q. Do you know that that was the first stream? 

A. It was the first stream that I saw, 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) From what side was that stream? 

A. That was from the Kingston street side. 

Q. Do you mean by tliat that it was twenty minutes to eight? 

A. Yes, sir ; I should think it was that time before a stream was put 
•on tlie fire. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) Where was that stream played from? 

A. I can't tell where it was played from. It looked to me like a 
hydrant stream, the way the}' were playing it. It didn't seem like a 
steamer's stieara, but at that time, I was very busily engaged in getting 
men to save some of ni}' things. 

Q. From what street did the}^ appear to play from? 

A. They played from Kingston street, between our house and Mr. 
Hatch's store. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) At that time when 3'ou saw the stream play, 
was the fire through the roof? 

A. Yes, sir. The whole building was enveloped in flames ; it went 
up the elevator and it seemed to go into each chamber as it went up the 
elevator. It went very rapidly up the elevator, and went into each 
chamber ; it seemed to me as though the felevator doors vrere open, and 
it went into the chambers. That is, I could see it through the basement 
windows from my chamber windows, and I made the remark to my wife, 
" That place is on fire," and ran down stairs. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) You are sure there was no fire above that? 

A. Yes, sir ; 1 am positive of it. 

Q. (By Mr. Russkll.) Was it checked at aii}'^ time when it went 
throuffh the elevator? 



65 



A. It seemed to hesitate about the third storj^ but it went very rap- 
idly. It didn't seem more than a minute from the time it was in the 
basement before it went up ; if it had been saturated with something 
inflammable, it couldn't have burned quicker. 

Q. Had you any business in this building ? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. What is your occupation? 

A. I am a sign-painter, on Kilby street. I was burned out with the 
rest. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) Did you know any of the parties in that build- 
ing? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) Did you board in Kingston street? 

A. Yes, sir ; we occupied the two front rooms in the second stor}''. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Have you anything to say about the manage- 
ment of the fire at that point as it came towards Kingston street? 

A. No, sir. 1 was very bus}- at the time, and I suppose they did all 
thej' could. It seemed to me they were not there soon enough. 

Q. Did 3'ou notice the rate at which they came? Was it slow or fast? 

A. They seemed to me very slow ; the men seemed to be very tired. 
I saw three of them who were used up completely. 

Q. On their arrival ? 

A. Soon after their arrival two of them were brought into the house ; 
one man was so bad, we had to give him a great deal of water and some 
brand}-. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) What did he say the trouble was? Did he say 
he was used up by drawing the engine? 

A. He didn't say it was drawing the engine, or whether it was the 
beat, or what it was. It was very warm between the buildings. 

Q. This was after he had been at work upon the fire? 

A. Yes, sir ; a short time afterwards. 

Q. (Bv Mr. Russell.) Do you know what engine he was connected 
with ? 

A. No, sir, I don't remember. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) How long was it before the fire reached 
your house ? 

A. Well, it reached it very soon, but we put it out with water; we 
passed water and put it out. 

Q. Was your house burned finally? 

A. No, sir. My place of business was burned. There was a build- 
ing which was partly finished, and there was a new brick wall which 
separated it from the dwelling-house. The Luthern window caught fire 
two or three times, but we put it out with pails of water. It was a flat 
roof and we passed up water and put it out. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) You think you saved it by the application of 
water ? 

A. Yes, sir, because at that time we couldn't get any stream. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) How long did you have to fight the fire on 
the buihling? 

A. Until about ten o'clock. I left about ten o'clock to go and secure 
5 



66 



my books on Kilby street. I saw how far the fire had got, and was 
considerably excited at the time. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) Were 3'^ou in time for that? 

A. Oh, yes, sir, I saved my books. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) Was the very next building to the one you 
were in burned? 

A. No, sir; the next building to me is a dwelling-house, and the 
next building to that is a new store, or store partly finished. That 
store was partly burned, but the w'ail was new and it saved our dwelling. 
The roof caught fire,' but we put it out by throwing water on it. They 
did eventually get a stream on, and they tlirew a stream on the dwelling- 
house. 

CHARLES B. PRATT, sworn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Did you see this fire before the alarm or 
after ? 

A. I saw it before the alarm. 

Q. At what time? 

A. It was somewhere about quarter-past seven ; within a minute or 
two of that time. 

Q. Where was the fire when 3^ou saw it? 

A. The fire was in the basement of Tebbetts, Baldwin & Davis' 
store. It shone over the alle}'. The alley leads right into the rear of 
their store, and what first attracted our attention we heard the cracking 
of glass. I went from my parlor up into the second story to see some 
gentlemen who were there, who were going to the theatre. The wife of 
the gentleman who just went out was just putting on her bonnet, so 
that I know very accurately what time it was, and we heard this 
cracking, and we went to the window and saw a bright light from those 
two windows that were grated up, the basement windows, and Mr. 
Halsall and my son immediatel}^ went down below and went out and 
went into the court. I stepped up one flight further, — there were 
quite a number of ladies looking out of the window, — so as to give me 
a better view, I remained there and saw the fire go from story to story 
until it got to the attic ; when it got to the third story, it didn't spread 
into the room so rapidly as it did into the others, and I attributed that 
to the elevator doors being closed. It spread rapidl}' after it got to the 
attic, and it spread rapidly in the lower floors. 

Q. Do you know when the engines arrived? 

A. Well, I was on top of my house ; I immediatel}' went and got 
pails, and filled them, and carried them on top of my house. I was on 
top of my house when the first engine came, and when the first water 
was thrown on the fire ; I should think it must have been twenty minutes 
or more before there was au}'^ water thrown. I heard the engine when 
it came up. I was on top of my house, and saw the first stream that 
was played. 

Q. That 3'ou say was about twent}^ minutes after j^ou saw the fire? 

A. I should think it was as much as twenty minutes, if not more. 

Q. How long after you saw tlie fire was the alarm given? 

A. Well, they hallo d "Fire" instantly, as soon as they went out, 



67 



and they spoke to some one who said he knew where the box was and he 
would give the alarm. I don't know who the person was, and can't tell. 
I should think it was within a minute or two afterwards I heard the first 
alarm struck, but I was going up and down from the roof of my house 
to my tank filling pails, and getting them in readiness in case I needed 
them. 

Q. Did you notice whether the steamer came slow or fast ? 

A. I didn't. I wasn't where I could see. 

Q. "Were you at work packing goods ? 

A. No, sir, I didn't pack up any ; that is not my motto. I had rather 
put out a fire than pack up mf goods ; I never packed, nor took a thing 
out of m}^ house, although I hadn't a cent of insurance. I stood on top 
of my house and put out the fire b}"" the use of pails, probably twenty 
times, when it caught on top ; if it hadn't been for that, I probably 
shouldn't have had a home there now. 

Q. Did 3^ou see the firemen do anything in your house that you 
objected to? 

A. I saw a fireman that I moved from his quarters, I didn't like to 
have him where he was sitting. He had been sitting there some time. 

ALONZO PRATT, sworn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) You are a salesman of Burr, Taft & Co., on 
Franklin street? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. What is your father's business ? 

A. He is overseer in a manufacturing establishment. 

Q. About what time did you first see the fire? 

A. As near as I could judge, it was quarter-past seven. It may have 
been a minute before or a minute after. 

Q. Were you getting ready to go to the play ? 

A. No, sir, but I was in the room with Mr. Halsall and his wife, who 
were getting ready to go. He looked out of the window and saw the 
fire, or his wife, I don't remember which it was, but I know Mr. Halsall 
and myself started and went into the alley-way between the two stores. 

Q. Where was the fire when 3'ou first saw it ? 

A. In the basement near the elevator, just a little towards Kingston 
street from the elevator. 

Q. Did you look down through the grating ? 

A. Yes, sir, through the grated window on the side. 

Q. As you looked through the grated window, what did you see? 

A. Well, the bulk of the fire, that is, the heaviest part of the fire, 
seemed to be right near the window, within a few feet, in the basement. 

Q. Was there any fire in the stories above ? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. Then what did you see after that? 

A. Within a minute or two — you know how excited a person gets, 
he can't tell hardly about time — but within a few minutes, the fire 
broke through the elevator wall. Mr. Halsall and myself were in the 
alley-way, and as it started and went up the elevator we backed out and 
went across the street and went into our house. 



68 

Q. When did the first steamer come ? 

A. I should think it was about half-past seven, from that to twenty- 
five minutes to eight, before any steamer got there. 

Q. Tlirough what street? 

A. It came up Kingston and Bedford. 

Q. Did 3'ou notice whether it came fast or slow ? 

A. No, sir, I didn't notice particularly about that. 

Q. How soon did they get the first water on the fire? 

A. I should think it was twenty minutes or quarter to eight ; it 
seemed a very long time. 

Q. How long after you saw the fire was the first alarm given ? 

A. I can't tell you anything about that, because I didn't hear it. 

Q. you cried ^' Fire"? 

A. We cried '' Fire ;" if I had known how to give the alarm, I should 
have gone off myself and given one. 

Q. State anything you saw the firemen do in your house. 

A. When I came down into the parlors, ^ — all our ladies had left the 
house and there was no one but myself and father in the house. — I saw 
two firemen, or men who had firemen's badges on, who had a box out of 
a bureau in the back parlor, and I took a silver fruit knife away from 
one of them, and it seems we lost a gold pen during the evening, but I 
don't know whether they took it or not. It was in the bureau before 
the fire ; that was the place where it was usuall}^ kept. 

Q. Do you know what company they belonged to? 

A. I don't. I just told them to drop that, and took this knife from 
them, and shut the drawer up, and ordered them out of the house. I 
didn't notice particularly what badge they had on, and don't remember 
what it was ; that is what I should have done. 

Q. (By Mr. Fhilbrick.) What time was that? 

A. It was some time after midnight. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) That was when your house was out of danger? 

A. Well, partially so, although the fire had worked around through Mr. 
Klous' store, and we apprehended some danger from there. 

Q. What was the box they had? 

A. It was an ordinary pasteboard box, taken out of a bureau drawer. 

Q. (By Mr. Greene.) What did they say when you took the things 
away from them ? 

A. They didn't say anything. 

Q. Gave them up? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) Did they leave the house when you told them to 
go? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. How near were you when you looked into the basement? 

A. Within three feet of the flames ; standing as near to the window 
as I dared to go. 

Q. (By Mr. Fhilbrick.) Did the flames come out through the win- 
dow? 

A. No, sir, not while we were there. It seemed to be working towards 
the alley-way ; there seemed to be a strong draught that way. The in- 
stant it went into the elevator, it ran up as though there had been a train 



69 



of powder laid there. I suppose on account of the elevator being well 
greased or oiled. 

DANIEL W. CHILDS, sicorn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) On the night of Nov. 9th, 3'ou were on out- 
side duty, weren't you ? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. What time did you hear the alarm? 

A. It was about twenty mii\utes past seven. 

Q. Were you then at the station house number 2 ? 

A. I was, sir. 

Q. Did 3-ou look at the clock? 

A. Yes, sir, I looked at the clock. 

Q. Did you go to the fire immediately ? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. When you got there what did you see ? 

A. I got there just as the insurance wagon drove into Summer street, 
and iramediatel}' afterwards came through Otis street into Summer, hook 
and ladder company No. 1. I went immediately to the insurance wagon, 
and asked the driver for a line, took it out, called some officers of our own 
station who were there, and roped off Summer street, and drove the 
crowd back. 

Q. Did you have officers there to man the ropes? 

A. I did, sir. I then went to the end of the hook and ladder carriage 
and took one of their ladder ropes, and roped off Otis street. 

Q. Did 3'ou send any message to your station ? 

A. As soon as I got Otis street and Summer street roped off, I sent 
an officer to the station to ask Lieut. Burleigh if he wouldn't send me all 
the officers he could. 

Q. How soon did you send that message? 

A. Within ten minutes after I got there, and then I don't think it was 
five minutes after that, I sent Sergeant Bates to Lieut. Burleigh, to ask 
him if he wouldn't telegraph the different stations to send me all the 
help they could ; it might have been five minutes afterwards, but I don't 
think it was over that, and I got help very promptly. 

Q. How many men did you get? 

A. I can't tell you the exact number. In less than three-quarters of 
an hour after that, I had sixty men. 

Q. Where were the men under your immediate charge? 

A. Tliey were in Summer street and in Otis street, and through Frank- 
lin and Devonshire streets. 

Q. Where were Sergeant Foster's gang? 

A. Sergeant Foster had a gang on the lower side of Summer street, 
and followed the fire back down through Federal and High streets, and 
that vicinity. 

Q. And Sergeant Bates ? 

A. Sergeant Bates followed up Summer street until along in the morn- 
ing, after it got to be nearly two o'clock, and then he took the north side 
of Water street. 

Q. How long were you there ? 



70 

A. I was there until five o'clock Sunday afternoon. 

Q. You had no relief until then ? 

A. I had no relief until the fire was out. 

Q. Did you get anything to eat in that time? 

A. Yes, sir, I did. 

Q. The police officers didn't sufter for want of food? 

A. I relieved them as much a? I could, through orders from the Chief, 
and directed them to go to the Parker House and get what they could to 
eat ; relieved them part at a time. 

Q. Did you notice whether the steamers came up fast or slow? 

A. They came slow. There was but one steamer that I saw, when I 
got there. I understand there was one on the lower side, but that is 
where I didn't go. There was one below me, down on the corner of 
Bedford and Kingston streets. That was No. 7, I think. I can't say 
whether there were any others there or not. 

Q. How long before any other came u)j, so that you could see it? 

A. I think it was five minutes before I s^.w the second steamer on 
this side. 

Q. What sort of a gang did they have — men or boys? 

A. Men and boys together. 

Q. Were they running? 

A. They were on a slow run : about a trot. The hook and ladder 
carriage was dragged by men. That was the second thing I saw there 
besides steamer 4. I think that was there, and just getting to work 
when I sfot there. 



FREDERICK HOFFMAN, sivorn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) You are an officer of what station? 

A. Station 4. 

Q. What time did you hear the alarm of this fire ? 

A. I didn't hear any alarm at all that night. 

Q. What do you know about the fire ? 

A. I was standing at the corner of Essex and Lincoln streets, and 
saw ofticer Page, who gave the alarm, on the opposite corner with 
officer Farwell. I was talking with a man and left him to go down 
Lincoln street towards officer Page, when this man I had been talking 
with called out to me and attracted my attention, and I looked round 
and saw there was a fire. At that time I heard some boys up the street 
halloing " Fire," and I ran up, and when I got to the corner of Summer 
and Bedford streets, officer Page was there, and had just closed the box 
after giving the alarm. Then I ran round the Freeman's Bank at the 
corner of Kingston street, and saw the fire was above the second story, 
and came back and told them to ring the second alarm. I went back 
and met engineer Regan there, and the driver of the insurance wagon. 
They were cutting away the front door. Engineer Regan told me to go 
round and ring in the second alarm. I went round and told officer 
Page to ring the alarm, and then I ^yent back to the fire and helped 
clear Kingston street. 

Q. How late did you stay ? 



71 

A. I stfived until two o'clock ; then I went to the station-house. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) What time did you see them breaking the 
door down ? 

A. I should think it was about twenty minutes past seven. It might 
have been twenty-five, I can't saj-, because everything was excitement 
there. I didn't look at my watch. 

Q. What door was it the}' broke down? 

A. It was the front door of the building the fire broke out in. They 
gave up trj'ing to cut in the front door and went round to the rear, 
right in the alley-way from Kingston street. 

Q. Did you see any fire in Summer street? 
. A. Yes, sir, I could see the fire through the basement windows. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) Was there any fire above the basement? 

A. There was fire above the basement in the rear. I couldn't see 
it through the front part of the building. When I got back there from 
the box, before there was any answer on the bells at all, I could see the 
flames coming out of the second and third story windows in the rear. 

Q. At your first view of the building, where was the fire? 

A. The fire was in the rear of the building, coming out of the 
windows. When I got to the corner of Lincoln and Bedford streets, 
there was a low house, and I could look right across to the building, and 
there was where I saw the flames breaking out through the windows. 

Q. From what stories? 

A. From the second and third stories. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) Was there any fire above? 

A. ;Not at that time ; very shortly after that it came out of the roof. 

Q. Then, I understand 30U, when 30U got there on Summer street 
j'on could see no fire except through the basement windows? 

A. No, sir. 

MOSES S. MOULTON, szvom. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) You are an oflScer at station 4 ? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Give us an outline of your beat. 

A. Commencing at the corner of Washington street and Harvard 
street, running on the south side of Harvard street to Soutli street, 
thence by South street to the Boston & Albany Railroad track to the 
corner of Washington and Indiana street, and then from the corner of 
Indiana street and Washington street, by Washington street to the 
corner of Harvard street, the first starting-point. 

Q. Where were you when the fire first broke out? 

A. I was sitting in my kitchen, taking my tea. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) Where do you live? 

A. No. 2 Columbia street. I heard the outcry of "Fire," and stepped 
to the door, and saw it, as soon as I stepped to the front door, bursting 
out of tlie building. 

Q. What part of the building? 

A. On the south side of the building, this building being on the 
corner of Kingston and Suuimer streets. 



72 

Q. The upper stories or lower? 

A. I can't exactly say, but I should saj^ it seemed to be about half- 
way up. The body of the fire seemed to be about half-way from the top 
of the building to the bottom. 

Q. Did you notice whether there was any fire in the basement or not? 

A. I can't tell, I didn't go near it. I ran without hat or coat to box 
52, at the corner of Kingston and Bedford, and there found three 
oflflcers who had just arrived there, giving the alarm. Then I went back 
to the house and looked out for my own things. 

Q. How soon after that did you see any engines? 

A. I can't say. I was considerably alarmed about my people in the 
house. I had twenty families in the house that I seemed to be re- 
sponsible for. They came to me for advice, and I had them there from 
that time until twelve o'clock asking me questions, what I thought it 
would be best for them to do, and I told them I thought it would be best 
for them to pack up in case the house was likely to go. 

BENJAMIN F. FARWELL, sworn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) You are an officer of the 4th station? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. The boundaries of j^our beat are Lincoln, Essex, Kingston, Sum- 
mer, Chauncey, and Harrison avenue? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. What time did j^ou pass Kingston street on the night of the fire? 

A. I went through Kingston street about a quarter or twenty minutes 
past six o'clock, to the best of my judgment. 

Q. You were distributing letters, weren't you? 

A. I managed to distribute at different places. 

Q. When did you pass Kingston street again? 

A. About five minutes past seven ; five to ten minutes, I should think. 
I came through Edinborough street, and from Edinborough into Essex 
and down Kingston street, a little past seven o'clock. 

Q. Did you see any trouble then ? 

A. I saw nothing then. I stopped on the corner and saw nothing 
then. 

Q. Were j^ou on Lincoln street when you saw the fire ? 

A. I was. 

Q. What were you doing then ? 

A. There was a crowd of boys ; it w^as Saturday night, and from the 
"Palace" as it is called, or Lincoln block, there was a crowd of quite 
large boys running through the street, and I went into the middle of the 
street and dispersed them. There were some dozen or fifteen, more or 
less. I saw the fire when I got into the middle of the street. 

Q. What did 3'ou do then ? 

A. I went as quick as I could to the box at the corner of Bedford 
and Lincoln streets. 

Q. Whom did you find at the box? 

A. John M. Page. 

Q. Giving the alarm? 



73 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. What time was that? 

A. Between fifteen and twenty minutes past seven, as near as I can 
judge. 

EUGENE McCARTY, sivorn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) You are an officer of the 4th station? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. You were on patrol on the night of the 9th of November? 

A. Yes, sir, I was on duty that night ; at six o'clock I went on. 

Q, Where were you when you heard the alarm ? 

A. I was standing on the corner of South and Kneeland streets. 

Q. AVhat time? 

A. Set it at fifteen or twent}' minutes past seven. 

Q. Did vou run to the fire ? 

A. I did. 

Q. How long did it take you ? 

A. I should think all of three to five minutes. 

Q. Where was the fire when you got to the building? 

A. The fire was breaking out of the upper story and roof on the cor- 
ner of the passage-way running from Kingston street, and coming out of 
the side windows. 

Q. Was there any fire below? 

A. In the rear there was. You could look through and see the fire, 
but it didn't seem to break out there. 

Q. Were there any firemen there? 

A. The firemen were laying the hose through Kingston street. 
Shortly after I arrived, I saw the hose in the street ; there was no water 
in the hose. 

Q. You went to work keeping the people back? 

A. I went to work to clear the street. I got some officers and cleared 
the street. 

Q. Do you know when the engines came? 

A. I drove the people back as far as Bedford street, and there was a 
steamer at the corner of Bedford and Kingston street. 

Q. What time was that? 

A. Perhaps that was ten minutes after I arrived at the fire. 

■JAMES QUINN, sioorn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) You are Deputy Chief of Police? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Tell us all you know of the beginning of this fire — the first thing 
you know about it, and what you did. 

A. The first of my getting to the fire, I think it was a few minutes 
past eight o'clock. I didn't go down until the general alarm was given. 
The fire was then in Tebbetts & Baldwin's. I remained there until I 
saw the fire cross to Otis street, on the corner of Otis and Summer. 

Q. Will you tell us what the police detail was? 



74 

A. I then sent immediately to tlie office and requested them to tele- 
graph to the stations to send all the available men the}- could spare to 
meet me at the corner of Devonshire and Franklin streets. I went 
immediately there, and then we commenced to rope in to press the peo- 
ple back, and we roped in at Arch street and Franklin ; we roped in 
Devonshire and Franklin, and roped in afterwards at the end of Frank- 
lin on that side. The men were round on the south side previous to that. 
"We have a certain number of officers who are detailed to attend fires at 
the first alarm, and they were at the south side attending to their duty. 
We then had a few men to spare, and I threw them out as scouts, from 
the fact that I was satisfied, being a large fire, there would be more or 
less pilfering, with directions to take any man they caught with property, 
and if he couldn't give an account of himself, lock him up ; and that 
order was carried out verj- faithfully. We locked up some four hundred 
and fifty, and there were some three hundred more arrested who were re- 
leased on their giving the account, which most of them gave that night, 
that the goods were given to them. 

Q. Were there any convictions ? 

A. I think there were, in the Highlands ; I think some of them were 
arraigned at the Highlands. I shouldn't want to say certain ; but my 
impression is that they were. 

Q. Was the police line held? 

A. It wasn't broken during the time I was there. I got wet there 
and went home to make a change, and returned. I got badly wet in 
Summer street, but I went on making these arrangements. I assisted 
in getting along the hose, the hose burst, and I got pretty well wet. 

Q. Can you tell what detachments were made from the several sta- 
tions ? 

A. I can't, but the Chief can ; I think the Chief has the list, sir. 

Q, Have you anything further that you can tell about the manage- 
ment of the fire while you were there? 

A. Well, gentlemen, when I first got there, I found the buildings 
were pretty well enveloped in flames. I was with an old friend, Joseph 
L. Drew, one of the Assessors ; he was my third officer in the depart- 
ment for some years, and we got into position in front of Otis street for 
a full survey, and returned back to the building of Tebbetts, Baldwin & 
Davis. I kept my eye upon that corner, for I was satisfied in my own 
mind that if the fire reached that roof, it would be almost impossible for 
them to check it. When the fire took upon that roof, I made the remark 
to Mr. Drew, said I, "You will see the largest fire Boston has ever 
witnessed to-night. It has got into that roof, and I don't see any pos- 
sible means now of their checking it." That was a point that I think 
above all others should have been secured. I remained until the fire 
(and it was very rapid in its course) passed over and came up into Devon- 
shire street ; that is, after I had made this allusion to him, that this 
fire would be the largest fire Boston had ever seen ; then I passed down 
and saw that it had crossed Devonshire street. I then went round to 
Summer street. There were four engines stationed then at the reservoir 
on Summer street. I then passed round and went up to High street, 
stopped at Stedman's crockery store, and saw there were parties in 
their store. I continued round and went down Federal street ; the fire 



75 



was then going to the leeward very rapidly. I saw it from Milton place, 
and also from Sullivan place. When I struck Franklin street, there were 
four engines there. I have no doubt (I speak very candidh', gentle- 
men), I have no doubt that Capt. Damrell did everything he could do, 
under the circumstances, but men have different views in regard to con- 
tending against a fire to prevent its spreading. In Franklin street, my 
idea would have been to establish a base of operations. There should 
have been a flanking movement made. There is a reservoir at the head 
of Franklin; passing down Franklin three hundred feet, there is another 
at the corner of Hawley strefit ; and passing down P'ranklin until you 
get to the corner of Devonshire, there is another; passing round the 
end of Franklin to the corner of Channing street, you find another. 
These reservoirs will hold about four hundred hogsheads of water each. 
I am not taking into consideration the hydrants. I think the one on the 
corner of Franklin and Hawley streets is smaller than the others, but 
they are all fed by the same main. I recollect when the reservoirs were 
located, for I went round with Capt. Barnicoat, and I know that when 
the question came up about locating them, it was an immense number 
to be located in one street, but on account of the large property in that 
neighborhood, they thought it was a verj^ important matter. I think 
there should have been a constant pressure of the force in Franklin 
street, with five engines to each reservoir, fed b}'' a four-inch main from 
the Cochituate, together with the hydrants. I consider that there would 
have been a good chance to check the fire there in that way. That point 
passed, there was not so good an opportunit}^, the streets being narrow. 
Franklin street, you recollect, was very wide, and on the north side, the 
roofs were not very high ; but I think a concentration could have been 
accomplished at that time, when the fire reached there, because we had 
additional force all around, and I was in hopes that something of the 
kind would be done. Capt. Damrell spoke to me at the time I was there, 
and asked me if I would look round and see if there wasn't some place 
that it would be advisable for us to blow up, and I told him I didn't 
know of a place in that locality where it would be convenient to do it. 

Q. At what time did he ask you that question ? 

A. I can't say definitel}', but I think it must have been somewhere 
between nine and ten o'clock. It must have been probably half-past 
nine, as near as I can guess. I took no note of the time, particularly. 

Q. You thought then there was no place where gunpowder could be 
used to advantage? 

A. I didn't, after you passed that point. 

Q. Your opinion is the same now, is it? 

A. It is. With regard to the means of extinguishing fires, — I make 
an allusion to it ; I don't know as it will be of an}' consequence, — if a 
fire should take place in a certain locality, we have not the means to-day 
of reaching it, if it should break out in the top of a building. We are 
deficient in that respect. For years, the highest ladder was sixty feet, 
and, with the additional splice that is now used, it does not extend over 
seventy feet. If a fire took place in the Parker House, for instance, 
there is no possible means of reaching the top of the building, or even 
its coving. I saw them raise a spliced ladder at tiie State street fire, 
and I think it fell short of the coving. When I was in the Board of 



76 

Engineers — I was in the department some twenty-five years — I saw 
they were building iiouses five, six, and seven stories high, and I said 
to Ca|)t. Barnicoat, at the time, tliat I thought w^e ought to keep up with 
the times; that people were building very high, and that our means 
were not suflicient to meet it. I said, " This is a progressive age in 
which we live, and we should keep up with the times. If they build 
these six, seven, and eight story buildings, we have no means of reach- 
ing the top in case of fire ; " but the old gentleman's idea was, that if 
they were too high, they would burn down so low that we could reach 
them. I said 1 would not put any man in a place I wouldn't be 
willing to go in myself. You can't control a fire by getting under it, 
any way ; to make water eff'ective, you have got to get above the fire, 
and had there been any means of going above that State street block, 
that fire would have been subdued in a very short time. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) Your idea would be to throw the water down? 

A. To pour it right down on the fire. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Do you think that was done in the case of the 
fire on the 9th, as far as it could be? Was anything wanting in the de- 
partment in regard to going on the roofs of buildings and throwing 
water down ? 

A. That was not of much use after the fire crossed Otis street, in that 
direction. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) What effort did you see made to stop the 
fire in the building at the corner of Otis and Summer streets? 

A. I saw two streams raised from the reservoir. There were two 
engines stationed there, but neither of the streams went above the third 
story. 

Q. There was no hose carried up? 

A. I saw none carried up. 

Q. Was there any effort made to carry the hose up to stop that build- 
ing from burning, by wetting the top of it? 

A. Well, sir ; we ought to have a class of engines that would throw 
the water to the roof of that building without much trouble. I was 
somewhat surprised that the water wasn't more effective that night ; 
that the streams didn't go up to the top of the building ; I was quite 
surprised. 1 thought, when they first raised the stream, that it would 
accomplish the object and extinguish the fire, but I found it didn't go 
above the third story. 

Q. Was there any opportunity to carry the hose up? 

A. Certainly ; break the door open and carry the hose up to the top. 

Q. Was there time and opportunity to have done that? 

A. Yes, sir, plenty of time. 

Q. Didn't it occur to you at the time that it ought to have been done? 

A. To tell you the truth, gentlemen, m}'' idea always in fighting a fire 
was to get into the building ; to get up to the top of it ; that was my 
rule always ; never to fight a fire from the sti-eet. You must get inside 
of the l)uilding, if you want to be eff'ective. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) Go where the fire is? 

A. Go into the building to get at it. 

Q. (By Mr. Russkll.) Could that have been done that night, without 
too great risk of human life ? 



77 

A. I think it could on the corner of Otis street. I didn't get there 
till after the general alarm was given, a few minutes past eight. The first 
alarm was given somewhere about twenty-five minutes past seven. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) About what time was it you saw the fire 
cross Summer street? 

A. I can't tell the time, because I took no note of time ; but I had 
been there some little time before it crossed Summer street. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) You speak of a certain class of engines which 
we ought to have, to throw water to the top of a high building — what 
are they? ^ 

A. The engines didn't work so well as I have usually seen them ; that 
is, they didn't throw a stream up to that height which I have been ac- 
customed to see them throw. 

Q. What was the cause of that? 

-4. Probably the wind might have deflected the stream ; then the 
question is, whether they had steam enough to carry the stream to that 
position. That is a question that I can't answer, for I didn't examine 
the engines ; the wind might have broke down its force. 

Q. Then it was not another class of engines you had in 3'our mind? 

A. Not at all. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Do you know anything about the use of gun- 
powder that night? 

A. I know it was used. 

Q. Did you see it used ? 

A. I was down on Congress street, when Mr. George O. Carpenter 
told me he was using it, and that he had a charge then in the building 
on the corner of Bath and Water streets. 

Q. Did you see any buildings blown up? 

A. I didn't see any blown up. 

Q. Have 3-ou had any experience in the use of gunpowder at fires? 

A. I have not ; but I was in Chicago shortly after that fire, four days 
afterwards, and I made some inquiry there abolit the manner of blow- 
ing up buildings, among the officers of the army, and I have also read 
other statements in connection with it, but I never have seen it used. 

Q. How many years were 3'ou on the Board of Engineers? 

A. I think I was in the Board about two years only. I was in the 
department about twenty-five years. I was foreman of the Old North 
three years, I was foreman of No. 13 three years, and No. 10 seven 
years, and an active member of the department about twenty-five years. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) Did you see the fire spread down Summer 
street? 

A. No, sir, I didn't ; I was on this side ; after that, I was at the office 
when the inquiry came for powder, and by request of the Chief, I went 
to Mr. Reed's, Mr. Brown's, and other places. As I said, there was an 
application made for powder, and it was said they were going to try the 
experiment of blowing up ; and I then spoke of taking one of the pow- 
der-boats and bringing her to Central wharf, as the best movement that 
could he made. I was kept pretty busy at the different points. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) Did Mr. Carpenter tell you under whose orders 
he was acting ? 

A. He told me that he was acting under the orders of the Chief. 



78 

• 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) Were you aware of anything in regard to the 
faihire of the supply of water which prevented the streams going so 
high as you anticipated? 

A. I didn't look into that matter. I attributed it at that time to the 
wind, more than anything else. "When I was at my house, Capt. 
Damrell sent an officer there for me to take a hundred policemen (that 
was after I went home to make a shift), and open the first carpet 
store in the neighborhood of the fire, and take carpets and go on top of 
the roofs and keep them wet. I had, as I stated to Mr. Hersey, no 
authority to control the department ; the Chief of the department was 
the man through whom the order should come, and especially in an 
order of that kind, I should want the authority. In fact, I had no 
authority to do it ; the order should have gone to the Chief, and the 
■order sliould have been a written order, as it was one of some moment. 
In regard to taking ofl' a hundred men, our department is divided into 
three parts ; one division goes on duty at eight o'clock in the morning, 
and is relieved at six o'clock by the second division, and they are on 
duty until one o'clock, when they are relieved by the third division, and 
the third division remain on duty until eight o'clock in the morning, when 
the}' are relieved by the first division. It would have been impossible, 
as I stated to him, for me to have collected that number of men at the 
fire without completely throwing everything open ; in fact, the men were 
scattered in every direction, and it would have been impossible to get 
one hundred men, or even fifty, for that purpose. The area that they 
-covered in their line of duty was such, that they would have had to 
abandon it. They were constantly at work pressing the people back, 
to give the firemen an opportunity to work, and also protecting the 
lives of people. I myself was obliged to take one man in Franklin 
street by the collar and bring him back. He was foolhardy, as some 
men are apt to be in cases of that kind. The men were kept very busy, 
and it would have been impossible to comply with that order. Mr. 
Hersey was the party .who brought the order to my house. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Nothing was done in pursuance of that order? 

A~ No, sir, not in that direction. I couldn't have accomplished it 
even if I had had the authorit}^. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) To what conclusion did you come, from what you 
learned at Chicago, in regard to the use of powder? 

A. To tell you the truth, I didn't come to any definite conclusion with 
regard to it, for it is one of those questions where a great many things 
have to be considered. There are certain buildings which are blown up 
where the ingredients they contain are such, as, for instance, phosphorus, 
as would be quickly ignited. It is one of those subjects that 1 should 
want to give considerable attention to before forming an opinion. Then, 
again, there are buildings where cotton would be exposed. I have seen 
a building take fire by falling in, in consequence of the contents being 
exposed to the air. For instance, there was the store of Lewis Bros., in 
Broad street. I was in the department when that fell, and from the na- 
ture of the stock, I felt very certain that we should have a fire, and told 
Capt. Burnicoat so. A portion of the department was called out, and 
in some twenty minutes after the building fell, the ruins were in flames, 
and we were kept at work there for two nights. There was a large 



79 



quantity of phosphorus, and other inflammable material, which ignited 
spontaneously. I have no doubt that Capt. Damrell did the best he 
could, under the circumstances. 

SEMAN KLOUS, sworn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) You owned this building in which the fire took 
place ? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Did you the land? 

A. I own the land. " 

Q. What were the dimensions of this building? 

A. Fifty feet on Summer street by one hundred in depth. I have the 
dimensions here: " Store corner of Summer and Kingston streets: — 
Lot, 50 X 100 feet; square feet 5,021|, four stories attic; outside wall 
next to street, 2J- feet ; foundation under stone and iron columns of 
block granite, 4X5 feet, and 20 inches thick ; foundation under par- 
tition walls of granite, 3X4, and 20 inches thick ; stone posts for iron 
columns, 2 X IJ-; outside walls, 20 inches thick; brick partition wall, 
20 inches in basement, 16 inches to top of second chamber floor, 12 
inches for the balance to roof; iron columns in basement 10 inches di- 
ameter, 1^ inches shell, in stone 9 inches, 1^ shell ; first chamber 8 inches, 
1|- shell ; second chamber 8 in, 1^ shell ; outside columns 12 inches square, 
1^ shell ; in the three first stories the timbers were 3 X 14 inch, balance 
3 X 12 ; trimmers, 8 X 14 ; all floors and walls, well tied together; 
Mansard roof, covered with tar and gravel, Mr. Blaney, engineer, resides 
in Charlestown ; been employed about three j^ears, very industrious, care- 
ful man. Occupants, Tebbetts, Baldwin & Davis, dry goods ; Damon 
Temple and Co. neck ties ; Alex. K. Young and Co. hoop skirts." I 
have a diagram of the lot. [_See Diagram, page 81.] 

Q Does that show where the boiler and engine were? 

A. Yes, sir, everything is marked- down. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) Were there any partitions in the basement? 

A. That 1 don't know. I don't remember I had my book-keeper go 
through with all the dimensions origiuall}'. 

Q. Who was the architect? 

A. John R. Hall, of Boston. 

Q. When was it built ? 

A. I think in 1866. That is my impression. 

Q. You know the character of the engineer, Mr. Blaney, personally? 

A. I don't know so much as Mr. Daggett. He speaks of him in the 
veiy highest terms, as being a sober, honest, and upright man, and I 
should say he is all that, because Mr. Daggett would not keep him un- 
less he was strictly temperate. 

LYMAN DAGGETT, sworn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) You had charge of this building? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Will you give us the character of the engineer? 

A. I consider him a very careful, very industrious, watchful man. 



80 



Q. Was he a sober man or otherwise? 

A. Sober. 

Q. You wouldn't be likely to keep him, if he wasn't? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. Was he in the habit of drawing his fires on Saturday night? 

A. I can only give his own answer in regard to that. He says he has 
not drawn his fires since last August. 

Q. You have seen this account of the building that Mr. Klous brought 
in — is that all correct? 

A. Well, I made it myself. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) Were there any partitions in the basement 
story ? 

A. Nothing only what is represented here, except a partition here 
that was as high, perhaps, as tliis [referring to the one in the room] ; 
and then glass over that ; what they used for a packing-room. 

Q. A half-high partition, with a glass top? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. How was that used ? 

A. Tebbetts, Baldwin & Davis used it as a packing-room. 

Q. How were the contents generally left? What was the appearance 
of the room — paclting-boxes and material scattered about? 

A. Yes, sir, but usually kept in very good order ; that is my recollec- 
tion of it. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) Was there anything about the engine-room that 
would be likely to take fire? 

A. I never saw anything ; I never apprehended any danger, because 
I was there frequently, and sometimes just at night, and in the morning, 
and all times of day, and at night ; and there was nothing there to take 
fire that I could see in any way or shape. On the outside, the boiler 
was brick, and around the boiler there was a space just wide enough for 
the engineer to get through, and get round the back side of the boiler. 
There was a brick floor front of the boiler, and a brick partition-wall 
next the engine-room ; there was a wooden step next the packing-room. 

Q. Where was the fire-door? 

A. At the end of the boiler next the engine. 

Q. Where did j^ou keep the fuel ? 

A. The coal was kept on the brick floor, and the wood and fuel for 
firing up during the day, by the side of the boiler. 

Q. How was it brought in there? 

A. By a wheelbarrow, through the passage-way from under the side- 
walk. 

Q. Was the floor brick all the way through there ? 

A. No, sir, that was a wooden floor through there ; there was a brick 
floor underneath the elevator. 

Q. What goods did they keep there ? 

A. Dry goods. 

Q. They were manufacturers? 

A. No, sir, they were jobbers. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) Then the goods were lowered down and there 
put into cases ? 



Ta^sa^ei//ajr 



^^/l:Wl^^. 




cn 

I— 

CO 



C/D 
CO 



N«? 83, 85 a: 87 

SUMMER STREET 



A Boiler, 48 in. X 14 ft- Inspccti'd July 19tli, 1867. 

B Engine. 

C Elevator, about .5 ft. 6 in. square. 

I) 8 in. Brick Wall. Large window for light. 

Distance from head of boiler to bricli wall, about 10 ft. 

•' ■• brick wall to Elevator, about 15 ft. 

Brick floor in Boiler and Engine room. 
Width of Boiler room, about 6 ft. 
■■ pa.-isageway. ■• o •' 



83 

A. At tliat time I thiuk they didn't occupy anything but these two 
floors, the basement and the first floor. 

Q. How was the front portion of the basement occupied ? 

A. Dry goods laid out on the counters. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) What was the lining of the elevator? 

A. "Wood — pine, or spruce, perhaps. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) How were the sides of this packing-room 
finished ? 

A. Ceiled with wood ? 

Q. And a wood floor ? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) Was there any sub-cellar there ? 

A. No, sir ; this boiler-room was about eight or ten inches below the 
engine-room. 

Q. About a step ? 

A. Yes, sir. This engineer was always in the habit of sweeping up 
every particle of coal, or anything of that kind, after raking the fire, 
and then he had the water-pipes come in here, and when he shut off the 
■water at night from going up stairs, the outlet would overflow, and run 
all over this part of the boiler-room ; the bricks were lower here, and 
there would be perhaps two or three quarts of water that would run 
right on to those bricks, so that in case any fire should be left here, it 
would be put out by that water. 

Q. Where did the fire-flue pAss up from the boiler? 

A. It went up against the party-wall side, and into the chimney near 
the engine-room. 

Q. Was there any smoke-pipe, or was it all a brick flue? 

A. A brick flue. 

Q. Did the chimney- flue pass through that partition-wall to the roof? 

A. Yes, sir ; about three or four feet from the floor of the boiler- 
room, there was a window cut through for light and air, into the engine- 
room. 

Q. Did they get daylight into the fire-room ? 

A. Oh, j^es, sir. 

Q. Through the elevator? 

A. Through the elevator ; the sheathing went up about five feet, and 
then glass windows at the top. 

Q. Could they use this room through the whole day without gas-light ? 

A. Yes, sir ; there were side lights under every window, and then 
Hyatt lights in the sidewalk, which made this very light, and then there 
were two windows in the rear besides. 

Q. I suppose there were gas-burners there ? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Where were they, in the ceiling or on the side ? 

A. In the ceiling. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) Did you see anything of the fii-e? 

A. I didn't see it until the roof was pretty well burned. 

Q. At the time you saw it, was the fire confined to the upper portion 
or was it all over the building? 

A. I came down Summer street ; I didn't stay a great while. I saw 
I couldn't do anything there, and I went round to Mr. Klous' store, at 



84 

the corner of Devonshire street, and let this go. I couldn't get near the 
building. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) Had any mechanics been at work in that 
basement recently? 

A. Not that I know of, 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) When you came in sight of it, was the whole 
building on fire ? 

A. All the upper part. 

Q. How was it below ? 

A. It seemed to be entirely dark in the basement and store. 

Q. On what side of the building were you? 

A. I was coming down Summer street. 

Q. There was no light shining out of the Summer street basement? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) If there had been any fire below there, do j'^ou 
think it could have escaped your notice ? 

A. I don't know that I should have seen it ; my attention was dh'ccted 
to the upper part of the building more than the lower. 

Q. How much of a basement window was there in front on Summer 
street ? 

A. All glass. 

Q. How high? 

A. About twenty inches, perhaps more. I think it was twenty-four 
inches, and glass all the way round, except for the doors and stair-waj^s. 

Q. Where was the entrance from Summer street? 

A. There was an entrance for the chambers, and then two doors on 
the lower floor to the store. 

Q. Were those doors open when you arrived there that night ? 

A. I can't say. 

JOHN S. DAMRELL, sivorn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) You are Chief Engineer? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. How long have you been so ? 

A. It will be seven years the 1st of April next, — six years and nine 
months. 

Q. How long have you been in the department? 

A. I joined the department in 1846, remained about five months, and 
took hold again some two years subsequently. 

Q. Were you Assistant Engineer? 

A. I was elected to the office of Assistant Engineer in February, 1858. 

Q. Did you continue to hold that office until you were elected Chief 
Engineer ? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. At what time did j^ou first go to this fire on the 9th of November? 

A. I was at my residence. No. 60 Temple street, when the alarm 
came in. I partially clothed myself — not as fully as I frequently do, 
knowing it to be, as we term it, a very bad box. On counting the box, 
and ascertaining what it was, I started for the fire. I got the second 
alarm when I had made the point on the corner of Park and Beacon 
streets. As near as I can judge in time, it might have been eight 



85 

or ten minutes from the time tliat the alarm was first given, when I 
arrived on the fire ground. 

Q. What was the condition of the fire when you arrived? 

A. Well, sir, I have no language that I could describe it, really ; suffice 
it to say, that the building was on fire from the basement to the top, 
presenting, as it were, one vast furnace. The heat was so intense on 
my arriving there that it was impossible to get within fifty or seventy- 
five feet of the building. The material of the building being granite, its 
explosive properties were shown very conclusively by the shower of 
granite that was flying in every direction, from pieces weighing one 
pound to ten and twenty. 

Q. When you arrived ? 

A. When I arrived. Engine No. 4 was at the hydrant on the corner of 
Kingston and Summer streets. Hose No. 2, 1 can't state the hydrant 
that thej' took at that time, but their line was in the passage-wa}^ between 
the brick building and the large granite building that was on fire, — hav- 
ing a stream up that passage-way. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) The passage-way leading from Kingston 
street ? 

A. Yes, sir, I found Engineer Regan in command of that stream. 

Q. Was there anything else there ? 

A. Yes, sir. Engine No. 7 was located farther down, towards South 
street. The exact position of the hydrant that they had I cannot desig- 
nate. But their stream was over the sheds, playing into the rear of the 
main building itself that was on fire. 

I don't know that I located No. 4's stream ; but they were at the 
hydrant. Their stream was down Kingston street and up in the attic or 
in the Mansard of the brick building on Kingston street, just below the 
granite building, which building was on fire, and burning very rapidly 
at that time. That stream was in command of Engineer Green. That 
comprises, so far as I know, the apparatus that M'^as at the fire when I 
got in. In coming out and coming from the building up. Hook and Lad- 
der 7 came in to the. fire. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Now we would like to have you go on and tell 
all you saw, and all you did, and all the orders you gave. 

A. Well, sir, the next move that I made, I went on to Summer street, 
and met No. 8. The thought occurred to me then and there that I did 
not hear the third alarm. I spoke to an officer, and told him to go and 
turn in the alarms. He said that they had been turned in by order of 
Captain Regan. 1 told him to go to the box and ascertain, and to turn 
in a general alarm, whether it had been two or six, it made no odds 
which, but to give a general alarm. I sent a courier to meet No. 8 and 
to bring her into Winthrop Square, to locate at that hydrant. I then 
ordered a spliced ladder on to the building on the corner, on the oppo- 
site side, and for the ladder-men to scale those roofs. While that was 
being done, I was informed that the third building on Summer street on 
the opposite side, back of the sky-lights, was all on fire in the roof. I 
crossed the street as quick as possible, and ascertained that such was 
the fact, and went and took Capt. Kegan from the passage-way and 
pointed out to him the duty that I desired to be done — the extinguish- 
ment of that, and to bend his energies in that direction. 



86 

I then met the Chief Engineer of Charlestown, and he asked me if he 
could be of any service. I says, " Yes, I want your entire department." 
He said I should have it ; and I asked him to mass his force in Winthrop 
square, and take water from the reservoir on Franlvlin street, and to 
hold the building on the left of Bebee's building by massing his force 
there, as that was the key to the fire at that time. 

The Inspector of Buildings, Captain Chamberlain, came up at that 
time, and asked if he could be of any service. I told him that he could be 
of great service, and for him to bend his energies, in conjunction with 
the Chief of the Charlestown department, to holding that point, if it 
was possible for man to do it. He said that he would do his best, and 
I believe that he did. 

At this point, the Chief Engineer of Cambridge, through his First 
Assistant, reported to me. I massed his department on the right of 
Devonshire street, to command that point and stop the fire from crossing 
through in that direction. That was the point that Engine 8 was sta- 
tioned at, for that very purpose at that time, and for Avhich I had sent 
for them. 

I then went to Summer street and asked Captain Green to hold the 
building on the corner of Devonshire and Summer streets at all hazards ; 
or rather, I used these words to him: "For God's sake, hold this 
corner." He replied to me that he would if I would give him the water. 
I would have been most happy to do it, but I had not the water to give 
him. I did, however, shut off all the streams on that line but the one 
that he was using then on the roof of the building, which enabled him 
to accomplish the work for the time being. 

I then sent a courier to State street to telegraph to every town and 
city within fifty miles of Boston. 

Q. Can you tell what time it was that you did that? 

A. I should judge that this must have been about five or ten 
minutes past eight ; i. e., I sent the courier at that time. He -came back 
and stated that the telegraphs were all closed on the Worcester road at 
Newton, Framingham, and all those places. I then sent the same mes- 
senger to the Worcester depot to find the Superintendent, and asked 
him to say to the Superintendent to send a special train to Worcester 
and bring all the men and apparatus possible from all the towns on that 
line of the road. 

The members of the Hook and Ladder Company that I had sent out 
previous to this as scouts and pickets, to look after the roofs and win- 
dows, reported to me that the fire was burning briskly in Purchase street, 
and in some sheds on the wharf near the Hartford and Erie Railroad. 
Learning that, I started in that direction, for the fire in that vicinity. 
But the thought struck me that I could get an additional auxiliary, and 
I immediately returned and sent an order for the " Lewis Osborne," a 
tug-boat that was supplied with Blake's pumps, I think ; but I may be 
mistaken. They are forcing pumps. The order I gave was to bring 
that boat up to the wharf at the foot of Summer street, and to press 
into service on the boat the members of Hook and Ladder " 5 ; " and to 
say to tliem, that it was m}' order that they obey the orders of this man, 
Mr. Scott, as though he were an engineer. I then came back to the 
place where the fire commenced and ordered a member of Hook and 



87 

Ladder Company No. 3 (his name I cannot give), to take the Insurance 
patrol-wagon and go to the store-room at City Hall and take every piece 
of spare hose on storage, and bring it to the fire-ground. 

I was then notified by an engine-man of No. 4, that he could not 
remain in his position longer, on account of the intensity of the heat 
and the missiles that were being thrown. I told him to put on another 
piece of suction and swing his engine farther around on the corner, and 
to remain there until he burned the gauge-cocks off his engine, and for 
the hose-men to put streams on the engine-men and firemen alternately, 
so that they could stay at their posts. He replied that he would stay 
until he got orders to leave. 

I then gave an order to No. 4's men to take their line (the building 
on the opposite side being abandoned for the time being) into the roof 
of that building. They started to accomplish that work ; but before 
they completed it, the coving of the building on this side, from the heat, 
came down and cut the suctions right down at the engine. That 
necessitated making the engine up aud going to another place, and pro- 
curing a new outfit for it. 

Just before, or just at this time, I am not positive, gentlemen, which, 
the operator at the fire-alarm, whose duty it is to report to the Chief on 
the fire-ground at all times, came to me and asked me if I had any 
orders. I gave him an order to strike an alarm of fire from South 
Boston, and to follow it up with a general alarm. The object in doing 
that was, that by previous orders one engine was to sta}^ at South 
Boston to cover that territory, unless specially sent for by an Engineer. 
The reason why I caused the alarm to be given was in order to bring 
that engine, so that I might have every piece of apparatus. I went to 
Purchase street at this time. 

Q. About what time was this ? 

A. Well, it might have been quarter or half-past nine. It would be 
impossible for me, gentlemen, to fix the time. I will simply say, that 
the reason why I think that it was about this time is, that at this time 
I had a report that the boat was in service at the foot of Summer street. 

I have omitted one thing ; previous to this. Alderman Jenks came to 
me on Summer street, and asked me if there was anything that he could 
do to assist me. I said " Yes. Go to the telegraph office and ascer- 
tain for a dead certainty whether my telegrams have gone or not. You 
can serve me better in that way than in any way that I know of. If 
the}^ have, all right. If they have not, see to it that they do go." There 
was something at this time said by Alderman Jenks to me about pow- 
der, but I am unable to state what that was ; but I made a repl}^ to it. 
Then I started for another scene, of which notice had come to me. I 
was told that the people in the tenement houses refused to leave, and 
that they were so eager to get their household goods, that unless I gave 
special orders and authorized different means from what were then em- 
ployed, there would be many lives lost ; and I then went aud gave my 
immediate attention to that in person. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) The tenement houses in what street? 

A. 1 think they were on Oliver place, but I cannot name the street. 
They were down in that vicinity. I followed at that time the lead of 
those who came to give me the information. The first that I met was a 



little lad about twelve years of age, who came up and took me by the 
hand, and asked me to get his father and mother. I endeavored to do 
so ; took him by the hand and asked him to point out where they were. 
But it was too late. It was impossible for me to get into the building. 
I got into one story, but to get to the other I could not. I then took 
him away safe, and turned him over to some others, and went into 
another building. They were tumbling down goods and the stairs were 
blocked. I gave orders to the men to lift the windows and put them out 
just as fast as possible. 

In going down to Peaii street and Oliver street with those men, I 
called for a police officer and one responded to me. I told him to go to 
the Deputy Chief of Police at Citj'- Hall, and say to him that I wanted 
the Deput}^ Chief with fifty policemen ; to sa}^ to him that he had au- 
thority from the Chief Engineer to go into any gentleman's house or 
carpet store, wherever goods of that kind might be found, and press into 
service an}' team or men, and to cover the roofs and windows of every 
building that it was possible to cover, with carpets, and to say to any 
engineer or fireman, that any engine that he needed was to be taken for 
the purpose of wetting those roofs. I did not hear any word until I met 
the Deputy sometime after that. I asked him if he got my order, and 
he said that he did. The man found I im at his house, but he could not 
comply with my request, because he had no men ; otherwise, he should 
have done it. 

Q. (By Mr. EussELL.) He gave no other reason, did he? 

A. No, sir. Only that he had no men ; that they were engaged. 

Q. What messenger did you send ? 

A. It was a police officer, I cannot tell who. I sent him to the Dep- 
uty' Chief at City Hall, and he went from City Hall to the Deputy's 
house, and found him at his house. 

I then went to Milk street and took an axe and a lantern and opened 
a door and went up to the top of the building, on the roof. I took a 
survey then of the entire fire. My object was, to ascertain, if possible, 
the point where I could make a more successful attack, either by gun- 
powder or by water. I surveyed it carefully, and after looking Frank- 
lin street through, and other streets, I could not satisfy my mind that I 
could use gunpowder with nx\y sort of success. The reason suggested 
to my mind was this : " If Franklin street presents no width in which 
I XDiiy successfully battle aiid meet the flames, where can I make a breach 
in this district, as it is now seen, that would give me a greater width 
than I have on Franklin street?" 

Q. What building was that? 

A. It was a large building, and, as near as I could judge, it was used 
for wooden wares. 

Q. How many stories high? 

A. I should judge that that building was six stories. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) Could you see the whole fire there? 

A. 1 could see every corner, I think, of the fire. I could not look at 
the ditlerent buildings abstractly, but I could see the fire as il came up 
from the dilferent directions. I then went to the corner of Bedford and 
Chauncey streets, I think, and called for an engineer at that i)oint. I 
found Captain Colligan. I asked him to cover that section well, for un- 



89 

less be held that the fire would certainly Trork back on to Washington 
street the other way. He said that he would ; and I told him to cover 
Hovey's store on the rear and save that as a key and battlement to fight 
all other points from. 

At that time, I sent Captain Monroe to Church Green to hold the 
Freeman's Bank building, if possible. I left the order with Captain 
Colligan, that the moment he could accomplish that, and it was safe, to 
mass his entire force to the leeward of the fire, as quick as this point 
could be held, and to keep in constant communication with South Bos- 
ton and Boston wharf, as there was my greatest trouble. It gave me, 
I presume, as much uneasiness as anything I had to contend with during 
the time. 

Q. (B}' Mr. Russell.) You mean, for fear of the fire crossing? 

A. For fear of the fire crossing to South Boston, there being not a 
single piece of apparatus there to protect it, and knowing that there was 
but a single outlet, and that through Washington Village, and Adams's 
sugar house and all the oil mills, and Boston wharf, with an innumerable 
number of stables, cooper-shops, etc. Had the fire reached there from 
the cinders, South Boston vfould have been consuni^d, in my judgment, 
and the loss would have been terrible be^'ond description. 

At this point I went down into Federal street (I think it was Federal 
or Congress ; I am not positive which, but it was one or the othor), and 
I asked the Chief of Lynn if he would hold that corner — bring up his 
force in that direction and hold that corner. He told me he would do 
his best. 

At this point I met His Honor the Mayor. 

Q. What time was that? 

A. I should judge that to be somewhere in the vicinity of half-past 
eleven o'clock. With him were Alderman WooUey, Chairman of the 
Committee on Fire Department, Alderman Jenks, and Councilman Jones. 
I had then sent (but they had not reported to me) for Captain Green, 
Captain Smith and Captain Regan. I ordered Captain Green to take 
the patrol-wagon, and to detail such force as was necessary to open the 
store of Mr. Lovell, Mr. Reed and others, and secure such quantity of 
powder as would enable him to operate ; Captain Smith to go to the 
Magazine at Chelsea, get a load of powder, and report to me at that 
place — corner of Congress and Federal streets (that was previous to 
my seeing the Ma^'or, that I had sent these men) ; Captain Regan 
to go to Mr. Boyd's store, open it, and take out every piece of hose 
there was in the place and bring it on to the fire ground. I then sent 
— almost simultaneously with the orders to these men — for the other 
engineers to meet me for consultation. It took some thirty minutes, I 
should judge, before I could get my engineers. They were making a 
hard fight at their points and they were very loath to leave them. I 
stated in brief that I believed the demand would be made for a trial of 
powder, to stay this conflagration by the use of that, if possible. There 
was some expression of doubt as to the expedienc}^ of so doing, but they 
were willing to use it, if by so doing any good could possibly be accom- 
plished. 

That reminds me, gentlemen, that I omitted one matter, in connection 
with the powder. Previous to this, some thirty minutes or even an hour, 



90 

Captain Chamberlain met me very near this point and asked me if I had 
farther service for him. I said "■ Yes, sir. If you will take the South- 
west District of this fire, and report to me at the earliest possible mo- 
ment any place where, in your judgment, powder can be used with suc- 
cess in staying this conflagration." 

Q. You say this was about half an hour before you met the Mayor ? 

A. Yes, sir. It might have been a little longer than that. I should 
say that it was all of that, certainly. 

Some fifteen minutes after I dispatched Captain Chamberlain on that 
mission, I met Deputy Chief Quinn. I stated to him that Captain Cham- 
berlain had taken that position, and asked him if he would oblige me by 
taking the other, and report to me at the earliest possible moment, if he 
could find the point in that line where gunpowder could be used. 

Q. In what direction was that? 

A. On the other side, towards State street. 

Q. North-east? 

A. Yes, sir. Captain Chamberlain reported to me that he could not 
find that point. I did not get the report from Captain Quinn, as I missed 
him. I understood that he was there to report (but I don't know the 
fact) that he found no place to use it. I am not clear in my mind 
as to whether he reported to me or not. It is one of those points that 
do not seem to be so clear as I should wish, in order to make a statement 
of the fact, under oath. 

Tlie members of the Board and His Honor the Mayor went into a 
building that was then on fire. The exact words of the Mayor, as near 
as I can repeat them, gentlemen, were : " Mr. Chief, what are your plans 
and purposes for the staying of this fire ? " I told him, in as brief a 
manner as possible. I asked him if he had any objections to the follow- 
ing out of that plan, and if he had any suggestions to make. He said 
that he was satisfied that the plan I was pursuing was the best, under the 
circumstances, and that he saw no reason why he should interfere. 

I must sa}', gentlemen, that the presence of His Honor, the coolness 
and calmness that he manifested, did a great deal to strengthen and en- 
courage me, and for it I shall feel that he will command my respect as 
long as I live. While others came up blustering, and suggesting some 
of the most wild suggestions that were ever made, His Honor was 
cool, calm, deliberate, and exact. I then stated to His Honor that 
the Board had voted to use gunpowder as an additional means to stay 
this conflagration. I told him that I proposed to give him my opinions 
in regard to its use, in brief, and what I thought would be the result. I 
then said : " Mr. Maj^or, in using gunpowder, I should have at my com- 
mand a battery of water which would enable me to deluge the debris 
that might be levelled by any blasting that could be made, but I am un- 
able to find that building, as yet, which warrants to my mind any sort of 
success in its use." They were mostly large warehouses, filled with mer- 
cliaudise from cellar to roof; the use of gunpowder would shatter 
the walls and lift the roof; but on account of the merchandise, it would 
be impossible to drop it an^^ distance ; and iu addition to throwing out 
the walls and opening out all the windows (which would make it more 
ready to ignite) I should destroy every gas-pipe in every building, and 
open the gas-mains, and a perfect flood of gas would permeate every 



91 . 

part of the debris, which would make it inflammable to an extent that it 
otherwise w^ould not have, in the absence of that agenc}^ In addition 
to that, I should shatter every window within four rods of the building 
that might be blown up, and open it as a conduit for cinders, flame and 
heated air. That was my conviction of the result of its use, and it was 
also tlie best information that I have been able to obtain wherever it lias 
been tried as an experiment in like cases. 

The Mayor says : "I sanction any effort you may make reasonably, 
for the suppression of this fire ; but, in doing it, I charge you that you 
exercise a due regard for human Mfe." At this point I left His Honor, 
and proceeded about my duty. We were then so contracting the fire 
that I was drawing in the lines very rapidly. The apparatus arriving 
from out of town was being put into service as rapidly as possible under 
the circumstances. There were many difficulties to surmount, which 
caused considerable delay and a great deal of vexation. One difficulty 
was owing to the peculiarity of the couplings ; the want of a perfect sys- 
tem in the size and kind ; some using the Bliss, and some using one kind 
and some another. We continued to draw the lines in, and to mass the 
force on the south-west and north-east sections of the fire. 

Q. When you say south-west, don't you mean south ? 

A. When I say south-west, I take Washington street at right angles 
with Summer street. 

During the evening, many suggestions were made to me as to what I 
ought to do and might do ; and I assure you some of them were very 
wild, — such as getting out a park of artillery and battering down Milk 
street, sending to the Navy Yard for shells and exploding them in the 
buildings to tear them to pieces. I continued to draw in the lines from 
that time until Sunday afternoon, at one o'clock, and then I am very 
happy to say that the fire was completely under control, and in the 
hands of the department. 

Q. Did you report that at that time? 

A. I reported at City Hall at one o'clock. 

But I have omitted to say, that I received, about an hour and a half 
after His Honor the Mayor left me — I don't know as it was quite as 
long as that, but I can't measure time — an order from City Hall, which 
at first I did not obey, because circumstances seemed to demand my at- 
tention more upon the ground, to report at City Hall to His Honor the 
Mayor. I had, I confess, when the message first came, some doubts 
whether it came from His Honor, because I had left him upon the fire- 
ground, submitted my plans (which he had approved), and I was then 
prosecuting them, and 1 felt that to take me away would be, in a meas- 
ure, at least, quite disastrous. But feeling that the executive haa a right 
to my presence, I obeyed, and went to the Hall. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) What time was that? 

A. I should say that it must have been nearly one o'clock. It might 
have been past one. 

Q. At that time did you consider the fire under your control? 

A. No, sir ; I did not consider it under my control. I will say to you 
candidly, gentlemen, that I had formed opinions as to the boundaries of 
the fire, and I have had no reason to change my opinion from that time 
to the present. 



92 

Q. What was done at City Hall when you reported there ? 

A. Well, sir, I met the Mayor and an innumerable number of the 
members of the City Government, and some of our most eminent citizens 
there. I could not designate them all now. I recognized quite a number 
— Ex-Mayor Rice, Ex-Ma3'or Norcross, Gen. Burt, and, if my memory 
serves me right, and I think it does, Judge Ablx^tt, Mr. Carpenter, Alder- 
man Cutter, Alderman Jcnks, Alderman V/oolley, Alderman Rieker ; I 
am not positive as toother Aldermen, but I am under the impres^siun that 
an Aldei uiiin from >South Boston, Mr. Powers, was theie. Mr. Bicivuell of 
tlie Council, was there, Mr. Page of the Council, Mr. ^5hepard of the 
Council ; Mr. Dickinson, President of the Council, 1 ihink was there, 
but 1 caimot positively state that. I believe that the Hon. Mr. Cobb 
was [)resent, but I am not certain as to that. Judge Russell, I think, 
was present, though I am not positive as to that. So far as I c:in, gen- 
tlemen, 1 have named those who, if my memory' serves me right, were 
present. 

Q. What was said there ? 

A. Well, sir, I think it would be impossible for me to repeat the words 
of the gentlemen correctly ; but, if my memory serves me right, I lis- 
tened to some remarks from Mr. Burt, who Avent on to say that he 
wanted the gates of the Common opened that goods might be carried 
there. He wanted the militia turned out, and wanted somebody sent to 
the Navy Yard to get powder. Pie wanted the Mayor or Chief Engineer, 
to organize parties of gentlemen, comi^osed of one hundred citizens, who 
should have authority to remove goods and to blow up buildings. I 
think that was the extent of the work that he wished done. I notified 
him that I was ready to receive the assistance of any gentlemen, and 
would authorize them to remove goods, or to do such' other work as the 
exigency of the case might demand, even to the blowing up of buildings, 
and as the Board of Engineers had authorized me to blow up buildings, 
I cheerfuli}' would receive any aid that they might oiler in that direc- 
tion. I believe that is about all. I then sat down at the table and 
wrote that A, B, and C, or the gentlemen who were there — Mr. Biu"t, I 
think, was one ; Gen. Benham was another ; the Hon. George O. Car- 
penter another ; Colonel Shepard another ; Alderman Jenks another ; 
Mr. Allen, President of the Water Board, another ; and L. Foster Morse, 
another. 

Q. (By Mr. Greene.) They were all authorized to blow up? 

A. They were authorized to aid and assist in removing goods and to 
blow up buildings. 1 think I expressed myself then very cleari}'^ — the 
same to be executed under the direction of an engineer. I don't think 
that upon the note that I gave them, I put the word " engineer," but 
that was the express term that I used to them. 

Q (By Mr. Russell.) You gave each one a note, didn't 3'ou? 

A. Yes, sir. 

I tlien sent for the Chief of Police and requested him to make a detail 
of four officers to aid and assist the gentlemen named in the execution 
of such work as would be to the best interests of the city. I then left 
the Hall. But on leaving, I was requested by some gentlemen to go on 
to the top of the City Hall. They thought that by so doing I might get 



93 



a better view of the extent of the fire, and it might be of some service 
in the further staying of it. I did so. 

But one thing I have omitted ; previous to my going, General Ben- 
ham said to me that I shoukl not go back to the fire ground ; that I was 
the Chief Director and I should have my head-quarters where I could be 
found. I said to him, I think, " That will do, General, for the field, but 
it will not do in this case." Orders were then sent, when I left the Hall, 
in addition to the powder from the magazine, which I had ordered 
Captain Smith to get, to bring up the powder-boat to the end of Central 
wharf. I confined myself, gentlemen, then, to the bringing in and con- 
tracting of the lines, from the time that 1 left City Hall until I reported 
again at one o'clock Sunday afternoon. 

Q. (By Mr. Eussell.) Did you see any of the explosions? 

A. Onl}^ those that I exploded myself. 

Q. "What ones were those ? 

A. One was in Milk street and there was a corner building, I think, 
on Batterymarch street. They were two ver}' near together. 

Q. Can you describe the building on Milk street? 

A. The buikling on Milk street was a low, three-story building, and I 
brought up a stream of water. I think there was an oil store, I am 
pretty positive there was, the other side of it, down towards the water. 
That I blew up, with Engineer Jacobs. 

Q. \Yhat charge did you use ? 

A. I put in ten twenty-five pound kegs of powder. 

Q. That came from the powder-boat, I suppose? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Did you have any way of confining it? 

A. The only way I had of confining it was to put it under the stairs, 
and the stairs being in the centre of the building, I used the skids as a 
purchase on the top of the powder. 

The fire was coming through in the second story and the cinders were 
flying around so that I could not possibly get up there with it or I 
should have put it in the second story. I put it in the first story above 
the street. The cinders were flying like the flakes in a driving snow- 
storm. 

Q. Did you put the fuse into the bung-hole of each keg? 

A. I put the fuse into the bung-hole of four of the kegs. In fact, I 
could not get it into the others, because I did not have the time, for we 
were obliged to brush the sparks and cinders oft' of the kegs while we 
were accomplishing it. I cut the fuse off' within three feet of the keg. 
I said to my comrade, Mr. Jacobs, "If we go up, we will go together ; 
but we will make a clean thing of this." > 

Q. How many minutes will such a fuse burn ? 

A. I calculated it would burn from a minute to a minute and a half. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) What notice did you give there? 

A. Tiie street was cleared before I Avent in. I gave the order to have 
the street cleared, and the streams were waiting, under cover, to come 
up immediately. 

Q. What was the effect of that explosion ? 

A. It lifted the roof aud droj)ped it on to the first floor and threw out 



94 

the basement story where the powder was, and broke the glass all around 
everywhere within two rods of it. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) Did you light all those fuses? 

A. I cut the fuses off, all four of them ; and then I took a match and 
took a newspaper and took them into my hand that way (illustrating) 
and lit them together. 

Q. That is, all in a bunch. 

A. Yes, sir ; all in a bunch. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) How long did they burn? 

A. I did not get more than twice the length of this room before the 
explosion ; but I got far enough away on the side of the building to be 
all right. 

Q. Was the effect of that explosion beneficial? 

A. Not at all, sir. 

Q. "Was it injurious? 
. A. I can't say that it was very injurious, from the location. I had a 
blank, dead wall above me, and I wanted to level that building, so that 
I might sweep through from street to street with my streams, and hav- 
ing my water there, I felt that I might do that and stop the fire getting 
into that oil-building. 

Q. The fire was prevented from getting into the oil-building ? 

A. No, sir. It swept right square through it, quicker than I am talk- 
ing about it. 

Q. How was the other explosion on Batterymarch street? 

A. That was a building which did not seem to have much in it, and it 
dropped right down. 

Q. What charge was used there? 

A. About the same amount. 

Q. Confined in the same way ? 

A. No, sir. That was put into a closet. That I did alone. There 
was nobody with me. 

Q. That dropped the building, you say ? 

A. That dropped the building down. 

Q. How many stories were there ? 

A. That was a three and a half-story building with a pitched roof, 
as near as I can recollect. I don't know any more than this ; that there 
were three corners, and there was a chance to make a square where I 
could have room to fight the fire as it came up. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) Did you consider the effect beneficial ? 

A. Under some circumstances, I might. But I think not, from the 
fact that the withdrawal of the streams from other points for the purpose 
of that explosion proved, I think, more disastrous and more detrimental 
than it would have been to have maintained our position. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) About the other explosions, you know noth- 
ing, except what you have been told ? 

A. Simply, sir, that I came upon an explosion, in passing through, 
very quickly, from point to point, that was made. I think it was in the 
building below the new Post Office, on the corner of Congress and Water 
streets, where there were offices and bay-windows. That building was 
admirably adapted for an explosion, being occupied as offices, and there 
being nothing to hinder its being dropped right down. 



95 



Q. Was that the fact? 

A. It was. That was the observation that I made while passing, 
that that was successfully done, let it be done by whom it might. 

Q. Do you know who did it ? 

J. I do not. 

Q. Did you notice any effect of the gas from the explosions which you 
conducted ? 

A. Yes, sir. Simply, that at first there was a very strong odor of 
gas that manifested itself at once. That was evident all through the 
district, after the fire commencec^ so that it would be almost impossible 
to say where it was or where it was not. In consequence of the falling 
of walls and the melting of the supply pipes from the gas-meters, the 
whole atmosphere was thoroughly permeated with gas. 

Q. Did 3'ou happen to hear any violent explosions of gas, or see any 
violent flame from gas ? 

A. There were a great many explosions. They were so numerous, 
in fact, that to designate any one would be almost impossible. In con- 
sultation with Captain Smith, Captain Green and others, they were of 
the opinion, early Sunday forenoon, that the further use of gunpowder 
would be terribly disastrous, and appealed to me to stop it. I sent 
word to Capt. Smith, by one of the firemen (I can't designate him ; I 
can't tell whether he was an out-of-town man or an in-town man, as his 
face was besmeared and blackened, but he was a fireman), to use no 
more gunpowder in that section. 

Q. About what time should you think that that consultation was on 
Sunday morning? 

A. Well, it was not a general consultation between us, but they came 
to me personall}^, following right along, in regard to it ; not that we 
were together or that we came together, but speakiug of the use of gun- 
powder in the line, as I was going from point to point, as fast as I could, 
covering this place and the other, word would come to me, " We have no 
fuel, Captain," and I had to issue orders to provide for it. Questions 
would be asked which it seems to me, if the person had had his thoughts 
about him, he would not have asked. My orders were : " If the coal 
don't come as quick as you need it, you have shutters on that stord and 
blinds on that, and a building here, or materials there. Use it ! " 

Q. What time did you say this was that they spoke to you ? 

A. I should judge that it might have been very near twelve o'clock — 
between eleven and twelve. I don't know that it was as late as that, 
Sunday morning ; I can't mark the time. 

Q. You say you sent word to Mr. Smith to tell him to use^no more 
powder in that section ? *^ 

A. To have no more used in that section. 

Q. That included what part ? 

A. I understood from the courier who came to me that he was on Dev- 
onshire street, running from State street, near the " Post " building, in 
that direction. That was the understanding that I got from the courier 
who came to me, — that he was in there, and that unless the gunpowder 
was stopped, the fire would go back of them into Washington street, 
that way, and sweep through that way before they could get control of it, 
if their force was to be withdrawn to provide for the use of gunpowder. 



96 

And one appeal that the courier made to me was that parties had at- 
tempted to explode the powder, and it didn't explode, i. e., that some 
casks did not explode, and as for going up and fighting it under those 
circumstances, they could not. I understood that four or five casks 
were taken out of a building, with the hoops all burned off, that had not 
exploded. That was the reason of my imperative order to stop it at all 
hazards. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) You only know by hearsay. You did not see 
anj'thing of the kind? 

A. That was from the courier who came to me. That was the reason 
of that order emanating from me. And word came down, following that 
immediately, from Alderman Woolle}', that the parties did not and would 
not respect Capt. Smith's order. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbpjck.) The parties who were using gunpowder? 

A. Yes, sir. I sent word back by the same party, to Alderman 
Woolley, to say, " Arrest the man and lock him up until I get there, 
if he resists, and take the police to do it." I then succeeded in stop- 
ping tbe fire at that point where I was, and started for this place mj^self ; 
and in going I met another courier, who said that Engineers Jacobs and 
Shaw wished to see me at another point. I went there and listened to 
what they had to say. They asked if there was not a deposit of dualin, 
I think it was, in a store. They said they had been informed that there 
was. I asked them where they got their information. They pointed to 
a gentleman on the sidewalk. I asked him what he knew about it, and 
he said he knew nothing, " only, can't you read?" and he pointed to a 
sign on the store. I replied to him that I could read, and that if he 
didn't move I would read a lesson to him that he would not want to 
listen to. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) What was the sign? 

A. Well, sir, it was some chemicals, or something or other, but I 
could not make out that there was an34hing in the nature of dualin 
about it, and I ordered the attack, and they made it and made a very 
handsome and successful one, and the fire was stopped before it got 
there. 

I started to go towards State street, and a young man met me and 
said the Mayor desired to see me at 42 State street, at once. I went 
there and asked for the Mayor, and they said he had not been there ; 
and General Benham (I took it to be Gen. Benham, a stout, red-faced 
man) said, " We propose to mine State street, but not to fire the mine, 
Mr. Chief." I emphatically said, " No, sir," and left him. That, gentle- 
men, ends my knowledge of powder, and all that matter. 

I retired tlien to the Post Office, and went into the building and asked 
a young gentleman whom I met if he could show me the nearest way to 
the roof of that building. He said, " Yes, I am familiar with it ; follow 
me." He took me by the hand. I confess I was terribly fatigued, and 
it was quite an effort to get up there, I assure you. My lungs were ver^'^ sore 
from being burned. But I succeeded, and found, on arriving at the top 
of the building, a stream of water over the door from Lindall street. I 
asked the fireman if he could hold it, and he said he would try. I asked 
him, " Under whose orders are j^ou working?" He told me, "Under 
Engineer Farrar's." I said, " All right." I went to the window and 



97 



saw Captain Green on the opposite side towards "Water street, and told 
him to bring his streams across, and on to the Post Office building. I 
passed down, and went on to State street and ordered a spliced ladder 
to be thrown on the building above the Post Office, and two lines of hose 
to be taken through that building and on to the roof to command the 
building in the rear, that went down nearly to the entrance of the Post 
Office, and also directly into the angle of the Post Office. Those three 
streams were placed there, and left in charge of Captain Hebard, of the 
Dorchester district. I then went up on to Congress street, I think, on to 
a building there, and found Mr." Jones of the Cit}^ Council. I said, " I 
have got no man to take charge of this stream. Plere is an axe-man and 
a stream. Will you hold this fire at this point, and do me service here?" 
He says, " I will do anything you say, Mr. Chief." I got that stream to 
work and ^remained with him until I saw the fire held in check at that 
point. 

Q. (By Mr, Cobb.) Let me ask j'ou just here : Do you know any- 
thing about any gunpowder being put into the brown stone building 
at the corner of State and Congress streets? 

A. I don't know that there was. There might have been and might 
not have been. I can't answer correct^ in regard to the powder that 
was used in all these places. I am simply satisfied in m}'' own mind 
that with my knowledge of the cit}', and that particular place, never 
again would I use gunpowder. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbuick.) In that class of buildings? 

A. In that class of buildings. I would use it in dwellings, and where 
there were squares running parallel, where a breach could be made, but 
never in a bod}^ of warehouses where there were neither angles nor 
squares, but one continuous circle within circle. 

Now, if you will allow me, gentlemen, in regard to this powder, to 
sa}' a few words. They may not bear directly upon this case, but I have 
endeavored for the past ten 3'ears to obtain every particle of informa- 
tion possil)le upon the use of gunpowder, wherever it has been used for 
the purpose of staying a fire. I had written, or opened communication, 
through the Clerk, with Buff"alo, Portland, New York, Charleston, S. C, 
Sacramento and also San Francisco. In e^ ery one of those places, 
and especially in San Francisco, was its use deplored, as being a means 
of spreading to a great extent the fire. 

Q. (B}^ Mr. Russell.) Was Chicago one of those places ? 

A. Learning that gunpowder was used in Chicago, and used success- 
fully by General Sheridan, I went to His Honor the Mayor and got a 
letter of introduction, and started for Chicago in company with Mr. 
Ryan, a member of the City Council. I called upon the General on my 
arrival, Thursda}' evening, at his head-quarters on Wabash Avenue and 
presented ra}' letter, and he said he w^as pleased to meet any gentleman 
from the East, and was ready and willing to give them all the informa- 
tion he possessed, which was very little. I said, " The papers of the 
East, General, give glowing accounts of jour success in staging the 
conflagration in Chicago, and that only through the medium of gunpow- 
der was any part of the city saved that was saved." He said it was 
erroneous and false in every particular, if I would let him make one ex- 
ception, viz. : that he blew up one building, or attempted to blowup one, 
7 



98 

on "Wabash Avenue ; that it was a signal faihu'e, and the gunpowder was 
used by an ex-Alderman of the City of Chicago, assisted by firemen and 
policemen, and that the result of their effort was of no advantage ; 
for, in the first place, they blew down buildings that would have been 
burned up, and that they burned quicker by being blown up ; and on the 
other hand they blew up buildings where the fire was, to use his expres- 
sion, eating up to tlie windward, where one steam fire engine would be of 
more service and save more property than all the gunpowder that w^as 
used during that night and day. That was the opinion I got from Gen. 
Sheridan himself. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) You understood him that he only tried to 
blow up one building? 

A. Only one ; and he would not recommend it under any circum- 
stances ; that it could only be used, in his judgment, successfully, at a 
sufficient distance from the scene of devastation, from the fire, where a 
whole square could be leveled, and the debris be removed, and a suffi- 
cient amount of water could be brought up there to cover that, and 
advance from that as you would advance upon an enemy, under cover. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) In the inquiries that 3'ou made at New York, 
did you refer to the great fire of 1835 ? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. What did you learn about that? 

A. That it was quite disastrous. But in regard to that, the informa- 
tion I got was not as definite as I could wish, because I couhl not get 
hold of the parties. It was merely a matter of record, which they could 
not say positively was correct in CA^ery particular. 

But at Charleston, S. C, Gen. Ripley came in and took possession 
of the city, and blew up indiscriminatel}'^, and carried the fire nearly a 
mile towards King street, which, in the opinion of those who had charge, 
would not have occurred, if he had not blown up. Of course, in regard 
to that, 1 cannot speak definitely, but that was the report I got. The 
matter was debated by our Board of Engineers from time to time. The 
map of the city was consulted, and the use of gunpowder taken into 
consideration, and the Board were unanimous all the way through, and 
have been for years, that it could not be resorted to in this city with 
any sort of success, except in the more southerly sections of our city, 
or at the extreme north end. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) I suppose those views were not recorded? 
They were informal ? 

A. They were informal. The matter of using gunpowder 1 laid be- 
fore the Board, stating how it was used in other places most success- 
fully, so that the gentlemen of the Board had knowledge of the most 
successful explosions that had been made, in case they should be called 
upon to make them. Also, they knew where to get powder, because each 
gentleman had a list of the powder magazines in Boston, in his pocket, 
so tliat he could refer to it at any time. 

Q. When is that given to them? 

A. That is given to them ever}' year, on the organization of the Board. 

Q. (By Mr. Firtii.) Had any arrangement ever been made, or any 
permission ever asked, in advance, of the authorities, to get the powder 
from Chelsea? 



99 

A. No, sir. I probably, in giving my orders, overstepped the bounds 
of propriety. " Get the powder at all hazards ! Open the doors and 
take it, regardless of consequences ! " But the Engineer didn't proceed 
in that way. More discreet, pi'obably, in that than I was, he went to 
the Commander at the Navy-Yard and got permission, so that the pow- 
der was delivered in a proper manner ; but it certainly was not by my 
order, for I ordered him to get it. 

Adjourned to Tuesday, Dec. 3, at 3 o'clock p. m. ^ 



100 



THIRD DAY. 

Tuesday, Dec. 3, 1872. 

TESTIMONY OF JOHN S. DAMRELL, continued. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) State what in your judgment was the cause of 
this tire iDecoming uncontrollable. 

A. It was uncontrollable from the fact that there was no alarm given 
until the building in which the fire originated was literally consumed ; 
a matter which I think needs the most thorough and rigid examination. 

Q. The other causes ? 

A. The other causes which made it unmanageable were the scarcity of 
water and the extreme height of the buildings. 

Q. What was the reason of the scarcity of water? 

A. The inadequate size of the pipes to give the supply. 

Q. The street mains? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Have you thought of any way of supplying that except by in- 
creasing the size of the mains? 

A. I have thought of other ways which I haA'e suggested to indi- 
vidual members of the government from time to time, which in my 
judgment would be a great auxiliary in cases of emergency. 

Q. What are those means ? 

A. 1 suggested to Mr. Stone of the Council, about a year ago, and 
also to Mr. Webster of Ward Six, of the Council, that I thought a main 
should run from the saltwater directly through the city, and that a stand- 
pipe should be erected at each end of the main with an engine and force 
pump, using Holly's pumps, and that upon that main there should be 
erected hydrants every hundred feet. The pumps named would if re- 
quired give a pressure on the main of 400 lbs. to the square inch and 
would, from each hydrant, through a 1| inch pipe, throw a stream over the 
highest building. In this connection, I have thought of using water- 
wheels, taking the tide-water for power, by constructing a reservoir. I 
entertain no doubts of its entii'c feasibility'. 

Q. Is salt water much more valuable than fresh for extinguishing 
fires ? 

A. Very much so, because it is very much heavier, and its properties 
for extinguishing fire are very much better than fresh water. 

Q. Was it used at all that night? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Used on the wharves? 

A. Used on the wharves. 

Q. Do you desire to say anything about the construction of the build- 
ings ? 

A. About the construction of the buildings and the height of them, I 
would like to say this : I have for quite a number of years regarded the 
buildings that have been constructed in Boston, especially the large 
warehouses, as being the instrument which would eventually destroy 



101 

Boston ; on account of the vast amount of wood used and the inferior 
manner of their construction, and their inaccessibility on account of tlie 
heiglit. So much was I impressed with this that I have labored for the 
last five years, of which I have a record here, to bring the matter directly 
before the Citj^ Council and also our State Legislature. Two years ago 
I succeeded in getting a bill (of which I have a copy with me), which 
I presented to the City Council, accepted by them. 

[The witness here produced a copy of the Ordinance in relation to 
the "Regulation and Inspection of Buildings" (City Doc. No. 55, 1871), 
appended to which was the following certificate : — ] 

" City Hall, Boston, Nov. 30, 1872. 
" Sections 1, 2, 3 and 4 of the foregoing ordinance, reported by the Committee on Ordinances, June 
26, 1871, were based upon the recominendatlons made by the Board of Engineers as presented by the 
Chief Engineer of the Fire Department. 
" Attest : 

"JAMES M. BUGBEE, Clerk Committee:' 

Q. Was this adopted ? 

A. Yes, sir. In connection with that, sir, in tlie report I made to 
the Fire Department on my return from Chicago, will be found these 
words : — 

"All of the large buildings of the city had what is known as the French or Mansard roof, with a 
superabundance of woodwork. These fired from the top, and were one of the great causes of the 
destruction of the eastern part of Chicago, which with a few additional dollars in its original con- 
struction, in placing corrugated iron cornices and mouldings in the linishing of those roofs, would 
have prevented their destruction by the cinders. I hope that our recently appointed Inspector of 
Buildings, with his long experience in this department as an engineer, will vehemently urge, and not 
only urge, but demand, that all Mansard or French roofs shall be so finished as to aUbrd us protec- 
tion from any serious conflagration from that cause." 

I would also call your attention to the clause recommending an addi- 
tional steam engine and a steam floating fire engine : 

" Now. gentlemen, in conclusion, I shall deem it my duty to urge the government to add to this 
department an additional steam Fire Engine, to be located on Atlantic avenue, near the foot of State 
street. Also a steam Floating Fire Engine which shall in its pumps be equal to any three first-class 
Amoskeag steamers: believing that the cheapest and most economical Fire Department that can be 
maintained, is one so strong and eti'ective in all its appointments, that its expense shall be large in its 
maintenance, rather than large in its losses, for the want of being fully equipped." 

I also desire to call your attention to the remarks of General Sheri- 
dan in regard to the use of powder : 

'' He gave us a cordial greeting, and assured us that it would give him great pleasure to do any- 
thing he could for the citizens of Boston; but as to the matter of blowing up buildings in Chicago, he 
had nothing to do with it, nor did he possess any knowlejge of the work. He supposed, however, 
that the powder was placed in the basement of the buildings by the parties who accomplished the 
work. I said, 'Is it true, General, that you did not blow up any buildings at this fire?' — 'Yes. if 
you allow this exception, that I attempted to blow one up on Wabash avenue, but it was a failure; 
so I stopped my ettbrts in that direction.' — ' Well, now. General, what is your opinion as to the suc- 
cess of blowing up buildings at this fire?' — ' Four-tifths of the efforts to blow up buildings were 
failures ; the other fifth, on Harrison street and Wabash avenue, under the circumstances, were 
successful.' — ' Why here. General, more tlian in other places?' — ' Simply from the fact that the 
fire was burning up against the wind, and it left nothing for it to feed upon. I think one steam fire 
engine at this point would have done it better.' — 'Now, General, can you tell m" who did this 
work?' — 'Yes, the firemen, the policemen, and a member of the City Government, or an ex-mem- 
ber.' — ' Now. General, would you be kind enough to give me the substance of what you have stated 
tome in writing?' — 'This, gentlemen, I shall have to decline, because I do not propose to enter 
into any controversy here or elsewhere, upon such matter.' " 

In connection with the matter of water, not only in this district, but in 
other sections of the city, here is a copy of an order which was passed 
by the Cit}' Council, in accordance with a request which I presented, ask- 
ing tliat greater protection miglit be afibrded b}^ the city in the re-laying 
of pipes in the Church-street district, which has never been done, I am 
ony to say, although it was passed by the City Council. 



102 



Q. The order has never been carried into effect? 
A. No, sir. 

" City of Boston, April 5, 1869. 
" Ordered, That the Cochitiiate "Water Board be requested to attach the Lowry hydrants to the 
pipes which are being laid down in the Church-street district at such points at the intersection of 
streets as they deem practicable and expedient. Passed in Common Council. Came up for concur- 
rence. Read and concurred. Approved by the Mayor, April 7, 1869. 
" A true copy, 

"Attest, , S. F. McCLEARY, Ci7)/ CTerA." 

In connection witli that, that I might be thoroughly posted, I applied 
to the City Engineer as to the cost, and here is his reply : — 

" Boston, March 13, 1869. 
" John S. Damrell, Esq., Chief Engineer Fire Department : — 

" Dear Sir : — The following is a statement of the comparative cost of the sidewalk and the Lowry 
Hydrants, made from data furnished by E. R. Jones, Supt. Eastern Division B. W. W. 

Sidewalk Hydrant. Lowry ITydrant. 

CostofHydrant $35 00 Cost of Hydrant $85 00 

" ''Branch 12 00 Difference in cover 5 00 

" " 6-inch pipe from main 24 00 Incidentals, etc 5 00 

" " Hydrant bend 9 50 

Incidentals, cartage, etc 5 00 



$95 00 



85 50 



Labor and boxes would be the same in each. Respectfully, 

" N. HENRY CRAETS, aty Engineer." 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) In this connection will you give your views 
about the Lowry hydrants as compared with the common hydrants? 

A. The advantage I have stated veiy clearly in a report I made to the 
Cit}^ Council, and if you will allow me to read it, it will perhaps be better 
than for me to state it : — 

" During the past three years, at large fires, much difficulty has been experienced for the want of 
an adequate supply of water for our steam fire engines. The immediate cause of failure is this : — 

" The hydrants, in every instance, are placed upon branch pipes, the diametei-s of which vary from 
three to four inches; while the mains themselves, in almost every instance, are but four inches in 
diameter, that supply them. 

" In case of fire, the hydrant upon these branch pipes will afford a supply to only one steamer; all 
others on the line are useless : the steamer being at work, makes a vacuum in the pipe by drawing 
the water to the hydrant first tapped. The result of this diflliculty is, that much time is consumed in 
shifting tlie apparatus to lines of pipe in other streets; by reason of which long continuous lines of 
hose have to be used to convey the water to the scene of conflagration ; and by this operation the 
amount of friction to overcome is very great, requiring oftentimes a water pi-essure from one hun- 
dred and eighty to two hundred pounds to the square inch, to be eftectual in our high buildings. 

'■ To overcome this evil, I would suggest that, upon our main thoroughfares, hydrants be connected 
with the main pipes, of size not less than eight inches in diameter, with a proper outlet, which 
would give us a supply of water fully equal, if "not more than we now get from six of the ordinary 
hydrants. 

'• One of these hydrants would aft'ord a supply for three of our engines, with one-third the amount of 
those now used to reach the fire. The jjressure upon the hose would be reduced thirty per cent, and 
the bursting correspondingly decreased. 

•' As the city have adopted the ' Lowry Hydrant ' in the Highland District. I would recommend that, 
when any additional hydrants are needed in tlie city proper. South or East Boston, the Lowry 
hydrant be adopted, instead of those now in use." 

In that connection, I have a plan which I desire to call attention to. I 
became so intensely interested in this burnt district, on account of the 
scarcity of water to meet an emergency with, that I caused a plan to be 
made, showing Franklin street, Devonshire street, Hawley street and 
INIorton place. Upon this plan is marked the different places where 
water could lie obtained, showing the scarcity of water in case of fire in 
those streets. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) When was that plan made? 

A. In 1869, under the City Engineer. 



103 



Q. Have there been any changes in that? 

A. None, except that the Water Board did run a 4-inch pipe witli a 
dead end into Morton Place, giving one Iiydrant there. You will see 
that the length of Morton Place on a line .with Devonshire street is 
625 feet ; on a line with Franklin street, 220 feet ; from the corner of 
Morton Place and Hawley street to the reservoir on the corner of 
Hawle}' street and Franklin street, 130 feet; making 975 feet where you 
could not get water in case of fire. If the commissioners will cast 
their eye over the plan, they will see that I had a hydrant on the corner 
of Milk and Devonshire, and. another on the corner of Franklin and 
Devonshire, a distance of 425 feet. There was that line of buildings, 
425 feet on Devonshire street, and only those two poinls where I could 
get a stream of water ; and in the rear, on Morton Place, in the rear of 
almost this entire line of buildings, not a place where I could get water. 

Q. You called the attention of the City Government to that? 

A. Of the Chairman of the Fire Committee. I believe the Chairman 
of the Committee went before the Water Board ; but I am not able to 
say. A hydrant was at this time located on the corner of Franklin and 
Hawley streets, in front of the Pilot Building, but was removed at the 
request of Mr. Donahoe, the removal of which I protested against. 
[The witness pointed out upon the plan the location of the other hy- 
drants in the section represented, and continued.] These hydrants are 
all marked out on the insurance maps (which I think the commission 
should put themselves in possession of), setting forth where water could 
be supplied. The engines were compelled to run long lines of hose, 
and the amount of friction we had to overcome to get the water up into 
the high buildings rendered our etforts, in some instances, futile. 

Q. Are there any other districts in Boston to-daj^, as thickly inhab- 
ited, where the supply of water is no better than there? 

A. Yes, sir, but not where the buildings are so high. The pipes were 
placed there when that territory was covered by dwellings. They have 
never been changed, while the buildings have been changing constantly ; 
high stores have taken the place of the dwellings, but no attention has 
been given to the new wants caused by the changes. I sent a written 
communication to the President of the Water-Board upon this subject. 
He did not answer m}' communication in writing, but sent one of his 
clerks to me, saying, when they were in want of any suggestions from the 
Chief Engineer of the Fire Department, he would let me know. I sent 
him a communication suggesting certain improvements for the Fire De- 
partment. 

Q. Was it about that time in 1869 ? 

A. It was just previous to that. 

Q. To Mr. Allen? 

A. No, sir. Mr. Thorndike, I think, was the gentleman'. 

Q. Do I understand you to say the h^^lrauts are the same now as 
when the territory was occupied by dwellings? 

A. The same, sir, precisely. Then we have in addition, two sizes 
of hydrants, known as 2-in. and 2J-in. hydrants, which require extra 
couplings to connect to, called reducers and enlargers ; this is annoy- 
ing, and at times causes delay, as on the night of the 9th of Nov., 
in putting to work out-of-town steamers. 



104 



Q. How was it in regard to a want of fuel? 

A. Each engine carries fuel enough to last from tlu'ee-quarters of an 
hour to an hour. A second alarm of fire being given, the driver of the en- 
gine in the district where the fire is located, takes his horses and brings 
the coal-wagon upon the ground to supply the engines. That is his 
duty in case of a second alarm. 

Q. How much does the wagon bring? 

A. The wagon brings two tons at a time. 

Q. How long will that last? 

A. It will generallj^ last about fifteen or twenty minutes, according to 
the fire that we have, and the amount of steam we are running. 

Q. For one engine, is that ? 

A. No, sir, for the engines that are in the service. They go round 
to the diff'erent engines, and drop so much at each engine. Sometimes 
there is one engine, and sometimes half-a-dozen. They go from one to 
another. If an engine is in want of fuel, they blow their whistle. 
Three sharp whistles call for fuel. They go round, drop all the fuel, 
and go to the wharf and get another load, and so keep going. 

Q. Plow many engines would two tons supply for fifteen minutes? 

A. Probably thirty minutes all the engines right round. The coal- 
wagon starts before they consume the original amount they carry. They 
go round and dump the coal down. 

Q. How many steamers are there in the city ? 

A. Six. 

Q. It would supply six? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. How many in South Boston ? 

A. Three. 

Q. East Boston? 

A. Three. 

Q. Roxbury? 

A. Three. 

Q. Dorchester? 

A. Six. Twenty-one engines in all. If you will pardon me, I wish 
to state that I bad brought the matter to the attention (probably you 
must be familiar with the fact) of the citizens and of the cit}--, that this 
entire district, comprising nearly all the wealth of Boston, has been 
entirely destitute of steam fire engines ; and no amount of influence 
that I could bring to bear has remedied the evil. 

Q. When did you bring that to the attention of the citj'? 

A. I have been constantly doing it for the last four or five j'ears. I 
have called their attention to the fact that there was not a single steam 
fire engine in this entire district ; taking a line from Prince street, on the 
north, to the water, and from East street, south, to the water (that be- 
ing located very near Federal street), taking Prince street round to the 
Revere House and along to Boylsten and Essex streets, taking Tremont 
street on one side as the boundary, and the water on the other, Prince 
street at the North End, and East street and P^sscx street at tlie South 
End, — that entire section was left without a single piece of steam fire 
apparatus. 

Q. Tiiat includes all this burned district? 



105 



A, Every part of it, and more. 

Q. Have you ever alluded to it in your reports ? 

A. No, sir ; but I have called the attention of the committee to it. I 
labored earnestly to get an engine at the foot of State street ; or at Milk 
street ; or at the Court House. In my statement to the committee I 
stated that eighty per cent, of all the expenditures of the department 
is in its running ; that eight-tenths of all the fires are in the territory 
where I asked that an engine might be located. "We are constantly' run- 
ning into this district to do dut}', instead of having the engines in the 
places where the fires are located. 

Q. Where shall we get the testimony to that effect? 

A. I think I have, in one of my reports, set forth this fact, — that 
eighty per cent, of the expenditures of the department were incurred in 
running expenses ; I don't know that I have gone into the matter in my 
reports. These were my statements to the committee, and I shall be 
glad to present evidence bearing upon this from Hon. Avery Plummer, 
ex-Alderman Gibson, who was a member, and also Mr. Flanders of the 
City Council, whom I took into the district, with that plan in my hands, 
and pointed out the situation. In this connection, I would like to call 
attention to other sections of the city ; for instance, between Dover 
street on one side, and Warren on the other. We have not a single steam 
fire engine in that entire section, it being a mile and three-eighths be- 
tween Dover street and Warren street in Roxbury — between these streets 
and the water line on one side, and Beacon street on the other. I would 
like to have this commission visit the house and see how the apparatus 
is located. In the business section of our city bounded by Beach street, 
South and Blackstone street, north, the Fire Apparatus, with one excep- 
tion, viz.. Engine No. 4, is located on the outskirts, viz.. Engine 8 and 
Hose 1, Engine 6 and Hose 3, and Engine 10. 

Q. Why is it you have not stated these facts in j^our reports ? 

A. I have, sir. I have stated all the facts in regard to the want of 
apparatus to my committee. 

Q. Have you stated to the City Council what you have stated here? 

A. I have called the attention of the Committee on Fire Department 
to the territory unprotected by Fire Apparatus ; but when in their judg- 
ment the city demanded additional Engines, Hose or Hook and Ladder 
Carriages, and they have presented the necessary orders to the City 
Council, there has been a reluctance to augment this department by the 
members of the government on account of its size as compared with other 
cities. 

Q. Do you in 3-our reports discuss the subject, or simply state 
what the facts are? 

A. No, sir ; whenever I have said much about this matter I have been 
met with the reply, " Don't try to magnify the wants of you;- .lepartment 
or of your office so much." 

Q. The idea of the CityGovernment has been, that they employed 
you to do a piece of work, not to tell them what should be done? 

A. Yes, sir. They did not consider m}- judgment worth entertaining ; 
it went for what it was worth. For instance, upon this matter of in- 
spection of buildings, I followed it up year after year, and the City 
Council through its counsel reported to me that they had no authority in 



106 

the premises, and dropped it right there ; but I kept pushing it, and 
finally carried it before the Board of Underwriters, and asked them to 
aid me in securing the law. 

Q. Was it done^ 

A. With the change of the government it was. Mr. Drake was chair- 
man of the Committee on Legislative Matters, and he, as a Boston mer- 
chant, took an interest in the matter, and succeeded in getting it before 
the House of Representatives, and it passed in the shape of a bill. 

Q. Why is it that these engines are stationed in such bad places ? 

A. Simply from the fact, that at the introduction of " steam," the}' 
occupied the houses of the Hand Department under the old organi- 
zation. 

Q. Do you know anything about the scarcity of fuel ? 

A. I have no doubt, at times, there was a scarcity of fuel, but it 
ought not to have operated for one moment, because fuel was accessible 
at every point in an emergency. There were over one hundred tons of 
fuel carried upon that ground between half-past seven that night and 
ten o'clock the next morning. 

Q. What kind of fuel ? 

A. English cannel coal, for which the bills have been presented to the 
city. 

Q. How much stock do you keep on hand in the engine-houses? 

A. About a ton and a half, to two tons, in each engine-house. 

Q. Is that all carried with the engine at the time it starts ? 

A. No, sir. We carry about a quarter of a ton of coal, calculating 
it will last an hour on each engine. 

Q. This statement in regard to the exact location of the engines you 
will give in your written account, so that we can have it to refer to ? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Did you observe the first engine that got there, whether they had 
suflflcient fuel? 

A. I didn't obserA^e them, but I have no reason to doubt it, — not the 
slightest reason to doubt it, because the men who came on to the fire- 
ground with any want of fuel, if it was known, would be immediately 
discharged, 

Q. You remark, that if they had not the coal, they had the means at 
hand. AYhat do you mean by this ? 

A. Yes, sir. I was told by a man connected with an engine from out of 
of town that they had no fuel. I said, " You see those blinds ? and those 
shutters? and that fence? Where is 3'our axe?" The coal-wagon failed 
to suppl}'^ one of our engines and the men obtained fuel by tearing out 
portions of an adjacent building. 

Q. Anthracite is too slow ? 

A. Yes, sir. Wood will make the quickest fire. 

Q. You begin with that? 

A. Yes, sir, but we use cannel coal ; it lasts longer and we can keep 
up our steam with it as easily. 

Q. Do you know of any engine that used benzine, or any such sub- 
stitute for ordinary fuel? 

A. No, sir. Three or four years ago I attempted the use of petro- 
leum as fuel, and fitted up an engine for the use of petroleum 01 gas ; 



I 



107 



but that is done away ■svith. We cany a quantit}^ of benzine — a small 
bottle — and sometimes, when the fire is slow and tliey want to quicken 
it, and sometimes in starting the fire, they throw that in. 

Q. Does that make a great smoke ? 

A. It does make considerable smoke, but it is seldom resorted to. 
When an engine starts, they measure the distance they have to run 
before reaching the signal-box, and calculating from five to eight 
minutes for producing steam, they light the fire according to the dis- 
tance they have to go. In this connection, you will allow me to say 
that we have in our engine-hoilses what is called a " Circulating Heater," 
where we keep from one to five pounds of steam on our boilers con- 
stantly. 

Q. You mean with an outside fire? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q.. Is that provided in all your engine-houses? 

A. No, sir , that is applied at the present time to engines seven, one, 
two, eight, nine, eleven, five, twelve, thirteen, twenty -one ; the other 
engines are located where we could not build them, or are outside of the 
city, and it has not been considered really necessary to apply it to them. 

Q. What term do you apply to this arrangement? 

A. It is what we call a " Circulating Heater." It consists of a boiler 
with a coil of pipe with the necessary check-valves, supplied from a cis- 
tern, so that by making a fire under this small boiler we can keep up a 
circulation of water just the same as yon would from the water-back in a 
range into a boiler, and from there force it over the house. 

Q. You have to uncouple that when 5'ou start? 

A. Yes, sir ; we slip the joint. 

Q. Does it uncouple quickly? 

A. It uncouples itself. 

Q. Now will you tell us what orders were given about using horses ? 

A. Shall I read the action of the Board ? 

[Witness read the vote passed at the special meeting of the Board of 
Engineers, held October 26th, 1872, and continued.] 

This was Saturday afternoon, and raining very hard. We convened 
to take into considei'ation, as our horses were all prostrated, what we 
should do, and we resolved to double the department up, and the Chief 
authorized the Assistant Engineers to offer one dollar per alarm to all 
the veteran members, or ex-members, or persons who could be employed, 
to double the force of the department ; drag-ropes were then procured, 
and there being no other conveyance, the Board of Engineers, at ten 
o'clock that night, took them upon their backs and distributed them 
through the different engine-houses in the entire city. FoUoviug that 
the following communication was sent to the Chief of Police. 

[The witness read the communication appended to the vote before 
alluded to.] 

Q. I would like to inquire if you got a suflicient number of volunteers ; 
if the force was actually doubled ? 

A. Yes, sir ; and trebled. 

Q. You had the names? 

A. Yes, sir. I have no hesitanc}^ in sa3'ing that all the apparatus 
in the cit}' proper which responded to this alarm, came in as promptly 



108 

and responded with as much ahicrity as if they had had the horses, 
and I am the more persuaded of this from the fact that they came in 
at a gait at which you could not have expected the horses to be driven at 
that time. I have evidence, from the several companies who responded, 
which will show conclusively that such was the fact. I will say that I 
did not wait a single moment, and I don't know of a single Engineer that 
did w^ait a single moment, at that fire, or any fire that preceded it, for 
apparatus to come in ; of course the out-l^dng districts would consume 
more time. I have no doubt about that. 

Q. Were any of your horses used that night? 

A. Yes, sir. In tliis connection I would add, that each Engineer was 
to exercise his own good judgment, and if an}' of the horses, in case of 
an emergency, should have so far recovered that they could be possibly 
used, he had authority to cause them to be ui^ed, from the fact that he 
had supervision of the apparatus under his charge. 

Q. Does that appear in your orders ? 

A. The apparatus is entirely, by the ordinances, under the Boax'd of 
Engineers ; they have full control of it. 

Q. Whether the Engineers, in an}'^ order they issued, drew attention 
to the fact that each man was to use his own judgment as to the use of 
horses ? 

A. The Engineers have had that instruction. 

Q. I ask if that is in writing? 

A. No, sir. It was stated, — the Chief expects that every Engineer 
will use his discretion as to when the horses get so they can be used ; 
and the}^ were authorized to press, or hire, horses if an emergency required. 

Q. In what form was that communicated to them ? 

A. Verball}', at this meeting. 

Q. There was no vote, and no writing directing them not to use 
horses ? 

A. No, sir. That I might be better understood in this connection, it 
has been the rule with me, which has been adopted all through, that any 
foreman of a company, feeling or seeing that he could be of an}' service 
in any section, was authorized to use his judgment and respond without 
waiting to receive an order from the Engineer, and I have used language 
like this, which can be verified by every one of them, that I would not 
give one single cent for a member of the Boston Fire Department who 
was not willing to assume responsibility in case of emergency. 

I don't hold them to any general order or rule to wait for an Engineer 
to give them an order to go, for instance, to Cambridge or Charlestown. 
If an engine got down to the city limits, and there was no Engineer 
there to give them directions, they were to proceed at once, and the 
Engineer would follow, and if they were not wanted, would send them 
back. I had made arrangements with Cambridge to help take care of 
the lower end of the city for me, and with Chelsea to help at East 
Boston, and so on. 

Q. Do you remember any engine that was drawn in by horses? 

A. Number sixteen was drawn in by horses, having four horses. 

Q. Where is that from ? 

A. Sixteen is at Milton village. 

Number nineteen came in by hand, and I am informed, credibly, 



109 



although it is a mere matter of information to me, I do not know 
the fact, that, clear to the Four Corners, the}^ were neck and tie 
with the engine that had the four horses on, and were into the fire with 
the men in less than four minutes after the time the}- got in with the 
liorses. That was from Mattapan, the same distance tliat the}' came 
with tlie other. That is told me ; I don't vouch for its correctness any 
further than it M'as told to me. 

Q. There were no horses used in the city proper? 

A. No, sir ; there were none, only, after the alarm, we used them in 
drawing coal. >. 

Q. How many of your horses did you use that night ? 

A. I used hook and ladder 5's horses, at South Boston. I used 
engine 7's horses ; they run right out of their engine-house, being near 
to the fire ; if it had been to any other section of tlie cit}- , they probably 
would have used these horses. 4 had no horses to use. They 
were in the hospital ; they were taken to the hospital that da}-, the 
doctor ordering them there, and they were not in condition, having the 
lung fever in addition to the horse disease ; number 6's horses were 
recovering, and we were in hopes they could be used, and should have 
used them, probably, in a day or two ; they were brought into service to 
haul coal with that night. 17's horses, at Dorchester, were used and 
are now dead from the effects of the use. 

Q. Were there any horses able to work that were not used that night? 

A. I don't know of a single one that Avas able to work that was not 
used. Of course, if I had known on that morning that a big fire was to 
take place (or an hour before) I should have made an effort to get other 
horses, but to have attempted to use our horses, I think, would have 
been terribly destructive ; for if the horses could not have got to the fire, 
as the doctor assures me the}^ could not, I should have had no prepara- 
tion for bringing the engines to the fire, and the delay would have been 
such that it would have been terrible in the extreme. I sliould be 
pleased to have Doctor Very summoned. I had him in charge of the 
horses ; and he is able to give their condition better than I can, from 
his skill and knowledge of their condition. I certainly was travelling, 
night after night, with him, looking at and watching the condition of 
the horses. I had emploj'ed Mr. Mahan. His horses were to convey 
engine 13 and hose 7, in case of an emergency, from the Roxbury 
district ; and when the alarm struck, he reported, with his horses. He 
did not get to the engine-house until after the engine had started ; he 
did not overtake them, and did not get in until after the}' did, although, 
I believe, he brought them in afterwards. 

Q. Did you notice on that night any explosion of gas, or any trouble 
caused by the blowing up of gas-pipes? 

A. There were constant explosions througli the district. What it 
resulted from, I am not able to sa}'. Whether it was gas, or not, I 
don't know ; but this much I know, a building would be burning, and, 
from experience as a mechanic and as an engineer, I had no reason to 
feel or believe that the building would fall, and immediately it would go 
down and an explosion would follow very quickly. Whether it resulted 
fi'om an explosion of gas in the pipes, I am not able to say. 

Q. What can you tell about the fire on Mouda}' morning ? 



110 

A. That wfis caused by three distinct explosions of gas, which were 
tremendous. 

Q. That was the jeweh*y store ? 

A. Yes, sir. I was in the cellar of the corner store when one explo- 
sion took" place. 

Q. How do you account for the gas getting out of the pipes there ? 

A. By working through the drains, round and back, and into the 
sewers. 

Q. It got into the sewers from burning buildings ? 

A. Yes, sir ; and from other leaks it ma)^ be. The pipe runs through 
the wall, and the gas which has escaped flows back into the drain, 
following it along into the main sewer, and there explodes. I think it 
was that which caused the cesspool cover in Washington street, which 
is a large iron cover, to be carried up one hundred feet into the air, as it 
was, by the explosion. 

Q. How does the gas get into the sewer ? 

A. The pipes may be in the vicinity of a drain that runs into the 
sewer ; for instance, it is not an infrequent case that we will see a fire 
burning forty or fifty feet along a stone building — burning through the 
crevices — burning out at a distance of three feet — ^a gas tii'e, the whole 
earth being permeated with the gas. We sometimes have a fire in. a 
building, and the first thing you know there will be an explosion 
in the street at some distance from the burning building. For instance, 
down on Salem street and Hanover street ; we went into a store there, and 
the moment the fire got there, so as to attack the gas, there was an 
explosion, and it followed up on Blackstone street and lifted and threw 
up a sidewalk that was eighteen inches thick, throwing it up like so 
many shavings. 

Q. Can you suggest any method of remedying that evil? 

A. Yes, sir ; what should have been done years ago. At every corner 
of every street there should be a check-valve, which would enable the 
gas company to shut off" the gas from one street without inlerfering with 
any other street. There is no reason in the world why it should not 
have been done. 

Q. How is it in other cities ? 

A. I don't know ; I believe in the suburban cities about Boston this 
protection is taken ; I believe it is so in Jamaica Plains and in the 
Highland district, and all around ; but in Boston, j'ou never could touch 
the Boston gas-company anywhere with anything. 

Q. How is that in Charlestown? 

A. I think that is true there, but I am not positive as to that ; but I 
do know it is true in some other sections of the city. 

Q. Do you know how many stop-cocks they have ? 

A. No, sir ; but I knovv that when there is a fire, we have to run 
round and hunt up their workmen to get them to shut it off" from the 
building. 

Q. Do you know how it is in large cities, — New York, Philadelphia? 

A. In New York, particularly, they have certain sections divided up 
into parallels, where they can shut, off" certain squares. Since this fire, 
I have not been able to think about these things. I had previous to this 
matter. I prepared a communication some six months ago to send to 



Ill 

the City Council upon this very point, but, from some reason or other, 
I omitted to do it. 

Q. Has that ever been brought before the City Council or Legislature ? 

A. 1 don't know that it has. As to the inefficiency of the water- 
pipes and the likelihood of burning the city up b}^ constructing such 
buildings, I haA^e worked on these things, and it has been pretty hard 
to get them before the government, and get them adopted. 

Q. Would the second fire.have taken place if you had had those stop- 
cocks and checks ? 

A. No, sir. In my judgment it would not. 

Q. You propose to have them where you could use them ? 

A. Yes, sir. I have a man in each ladder company whose duty it is, 
with a wrench, to go into cellars and shut off the gas. That is his duty. 
He is assigned to that particular duty ; but that does not cut off the 
street mains ; we cannot meddle with them. 

Q. Do you happen to know, of your own knowledge, how Hovey's 
building was saved ? 

A. Yes, sir ; that is, in part. 

Q. State what was done there. 

A. Whoever was in charge of Hovey's building so organized his 
forces, that, by the use of blankets, keeping them wet, he did a great 
and Herculean labor in saving the building ; in which he was seconded 
by Engineer CoUigan, who had one stream of water. I considered that 
a key to the fire which would prevent it stretching over that section of 
the city, and instructed him to keep that point, which he did. 

Q. On the second night, do 3'ou know about turning off the gas ? 

A. I know I sent to the gas company to shut off the gas. I am not 
able to say whether the}^ did or not. I sent an order. I don't know 
whether it was executed. 

Q. Do you know about what time that order was sent by you ? 

A.. It was after the striking of the third alarm for the fire. I cannot 
designate the time. I sent the man directly up there to do it. 

Q. A\^ere you down there at the time of the first alarm ? 

A. No, sir ; nor the second. I came there between the second and 
the striking of the third. 

Q. At the first fire, what time did you get home? 

A. Sunday afternoon, at 4.45 o'clock, I went home and remained about 
twenty minutes to change my clothing, and then went to So. Boston for 
the purpose of supplying the engine houses with hose in that section of 
the city. The next time, Monday, at 3.15 p. m., and remained about one 
hour. I next went home Tuesday night, and remained until W„dnesday 
morning. I next went home on Friday night. 

Q. And on duty all the time? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Where were 3'ou when the first alarm sounded on Sunda}' morning? 

A. I was at the Cit}' Hall, in the Maj-or's office. The Mayor was 
present. 

Q. In general Avhat was the behavior of the Fire Department? 

A. Never better. Never did a body of men work more heroically or 
better. I have no language to express my gratitude to those men. 

Q. Were there any exceptions ? 



112 

A. Not any. I am indebted to them for the alacrit}^ with which the}' 
responded to me. I am under obligations, which I can never repaj^, to 
the out-of-town companies. 

Q. What is your opinion as to the behavior of the police, and the 
co-operatio-n of the police? 

A. I have nothing but universal commendation, sir. 

Q. What do you think of the project of having an alarm to call out 
the militar}' ; or having it understood, that, on a certain signal, the 
soldiers should come to j^our aid? 

A. I should saj", that never before did I realize the real benefit that they 
could atford, in case of emergency, in driving back the crowd, and giv- 
ing us room to work. That was one of the greatest obstacles we had 
during the fire, — the pressure of the crowd in upon us, keeping us from 
the performance of our work, and requiring a great deal of extra labor. 

Q. You say the soldiers were verj^ efficient? 

A. Ver}', indeed. Very efficient, and very gentlemanly. 

Q. When were they first on the ground? 

A. The first I saw of them, I should say, was about four o'clock, or 
five. At five o'clock I saw a company, I think, of Marines. That was 
Sunday morning. It might have been later and might not have been as 
late. Time is entirely out of the question with me. One thing I do 
want to say : One of the worst things that ever was done, was done by 
the Boston merchants in giving their goods away. 

Q. Was it better to let them burn ? 

A. Twenty-five times, — yes, a hundred times over. It was one of the 
greatest elements of disorganizing a regular force that could be resorted 
to, and one of the worst things I had to contend with, — disorganizing all 
that were engaged — out-of-town companies, as well as some of m}' own, 
I am sorry to say; but it was rarely ; it was an exception. It was 
thoroughly disgraceful ; and I am sorry to say that any Boston gentle- 
man would have resorted to it for a single moment. It was the worst 
thing we could possibly have to contend with. There were whole blocks 
of stores that were completely filled with the greatest number of thieves 
I ever saw. I never saw anything like it. I went into one building, 
and took my fire-hat, and beat out fifty to s'xty people. The awnings 
were all burning, and they never touched an awning ; so eager were they 
to plunder, that they never attempted to save pi'operty. I am not cer- 
tain that they did not set fire to get an additional amount of plunder. I 
am not sure of it in my own mind, for I feel that some of the fii'es were 
in ver}' strange places. 

Q. Were ihose firemen? 

A. No, sir ; they were not. But let me say, that from the ladder- 
carriages, where we had coats and extra sets of fire-hats, nearly all of 
them were stolen, and put on to the heads of parties to enable them to 
get access to the buildings. The rear wall of a store on Washington 
street had fallen in by the explosion of gas, and parties in there were 
cut off by the falling of the wall, and cried for hcli); members of the 
Boston Fire Department and the Charlestown Fire Department ran to 
their rescue, and before they could extricate them, the wall on the op- 
posite side came in and killed the whole of them ; consequently they 



113 



lost their lives in the endeavor to save the lives of those who were in 
there when no legitimate business called them there. 

Q. Was that in Bradford & Anthony's place? 

A. It was along in that vicinity. 

Q. Did they give any such authority ? 

A. I could not answer that question. The onl}^ instance of the kind, 
where the party was a fireman, was on Summer street. I met a fireman 
with a suit of clothes, and I immediately took him by the throat, and 
saw he was an out-of-town man, and spoke ver}' strongly to him. I 
gave the suit of clothes to oncof my own men, whom I could trust, and 
told him to carry it and put it in a proper place, and bring it to ni}^ office 
at a proper time ; and it is in my office now. I don't know who it be- 
longs to. That is the only case 1 saw of a member of the Fire Depart- 
ment taking what didn't belong to liira. 

Q. Were the firemen furnished with food and refreshment that night 
and the next morning? Was there any trouble about the want of proper 
food and refreshment? 

A. I don't know of anything. I was so thoroughly occupied that I 
said to some gentlemen, " If you will relieve me from the care of these 
firemen, you will confer a great favor." Alderm-an Powers, by sugges-^ 
tion of the Mayor, went to the United States Hotel, and made arrange- 
ments for them there ; and Councilmen Flanders and Jones took it upon 
themselves to provide refreshments at other places ; so I was relieved 
entirely from that. 

Q. So far as you know there was no trouble on that account? 

A. I heard no complaint, neither at that time, nor have I since ; but 
there might have been. 

Q. To go back to the origin of this fire, j'ou say that the alarm was 
not sounded until that building was a mass of flames? 

^1. I say this, and wish to be distinctly understood, that iai my ex- 
perience in the Boston Fire Department, covering twenty-five years, I 
never saw such a siglit as was presented that night ; within eight minutes 
from the time the alarm sounded, I was on the ground, and the buildino- 
was literally consumed. I don't understand it to-day. It is a phenom- 
enon which I cannot possibly fathom. With all the fires Ave have had in 
that district and other sections of the city, for the past twenty-fiye years 
that I have been connected with the Fire Department, I never saw the 
time, no matter how inflammable the building was, whether it contained 
oils or any other inflammable material, but what we could enter the 
building itself; but here was a case where you could not get near the 
building. On each side it was all on fire, through the Mansard roof, 
within eight minutes of the time that the alarm was given, — a sioht I 
never beheld before in this city or in any other where I have happened 
to be when there have been large fires. 

Q. About what time Avas it Avhen j'ou arrived on the ground ? 

A. It Avas probably half-past seven. I don't think it could possibly 
have been after half-past seven. It was not more than one or two 
minutes, either wa}-, from that time. 

Q. It Avas about fifteen minutes after what Ave hear was the first sight 
of the fire ? 

A. I don't know when that was. I simply say the alarm was sounded, 



114 



and eight minutes after the alarm I was on the ground ; I think sooner 
than tliat ; but, in order that there may be a leeway, I say I don't think 
it could have been more than eight minutes, I think I could get from- 
m}' house to the fire, at the gait at which I went, in eight minutes. 

Q. From the testimony we had at the beginning, it appears that the 
building was pretty well on fire before the alarm was given? 

A. It must have been. 

Q. I didn't know but, from the manner in which you spoke, you bad 
some suspicion of wrong somewhere? 

A. It is simply this : I don't understand to-day, and cannot compre- 
hend, how this building, all the rooms up and down, in every part of the 
building, could be one perfect furnace in itself in so short a time. I 
never experienced such a result. Whether it be liquor, oil, japan, or 
varnish, I never experienced such a result before that night. 

Q. May it not be partially explained upon the theory that it took in 
the basement and went up the elevator? 

A. No, sir ; you could not explain it to my satisfaction in such a way. 
If the fire had originated in any one part of that building, it would have 
burned a long time among the merchandise before there would have been 
a sufficient amount of heat generated to have ignited it in every part and 
to have made it present the appearance which it did present upon my 
arrival. It had thrown out every pane of glass in that building ; the fire 
was on the top floor the very moment it was on the basement floor ; and 
it was in the front part of the room at the same moment it was in the 
rear of the room ; the basement, and the several stories, and every part 
of that building, were on fire at the same time. That is my opinion about 
it. Whether it is worth anything or not, I don't know. There was 9, 
fire in another building in that vicinit}', some years ago, and the fire was 
in every story, and the whole building was one perfect sheet of flame , 
one small dash of water put out every mite of the flames ; but there was 
not a single piece of goods in that part of the building that was scorched ; 
and, to my mind, it indicated that the}^ had been covered with alcohol. 
I don't know how you could get fire enough to consume a building in so 
short a time. Spontaneous combustion never would do it. I don't 
know how a fire would ignite at a furnace and go up a hatchway or stair- 
way, I don't care how wide it may be, and produce the etfect that was 
apparent here. I don't see how the flame going up through that hatch- 
way could drive the fire each way at the same time, and literally burn 
up everything in so short a space of time. If the fire commenced in the 
basement and burned up through this hatchway, the extreme height of 
this building would have caused, in my judgment, a draft so strong in 
itself that tiie fiame would have ascended, as in the case of a tall chim- 
ney. And this elevator or hatchway would be to that building the same 
as that chimney, and the spreading of the fire on the diflerent fioors would 
be caused by the intense heat, and not by the flame, as that would rush 
to the highest point. I never saw any such thing before, and I have had 
some considerable experience in this city. I have been to oakum fires, 
and oil fires, and lead fires, and fires of flour mills, and everything of the 
kind, — cotton fires, but I never saw anything like this; and I don't 
think there is a man in the Fire Department who ever did. 

Q. After leaving the spot where the fire broke out, how long was it 



115 

before it crossed the street, at the corner of Otis street, after j'ou got 
there ? 

A. Within three minutes (I think it was) after I got there, I observed 
the fire across Summer street ; tlie third store on Devonshire street was 
on fire on the roof, and I called the attention of Engineer Regan to the 
fact, and gave him orders to take his stream and attack the fire there ; 
and sent a messenger for Engine 8 and located her there to meet that 
emergency, on the leeward of the fire. 

Q. Did you get any water up there ? 

A. I am sorry to say, I coitld not. 

Q. Was that the building where you put up your spliced ladder? 

A. Ko, sir ; I put that up on Devonshire street. I don't know but 
that there was one put up by some engineer below. There might have 
been and there might not. The first principle, in fighting a fire, is to 
make as direct and as close an application of the water as possible. 
It has been a great study with the members of the Board of Engineers 
how to direct our water upon the burning mass itself in the building and 
not to waste one drop of water. In eighteen cases out of twenty our 
efforts have been directed to the saving of property from destruction by 
•water, as well as to putting out the fire. It is not an unusual thing 
when we have a fire in such a building, to make an opening in the roof 
to let out the heated air and smoke so that we can advance on the side, 
using our cloths to cover up goods, as the greater damage is usually by 
water instead of fire. In all our experience in this district, we have 
never had a fire get out of the building, and seldom out of the fiat on 
which it took ; but in this case, the building in which the fire originated 
was all on fire. There was one building on Otis street that was burn- 
ing upon the inside before it was burning upon the outside, showing that 
the skylights must have been broken by some cinders falling upon them, 
and going down, and setting fire on the inside. 

Q. If the fire had not crossed Summer street at that point do you 
think it would have spread ? 

A. No, sir ; if we could have held it on the key, on Devonshire street 
and Otis street, I have no doubt we could have kept it there. I think 
we could have held the fire on the corner of Devonshire and Summer streets 
and it would not have gone further up than Mercantile Hall, if we had 
had a sufficient supply of water. Captain Green was in there, and I 
have no doubt he could have held that point if he could have had water 
enough. 

Q. You comprehended that that was the key of the situation at that 
moment ? 

A. I did, most fully. If I had not, I should not have said to Mr. 
Delano, of Charlestown, "This is the key of the fire, and if you hold it 
here, we are safe ; if you keep it out of Cathedral building, I have suffi- 
cient force to stop it the other way, if I can get the water ; " but just at 
the time I got the Boston and Charlestown departments massed, the 
water gave out and we could not hold it. Whether we could have 
accomplished it, I cannot say positively, and I will not say so ; but I 
will say this : it is terribly disheartening to a man, when he gets into 
such a position, to find that his water has gone. 

Q. Did you have all the appliances you wanted if you had the water? 



116 



A. Yes, sir. The difficult}^ was, the hydrants were so far apart, and 
we bad no other water supply ; with these hydrants, in an ordinary lire, 
we should have had all we wanted, but in a large fire, the distance was 
so far, and it took so much time before we could get long continuous 
lines of hose to bear, the fire had gone by us. If we had had a line of 
Lowry hydrants down Summer street, we could have made a fight which 
we did not make and could not make under such circumstances. 

Q. In other words, if you had all the water j'ou wanted, with these 
Lowry hj'drants, do you think you could have stopped the fire there? 

A. I think we could have done a good deal towards it, if we did not 
stop it. I will not say we could stop it, but I think we could have done 
a good deal towards it. I don't want to say positively that, if I had this. 
or that, I could have done differentl}', or cast any blame about it upon 
anybody. I simply say, we used the appliances we had in the best 
possible Avay we could. I have felt the inadequacy of the thing for the 
last three or four years, and have not failed to inform the proper parties 
of the fact. It was known by me and by every member of the Board of 
Engineers, and every one who had anything to do with the Fire Depart- 
ment. And I will say here, that when the Superintendent of the Salem 
Water Works came to see me about his water-pipes, I told him about 
this district, and my fears relative to it, and begged him not to get into 
the difllculty that we were in, in Boston ; that it was much easier to put 
down laige pipes while about it, than to have to turn up the streets and 
put in new ones. And I should like to have him summoned here to 
testify to that effect. 

Q. Have you none of the Lowry hj'drants? 

A. We have them in Dorchester, and in East Boston, but we did not 
get them in East Boston until we sent a communication to the City 
Government, stating that we declined to take the responsibility of ex- 
tinguishing fires in East Boston unless they furnished us with the means. 
We stated the fact ; we knew that East Boston was doomed unless 
something was done. We lived in hopes that the good judgment of 
those who were deeply interested would put this section of the city into 
a proper condition. I have labored in regard to Boston Wharf, saying 
there was eight million dollars of property exposed there, and not a 
single particle of water accessible by land engines, and have asked for 
a boat. I got a vote passed authorizing the construction of a boat, and 
a contract was made, and the next City Government came in and re- 
voked it, and gave the contracting parties a large sum of mone}^ to 
revoke it. 

Q. How is it now about Boston Wharf? 

A. It remains in just the same condition without that boat to-day, and 
I have only just one pipe running down there Avith a hydrant which 
would not supply the boilers of my engines without throwing my water. 
A boat has now been contracted for, and is nearly finished. 

Q. AVhen will that be ready ? 

A. In about three weeks. 

Q. When was that ordered? 

A. I think it was the last act of the Council of '7L 

Q. Didn't you use her the other night ? 

A. No, sir. I sent and pressed into the service one of the T wharf 



117 



tng-boats, and used her all the time. I sent for her before nine o'clock 
that night. 

Q. What sort of water-pumps do the boats cany? 

A. The boat building is having the Araoskeag pump. 

Q. What kind of pumps did this one have that you happened to 
find ? 

A. The Blaikie pump, I believe it is called. 

Q. They are put in for just such emergencies? 

A. For wrecking purposes — pumping out ships that have been scut- 
tled ; but they are not what we want to use for fire purposes. 

Q. Did the Lewis Osborn put out the fire on the Hartford and Erie R. 
R. bridge? 

A. Yes, sir ; and saved more than a million of dollars to the City of 
Boston, 

Q. Do you know how long that was burning before she got there? 

A. No, sir : I can't say. There are a great many things I could ex- 
press with a good deal of vigor. You don't know the amount of opposi- 
tion I have met in all these things. One member of my committee 
would say, " We will give 3'ou the boat, but as for any other engine, we 
will wait. We think you have got enough now.". It is an unpleasant 
thing for an Engineer of the Fire Department, when we have a committee 
that don't see fit to endorse his recommendations, to push it over their 
heads. One point in this connection is this : The success which 
attended us in this very district gave us hope and encouragement that 
we never should have this thing to contend with. I had endeavored to 
make each man feel a personal responsibility in this matter, so that they 
might vie, one with another, in their interest and alacrity, and we relied 
upon, and felt such a deep interest in our organization, that we hoped 
and pra^'ed we never should have to meet a calamity of this kind. We 
have been successful and would have been this night had we had the 
alarm when we should have had it. The night was nothing near so ter- 
rible as when the Adelphi Theatre was burned. If the great fire had 
come then, Boston would have been burnt to Chelsea Ferry. That was 
a very cold night ; and water froze in the couplings ; and I had to have 
a line of men bringing hot water from the hotels, to keep them from 
freezing. We had men all along the lines of the houses in the vicinity 
brushing off the cinders. I have published pieces in the papers in refer- 
ence to this matter, and have sent them out to the citizens ; ^or I think 
you will understand that it became my duty to prevent, as well as extin- 
guish, fires ; and^with that object I have been publishing these facts, 
and sending them out constantly. 

Q. You mentioned the dilatoriness of the alarm, as in yowv opinion 
one of the principal causes, or the secondary cause ; would you also 
name, in that connection, the extraordinary rapidity with which the fire 
burned ? 

A. I don't know whether it was the rapidity with which the building 
burned, or the manner in which it was fired ; but one thing I am certain 
of; I never experienced anything like it before. In regard to the mat- 
ter of giving alarms : I went from the City Hall to the burning of the 
Cliamberlain stables. I saw a large smoke, and went down to Haj'raar- 
ket square, and when I got there, there was no apparatus. I met Cap- 



118 

tain Green and I said "Where is the department? "Where are the 
engines? What does this mean?" He said, " I don't know. I was so 
and so ; " and it finally turned out that everybody was so engaged in 
taking out horses, and saving property (there were forty-eight or fifty 
horses in the stables) that nobody had given the alarm. Tliey were so 
bent on doing what they were doing that nobody had thought to give the 
alarm. It might have been so in this case. I don't know how it was. 
In this place, unless it was very quiet, you couldn't hear the bells and 
would not know whether an alarm was given or not. 

Q. Do you mean at Chamberlain's, or here? 

A. Either one of these places, 

Q. Where is the nearest bell to this place? 

A. Boylston Market and East street ; but you might be walking 
through here and the Faneuil-Hall bell might strike, and you would not 
know anything about it. You might be coming up Washington street, 
and the bell strike on the Old South, and the rattling of the carriages 
and the noise in the street would prevent your getting the alarm. I 
think Alderman Cobb was in the government when I brought tliat mat- 
ter before the government, in regard to the alarm. I wanted a very 
large bell on City Hall, and do away with all the other bells. I urged, 
with a good deal of vehemence, that the bells all run into one sound. 
There is a box numbered 72, for instance, at one section of the city. 
The missing of one blow puts us off the track and sends us in the 
wrong direction, whereas, if we could put our ear on one bell, and allow 
the sound of no others to intercept it, there would hardly be any possi- 
bility of mistake. I urged that a steam -whistle sufficient in itself to 
indicate the number of the box could be used at the City Hall where 
they run steam nine months in the year, without any additional expense 
whatever. 

Q. Could you hear a large bell all round in every section of the city? 

A. There are bells which could be heard all over the cit}^ I think a 
bell of the size I recommended, like the bell in Montreal, being struck 
by a person at City Hall with a very heavy sledge, there would be no 
difficulty in hearing. So many bells tend to confusion. I have also 
called the attention of the government to the fact that there was no water 
in other sections of the city. For instance, on Federal street (which 
was remedied afterwards), there were no hydrants except on this side 
of the street. If there was a fire on the other side of the street, all our 
lines of hose had to be crossed over the street, blocking up one of the 
most important thoroughfares, when hydrants on the other side of the 
street would have obviated the difficulty. I called the attention of the 
Water Board to the fact that Lawrence street, at the South End, where 
there was a continuous line of buildings, some forty buildings in the 
block, was without a single hydrant. I am not able to say whether 
that has been remedied at the present time, because I have not been 
up there to see whether one has been put in. I don't know upon what 
principle the Board acts in regard to putting in water for fire pur- 
l^oses. I am not posted on that. I called the attention of the Commit- 
tee on Fire Department, and got a special committee to go out to the 
Highland District on Parker street, west of Tremont street, where there 
is no Cochituate water at all, and not a drop of water anywhere, unless 



119 

the tide is up, all through that wooden district. The sub-committee 
reported in favor of attacliing the hydrants to the Jamaica Pond pipes ; 
but the Committee on Fire Department, after consultation with the 
Chairman of the Committee on Water, said they could not connect the 
h3^drants ; they were not Cochituate water-pipes, and so they remain 
to-da.y. 

Q. What water have 3'^ou there? 

A. Not any for fire purposes, when the tide is out. For years we 
constantly put the matter of East Boston before them, showing that 
there was an entire destitution of water for fire purposes, and that when 
the engines were put at the hydrants they ran right away from the water, 
which only indicated five pounds to the square inch, and it was not 
until after the big conflagration that it was remedied. The Board of 
Engineers, previous to the large fire, said they would not be responsible. 
Then came the fire, then the action of the Water Board, putting in the 
large main with the hydrants. 

Q. Whether, after "you became impressed with the fact that that part 
of the cit}^ was not properly protected, you gaxe special attention to the 
question of some other agent in case water should fail — water, or any- 
thing else? 

A. The matter of powder I have given special attention to for the last 
six or seven years. 

Q. So I understand ; but now I am asking whether you gave any 
definite directions to your thought as to what you would do in a certain 
emergency likely to occur? 

A. In the use of powder? 

Q. Anything that you would do in case water failed to control a fire. 
Suppose water failed entirely, as it may by the breaking of pipes? 

A. In case the v/ater had failed us by the breaking of the pipes, then 
we had the Frog-Pond on the Common. We have means of connecting 
our engines and bringing water from a distance to replenish our reser- 
voirs. We have borne in mind and frequently discussed the subject 
what we should do in an emergency. We have discussed the plan of 
bringing tide-water into our reservoirs by connecting our engines. We 
can take one engine and play through a thousand feet of hose right into 
anothei- steamer, if we keep the stroke about the same, so the hose will 
not collapse. We could carry water the same as we did when the ar- 
senal was on fire. Then I took water nearly a mile. 

Q. In the emergency which did occur, and which was always among 
the possibilities in your own mind, what had been your thought of the 
mode of proceeding? Had you marked it out in j'our mind? 

A. In the absolute destitution of water, do you mean ? 

Q. I mean from the progress of the flames, from the fire becoming un- 
manageable from the height and peculiar construction of the buildings? 

A. The best of protection that I could possibly think of under the 
circumstances was the use of woollens in covering up the buildings. It 
had occurred to me ; and I had thought of it before, to immediately de- 
spatch a corps of men to board with the greenest kind of lumber every 
window and door. That had occurred to me, but I thought the most 
feasible way would be to take carpets and cover the windows and roofs, 
keeping them wet. The steam from them would do much to diminish the 



120 



conflagration. I relied, in case that was to be done, on the police, who 
would be the men to do a work of that kind. We have but eight men con- 
nected with our steam companies, outside of the permanent force, Engi- 
neer and foreman. We have but eiglit men to manage a line of hose 
that may be from 800 to 1,000 feet in length. Each section weighs from 
65 to 80 pounds, and j'ou can imagine the strength that has to be put up- 
on that line of hose to get it up into a building. We really have a 
minimum force all the time, and it often happens that we are one man 
short by sickness. We have but one man to drive a ladder carriage. 
We have got along well enough, but if one of these men was taken sick, 
a ladder carriage or a hose carriage might stay behind, because there is 
only one man. If he should die in the night, nobody would know any- 
thing about it. The fact of it is we have endeavored to get along 
economicall3^ The Fire Department is an expensive department, at any 
rate, and we have endeavored to run it as economically as we could any way 
in the world and give a fair and equitable protection to our city. It is 
very delicate maciiinery that we run ; it is liable to get out of repair con- 
stantly, and in order to keep it up to its maximum strength after every 
fire, there is a great deal of labor for somebody to do. 

Q. Suppose the supply of hydrants to be what it should be, would 
you or would you not think it desirable to have some organization in 
addition to what now exists, under the control of the Chief Engineer, for 
the purpose of checking a fire which required something more than water 
to control it ? 

A. Yes, sir, but if explosives are to be used (I disapprove of gun- 
powder in everyway), I believe that dualin should be used, or some other 
form of nitro-gl^^cerine ; something that is quicker than the coarse 
grains of gunpowder. I believe also that it should be employed in such 
a way, by uudermining the walls, that it would not only have a lifting 
force, but that it would cut or break off the main pieces or supports of 
tlie building, and throw it down in that way. 

Q. In what way would you propose to use the best explosive which is 
known, speaking in the light of your past experience? 

A. My judgment is there should be an alarm which should call out an 
efficient corps of military to give ample protection to the cit}^, and at the 
head of that military should be an experienced gentleman, who would be 
able to use just that corps to do just the work that was necessary to be 
done. 

Q. There must be unity of action in deciding what line to blow up? 

A. It should be an experienced man, whose judgment should be 
brought into requisition in consultation with others as to what they 
could do, who would draw his defensive line and act upon it ; of course 
he would be liable to fail. 

Q. Suppose the law to be as it is now, that experienced military gen- 
tleman would act under the direction of the Engineer? The Engineer 
would decide where to blow? 

A. The Chief Engineer cannot do it himself, except with the aid of his 
Firewards, who must be there in number, and cousequently in using 
the powder that night, knowing the statute, I did consult them. 

Q. Why did you consult the Assistant Engineer about using powder? 

A. The law requires it, and knovving the statute, I called my men 



121 

togetlier because I knew I had no more authority to use gunpowder than 
an}' one of you, notwithstanding they thought the Chief could blow up 
or tear down anything. The Cliief Engineer must act in consultation 
with his assistants, and three of them must agree before he can blow up 
any buildings. 

Q. When you were called to the City Hall in the early morning, on 
Sunday, after you had held conversation with the Mayor, when there 
were many people present at the City Hall, did yon have any further 
conversation then with his Honor the Mayor? 

A. Yes, sir ; in this connection. I thought it very strange that gen- 
tlemen should come to the City Hall and then send for me to come there, 
and ask permission to remove goods, or aid or assist me. I was easily 
found, and they could have found me or one of my assistants, and they 
would have found co-operation in removing goods without taking up my 
valuable time. I felt a little hurt and cross, because I had made my 
arrangements, and the Mayor had approved of my plan, which was also 
understood between me and my committee ; and then to take me away 
just as I had commenced this operation, I felt a little hurt, and perhaps 
I was a little abrupt when I came into the hall, I confess. "When it was 
said, " We want the Common unlocked," I said, " Take an axe and 
knock the gates down." I like the spirit of a member of the City Council 
who came upon the fire ground that night, and said, "Your horses are 
sick ; I have a good horse ; use him if you kill him." That was Mr. 
Moulton, of Ward Nine. I feel that that is the way that kind of work 
ought to be accomplished, without so much formality or going through 
so many forms. 

Q. After the authority was given for the blowing up of buildings, what 
arrangements were made for any definite plan of action? Was there any 
unity of action between these men? There were several men to whom 
you delegated authority? 

A. I confess to a weakness of which I am ashamed, that, pressed as I 
was, I gave authorit}^ to certain men to do certain work without saying 
to them, " You may do it under my command," or my Engineers'. The 
idea I had was, under the Engineers' authority, but I left them to use 
their discretion in removing goods or blowing up when the blowing up 
■would tend in any way to extinguish the fire. I feel very much grieved 
that I should have been so far persuaded as to allow any gentleman to 
do a work of that kind, because I was engaged in the work myself when 
sent for to go to City Hall. I had formed my line, but I say to you I 
had no confidence in the work. I deprecated the use of powder, but felt 
that the experiment must be tried, or the citizens would never feel satis- 
fied if it was not done ; consequentl}^ I was willing to take the responsi- 
bility, although it was against my better judgment that I acted, and I 
confess it. 

Q. There were some buildings, one or more, blown up on the south 
side of Water street, near Congress street. Do you know whether there 
was any concerted action to destroy that line of buildings? 

A. I don't think there was ; I have no way of getting information, 
unless General Benham or General Burt, who have said they did a cer- 
tain amount of work, should point out on the plan that they did blow up 



122 

buildings, and exercise that judgment which we should expect gentlemen 
of tliat character to exercise in doing a work of that kind. 

Q. Whether you urged any work for them to carry out? 

A. No, sir ; because I did not see them. I did not suppose any line 
of action would be followed, only what General Benhara, from the Navy 
Yard (as I supposed when I was in the hall), as a leading man, would 
designate. I supposed he would designate that particular work, and 
would form the base and would make the line upon which all other 
parties would act. I had reason to suppose that would be the course. 

Q. Did you say to him, " Now, General, take charge of this matter"? 

A. No, sir ; no more than I said, " I will give you authority to use 
gunpowder, as Chief, by vote of the assistants, wherever it can be used 
in staying this conflagration." 

Q. Was there any organization among these men ; or any subor- 
dination ? 

A. I cannot say that there was, or not. I don't know of an3\ I 
don't know whether they organized before they went into it. They had 
the authority, and I sent for the Chief of Police to give them police to 
aid them in the worlc. 

Q. Did any of them come to you after that for counsel? 

A. None of them came ; they only sent to me, informing me that they 
were going to blow up State street. 

Q. Did any of them come to you for counsel? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) I would like to ask you a single question. I have 
on my notes, "When the Mayor came on the fire ground, the Mayor 
said, ' Mr. Chief, what are your plans or purposes for staying this fire ' ? " 
" I told hira in as brief a manner as possible." What did you tell him? 

A. Simply that I was on the south line, drawing in my forces. That I 
proposed to make a cordon, and bring up ray batteries at that point. It 
was so far suspended the other way that I could do that. I in general 
terms stated where we were stationed, what we were doing, and what 
we hoped to do, and that I proposed to bring gunpowder to my aid. It 
would be impossible for me to give the words. My general plans were 
formed in studying and observing the fire, and drawing in the lines with 
the intention of closing up the fight as close as we could. 

Q. What is your opinion now, as to the use of gunpowder that night? 
Was the fire stopped ? 

A. Not at all ; but in every instance, in my judgment, it was extended 
beyond what it would have been if gunpowder had not been used. Cen- 
tral street would not have been burned, nor the post-office building been 
burned or injured, in my judgment. I think that is the judgment of 
the members of the Board of Engineers, and the members of the Fire 
Department, who were actually engaged in putting out the fire. I don't 
hold my judgment to be prominent above all others, but that is my 
judgment. 

Q. You stated that Monday forenoon, in consultation with your 
Engineers, you decided that the further use of gunpowder would be dis- 
astrous ? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. You say the same thing now? 



I 



123 



A. I have seen no reason to change it at all. 

Q. Do you know of General Benhani disobeying any orders of yours? 

A. I do not, any more than what was told me. 

Q. Do you know of his accepting the responsibility you put upon 
him? 

A. No, sir ; I don't know that any one did so. I have my doubts 
whether any one of them accepted it. 

Q. Didn't GenerarBnrt? 

A. I have no knowledge of his accepting anything. They desired to 
organize one hundred men, under the command of six, or eight, or ten 
gentlemen, for the sole purpose of the removal of goods, and saving 
property, and, I supposed, to do what other work could be done, even 
to the use of gunpowder to stay the conflagration. I availed myself 
of their assistance very readily, but I am sorry that I gave that discre- 
tion into anybody's hands. 

Q. If you were to be called to go through this same experience, 
wherein would you change your plan ? 

A. I have thought the matter over ; have gone over the ground, — 
and have fought it over in my mind, again and again, and I say, 
candidly, that I know of no place where I could change my tactics, in 
any way, shape, or manner, with the exception of the use of gunpowder, 
and that I would not do. If I were to fight that over again in other 
sections, I probably should use gunpowder under other circumstances, 
but in tliis district I would not change m_y tactics. 

Q. You made the best fight you could and did all you could at the 
corner of Otis street? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Whether you can now see that anything further could have been 
done there ? 

A. No, sir ; I don't see how there could have been anything more 
done. I formed the opinion that that was the key, and acted upon that, 
and brought to my aid all the help that I could get to carr}^ that point, 
and I failed in carrying that from want of water, and the high buildings, 
and the inacessibilit}^ of them. All that I can say is, that I have the 
inward satisfaction of knowing that I gave to the city the best ability 
that I possessed with an experience of twenty-five years in the depart- 
ment. I did my best, and I don't know how I could do any better now. 

Q. A person might have done his best and j-et be able to do better 
another time? 

A. I don't know any place where I could have done better. If I had 
known there was going to be such a fire, I should have gone to New 
York, and had the horses and all the paraphernalia. 

Q. If you had known there was going to be such a fire, you would 
have had the apparatus on hand at its commencement? 

A. I should have been on the spot. I should have acted as I have 
done in Boston, when there have been large snow-storms, when I have 
sat all night in my sleigh and have had the drivers sitting on their en- 
gines, and had men out shovelling and clearing away hj'drants. 

Q. It was a very favorable conditioUj added to the real danger, because 
you did not see the necessity? 

A. I did not really apprehend it. It did not occur to me. We had 



124 

met fire in that district successfully, and I was in hopes that we should 
still meet it successfully. I relied on that idea, of course, supposing 
that we could at any time grasp the situation. 

Q. Did you attend the fire on Washington street, at the foot of Corn- 
hill ? 

A. No, sir ; I did not get off my bed. 

Q. You don't know anything about that? 

A. No, sir. I know tlie building. It is a splendid building. One 
of the buildings where you could make a very successful and easy fight. 
For instance, we had a splendid reservoir at Scollay's building ; another 
at Brattle square ; another in Dock square, with hydrants all the way up 
and down. Other Engineers who were at that fire can give those points 
more to the purpose than if I should state them. We met the fire at 
Houghton's, under the Pavilion. The whole floor of the Pavilion was 
on fire, but we met it, and kept the fire within and all round it, and there 
was no trouble in doing it. There was plenty of water there, and every- 
thing went on smoothl}'', and we have met every other fire as smoothly. 
I call the best fire outside of the present fire, that was ever handled 
by the Fire Department, the South Boston fire, where we had twenty 
buildings on fire at a time, and but one building out of the wiiole 
number was burned to the ground ; the houses covered from forty to 
sixty rods of land. I don't hesitate to say, that for management and 
splendid victory, there was no fire in the City of Boston, or any other 
city, that was ever handled better in my judgment, or a better fight and 
victor}' ever won, than b^^ the Boston Fire Department and those who 
came to there assistance at this fire ; and I think the ruins will show it. 
I am willing to base my reputation upon it, as a man who has been 
striving for the last twentj'-five years to make a reputation in that line ; 
and if I have so signally failed this time, I am perfectly willing to 
rest there. 

Q. Do you know Avhether anybody was in the building where a boy 
came and said his father and mother were in a burning building? 

A. A little fellow came to me, crying, and said that his father and 
mother were in the building. 

Q. Do you understand that his father and mother were in the building? 

A. I don't know. 

Q. You never knew ? 

A. No, sir, I got in as far as the first story, but it was impossible to 
go furthei;. He said his father and mother were in there and coukl not 
get out, but I never knew whether they were or not. I led him to a 
place of safety at that time, and proceeded to clear the buildings the 
other way. 

DEXTER R. DEARING, sivorn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) What is your position in the Fire Depart- 
ment? 

A. I am engineer of Steamer No, 4. 

Q. Tell us all that happened on the night of the 9th, and the first thing 
3'ou knew about the fire. 

A. The first thing I knew about the fire was as I was sitting in my 
bouse. I got the alarm in the usual way. 



125 



Q. Where is j'our house? 

A. It is in Brattle square. 

Q. How soon did you start? 

A. I started right off. I started the hose carriage first. 

Q. Did you haA'e enough to draw it? 

A. I iiad a hundred men on the carriage. 

Q. Did 3'ou go as fast as if you had had horses? 

A. Yes, sir, fully as fast. It was as fast as I wanted to run. There 
were plenty of volunteers. 

I went as far as the corner of Exchange street with the carriage. I 
could see the light from there. 

There were men enough thereto take hold of the engine. Ifwehadhad 
horses we would not have had steam when we got there. But when we 
got there, we did have steam. I was playing two streams inside of ten 
minutes from the time the bell struck — from the time I left the engine- 
house. 

Q. Where were j'ou stationed ? 

A. At the corner of Kingston and Summer streets, until the fire drove 
me- out, 

Q. How high could j^ou throw water? 

A. At the first start, I did not get a good stream. I did not get more 
than from ten to fifteen pounds of steam. Tlie hydrant was not very 
efi'ective. But we had to get out of that place. Th-^ wall fell over and 
buried the suction. We had to call on help to get the engine out. 

Q. Do you know where No. 7 was ? 

A. I could not tell you. They started before the bell struck. 

Q. Did you get more steam after a while ? 

A. Yes, sir. I could throw two streams, with the supply of water, 
over that building, twenty or thirt}' feet. 

Q. Did you have a supply of water and steam that enabled 3'ou to do 
that? 

A. Not until I got steam. Then the fire got such headway that the 
wall was coming over and I had to get out of that. Then I shifted and 
went around on to Chauncey street, where I got plent}'^ of water. There 
were two engines with me. No. 20 and No. 18. The}' could not get any 
water at all. M3' suction was the longest and I took all the water. 

Q. How long before you were obliged to move? 

A. I should say it was not over thirty-five minutes after I arrived 
there, before the wall came over and buried our suction. 

Q. How much of the building was burning Avhen you got there? 

A. When I arrived there, the whole rear of the building was on fire, 
and the upper stories both front and rear. The flames Avere coming right 
out fifteen feet. They would almost go across the street. I stayed there 
as long as I could. The Chief told me to stay there until it burned the 
gauge-cocks oflf, and I stayed as long as I could stand it. 

Q. How soon did you see the Chief? 

A. I saw the Chief right away after I got there — the minute I got my 
connection. 

Q. Where did j-ou go from Chauncey street? 

A. Down to Batterymarch street. I stayed all night there at Chauncey 
street. I was on Hovey's building. 



126 



Q. How was Hovey's building saved? 

A. It was saved by fighting the fire with the streams. There were 
men on the roofs with blankets. 

Q. What part did the men on the building have in this saving? 

A. That I could not tell. They would come out once in a while on 
the edge. I had all I could attend to with the engine. 

Q. Did you have plenty of fuel all the time? 

A. Yes, sir, except that after being on Kingston street a spell, I bad to 
burn boxes. 

Q. Did you lose any power, at any time, for want of fuel ? 

A. No, sir. 

We used boxes and cases thrown out of the stores. We used coal 
"while it lasted. Then there would be three-quarters of an hour when we 
did not have any coal, and we would use boxes. They came to us with 
the coal carts a dozen times during the night. Forrestall called out his 
teams and they drew coal to us. I don't think I stopped the engine 
once during the whole night. I would shut off one line, but keep the 
engine running all the time. 

Q. Were you short of water when in Kingston street? 

A. No, sir ; short of steam. It was before I got it up. 

Q. How long did it take to get the full head of steam? 

A. If I was going in for fancy playing, or was out on trial, I could get 
up steam in from two to three minutes. When I go to a fire, I gener- 
ally have three gauges of water, and it generally takes from five to six 
minutes. 

Q. How long did it take you to get up the full head of steam to the 
maximum that j^ou used ? 

A. After she gets five pounds, it don't take but a very few minutes to 
run it up. It might have taken fifteen minutes to get up to one hundred 
pounds and blow oflT. 

Q. How long were you in coming down there ? 

A. Inside of ten minutes, I should sa}', to the best of my knowledge. 
In five minutes after our arrival, we could play the water over the 
building in one line. We could not play in two, because she uses steam 
so quick in playing two streams. When I went down on the low lands 
I got water enough on Broad street. 

Q. Are boxes as good as coal ? 

A. Yes sir, — when the water is all hot in her. I had no trouble in 
regard to steam during the whole night. I did have trouble in getting 
■water, when I worked smart. The draught of water ran so low that it 
would play air half of the time. 

Q. That was at the reservoir? 

A. The other Engineers would come to me and ask if I could not shut 
down one of my lines so that they could get water. I would shift it and 
then the}^ would get water. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) How did the hose work? 

A. Very well. We lost two hundred feet there, right on the start, 
■when I first got there. We got the hose up into the granite building, 
and the fire came out from under the stairs and we had to get out of the 
■wa}'. The hosemen left the line right there and came out. Our hose 
burned up on Kingston street side. I know we lost two hundred feet 



127 

before the building fell at all. I think we carried four hundred feet on 
the carriage. 

Q. Did you have any trouble with bursting hose ? 

A. I didn't burst but two pieces that night, and that was after I got 
on to Chauncey street. It was leather hose. 

Q. Did you have any trouble from wagons passing over the hose? 

A. We did along in the first of it. We stopped that by having a man 
stationed right over the line, to stop the wagons from doing it. 

Q. Didn't you use bridges? 

A. When we went into Brond street, I laid joist along there by the 
side of the hose, so that the wagons could jump right over the joist. We 
did not have any other contrivance except a "jack " for horse-cars. 

Q. Did you have any experience with gunpowTler? 

A. We were not in that section of the city. They did not use it 
where we were at all. 

Q. You don't know what other engines were doing? 

A. No, sir. I had all that I could attend to. 

Q. Was there fire in the building from top to bottom, where you were? 

A. You could see it come up the rear, and the two upper stories were 
all of a light blaze. 

Q. How was it below ? 

A. It had not got down. I could not see it below. Seven minutes 
after I made my connections it began to fall. Then I disconnected and 
stood around the corner. The Chief came to me and called me by name 
and told me to stick to the engines until I burned the gauges off. 

Q. How late did you work before you were relieved? 

A. I worked until Monday afternoon. I have a fireman who can run 
in ordinary times, when everything is going on smooth ; in fact, the en- 
gines are all situated in that way. I laj- down in a doorway and got 
asleep in that wa}' . They played on me and wet my clothes to protect 
me from the heat, and I went home Sunday morning and shifted my 
clothes, and was gone probably an hour. , 

Q. Was it in j^our first position that you were played on ? 

A. Yes, sir. That was with a little small hose that I have. I had 
the driver playing on me. 

Q. Could you have lived without it? 

A. No, sir. I could not have stayed there any time at all. I burned 
my coat as it was, and I was wet through all the time. I have been up 
three nights and three days, and run the engine all the time. I did not 
consider the labor of running the engine anything. 

Q. Was there any trouble at your engine from want of proper re- 
freshments? 

A. No, sir. J. B. Smith furnished us with refreshments. There were 
plenty of neighbors around there that kept fetching us coffee and the 
like, and Sunda}' the Chief ordered refreshments, and the}' brought them 
around there. 

Q. How did the men of that company behave ? 

A. They behaved well. They fought the fire as well as men could, 
like all the rest. We calculate that we have got as good hosemen as 
there are in the department. Our men fought as well as any men could 
fight. I had been on the hose eight years m^-self. I have been fireman 
ten years on the steamer, and engineer two years. 



128 



EUSSELL WHITE, sworn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) What position do you liold in the Fire Depart- 
ment? 

A. I am driver of No. 4. 

Q. AVhere were you when the alarm was given? 

A. I was in the engine-house. 

Q. How soon did you get the engine out of the house after the alarm? 

A. I went out just as soon as I could. We counted the bell the first 
round. The carriage went out ahead of the engine and the engine fol- 
lowed as soon as the carriage got out of the way. I should say perhaps 
it might have been two or three minutes. 

Q. How large a gang had hold of the engine? 

A. I could not say. I should think that the ropes are fifty feet long — 
two of them ; and I should say that there were fifty or sixty and perhaps 
seventy men on. 

Q. Did they walk or run? 

A. They went at a very quick run, most of the way. I got on to the 
seat of the engine and stopped its progress down by the City Hotel. We 
have to use a brake tliere. Horses would hold it back, but men could 
not hold it because j'ou could not get enougli of them on to tlie pole. The 
brake would keep it from going down on to them, until j^ou struck Ex- 
change street. 

Q. How long were you in getting to the fire ? 

A. I should think we were there in perhaps eight minutes. 

Q. Could 3'ou have got there faster if you had had horses? 

A. No, sir, not the way we were situated. We have to go down Brat- 
tle street through this descent, and then the horses can't get their head- 
way again until we get up into Chauncey street or State street. The 
stone flagging slips badly, and 3'Ou can't force them. You can't get any 
headway until you get into Chauncey street. We went, I think, quicker 
through Exchange street and up State street than if we had had horses 
on. 

Q. When you reached the fire, did you have steam up ? 

A. I should think not, because it takes ten minutes to get steam, so 
far as I know. 

Q. What did you do when you got there? 

A. We always drive to a hydrant, throw the reins down, jump off, and 
take the small suction. Every one has his part. I pull out the short 
suction, if the hydrant is within six feet of the inlet of the engine. If it 
is farther, we take one of the large ones off of the side of the engine. 
By that time tlie goose-neck that goes down into the sidewalk is on. The 
fireman takes that. As soon as that is connected, I get the hj'drant- 
wrench and turn on the water. That is what I did. 

After we get the engine connected, then I take my horses and blanket 
them, if it is cold, and either let them stand (if there is no one there) or 
there is a negro that runs on purpose to take care of the hors'es. When 
he is there by the time we get there, I always give them to him. He gets 
on to their backs and exercises them around a small circle to keep them 
warm. Then I go to doing anything about the engine that I can. 



129 



That night we connected, and we found it was so hot that we could 
not hold the hj'drant. It was so hot in making the connections that we 
had to turn our backs to the fire. Then the Chief halloed, I think, 
" Move that engine around the corner, or something." We moved it so 
as to use our long suction. We tried the short ones at first, and it was 
so hot that we could not hold them. Hy his orders we drew around the 
corner, and used two lengths, the short piece, and a twelve-foot length 
on the end of that, which would make it perhaps eighteen feet from the 
hydrant. 

Q. (B3' Mr. Cobb.) What was the condition of the fire when you got 
there? What part of the building was it in? 

A. It was in the farther part. A very dense smoke was coming out 
all over the upper floors. Before we got connected, it burst out so, and 
the heat came down on us so severe, that we could not have held the 
hydrant where we were. 

Then, after we moved ai'ound the corner, the heat was so intense that 
I got out tlie small hose from under the tank, used for putting out tlie 
body of coal under the engine, lest it should burn the wheels. I took 
that out and put it on the connection, and lay down beside the suction, 
and kept wetting it to keep it from melting. It would have melted it 
if we had not done that. A little time after that the building fell, and 
a stone that would weigh a ton came down on top of the hydrant, and 
we lost our water. We saw it coming, and jumped out of the way. 

Q. How long was that after you got there? 

A. I should not think it was twenty minutes, to the best of my judg- 
ment. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) That was after you moved around and 
spliced out that suction? 

A. Yes, sir. 

WILLIAM T. CHESWELL, sworn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) What position do you hold in the Fire Depart- 
ment? 

A. I am fireman of No. 4. 

Q. Where were you when you first heard of the fire ? 

A. I was at home when the alarm was given — at No. 8 Maple place. 
I had just finished supper. I got up from the table and ran into Harri- 
son avenue. I distinctly saw the fire when I arrived in the avenue. 
I could see the light of it, not the blaze. I then went through -Harrison 
avenue into Kingston street, up Kingston and to Summer street. As I 
went across. Hose 2's hose coupled to the hydrant, and the word was 
given, " Play away. Hose 2 1" I kept on and ran the engine as quick 
as possible to assist in getting at the fire ; and I ran to the corner of 
Summer and Kingston streets, and there hesitated over the h3'drant. I 
only Slopped a minute, and then started. The reason I hesitated was 
that I wanted to mark that place for our engine as soon as she came.. 
I started on through Otis place and found our hose-carriage at Bebee'^s 
building. I caught right hold of the rope, pulled the hose-cai'riage, and 
sung out to the men at the head to stop at the corner. They stopped 
there. I then started to assist in getting the engine there. I ran back. 
9 



130 

and met the engine between Franklin and Milk streets, on Devonshire 
street, and I assisted in getting her to that hydrant, corner of Kingston 
and Summer streets. The engine was going very fast indeed. It was 
in a place on Devonshire street where there was a down grade from Milk 
street towards Franklin street. There was not a place on the rope for 
me to get hold of. Each rope was fifty feet long and was chock full of 
men. They were crowded. I went to the back part of the engine and 
pushed. There was a chance, as the hose-carriage was off. 

Q. How long after you got to the corner was it before there was a 
stream on the building from your engine? 

A. Not over three minutes at the farthest. When we got there, we 
did not have steam enough to run the engine. We let the hydrant 
stream run right through the engine, which we can do when necessary. 

Q. How long after you arrived was it before you got to playing with 
a full head of steam ? 

A. Not over six minutes. 

Q. How high did you throw water then? 

A. We threw water over either of the buildings on Summer street — 
the one that was on fire and the one opposite. 

Q. Were the hose carried into the burning building? 

A. I don't know anything about that. It is not nay business. 

Q. What was the condition of the building when you came? 

A. When I came through Kingston, street the whole rear part of that 
building was on fire. 

Q. Was it in all the stories ? 

A. I would not say as to that, but in coming by in a hurry I saw the 
building burning apparently from cellar to attic. The windows were 
broken out. That was in the passage-alley. 

Q. How long did your engine staj' there playing on that building? 

A. Until the wall fell and cut our water off. It broke the goose-neck 
so that it cut the water off from our engine. 

Q. Up to that time did you have plenty of water ? 

A. No, sir. The engine ran awa^'^ from the water. The hj^lrant 
didn't supply the engine. We draft from all hydrants. Most hydrants 
in the city don't give us over forty pounds. It is a very good hydrant 
that does that. We played two streams and we ran from one hundred to 
one hundred and twenty pounds' pressure, on two lines of hose from our 
engine. The hydrant only supplied forty pounds ; consequently the 
engine ran away from the water. We could not get it from the hydrant. 

Q. Was that because the pipes were too small? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Where did you go next? 

A. As soon as we lost the water at the hydrant, we went immediately 
to Chauncey street and connected, and put our suctions into a reservoir. 
Q. Did you have any trouble there about water? 

A. Yes, sir. Once I remember that there was no water in the reser- 
voir ; i. e., our suctions would not reach water, and ours were the longest 
suctions there were. Two engines were at the reservoir — No. 20 and 
No. 18. The reservoir would only supply our engine, our suction being 
the longest. There was once, 1 know, that we shut down on account of 
the want of water. 



131 

Q. Did you have fuel enough all the time ? 

A. No, sir. After we went to the reservoir in Chauncey street, we had 
fuel there all of two hours, I think. We commenced to whistle for coal, 
but none came, and we went into Lewis Coleman's and asked if they had 
any old cases or boxes to let us have. The porter took our men right 
down cellar and told them, " There is the pile. Go at it ! " I used it 
about as fast as three men could split it up. We kept steam up first- 
rate with it. It was the first time that we ever attempted it. They 
were drj^-goods boxes broken up. We did not suffer from the want of 
fuel the least during the whote fire, though we certainly would have done 
so if it had not been for those boxes. 

At the first of the fire, I saw the Chief there giving orders. In the 
morning he wanted to get an engine on Broad street, and we went there. 
We took the hydrant and ran a line of hose oflf through Broad street 
into Water street, and stopped the fire at the corner of Broad street and 
Liberty square. 

Q. About what time did you get control of the fire in tliat spot? 

A. We got home about six o'clock. The Chief told us to go, and we 
went. (The men were pretty well tuckered out.) He told us to stay 
there until twelve or one o'clock and then come out and he would set us 
at work again. I heard that. His idea was to keep the out-of-town 
engines at work a little while and then have his own department come 
in and let the out-of-town engines go as quick as possible. 

Q. At what time were you liberated b}' his order? 

A. The order came in this way : that the Chief says for us to go 
home. We got home just at six o'clock Sunday afternoon. I was there 
all day Sunday. I did not go home. 

Q. When did you feel that that fire was under your control down at 
that point? 

A. It did not burn very furiously there, and we knew when we got at 
work that we could stojD it, with no breakage. Downer's was the next 
building to it, and the men knew they could stop it there. They were 
confident the moment they got there. 

Q. Did you have any trouble that night from the hose bursting or 
being run over? 

A. No, sir. I don't remember of bursting but one piece, and that was 
on Engine No. 1. It was the second stream. It was a piece of leather 
hose. 

Q. What has been your experience in running to other fires? 

A, I ran to two other fires. Once we ran with the hose-carriage and 
not the engine. Tlie other time we went with both. The time that we 
ran with the engine was down in North street, where a member of No. 
6 was killed a short time ago. 

We went down to this fire just as fast as if we had had horses. I 
know that the men spread out and got the other side of the railroad 
track, for fear the engine would run into them. The engine runs as easy 
as a car. It is gauged to the track. 

Q. Do all engines fit the tracks ? 

A. Yes, sir. All but one or two in the department fit the track of the 
railroad. The most of them fit inside ; some oiie wheel inside and the 



132 

other on top of the rail. These last are the best by a great deal, because 
they can turn out so easy. 

Q. When you speak of meeting other engines, had they got to work or 
just arrived? 

A. I could not say. "We went down Sunday morning about half-past 
eight. Engine No. 7's horses pulled us there. 

Q. Did you start from your engine house to the fire before you heard 
the second alarm? 

A. I was at home when I heard of the fire. 

GEORGE W. CLARK, sworn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) What position do you hold in the Fire Depart- 
ment? 

A. I am Assistant Engineer. 

Q. Where were you at the time of the alarm? 

A. I was on Hanover street, coruer of Elm. 

Q. How soon did you go after you heard the alarm ? 

A. It was immediately. 

Q. When j^ou arrived there what was the condition of the fire? 

A. The building was on fire in the two upper stories, the fire coming, 
as near as I can recollect, from nearly all of the windows in the two 
upper stories. 

Q. Was it front or rear? ' 

A. It was on both sides of Chauncey street, and the other street. 

Q, Were any engines there when you arrived? 

A. I found Hose Co. No. 2, and I think Hose Co. No. 8. The first 
had a stream on to the next building and were playing on to the building 
in which the fire originated. I went into the next building. I will not 
be positive about No. 8, but I think they were there at that time. I 
know that I saw them within a few minutes at any rate. I then came 
down stairs and went to the rear of the building, where I found Engine 
Company No. 7. By " the rear " I mean around on Bedford street. 
We reached the rear of the building by some sheds attached to a house 
on Bedford street which runs parallel on Summer. The front of this 
building was on Summer and Kingston, and the back was on a little 
passage running up from Kingston. That would make the other side. 
I don't know which you would call the rear. They are the sheds from 
Bedford street, on the South-east corner. 

Q. What was done there, and how did those engines plaj' on to the 
fire? 

A. I left Engine Company No. 7 in charge of Assistant Engineer Re- 
gan. I then went around on to Summer street, and went on to the roof 
of the building on the side on which the fire originated first. I then 
came down across the street and went on to the roof of the building op- 
posite, to see if there was any opportunity to put water on there to 
advantage. I then came down, and Hose Co. No. 5 put their water on 
the fire from the opposite side. By that time it had caught on the Man- 
sard roofs on the op[)Osite side of Summer street. I assisted in getting 
No. 5 to work, and also in getting Hose Co. No. 3 to work on the same 
roof, and went twice to get more hose to enable them to get nearer the 



133 

fire. I waited until they got water on the fire. The Chief came up and 
ordered me to get streams on the roof of the block opposite the block in 
which the fire originated. 

Q. Was there any hose carried up, to your knowledge, into the 
buildings on the north side of bummer street — corner of Summer and 
Otis? 

A. I could not say whether there was in that building on the corner 
of Slimmer ; but I know that there were streams carried through that 
building or the two near it, and over the roof on to the fire corner of 
Summer and Otis streets. >I believe Otis street is nearly opposite King- 
ston street. 

Q. What appeared to you to be the reason that the fire was not 
stopped in crossing Summer street? Under ordinary circumstances 
wonld you have stopped it at an early stage of the fire? 

A. I should think not, — not with the water facilities in that neigh- 
borhood. We were short of water. It was almost impossible to force 
water from that side on to the fire. It takes time to get it through the 
hose. The hose went up through the buildings. 

Q. In 3"our judgment was it too late to do that when you arrived? 

A. Yes, sir, — in the building that was then on fire, because the two 
upper stories were thoroughly burned out. 

Q. What time was it when you got to the scene of the fire ? 

A. I could not say, because I don't know exactlj'^ what time the alarm 
was given. It was as soon as I could get there from the corner of Elm 
and Hanover streets. There was so much noise on Hanover street that 
I could not count the alarm then. 

Q. How did the engines come in, fast or slow? 

A. That I could not say. I was engaged from the time I got there. I 
was in the building trying to find an opportunity to put water on to the 
fire. It is customary for Assistant Engineers to look out for that. 

Q. Was everything done opposite to the building that took fire, to stop 
the fire there? 

A. Everything was done that could be done. The men stayed there 
until they were fairly driven from the roofs. 

Q. Were you short of water ? 

A. Yes, sir. The streams from the pipes would not reach over fifteen 
or twenty feet at the most. I could not see whether, they were hydrant 
or engine streams. The buildings were on fire on the edges of the roofs. 
The only way we could get water on to that fire was by throwing it on to 
the roof and letting it run over the edge. They wei-e also troubled there 
with hose bursting. In forcing water to that height it is not an uncom- 
mon occurrence for hose to burst several times. 

Q. At that place was there much bursting of the hose? 

A. There was considerable, sir, on the start. The water would not 
play then within more than twenty feet of the roof, not any that I saw. 

Q. If you had had plenty of water, what would have been the usual 
force under such circumstances? 

A. With some hydrants, we could have played twice that distance. If 
the steamers had all the water they could use, they could pla}^ thirty or 
forty feet, and without lifting the hose up either. Still the water, after 



134 



having been forced to the height of forty feet, would not be very effec- 
tive. 

The roofs were flat, and we could walk from one roof to the other di- 
rect. The firemen remained there until they were driven down by the 
heat. Engine Company No. 10, and I believe Hose Company No. 3, 
remained there until they were obliged to leave with their hose to save 
themselves. I will not be sure as to the former. That was on the north 
side. 

Q. When you first arrived, did it occur to you[that the fire was extraor- 
dinarily advanced in the building, considering the time that had elapsed 
since the alarm? 

A. Yes, sir, it did. 

Q. Did you see anything to satisfy your own mind, or what explana- 
tion did suggest itself to your mind as to the cause of the fire being so 
far advanced ? 

A. I don't know as I gave thought to the cause, only I know that the 
fire was rather farther advanced than we usually find it so soon after the 
alarm was given. 

Q. Have you not often put out fires which you found as far advanced 
as that, when there was no wind ? 

A. No, sir, I don't remember ever seeing a building where the fire had 
got so far along. 

Q. Can you now, in looking back upon it, suggest any further expla- 
nation of the fact of the fire's having made so much progress ? 

A. Only that there was some unaccountable delay in giving the 
alarm. 

Q. Where did you go next from that place ? 

A. I remained on the roof on the south side of Summer street, and 
in the building for some time, assisting the company in getting their 
hose on to the roof. I found one stream on the roof on the south side 
of Summer street. When I was ordered there by the Chief, I succeeded 
after some time in getting another line. No. 17's, I think, on to the 
roof; and while waiting for another, I met Engineer Monroe getting 
another up tlie stairs, which made three on that roof. 

Q. Was there much water tin-own upon this fire from the roofs of the 
different buildings? Did the firemen get on many of the roofs? 

A. Yes, sir, from both sides of the street. Later in the night, there 
were several other streams, though I will not state positivel}' as to the 
north side. I think that they had five streams on the roofs on the 
south side of Summer street. I was part of the time on the north side 
of Summer street and the latter part of the time on the south side. 
There were streams of water on each one. 

Q. Where did you go from that point? 

A. I went and tried to find more streams to get on to the roof. I did 
not find them. I could not get hose enough to get the lines on to the 
roofs without breaking up several lines to make one. By that time 
those on the roofs were coming down. They had stayed as long as they 
could possibly live there. 

Q. Was there a scarcity of hose, do you say ? 

A. Yes, sir. 



135 

Q. (By Ml'. Cobb.) At what time was this scarcity of hose? 

A. I could not tell 3'ou that. It was when the fire had advanced 
nearl}^ through the block on the south side of Summer street. Perhaps 
it had worked half or two-thirds of the way down. 

Q. If you had had more hose, would you have had water with which 
to use it? 

A. If we had had more hose, I could have got streams on to the roofs. 
It required very long lines of hose after the first hydrants were 
connected. 

Q. Where would you have gone for the water to attach this hose to, 
if you had had the hose ? 

A. Whatever engines were there at work, they all had lines on to the 
fire, some playing from the streets and some from the roofs. In order 
to get their streams upon the roofs, we would have required hose enough 
to reach from the engines to the roofs of the buildings again. 

Q. Did you use all 3'oar hose at that time? 

A. I could not say as to that. I presume that we did, except the 
spare hose in the houses, which would have to be sent for to get it on to 
the ground. 

Q. Where did j^ou go next? 

A. After we were obliged to abandon the building on the south side 
of Summer street, I noticed that the sparks and embers were flying very 
freely in the direction of the water. It occurred to me that it might 
possibly be as well to take a look at Broad street and see if any farther 
fires had caught there. I did so. I found the sheds and the small 
wooden buildings on Broad street, and also a schooner, on fire in a dozen 
or fifteen different places. I came back to Summer street and got the 
insurance-wagon, with about two hundred feet of hose which I had picked 
up, and drove down there, took a hydrant, and got a stream with the 
assistance of laborers and men in that neighborhood, on to the buildings 
on Broad street. We put out the fire as fast as we could find it there ; 
— I mean the wooden buildings, the sheds and the schooner. It seemed 
so necessary to me at that time to prevent the fire from extending there, 
that the alarm was rung from box 58, hoping that perhaps there might 
be some force spared from the fire elsewhere whom they would send down 
there. But there was no response to the alarm. I went back, and suc- 
ceeded at last in picking up two hundred and fifty feet more hose that 
kept those buildings from taking fire until the horses were removed, also 
to put out the fire in one of them, and also the sheds upon the water 
front. 

We remained until the main fire came to us, and then we had to retire. 
The buildings we put out were afterwards burned. After we were driven 
from there, or before the Engine 7 came down from that corner, I threw 
one stream into the Hartford & Erie freight depot. I ran a second line 
and kept it on until we were obliged to move. We retreated steadily 
before the fire until it destroyed the Hartford & Erie depot, and at last, 
with the assistance of Assistant Engineer Brown, several companies, 
and among them the Hyde Park engine, succeeded in stopping the fire 
two or three wharves below the Hartford & Erie R. R. depot, which I then 
left in charge of the Engineer from Hyde Park. 



186 

Q. Do you know what time it was that the fire was stopped there — 
what time you left there ? 

A. It was my impression that it was somewhere in the vicinity of one 
o'cloclc Sunday morning. 

Q. Where did you go then? 

A. I went across the line of fire on the south side, and found an As- 
sistant Engineer in charge of every point until I got around to the corner 
of Milk and Washington streets, I think; but I am not certain wliether 
that was where I brought up first, or whether it was at the "Post" 
building. 

Q. What was done there ? 

A. I was there accosted by Councilman Bicknell, who informed me 
that he was about to blow up the building on the corner of Milk and 
Washington streets. I inquired his authority for so doing, and he pro- 
duced a document authorizing him to blow up buildings wherever he 
deemed it expedient. 

Q. Did you say anything farther to him ? 

A. I looked at the signature and found that it was signed, " John S. 
Damrell," the Chief Engineer — but not in. the Chief's writing, I think. 
I did not dispute it, however ; I told him if that was his authority I had 
nothing to say, and requested him to wait until I removed the engines 
on the corner of Washington and Milk streets. While I was doing so, 
the Chief himself came and inquired what I was doing. I told him, and 
he told me to hold on. I did so ; and the Chief, I think, then had a con- 
sultation with Mr. Bicknell. But I am not certain. My recollection of 
that is not very distinct. At any rate, it resulted in our leaving the 
engines and putting seven kegs of powder into Currier & Trott's store. 

Q. Did you have anything to do with the blowing up? 

A. Yes, sir. I assisted. 

Q. Did the Chief remain there at the time? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. What was the size of those kegs ? 

A. I don't think I can tell. There were either five or seven. 

Q. In what position did you put them? Were they confined? 

A. The only way we could confine them was to cover them with shut- 
ters. It was on the lower floor — the street floor. In fact, tliere was no 
time to do much of anything in the way of placing the powder there, for 
we were expecting every moment that a wall of fire would fall on us. 

Q. How long were the fuses lighting? 

A. Not a minute. We put the kegs just inside the door, so that we 
could light them and go. Probably it was twelve or fourteen feet. 

Q. How long after you touched them off did the explosion occur? 

A. It was some few seconds. It cracked the wall slightly and broke 
the glass on the opposite side of the street. 

Q. Was any harm done, in the way of spreading the fire, — any hai'm 
except to window-glass? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. Did you see any other explosions that night? 

A. No, sir. They had been made before I got around to that point. 

Q. What time was that ? 



137 

A. I could not say. It was daylight, I think. I should think it was 
somewhere between six and seven o'clock. 

Q. Where did you go next? 

A. I went then, I think, to the " Post " building, and assisted in getting 
two streams on to the roof of that. 

Q. What do you think about the stopping of the fire at that point? 
Was it owing to the construction of the building? 

A. There was no fire in the " Post" building itself. If there was, it was 
so slight that it was nothing to speak of. Our water was all put on to 
the building adjoining. Our hose were carried up over the " Post " build- 
ing clear to the roof, and water used on the roof. We played from the 
roof. 

Q. Was the fire stopped at that point by the water? 

A. I should judge so. The building had partially fallen before I 
reached there. 

Q. How long did you stay there ? 

A. It was but a "few minutes ; until I saw that there was no farther 
need of water on that building. I next went to Congress street. There 
was notliing to be done. Every stream that was on the ground was in 
use. There was nothing more that I could do. 

Q. After that, what did you do? 

A. I went to the Post Office, where I saw the same. Whatever 
streams there were were in good condition ; and from there I went 
around to where they finally stopped it, at the other end of Broad street. 

Q. Did you see any want of fuel that night for steam fire-engines? 

A. I did not see anything of the kind, though I heard that one 
engine was short. I heard of that since, not at that time. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) Do you know anything about the fire Sunday 
night or Monday morning? 

A. Yes, sir. I know that I was there at work until, perhaps, the 
middle of the next forenoon. I got there as soon as I could walk there 
after I heard the alarm. I was unable to run. I had been on duty then 
from the time the fire started on Saturday evening until within two and 
a-half hours from the time the alarm struck after the explosion Monday 
morning. 

Q. What time did you go home Sunday night? 

A. It was from eight o'clock to half-past eight, I believe. I will not 
say for certain. 

Q. Were you present, at the fire at Rand & Avery's establish- 
ment? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Was not that a very furious fire? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Did it look as threatening when you first got there as this other 
fire? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. The building is higher than the other one, is it not? 

A. I could not say, but I think not ; not from the Cornhill side. It 
may be from the Brattle-street side. 

Q. What was the difference between the fire here and down there, 
when you first got there ? 



138 

A. They had got to work wlien I got to Rand & Avery's. No. 4 
was there before the alarm was given. Their house is within a stone's 
throw — next to the old Brattle-street Church. 

Q. Is there some difference in the supply of water there? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Did it look as threatening at any time as the other? 

A. That I could not say, because I immediately went into the build- 
ing below, as I stated that I did at the other fire, to see whether water 
could be used to advantage. 

Q. What in regard to the supply of water? 

A. The supply was greater. It was sufficient to do good service. 

Q. (B}' Mr. Cobb.) Do you know what Engineer got to this fire at 
Rand & Avery's first? 

A. Well, I don't know whether any one was there ahead of me or not. 
Engine Company No. 4 were there first ; Hose Co. No. 1 should be the 
next, and I presume they were. Quite a number of soldiers were on 
duty there. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) In the great fire, do you think that everything 
was done that could be done fight it? 

A. So far as I could judge, yes, sir. 

Q. Did the men behave well ? 

A, Yes, sir. 

Q. Suppose the same thing were to happen again, do you think of any- 
thing which was here left undone, which you could do to stop the fire? 

A. No,, sir; not in the vicinity where I was most of the time. The 
other parts I could not say anything about. 

Q. What do you think was the effect of that use of time, so far as it 
came under your observation ? 

A. I consider it worse than useless. We lost the time at any rate. 

Adjourned to Wednesdaj^, Dec. 4th, at three p. m. 



139 



FOURTH DAY. 

Wednesday, December 4th. 

WILLIAM B. CLARK, sioorn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Where do you live? 

A. At iSTo. 23 Kingston street. 

Q. Tell us when you first saw this fire. 

A. At ten minutes past seven o'clock, as near as I could tell. I was 
at home. All of the burning building that my window commanded a 
view of was the fourth and fifth stories. The fire was in every part of 
the building at once. I could not see the other stories which were in 
the same condition, nor could my room-mate. His name is Pierce. 
There was a building between me and the fire. My room-mate was inside 
of the room. I heard the disturbance in the street, jumped on a wash- 
stand and looked out of the window. I heard them apparently trying to 
break in a window. Then I looked out again and the flames came out 
like a flash from every window of the buildmg. I heard the fire-alarm 
after I left the room, but it seemed an interminable length of time before 
it sounded. It seemed to me to be ten or tweh'e minutes after I saw 
the fire. It seemed as if I never saw an alarm so long in coming. I 
had no watch. I sat down to supper at ten minutes before seven o'clock, 
went up as soon after supper as may be, and had undressed myself 
ready to redress, which would have taken me about ten minutes. 

Q. By " alarm " do you mean cr}' of fire or striking of the bell? 

A. Tlie fire-alarm must have been ten or fifteen minutes later, as near 
as I could tell. I had no intention of going until I saw how great the 
fire was going to be. 

Q. Did you hear any cr3nng out of " Fire " ? 

A. Yes, sir. I heard the yell " Fire " in the street, once or twice 
repeated. 

Q. Did you see the engines coming to the fire? 

^1. I was the first one in the building, so that I did not see them as 
they arrived. I turned to my room-mate and said, " George, you had 
better go in and get your books out." I waited until the alarm sounded. 
I went with what clothes I had. I walked up and down the building 
four or five times and then turned to go up to the door again, and 
Mr. Damrell, the Chief Engineer, and an axe-man came up behind 
me, and the axe-man began breaking the door in. Mr. Damrell or- 
dered the people out of the way of his axe. The axe-man went 
through and unbolted the door, and Mr. Damrell, two other men 
and myself, with considerable effort, pushed the door open. I 
sta3'ed to clear away the litter, so tliat the door would open wide. I 
turned and looked up the stairs, and all up stairs was one mass of 
fire. I stepped into Damon, Temple & Co.'s, and that was one mass of 
flames the whole length of the building. All that time the hose was 



140 



being brought into the building, and, there being an insufficiency of 
men to handle the hose, I took hold and helped bring it up. That was 
at the door that leads into Alexander K. Young's. 

Q. Was there no fire in the basement? 

A. I didn't see the basement, as I ran for the front door immediately. 
The whole of the Damon & Temple end was on fire, and of course the 
lower story must have been as fully and thoroughly on fire when I got to 
Damon & Temple's. 

I turned and saw a crowd coming up Otis street, and they were drag- 
ging something ; I can't tell whether it was a hook and ladder carriage 
or an engine ; but the apparatus was there as soon as I have ever seen 
it in case of an alarm at box 52. Mr. Damrell was there when the 
door was broken in. I should think that he had come up with this 
apparatus, whatever it was ; but he appeared at that time. 

Q. When you say the apparatus was there as soon as you ever saw it 
after an alarm of fire at box 52, do you refer to the first carriage? 

A. I sta3''ed in the building ten minutes. When I came out it seemed 
to me that the steamers were all at their stations as q^uick as they ever 
were. 

Q. Did you see any hose in Kingston street? 

A. When I first went out I did not ; but it was then that the alarm 
had just struck. I ran down from my room, which is at the top of 
the building. 

Q. Have 3'ou often seen answers to box 52? 

A. Not often. It is a box that very few alarms come from. I have 
sometimes seen them from box 43, which is as ne^r to my house as box 
52. 

Q. You referred to box 52 as if it were usual to see the apparatus a 
little later when the alarm was from that box than when it was from 
others. Did you mean to say that? 

A. No, sir. No more than that that was my box. I boarded first at 
23 Lincoln street and then in Kingston street ; so that I have been 
nearer to that box than to any other for three j^ears. 

The time seemed long, but of course the excitement was intense, and 
that would naturally have made it seem so. I don't speak of the time 
as taken from my watch. 

I was in this house of Mr. Rogers's for some time. There did not 
seem to be a sufficient supply of water for the engine, and in the house 
after a while we could draw no water. 

As soon as I found out how the fire was spreading, I took a squad of 
men and broke into the house of Mr. Henry M. Rogers, counsellor, and 
we worked together. Finally the house-water gave out altogether, and 
then it did not seem to come through the hose with the usual force. 
Mr. Rogers's is the only house left on this side of Kingston street. Next 
to that is a granite building, which has been partially taken down. 

Q. On what floor did you try to draw water? 

A. I should say the third floor ; I had never been in the house be- 
fore. I was in the back room. Then, at our own house, farther down, I 
heard them say that the water had given out. 

Q. How did the Chief Engineer appear? 



141 



A. He appeared to understand what he was about thorough!}^ in every 
sense. Of course, there was a natural excitement, which I have alwa3's 
seen in him on his first appearance at a fire. I never was quite so near 
him before. But I have seen him arrive at fires several times. 

Q. Do you think as well of him now, as an oflScer, as you did before 
that fire? 

A. I do, fully. I have no reason to think otherwise. 

DANIEL B. CLAFLIN, sioorn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) "Where is your place of business ? 

A. It is now No. 77 Lincoln street. Before the fire, it was at No. 94 
Summer street, corner of Devonshire. My business is small wares. 

Q. When did you first hear of the fire ? 

A. I was there at work with ray partner, I was down stairs with him, 
blacking m}^ boots at the time. I heard a noise — a sort of outbreak — 
and I supposed that it was a procession that was passing. I went on 
blacking my boots, and then looked over my linen stock. My partner 
was going to New York. We fixed up a memorandum of what we 
wanted. I then went into the other department, and there was a mass 
of jackets out of order. I went to work and put them in order. It 
took me some considerable time. I then looked out the shirts and 
drawers and put them in order. I went up-stairs and we lighted the gas 
in the other part of the store and opened some goods and my partner 
went to marking them. I still heard the noise, and I steppecl out in 
front of the store and saw that there was a fire. The first apparatus 
that came was a hose-carriage and it hitched on to a hydrant in front of 
our door. I onlj'^ give j'ou these details in order to show 3'ou what 
length of time elapsed before I saw the fire. I cannot tell what the 
time was by the watch. This engine pla3'ed on to the fire. It was my 
idea that it could not get the water up to where the fire was. When I 
first saw the fire, it was coming out of the eaves of Tebbetts, Baldwin 
& Davis's roof. In a very few minutes after I first saw it, it burst out. 
In a short time, I had a good view of the fire. I sat there right in my 
window and put the curtains up. Then there came an engine and 
hitched on to the hydrant. 

Q. Which way did the engine come from? 

A. I could not tell you that. I don't know what engine it was. We 
did not suppose that it was coming to our store, and we sta3^ed there 
some time. Finally, both of the hosemen stood right in the middle of 
the street, and I saw those two streams of water going onto the fire. 
The hosemen could only throw the water to the second or third stories 
with the hose-carriage, and it did not do any good ; but the engine could 
get a stream up on to the eaves. It was quite a while before the}' got 
those two streams on together. They would pla}', first one and then 
the other. They would first play into Mullen's and then on to the other 
corner on the other side of Otis street. After it burned down lower, on 
to two or three of the other flights, then the hose could get water on to 
it. Those were the only streams. 

Q. W as it on fire in the lower story when you saw it ? 



142 

A. No, sir. The first I saw of an}'- fire was that it broke out xinrler 
the eaves of Tebbetts, Baldwin & Davis's. It might have been burning 
in bade and probably was, because it was some time before I got up 
there, I should say quite a little while. 

Q. Did you see any fire on the north side of Summer street? 

A. 1 did afterwards. I went to see whether we were in danger, and 
we were on fire then. 

Q. Do you know what time it was when you first saw the fire on the 
north side of Summer street? 

A. No, sir, I could not tell the time. I was too busy to look at my 
watch. 

Q. Did you notice anj-thing about the rate at which the engines came, 
whether fast or slow ? 

A. As I say, I did not see but two streams on that "fire for some time. 
I was busy tying up goods after I found tljat it crossed over and did not 
notice so well. Before that, I didn't see any engine come but this one. 

Q. Did that engine come slow or fast? 

A. I would not say, — because, of course, my mind was taken up 
with the fire. 

DR. HENRY J. BIGELOW, sivorn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Tell us what you know about this fire. 

A. I should say that I knew nothing about this investigation until 
some ten minutes ago, and therefore mj^ memory, probably, will not 
serve me as perfectly as if I had had time to reflect upon my testimony 
before giving it. 

Q. Wliere were you when you first saw the fire? 

A. I was down Summer street. I came from the South end. The 
alarm had then been given. • 

Q. Tell us anything that jon think worthy of being stated to this 
commission. 

A. The first obvious thing was, that the fire was sweeping up from 
the corner of Kingston street to the opposite or north-west corner, in 
spite of the firemen. 

Q. Weve the firemen there fighting it? 

A. Yes, sir. I could see the streams. I got down as far as Trinity 
Church, and below there a little. But the great and obvious thingi 
through the night was the utter inadequacy of the means to the end.I 
The thing that I noticed, wherever I saw the engines and the fire was,! 
that the streams failed to reach the upper story. They broke into sprayj 
and seemed wholly inetfective at that height. The second thing was! 
that, I should say, half the time the streams seemed to be playing at the] 
intervals between the windows, as if aimed at nothing ; or, to give ani 
illustration of it, as if the firemen were tired and had got to do some-j 
thing, and it did not seem to be of much use to play into a window ;| 
and so, as the water was coming, they just let it go. Occasionally there* 
were spasmodic efforts to wet the opposite houses, but apparently they 
were soon abandoned. Occasionally hose was taken to the top of a 
store to play on the next store, but for some reason that was soon also 



148 

abandoned. I suppose the firemen were roasted out. The radiated 
heat was immense at a distance, — I mean against the wind. 

Another thing noticeable through the niglit was the number of unem- 
ployed engines to be seen standing at corners. Another tiling I noticed 
was the wa}' the fire caught from one building to another. A strong 
party-wall seemed to be the best protection. But when one store was 
pretty well burned, the upright roof of the next one (for they were most 
all of them French roofs) began to smoke at a dozen or so small points 
between the slates. After a while, a few little tongues of fire appeared 
here and there — .. 

Q. Indicating that the timber had been roasted between the slates? 

A. Yes. Before the slates gave way, these little tongues of fii'e were 
coming out between the slates ; here fire, there smoke, and tongues of 
flame everywhere. Then came the flame, perhaps not larger than your 
finger or your wrist. Presently somewhere a place as big as 3'our head 
was burned through, and then the whole roof was on fire. Within a 
very few minutes the story below the French roof showed fire at the 
windows. Then quite an interval elapsed, and the rest of the building 
seemed to catch a good deal at once in one or two instances. This was 
the course of the tire. The whole lower stor}" perfectly dark until the 
fire broke out simultaneously from many windows at once, as if the 
ignition had been impossible from want of air, until the windows wei'e 
broken, when the whole burst into fiames. 

The last half of the night, or as near as I can guess, from one to be- 
tween four and five o'clock, I was on that large square in Oliver street, 
because it seemed to be the most comfortable place to look at the largest 
fire. The noticeable thing there was, the absence of firemen and engines. 
While at the head of Franklin street there was a crowd that broke 3'our 
ribs, the people, at the height of the confiagration, Avere dotted about in 
this large square in groups of three or four or half a dozen, quietly sit- 
ting, with large spaces between them. 

Q. Were those firemen that you speak of? 

A. No, sir ; — people. There were no firemen down there, or engines. 

Q. Were there any in sight? 

A. No, sir. I don't remember seeing an engine, and scarcely a 
stream. There was no attempt to save that large building where the Cur- 
riers were. The people were scattered over the place, walking about as 
they would do at a Fair. 

Q. You spoke of seeing unoccupied engines standing at the corner of 
the streets ; do j'ou know why they were unoccupied ? 

A. I don't from my own knowledge. I inferred that it was from want 
of orders. 

Q. You don't know whether it was from want of orders or from want 
of water? 

A. No, sir ; I have not the least idea. 

Q. Were they from Boston, or elsewhere? 

A. That I could not nay. One that I noticed was an outside engine. 

Q. When you saw that the streams failed to be eflective, could you 
judge whether that was on account of want of water or want of steam? 

A. It was want of steam, so far as I could judge. The full stream 



144 

seemed to be directed upwards, but it broke into spray before it reacLed 
the place where the fire was. I am not an expert on this subject and 
cannot state with certainty wliat it was owing to. 

Q. Did you notice any engines wanting fuel? 

A. The engines were screaming about. They said it was for coal ; 
and they were burning boxes. 

Q. Where did you see that? 

A. That I could not tell you. I was walking about the whole night 
backwards and forwards. I should say that it was not uncommon. 
But the coal-carts seemed active, and I came across one or more of them 
driving hard in all directions. 

Q. Can you state the points where you saw engines idle? 

A. No, sir, I cannot. 

Q. Can you state the time when you saw them idle ? 

A. I could not. I don't think I looked at my watch the whole night. 

Q. Were there points on Pearl and High streets where you thought 
engines could have been used to good advantage? 

A. So far as I saw, I should say not. 

Q. I suppose directly to the leeward of this fire there was no use in 
trj'ing to play ? 

A. No, sir. The way I got at it was this (though this is perhaps 
not evidence) : At the head of Franklin street and Summer street there 
was a dense crowd. It was impossible to move there. I followed down 
around the fire : went down first through Milk street and afterwards 
through State street, going backwards and forwards, and got down to 
where it was obviously to the leeward, directed at times by the light 
smoke high up in the air. Wherever I could get to the leeward of that 
smoke I found myself in the line of the conflagration, and knew that it 
was to come there. I went up Channing street and saw it come 
through those wool places there. That was in advance of the 
fire. I went down to Bebee's store and saw it come down there. 
Then I went down further to the leeward down towards Pearl street. 
Then I went down to this place in Oliver street, knowing that it was 
impossible to stop it to the leeward. I judged that that was the policy 
of the Fire Department ; that they considered that it could go no fur- 
ther than the water and that they would let it go to the water, and 
would direct their attention to stopping it where their efforts might be of 
some avail. That was the general impression that I got of it. My 
father had a store in Summer street, and therefore I was interested there. 
You could not but feel, in standing at the head of Summer street, that if 
they would blow up a house or two as it came gradually to the wind- 
ward, that the thing would have been stopped ; or, if they did not blow 
up buildings, if they would wet them down, get on top ot them and 
soak them tlirough with a couple of streams, that the fire would have been 
prevented from coming up the street. 

And then I remember that another thing that I remarked was that 
whoever was in command had a pretty hard battle, because he could not 
be on two sides of the fire at once. He must be either on the Milk- 
street or the State-street side, or else he had got to go up Tremout street 
in order to get doAvn on the Beach-street side. 



145 

Q. So far as fighting the fire directly to the leeward went, should you 
make an}^ criticism on the action of the Fire Department? 

A. No, sir. I don't see what could have been done. The fire roared 
through there. I guess it toolv perhaps eight minutes from the time that 
it took hold of the top of those wool stores before it roai'ed out at the 
bottom. The windows came out and it burst through. The sheets of 
flame were immense. They were exactly of the size of the smoke that 
rolled out, — just as 3fOU see in a coal fire where it is spitting. You see 
the gas now and then ignited in a place as large as a saucer and coming 
out again ; so the flame ignited the smoke, ceased for a moment, and then 
took hold of it again. 

The blowing up of a building was a new thing to me. I got to one 
place, I think at the corner of Congress and Water streets, where they 
said that they were blowing up a building. I turned and walked back, 
and while I was walking away it blew up, and I turned around and saw 
the building collapse. We turned from there up towards State street, 
and were astonished at the glass windows which seemed to be cracked 
for a space as large as from here down to State street, and the sidewalk 
was in some places an inch deep in fragments of glass. It was like 
walking upon a stony beach. 

Q. That was in walking towards State street? 

A. The concussion broke the glass in State street and in other neigh- 
borhoods. That building collapsed and fell successfully. 

I don't see how tliat debris could have burned if it had been thor- 
oughly wet. If you lower the height of what is in the path of the 
conflagration and deluge the debris with water, which is perfectly prac- 
ticable, when you get the matei'ials within the reach of your streams, I 
don't see why they should burn, as the Chief says" after being deluged." 

Q. Was that tlie only blowing up that you saw ? 

A. Yes, sir. We were warned oft' from one or two places, and didn't 
stop. 

Q. How near was the fire to that building when 3'ou saw it? 

A. I could not tell you. I should say it was on the other side of the 
Post Oflfice, a good way. John Sturgis was with me during all that time. 
He is an architect. Perhaps he would have some ideas to communicate 
if you were to summon him. 

Here was one point to which my attention was directed : People 
seem to have asked, in other cities, how the fire could have crept to 
windward. It seemed to me that it was an eddy made by the curling 
around of the flame from that which struck the building next to wind- 
ward. The flame would shoot out to the windward, and then the wind, 
coming from the top of a roof, would carry it in the opposite direction. 

Q. AVas there any considerable amount of wind, except the inward 
draft from all directions towards the fire ? 

A. That you could hardly tell. In Oliver street, we sat in the midst 
of a large empty square, dotted over with groups of people, with here 
and there heaps of boxes of all the colors of the rainbow, with this firs- 
coming on, — the heavens full of flames. You walked about to find a 
place where you could get in a lee. There was so much wind as that. 
It was coming towards the fire in that case. It was oflf at right-angles 
with the wind. Wherever you were, of course you had the wind dra>Yin§ 
10 



146 

in. Th.at prevented you from knowing whether there was wind any- 
where else. 



ISAAC R. BARTON, sivorn. 

Q. (B}'^ Mr. Russell.) Where was your place of business ? 
A. At No. 87 Summer street. 
Q. When did you first notice the fire? 

A. I room at 18 Temple place. I had gone home and just lighted 
my gas, and barely taken off my overcoat, when I heard the alarm. I 
always count all alarms from the fact that whenever an alarm rings near 
the store I go down. I heard fift3'-two strike. There was one of the 
salesmen in the room who came there for his valise. I said, "Frank, 
our store is in that district ; I must go down." I put my overcoat on 
and walked very rapidly down as far as Tompkins' store. He could 
scarcely keep up with me. I saw the smoke there very bright, and I ran 
from there down as far as our store, or as near as I could get to it ; it was 
in Marr Brothers' door-way. I did not think of our store's burning, but 
wished to go and see where the fire was. I saw the fire even before it 
burst out of the windows, — inside of the building. It seemed to burst 
out almost simultaneously in A. K. Young's office and above the office. 
Q. Where was the office? 

A. The office is back of the front room on the first flight ; and also 
they have another store-room in the rear of that. I could not see any 
farther back than that from the fact of m}^ being on Summer street. I 
could not look around the corner any farther than that. 
Q. Do you mean up one flight, or on the street floor? 
A. I mean that it burst out on the third flight. It burst out there 
before it did from Damon & Temple's. 

Q. How soon did you see anj^ engines or hose-carriages there? 
A. There was one engine there, but not playing when I got there. 
Q. How soon did they play after you got there? 

A. I should judge in fifteen minutes or so. There were other engines. 
I could not positively tell, from the fact that the crowd was accumu- 
lating so fast, whether there were two engines that came before this 
engine that was drawn by hand. I know that there were two following 
that, that were drawn there by hand fifteen or twenty minutes after I 
arrived there. That was before a very large crowd had "gathered there, 
and the people cheered them very lustily from the fact of seeing the 
engines drawn by hand. 

Q. At what speed did they come? 

A. They were coming down the street quite Hvelj'', not nearly as fast 
as horses would draw a hose-carriage or engine, but coming on a 
moderate trot. 

Q. Was there any hose-carriage playing when you got there ? 
A. No, sir. 

Q. Did you go into Kingston street? 

A. I could not get there, sir, although the store was at the corner of 
Kingston and Summer. They were verj' arbitrary about letting any- 
body pass, and not fearing the store's burning, I did not see fit to go in. 



147 



I was watching constantly for the boy that carries the ke}'. It was im- 
possible for him to get down to the store. 

Q. Was there anything farther that you noticed specially? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. What time did you think it was when j'ou reached this point? 

A. It could not have been more than from five to seven minutes after 
the alarm — not to exceed that. 

Q. Did 3'ou hear anything about there being any scarcity of water? 

A. No, sir. There was no scarcity, seemingly, from the fact that the 
engines were playing with all ttie force they had. 

Q. Did the streams reach up to the fire? 

A. They did not, sir ; our store was a very long time in catching. It 
caught on the left-hand side, going from Washington street, before it did 
on our corner, which was the nearest. I was on the opposite corner 
from Kingston street, and everybody following after the fire remarked 
that our store was a long time in catching, and seemingly a very small 
stream of water would have prevented its catching. I noticed, after it 
first caught on the roof, they commenced plaj-ing. From the fact of its 
catching on the opposite side of Summer street, they played on that and 
left ours. 

Q. Did there appear to be apparatus enough to play on yours and the 
other too ? 

A. No, sir, there did not. 

Q. Was your idea that they had better let^the other burn and play on 
yours instead ? 

A. Yes, sir. They could have stopped it very easily ; although, after 
those walls fell, there was no chance for our store, because the walls of that 
store crushed in. We had some side-lights on Kingston street, running clear 
down as far as that store ran, to the new building that is now being 
built, and the front window-lights — side-lights which you can observe 
now, even, through the bricks, inside of the building, and the heat, before 
those walls fell, broke the side-lights in our store. I saw the curtains 
burn and saw it well under wa}' before I went to the telegraph office with 
a dispatch to Mr. Glazier, who was in Albany that night. There was no 
hope for our store after those walls fell. If they had kept it inside of 
the wall before that, they could easily have saved that side of the street. 
I don't think that playing on our building would have saved it after 
those walls fell. It drove the firemen away so that they could not play 
in from the side. It was impossible. 

ALONZO HAMILTON, sworn. 

Q. (By Mr. Eussell.) What is your address ? 
A. 21 Kingston street. 

Q. When did you first see or hear of this fire? 

A. I saw it on the evening on which it occurred, after seven o'clock. I 
don't know the exact hour. 

Q. Was it before the fire-alarm or after? 

A. It was after the alarm. That is, I had heard the cry of fire. 

Q. Were you then at home ? 

A. Yes, sir. I moved in town the day before and stayed at the store 



148 

until, perhaps, about half-past six o'clock, aud went home aud took my 
tea, avid then had occasion to go to a drug-store, and I went to Mr. Lit- 
tlefield's, under the United States Hotel and came back. I was out perhaps 
eight or ten minutes. I came up Kingston street and went into the 
house and took off my boots and sat down at the table and read the 
evening paper. It was probabl}' eight minutes from the time that I came 
into the house that I heard the cry of fire. Tlie sitting-room that we 
make use of is in the second story. 1 looked out of the window of that 
room and saw the fire. 

Q. In what part of the building was the fire then? 

A. It was in the two upper stories, i. e. the Mansard story and the one 
below it. I saw no light in the lower stories whatever. I could have 
seen it if there had been a light there. 

Q. What further did you notice about the fire? 

A. The fire, at the time I first saw it, was clear fore and aft in those 
two upper stories, 

Q. (B3' Mr. Philbrick.) Had it burst out of the windows? 

A. No, sir, it had not. 

Q. Had the bell then sounded the alarm? 

A. No, sir ; the bell had not sounded the alarm then. 

Q. How soon after you first heard the cry of '' Fire," did j'ou hear the 
fire-alarm from the bell ? 

A. Well, I could not state the time, sir. It seemed a long while. It 
was probably three minutes, I should think. It seemed a much longer 
time til an that. 

Q. How long after the fire-alarm did you see any engine there, or any 
apparatus? 

A. The first I saw was a hose, which was nearly opposite to my 
house. That was pretty soon alter the alarm. It was but a few minutes. 

Q. Did thc}'^ play upon the building? 

A. I did not notice that they did. It was a long while before the en- 
gine arrived — a very long while before there was water thrown from 
that street on to the fire. 

Q. How long after you saw the hose should you think it was before 
the engine appeared? 

A. 1 was not in a position to see the engine when it did appear; but 
it was a considerable length of time before there was any appearance of 
an engine or any throwing of water. 

Q. Where were you at that time? 

A. 1 was in my nouse, wlncti is perhaps fifty feet below, on the oppo- 
site siile trom the fire — on Kingston street. 

Q. As the engines came, did you notice whether they came fast or 
slow ? 

A. I did not. I did not notice the engines as they arrived. It was a 
very long time before they arrived. 

Q. Did you notice an}- of the other engines when they came? 

A. No, sir. 1 was not in a position to do so. The other engines 
came, I think, by the way of Summer street, and the engine that was 
in Kingston street was upon the same side of the street as m^^ house, 
two hundred feet further down, and just in the turn of the street, so that 
it was not in a position where I could see it. 



149 

Q. Did 3'ou notice anything about the action of the firemen after they 
came, — whether thej' worked well or not? 

A. I tliink the}' worked well after they got to work, but it was a very 
long while before they got to work. 

Q. Can 3'ou give the time by the watch at which they got to work ? 

A. No, sir ; I cannot. 

Q. Do 3'ou mean that it was a long time after they got there before 
they got to work ? 

A. It was a long time before they got there, and a long time after 
they got there before they got>to work. 

Q. Did the}' carry hose into the burning building? 

A. I don't think the}' did. I don't remember seeing any water reach 
the fire from Kingston street until it had burned down into the third 
story. The water did not reach the upper stories. 

Q. .Did you see it when it was thrown by the engine? 

A. Yes, sir. It fell short. There was, it seemed to me, very great delay 
in getting the engines to work. They were short of fuel. They came 
to my house for it. A man came into my house and wanted to know if 
we had any wood. I said that we had plenty down cellar. He wanted 
to know if it was sawed. I said, " Yes." They came to my house three 
times to get wood ; and as many as four, or six, or seven firemen came 
and took armfuls of wood. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) Was that early? 

A. The first was soon after the alarm was given. I cannot say how 
soon. 

Q. "Was it within half an hour ? 

A. I think it was. I can't say positively, because I can't remember 
taking out my watch through the whole night. 

Q. Was it the first engine ? 

A. I suppose it was, but I can't say. 

Q. Do you think it was some of the first that arrived ? 

A. Yes, sir. Not being in a position to see the engines when they 
did arrive, I could not say whether it was the first or second. 

Q. Was that engine at work at that time, throwing water? 

A. I can't say as to that. 

Q. Did they say they were out of coal when they came, and asked for 
wood, or give any other reasons Avhy they wanted wood ? 

A. They spoke of coal, and said that they could not get the coal, or 
that they had not got it. 

Q. Did they take wood from your cellar? 

A, Yes, sir. They took it three times. 

Q. At what time in the progress of the fire did they take it for the 
second time, as near as you could tell? Was it early in the evening? 

A. It was early in the evening, but I could not tell the precise time. 
The fire was all about me, and everything was excitement. I did not 
take out my watch to look at the time. I know that I went to the store, 
and the last time they came was immediately after my return ; and some 
one in the house said that they had come for more wood, and asked if I 
would let them in. That was just after my return from the store. 

Q. Did you notice anything else about the manner of conducting at 
the fire ? 



150 

A. Well, sir, I don't know of anything special, more than what every 
one saw at the fire. 

Q. Did yoir see the Chief Engineer of the Fire Department? 

A. I did not. I don't know him. He was in my store dnring the 
evening, and said that the fire would not reach there. I went to the 
store, and they said that the Chief had been there, and that he said that 
the fire would not reach there, and that there was no necessity for 
packing goods. It was a very short time after that, that we were 
ordered out of the store, because they said that the store would be 
blown up. It was at the corner of Devonshire, Franklin and Federal 
streets, and ran through from Devonshire street to Federal. Tliat was 
the order, viz. : that the store would be blown up ; and we were ordered 
out of the store. 

Q. Do you know about what time that was? 

A. That, I think, must have been between eleven and twelve o'clock. 
I should think it was twelve o'clock, but I could not say about the time 
precisely. 

Q. Your store was burned then, was it not? 

A. Yes, sir. 



ALDERMAN WILLIAM WOOLLEY, sicorn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) What position do j'ou hold in the City Gov- 
ernment, in connection with the Fire Department? 

A. I am at the head of the Committee on the Fire Department. 

Q. How long have you occupied that position? 

A. This is my third year. 

Q. At what time did you first know of this fire? 

A. I was in the city proper at the time the alarm was given, and I 
went down into the immediate vicinity of the fire. At that time the 
third alarm had been rung. I saw that there was to be quite a large fire 
and I started for East Boston in order to send over all the spare appara- 
tus that we had over there. Being located in East Boston, I meant that we 
should not send everything. Naturally on tlie third or fourth alarm 
everything will leave, as the Engineers themselves come over. Feeling 
anxious for that section of the city, I went immediately to East Boston 
so as not to have all our force leave. 

On getting to East Boston, there was an alarm of fire over there, and 
I stayed there until that fire was extinguished, and then came back to 
this city, getting back about ten o'clock. 

Q. When you came back did you leave one engine there at East 
Boston ? 

A. I left one hose-camage there. I left them playing on the fire 
there, with orders if there was no other alarm to come over to Boston. I 
reached the fire I should judge about ten o'clock. 

Q. Where did you go? 

A. I came into Winthrop square. The front part of Bebee's building 
fell just as I got on to the square. 

Q. Tell us what you saw of the action of the Fire Department and of 
the conduct of the men and of the Chief Engineer. 



151 



A. On arriving in Wintbrop square, I inquired for Capt. Damrell, and 
was informed that he was in that immediate vicinity, and found him perhaps 
in one or two minutes. I said to him, " We have got quite a large fire. 
What is the prospect of stopping it? " etc. 

Q. What did he say ? 

A. I can hardly say now what his answer was. It was to the effect 
that he had got considerable of a fire to contend with. He said to me 
that he had telegraphed to all adjacent cities and towns for assistance. 
He requested me to pass down on to the other side of the fire and in- 
struct the Engineers to put c^n the out-of-town apparatus and use it to 
the best advantage ; and for me then to come back and report to him 
the condition of the fire on that side, i.e., the side towards Summer 
street. I passed around up Federal street and so around into Church 
Green square. When I got there, the Freeman's National Bank build- 
ing was burning, and it fell a few minutes afterwards. 

I met there Capt. Jacobs, and I think Capt. Brown and one other 
Engineer (I would not state now who it was) ; it was one of the Assist- 
ant Engineers. I saw what progress the fire was making and gave 
them my instructions which I had received from the Chief in regard to 
concentrating the force, if they could find any available point where 
they thought they could make a stand, and to be sure tiiat all out-of- 
town apparatus, as soon as it arrived, was put in the best position for it 
to be of service. 

I immediately returned back to Winthrop square. I met the Chief 
and reported to him, and he says to me, " I think it is my duty to go 
around on that side of the square and speak to one of the Assistants" 
(I could not say now which one it was ; I did not take particular notice). 
There was one or more Assistant Engineers there. He gave that As- 
sistant some orders, and we immediately started and went around into 
Church Green square. The fire seemed to be making the most progress 
in that direction. When we arrived there, the Freeman's National Bank 
building was entirely burned down, and the fire was raging in what is 
called " Webster's Home," and also at the south of Church Green square 
and the south of Summer street. We immediately went to work and 
got three streams upon the triangular building at that point — one upon 
the roof from a ladder on the opposite side and two on the side of the 
building, in hopes that we might stay the fire, or perhaps save that tri- 
angular building. 

We did not have sufficient time, for the fire drove us away from there. 
It swept across the street and seemed to envelop the whole unburned 
side of that building. It was but a short time before the fire was in 
that building so as to di'ive the men out. 

In the mean time, the ladder which had been put up to the top of the 
building had been removed, and after the firemen had been driven out of 
the building, we found that there was one hose-company on top of the 
building and no available ladder. I started and went down into Federal 
street and got the longest spliced ladder from the ladder cart there, and 
six of us, I think, took it up. We threw it up upon the building and 
the firemen came down at that time. 

The building was then completely on fire from top to bottom. We 



152 

bad at tliat time three steamers, some playing two streams and some one, 
riglit there in Church Green square. 

We found that the fire was getting around us, and that it was getting 
too hot, and we had of course to move the apparatus back again. I 
stayed at that point until tliis triangular building got well on fire, and 
then, at the Chief's request, I went down below, as the report had come 
to us that the wharves there were all on fire — that the cinders coming from 
over the buildings had set them on fire. 1 went down at his request to see 
if that was the case, and to see what force there was there, if any, and 
to come back and report to him, which I did. When I got around there, 
I found that there were one or two buildings or coal sheds on Prentice's 
wharf and Mr. Robbins' wharf and the Hartford & Erie Railroad freight 
depot, and all those wooden buildings there, were a-fire on the roof, with 
no really available force there, other than hand hose, etc., to protect them. 

I came innuediately back and reported to the Chief the condition. In 
the mean time he had sent one engine (I don't know which it was) around 
there in that vicinity and a hose carriage. I went back and we got some 
streams upon the fire in that direction. 

We tried to make a stand, but the fire was setting down and the cin- 
ders were coming down like a heavy hailstorm, — whole shingles and 
pieces a yarcT square, — and we found it was impossible to make a stand 
and had to go back. 

Seeing that the fire was sweeping down again, we all looked around 
to see what point there was where there was a chance to make a stand in 
that vicinity. I met Mr. Jones, who was superintendent of the eastern 
division of the Water Works, and asked him if his works were open, know- 
ing that there was quite a yard in there. He said that he had men sta- 
tioned at the gates, but that the gates were not open. I went in there 
and saw that there was a ver}^ good chance to make a stand in the back 
yards of several- dwelling-houses, etc., adjoining it, I think on South- 
street place, which leads in from South street, where the Quincj^ school 
was, and also quite a yard of the Water Works. 

I found Capt. Jacobs andCapt. Brown, of South Boston, and told them 
what my ideas were, and they coincided with them, after taking a hasty 
look at the place, viz. : — that we could make a stand and stop the fire 
there. I said, " Captains Brown and Jacobs, you do the best 5'ou caji, 
and 1 will go around on South street, and see what they are doing there." 

I went around and found on the farther side of South street that there 
were three swell-front houses that had had everything taken out of them 
except the floor tin)bers, and that there was a grand chance. I said to 
Capt. Colligan, " If you will take care of the fire here, I think we will 
take care of it back of us," and we did so, as you may see. 

I was in hopes that we could save the Hartford & Erie R. R. passenger 
depot, but owing to the spaiks and shingles lighting on it, we didn't save 
it. But we made out to make a stand there. I have no idea of the time, 
for I never looked at a watch. I don't know how long this occupied, or 
anything about it. 

When I felt a fidl conviction that we had stopped the fire in that di- 
rection virtually, I immediately came round into Washington street and 
inquired all the way for the Chief. I understood that he was to be seen 
around in Congress street, and found the Chief and His Honor the May- 



i 



153 



or, and Alderman Jenks, and I think Alderman Kicker and Council- 
man Jones. They were consulting in regard to the feasibility of using 
powder. I judged from the conversation that prominent citizens had 
been advising with the Mayor, and telling him that powder should be 
used. He was getting the Chief's opinion. I think that the Chief stated 
tliat he was willing to use it, and that he had convened his Board of 
Engineers as far as practicable, and taken them away from their several 
stations around the fire to advise with him. I understood that they gave 
their consent to its use, but doubted the practicability of it, as did the 
Chief. The idea that he convej'ed was that we had not sufficient pow- 
der at command to make it practicable. He referred to me about it. I 
think my Yep\y was that I did not believe in powder at all. 

Q. Did the Chief make any other objection except that there was not 
powder enough, at that time? 

A. I did not listen attentively to the conversation and did not hear it 
plainly amid the roar of the flames, etc. But what I understood from 
him was that he was generall}' opposed to the use of powder unless he 
had a sufficient quantity to make it available, and parties that were 
versed in the use of it. 

Q. At what time was that, so far as 3'ou can tell? 

A. I should judge that that was about eleven o'clock. It must have 
been somewhat past eleven o'clock. 

Q. What did you do next? 

A. Tlie Mayor, Alderman Jenks, etc., started for City Hall. I think 
I went around and made a compile circuit of the fire and came back 
through Washington street and Summer street and then down Avon 
street and all througii that vicinity, to see how well the parties had suc- 
ceeded, down at the east corner of the fire, where I stated that I stood 
in the first place. I found that thc}^ had succeeded there in stopping 
the fire effectuallj', and I immediately came back and went up to City 
Hall. 

On my wa}"- back, one of the Assistant Engineers stated that the 
Mayor had sent word that he would like to .see me at City Hall. I went. 
The Mayor, the Chief Engineer, Genl. Burt, Alderman Jenks and 
several other citizens were there. Capt. Damrell was at a desk writing 
some passes or orders for parties to use powder. His Honor the Mayor 
said to me, "You are just the man we want to see ; I want you to take 
charge of blowing up buildings in such a street" (I could not now say 
what street it was), "and to take such persons as vou see fit to assist 
you." 

My reply was, " Mr. Mayor, I don't believe in powder. I can fight 
fire better with water than with powder, and would rather that some 
other person would take this commission." I think he tendered the 
same position to Alderman Cutter. I would not say positively. I 
know that he stated so. 

I don't think that I remained in the hall more than five minutes. I 
immediately went out and went down to the corner of Washington and 
Summer streets and down Summer street as far as Hove3''s building. 
The fire then was raging in the building where Mercantile Hall was, and 
I found Capt. Shaw there in charge, and he was of the opinion tluit we 
should stop the fire there, that we should not let it into Trinit}- Church. 



154 

We worked quite hnrd there and tried to concentrfite our force. "We 
lacked for water. Sometimes one steamer would play a good stream 
and sometimes another. There was, so far as my obserA'ation went, a 
general lack of a supply of water all through that locality. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) Is there not a very large main in Summer 
street ? 

A. I don't know but there is, but I have ray doubts about it. My idea 
is that it never has been removed since it was put in there for dwelling- 
houses originall}' ; and I know that all the hydrants in that district, or 
the most of them, are the old-fashioned hydrants, and are connected with 
the main pipes b}'- only a four-inch pipe, whereas we connect our 
hydrants now with a six-inch pipe. 

Q. When j'ou say that there was a general lack of water through that 
district, what streets do j'ou include ? 

A. I include Summer street and that immediate vicinity ; I could not 
sa}' much in regard to Franklin street, because I was not on it except 
the lower end of Winthrop square. 

When I first arrived at the fire, and afterwards when the fire had got 
up very near to Washington street, later in the evening, I had no chance 
(not being in that immediate vicinity) of knowing and seeing whether 
there was really a leak there or not. But my impression is that there 
was only a six-inch pipe through Franklin street, and that the same 
pipe is there now that was laid at the time that Franklin square was oc- 
cupied by dwelling-houses. I mean that over the district burned, as a 
general thing, there was not a sufficient supply of water to supply the 
large force that we had. 

Q. Where did you go after the events of which you have spoken ? 

A. I stayed on Summer street, at the building where the Mercantile 
Hall was. I stayed there with Capt. Shaw and other parties, fighting 
the fire as best we could, and travelling back and forth from the head of 
Milk street around, taking general observations and assisting wherever 
I could, and consulting with the Engineers and doing the best I could to 
keep all parties supplied Avith coal, and to see that everything was work- 
ing well, driving men out of stores where parties on Washington street 
would open doors and allow the crowd to come in and get goods. Their 
general reply was that they might as well have them as have them 
burned up. I told several parties that the fire would not cross Wash- 
ington street. Goods were given away all along on Pearl street and 
Summer street — the west side. 

In one hat-store under the Marlboro' Hotel, a gentleman opened his 
store and asked people to come and help themselves. I remonstrated 
and drove the crowd out, and said to him : " This is not only setting a 
bad example, but you are getting these parties into trouble, because the 
police will arrest all parties whom they meet supplied with goods. Al- 
though the goods have been given to these people, yet the police cannot 
take their word for it. It is my opinion that the fire will not cross 
Washington street. You had better keep your store closed." He seemed 
to be greatly excited. I don't know his name. He set out a whole box 
full of hats at the door. Then they pitched them out into tlie gutter. 
He seemed so excited that he didn't reall}' know what he was doing. 



155 

I went up into two or three stores where people had been looking out, 
and I closed the windows which they had left open, so as to keep the 
sparks from going in. This was on the upper side of Washington 
street. 

Q. Did you notice any want of fuel for the engines? 

A. There was in some cases. We have our fuel wagons whose duty 
it is to supply the steamers. 

It is the duty of No. 7's driver on arriving at a fire and immediately 
unhitching his horses, to go back with his horses and get the fuel wagon 
located there. Also on Salem street, it is the duty of driver No. 8 im- 
mediately to go back with his horses and get that fuel wagon. They 
drive in the vicinity of steamers which have a peculiar blow of the whis- 
tle which calls the coal wagon. On receiving notice that the steamer is 
out of coal, it is the duty of the driver to go there and supply it. They 
generally go over and dump some two hundred or three hundred weight 
of coal alongside of a steamer and then go to another one. 

That night we kept our steamers playing on to the fires as long as we 
could — until we were fairly driven out. In many instances, we had^ to 
leave what little coal we had on the ground ; we would not have time 
to shovel it up. Perhaps the steamer moving to a new locality might 
have but little coal in her tender, and would get out of coal in a short 
time. I noticed it several times in going around among them. Wherever 
I saw a steamer short of coal, I tried to find dry-goods' boxes or some- 
thing to keep them a-going until we could find a coal wagon. I think 
there were one or two steamers that did stop for want of fuel. 

Q. Where were they? 

A. I think we had one steamer down by the Hartford and Erie depot 
that stopped from that cause. It was only for a few minutes, as I gave 
orders to them to go on to any wharf and get coal without consulting 
anybody. If there was no one there to deliver it to them, to take coal 
or fuel wherever they could find it, and not to let the steamers stay still. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) Where was the other instance? 

A. That was later, Sunday morning, in Kilby street. One of the 
Salem steamers, not one of our own, lay still perhaps some ten or fifteen 
minutes from want of fuel. That was all that came under my observa- 
tion, although several times during the night I heard parties inquiring 
for fuel, and Engineers stating that they were about out. 

Q. (By Mr. JPhilbrick.) What stock of fuel had the department 
been in the habit of keeping in store ? 

A. In some of the houses we had facilities for keeping some five or 
six tons beside what was in the wagons. The wagons, to the best of 
my judgment, would carry from two to two and a half tons of coal. 
Some of our fuel wagons are larger than others. We keep them loaded, 
and then have a supply in the houses besides. 

Q. Had that supply been run down in any case during the preva- 
lence of the horse-disease? 

A. Not that I know of. It is delivered to the houses by the party 
who has the contract to furnish city coal. During this night, the supply 
in the engine-houses gave out and we had to go elsewhere. The Chief 
has an understanding with a party to furnish coal for the citj'-, and in 
case of the supply giving out some understanding in regard to getting 



156 



it from the wharf, — so that the coal wagons drive right to the wharf 
and get it. That is also understood by the drivers. 

Q. (B3' Mr. EussELL.) IIow was it with the hose that night? Was 
there any extraordinary trouble by reason of the bursting of the hose? 

A. No, sir. I don't know as there was anything more of that than is 
usual. Of course, that was a large fire, and buildings falling on to the 
hose would cut it. 

Q. What hose do 5'ou use ? 

A. We use all kinds. 1 suppose there is a greater number of hose- 
manufacturers and more competition in that than in any other branch of 
business. Each party claims that his is the best, and we have in the 
office an innumerable number of samples. I always endeavor to buy the 
very best of hose. 

Q. AVhat proportion of leather hose do you use? 

A. I think about one-half is leather, — I don't know but a little more 
than half. 

Q. Whose make do you use? 

A. Mostly Boyd's. We find that is superior to almost any other 
make. 

Q. Do 3'ou use much cotton hose ? 

A. Very little cotton hose. We run a small-sized cotton hose on our 
extinguisher wagons. We have used it in the Department, but found 
that it was not good — that it w^as liable to rot out. That is the case 
with rubber hose. It apparently will look well, but will rot out bj- lying 
still in the houses quicker than it will by being used. 

Q. How did the men work that night? 

A. I saw no instance where the men did not work well. Every indi- 
vidual man appeared to try to do his duty, so far as came under my ob- 
servation. I saw no man that showed a disposition to shirk ; I mean, our 
own firemen. Of course, the firemen from out of town were not so much 
under the control of our own Engineers, or their own (they being away 
from home), as were our own men. But really I saw no disposition on 
the part of any fireman to shirk ; although there were a great many in 
Boston whom we supposed to be firemen, who were not connected with 
any company that was here on duty. They had no apparatus, and 
merely came to see the fire. There were manymen who had badges and 
fire-hats on who were not really firemen and never had been. 

Q. Did you know of any Boston firemen being intoxicated that night? 

A. No, sir ; I didn't see one. 

Q. Did you see any from out of town intoxicated? 

A. I think I saw men with firemen's uniforms on, who were intoxi- 
cated. 

Q. Where did they get their uniforms? 

A. They may be connected with out-of-town apparatus. You would 
see men about the street with gaudy-looking firemen's uniforms on. 
That was a badge to pass them anywhere about the fire, and of course 
they put them on for that purpose. Most of the companies have some 
little badge or number of their own ; and about all the companies have 
uniforms. 

Q. What w\as the conduct of the Chief that night? 

A. The Chief, as far as 1 saw him (and I saw him at all times, — I didn't 



157 

leave the fire until Sunday afternoon about 5 o'clock), was perfectly 
cool, and at no time did I think that he was any way excited, or so but 
what he was perfectly master of himself all the time. I thought he was 
nnich cooler than what 1 should suppose he would be under the trying 
circumstances. 

While speaking of the fire on vSummer street, I would say that I stayed 
in Summer street until after Trinity Church was burned and Lovejoy's 
carpet store was well under way. At that time, the fire had extended 
through into Washington street, to Macullar, Williams & Parker's 
building, and, I think, all the^ way up almost to Milk street. Capt. 
Dunbar had charge from Milk street down to Franklin street. 

We were doing good service there at that place. They had nine 
streams concentrated on Hovey's building, and Hovey's own folks were 
wetting the roof. They had blankets spread, which, had it been done 
by other parties, I have no doubt the fire would have been stopped in 
other localities where it was not. 

I would state here that I heard the Chief say to a party (I could not 
say who it was), or give him orders, to go to the Chief of Police's office 
and ask Capt. Quinn if he could not detail a force of men to take blan- 
kets and sail-cloths and put them over the roofs of buildings to keep the 
fire from spreading. 

I would state that I stayed there on Washington street, my principal 
aim being, with the assistance of Capt. Shaw and Capt. Dunbar, to keep 
the fire Irom spreading across Washington street. That was what we 
were working for, and what was finally accomplished. The fire had 
burned through Macullar, Williams & Parker's place and Copeland's 
confectionery store. If you will recollect, Mudge's store was a three- 
story old-fashioned brick building. It was ti e opinion of Capt. Sliaw 
himself that we should stop the fire there, those buiklings being low. Il we 
could keep it from spreading across into the Marlboro' Hotel, our opinion 
was that there would be no doubt but what we would stop it when it got 
into those other brick buildings, if not save part of those buildings 
themselves. We were making for those, and in my opinion we should 
have saved them, if parties had not come there with powder. When 
the fire broke out of Macullar, Williams & Parker's store, and was in 
the rear of this brick block, a gentleman came there and said that he 
had orders to blow up the corner of Washington and Summer streets. I 
remonstrated with him, and so did Capt. Shaw. We told him that we 
were going to stop the fire there ; that we had the fire under control ; 
that it was not going to cross Summer street beyond Hovey's ; that in 
our opinion we could stop it where it was, or at any rate that we could 
save Mudge's store. We explained to him that there were only two or 
three windows on that end, and that those had gratings, and that they 
only led into the stairway, where there was a fair chance to go right in 
and put out the fire if it should get in there ; and that, on the other 
side, the back side next to these buildings, was a blank wall and a very 
stout one ; that we thought it perfectly safe from Lovejoy's carpet store, 
and that we contemplated putting streams on top. We remonstrated 
with him, and finally he went aAvay. In half an hour he came back and 
said that he had positive orders from the Mayor and Capt. Damrell to 
blow up that corner. Of course we had nothing else t-o do but call the 



158 



firemen away. We limbered up, backed up the entire street, and I said, 
" If you are bound to blow it, then blow it," They put some powder 
into the farther end, where the Waltliam Watch Company's store was, or 
the end next to Lovejoy's store on Summer street, and, after waiting some 
few minutes, it exploded. It did nothing but shatter the building and 
take the front windows out. I said, " I hope you are satisfied." He 
said that he was not. He got some more powder and broke in the front 
windows of Mudge's store on Summer street, got in there, put the 
powder in, set the fuse, and everybody ran back and waited. There was 
no explosion. We waited some four or five minutes. I thought 
it was a lack of good judgment for anybody to send orders down 
there unless they knew the situation of things. I immediately started 
and went up to City Hall and savy the Ma3'Or. The Mayor says, 
" WooUey, I have issued no such orders. I do not intend to issue any 
such orders. I have no means of knowing whether it is right or not. 
I think my place is here in my oflSce, Avhere I can be found by all parties, 
and not at the fire. What do 3'ou think? " I said, " It seems to me in 
that way, viz. : that j^ou should be where citizens can find you. Cer- 
tainly they could not find you if 3''ou were about the fire." I immedi- 
ately returned back to the corner of Washington and Summer streets. 
I found that their powder had not exploded even by that time, although 
three-quarters of an hour had expired. Two of the firemen volunteered 
to go and see what ailed it. I don't know what company they belonged 
to. They were not the men that put the powder there. They crawled 
into the window and said that the fuse had gone out. They removed 
the powder. Capt. Shaw, with my assistance and that of others, 
got the apparatus back into position again. In the mean time, these low 
buildings were completely burned out and there was no sign of saving 
any of them. We concentrated our forces on Mudge's building, and 
you see what condition it is in now. All the damage done to that build- 
ing was done by powder. They put their powder in the lower or street 
floor, and it did not explode. There was certainly, to mj^ knowledge, 
a delay of half or three-quarters of an hour, in the working of the appa- 
ratus, in which more property might have been saved. 

Q. Do you know who that gentleman was ? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Who was it? 

A. If I am not obliged to tell, I don't want to. It was , a 

member of the Common Council. 

He said that he had authority. I did not feel that I had authority, 
nor did the Assistant Engineer Shaw feel that he bad authority, in oppo- 
sition to written authority signed by the Mayor. 

I did not accept the position offered to me, of taking charge of blowing 
up buildings, feeling that I was not competent, even if I had believed 
in the use of powder at fires. 

Q. Do you know how maii}^ kegs of powder they brought out of that 
b aiding? 

A. I think they brought out three or four. In my opinion, the quan- 
tity was not sufficient, provided there had been a necessity for blowing 
up the building. It was sporting-powder, and was in a keg of perhaps 
live pounds. They may have had a wooden keg that had more than 



159 

that in it, but I saw some one who had two of these tin canisters. 
In nti}^ opinion, they might hold five pounds of powder. 

Q,. Tell what you did after that. 

A. We got the force back there and put the fire out. "We stopped the 
fire in that vicinity. 

A. About what time was that? 

Q. I could not tell you. I had no idea of the time. I never looked 
at my wat,ch. I suppose I travelled back and forth from Milk street 
down to Summer street and Hovey's building, as many as a hundred 
times, taking general observations and looking out to do the best I 
could under the circumstances. It was before daylight. I immediately 
came around from there, when I found that we had stopped it at that 
point, and came around through Province street, and went into Cit}^ Hall 
and saw the Mayor again, and spoke with him, and told him that the 
fire was stopped in that direction. I merely stopped a few minutes, and 
immediately went down to the head of Milk street, and ihQ.y were using 
powder. I did not pass down through Milk street. I saw the Chief 
Engineer there, and Capt. Dunbar and others, and came from there and 
passed around to the other side of the fire, around Congress street into 
the vicinity of Simmons's block, which at that time was just commencing 
to burn. There was quite a force of the department in there. I found 
Capt. Hebard in charge, and the Chief Engineer of the Salem Depart- 
ment, with his assistant. I went with Capt. Hebard into the rear of 
Earwell's place, — what used to be the old " Transcript" building. We 
got some streams in there ; went in and looked at it, and got streams in 
there, thinking to cut the fire off in there. It was raging quite strong in 
Simmons's building, and also in the new building between Simmons's 
block and the "Boston Post" building. AVe had got two available 
streams, as good as I had seen on the fire that niglit ; one was from 
Engine No. 5, of South Boston ; thought that we were doing good duty, 
and that we should save Farwell's building and stop the fire in that di- 
rection. Mr.Farwell spoke to me about it at the time, also ex-Maj'or Wight- 
man, and ex-Mayor ; and I told them that I thought we should 

stop the fire there. We were doing good duty when a fireman came uj), 
saying that they were going to blow up Farwell's building. I said, " It 
is not possible that they are going to do so, or they would notify us." 
He says, "They are." I says to Capt. Hebard, "Back 3'our men, and I 
will go and see whether it is so or not." I got in through a window in- 
to a shed, and found that they had powder there, but that they had not 
put it into the building. I don't know the parties that had the powder, 
but I talked with them in regard to it, and they told me that they would 
not explode it without giving us notice. I told them that we had streams 
in the rear, and that it was outrageous, the manner in which they were 
running around with powder and exploding it without notifying the fire- 
men. I passed back and told Capt. Hebard that I would look out for 
it, and told the firemen that there should be no powder exploded without 
their having sufficient notice. 

In the mean time, Capt. Farrar had got another stream in there, 
making three, I saw that they were doing good service. 

In the mean time, I think that the fire had got over on to the other 
corner, across from Simmons's block. There is the Hide and Leather 



160 



National Bank there. The fire had got over into that ; and two of tlie 
Salem Department engines had streams up in the stone building where 
there was a little passage-way that led down, and they were playing on 
to this building with apparentlj^ a good prospect of stopping the fire 
there. I went from there around on to Liberty square and came up 
Water street as far as I could ; found that the fire had got across into 
those varnish and paint-shops there. I had no idea that it was to go 
more than part of the way down Water street. When I came 
around back I found that the streams had been withdrawn, and that they 
had put powder into p^'arwell's building (it is what used to be the old 
"Transcript" building) and were trying to blow it up. They had witli- 
drawn all the streams. In ray opinion there was no necessity for it ; 
and if that had not been done, it is simply my opinion that the fire 
never would have gone into Lindall street, — if they had not withdi-awn 
their force at that particular point, on account of the putting in of that 
powder. It may be that I am prejudiced. I am against the use of 
powder unless it can be used in sufficient quantities to have the desired 
efl^'ect, and then be used by men who are trained to it. There was the 
trouble on the night of the fire. It was done by incompetent persons 
undertaking to blow up buildings. 

After we had stopped the fire in that pai'ticular locality, Mr. , 

the member of the Common Council before referred to, said, " You were 
right." 

I passed by George I. Robinson's store and I came across Alderman 
Ricker. Mr. Robinson called us in and asked our opinion in regard to 
the fire, and we stated to him that in our opinion his store was perfectly 
safe. At that time, I was not aware that the force had been withdrawn 
from Simmons's block and Farwell's building, and that powder had been 
put in there. 

There was powder being exploded all around. We heard the reports 
so often that we didn't pay much attention to them. 

When I got back there I said to Alderman Ricker, " I don't think that 
Mr. Robinson is safe. That fire will come through there." I stayed 
there in that vicinity giving advice, talking, etc., with the firemen and 
Engineers, and then passed around up into Congress square, and found 
the Chief there fighting the fire. I had some talk with him in regard to 
powder, and told him what I thought about it. He said that he thought 
the same thing and that he had stopped the use of it. 

I went back and found the fire raging in Lindall street. The fire in 
the mean time had swept down into Kilby street. I went down there 
and found the Chief Engineer of the Salem Department had come 
around from Congress street in there and had made a stand there. I 
could not give the name of the Assistant Engineer who was there. 
Any gentleman who looks at the ruins will take notice that there are 
some old-fashioned, low-studded, low buildings in there. He said, "Mr. 
WooUe}', we are going to stop this fire in there." I told him I thouglit 
the prospect was good ; that all he wanted was a little more force. 

I went and found Capt. Dunbar on State street. I told him that we 
ought to have another steamer in there, and tliat if we had, we could 
stop the fire there. They did send another steamer there. I don't know 
what it was. We were doing good and efficient duty and in my opini(;n 



IGl 

would have stopped the fire along at the corner where Dodge & Gilbert's 
store was. But the first thing we knew, along came some men with 
more powder, and they were going to blow up No's 25 and 27 Kilby 
street. It was my general observation throughout the entire night that 
in selecting a place to blow up, they took a tall building where it over- 
topped a set of low buildings instead of taking the low buildings below 
it. The low buildings, were the ones to blow up, not the tall ones, in 
such a situation as that. (That is merely my opinion.) A hue and cry 
was raised that they had put the powder in there and touched it off, and 
that there had not been any explosion. I found that the force was with- 
drawn, and of course the fire had its own way then. 

Finally, after waiting, I should think, some ten minutes, there was one 
very slight explosion which blew the windows out of No. 27, I think, 
and it was all done. Then there was quite a talk among these men that 
the ones who put the powder in there did not seem to have any heads. 
The firemen threatened to break their heads if they put any more powder 
in. There was quite a discussion as to whether the powder had all ex- 
ploded. The firemen seized hold of one man and were going to force 
him into the building. I remonstrated with them, and finally one of the 
gentlemen says, " I will go and see whether it has exploded." If he 
did not go to see, they were going to make him. That was the force of 
their argument. 

Finally, he went into the building, followed by one or two firemen, and 
they fetched away three kegs of powder which had not exploded. They 
said that was all there was. They had put in four and fetched away 
three, and yet they said that that was all there was. I said, " Are you 
sure of it? We don't want to get in there and be blown up. It is bad 
enough to have you fellows around here any way, and if I had m3' way, 
I would have you all arrested." I said to Assistant Engineer Smith, 
" If you see the Chief, you say to him that we can never stop this fire 
short of the North End, if he don't stop the use of powder." He gave 
me that as his opinion ; and Capt. Green says, " We shall never accom- 
plish anything with these men running around here in this way using 
powder, because it intimidates the firemen, and with good reason, too. 
It is bad enough for the firemen to risk their lives as they are doing and 
not be liable to be blown up all the time." They said that this powder 
was removed ; they assured me that there was no more, and I said so to 
the firemen. I don't say that I had control of them. We got the streams 
well to work, and a fireman comes to me and says, " They are putting 
powder up into No. 5, which was well up above us, leading up one flight 
of stairs." He said, "Come with me." I found two police officers 
stationed at the door. They were East Boston otficers. One was Mr. 
Thatcher, and the other Mr. Crandall. I spoke to Mr. Thatcher and 
said, " Are they putting powder in here?" And he says, " Yes, there 
are three men in there with powder." I went up to the head of the stairs 
and found three men there. I won't say how many kegs they had. 
They had a half-barrel of it and the head was nearly out, and as I went 
up the stairs I stepped on powder with my feet. I said, " What are you 
doing here?" They said, "We are going to blow up this building." I 
said, "By whose orders?" They said, "By General Benham's." I 
said, " You take this powder out of this building ! " In the mean time 



162 



Capt. Smith had come around, and the officers told him where I was. 
He says, " Capt. Damrell says ' If anj'body undertakes to blow up any 
more buildings, have them arrested, and if you can't arrest them, kill 
them.' " That was the way his orders came to me. I said to these men, 
" Do you take this powder out of here ! " They said they would not ; 
that they had orders to put it there. I said, " If you don't take it out 
of this building, I will have you arrested. It is perfectly outrageous for 
you to have this half-barrel of powder here with the head out of it." 
They would not take the powder away, and I undertook to remove it 
myself; and they took hold of me, and I called on the officers, and 
ordered them to arrest the three men. They did so. I called on the 
firemen and they came up, and we took the powder and carried it down 
on to the sidewalk. I said to one of the men, " Take your coat off 
and cover the powder up and take it away from here." These three men 
went away from the powder, and in fifteen minutes afterwards they came 
back headed by General Benham. He wanted to know by what author- 
ity I ordered that powder out of there. I told him I was Chairman of 
the Committee on Fire Department, and to my best judgment it was de- 
moralizing the men, and I should take the responsibility as Chairman of 
the Committee on Fire Department and one of the members of the City 
Council, of arresting those men or ordering them to be arrested. Said 
he, " Do you know who I am?" I said, "I do not." Says he, " I 
am General Benham." I think I made the remark, "I don't care if you 
are General Damnation, that powder, is not going into this building, and 
if you attempt to have it put in, I will have these men arrested." He 
says, " You have not the power." I said to the officers, " If they under- 
take to put that powder in there, arrest them ! " He remonstrated with 
the officers. But the officers said, " We know nobody but Alderman 
Woolley. We don't know you, and we shall have to do what Mr. 
Woolley tells us to do." General Benham took the men away and 
ordered the powder away. In a few minutes they came back with an- 
other General and an ex-alderman and wanted to know where Mr. Wool- 
ley was. In the mean time, the door had been closed. I had stationed 
men there with orders not to allow any man to come into the building. 
I came and showed mj'self. They wanted to know by what authority I 
resisted General Benham and their people. I told them. The ex-alder- 
man says, " I have written authority from Capt. Damrell. Do you pre- 
tend to assume authority over Capt. Damrell?" There was quite a large 
crowd of firemen gathered around there that had left their apparatus and 
streams. The fire was raging and there was nobody to play water on it 
or do anything. There was a large crowd, and some talk of " Put them 
out. We will stand by you. Alderman Woolley," and stich talk, which I 
did not pay a great deal of attention to. But I remonstrated with them, 
and had quite a talk. The ex-alderman insisted that he had authority, 
and showed it. I had nothing but verbal authority from the Chief, and 
of course his authority was superior to mine. I sa3's, " You can do as 
3'ou see fit, but. General, if this fire goes into State street you are re- 
sponsible for it. You understand what I say, if this fire goes into State 
street, you are responsible for it." General Benham says, " Are you 
willing to take the responsibility of saying it will not go if we do not 
use the powder?" Sa^^s I, "I am. I am not afraid to take it. We 



163 

have our force all concentrated here, and we can stop this fire here. It 
cannot go into State street." They insisted and did put the powder in 
there, but gave me their word of honor that the powder should not be 
exploded without giving me sufficient notice. 

They put the powder up in there, and it hadn't been there but a few 
minutes before I came to Assistant Engineer Dunbar, and I said, " You 
have authority to order that powder out. The Chief is not here, and 
you are Chief here. The Chief is not on the ground, now do you order 
that powder out." He did order it out ; and they toolc it out. When 
they did so, I went around into State street, and there I found a horse- 
wagon loaded with three tons of powder without any protection at all, 
and the tailboard out. I said to the ex-Alderman, " Do you know what 
you are doing? Do you realize what j^ou are doing? Here is a team 
with three tons of powder standing right here in State street, and all 
these steamers in full blast, and all these men smoking right round it. 
Do you realize the situation ? " Says he, " I didn't tliink of it." " Now," 
says I, " my advice is, if you can, that you get that load of powder 
away from this vicinity as quick as you can." That was at da3dight 
Sunday morning. The powder was driven off immediately. Where it 
went to I don't know. I saw no more of that powder that day. In the 
mean time, the force went back to their work, and you see where the fire 
was stopped there. I saw that we were going to stop it in Kilby street. 
I went around into Kilby street, where I met General Burt. He had just 
come from the Post-Office Exchange. We had some conversation ; and 
he wanted to know what I was trying to do, and I told him, " I am try- 
ing to stop this fire from going into State street, that is what I'm trying 
to do, and if I live I'm going to do it." I got along in front of the 
Post-Offlce entrance, and a gentleman says, "Alderman Woolley, the fire 
has got into the attic of the building here. If you will come with me, I 
think I can show j^ou where you can bring a stream to stop it." The 
gentleman went up into the attic of the building, among the rubbish, and 
I saw that the fire had got into the attic. He explained to me that that 
part of the building was put in there by Mr. Dooley when he kept a 
hotel there, and at a certain place was a good strong wall, really fire- 
proof, and that the firemen need not be afraid of coming up in there. It 
was perfectly dark. I came down from the building and met Assistant 
Engineer Farrar, and told him what I wanted. There happened to be an 
available stream right there, and we shifted from Kilby street right up in 
there and took a line of hose up in there. In the mean time, Capt. John 
Regan had come from that vicinity, and the fire had gained some little 
headway. We fought the fire there with some indifferent success. The 
fire burned in through there. One of the steamers from Watertown came 
in and we got their stream in. I stayed by the fire there until we stopped 
it in that vicinity, and that is where we made the last stand, reall3% on 
the fire. Then it got to be along between four and five o'clock Sunday 
afternoon, and I had in the mean time passed down around Liberty 
square and round in that vicinity as far as Fort Hill District, and found 
that we had the fire under control all around that line, and C(nild report 
from the other side that it was under control there. I came into Con- 
gress square and saw the Chief and other parties and saw that they had 
control of the fire there, and at the solicitation of the Chief I went up to 



164 



the City Hall and reported to the Ma3'or that we had virtually stopped 
the progress of the fire. 

Q. (By Mr. Gkeene.) After General Burt met you and asked j^ou 
"what j^ou were doing, Avhat became of him ? 

A. I don't know ; I did not see him again until the next day at City 
Hall. 

I went up into the Post-Office building. He did not come up with me, 
nor did I see him in the building. He might have been there, but I was 
in the building from the time that we got the first line of hose in there ; 
from the time the fire first took until it was stopped. I did not see 
General Burt to my knowledge afterwards. He might have been there, 
but I did not see him. 

Q. Did 5'ou see him before that during the night? 

A. Yes, sir. I did not see him but once before that. I saw him in 
the Mayor's oflSce the first time when I went there, when they tendered 
•me the commission to use the powder. He was there advising Avith the 
Mayor and talking with other citizens. There was quite a concourse of 
citizens and some of the Aldermen. I did not see him again until I 
saw him in Kilby sti'eet. He was one of the parties that insisted upon 
putting the powder into No. 5, where it was taken out so many times. 

Q. Who were the other parties ? 

A. I could not tell. I will only mention General Benham, who 
seemed to be the man in charge, although I have learned since that he 
had no orders from the Chief to use powder ; and I will further state that 
the Chief and the Mayor had both told me that the}- had never given any 
authorit}' for the blowing up of the corner of Summer and Washington 
streets ; that is, no special authorit3^ I don't know who the gentleman was 
who took me into the Post Office ; he informed me that he Avas employed 
in the office. He said that he knew all about it. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) You said that when you got up into City Hall 
the Maj'or saj's, " You are just the man I want to see. I want you to 
take charge of the use of powder"? 

A. He gave me to understand that he wanted me to take charge of 
a particular street. The Chief was at the desk writing these commis- 
sions, 

Q, (By Mr. Russell.) Did you understand that 3-ou were to be one 
of these persons commissioned? 

A. Yes, sir, and I declined to serve. I think Alderman Ricker stood 
there with a little paper in his hand ; and Councilman Paige was there 
and Councilman Bicknell. It was understood that he was to take charge. 
He was calling for volunteers to go with him. I think perhaps the 
Mayor said, " Woolley, you are just the man we want to see." 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) You have stated the general lack of water 
through the fire district? 

A. Yes, sir. It was, in my opinion, from the insufficient size of the 
pipes. 

Q. How long has that been so? 

A. I think the Chief has called the attention of the Committee on 
Fire Department to it, and they have given instructions to the Secretary 
to notify the Water Works as many as three or four times within as many 
J' ears. 



165 

Q. Did you know that fact yourself? 

A. I did not know it from the observance of it. I only knew it from 
what the Chief reported, that the pipes in that street were insufficient for 
the supply of water in case of a fire. 

Q. Have you ever taken any action on that in your committee? 

A. Yes, sir, to notify the Water Board. 

Q. When did you do that ? 

A. I think our records will show, from the files. 

Also, we have had petitions for additional apparatus in that vicinity. 
When the petitions came m, the Chief has laid them before the Commit- 
tee on Fire Depaxtment for their action. They were endorsed by him, 
and it was considered that when we started the Fire Board, which Capt. 
Damrell has been at work upon ever since I have been connected with 
the committee, this additional apparatus would be secured. He has in- 
sisted upon it and tried to have it, and in my opinion would have had 
it, but for the opposition in the City Government to appropriating a sum 
of money. 

Q. Are you now chairman for the second year? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. If you and your associates have known this matter and have not 
taken any steps, it is important for you to show where the responsibility 
rests. 

A. It has come from the Chief that there was an insufficiency in the 
supply of water, in his opinion, and we have taken such action as we 
deemed proper to notify the Water Board, which we always do. 

There is one thing which is a great detriment. The several engine 
houses, etc., should be in the hands of the Committee on the Fire De- 
partment. But they have not a word to say in regard to the location. 
It is referred to the Committee on Public Buildings. When the petition 
comes in for a new building for an engine-house it is in the hands of 
that committee. They will go and look for a lot, and find that the peo- 
ple charge a great price for the land, and instead of locating the engine- 
house where it should be, they go on the outskirts, where land is cheap. 
Therefore our apparatus, instead of being located in the centre of 
the city, where the large buildings are, is on the outskirts, where the land 
is a little cheap. That is one great trouble. Everything pertaining to 
the Fire Department should be in the hands of the Committee on the 
Fire Department. It was so formerly. 

Q. As chairman of 3'our committee, have you ever urged this matter 
upon the City Government, that the Committee on the Fire Department 
ought to be the best judges in regard to the location of engine-houses? 

A. Not in any written report ; but it has been urged and has been 
talked verbally that we should have that charge, and a verbal complaint 
has been made that we could not have it. If we wanted any repairs 
done we had no control at all — not to do the least thing, not even to 
put a screw into them. 

Q. Have you, as a member of the committee, made any statement to 
the Board since you have been a member of it, that this district and 
other districts are uncovered, and that there is no apparatus in fifty or 
sixty acres? 



166 

A. I don't know that I have ofFicially, but it has been discussed in the 
Committee on tlie Fire Department. The Chief has said that he did not 
feel that we were suitably protected in case of fire, and that we should 
have more apparatus in this immediate vicinity. There was a petition 
came in for the location of a steam-fire engine on Atlantic avenue. 
It was laid before the committee and discussed, and the general opinion 
seemed to be the same with all members of the committee — that we 
had apparatus enough, and that when we got a fire-boat on the water- 
front, that would be as good as two or three steamers ; that 
there was no immediate necessity for more apparatus ; that land was 
very high ; that it cost too much, and that a fire-boat would answer 
the same purpose, which it would, to a certain extent. I don't want to 
throw any blame upon the department. Here is a street to be graded. 
The Paving Department go on and contract to raise the grade. They go 
right on and cover up our reservoirs. They re-lay sidewalks, raise the 
grade of them, cover up our hydrants, raise the grade arouud them, so 
that when snow comes in the winter-time they are covered up. They 
will put in new hydrants and remove old ones, and never to my 
knowledge did we have notice that such a thing had taken place. In 
m}' opinion, the hydrants and care of the hydrants and reservoirs should 
be in charge of the Fire Department. The reservoirs are in charge of 
the Chief Engineer, so far as keeping the snow removed in the winter- 
time is concerned ; but they go to work and contract for grading the 
streets and cover up reservoirs and put in new h3alrants and take out 
old ones, and do not notif}' us at all. In my opinion, the hydrants should 
be in charge of the Chief Engineer of the Fire Department. We pay 
the Water Department twelve dollars a j-ear for each hydrant of Avhich 
they have charge. It don't amount to anj'thing. It is only the putting 
of a little salt-marsh hay around them in the fall and taking it away in 
the spring. 

Q. Are you satisfied or dissatisfied with the conduct of the Chief 
Engineer at the fire? 

A. I certainly am satisfied. I think he did all that any mortal man 
could do after I arrived at the fire. What the situation of the fire was 
at the start, I don't know, except what I hear from reports. 

Q. Was there anything which should have been difierent except in re- 
gard to the use of powder and the withdrawing of the apparatus to 
make way for the powder? Was there anything else about the fire which 
you would criticise? 

A. No, sir. There is no other thing which I should criticise. 

Q. From what you have seen of this fire, what in your judgment 
would liave been the issue of it if the water-pipes had been double and 
triple size, and they had had the Lowry h3'drant? 

A. The only opinion I should have would be that the fire would not 
have extended over one-tv/entieth part of the territory it did extend 
over. That is Avhat I should judge from the situation it was in when I 
arrived on the ground. 

Q. Were you at the fire in Cornhill ? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Were you there early ? 

A. Yes, sir. 



167 

Q. Tell us why it was easier to subdue that fire than it was this fire. 

A. I should say that it was on account of the situation of the building. 
There was a chance to get at two sides of that building and play right 
through and through it, which there was not at this other fire. When 
this fire at Tebbetts, Baldwin & Co.'s store was first arrived at, there 
was no chance to get in at the rear of it. We had got to get in at the 
front. Where you can get in on two sides of a fire, j^ou can make j^our 
streams meet right over the ground. 

I was at the State-street fire before any water was put on at all. 
Capt. Dunbar had charge of^both fires, and I was right with him all the 
time, helping to get the line and hose in. I was with Capt. Ricker, 
and helped to get the line of hose up upon that State-street block. It 
is a building where we have stopped a fire once or twice before. 

Q. Does the power of your committee end when you have made repre- 
sentations to the Water Board ? 

A. Yes, sir, that is the end of our power. We have no control at all 
any further than that— only we recommend to them that certain things 
should be done. I know that after the great fire at East Boston, we 
labored hard and incessantly to get the pipes enlarged over there, and 
it was only by persistent eftbrts that we did get it. The effect of that 
large fire at East Boston was to direct attention to the insufficiency 
of the water supply. The pipes were eight-inch pipes. I think those 
pipes in Franklin street and also those in Summer street were only six- 
inch pipes, and they were clotted up so that they would be only equal 
to five-inch. 

Q. Has your attention been called to the explosion of gas at fires ? 

A. Yes, sir. That is wh}^ I am opposed to blowing up buildings. It 
breaks up gas-pipes and the gas lights right oflf and the fire blazes right 
up fresh, unless you have force enough to wet those ruins down at once. 

Q. Should there not something be devised to shut off the gas? 

A. Yes, sir, there should be a stop cock at the corner of every street, 
so that they can shut the gas right off"; it is done in other cities. I have 
.understood that the Gas Company attempted to adopt that method, and 
will do so after this. I believe they do go round in case of fire and shut 
the gas off in the basement of buildings. But they can only shut it off" 
from one building at a time in that way. They can only shut it off" at 
the base of each building. 

Q. How long have you been connected Avith the Boston Fire Depart- 
ment ? 

A. I have been a member of the Boston Fire Department, directly or 
indirectly, about twenty-three years. 

Adjourned to Wednesday evening. 



168 



WEDNESDAY NIGHT. 
RUFUS B. FARRAR. sworn. 

Q. (B}' Mr. Russell.) What position do you hold in the Fire Depart- 
ment ? 

A. I am Assistant Engineer. 

Q. Where were _you when the fire broke out? 

A. I thinlc I was pretty near Doctor Boyden's, on Myrtle street. I 
might have been opposite Barnard's stable. 

Q. Was your attention first called by the alarm ? 

A. Yes, sir, 

Q. Did you go to the fire at once? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. How long did it take you to get there? 

A. I should think I was inside of five minutes. I might have been 
four minutes ; it was a short distance. 

Q. AVhat was the condition of the building when you got there? 

A. The three principal stories were all going, and the back side. 

Q. The whole of the back side ? 

A. Yes, sir ; I should judge it was, b}'- the looks of the light. 

Q. Did it burst out? 

A. I passed by the building, and the roof and windows fell in. 

Q. Were an}' engines or hose carriages there ? 

A. Yes, sir ; there were two streams on the fire, one of them, I think, 
was Engine 7 ; the other, Hose 2 ; I will not be sure. 

Q. Were they at work then ? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Had Engine 7 got steam fully on ? 

A. I think she had. I didn't see her ; she was round the corner ; her 
stream came in the back way. 

Q. Do you know how high the stream went ? 

A. I don't remember how high it did go. I don't know as I looked to 
see. I passed b}^ the building. 

Q. What did you do? 

A. Went round up Kingston into Summer. I think the first apparatus 
I came across was Hose Engine 9, of South Boston, just drawing in, and 
I immediately got them at work. 

Q. Where did tliey work ? 

A. They were attached to an engine in the Church Green ; it was 
probably ten or fifteen minutes before we got tliem where we wanted to. 
I went up into a high building, — six or seven stories high, 1 should 
think, — and got a hose on to the roof. 

Q. AVliat building was that? 

A. That was the building that faced Church Green. 

Q. On the north side of Summer street? 

A. As you go down Summer street, on the right-hand side, where the 
church used to stand. 

Q. You got a hose on to the top of that ? 

A. Yes, sir. 



169 



Q. Where did 3'ou throw water? 

A- Into the corner building ; and as the fire increased it drove me 
back from time to time. I made a very good stand on the second build- 
ing from the corner, because it was a little lower than the rest, and the 
brick wall came up there some eighteen inches ; I should think this 
building was eighteen inches lower than the rest, so that the brick wall 
would be up eighteen inches. I was here reinforced by another stream, 
by Captain Clark, Assistant Engineer. He stayed there until the build- 
ing on the opposite side got on fire ; and I found the flames lapped round 
into the building I was on. ttook the stream down and made the best 
fight I could, but was driven farther along. 

Q. What time was it when you withdrew ? 

A. I could not tell ; I had no idea of time that night, more than a 
child. 

Q. You kept falling back before the fire ? 

A. I made my last stand just below that long, low brick building on 
the corner of Pearl and Broad streets, — the lower street next the water. 
That is where the oil was kept. After I was driven down from this, 
some other engineer took the stream and went up to another place, and I 
went down a little further, and took No. 19 engine (she was just getting 
at work; she has to come nine miles), and made a ver}^ good stand 
in several places. I think six times I made her up, and at the foot of 
Pearl street she broke down. Her pump or something gave out. She 
is a small engine. 

Q. Where did she come from ? 

A. She belongs out in Mattapan. It is a Boston engine. It caught 
from there on the oil store. Pearl street was on tire on both sides. As 
fast as the fire struck the buildings the stones began to fall, and we 
could not make any fight. I went down into Broad street and found 
Captain Scott, who said, " I have got a steam tug and I think I can cut 
the fire off here," and I made a good stand there at that time. Engine 
No. 2 of Cambridge came in — a splendid steamer with a splendid set of 
men. I took her, and got her at work, at the lower end of Oliver street. 
I thought I would make a good stand, there and I sent a man clear to 
Hose 2's hose, on Tyler street, to get a reducer. He was probably 
gone three quarters of an hour, or half an. hour, before he came back. 
I then put No. 2 at work, and she took one side of the street, and the tug 
took the other side. The buildings were but one story high. This was 
on Broad street, and there we fought it for about four hours, and stopped 
it there, near the foot of Pearl street. As you go down Pearl street by 
turning to the left you will see where it was stopped. It is between 
Oliver and Pearl. That is where I made my stand. The oil store was 
full of oil, and of course you can never put oil out. The heat there 
was very severe, but we managed to stand it. 

Q. For about an hour that Cambridge engine stood still for want of 
a reducer ? 

A. I should think for about three-quarters of an hour. I had to get 
a man, and send him up there. That was no fault of theirs, that their 
connections were not right. I had that company with me all the next 
day, and I don't want a better company, or a better-disciplined company. 

Q. How did the men behave that night? • 



170 

A. Splendidl3', so far as they came under my observation. 

Q. Were there any exceptions? 

A. None that I knew of; none that came under my observation. 

Q. Were any Boston firemen, that night, or the next morning, in- 
toxicated ? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. When did you see the Chief first that night? 

A. I think he got there about the same time I did. I will not be cer- 
tain. I think I heard his voice. I don't know that I saw him, but I 
heard his voice. I know him very well. 

Q. Did 3'ou see an^'thing more of him that night? 

A. Once, when I was up in High street, putting No. 19 to work. 
The second time he came round, and asked me how I was getting along. 
I told him the best I could, being driven handsomely. 

Q. What was his manner ? 

A. He was cool and collected, more so than I ever saw him at a fire. 

Q. Was he hopeful when you saw him? What were his expectations? 

A. He didn't state anything to me. He asked what I was doing ; 
and I told him, " Doing the best I can." 

Q. Did 3^ou have any trouble, that night, from want of water ? 

A. I did not. 

Q. Or fuel ? 

A. We got out of fuel once or twice. 

Q. Did you stop for want of it? 

A. No, sir ; we used boxes, or anything we could lay our hands on. 

Q. You didn't sufl'er for want of fuel ? 

A. No, sir. When I was in Broad street. No. 2 was out of fuel, and I 
immediately stepped across the street, on the wharf, and took all I wanted. 
There was no trouble about fuel down that way. 

Q. Did you see any gunpowder explosions that night? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. Was not the store next to the oil store blown up, on Broad street? 

A. No, sir. I would not allow it to be done. 

Q. Did anybody try it? 

A. They wanted to, but I said, " I can stop the fire here. I have 
force enough." 

Q. Who wanted to blow it up ? 

A. A gentleman belonging to the Cit}^ Council. 

Q. When did you see the Chief again ? 

A. I saw the Chief when I had got the fire almost out. He came 
down to see me. 

Q. Did the person who wished to blow up the building show you his 
authority? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Did 3^ou i-ead it? 

A. I saw the signature. I didn't look at it much, but I read it. 

Q. The Chief's signature? 

A. The Chiefs signature was on it, and I think there was another 
one. 

Q. Didn't it represent that it was to be done under the direction of 
the Engineer ? 



171 



A. Yes, sir. 

Q. You didn't see fit to give such directions? 

A. I tlioiight I could stop the fire. I had had no experience with gun- 
powder. I never fired a gun but once in my life. 

Q. Did he ask your judgment? 

A. Yes, sir. He put it in this form : He said he thought he could 
stop the fire by blowing up that building, and I said I thought I could 
stop it without. 

Q. You spoke of the trouble with the granite. Describe the eff'ect of 
the fire on the granite. «. 

A. The moment the fire strikes the granite, it begins to crumble and 
fall off. 

Q. How large pieces? 

A. All the way from as big as your fist to pieces weighing one hun- 
dred and fifty to two hundred pounds, according to what the coping is 
made of, and how many projections there are under the caps. 

Q. Does that happen when you don't throw on water ? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Of what size do you say? 

A. From as big as your fist — small pieces — up to two or three hun- 
dred pounds. I saw it that night. I had seen it before, but that night 
it astonished me. I never saw so much of it before. 

Q. Have you seen it in that way, to some extent, in other places? 

A. It always does. 

Q. You never saw so large pieces ? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. Was there any more tlian the usual trouble about the hose ? 

A. No trouble at all about the hose. 

Q. So far as 3'ou know, the hose behaved perfectly well ? 

A. It behaved splendidly. We have a splendid lot of hose. 

Q. Whose leather hose is the best? 

A. We get most of Ours from Boyd — double riveted hose ; tested, I 
think, at two hundred and eighty. I will not be sure. The Chief knows 
better than I do. It is all tested before we acce])t it. 

Q. All kinds of hose? 

A. Nothing but leather that ever I know. 

Q. You were at the Cornhill fire? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. State why that was more controllable than this. 

A. I can state what I did. 

Q. I don't want to go into^jarticulars. 

A. When I got to the fire — I knew, very well, the building, and knew 
there was some heft in it, — I came across a gentleman who is foreman 
of the shop, down below the fire, and he says, '' If you will take a stream 
up, I can show you a little hole in the last stor}^ where you can bear uj)- 
on the fire, if you are quick." We had plenty of water, and I put a 
stream in there, and immediately got another one up ; and we saved it. 
We had no stone to fall on the men on the back or front, and one hose 
was there before the alarm was given ; it was No. 4. I had No. 8's 
stream. 

Q. Water was plenty? 



172 



A. Water was plenty. There are a great man}' h^xlrants in that neigh- 
borhood. 

Q. Did you have any scarcity of water in Summer street, before you 
were driven off'? 

A. No, sir. I went up into that building, — you probably remember 
how high it was — and 1 took No. 9's stream up certainly six flights ; I 
should say that building was eighty-five feet high. I went up, and 
hauled it up four stories with a life-line, and then took it up two more 
flights, out of the scuttle and along one hundred and fifty feet to meet 
the fire, and I got a stream that played certainly fifty feet. 

Q. Where did that stream draw from ? 

A. From an engine at the reservoir in Church Green. The reservoir 
was supplied with a four-inch pipe. 

Q. How much does that reservoir hold ? 

A. It is full, always. 

Q. What is its capacity ? 

A. I have forgotten the capacity of it, I don't know about all the 
reservoirs. It is quite a task to remember them all. It is a good-size 
reservoir, a little larger than the majority. 

Q. Your engine was the only one drawing from that reservoir? 

A. There were four drawing from that reservoir. You understand, 
the moment we set an engine at work, we turn a faucet and let the water 
in. We had five engines on the State-street reservoir without trouble. 

Q. Will a four-inch pipe supply water as fast as four or five engines 
would use it? 

A. Yes, sir ; there is usually a good deal of holding on, and shifting 
hose ; sometimes all the engines would hold on for five minutes. 

Q. It depends a good deal upon the size of the street main from 
which it is drawn ? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. You sa}^ in State street j^ou had four engines on one reservoir? 

A. Five ; I put five engines to work. 

Q. How long? 

A. All day ; I was in the Post Office all day. 

Q. Is that reservoir any larger than the one in Summer street ? 

A. I think it is larger. 

Q. You must have drawn it down if it had not been for the supply: 

A. I shifted the streams often ; and there were times when we were 
not playing. I was oil the dome, part of the time. I had just crawled 
over the dome before it fell, and came very near going down with it. 

Q. What dome was that? 

A. The back part of the Merchants' Exchange. 

Q. Engine No. 2 went round there with you ? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. What time did you go home? 

A. Sometime Monday forenoon. All the big fire was not anything tc 
the Monday morning fire. I never went through anything like that, and 
don't want to again. 

Q. At the head of Summer street, you mean? 

A. Yes, sir. One of the buildings that had a granite front (th€ 



173 



seven or eight country companies there, and they were not used to such 
things as that. I ran back into the centre of tlie street ; at the corner 
of Washington and Summer streets the sewer cover went up and broke in 
two, but didn't happen to strike me ; if it had, I guess I should have 
been gone now. I began to get a little grain shak}-, and wished I was 
at home. We had the same trouble there in putting the countr}^ engines 
at work. For one hour I worked with Capt. Clark, and never worked so 
hard in my life. It was nothing but fight. 

Q. Hadn't those companies been at work previously? 

A. Some of them had. The N-ew Haven company came in at about 
one o'clock and reported to me, with forty or fift^^ men, to go to work, and I 
put them to work. They happened to fit b}' taking a big wrench and 
making the connection. How the}' ever got it oflT, I don't know. 

Q. The explosion made a cleaner sweep than you were used to? 

A. A little cleaner than I ever saw ; it left it a perfect shell. 

Q. You have seen gas explosions? 

A. Some. 

Q. What dif.i you do ? 

A. I Trent down to the Gas Company's office and ordered the gas shut 
off. Captain Green and I were of the same mind, and I went and 
ordered it shut off. 

A. I do, considering the material we had to work with. If the}^ had 
fitted the hydrants the same as we do, we should never have lost the 
corner building ; but the delay in getting couplings prevented our 
stopping the fire. I had to go to the hose-carriages and find out if 
they had spare reducers ; and it all took time. 

Q. You consider that fight there a splendid achievement? 

Q. Did you see the fire when it crossed Summei', on the corner of 
Otis, right opposite the building where it first took ? 

A. I was on top of the other building and could see it there. 

Q. Was everything done to sta^^ the progress of the fire there ? 

A. Everything w£ps done that could be done. There were lines of 
hose on both sides of the building, and some in it ; and the hose was lost. 
A splendid fight was made there. 

Q. Did you consider that that might be the ke}'^ to the fire ? 

A. That is what we considered. We thought we could stop it there. 

Q. You think everything was done that could have been done ? 

A. I think everything was done that mortal man could do. 

Q. What was your conclusion about that Monda3'-morning fire? 
Where was the mistake? Where was the omission there? 

A. There was no mistake made. 

Q. There was a mistake somewhere in letting the gas get in ? 

A. 1 don't know about that. I could not tell. I presume it slipped 
the mind of everj-body. I did not think of it at the time. 

Q. The only remed}' would be to shut it off" from Boston ? 

A. From the whole cit3\ I ordered it shut off from the whole cit3^ I 
smallest stones weighing three tons) was blown out clean. We had 
gave the order immediately after the third explosion, when the cesspool 
cover went up ; I thought it was about time. 

Q. Did 3'ou go to West street? 



174 



A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Where did the}^ have to go to do it? 

A. I don't know, sir. 

Q. Where were you when the alarm for Monday-morning's fire was 
given ? 

A. I was up this way somewhere. I think I was just coming out of 
the Post Office, or up Court street. I was going round that way. I 
think I had just seen the Chief and told him I would go home and get 
on a dry pair of boots — I was wet through. He said, " We will look 
around and see how things are going on, and if everything is right, you 
had better slip up and get some clothes " (I live in Revere street) ; but I 
didn't have an opportunity. 

Q. How long were you in the Post Office ? 

A. All day, and part of the night. 

Q. On Sunday? 

A. Yes, sir. Captain Shaw was with me part of the time, — a good 
part of the time. 

Q. Was General Burt there ? 

A. I don't know him. I saw no official there except one who was not 
going to let me in. I threw him about twenty feet. 

Q. He declined to let 3'ou in ? 

A. I had considerable trouble in getting in. I didn't want to strike 
anybody, or shoot anybody, but I took him by the collar, finding I 
could harness him pretty well, and I got in and stayed there. 

Q. You don't recollect that any of the gentlemen attached to the Post 
Office were there ? 

A. I know one gentleman, by the name of Appleton, who was there all 
day, and acted in a very gentlemanly manner ; he showed me where I 
could get in through several places. He had the iron doors opened. 
They were not going to open the iron doors, but he got them open for us. 

Q. He was the only one that belonged to the Post Office that you 
recognized ? 

A. Yes, sir ; he worked very well all day long. By the way, in the 
forenoon, I had the Watertown Arsenal compan}'^ there ; they worked 
splendidly under the hands of a Lieutenant of the United States Army ; 
they were all fresh and they did an immense deal of good. 

Q. Did you have anything to do with any of the out-of-town companies 
except Cambridge ? 

A. On Monday morning, some seven or eight of them I got to work, 
and showed them where to find the hydrants. 

Q. How Avas it with these as to behavior? 

A. They behaved very well after we got tliem to work. They were a 
little afraid of the gas, and I had to tell them it was shut off from the 
city. 

Q. Do you remember what companies they were ? 

A. No, sir ; it was very dark, and I don't remember what companies 
they were. 

Q. Did you see the men about Hovey's building at any time? 

A. I saw some gentlemen up there. 

Q. How do you suppose the gas got into that building to make that 
explosion ? 



175 

A. I don't know. We have had several gas explosions that acted 
very queerly. I can tell of one that acted very queer ly. 

Q, That at the North End? The one that blew up in Blackstone 
street ? 

A. Yes, sir. That was the most singular thing I ever saw. 

Q. What was the distance between the fire and the place of the explo- 
sion? As I understand it, you were lighting at one end, and it blew up 
at the other ; what was the distance between the two ends ? 

.^-1. It was across the street, certainly, fifty feet. At that distance, it 
lifted up a sidewalk stone that wei-ghed three tons. I measured it. 



JOSEPH DUNBAR, sworn. 



Q. (By Mr. Russell.) You stand next to Captain Damrell ? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. You take his place when he is absent ? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Where were you when the alarm was given ? 

A. In East Boston. 

Q. At what time did j'ou reach the fire ? 

A. I have no mode of fixing it exactly. I should judge about twenty 
or twenty-five minutes after the first alarm was given. 

Q. What was the condition when you got there ? 

A. I found it was on Summer street, and had crossed over. It was on 
both sides of the street when I got there. 

Q. Did the engines that came there, come fast or slow? 

A. The engine I came with came very quickly. 

Q. With horses? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. What engine was that? 

A. Number 9. 

Q. Where does that come from ? 

A. It is located in Paris street. East Boston. 

Q. How much longer did it take than if it had had horses ? 

A. The way we started that evening, I think we were quicker than 
though we had horses. I should wish to explain that, however. If we 
had horses, we should not have started until the third alarm for that box, 
but I started on the second alarm — at twenty-nine minutes past seven. 
The third alarm would probabl}' have come five minutes later ; so I 
started five minutes sooner than if I had had horses. 

Q. How long do you calculate it took you to reach the spot? 

A. I should judge less than twenty minutes. 

Q. Had the engine arrived when you got there ? 

A. I went with them. On the first alarm, I went to the engine-house, 
and we started on the second ; and I should judge that from the time I 
started until I got there would be twenty minutes. 



176 



■Q. Did your hose go on ahead of you ? 

A. No, sir, it was attached to the engine. 

Q. You found the ferry-boat all ready to start? 

A. They had the ferry-boat ready for us. We had no delay at all in 
getting over. We might have been sooner, but I have no particular 
means of knowing. We went as fast as we could run the whole distance. 

Q. Did you notice any of the other engines as to whether they came 
fast or slow? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. What force had you on the engine ? How manj^ people ? 

A. I should judge there were fifty to seventy-five. 

Q. Did the same ones run through with you? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. You got volunteers when the horses were given up ? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. How many did you enroll ? 

A. About double the number of the compan3\ 

Q. How many would that be? 

A. That would be twenty-two. 

Q. Twenty-two more, or eleven more? 

A. Eleven more. 

Q. Where did the seventy-five come from? 

A. It was generally understood there, — the state we were in ; they 
seemed to be on the alert, everybody ready to give assistance. 

Q. Did you see then that the fire was a threatening one? 

A. I was in Mr. Seaver's store (having some business with him) 
when the alarm was given ; I crossed over to the square and saw the 
light of the fire. The square is very wide there. 

Q. What did you do when you got there ? Where did you work ? 

A. I immediately went to work. 

Q. Where? 

A. On Summer street, and on Bedford street, and Winthrop square. 

Q. Did you see any hose carried to the roofs of buildings ? 

A. I carried a number of lines of hose inside of buildings. 

Q. Any of them up on to the roofs of houses? 

A. I don't recollect, sir. I think not at that time. 

Q. Did j'ou use them from the windows across the street to other 
buildings? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Did you have auy trouble from the want of water that night? 

A. I think it was not quite as good on Summer street. 

Q. Did you liave any trouble from want of fuel ? 

A. There might have been. I think there might have been at some 
parts of the fire, where there were boxes used. 

Q. Did you see any lack of steam for want of fuel? 

A. No, sir ; I did. not notice. There were boxes broken up. It is 
mighty apt to be the case in a fire of that kind, that you can't get round 
on the territory with your coal wagons. 

Q. Did you ever know that to happen before at a fire in Boston since 
you have had steamers? 



177 

A. I don't know as I have. I have heard a great call sometimes for 
the fuel wagon. That oftentimes might be the case. 

Q. You would not say there was much trouble from fuel as long as 
3'ou had boxes to burn ? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. There was no lack of steam ? 

A. No, sir ; not to my knowledge. Sometimes the fuel wagon can't 
get around in season, although they do all they possibly can. 

Q. Was there any trouble about hose that night? 

A. No, sir ; the department was well equipped with hose. I never 
saw it in better order than at that fire. 

Q. How did the men behave ? 

A. Well ; I never saw any drunkenness or anything of the kind during 
the fire. They were all prompt. 

Q. Where did you first see the Chief that night ? 

A. I saw him on Winthrop square. 

Q. How was he ; cool, or otherwise? 

A. He was very cool. 

Q. Did you have any consultation with him that night, or at any 
time ? 

A, I did, on Otis street, I think. 

Q. Can you tell about what time? 

A. I can't recollect about the time. It must have been the first part of 
the evening. It might have been ten or eleven o'clock. I have not 
much recollection about the time. 

Q. What was the amount of your consultation? 

A. I think the fire was going through Otis street — if I recollect about 
the street — and I spoke to him about making a gap. What I meant 
was about blowing up the buildings. 

Q. What did he say ? 

A. He said he had considered it, and thought of it, but didn't know 
where to strike — where to make a gap — to blow up ; I suppose that is 
what he meant. 

Q. Was not this the amount of what he said : " That he had con- 
sidered it, but did not know where it could be done to advantage" ? 

A. I think about that ; something of that kind. 

Q. What did you say to that? 

A. I told him I thought we could get our forces and make a battery. 
What I meant was to bring our engines together and make a battery 
down that street so as to keep the fire from crossing Pearl street ; and 
I immediately went to work to do so ; but everything failed and drove 
me along. 

Q. Where did you go next? 

A. M}' attention was then called to the fire crossing down Federal 
street, and that way ; and I had orders then from the Chief that he wanted 
to see me. 

Q. Did you see him? 

A. I saw him after considerable time. I found him on Federal street, 
I think it was. 

Q. Any one with him? 

A. No, sir ; he was alone. 
12 



178 

Q. What consultation did 3'ou have there? 

A. I spoke Avith him, and he said he was waiting for other members 
of the Board to come up to have a consultation about blowing up the 
buildings. 

Q. Can you tell about what time that was ? 

A. No, sir, I could not. 

Q. Did the other members come? 

A. No, sir. I waited there some time, I could not tell how long ; and 
I told him I thought my presence was needed on Washington street ; and 
I went up to Washington street. 

Q. What did 3'ou do there ? 

A. I went onto Franklin street, and found the firemen somewhere 
near the " Pilot " building. The fire was working its way on both sides of 
the street. I gave them my encouragement, and told them our greatest 
fight would be the Marlboro' Hotel. If it crossed there, it would take 
City Hall, and we must take our stand there and fight it ; and we did so. 

Q. At that time how many streams did you have ? 

A. I could not exactl}'^ say, but there might have been six. I could 
not say how many. We kept adding to them after a while. 

Q. How long were j^ou there ? 

A. I was there until I found everything was safe. 

Q. When was that? 

A. It must have been along towards daylight. After I found the Old 
South was safe, I left it and went into the " Boston Post" building and 
carried a stream of water in there. 

Q. After the fire was stopped there, where did you go then? 

A. I went on to Devonshire street. 

Q. Was that the last place ? 

A. I think that was the last building I was in ; that began to be along 
towards noon, I think, on Sunday. 

Q. Did you have any experience with gunpowder, that night? 

A. •! was on Kilby street when one building was blown up — when 
they tried to blow it up, but it didn't amount to anything. I heard 
reports very often. 

Q. Were you at the Monday-night fire ? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. Were you at the State-street block fire and the Cornhill fire ? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. What was the reason that those fires were controlled so much more 
easily than this ? 

A. The State-street block was a great deal better built than those on 
Summer street ; or I consider it so. 

Q. In what respect — party-walls ? 

A. Yes, sir. We had both sides of the building to work on, and we 
carried our lines of hose up, and throu'gh the scuttle, and could work on 
the building safer, and easier for the men. 

Q. Hovv was it at the Cornhill fire ; how did that compare with this one. 

A. At the Cornhill fire, we had both sides to work on. 

Q. And had more water ? 

A. I think there was. I think there was a better supply. 

Q. Did you see any engine that night out of employment? 



179 



A. Well, sir, I saw none of our engines out of employment ; the 
engines that came from out of town would not connect, and that made 
some delay. 

Q. None of the Boston engines? 

A. Not to my knowledge ; everything worked perfectly. 

Q. When you first got on to the fire ground you say the fire was on 
both sides of the street. Did you notice the building at the corner of 
Otis and Summer streets, what the state of things there was? 

A. I think the fire did not reach there for some time afterwards, if I 
recollect aright. " 

Q. Did you hear anj'thing said about it, or think about it, whether or 
not that was the key to the fire ; and that if you could stop it there, you 
could control the further spread of it ? 

A. When I first noticed the building particularly, I think the fire then 
was working down Winthrop street. 

Q. Had it got past the corner? 

A. Yes, sir. I recollect of telling Engineer 6 that they must look 
out well for the engine ; that that building would soon go. I think I 
made that remark to him. 

Q. Did it occur to you that a stand could be made in Franklin street, 
where the street is so wide, to prevent its crossing ? 

A. The fire then was. working both ways ; working up towards Wash- 
ington street and towards South Boston. 

Q. How did it get across the wide part of Franklin street, down in 
the square? 

^1. There were so many buildings there on fire I do declare I could 
not tell you how it worked. 

Q. You don't know that it crossed the wide part? 

A. I could not sa}^ It worked in the rear, and down among the ells, 
and then along the fronts. I don't know but that I went into fifty 
buildings where we would have hard work to get out, the fire would 
get in so quick. 

Q. Do you think the fire was controlled by the department as well as it 
could have been under the circumstances? 

A. Yes, sir. I don't know of anything but that worked well. 

Q. How did the Chief appear? 

A. Whenever I saw the Chief he was not excited in the least ; he was 
very calm ; more than I should have been, I think, under the circum- 
stances. 

Q. You say you "waited on Federal street with him for some one to 
come, and finally left him to attend to another matter ; while j-ou were 
standing with him did he consult with you about the use of gunpowder? 

A. I told him I had come there at the request of the messenger to see 
him, and he said he wanted to call the Board together and consult about 
this matter of blowing up the buildings. I waited there as long as I 
could. 

Q. While waiting there was there no conversation between you ? 

^4. No, sir ; .he stood in front of those large buildings that were burn- 
ing. He was very calm indeed. 

Q. How long have you been connected with the Fire Department? 

-4. Thirty-two years, in tlie Boston and Charlestown Fire Departments. 



180 



ZENAS E. SMITH, swoni. 

f'' Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Where were you when you heard the alarm 
for the great fire ? 

A. I was at my shop, 65 "Warehara street. 

Q. How long did it take you to reach the fire? 

A. At that l30x, I don't go until the second alarm. 
Q. How long did it take you to reach the fire ? 

A. i was in ni}'^ shop when the first alarm came, and had just got 
through my business. I put on my coat, went to the ladder-house at 
the corner of Harrison avenue and Wareham street, and just as I got 
there, the second alarm came in and we started. 

Q. How long did it take you to get there? 

A. I should think perhaps ten minutes from that time I was at the 
fire. 

Q. What was the condition of the fire then ? 

A. The fire was coming out of all the windows on the Kingston-street 
side, I think, from the first stor}^ to the roof. 

Q. Did you notice whether there were any engines there? 

A. I could not say. There were none in Kingston street. 

Q. If you saw the engines coming in, did they come fast or slow? 

A. No. 3 came in right behind me, or perhaps a second later. I 
assisted them in connecting with the li3'drant. I had great difficulty in 
keeping the people from the sidewalk enough for them to get their en- 
gine attached. I never had so much trouble, or came so near getting 
into a fight. 

Q. Where did you connect it? 

A. I connected it on the corner of Kingston and Bedford streets. 

Q. Where does No. 3 come from ? 

A. From Washington street, just above Dover. 

Q. At what rate did they come? 

A. I don't know as I could tell you that. I didn't come in contact 
with them until I got there. I came from just above them. I was at 
the ladder-house just above them ; and they came in just behind us. 

Q. Did 3^ou come down on the trot yourself? 

A. Yes, sir ; a good smart trot. 

Q. That engine got there veiy soon after you did? 

A. Yes, sir. I was a little above them. I went down the street with 
them. There were about one hundred men on the truck. 

Q. How did they travel? 

A. It went very fast ; full as fast as I could run. 

Q. How much time do you suppose they lost from not taking horses 
on the ladder truck? 

A. I don't know. 1 don't think there was more than four minutes' 
difference. 

Q. What did you do after you got that engine at work? 

A. I remained right there in the street with that stream on to the fire 
for a while, and then we found tlie building opposite was catching fire 
and we took a line into that building. 

Q. On the other side of Summer street? 

A. No, sir ; on Kingston street. I did not go into Summer street 



181 

until an hour and a half or two hours after, and when I went I went on 
at the head of Chauncey street. The fire was so hot soon after we got 
No. 3 into this building opposite, that it burned the hose, and it burst, 
and the men had to get out at the back of the building ; they could not 
get out of the front, it was so hot. 

Q. You lost your hose ? 

A. Yes, sir, a portion of it. I then went from there to Chauncey 
street to see what chance I could get in the rear, and I found there was 
a pretty good chance and came directly back and got some ladders, and 
went round right in the rear^pf this building, and put some ladders on 
the back of a Summer-street store, and took streams in from Chauncey 
street, and put out the fire in this building ; then I took a stream right 
on top of a Summer-street store to cover the corner. There were two 
low buildings on the corner of Summer and Kingston, and I thought I 
could cover those and prevent its coming any farther this way ; and after 
we had worked there awhile we found the fire was opposite us, on Sum- 
mer street, and it was setting the store on fire that we were on top of, 
and we had to let our hose down ; then we thought we would make a fight 
on the third floor and keep it out ; but it had got such a hold it drove us 
out and we had to jump out of the windows on to the baclv shed. They 
had thrown out a good many goods ; some lit very easily. Then I 
changed this stream into the new building that ran from Chauncey street, 
and also went into Chauncey street and took a stream into the building 
opposite. Captain Green and myself went into the corner and took a 
line into the corner-store on Chauncey street, hoping we could keep it 
from getting a-fire. We went on to the roof with it, and I commenced 
in the attic and moved some cases of cloth back from the windows, think- 
ing if I could keep them back a little waj^s we might possibly save them. 
I did that, and went on the next floor and did the same thing. In the 
mean time, the stream went down, and Captain Green says, " Who 
ordered the stream down?" I said, "I don't know." He said, "The 
men say an Engineer ordered the stream down." I said I did not know 
who it was. The fire got such a hold there we were obliged to go out. 
We put streams opposite, on what used to be the Post Office building 
[Mr. Capen's P. O.], and fought it the best we could. I could not tell 
what time it was ; and then the Chief sent for me. A messenger came 
and wanted I should meet him in Federal street. I didn't take any 
notice of it. I don't remember who this person was — whether he was a 
fireman or a citizen. I felt my position was very important. It was 
something 1 had a great deal of interest in, and I was in hopes I could 
secure that point and prevent its going any further on Summer street, on 
that side, so I didn't heed the order immediately, and in about twenty 
minutes to half an hour one of the Engineers came and said, " The 
Chief said, ' Come immediately ! and wait for nothing.' " I then 
started and went to the point ordered and met the Chief. 

Q. What consultation did you have? 

A. There were two or three others there and the Ma3'or. He called 
us into a store there, and said he had called us together to consider the 
matter of using powder. He said, " Captain Smith, what do you say? " 
Said I, " Mr. Chief, I think we must use it, or we shall be censured very 
much, I think ; " and that seemed to be the opinion of all ; and it was 



182 

decided to use it, or allow its use. I said to him, as we came out, " I 
left a point that I hated to leave and I would like to return there. Shall I 
go?" He said, "I want 3'ou to remain here and assist here," and 
I remained there and assisted what I could ; and in a ver}' few minutes 
he came along and said, "• I want you to go down on the wharf, and get 
a tug-boat and go on to the flat to the powder boat and get powder ; " 
and I went as fast as I could to the end of the wharf, and there was a 
tug-boat passed just before I got to the end of the wharf; Captain Heb- 
ard was with me. We made out to make him hear us, and the tug-boat 
immediately stopped and came u]) alongside. "We got on board and 
went down to the powder boat with the intention of raising the anchor, 
or unshipping it so we could take it right up, but we could do neither; 
but we took the hatches off, and got a quantity on board of the boat, 
and got it up, and some of the police came to the boat while we were 
there, and we worked in concert and got it up to tlie fire. 

Q. How much did you brilig up ? 

A. I think, twenty-five or thirty kegs. 

Q. Twenty-five pound kegs? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. To what point did you carry it? 

A. We brought it into Liberty square, I think, so far as my memory 
serves me. The police were with us. We put it into a wagon when we 
got to the wharf, and brought it up by hand. 

Q. The wagon was drawn by men ? 

A. Yes, sir ; the policemen and us. We drew it up. 

Q. Did you have anything to cover it with ? 

^•1. We had not in the wagon, but we had on the boat. 

Q. Were not the sparks flying about you? 

A. I don't know. We didn't seem to fear it. 

Q. Were the kegs tight? 

^4. I don't know whether they were or not ; but I know two that were 
tight, on Kilby street, or that I guess were tight, because I saw them 
taken out whole from where they liad been exploding, pretty well scorched 
about the chimes and hoops. After that, Mr. Carpenter, with some men 
Avho were said to be scientific men, said to the Chief, "■ This powder 
don't amount to anything. The place to get powder is at the Navy 
Y'ard." The Chief turned tome and said, "Captain Smith, take the first 
team you can get, go to the Navy Y'^ard and get powder." I did so. It 
was a ver}' long road. 1 hope 1 will never be sent on an errand there 
again in anything that is urgent. I got to the gate and rapped ; a 
soldier on guard opened the gate and wanted to know what I wanted. I 
told him, and he told me to wait. After a while he went and called his 
oflicer. (I suppose he was a-bed and asleep, and he waited for him to 
dress.) Then L had to go with him up to the quarters in the centre of 
the yard, or wlierever it was. The ollicer said he had no authorit}^, but 
that we must go to the Commodore ; tlie Commodore's house is right 
alongside of tlie gate. I had to go back to the gate with him and wait 
for liiin to report to his ollicer ; and then we had to go to 'the Commo- 
dore's quarters. We went up there, to the Commodore's quarters, and 
found a watchman, and he took us into the house, and up stairs to the 
Commodore's room ; woke him up and he came to the door. I told him 



183 

my errand. He said, " I sent eight barrels at two o'clock." Said I, 
" The}'^ want more." "Well," he said, "take this man down to Capt. 
' Somebody,' down to the lower end of the 3'ard." And I had to go back 
to the g9,te to take my team in. They opened the gate, and I took the 
team in, and- I supposed I was going to get the powder. We went to 
Capt. ' Somebody ' and woke him up, and he came down and wrote me 
an order, and told me I would have to go over to Chelsea, to the maga- 
zine. I supposed, of course, I had got to go, and I did. I went over 
to Chelsea and banged away at the gate and woke another man up ; he 
let us through the gate. We got through there in the course of twenty 
minutes, and then we went roCind to the magazine, and supposed he was 
going to open it; but he said, "I shall have to wait until the gunner 
comes." He said, " You saw him?" I said, " I saw a man that let us 
in at the gate, and that is all I have seen." " The devil ! " said he ; and 
he grabbed my paper (he was the onl}' one that showed any disposition 
to move any faster than as though next week would do), and ran back 
for the gunner, and woke him up. He dressed and came out, and came 
along towards us, and the two men had got almost up to us, and I saw 
one of them start and run back again as fast as he could, and the other 
one came up and said the gunner got up, and dressed, and came out, 
and forgot to bring the kej'S of the house ; however, he got there after 
a while, and we took eight barrels oii to our wagon ; and the Insurance 
Brigade wagon came there, in the mean time, and got six ; and we came 
back. 

Q. How large were those barrels ? 

A. One hundred pounds, I think. 

Q. You took this wagon from Boston to start with? 

A. Yes, sir. It proved to be a Chelsea man, or team. 

Q. Had the insurance wagon followed 3'ou from Boston? 

A. They didn't start for some time after we did, but , they got along 
quicker after the}^ got there ; they found the road all broke. 

Q. Have you an}' means of knowing how long it took you from the 
time 3'ou started until you got back ? 

A. I have no idea of the time. It went like lightning ; still it seemed 
to me an age, waiting for them to move. From the time I went to that 
fire until eight o'clock Sunday morning, I saw no time, and I have no 
idea of it. There was a good deal of it that seems as though I did not 
know where I was ; yet, from the time the Chief sent me, 1 was all the 
time until daylight after powder. 

Q. You didn't get back with the load until daylight? 

A. It was daylight and past, I think, when we got back. We came 
in then at the State-street end of Kilby street, I think it was, and stopped. 
I told the teamster to stop where he was. I didn't know where they 
wanted it. The}- had powder in the corner of Lindall and Kilby streets, 
and were telling them to stand back, and were waiting for an explosion ; 
and directly they said they had better send the powder to the Custom 
House ; and I think I told this man to take it down there. In the mean 
time this explosion occurred, but it did not throw the building down, 
onl}^ partially wreclced it ; the front was tipped partly out, but did 
not fall ; and in about five minutes, I should judge, the whole interior of 
the building was all a light flame. So it appeared to me that was pretty 



184 

poor help. They went directly into the next building (it was an old 
brick building) and they put in, I would not say how many kegs, and 
fired that, and the hosemen didn't think, and Captain Green, who was 
present at the time, didn't think the powder had all exploded. The men 
said it had, and rather slurred us a little for being afraid to go in. Capt. 
Green said, " If you are sure it has exploded, you are not afraid to go 
in anyway." And finally two of them went in at the door. I don't know 
how far they went in ; whether they went to where they put the powder 
or not, I don't know. They came out and said it was all right ; and 
then the hosemen went in readily to put out the fire that had kindled, 
and as they came out they brought out two kegs of powder that had not 
exploded ; and the chimes and hoops were considerably scorched ; and 
the hairs on the firemen's heads were more like bristles than hair. I be- 
lieve then these gentlemen, who were called scientific gentlemen, went 
away. 

Q. Who were those people ? 

A. I knew Mr. Carpenter. The others I didn't know. 

Q. Did Mr. Carpenter go into the building? 

A. I think not. I think he stayed at the door ; and those who were 
said to be scientific men, and who were to see to ari'anging it, and putting 
in the fuse, did the business so far as it was done. A short time after, 
twenty minutes or half an hour, some of the hosemen or firemen of one 
of the companies said to me, "Captain, the}' are going to blow up an- 
other building up above." Said I, "Where?" He said, "Up there, 
where the crowd is." That was a little this side of State street. I started 
and ran right up there. I saw Mr. Carpenter standing at the door. The 
door was open and the powder was in, and the man was about letting 
ofl" his fuse. I said to Mr. Carpenter, " For God's sake, don't blow up 
any more buildings in this street ! If j'ou blow this building up, the 
fire will go to State street, just as true as you live. If you will go away, 
and let us alone, I will stop it where I am. I think it is pretty mean 
fer you to come down here, and say nothing to us, and blow up buildings 
where you please." And I further said, " If that is the game, I think 
we had better go home." I didn't know I had any backers there until I 
got through saying that ; but these men that brought the powder out 
just below were fully as much interested as I was ; and the foreman of 
one of the companies speaks up to me and says, " Captain, if you say 
the word, the powder comes out." I said, " Hold on ! I think I can get 
it out without any force or violence. I know Mr. Carpenter ; and if he 
says he will take it out, I will trust him. He is a man of his word." 
And he said, " Captain, I will take it out ! " And he did ; and we went 
to work, then, with a relish, and stopped it below. 

Q. Did you save that building? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. What building was that? 

A. The one they were going to blow up? 

Q. Yes, sir. 

A. I don't know what door they went into. If you recollect, from the 
corner of State down to that freestone building, tliere is a building that 
has been built a good many years. It is a granite building ; not very 
ornamental, on Kilby street, cornering on State street, and running 



185 

down until it comes to this freestone building on the upper side. I was 
up on the tall building ; I had three streams working on the Post Office. 
Tliey were going to blow up the granite building that runs down to the 
freestone building. 

Q. Do you know General Benham by sight? 

A. No, sir ; I don't. I suppose I saw him that night, but I don't 
think I should know him if I should see him now. 

Q. Did you have any other experience with gunpowder? 

A. I saw it used once or twice. 

Q. Besides that ? 

A. I saw one or two explosions. 

Q. Did they amount to anything? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. If you were to go into another fire of this kind would you advise 
the use of powder? 

A. Not unless it was used differentl}'- from what it was used there. 
I will not say but what it may be used ; but I do say all I saw used hurt 
us very much. 

Q. Did it do more harm than good ? 

A. Yes, sir. It will take a good deal of time, in my judgment, and 
a good deal of labor, to do this thing effectually. To begin with, you 
want to have a large number of men ; and you want lots of plank and 
joist ; and then you want to shut the gas off. When you explode a 
building, you knock all the gas fixtures to pieces, and have the gas 
rushing in all on fire. I don't think, and I have heard other men say the 
same thing, after the explosion on the corner of Kilby and Lindall streets, 
that it was over five minutes before the whole material of that building 
was all in a blaze. 

Q. Did that reduce the height of the building much ? Did the roof 
come down? 

A. I guess it broke the roof down. I think we could have covered 
that building. I think it would have been standing this minute un- 
harmed if there had been no powder put in it. 

Q. Did you see any lack of water that night? 

A. I don't think I did, where I w'as. 

Q. Did you see any of the steam engines — our engines — doing noth- 
ing ? — disengaged ? 

A. No, sir ; not any while I was there. I was away a good while, 
and I have felt a good many times since as though I had not done all I 
could, but still I did. Of course I had to go where I was sent. 

Q. Did you see any want of fuel ? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. How did the men behave? 

A. Our own department I could not say a word against. I did not 
see one of our whole department that flinched or was intoxicated either ; 
but I did see some others that were ; and in Congress street, I guess it 
was sometime Sunday forenoon, I took three or four bottles away from 
an out-of-town fireman. I felt as though he was disgracing us as well as 
himself, and I went and spoke to him — he was staggering about with a 
bottle in his hand and others in his pocket — and I spoke to him 
pleasantly. I said, " My friend, throw that away. You are disgracing 



186 

yourself and all _youv friends." He said he would not, and I finally took 
one out of his pocket, another one from another pocket, — took three out 
in all, — and I turned round and smashed them right before his eyes. 

Q. Did you see the fire cross Summer street, to the corner of Otis? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. You don't know anything about what kind of a stand was made 
there ? 

A. I don't know anything that was done on Summer street. I was 
pretty busy trying to see Avhat I could do in Kingston street. I then 
whipped round into Chaunce}^ street, to see if I could head it off there. 

Q. HovA-^ long have you been a fireman? 

A. I have been engaged in the department twenty-nine years ; be- 
tween fourteen and fifteen years as Assistant Engineer. 

Q. What time did you go home on Sunday? 

A. I didn't go home Sunday. 

Q. Were you out on duty all through Sunday? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Where were you during the Monday-morning fire? 

A. I was on Kilby street when the alarm was given, about twelve 
o'clock Sunday night, and I did not see ni}'^ home from Saturday until 
Monda}^ morning at five o'clock ; and I was really glad to get home 
then. 



GEORGE BROWN, Assistant Engineer, sicorn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) How long have you been connected with the 
Fire Department? 

A. Twenty-five years. 

Q. Where were you when the alarm was given ? 

A. South Boston. 

Q. How soon did you come? 

A. I probably arrived there within twelve or fifteen minutes after the 
first alarm was given. 

Q. What was the condition of the fire when you came ? 

A. The fire then was raging very badl}' in the building that it took in, 
and also in the back part of the building or area. I suppose it went in- 
to the back area. 

Q. What did you do? 

A. I found three or four streams there and I conducted those to the 
best of my ability, as well as I could. 

Q. Where did you go from there? 

A. I went from there around on to Chauncey street. I stayed there a 
few moments, and I went back again ; but we had to haul back from 
where we were playing, back to Church Green. 

Q. With what engines? 

A. There were three companies there then, 7, 1 and 9, I think they 
were. 

Q. Were you there when the fire crossed Summer over towards Otis 
streets? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. What sort of a fight was made there to prevent its crossing? 



187 



A. That was above me. I was below Church Green, and this was 
above. 

Q. After j'ou were driven awaj^ from this spot where did you fight 
next ? 

A. Down in Winthrop square. We took the next stand at Beebe's 
building. 

Q. How many streams were there on that building? 

A. After I shifted down there in the square ? 

Q. Yes, sir. 

A. Really, I don't know as I could tell for a certainty. There must 
have been at that time, or at one time I think, we must have had six 
streams there, certainly. 

Q. On Beebe's building? 

A. Beebe's block and the adjoining building. 

Q. Where did you go next? 

A. Then I was up in the store which I think was occupied by Skinner 
& Co. I will not be sure. It was in the rear of the little building that 
was built in the square. There was a vacant lot there for several years ; 
and they put up a three-cornered building there. I thought that would 
be a good shelter from the intense heat from Beebe's building ; and I 
took two streams ; one up on to the roof of that building, and one to 
the story below. That building sheltered us for some time. The building 
we were in was fired several times, but we succeeded in putting it out ; 
and we stayed there until we were finally driven out ; and then we hauled 
the hose down to Federal street through Franklin. 

Q. Where did you go next? 

A. Across Federal street. I met the Chief at Federal street, and he 
thought we would make a stand there ; but it was impossible to get the 
force to make a stand there at that time — the force then had got 
separated. 

Q. Where did you go next ? 

A. Then the Chief said we must make a stand up Pearl street. Capt. 
Dunbar was there with me, and he went one way and I went another. I 
then went down to the foot of Pearl street, and from that point I could 
not go back, and I made a stand there with the force I found there. 

Q. How did you succeed there? 

xl. We stopped it there with the loss of the Hartford and Erie 'depot. 
It was a very great point to make ; there were a lot of old stables and 
old wooden buildings in the rear which we were afraid would take fire. 

Q. Where did you go after that ? 

A. After we got the fire checked there the Chief came round and re- 
quested me to go to Liberty square and that vicinity. I had to go up to 
Washington street to get down there. 

Q. What did you do there ? 

A. There I went to work as usual. 

Q. Where did you go next ? 

A. I stayed there until along Sunday forenoon, and checked the fire 
on Central street. 

Q. What time did you go home ? 

A. I got home Sunday night about eleven o'clock. 

Q: Was there any deficiency of water that night where you were ? 



188 

A. Not that I noticed ; no more than would naturally occur with so 
many hydrants and reservoirs being used. 

Q. Was there any want of fuel ? 

A. Yes, sir; there was at times a want of fuel, for the reason the 
apparatus were so distributed about that it was almost impossible for 
the fuel wagon to get round. 

Q. Did any of the engines stop for want of fuel ; or did they make 
their fire from something else? 

A. I don't know of any that stopped. They used old boxes or what- 
ever they could find that would burn. 

Q. How did the men behave? 

A. Well. 

Q. Did you have any trouble with them ? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. Was there any cowardice? 

A. No, sir. I never saw the men behave better ; they could not 
behave better. 

Q. Were any of them intoxicated ? 

A. I saw none of the Boston Department intoxicated. 

Q. Did you see the Chief, and how man}' times? Did j^ou see him that 
night ? 

A. I saw him, probably, a dozen times. 

Q. Was he self-possessed ? 

A. Yes, sir, he appeared to be very much so, indeed. 

Q. Did you have any consultation with him about gunpowder ? 

A. I did not. 

Q. You did not have any experience with it? 

A. I never had had any experience. 

Q. Did you that night? 

A. After I got round on that side of the fire, I saw one or two build- 
ings that they were attempting to blow up. 

Q. Did it do any good ? 

A. Not in my opinion. 

Q. Did you see any building that actually fell ? 

A. I saw the building at the corner of Water and Congress streets. 

Q. How much of a fall was that ? 

A. That took the whole upper part ; probably three or fotir stories, 

Q. Was not that serviceable in reducing the height so it could be 
reached ? 

A. It may have been, possibly, but it left a large mass of debris there 
ready to catch fire at once. 

Q. So far as you know, was the use of gunpowder that night benefi- 
cial, or otherwise ? 

A. I think it was detrimental. I didn't see any reason, really, to use 
it. 

Q. Did you notice, when the engines came, whether they came fast or 
8low ? 

A. I didn't have an opportunity to see many of them come in ; I was 
busy around the fire. 

Q. How was it with your South Boston engines ? 

^1. Three of my apparatuses came by the aid of horses, and three by 
hand. 



189 

Q. Which made the best time? 

A. The two hose-carriages came by hand, and one steamer. These 
were the nearest ones to the fire, so you could hardly draw a line between 
them. 

Q. Could 3^ou judge whether they lost much time in coming by hand? 

A, Perhaps they did not come over so quickly as they would if the 
horses had been well, but they came a good deal quicker than the horses 
could have brought them at that time. 

Q. You mean, as fast as sick horses could have brought them? 

A. Yes, sir. ^ 

Q. Were thej^ in your stables at South Boston ? 

A. In the stables there. We used three pair of borrowed horses. 

S. H. HEBARD, sworn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) How long have you been connected with the 
Fire Department? 

A. Since the annexation of Dorchester to Boston. 

Q. You were with the Dorchester Department before ? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. When did you start to come in? 

A. I started on the third alarm from my house. 

Q. How long were you coming in ? 

A. I didn't look at my watch ; somewhere from thirty to forty minutes. 

Q. How did 3'ou come ? 

A. With a horse and buggy. 

Q. Do you know about the engine from your neighborhood, when that 
came ? 

A. I don't know at what time she got in there. I had left before. 

Q. What number is that? 

A. Sixteen. 

Q. You left before she came ? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. What was the condition of the fire when you got there? 

A. I came up Kingston street, and came on to it from there ; and I 
met Captain Regan and Captain vSmith. It was well burning, but I 
didn't take particular notice, because Captain Regan said, " You must 
go round on to Chauncey street and make an attempt to stop it there, if 
possible." 

Q. That was where you made your first fight? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. What did you do? 

A. We got three streams up in the rear of a clothing-store there. I 
don't know whose it was. 

Q. On what street? 

A. On Chauncey street. We first went into an unfinished building 
that faced on Kingston street, I think it was, and put the fire out in that 
building. 

Q. You got your three streams where ? 

A. On that clothing-store, and fought it there until we were driven 
back, out into the street ; then we went into another building, where we 



190 

could be protected somewhat from the heat, and worked there until we 
were called out by Captain Smith sending word for us to come out ; that 
there was danger of the walls falling, and it was not safe to stay there 
any longer. 

Q. Where did you go next ? 

A, "VVe went out into the street and put the streams on to the building 
adjoining ; and Avhen we came out 1 had not been on the street more 
than ten minutes before there was a messenger came and said the Chief 
wanted his Assistants in Federal street. 

Q. Did 3'ou have a consultation with him there? 

A. The consultation was had before I arrived. I saw him there. 

Q. Did 3'ou have any talk with him ? 

A. I asked him if he was going to blow. He said, " Yes." That was 
the only conversation I had. 

Q. Did he give j^ou any directions about blowing ; or about using 
gunpowder? 

A. No, sir ; he did not. 

Q. Did 5^ou have any ? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. From whom? 

A. Captain Green. 

Q. State what took place. 

A. He said they must have more powder, and told Captain Smith and 
myself to go down to T wharf, — I think it was, — and take a tug boat 
and go down the harbor, and fetch up the powder boat. 

Q. You went down with him? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. What did you do after you got back ? After you got the powder to 
the fire? 

A. We went into Congress street, I think, and there was a gentleman 
came up with a paper in his hand and said he had a document there from 
the Chief authorizing him to blow buildings. Captain Green looked at 
the paper and said that was all right. He was satisfied. I don't recol- 
lect of seeing any one carry powder in. I was back watching the fire, and 
trying to find an opportunity to make a stand against it. 

Q. Do you know anything further about the use of powder? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. Was there any trouble from want of water that night, where you 
were? 

A. Not in the immediate vicinity where I was. 

Q. Was there any want of fuel? 

A. Not that I know of. 

Q. Was there any trouble about the hose? 

A. Nothing more than usual. 

Q. How did the men behave? 

A. They behaved as well as I ever saw them at any fire. 

Q. How long have 3'ou been a fireman ? 

A. I have belonged to the Fire Department over thirty j^ears in Dor- 
chester and Boston. 



191 



L. "W. SHATV, Ass't Engixeer, sioorn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) How long have 3'ou been connected with the 
Fire Department ? 

A. I joined the Fire Department in 1852. 

Q. Where were you when you heard the alarm? 

A. I was directly opposite m}* house, 49 Winchester street. 

Q. How long did it take you to get to the fire ? 

^4. To the best of my judgment, about seven minutes and a half. 

Q. What was the condition when you got there ; and where was it? 

A. According as it appeared to me, it was in a very far advanced 
state from what we usually find in an3'thing of that description when we 
arrive on the ground. 

Q. Was the building all on fire? 

A. Yes, sir. The building the fire originated in was a mass of flames, 
and it had got into the next store south, and was smoking on the 
opposite side of the street. 

Q. What did you do? 

A. I took a point on the opposite side of the street and endeavored to 
prevent it from crossing. 

Q. Opposite side of Summer, or Kingston street? 

A. Kingston street. 

Q. What success did you have ? 

A. I met with good success at that point. It was a dwelling-house. 
We used water in buckets, and anything we could carry it in, until I 
could get a line of hose in. A line of hose was on the opposite side 
when I got there ; but when we had to abandon that, we took it into the 
dwelling-house, and succeeded in keeping it there. 

Q. Was anything throwing water when you got their excepting the 
hose? 

A. From the point where I went, I could not determine whether the 
engines were throwing water or not. I noticed there were engines 
there, but I was not in a position to see whether they were throwing 
water or not. Their lines were run. 

Q. Where did you go next ? 

A. 1 went down into Bedford street and to Church Green. 

Q. On what building did you work there? 

A. The first building I went into there, was on the east side of a 
place. I don't know what the nam-e of the place is. It was east of 
Devonshire street, — a place that run in from Summer street, north. 
There were some brands of fire that broke a window in the Mansard roof 
on the east side of that place, and I took a line of hose up there and put 
that out. The front room in that store was all on fire, and after putting 
that out, I put a line there on the rear with good hopes of stoppino- it 
from crossing at that point. 

Q. Where did you go when j^ou left there ? You were driven from 
there ? 

A. I was not driven from that point, but I came out with the inten- 
tion of sending in other streams to reinforce that, and I found the fire 
had driven round so furiously on the other side that there was an engine 
in danger of burning up ; and I gave my attention to getting that away ; 



192 

and when I came back, I found the stream had been driven from the 
point where I located it. 

Q. Where did you go next? 

A. We next attempted to make a stand at the corner of High and 
Summer and South and Summer — on those two points. 

Q. Where did you go after that? 

A. After we found we could not make a stand there, Captain Jacobs 
and myself consulted — we were the only members of the Board 
on that side — and we decided to take a stand further back from the fire, 
where we could man a battery, and command it when it came up ; and 
we took a line right across from a point just south or south-east from 
the Hartford & Erie depot, right across to the Bowditch school. AVe 
cut down all the fences, and put lines of hose through, and wet every- 
thing down ; and that is where we stopped the fire from going south. 

Q. Then where did you go ? 

A. I then went down the line to report to the Chief, if I could find 
him, that the fire was stayed on that side. I went through into Chauncey 
street and found some of the Engineers there, but the Chief was not 
there, and I continued down the line until I got to Franklin street. I 
there found matters in such a condition that 1 abandoned mj' object of 
trying to find the Chief, and endeavored to make a stand at the corner 
of Franklin and Hawley streets. 

Q. Which wa}'^ was the fire going? 

A. Up both sides of Franklin towards Washington. 

Q. You don't know how it got across? 

A. I have no means of knowing how it got across. 

Q. How long did j'ou hold that spot? 

A. I had just got well to work there when I received an imperative 
order from the Chief, through his son, to meet him at the corner of Fed- 
eral and Milk streets. I felt constrained to obey the order. 

Q. What was the consultation? 

A. The orders of the Chief were, to hunt up as many of the Engineers 
as I could find along the line, and send them to him at once ; to tell 
them to go immediately, without an}^ hesitation. 

Q. And to go there yourself? 

A. He didn't give me any order to return. 

Q. Did you return ? 

A. I didn't. I found as much as I wanted to do to fight nn' wa}- 
down through the crowd to find the others, and I thought enough had 
gone to him for the consultation he wished ; and I found a point I con- 
sidered was important, on my way back. I stopped where 1 found it. 

Q. Where was that ? 

A. The line of Washington street from Winter to School, or Winter 
to Milk. 

Q. How long did you stay there ? 

A. I was on that point, with one slight interruption — when I went 
from it to put a line into Hovey's store in Avon place — I was there 
from this time until the fire was successfully^ stopped on Washington 
street. I cannot tell how long it was. 

Q. Did you have any experience with gunpowder that night? 

A. My experience with gunpowder was ver^^ slight. There was one 



193 

of the agents that were emploj^ed to use it, that came there and de- 
manded of me to take my men away, and I refused, and commanded 
him not to use it at that poi'.it. 

Q. Did he obey you ? 

A. He did temporarily ; but when I was absent to get this line into 
Hovey's store, he put it into Mudge's store and attempted to explode it, 
and partially succeeded, as I understand. 

Q. Was there any want of water that night? 

A. Yes, sir ; it was a very serious obstacle. One place was at the 
corner of Milk and Washington. 

Q. How many engines were there there ? 

A. There were three. 

Q. Could they not all get water? 

A. They got it until they drew the reservoir dry. 

Q. Was there any supply to the reservoir? 

A. There was a gate into it ; but the engines from other points were 
taking the water so fast it would not run in. 

Q. Was there any other point where there was want of water? 

A. Yes, sir ; we got an inadequate supply on the corner of Kingston 
street, where I first went, after a certain length of time, after the other 
engines got to work. 

Q. Corner of Kingston and what? 

A. Bedford street. 

Q. Was there any other point? 

A, Well, there were other points ; for instance, when I was in Water 
street, on the " Post" building, I was scant of water there, but really I 
can't tell 3^ou where the lines came from. 

Q. Was there any trouble with fuel? 

A. Thei"e was none under my immediate notice. 

Q. Was there any trouble about the hose ? 

A. In what respect ? 

Q. In bursting any more than usual in a great fire? 

A. No, sir ; I didn't notice any. 

Q. Was the hose in good condition? 

A. So far as my knowledge was concerned. 

Q. How did the men behave ? 

A. Splendidly ; I never gave an order to a man that night, — that is, 
to our department, — but he sprang to it as though his life depended 
upon it. 

Q. Were there any intoxicated men in the Boston Fire Department ? 

A. I didn't see one in my observation. 

Q. Did you notice about the engines, whether they came fast or slow? 
Whether they lost time from having men instead of horses? 

A. I didn't see any engine come in, except 3 ; 7 and 4 were there 
when I arrived on the ground. 

Q. At what rate did 3 come? 

A. I could not tell the rate she came, but I should judge from the 
time I was there, she was there very quick — almost as quick as if she 
had had horses, with the exception of the difference between one alarm 
and another, which would be five minutes behind. 

Q. Where did she start from ? 
25 



194 

A. Opposite Williams market, on Washington street. 

Q. Wliat was the great trouble that made ihis fire uncontrollable? 

A. Well, as fur as m}' judgment goes, it had acquired a headway 
beyond what we are accustomed to have ; and the buildings were very 
high. We find in all those buildings of that description that the upper 
part is built with combustible materials, and it went from one to another 
at a rate almost as fast as a man could go. 

Q. Where did the buildings usuall}^ catch? 

A. In the roofs. 

Q. The wooden trimmings and wooden covings? 

A. Yes, sir. Oftentimes it lodged on those Mansard roofs, round the 
windows, and caught in there. It did in this store on Summer street, 
that I spoke of — the first one that I went into after Iwent to Church 
Green. 

Q. Was there anj-thing that was done that was improper, or anything 
left undone, that night ; or anything you could do better if it should 
happen again? 

A. I have criticised my conduct as no other man could criticise it, 
and I don't know, so far as my duty was concerned, of one thing I could 
do ditferently if I should do it over again ; which I consider very re- 
markable, as there is hardlj'^ a day passes but I see something that I 
can mend in my own business. 

Q. In the general management of the fire, so far as you noticed, was 
there anything you could criticise ? 

A. I don't know of anything that could be done better, in regard to 
the general management, unless we could have prevented any powder 
from being used, I think we should have saved hundreds of thousands 
of dollars, if there had been no powder used at all. I don't know as 
there was any way to have prevented it. 

Q. In what way do 3'ou think the poAvder did harm? 

A. It did the harm of forcing our forces back every time, for fifteen 
or twenty minutes. AA^e had to withdraw from every point where it was 
used. There is a sample of it in Washington street. If it had been 
used there, in spite of all we could have done, it would have crossed 
Washington street, if our forces had had to be withdrawn. 

Q. You think the street was saved b}' keeping the powder away? 

A. Exactly ; I am just as confident of it as that I am sitting here. 

Q. If there had been an abundant supply of water, and you had had 
the Lowr}^ hydrants, in your judgment, what difference would it have 
made in the management of this fire? 

A. If we had had the Lowry hydrants all over the city, or where it 
first started, I should have hardly said it would have gone beyond 
Summer street, and, perhaps, not on this side of Summer street at all. 

Q. You are confident of that? 

A. That is my feeling ; and if it had got be^'ond that, if we had hail 
a good sui)ply of water, I should say it would never have passed Frank- 
lin street, certain. 

Q. Was there not perhaps a defect in the size of the street mains, lie- 
sides the want of the Lowry hydrants? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. The Lowry hydrants would not have brought the water? 



195 

A. No, sir ; it ■would have been simple folly to put the Lowry hy- 
drants on the pipes now in \Franklin and Devonshire streets, because 
they are onl}^ four and six-inch pipes. That was just precisely what 
we needed, — larger pipes. 

PHINEAS B. ALLEN, Civil Engineer, sivorn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) How long have you been connected with the 
Fire Department? 

A. Ever since Roxbury was annexed, 1868, I think. 

Q. And before that? 

A. Before that I belonged in Roxbury ever since 1850, and I belonged 
in Dorchester in 1848. 

Q. What time did you start for the fire ? 

A. I started on the second alarm. I was in Hook and Ladder 4's 
house when the alarm was given. I was going home, and I stopped in 
there to see how things were ; that is on Eustis street. 

Q. How long were you in coming in? 

A. I could not say exactly. I got into a car and came down as far as 
Worcester street, and Hose 7 came out of Worcester street ; I 
think it was Worcester street ; I will not be sure ; but I got out of 
the car and run down with them. 

Q. How much slower were they than if they had had horses ? 

A. I don't think any slower. They had a large team. 

Q. When 3' ou reached the fire, what was the condition of things ? 

A. The first building, that is, the building the fire took in, was 
nearly consumed. 

Q. What else was burning? 

A. The building next to it on Kingston street was the one I went into 
first. I went in there with No. 13's line and stayed there until they 
said the building was not safe to stay in any longer, and we took the 
line out. 

Q. Where did you go next? 

A. I stopped there a few minutes ; then I walked down to the end of 
Bedford street into Summer street. I stopped there until the engines 
were taken awaj'' from that reservoir. 

Q. Why were they taken away ? 

A. The fire got down so close we considered them in danger, and they 
were ordered to move them as soon as they could. 

Q. Where did you go then ? 

A. I Aveut into Lincoln street. Then No. 17 went down to the 
corner of Lincoln and Essex streets to the hydrant there, and I went 
down that way with them. I then went back for the hose there was in 
the square, and got that back from the fire, and went to work there 
at that hydrant. 

Q. Where did you go next? 

A. After we got the fire stopped there, and supposed it was perfectly 
safe to leave, we came down to School street ; and the orders came there 
to go down towards the Custom House as quick as possible ; and we 
we went from there to Batterymarch street, and the engine went to work 
at the reservoir there ; and the line was taken round into Milk street. 



196 

Q. What did you do next? 

A. We stayed there until the fii-e was about stopped ; when we were up 
there, No. 17 went home; and the Providence engiue, — she had 
arrive(i here then or before ; I had not seen her before, — she came in 
at Liberty square and went to work on that reservoir. The fire was 
about stopped theu ; some were confident it would not go further. 

Q. Did you see the Chief that night ? 

A. I did. 

Q. Where? 

A. The last time I saw him was in Summer street. 

Q. What time, about? 

A. As near as I can judge, it was somewhere about twenty minutes or 
a quarter before eleven. 

Q. Did you have any consultation with him? 

A. A gentleman came to me and spoke about bringing engines from 
Worcester. He wanted to know if I would give him an order to send 
for the engines. The telegraph was broken down and they could not tel- 
egraph, and the gentlemen who had charge of the engines would not 
start unless they had a written order. I said, " I cannot give an order in 
writing. I have no pen, ink, or paper, and I am wet clear through, but," 
I said, " the Chief has just gone by, and if you will wait one moment, I 
think I can find him." I found him, and told him what the gentleman 
said, and he said, ••' Go to the depot with the gentleman and have an order 
sent." I went down and found the gentleman who had charge of the en- 
gines, and he said he would send one right of; and the way I came to know 
about the time, he said, " I will be back at half-past one." I looked at 
the clock and it was just eleven. I said, " You have got to work pretty 
lively to get back at half-past one." He said, " I will do it ; " and a few 
minutes before that time he reported to me ; he had arrived and wanted 
to know where to go. I said, " Go down Washington street, and you 
■will find some one who will tell you where to go to work." 

Q. Where did that engine come from ? 

A. Worcester. " He went from here to Worcester and got his engine. 

Q. The first engine that went out went to West Newton and got an 
engine? 

A. That I don't know anything about. 

Q. They had communicated by telegraph with Worcester? 

A. They could not ; the line was down. They didn't telegraph be- 
cause the line was down. That is the reason I came to notice the time 
so exactly, because the man said, " I will be back at half-past one." I 
said, " You can't, you have only got two hours and a half." And he said, 
" I will do it." He did do it. 

Q. Did you have any consultation with the Chief that night? 

A. No, sir ; I did not see him after that until Sunda^^ sometime. 

Q. Did you have any experience with gunpowder that night? 

A. I did not. 

Q. Was there any trouble about want of water that night? 

A. We were short of water part of the time ; the hydrants did not 
give us enough. 

Q. Where was that? 

A. Corner of Essex and Lincoln. 



197 

Q. Any other place? . 

A. That is the only place we were at until we came to the reservoir. 

Q. When you got to the reservoir, did you have plenty of water? 

A. We had plenty of it, I think, there. 

Q. Was there any trouble from want of fuel that night? 

A. We did not have coal all the time as freely as we do sometimes, 
although no engine stopped, because we procured wood and that like. 

Q. How did the men work? 

A. Every man did all he could, that I saw. I didn't see a man refuse 
to do anything from the time the fire began until it stopped. 

Q. How came the fire to get beyoiid your control? What was the 
trouble that night that made it so great a fire? 

A. I think the great trouble was, the fire was not discovered soon 
enough, and the alarm not given soon enough. I think the building had 
burned so far before it was discovered, it was impossible to stop it. 

Q. What made it spread so fast? 

A. The greatest trouble was in the high buildings, and the wood-work 
on top of them, the wooden covings, and wooden windows, and the like. 

Q. Did the fire usually catch in the roof? 

A. It did on Summer street. The fire came right down the coving, 
and you could see it. 

Q. What, in your judgment, would have'been the difference if 3''0u had 
had an abundance of water, and had had the Lowry hydrants? 

A. I think if we had had the Lowry h3'drants, we could have got some 
engines closer to the fire ; it would not have required so much hose to 
play through. Some of the engines were playing through six or seven 
hundred feet of hose. With the Lowry hydrants, we should have had 
four engines on to one hydrant, and they would not have had to play 
through more than two or three hundred feet. 

Q. Do you think tiie best use was made of the material you had ? 

A. Yes, sir. I think everything was done that could be with what 
we had to work Avith. 

Q. Did the Chief seem to be cool ? 

A. Very cool, when I saw him. As cool as ever I saw him at a fire in 
mj'^ life. 



JAMES MUNROE, Civil E>fGiNEER, sworn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) How long have you been in the Fire Depart- 
ment of Boston ? 

A. Since annexation. 

Q. You were Chief Engineer of the Roxbuiy Department? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. How many years ? 

A. Nine. 

Q. How long have 3'ou been a fireman ? 

A. Thirty-three years. 

Q. What time did you start for the fire? 

A. I started on the first alarm. 

Q. From where? 



19S 

A. From the Highlands. 

Q. How did you come? 

A. I ran part of the way, and part of the way in a car. 

Q,. Wliat time did you arrive, as near as you can tell? 

A. I should think within twenty-five minutes. 

Q. What was the condition of the fire ? 

A. The fire was across Kingston street and into the building south of 
where it originated. I did not go on to Summer street. I came in on 
the south side and went to work on Bedford street. 

Q. You cannot tell what was going on in Summer street? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. What fighting did you do there? 

A. I fought it on the south side of Summer street, on the back side 
from Bedford street. 

Q. Where did you go next? 

A. I had an order from the Chief to report to him in Federal street. 

Q. Did you go? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. What was the consultation ? 

A. In regard to using powder. 

Q. What did the Chief say about it? 

A. He said he proposed to use powder. 

Q. Did he say where? 

A. He did not then ; he did after we had concluded to use it. 

Q. What advice did you give, if any? 

A. I advised him to use it, provided they went back far enough to get 
an opening before the fire would come up to it. 

Q. About what time was this talk ? 

A. I don't have much idea of time. I should think it was pretty near 
twelve o'clock. 

Q. Had he used any at that time, did you understand ? 

A. Not to my knowledge. He said he had sent for the powder. 

Q. Were you there when it came ? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Did you take part in using it? 

A. I did not. 

Q. Did you see it used ? 

A. I did not. 

Q. What did you do after that? 

A. He gave me an order to go into Federal street. He said they 
were going to blow a building up on Federal street, on the left-hand 
side. He said the}^ were going to blow that building, and ordered me 
to go to Congress street and clear the street. I went round there and 
did so, with the assistance of the police. 

Q. Did tlie explosion take place while you were there ? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. Where did you go next? 

A. I went over on to Broad street, near the foot of Oliver sti'eet. 

Q. Did you figlit the fire there until it was stopped ? 

A. I stayed there until it was stopped. 

Q. Where did you go next? 



199 

A. I then came down on to Oliver street, near Milk street, near the 
Boston Lead Company's store there, and the other stores in that block. 

Q. You fought the fire there? 

A. I stayed there until it was taken care of at that point. 

Q. You had a Lynn company to help you? 

A. I had one Roxbury engine, and there was a stream from one Bos- 
ton engine, and two or three out-of-town companies ; I don't know what 
they were. 

Q. What time did you stop the fire there ? 

A. I think it was about noon ; I don't know. 

Q. Did you do any more that day ? 

A. We kept the engine there at work, and about three o'clock we got 
it under, and then came up town to get something to eat. 

Q. How was the Chief when you saw him? 

A. I never saw him any more cool and collected than he was at that 
time. 

Q. How did the men generally behave ? 

A. Well, sir. 

Q. Was there any intoxication on the part of the Boston Fire De- 
partment ? 

A. I didn't see any instance of the kind ; not a man. 

Q. Was there any want of water? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Where was that ? 

A. On Lincoln street and on Oliver street ; on that side of the fire. 
We had to run a line clear up through Broad street. 

Q. Did the engines have to stand still for want of water? 

A. Yes, sir ; we could not get water enough to supply the engines. 

Q. Were there any other points where you noticed that ? 

A. No, sir, not that I remember of. 

Q. Was there any want of fuel ? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Did any of the engines stand still for want of fuel, or did they sup- 
ply themselves? 

A. They took boxes or anything they could get hold of. 

Q. Did you lose any time for want of steam? 

A. Yes, sir, I think there was one time. 

Q. Where was that? 

A. It was over on Broad street. 

Q. Could they not get coal there ? 

A. I could not. I tried a number of wharves ; they said they had no 
cannel coal, or anything that was suitable for us. 

Q. You could not get fuel ? 

A. We could get wood there. 

Q. Was there any trouble from hose that night? 

A. No, sir, I didn't see any lack of hose where I was. 

Q. Was there any difficulty from bursting of hose? 

A. No, sir, very little of it. 

Q. The hose was in good order and kept in good order? 

A. All the hose I had anything to do with. 

Q. What was the principal cause of the fire becoming uncontrollable? 



200 



A. It was a big fire before we got there. 

Q. That is the first cause ; what others? 

A. I don't know as I could answer that. 

Q. Did you notice where the fire generally caught ; whether it was 
the roof? 

A. The building was all on fire from cellar to attic. 

Q. The first one ? 

A. Yes, sir, and the other buildings around it were on fire. 

Q. What would have been the effect if 3'ou had had Lowry h5"drants 
and plenty of water? 

A. I think the fire would have been checked a good while before it 
was. 

Q. Where do 3'ou think, to the best of j'our judgment, you could have 
checked the fire if you had had that? 

A. I think if we had had plenty of water in Liberty square, we could 
have made a stand there and all along on that line. 

Q. Suppose they had had it at the beginning of the fire? 

A. I don't think it would have made any odds. 

Q. You don't think you could have stopped it? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. At the time when the alarm was given, you don't think anything 
could have stopped that fire on the spot where it begun ? 

A. I could not tell what state it was in when the alarm was given, 
before the time I got there. 

Q. You say it had crossed Summer street when you got there? 

A. No, sir, it had crossed Kingston street. 

Q. It may have crossed Summer street and you not have seen it? 

A. Yes, sir, it might have been. I did not go on that side. 

Q. You are an expert and an old hand at fires ; was this a well- 
managed fire or otherwise? 

A. I should say it was. 

Q. Does anything occur to you now that could have been done that 
was not done ? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. Suppose 3^ou had to do it over again, and you were Chief; do you 
see any tiling that you could do that was not done ? 

A. No, sir ; I think that everything was done that night that men 
could do with what we had to do with. 



JOHN COLLIGAN, sworn. 

Q. {By Mr. Russell.) How long have you been connected with the 
Fire Department of Boston and Roxbury? 

A. Since 1843. I will say I ran two years on trial ; then two years as a 
volunteer, from 1845 to 1847, and have been a regular member from that 
time to the present. 

Q. Where were you when you heard the alarm? 

A. At home. 

Q. Wliat street? 

A. 1996 Washington street, Boston Highlands. 

V 



201 

Q. How soon do you suppose you got in ? 

A. I should say less than thirty minutes. I ran part of the way and 
rode part of the way. From Dover street to Essex street, I think I came 
about as fast as most people want to ride. 

Q. What was the condition of the fire when you reached it? 

A. I got in in time to attack the building next to the one in 
which the fire originated. The apparatus of which I had charge in 
ray district, — Hose No. 7 and Engine No. 13, — was coming down Essex 
street ; I went to them and said to the engine man, " Are you all right? " 
He said he was. I went in the first place into a swell-front house on the 
left-hand side of Kingston street, and from there went into another 
building, on the opposite side, a dwelling-house altered over into a store, 
and got 13's line up to the attic, came down again to look at the build- 
ing and found the fire was corning in under us. I said to Capt. Brown, 
" We will try to get another line to protect our folks up stairs, and try 
to stop it." I came down and met Capt. Brown, and we were going to 
get another line up there, and Capt. Chamberlain came along and said, 
" Have you got a line in that building?" I said, " I have." He said, 
" It is unsafe ; every moment you keep the men there you keep them at 
their peril." I said, " I think we can stop it." He went on to 
describe the building quickly and said it was unsafe. I said, " I 
yield to your judgment," and I ordered the men out and we took 
our station in the street, immediately in front of the building and 
directl}' opposite the front entrance to the stairs. At tliat time, 
Capts. Munroe, Allen, Smith and myself were there. Then we 
sei)arated. Somebody said, " The fire is working up Chauncey street." 
I said to Capt. Smith, " Shall I go, or will you go? " He said he would 
go, leaving me alone. I saw no other Engineer for some considerable 
time. Then Capt. Munroe came round and wanted to know if I could 
help him on Bedford street. I said I had only those lines, and I didn't 
think it was safe to leave. I said, " Look over the ground and see for 
yourself;" and he said that he didn't see that I could help him any. At 
this time I had 13's line in the street and a line from Hose 2 on the 
roof of the dwelling-house on the westerly side of Kingston street. I 
went up On the roof of that and put a ladder upon the new granite build- 
ing facing on Kingston street, and had a line from Engine No. 13, 
manned b}^ members of 15, through the swell-front house, cutting it 
otT to protect the back part of the building on Chauncey street, and when 
I came down I relieved Engine No. 3 and sent them off to report to the 
back side of the fire. I remained there with two streams from Engine 
No. 13, 800 feet on one line and GOO feet on the other, until the 
order came to report on Federal street. I sent back word that 
I ought not to leave. I was alone some little time after that, and the 
order came back to me to report forthwith. I made the same repljs and 
was told the orders were imperative, and of course I obeyed tliem. I re- 
ported in Federal street. They asked what use they could make of gun- 
powder in Summer street. I said it was no use to use it, in my judg- 
ment ; it would do no good at all. I said to Captain Dunbar, " It is 
wicked for me to stay here ; I will go back to Summer street ; if you 
want me, you will know wliere to find me." We stopped it on Kingston 
street, and I. changed right round intoChauncey street,and kept the fire from 



202 

working up Chauncey street to the South end. The fire at that time was 
in the second building on the westerly side of Cliauncey and the southerly 
side of Summer, taking out that corner. Mr. Hovey wanted to know if 
I could save his l)nilding, and I said, " Yes ; I didn't propose to let it go 
any further on tiiat side." Meantime, I gave an order for Engine 2, 
which was stationed on Avon street, to take their line down, and saying 
that I would be back again, I went in with Mr. Hovey and took a survey 
of that building. Capt. Shaw then came round, and I asked him to give 
me a lift ; I told him to take Engine No. 2's line into Hovey's attic and 
stop the fire on that side, and I Avonld take care of it on the other side. 
He got the line up and reported back ; and seeing that we were doing 
about what was right, let that remain until we could take care of it en- 
tirely on the Chauncej'-street side, and sent them down toSturgis street. 
In the mean time, Capt. Chamberlain had asked me to relieve some of the 
force. I said, " If you see any I can spare I will do it." He looked 
over the ground, and said he didn't think I could. The Chief came to 
me and said, "Can you stop the fire here?" I said, " Yes, sir, I pro- 
pose to stop it here." He said, "Are you sure?" I said, "I am; I 
have looked over the ground and am sure." He gave me orders as fast 
as I could relieve any force to send it away. I told him with one engine 
disabled I didn't feel that I could at present, but would as soon as j 
could. Mudge, Sawyer & Co.'s store was packed with goods from 
cellar to attic, so we had to move several cases to get at the win- 
dows. There was no protection in the shape of shutters or anything of 
that kind. We located lines at the different stories, and put a man on 
top of the roof, and gave him notice if anything should occur there on 
the westerly side of Chauncey street to take care of it. We had stopped 
it part way through from Kingston-street side, so far as wo could reach 
that way, and finally accomplished that purpose. I reported in State 
street with the apparatus, and some time in the course of the day, I think, 
but had been there but a few Tuinutes before I had to go back. Before 
that time, however, the Chief came and said, " I want you to make up the 
force." I said, "The people are very much excited in this street, and 
want all the force you can spare." He looked over the ground and said. 
" You had better send it all." I sent otf the apparatus and took a short 
cut to State street and reported to him. We had been there but a few 
moments when word came from Hovey's that they didn't consider them- 
selves safe ; that the fire was rekindling, and they thought it would get 
into the brick building there. It had been in it, in fact, while I was off 
on other business. We went back there again and finally cooled it down, 
and didn't go back there again until Monda}^ ; reported in State street, 
then went to Oliver street, and back to State street into the Post Office, 
and took a stream from the Navy Yard engine into part of the building, 
and cooled the stones of the building. I authorized the man who had com- 
mand to use his judgment to stop the fire, if I should have to leave it, 
and then went into the rear of that freestone building on Devonshire 
street, — Congress square, I believe they call it. I went into the first 
story in the first place, and put out a little fire there. It came through 
very strong in the second and third stories, and we had quite a smart little 
fight there to stop it. Capt. Green came in with a line from No. 15, and 
we finally cheeked it. That was about ten or eleven o'clock. I had orders 



203 



to go home. I did ^o, and had just got into bed when a policeman came 
and notified me the wires were down on the east side of the city, and I 
gave him the keys and ordered him to ring the churcli-bell for anything 
in Boston, no matter what it was. I don't Ivnow how long I had been in 
bed, — I had not had much sleep, but had got warm, — when I heard the 
bell. I got up and dressed as quick as I could and came into Summer 
street, and stayed there until Monday night, and got home at ten o'clock. 

Q. When you were at work on Hovey's building, did they help you 
wilh blankets? 

A. Yes, sir ; they had no shutters on part of their building, sir, and 
of course the fix'e was very intense and veiy hot there. They did nobly 
themselves ; did all they could do. 

Q. How many of them were at work there ? 

A. I could not say. I only saw that they were doing all that lay in 
their power. I put a line in their upper story so we could reach into 
any part of the burning building. We had a good engine and a good 
line, so we could rely on it, and felt satisfied unless something unusual 
shoidd occur we could control the fire. 

Q. Was there any lack of water? 

A. Not on mj^ line. 

Q. Was there any trouble from want of fuel ? 

A. I can only judge that there was. I saw the coal wagon there, and 
they said they were doing all they could. 

Q. Do you know of boxes being used? 

A. I saw boxes being used. I said, "• If you get out of fuel, use any 
fuel 3'ou can get." 

Q. Do you know of any engine that had to stop for want of fuel ? 

A. No, sir ; I told them not to. The lines I had didn't stop. 

Q. How did the men work ? 

A. Nobly. 

Q. Have any trouble with them at all? 

A. No, sir ; I changed lines and broke up lines, and did many things 
that in ordinary cases would have occasioned murmuring, and there was 
none at all. They took hold very cheerfully. I worked the men sO' 
hard that I said to them, " I pity you, but you have got to do it." 

Q. How was the Chief that night? 

A. I saw nothing unusual . with him. He discussed matters as he 
always does, in his quick way, but there was no excitement about him 
at all. 

Q. Do you consider that the fire was well managed? 

A. So far as I had opportunity to judge. 

Q. Should you know how to do better if you had opportunity to do it 
again ? 

A. I have gone over it in my mind. I might have done differently in 
regard to leaving Hovey's. I felt satisfied we should be called back 
again. Still, on the whole, I did the best thing I could. 

Q. That is the only thing you had any doubt about, — leaving there 
at the time you did? 

A. Yes, sir. I wish to say one thing in regard to how our apparatus 
is divided, and what the duties of the Engineers are in their respective 
districts. Each Engineer has so much apparatus to look after. It is 



204 

his duty to see tbat it is fit for service at all times, and at the breaking 
out of the horse-epidemic a meeting of the Board was called. I had 
notified all the principal establishments, like Day's factory, in my section 
of the city, that if there was a fire they must send men. In the mean 
time, I had given the driver of the engine orders to use horses to go to 
Da3''s factor}'. There we have no Cochituate water. We have no 
Cochituute water west of Tremont street. We have one reservoir be- 
tween the railroad crossing and Parker street. I told him, " I want 
those horses put on any way." I gave that order to him on Monday 
night. We had the meeting Saturday night. He came or sent word to 
me, Tuesday, " I can't use my horses at all ; can't get them out of the 
stable." I notified the Rubber Co. that I should call on their engines, 
and I wanted them to place at my disposal all the hose in their factory ; 
and notified the carpet-factor^^ and the paper-factory, and other large es- 
tablishments ; and they said they would keep their horses at my disposal. 
The paper-factory said they had no hose, and I said I would furnish 
them. Mr. Day and all the large establishments agreed to furnish men. 
I notified Hose 7 (the}' do not respond to an}'^ box north of Dover 
street until the general alarm) if they saw anything suspicious to start 
at once and I would take the responsibility. Engine No. 13 was not to 
start until the fourth alarm. I said, " Don't you wait if you see anything 
that looks suspicious." I secured horses of Mr. Mahau. His stable is 
about 450 to 500 feet away on Hampshire street. He agreed to furnish 
horses, and I gave him a list of the boxes we went to and the alarms. 
He didn't get his horses out in time. He started on the second alarm, 
but they had gone and he didn't overtake them. They came in by hand. 

Q. How far did he come with his horses? 

A. I don't know. He said he didn't see anything .of them. Hose No. 7 
started, and they got in, as near as I can learn, very promptly ; and 
from the time the alarm was struck, until 13 was ready to work, did not 
exceed thirt}^ minutes. 

Q. What number was that where the horses did not overtake the 
engine ? 

A. 13, Boston Highlands, stationed on Cabot street; used to be 
Ruggies street. I should like to say one thing. We consider it a part 
of our duty, of course, to look out for our sections, and do what we can 
to prevent fires and facilitate putting t'^^^m out. I have made two or 
three applications to the Water Board to lay a pipe from Washington 
street to Harrison avenue ; and they said they would not lay a foot of 
pipe for fire purposes. West of Tremont street we have only one reser- 
voir. The territor}' is composed of wooden buildings, some of them 
very large and very combustible. I waited upon Mr. Day and Mr. 
Rogers (they are large property-holders in that district) two years ago, 
and told them they must do something themselves ; we could not do 
anything ; we were powerless. 

Q. Who did you apply to? 

A. George Lewis. I told him the condition we were in. 

Q. You made a verbal application? 

A. Yes, sir. The territory 1 wished to protect was between Eustis 
street, Harrison avenue, and Hunneman streets. There is a large plan- 
ing mill in that territory, engine shops, and dwellings. He said to me. 



205 



" It is no use ; thej^ will not la}' one foot of pipe for fire purposes. I 
told liim that on Harrison Avenue the pipe stopped dead end ; that if 
an engine started at the end, she drew all the water away from the one 
behind, and vice ver^a; whichever starts first gets all the water and the 
other don't get any. He said, " "We cannot help 3'ou any." 1 felt very anx- 
ious about that section. 

Q. Have you made any representations since Mr. Lewis left? 

A. Only through Mr. Da}- and Mr. Rogers. I told them to go to work, 
when we were powerless. 

Q. Has there been any action taken in the Board upon this matter? 

A. The matter has been talked over and my reply has been, " It i^ 
no use to try in our section of the city." I have said this in the Board : " The 
only way to do is to get the owners of property to move," and I told 
them what I had done, that I called upon Mr. Day and Mr. Rogers to 
get them to exert themselves to get water, that we were powerless, and 
it laid with them and the Water Board whether this section should be 
protected. 

Q. It is more important now because there have been more buildings 
put up ? 

A. Yes, sir. It is increasing every day. Some are ver\' high and 
some are of a very combustible nature. In the vicinity of tTie new 
planing-mill on what is now Parker street, we have no supply of water, 
and I told the owners when thej' first moved there it was their duty to 
look after it ; that anything we could do in the shape of a recommenda- 
tion we would do, but it belonged to them to get water. We must de- 
pend upon the high tide ; the hydrants will hardly supply the boilers. If 
you felt as I do about it, you would not get many nights' sleep. 

Q. Have they put in Lowry h3-drauts in their new work in Roxbury? 

A. Everything there is Lowry, with the exception of where it runs 
down on the dead-end. There they have put in a Boston hydrant. The 
water before annexation was from reservoirs and from Jamaica Pond. The 
chief advantage of Jamaica Pond was supplying our reservoirs. While 
using that, we had gates within a reasonable distance, and since that 
time, at the expense of the Fire Department in Roxbury, we had pipes 
run up from the low land on Tremont street, up to the corner of Ruggles 
street. That gave us additional hydrants there, but they were Boston 
hydrants, and when the pipe was laid, it was in the charter that the City 
of Roxbury could have as many hydrants as they chose for fire pur- 
poses ; we only had three or four on the entire line within the limits of 
Roxbury ; but since that time, there is no section better protected than in 
the vicinity of Tremont and Ruggles street. We have in that section 
probably 60 lbs. pressure. It comes right from the main pipe. We have 
some hydrants on the sidewalk and some in the street. We prefer 
to have them in the sidewalk. 



Adjourned to Thursday, at 3 p. m. 



20(3 



FIFTH DAT. 

Thursday, Dec. 5th. 

JOSEPH BARNES, sioorn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Where do you live? 

A. Ill East Boston. 

Q. When did you go to the fire ? 

A. The fire had been burning perhaps forty minutes before I was 
there. We do not go at the first alarm from the city, from East 
Boston . 

Q. Was this the third or the fourth alarm? 

A. It was the fourth. We had four that night altogether. I went at the 
fourth. The other Engineer went at thie second. Perhaps it would be 
necessary to state that we have rules and regulations in regard to that. 
We have certain boxes to go to, at the second alarm, in the city with our 
own apparatus, — box 2 to 23. Then we skip to 36, 37, and 41. We 
go at the second alarm, with one engine and one Engineer. 

Q. What was the condition of things when you reached the fire? 

A. The fire was going into Otis street, as you pass down there by 
Beebe's block, oft' from Summer street. 

Q. What was done to prevent its getting into Otis street? 

A. Everything that could be done in regard to playing on it. 

Q. How many engines? 

A. There were some three or four engines on Otis street and down by 
the front of Beebe's block when I got there. 

Q. Were there any firemen on the roofs of buildings? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. On what buildings ? 

A. On the building on the right of Otis street, as you come from Sum- 
mer down into Devonshire. I call it on the north side of Beebe's block. 

Q. Where were they playing ? 

A. They were playing on to the fire on both sides of the street. Some 
of the streams were upon the sidewalks inlaying up upon the sides of 
buildings. Others were on top, playing across. 

Q. Do you say that all was done that could be done there to prevent 
its crossing? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Can you think of anything now that was not done that ought to 
have been done? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) Did it look as though the}^ could stop the 
fire in Otis street? 

A. I didn't think so. I thought the fire had got the control. 

Q. Where did you go after tliat ? 

A. I kept there until the fire drove me down Devonshire street, and 
bad two engines that I shifted until we got down into Franklin street, 



207 

and then I took a turn upFranklid street towards Washington, and fought 
the fire from Beebe's block down Devonshire to Franklin, and then up 
Franklin to Washington. 

Q. Can you tell us how the fire got across Franklin street, whether in 
the wide or narrow part? 

A. Yes, sir. I was there and saw the whole of it. The heat of the 
buildings on the upper side of Devonshire street, on both corners of 
Devonshire and Franklin streets, was very great. As we fought the fire, 
we kept all the streams on the opposite side of Franklin street, to i)re- 
vent the fire from crossing over, and we held it there quite a while. But 
the heat was so intense that it finally caught. 

Q. Where did it finall}^ catch ? 

A. It caught on the upper part of the buildings — on the Mansard 
roofs. That was on the north side of Franklin, corner of Devonshire. I 
happened to be at that point, 

Q. About how many buildings caught at once ? 
, A. The signs on the buildings and the roofs caught about together, I 
should think, perhaps. We were playing there for two hundred feet. 
There were several streams. I was on the upper two streams. That is the 
nearest to Washington street. I should think there were some six or 
eight streams below me quite a distance — some one hmidred and fifty 
to two hundred feet below me. The first place where the fire got fairly 
under way was nearlj^ opposite the lower corner of Devonshire street. I 
think it crossed over first just opposite the lower corner. But there was 
not a great deal of difference between the upper and lower coi'ner. 

Q (B}' Mr. Greene.) That was Brewer's building? 

A. I think so. Then it worked right up Franklin street against the 
wind, that is, the wind drew the other waj', because on the south side of 
Franklin street the buildings were on fire in back up further than they 
were on Franklin street. The fire was some one hundred and fifty or two 
hundred feet further up on the south than on the north side of Franklin 
street, but still it was on the north side working up towards Washington 
very fast, aud, of course, working towards the new Post Office, — 
working in that way down Devonshire. 

Q. Can 3'ou think now of any way by which that could have been 
stopped ? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. Do you think there was any chance to use gunpowder there? 

A. Well, I don't think that there was. 

Q. Why not? 

A. Because I think that using gunpowder so near would only have 
shattered the building and let the fire in quicker than it would otherwise 
have gone in. 

Q. Take that spot, Frankli)\ street, right across, suppose those roofs 
had not been Mansard, with the customary wooden trimmings, do you 
think the fire could have been stopped there ? 

A. Well, I think it rather doubtful. There was such intense heat that 
it was almost impossible to stand there. In the first of it, of course we stood 
over on the north side of Franklin street, but the heat came so heavy on 
us that we had to back out each way — that is, down and up. I backed 
up towards Washington street. 



208 



Q. Was there any want of water there ? 

A. Yes, sir, there was. 

Q. To what extent was there a want of water ? 

A. They could not play a very good stream. The streams were cut 
short some, on account of the want of water. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) Where did you draw water from? 

A. We drew it from the reservoir up on Franklin street. The want 
of water was not so great then as it was later at the fire on Washington 
street. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) Did you draw the reservoir down below the 
suction ? 

A. Well, it was at some times. When we had but one engiue at a 
hydrant, that worked very well. 

Q. Was there any want of fuel there on Otis street or Franklin street? 

A. Not at that time. I never heard anything about fuel or any call 
for it. 

Q. You went into Washington street next ? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Where did you fight the fire then ? 

A. I fought it up on Franklin street until it came into Washington, 
there I fought it from the Old South down to below Franklin. Some 
part of the time it was on to Mudge's building — from there to the Old 
South. 

Q. Did you play on to Mr. Donahoe's '' Boston Pilot " building? 

A. No, sir, I don't think I did. 

Q. Was tliere any great trouble in Franklin street from the falling of 
granite ? 

A. Well, there was some. There were some tremendous heavy falls 
there. 

Q. What luck did you have on Washington street? 

A. We had very good luck when we arrived on Washington sti'eet. 
We had more help from engines coming from out of town ; brouglit their 
streams down Bromfield and Winter streets, and then we had the reser- 
voir from the Old South. We had two or three streams there froui 
Charlestown, and we made a very good battery, and on the opposite 
side from tlie corner of Milk street and Wasliington street — the last 
building that burnt there opposite to the Old South. We had an engine 
in Province court, and took a stream on top of a building ; and then the 
men that owned the buildings had got on to them and put on carpets 
and wet cloths, and kept their buildings wet on the eaves, and we played up 
with our streams on the front of the buildings oii Washington street, 
and I took one stream up from Province court, which made a very good 
chance to work, and we wet those buildings down perhaps three hundred 
feet each way. These carpets and old rugs stopped the fire from crossing ; 
otherwise I think it would have crossed Washington street, if they liad 
not put out rugs and old sails and everything that the}' had. Tliere was 
a flat-roofed building with a little summer-house on top of it. That 
caught right off. The}- had hard work to keep all those buildings from 
burning along there for two hundred or three hundred feet. It caught 
once at the corner of Bromfield and Washington streets. There is a low 
building there with roof windows. They have now repaired the windows 



209 



by putting in new boards. Those caught and burned quite briskly, and 
we got a stream down Bromfield street. There was another engine that 
came up and played on them and put them out. These carpets and 
cloths were all together on the west side of Washington street on the 
fronts, and hung over the roofs. They kept them wet by putting water 
on them. We had a good chance with our stream to wet three hundred 
feet. They had blanketed that so that we could work along for four or 
five buildings each way. It was daylight when we calculated that Wash- 
ington street was safe. 

Then there was some one that came to me and stated that several en- 
gines in State street wanted to be set to work. We went round to 
Oliver and Batterymarcli streets. They were mostly out-of-town engines. 
With the help of others, we set as many engines to work as we could 
and backed them up, that is, took the hydrants below. There were 
some of them that could not reach the hydrants at that time. Where the 
fire got down to the corner of Battery march street, you will see the last 
building that was burned. There was a very high building in front of it 
there that stopped the fire. We had some twelve or fourteen streams. 
We made a point to stop it there if possible, and we did. There were 
no blankets or carpets used there at all. It was an old-fashioned slated 
roofed building, rather low. We had a good chance to work upon it all 
around. There is a vacant lot on Fort Hill. We made a very good 
fight there and stopped the fire. 

Q. Did you do anything after that ? 

A. No, sir. We stayed there until dark, but we calculated the fire 
was all safe after one o'clock. 

Q. You say there was no want of fuel on Franklin street. Where 
was there a want of fuel ? 

A. On Washington street, the latter part of the night. They had 
three or four engines down to the reservoir, and the Charlestown suc- 
tions gave out. We waited ten or fifteen minutes and stopped two good 
streams on account of want of water. I took two streams up into a 
building before I got the one on Province court. I had one of the 
Assistant Engineers with me, and we got the two streams up, which was 
a great deal of trouble ; and when we got them up, there was no water. 
There was no want of fuel where I was. 

Q. How did the firemen behave ? 

A. The men behaved well. There was no exception to that in the 
Boston Fire Department. 

Q. When did you see the Chief that night? 

A. I saw him frequently. The first time I saw him was when I first 
arrived at the fire. He spoke to me and wanted tb know what there was 
from East Boston. We were all there. Ever}' thing was there excepting 
one hose carriage. That is everything that we ever take off. There is 
one carriage that we have had there latel}^ 

Q. How did the Chief appear ? 

A. He seemed to be cool and all right. 

Q.> How about your East Boston apparatus? Some of it came over 
before you did ? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. At what rate did it come, fast or slow ? 
14 



210 



A. It came very fast. It came by hand, but very quick. When they 
went into the boat they had, I should think, thirty or forty men and two 
engines. 

Q. When j^ou came over did any apparatus come with you? 

A. Yes, sir, No. 5 ; it came quick l)y hand. I should think they had 
forty men when they went off the other side. 

Q. How many minutes were lost by having men instead of horses to 
draw the apparatus? 

A. Well, I should think it would make some difference ; I should think 
maybe it would make ten minutes' difference. 

Q. What was the number of the engine you went with from East Bos- 
ton? 

A. No. 5. 

Q. Did you have any experience with gunpowder? 

A. I did not and never have had, 

Q. Did you see anything done with it that night? 

A. Something, not much. 

Q. Were you there when they tried to blow up Currier & Trott's 
building? 

A. No, sir. The only blowing up I saw was the first that was done ; 
that was on Federal street. 

Q. What was the effect there ? 

A. The effect was bad. 

Q. How was it bad ? 

A. It shattered the building ; and another thing was, that after they 
had put their powder in the building, they had to take their apparatus 
away from the fire and stop playing. 

Q. Should you recommend the use of gunpowder in case of a simi- 
lar fire ? 

A. No, sir ; for the reasons I have already given, I should not. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbriok.) Could not those reasons be obviated by 
having preparations made beforehand? 

A. Yes, sir ; I think they might. I think gunpowder might be effect- 
ually used if it was properly managed, and prepared beforehand in 
proper form, and there were regular men who understood the business. 

Q. With the means and the preparation that the Fire Department had, 
could they have done better than they did? 

A. I think they did everything that lay in their power, every man of 
them. 

Q. How long have you been connected with the Fire Department? 

A. Twenty-two years in succession. 

Q. How did the hose behave that night? 

A. Well, we had some burst, but where I was, it was no more than 
could be expected. 

Q. As a general thing, was the behavior of the hose that night good 
or bad ? 

A, I think it was about as usual in such cases. Of course, it was a 
large fire, and there was n)ore or less hose lost ; but where I was, we 
didn't lose any of it. In coming from Franklin street, there was some 
of the hose that bursted, as is always the case at all fires. 

Q. Did j'ou consider the hose good, or bad? 



211 



A. I think the hose where I was was as good as it generally is. "We 
always have more or less trouble with the hose, no matter what kind we 
have. It is nothing uncommon to go to a fire and when we first get a 
stream, some one will sa}^, " Your hose has bursted," 

Q. From what yon know, do you think better hose could be got in Bos- 
ton? 

A. I don't think it could, not any hose that we have. I don't know 
but better hose could be made. 

Q. Do you know of better hose ? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. (B}^ Mr. Cobb.) If there had been a better supply of water and 
the Lowry hydrants had been used, what difference would there have 
been in your fight with the fire? 

A. Well, I don't think the fire could have been put out after it got the 
start. Taking the fire when I arrived at it, I don't think we could have 
put it out any way, with all the water that we could wish for. 

Q. Could you have made a better fight if you had had more water? 

A. 1 think we could not have put it out, the fire was working in so 
many different ways. In fact, there were four or five large fires at that 
time, 

Q. Then what was it that enabled you to check it at all ? 

A. I tell you that on Washington street we had more force ; we had 
some force from out of town, and then I think the wind rather died away, 
and that was one thing, and we had more streams combined together and 
more concentration on Washington street, and, somehow or other, the 
flames did not seem to work across so much as they did on Devonshire 
street when it crossed. On the opposite side of Franklin, there seemed 
to be a more intense heat and the fire was more spiteful than it was on 
Washington street. 



GEORGE 0. CARPENTER, sivorn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) You are an ex-alderman of the city of 
Boston ? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. What time did you go to the fire ? 

A. I should think it was about nine o'clock. 

Q. When did you first go to the City Hall to meet the Mayor? 

A. I did not see him that evening. 

Q. Did you go to the City Hall that evening? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Did you see the Chief there? 

A. I saw the Chief of Police. I stopped at his door as I went up 
stairs. 

Q. Did you see the Chief Engineer? 

A. No, sir. I received something from him. 

Q. Have you that document here ? 

A. Yes, sir. It is made out to Mr. Fabyan and I'eads as follows : — 
" Will blow up buildings or remove goods as his judgment directs." 
That was lianded to me by a gentleman whom I did not know or could 



212 

not see. I was with a crowd of gentlemen, pushed into the Chief of 
Police's office. I asked the Chief what it was. He said it meant to re- 
ceive the men, whom he detailed at once. 

Q. State anything that you did in pursuance of that authority. 

A. The first thing I did was to request the patrolmen placed under 
my charge to meet me at the corner of State and Devonshire streets. 
My impression is. that four officers were placed under my charge by the 
Chief. 

Q. At what time was this? 

A. It was a long time after twelve o'clock. I should say about two 
o'clock. 

Q. Did they meet you there ? 

A. Yes, sir, they met me there in a few minutes' time. The first 
inquiry as I left the Chief's office was, " Where can any people who 
understand the business and powder be obtained ? " One of the patrol- 
men, then in the office, stated that he knew where powder could be 
obtained. Then the Chief said, " Very well, you know where to get 
it. " He went then to Dock square. He came back in a few minutes 
and said that it was necessar}^ for me to go there in person, as some one 
in authority must say saj- something about powder. I went down there 
and found Mr. Reed, the Engineer, of the firm of Wm. Reed & Son, 
sitting on a box, which he said had something which he did not want to 
put into any store, except by consent of a policeman, and he was ready 
to give me any information. I told him I had simply come down to 
ascertain where powder could be obtained in case it was wanted. He 
said it could be obtained, a certain portion, as it was wanted, in a store 
opposite, pointing out two or three places ; and he placed certain quan- 
tities of powder in the carriage, which our men had then obtained. 

Q. What quantity ? 

A. My impression would be two hundred pounds, in cans. 

Q. What was done with that? 

A. That was taken to the corner of Milk and Devonshire streets, 
where it was stated to us that General Burt would be found. 

Q. What was done then ? 

A. At that time we waited for some one who knew about the business 
to appear. Who the parties were that appeared then, I am unable to 
say, except that two or three of my patrolmen stuck very close to me, to 
see that the powder was not delivered to the wrong parties. I cannot 
say who the parties were. 

Q. What did they do? 

A. Well, now, I must say right here, that of my own knowledge they 
did nothing, and that 1 know nothing. 

Q. Pass over all that you don't know of your own knowledge. Do 
you know anything about any other powder that night? Do 3"ou know 
anything of your own knowledge of any incidents that occurred in the 
street? 

A. I know that I entered no building to take charge of the matters 
inside, excepting in one case, in Congress street. 1 went into a build- 
ing that was burning at the corner of Lindall and Congress streets, 
believing that they were preparing tp blow it up. I wanted to see that 
there was no one hurt of a line of persons that were stationed at the 



213 

stores ; to see that the men were all called down before the powder was 
blown. We got them all out of the way. 

Q. Was that building blown? 

A. There was a loud noise came from it, sir, and I supposed some- 
thing of that kind had happened. 

Q. Did it fall? 

A. I can't say. I was running for my own preservation. 

Q. Did you see any building fall that night apparently from an 
explosion ? 

A. No, sir, I did not. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) Was there any explosion at the corner of 
Milk and Devonshire streets after j^ou had delivered the powder there? 

^1. Yes, sir. I heard an explosion, whether from falling walls or 
whatever it may be, I don't know. 

Q. Did you remove or direct the removal of any gunpowder from any 
building that night? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. AVhere was that? 

A. In the Mutual Insurance Co.'s building on Congress street. It 
was placed there temporarily, because the parties who brought it were 
determined to unload it there. It remained only a few minutes. 

Q. Did you direct its removal ? 

A. I ordered a man placed there to assist in removing it, the instant 
some one appeared to take charge of it. 

Q. Do 3^ou Icnow where it was carried ? 

A. I do not know where it was carried. 

Q. Was there any other instance in which jou directed the removal of 
gunpowder from a building? 

A. Not that I recollect at this moment. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) You say jj^ou were told that General Burt could 
be found at the corner of Devonshire street. Did you find him? 

A. No, sir : not until quite a while afterwards. He came to me after- 
wards and informed me of authority, which I think was similar to this, 
and showed me the paper. 

Q. Was he acting under that authorit}'? 

A. Not at that time. He stated that he had that authority, and had 
been assisting some one in doing something, but I can't recollect just 
what the words were. My impression was that he was endeavoring to 
assist in saving the Government property. 

Q. Did you notice anything special about the management of the fire 
which you think ought to be recorded or examined into ? 

A. No, sir, I did not. 

Q. So far as you observed the working of the Fire Department, how 
were they working? 

A. They were doing everything that was possible, after I reached it. 
I saw the Chief several times. lie was very active indeed. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) Was he cool? 

A. No, sir ; I can't say that he appeared to be cool, because it was a 
moment that required more than an}' human nature that I ever saw, to be 



214 

strictly cool, and to be active. He seemed to understand what he was 
talking about most thoroughly, and in giving directions seemed to be 
acting on a plan which I thought he fully comprehended. 

Q. Was he in possession of his faculties, apparently? 

^. He was most decidedly in possession of his faculties. "When he 
told me that he was determined that the fire should not reach State 
street, it seemed to me that he was carrying out a plan which he did carry 
out ; and that although the fire was raging very fiercely, he was master of 
the situation. He had a general intelligent plan and was working upon it. 

Q. Did he speak of powder ? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Did he favor it? 

A. Yes, sir ; he requested me verbally, and spoke to me like this : 
" George, I want those two buildings blown up at once. 1 want them 
blown simultaneously." 

Q. What buildings were they? 

A. One on the corner of Water and Congress streets, and the other ou 
the corner of Water above Congress. 

Q. Was there an explosion in those buildings ? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Both of them ? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. How effectual was it? 

A. In my judgment it was very effectual, and the fire was held in con- 
sequence at the corner of Water and Congress streets for several hours. 

Q. It produced a good effect, then ? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. How much of the building came down? 

A. My impression is, that the Merchants' Insurance Building was al- 
most a complete wreck. 

Q. Did the roof fall? 

A. The opportunity to see it was only for a moment. There was an 
immense hole made by the explosion, and the fire was kept in check in 
consequence. I knew from what he said, and the orders I heard him 
give, that his design was to have water placed upon these two buildings 
at once, he believing that a large area would be created at once. He 
then said, however, that State street was his line of the fire. 

Q. (By Mr. Fjrth.) Was there any other explosion which seemed to 
you to be serviceable in staying the progress of the conflagration ? 

A. Yes, sir ; the explosion of Leonard's eating-house, on Congress 
Water street. When that fell, I thought that was very excellent service. 
That was under the advice of Gen. Beuham. I believe the fire did not 
go bej'ond it. 

Q. Was there much fire coming out of these ruins after the explosion? 
Did the rubbish take fire immediately ? 

A. I observed no fire at the corner of Congress and Water streets until 
the fire spread across to Simmons's block. 

Q. (By Mr. Fikth.) How was it at the other place — the first blow- 
ing up ? Did a fire spring up there ? 



215 

A. My impression is, that the building was on fire before it exploded. 

Q. Did yon notice any want of water during tbe evening ? 

A. On Franklin street, I don't know that I noticed an}^ want of water. 
On the northerly side of that street, the Engineers expressed themselves 
that it would not go across, but it did. 

Q. Did you see it cross Franklin street? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. How was it done? 

A. "When the wool warehouse took fire, it was perfectly safe on the 
north side of franklin street. Afterwards, Smith, Stebbins & Go's., Dud- 
ley, Poor & Co.'s, and Whiting, Frost & Co.'s warehouses took fire. Up 
to that time, there had no fire gone across. 

Q. Did you notice it when it crossed, and where it crossed? 

A. Yes, sir. It apparently crossed a little west of Isaac Fenno & 
Go's. That is on the south-east corner of Devonshire and Franklin streets, 
a little west of that corner. 

Q. Where did you see the fire first ? 

A. I saw it on the eaves. The other side seemed to take from the 
wool of Harding's. It shot across the street as though it was an explo- 
sion. It sounded similar to what we heard in the latter part of the even- 
ing, from the blowing up of buildings. 

Q. Did the firemen attack that corner vigorously? 

A. I was up as far as Donahoe's block, and could not say. In the 
mean time, they had cleared the street. 



JOHN S. HOLMES, sivorn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) What is your occupation ? 

A. I am a member of the Boston bar. 

Q. On the night of the great fire, how early did you go to it? 

A. I was going down from my house, and stopped on the corner of 
Summer and Washington streets, about twenty minutes past seven, I 
should think (I took no absolute note of the time), meeting there Major 
Sanderson, of the Custom House. While standing and talking with 
him, I was looking down Summer street and saw a smoke going up over 
a building, and called his attention to it, saying that there must be a 
fire there. We at once started on the run, and when we got on the 
north side of Summer street, near Trinity Church, we both cried out, 
" Fire," and continued our way down to this building. At that time, no 
alarm had been given, at least not audible to me. 

Q. What was the condition of the building ? 

A. As I came down towards the building, I saw, in the basement 
story, what at first looked like a large globe of fire. I saw it through 
the basement window as I came down. I looked across diagonallj'. I 
looked across and saw that the building and the windows were so sit- 
uated that I could look the entire length of the basement, and in tlie 
Kingston-street end of the basement was, apparently, a large globe or 
ball of fire. It looked so to the eye. 



216 

Q. Was there any fire in the other stories? 

A. There was no fire visible in the first story, or second story of the 
building. There was then breaking out in the third story on Kingston 
street a thick smoke, and that colored smoke which almost instantly 
precedes the bursting out of a fire ; and there was, also, in the Mansard 
roof of the building the same kind of smoke in several places. 

Q. How long after you first saw the fire was the alarm given, to your 
knowledge ? 

A. I did not hear the fire alarm at all. There was so much noise in 
a very few minutes that I paid no attention to an}^ alarm. 

Q. How soon did you see any apparatus for extinguishing the fire? 

A. The first apparatus I saw was coming down through Otis place — a 
hook and ladder company. 

Q. How soon after you got there? 

A. I should say it seemed to be from ten to fifteen minutes, and a 
hose-carriage came along about that time. It was some minutes later 
before an engine came ? 

Q. Do you know the number of the hose company ? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. Where did it station itself? 

A. It ran down on Summer street, below the hook and ladder com- 
pany. The hook and ladder company hurried directly out on fSummer 
street, almost directly opposite the building that was then on fire, and 
they commenced breaking in the doors, or attempting to break in the 
doors. I did not see the hose attached to the hydrant, but I waited there 
until after they began to play. I was there two hours or more. The 
engine came up drawn by hand, and ran down and was stationed on the 
corner of Kingston street just belovr Summer. 

Q. How soon did that begin to play after it got there ? 

A. It began to play within a very short time ; but it played A^ery im- 
perfectly. I noticed that the jets of water did not strike the third 
story. 

Q. When that engine passed, did there appear to be any fire in the 
engine? 

A. I did not notice any ; but I had the impression from the imper- 
fectness of the jet that they had not steam up, or if they had started 
steam, that the coal had burned out. 

Q. Did the playing of water from that engine improve? 

A. Yes, sir, it did after a little time. It began to throw more dis- 
tinctly. 

Q. Did you see whether the hose-carriage or engine came fast or 
slow ? 

A. The first that I saw, the hose-carriage came with considerable ra- 
pidity, and also the hook and ladder came with considerable rapidity. 
On the steam fire-engine, I thought the men were tired out, as if thej- 
had been running hard. That engine came slowly through Otis street. 

Q. AVas there anything else about the fire that you observed that was 
worthy of notice ? 

A. Nothing except what was curious to me in the rapidity with which 
it worked through tiie Mansard roofing. I watched its working through 



217 

the Mansard roofing of the first building ; and then I got a position 
which enabled me to see how curiously it struck across the street and 
went down through Winthrop place. The flame, as I noticed it, went 
almost at right angles suddenly, as if by direction, human or divine. It 
crossed the street almost at right angles, and struck in, and the fire was 
continued on. 

Q. Did you see it when it crossed to the corner of Otis street? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Was there any eflfort made by the Fire Department to stay the fire 
there ? 

A. I didn't notice any particular effort there. I think the attention 
was then speciall}^ paid to the block on Summer street, because the fire 
was extending down through the various roofs of that large block on 
Summer street, I cannot saj^ what people thought, but I did not see 
any particular attention paid to the building opposite, because I was a 
few minutes before standing just at the base of that building opposite, 
and I thought the fire was being confined entirely to that side of the 
street until I saw these rapid and angular movements of the flames. 

Q. Did there appear to be much wind ? 

A. No, sir ; the wind was exceedingly qniet and still at first ; but 
there was suddenly a good deal of wind, and the upper currents of the 
air were very apparent, because this flame must have been carried by 
currents of air. 

Q. What distance was it carried ? 

A. The whole width of the street. It seemed one whole tongue of 
flame. It was just as the roof was breaking out — the projections upon 
the window-frames and parts of the Mansard roofs began to peel ofi" 
and fall, and that of course gave a larger space for the pla}^ of the flre 
in the roof. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) Did there appear to be a plentiful supply of 
water ? 

A. I could not judge, because my attention was called to this one 
engine which first came down, and which threw this imperfect stream. 
I watched that. Apparently, the diameter of the jet of water was large ; 
but whether it was owing to the imperfectness of the engine or some other 
cause, why it did not throw higher I could not tell at the time. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) Did you see any engines come later? 

^4. Yes, sir. 

Q. How did they come as to speed ? 

A. I could scarcely tell, because the streets were so crowded in a mo- 
ment, it being Saturday night, when people are all abroad. It took a 
very few moments to empty AYashington street down to the bottom of 
the fire. The streets were so crowded that the engines had to come very 
slowly the last part of the way. They had to force their way through the 
crowd. The first engine that came that I noticed, there was no crowd 
to obstruct it. I did not notice what engine that was. I thought it 
might have been this engine here, because that was the nearest. The 
first engine that I saw came through Otis street. 

Q. Did you see the Chief? 

^1. No, sir. In a few moments, Mr. Sanderson got hold of the rope 



218 

and helped get it across to keep the crowd out. I thought the firemen 
seemed to attack the fire with great vigor. 

Q. Did this crowd interfere with tlie working? 

A. I thought they did at first, until they began to rope it off. I 
thought at first that the crowd was in the way. 



Dr. T. S. perry, sicorn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) What is your occupation? 

A. Veterinary surgeon. I have charge of the horses of the Fire 
Department. 

Q. What was the condition of the horses at the time of the fire? 

A. Those that I had charge of were about recovering from the fever, 
a majority of them, but they were left prostrate and weak, which was 
the result of disease. 

Q. In most of the cases where the horses have been sick, were they 
fit to be used ? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) What number do you speak of as not being fit 
for use ? 

A. Of all those that I had immediate charge of. Thei'e were some 
horses belonging to some engines that I did not go to see, because they 
were not severely ill. I had charge perhaps at that time of the horses 
of seven or eight engine companies and one or two hook and ladder 
companies — two I think, and perhaps five or six hose companies, 
and two extinguisher wagons. 

Q. In their condition at that time could they have been used to 
advantage ? Suppose j^ou had been careless of the life of the horses, do 
you think they could have gone ? • 

A. It was onlj^ with extreme difficulty that they could be taken out of 
the stalls, and one, that we were a little careless about, did fall down 
upon the hard pine floor. He backed out as sick horses would back out 
of the stall. They had almost all to be supported. 

Q. Did this apply to one-half the horses of the department, or more ? 

A. Probably about one-half. 

Q. AVhat do you know about the condition of the other half? . 

A. Tbe other half were ailing, and had been off their feed, all of them. 
I was unable to see the whole of them, because I was so busy attending 
to these, and the horses of the Health Department, and my outside prac- 
tice, that I could only see extreme cases. I told Mr. Damrell, that if 
any horse was reported as being extremely ill, he should let me know, 
and I would go if I could go. Some I could attend to, and some I 
could not. But I furnished medicine for all of them, with directions for 
ts use, and the symptoms which would indicate its use. 



219 



ALBERT STAN WARD, sivorn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) What position do j^ou hold ? 

A. I am Superintendent of the Western Division of the Water Works. 

Q. What is the Western Division ? 

A. It takes from the Brookline gate-house all west of that, the Chest- 
nut Hill reservoir, and the works at Framingham. 

Q. What map have you there? 

A. I simply drew this off to show the distribution on the burnt 
district. 

Q. Does it show all the hydrants? 

A. I think not. I merely wanted the pipes ; but I see he has got the 
most of the hydrants, and they average two hundred and fifty feet apart. 

Q. Does it show the size of the pipe ? 

A. Yes, sir, the color indicates that. Here "is "Washington street, 
that shows the 24-inch pipe. Here is Bedford street, showing the 12- 
inch connection. There is Broad street, with the 12-inch. There is 
Pearl street. Follow this 12-inch pipe right round to State street, up 
State to Washington. This red line indicates the 16-inch pipe. There 
is Milk street. Summer street has 6-inch pipes. 

Q. Is there anything else indicated on the map ? 

A. The small red lines show 4-inch pipes. There is a court ealled 
Milton place, which has 4-inch pipes, but the main distributing pipes 
are 6-inch. 

Q. Are there any Lowry hydrants in that department? 

A. No, sir. The onty one set in the city proper was in Winthrop 
square, at the request of the Charlestown Water Board, to test the 
power of the hydrant. At that time, I had charge of the Eastern Divis- 
ion. I set it by consent of the Board, and the steamers went there 
and tested it, to see if it answered the requirements. It proved to be 
successful ; and after the test was over, it remained there some little 
time, but as our steamers had nothing to attach to it, it was taken out, 
and there have been no Lowry hydrants since. That was in 1862. 
That was m'erely put in for the experiment. It worked well, so that the 
Charlestown authorities adopted it. 

Q. Did you, as an expert, recommend its use at that time? 

A. Yes, sir. I think I sent a testimonial to Mr. Lowry. 

Q. Do you know why it has not been adopted by the Board ? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. "What is the comparative cost of that and of the old hydrant which 
you use ? 

A. That I could not give you. I have been upon this division since 
1863. I resigned, and was gone three years, and then was recalled to 
the Chestnut Hill reservoir, so that the cost of those hydrants is some- 
thing that I had nothing to do with. Mr. Jones, the Superintendent 
of that division, is now sick, and I am acting for him. I should think 
he would be able to be out in the course of a week. 

Q. Is there anybody else who would know what he does about that? 

A. No, sir. He is the man in regard to that, because he has furnished 
those hydrants for the Roxbury district and Dorchester district. 



220 



L. FOSTER MORSE, sicorn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) What time did you go to the fire on the night 
of the ninth ? . 

A. I could not tell what time. I did not leave Roxbur}^ until the 
fourth alarm. I was in my oftice. 

Q. Did you have anything to do with gunpowder that night? 

A. I don't know that I did. I don't know that I should want to say 
anything about that. 

Q. You are not bound to. Did you have any authority from the Chief 
Engineer that night? 

A. No, sir, no authority from him. 

Q. Did you receive any written paper from him ? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. Or from an}' one ? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. Did you see any explosions that night? 

A. 1 heard some. 

Q. Did you see the building fall at the time you heard tlie noise ? 

A. Yes, sir, I saw one building fall after the noise was made. That 
was next to the new Post Office on Water street, corner of Water and 
Congress street — 'the building with the high bay-windows. 

Q. Did that fall completely ? 

A. It came very nearly down. It left one wall that stands there now. 
That was all that remained. 

Q. Did the firemen play upon the ruins? 

A. A short time afterwards the}' did. There was no occasion at that 
time. The fire was at the corner of Milk street at that time. There 
was no fire that originated in the ruins of that building until it caught 
from the building beyond. 

Q. When it fell, they did not play on the ruins to soak them? 

A. No, sir. The engines were there, but they did not play there be- 
cause they kept playing farther up the street. 

Q. Did 3'ou see an}' other building come down? 

A. I did not see any come wholly down. 

Q. Was there anything else worthy of notice that you saw at the fire, 
anything that you wish to state? 

^1. I don't know that there is. I should say that at the time that 
building fell down, or about that time, Capt. Damrell was in that vicinity. 
I heard him make a remark to Capt. Green which was a very good 
remark, viz. : to do all we could to keep the fire back until he could re- 
lieA'c some engines from Washington street, and as fast as he could 
relieve them, he would send them to him. I noticed that in particular, 
and saw that in an hour the ditfereut streams in that vicinity were as 
two would be to twenty. 

Q. It improved ? 



221 

A. Oh, certainly. 

Q. How was the Chief at that time ? Did he seem to be in possession 
of his faculties? 

A. He certainly did, sir. I saw him almost every hour. 

Q. (By Mr. Fhilbrick.) In the case of any other explosion, did you 
see any benefit resulting? 

A. I think there was a benefit resulting from the explosion at the 
corner of Congress and Lindall streets. It was a granite building. :i 

Q. Did you know of any powder being put into the New England 
Life office, at the corner of Congress and State street,that long buildino- — 
any powder which did not burn ? 

A. No, sir. I saAv them carrying powder in there after daylight. There 
was some powder on the sidewalk, and they set some of it in the door- 
way of that building, and covered it over with a rubber blanket — only 
for storage. I saw no parties attempting to touch it off after it was put 
there. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) Did you notice any want of water that night? 

A. I did not see any, because I was not around the steam engines 
close enough to see their gauges. That I suppose would be the only 
place to test it. I did not go near to any steam engine. There was not 
a sufficient supply for fire purposes. My impression is that there is not 
anywhere. 

Q. How long have you been connected with the Fire Department ? 

A. I was attached to the Fire Department as a volunteer, from the 
time I was fourteen years old, twenty-three years ago. 

I would say in regard to water, that the reason I spoke that way was, 
that I know when the water was being introduced into Roxbury, we 
wanted the Lowry hydrants to give us a better supply of water, and 
also larger pipes than we had. 

Q. {By Mr. Cobb.) You got them? 

A. We got them through your instrumentality; and I have made the 
remark that we were better protected in Roxbury where the Cochituate 
ran than anywhere in the old city of Boston. It is so in New York. 
They have the same trouble that we have here. I heard a report last 
week in regard to this fire, from the New York engineers, and thev said, 
" We want a new supply of water." And thej^ have voted, and are now 
laying the large pipes, and the report is that the water is not to be 
tapped until it reaches below Chambers street. They are to have an in- 
dependent supply for the whole lower part of the city. 

Q. AVhat have you to say about the conduct of the firemen ? 

A. The firemen fought the fire well. I saw them take doors and hold 
them up in front of them to keep the heat off, and play round the doors. 
I never saw them fight better. When the buildings were safe for them 
to be on the I'oofs, they went up on the roofs and stayed there. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) What, in your opinion as an expert, would have 
been the difference if they had had a full supply of water, and the Lowry 
hydrants ? 

A. I was not there in the beginning. 

Q. Have you any opinion about it? 

A. I could only give a general opinion, that if they had had a better 



222 

supply of wsiter, they would have been better able to fight the fire. I 
have not heard any one say but what they did liave water enough. This 
is onl}' general impression. I know that when I was in the City Govern- 
ment, Mr. Damrell repeatedly called for more water and larger pipes. 
One case was after the fire at East Boston, two years ago. He wanted 
larger pipes down through that district. He was crying out for w^ater 
all the time, and they did not give it to him. After the great fire, pipes 
were put there within a few months. 

Q. What is j^our opinion of the general management of this fire? 

A. So far as I saw it, I don't think it could have been better managed. 

Q. Do 3'ou think of anything that could have been done better if you 
had had the charge of it? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. How about the use of powder? Could not that have been better? 

A. No. I think those buildings that I saw blown up did good. I 
think the blowing up of the building on the corner of Congress and 
Water streets kept the fire from crossing to Simmons's Block for fifteen 
minutes, because the building was fiat. It was easier for the fire to 
cross in the air than it was for it to go to the ground. The water could 
reach it more readily. 

Q. Did you see any effect of the explosions on Washington street? 

A. I just heard the explosion at Currier & Trott's building, and I 
said if that buihiing comes down, it is the poorest thing that has been 
done this night. Then the Old South would have gone. There was 
space enough and a good wall to keep the fire back. 

Q. (By Mr. Piiilbrick.) Did j^ou see any effect of the explosion on 
Kilby street? 

A. No, sir, I did not. What I saw was on Congress and Lindall. 
There was one building that I saw blown. There was no fire near it. 
It was a building occupied by Vincent & Hutchins for insurance. I 
think it is tlie corner of Kilb}' and Lindall streets. That did some good. 
It blew out the two upper stories and threw the balance into the street, 
so that when the firemen had a better chance to play on it, they stopped it. 
I heard other explosions, farther down the street, that I did not see 
any effect from, excepting the breaking of the windows, etc. 

Q. (By Mr. Fiuth.) You said there was a call for water made in the 
City Council. Is it within j'our remembrance 'that a call was made by 
the Chief Engineer for this district that was burned ? 

A. In a general way ; I think his report for, sa}^ 1868 or 1869, calls 
for a larger supply of water and a larger supply of pipes, and recom- 
mended the Lowry hydrants to be placed all over the city. I mean the 
Chiefs Annual Report, which will speak for itself. So also in regard to 
the Mansard roofs. He spoke about them in his report ; and he also 
recommended a steam fire-engine for Atlantic avenue, in his report for 
1871. 

With what experience I have had in the City Government, I know 
that it has generally been hard work to get anything for the Fire De- 
partment that might seem like going outside or increasing the force. 
You can see the same thing illustrated in Dorchester, after it was 
annexed. Dorchester had six engines. It was a long time before it 
was decided whether they should keep them or not. I think if their 



223 



charter had been the same as others, Doi'chester would have had but 
three engines, but the}^ came in with six engines ; and from the 1st of 
April, they had to make up their appropriation, and there was a strong 
eftbrt made to take away two or three engines. 



DAVID CHAMBERLAIN, sivorn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) What is your position in the Citj^ Govern- 
ment? 

A. I am Inspector of Buildings for the City of Boston. 

Q. You had some consultations with the Chief Engineer on the night 
of the fire? 

A. Yes, sir, I had conversations with him. 

Q. What was your conversation ? 

A. My first conversation with him was to oflfer my services at any 
time or place that I could be of any service to him or to the department. 
He asked me then to take charge of a certain building and to prevent 
the fire from getting beyond it. 

Q. Where was the building? 

A. It was Beebe's building in Devonshire square, and all along that 
point. 

Q. Was the Chief Engineer in possession of his faculties at that time ? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Was he cool or otherwise? 

A. He was as cool as there was any need of. 

Q. Did you meet him at other times during the night? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Did you have an}' consultations with him as to the use of gun- 
powder ? 

A. Yes, sir, I met him, I should think, about eleven o'clock, — between 
eleven and twelve, I cannot tell the exact time. I met him on Federal 
street, and gave him the same profters that I had an hour before. He 
said, •'! want you to select some suitable locality in which the blowing 
up of buildings will have a tendency to stop the spread of the fire." I 
told him that was a very difficult operation for me to perform, but 1 
would ^ee what could be done. That was about the only conversation 
I had. He said if I would do it, he would take it as a great favor. I 
had but little faith in blowing up. I was Engineer in the Fire Depart- 
ment for seventeen years. The matter was always talked over. I had 
but little faith in it from previous information I had, and when I heard 
from the Chicago fire that was strengthened. I did not feel faith enough 
in the operation to select any place for blowing up. 

Q. Did you do anything about blowing up ? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. Did the Chief tell you at that time whether he had sent for powder? 

A. He did, and said that it was ready at the end of Central wharf; 
that was between eleven and twelve o'clock. I should think it was 
nearer eleven than it was twelve. 

Q. How long have you been Inspector of Buildings? 

A. A little over a 3'ear. 



224 

Q. State what, in your judgment, were the causes of this fire being so 
uncontrollable? 

A. Mansard roofs on high buildings. 

Q. Where did the fire generally catch? 

A. On the Mansard roofs generally. 

Q. In what streets did you notice that? 

A. On Summer street and Kingston street principally. 

Q. Was there any deficiency of water that night? 

A. Not at first. Afterwards, I saw engines playing streams of water 
that were of no use whatever, because they had not water enough. 

Q. Where did you see that? 

A. On Washington street, Water street, and Milk street. 

Q. Was there any deficiency of fuel that night? 

A. I think there was, because I saw them staving up and burning dry- 
goods boxes. 

Q. Did 3'ou see any of the steamers that were idle for want of fuel, or 
did they supply the place of fuel with boxes ? 

A. They were all at work. I saw steamers that belonged out of town 
idle. I could not tell the cause of that. I saw Boston steamers waiting 
for want of fuel. 

Q. How did the department work that night? 

A. Admirably ! Never better. 

Q. As an expert, what is your opinion of the management of the 
fire? 

A. I think it was as good as could be, under the circumstances. 

Q. If there were to be such a fire again, and you were Chief Engineer, 
is there anything you would do that was not done ? 

^1. I don't know that there was anything. I could not place my hand 
on a thing that the Chief Engineer fell short in. He seemed to be col- 
lected. 

Q. Considering the extent of the fire, the character of the buildings, 
and all the circumstances, do j^ou consider that his management of the 
fire was successful? 

A. Yes, sir ; I do. I think he did as well as could be done under the 
circumstances. 

Q. Do you know anything about the supply of water for this distiict, 
where the fire originated ? 

A. When I was in the Board, there was always a complaint that there 
was a deficiency in that district. We always felt that there might be 
trouble there in the Board of Engineers I resigned a j^ear ago to take 
this office which I now hold. I did some thirty j-ears' dut}^ as fireman, 
seventeen years of which was in the Board of Engineers. 

Q. You had always feared a conflagration in this district? 

A. Yes, sir ; I feared that we should have trouble among those high 
buildings. 

Q. Was it a matter of frequent discussion? 

A. It was spoken of very often. 

Q. Was it brought before the Committee on the Fire Department? 

A. Not that I know of. 

q. Why not? 



225 

A. That belonged to the Chief Engineer. We knew that he had talked 
about it to the proper parties, or represented that he had done so. 

Q. It was not your business to know what the Chief Engineer said to 
Fire Committees? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. Did not j'our Board, seeing the necessity which existed, pass a 
vote directing or requesting him? 

A. I have no recollection of that. We often did pass votes requesting 
the Chief to ask the Water Board to put a Lowr}^ hj-drant here or there, 
but I don't recollect anything in that particular locality. 

Q. What do you think about the desirability of having Lowry hy- 
drants ? 

A. It is very important. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) What do you think would have been the 
result if they had had them in this district? 

A. I could not say, because the magnitude of the fire might have made 
it amount to nothing. 

Q. I mean before the fire got so large? 

^1. It spread very rapidly. They had water enough at the first of it, 
two reservoirs and four or five hydrants. The water spread from these 
Mansard roofs so badly that the spray did not amount to anything. It 
went off in vapor before it reached the tops of those high buildings. 

Q. Are there any suggestions you would like to make, except about 
Mansard roofs ? 

A. I think it is the duty of the City Government to get self-propellers 
for the Fire Department as quick as possible, and not,depend upon horses 
that may be sick again. I also think it is their duty to enlarge their 
water-pipes. There are three grand points : they ought to stop Mansard 
roofs on high buildings, they ought to enlarge their water-pipes, they 
ought to procure self-propellers. There is where the fire had the advan- 
tage of us. 

Q. Is there more legislation needed as to party walls? 

A. I think there is, and that they should be carried up above the 
houses two or four feet. It has been suggested by builders. Six inches, 
as tiie law now reads, is some help, but where there is a large body of 
fire rolling up above the roof, it is but very little help. 

Q. Have you seen the act now before the Legislature ? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Do you think it is adequate ? # 

A. It is a great help. I don't know that I can suggest anything more 
than there is in that act. 

Q. Does that make any provision about elevators? 

A. I think that is struck out. They made a recommendation that ele- 
vators should be encased in brick walls. That was stricken out of the 
bill. I think it would be an excellent idea to have such a provision incor- 
porated in it. 

Q. Are there any such things as self-propellers? 

^4. Yes, sir. We sent to Manchester and got one. That has been 
making for us some time. They have been in use in New York for from 
five to eight years, to my knowledge. 
15 



221) 

Q. Suppose these Mansard roofs Avere made of different materials and 
did not display any wood on the outside? 

A. That would have been very much in favor of tlie Fire Department's 
putting out the fire. As it was, all those mouldings and cornices were 
of wood. 

Q. That is not a necessary arrangement for the roof at all ? 
A. No, sir ; it is only a matter of cheapness. 
Q. Your objection was only to wood Mansard roofs? 
A. Yes, sir. Mansard roofs as they are constructed throughout that 
district and in Boston to-day. There may be a few exceptions. I don't 
know of any exception but that upon the Post Office. 

Q. (B}' Mr. PiiiLBRiCK.) There are some that show a good deal of 
finish? 

A. Yes, sir ; I have given permits in which I stated that all outside 
of tl»e building should be of non-combustible material — galvanized iron 
and copper. 

Q. Might they not add to this act the power to compel that? 
A. Yes, sir. I had no power. I simpl}^ stipulated it because I thought 
I would bring them to it. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) With your knowledge of the possible danger to 
the city, does it not seem that some preparation should be made for such 
an eraergenc}' as this ? 

A. It seems so. I thought so a year ago, when I appealed to the Leg- 
islature to make a law to that effect. 

Q. (B}' Mr. Firth.) I mean as against fire — something besides 
water ? 

A. There ought to be some method by which fire could be stopped. 
Explosives that will level a building would be the desirable thing to have 
in the hands of proper parties. Since this fire, I have had instructions 
to level all dangerous walls in the district. At first I thought I would 
use some powder, but I was a little afraid of it, and a friend suggested 
that he had a method by which he could reduce buildings without any 
danger. He intimated that it was dualin or glj^cerine. He tried it on 
two buildings, and with two eflbrts on each, he levelled them to the 
ground, without endangering anybody, or doing anybody any damage. 
One was a pretty strong building. The material of the building was 
damaged, and it was of no value. It was the triangular building, with a 
circular front, at the corner of High and Summer streets. He tried, 
and threw it level with the ground at the second trial. The charge was 
placed right up against the building. 

The explosive substance was in charges ten inches long, and as large 
as my wrist. He put a bushel of sand over the charge and ran a train 
to it by magnetic telegraph, and down the building, came. The other 
building was the Episcopal Church on Purchase street. We tried the 
front of that and brought it down in two charges. At first it did not 
operate very well. The second trial brought the whole front. down 
splendidly. 

(^. Did it throw any I'ubbisli to do any damage in any other direction? 
A. A small stone migiit have peeled otf here and there, but the whole 
thing seemed to drop in its tracks plump down. 



227 

Q. From what 3'ou have seen of this explosive do you think tliat 
it could be applied successfully in case of fire to level a building? 

A. Unquestionably, because it does not cany fire with it as powder 
does. 

Q. Is it not more sudden in its action ? 

A. There is nothing more sudden than powder. This substance men 
can carry in their arms right around the burning territory with safet}'. 

Q. How would you use it in a building? 

A. Pile it up against the principal foundation and apply the magnetic 
wire to it. It only wants to be covered with a bushel or a bushel and a half 
of sand, whereas in order to use powder that has got to be tamped. A 
barrel of powder has got to be held in some way in order to give force to 
the explosion, or else it will operate as I saw it do at that fire, — simply 
blow the windows out. I saw dualin cut a hole right through granite, — a 
hole seven or eight inches wide and twelve inches high, right through the 
solid granite, and it didn't disturb the next charge. It brought the build- 
ing down. 

Q. As an expert, don't you consider that there is great danger arising 
from the burning of illuminating gas at a fire and the impossibility of 
shutting the gas off? 

A. Yes, sir, that was the great trouble, and one great cause of the 
confiagration spreading so fast during that night. Immense quantities 
of gas escaped and added to the heat. 

Q. What would you recommend to prevent that? 

A. I think that there should be gates at the corner of everj' principal 
street, 

Q. Why not at every branch and every forking of the pipes? 

A. 1 would recommend it at every branch of the gas-mains. 

Q. Every time they fork or branch out in any way? 

A. I don't know why not. It is important to isolate any particular 
portion of the city from the gas system. As I understand it, there was 
no opportunity to isolate in this case on that whole district. My recom- 
mendation is that ever}' square should be so fixed that it can be isolated. 
We should not have had that disaster Sunday night if it had not been 
for the escape of gas. 

Q. Did you go to the fire at Rand & Avery's Thursday night ? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Why was it that fire was subdued so quickly? 

A. They had ample opportunity to play from the street and plenty of 
water. It w-as an eas^' lire to manage. 

Q. Were not the brick walls calculated to give the firemen more confi- 
dence than stone walls would ? 

A. Not particularly that. The fire was early discovered, and they had 
an opportunity to get apparatus there and put it out. The fire was only 
in two stories. At the Summer-street fire, it was from cellar to attic all 
alive and as hot as blazes. 

Q. What is the advantage of the Lcfwry hydrant ? 

A. The Lowry h^'drant is equivalent to a reservoir. We have a great 
many reservoirs in Boston. A Lowr}' hydrant will allow three engines to 
come to it. I suppose it would not be worth much without a large pipe. 
You want a pipe of at least eight inches. It ought to be even larger 
than that. 



228 



OLIN D. PAINE, sivorn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Where did you live before the fire? 

A. No. 17 Kingston street, at the time of the fire. 

Q. Did you see the fire before the alarm was given ? 

A. I did. 

Q. At what time was this? 

A. Well, sir, I am unable to state exactly. I should be willing to 
state, however, between fifteen and twenty minutes past seven. 

Q. Where was the light? What part of the building? 

A. Well, sir, the first I saw the light was reflected in a window of the 
third story of the building, in the elevator. This window opens right 
into the elevator of the building. 

Q. On the passage? 

A. Yes, sir. And at the same time, the light shone through the other 
windows on the same floor. 

Q. Was there any light below that stor}' ? 

A. Yes, sir. At the same time, there was a light in the basement win- 
dow, a little, small, narrow window, perhaps three or four feet long, and 
wide in proportion. It looked like a living furnace. That was right 
under the elevator, exactly where that lets down into the basement. I 
looked down from the window where I stood right into that. I saw the 
fire when it burst through the window into the passage that leads from 
Kingston street, in the rear of the building that was occupied by Teb- 
betts, Baldwin & Davis. 

Q. Did you give any alarm? 

A. I gave no alarm at all. 

Q. What did j^ou do? Did you go out to the fire? 

A. I was at the door a portion of the time, but I gave most of my at- 
tention to our aff'airs there, in the house. 

Q. How soon after you saw the light was the fire-alarm given ? 

A. I can't tell you ; I heard no alarm given. 

Q. Was there anything special that you noticed? 

A. Nothing special that I know of, except the very long time it took 
to get water on the fire. That was noticeable, and spoken of by all there. 

Q. You heard no alarm, and don't know how long after the alarm was 
given before the water was on ? 

A. No, sir ; but there were no people in the street when I looked out, 
except a few straggling persons. There was no crowd for several min- 
utes ; and it was a remarkably long time before anything like an engine or 
hose carriage appeared. 

Q. How long, should you suppose, after you saw the fii-e ? 

A. Before the hose carriage came? 

Q. Yes, sir. 

A. I should set it, at the least, as twenty minutes. An engine didn't 
arrive until considerable time after that. We had about all we could at- 
tend to, the fire broke out so suddenly. We had to attend to our own 
house, and we gave less attention to the details than we otheuwise 
would, perhaps. 

Q. Where were you when 3-ou first saw the fire? 



i 



22!) 



A. When I first saw the fire, I was looking from the second floor front 
window (that is, when I looked at the fire direct) of seventeen Kingston 
street, the house that I boarded in. That was directly opposite this pas- 
sage-way where the fire, I supposed at the time, and always have sup- 
posed, originated. 

Q. That is Mr. Pratt's house ? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Did yon use a clock or watch in judging of the time from when 
5^ou saw the fire, until when the hose-carriage came? 

A. No, sir ; that is mere supposition on m}^ part. 

Q. Was there any great crowd of people there before any carriage 
came? 

A. Yes, sir. Before I saw any carriage, the street was full. 

Q. What drew your attention first of all to the fire ? 

A. The first that drew ray attention was the reflection on the wall 
back of our house. That runs very much higlier than our house, and it 
flashed out in a second. I jumped from my chair (I was in the back of 
the house, on the second floor) and rushed through, the same as through 
this door, and looked out of the front window. Almost simultaneously 
with my looking out, it burst through the window. Then I looked 
down in the basement and it was on fire there. 

Q. Did it look as if it was hotter in the basement? 

A. It looked like a furnace ; and another gentleman who boarded in 
the house and myself remarked that it looked as if the whole furnace 
had bursted. At the same time, there was a draught through the eleva- 
tor, so we could hear the rushing and roaring of the fire like a steam en- 
gine. We supposed there was no way it could go down the elevator 
with such a draught as that. The conclusion we came to was, that it 
was going up instead of down. And I should say, the first point it 
burst through was the third-floor window. That was a pine wood ele- 
vator, sheathed with southern pine, very pitchy. 

Q. Were 5'ou familiar with that fact? 

A. Yes, sir ; I have noticed it. That it is what I called it myself. 

Q. You had noticed it before ? 

A. I had noticed that several times. I had noticed the color of the 
wood — a reddish wood, something of the color of sheepskin. It was 
inside of the house and running up perpendicularly with the walls in- 
side. 

I should be willing to stake my reputation that the fire started below 
the first floor, knowing the fact that there was such a draft in the eleva- 
tor. It could not possibly come down. That is a fact that one can't 
well get over. We noticed the fact of the draught there the first thing, 
because what called my attention to it more distinctly was hearing the 
sound and roaring of the fire in the elevator. 

Q. After the hose and engine came, did you notice an3'thing remarka- 
ble about the management of the fire ? 

A. No, sir ; I was attending to something else, trying to save the house 
we were in. It was on fire several times before twelve o'clock. 

Q. Do you think the fire got into the upper stories any other way than 
through the elevator? 

A. I saw no other Avay. 



230 

Q. You saw no fire aboA'e? 

A. I saw no fire except in the elevator before it burst out. It seemed 
to draw everything in that vicinity, and burst through all the windows, 
and in a very few minutes the whole top of the building was on fire, 3'ou 
may say, in no time. 

Q. How long? 

A. I should say five minutes. 

Q. You are confident there was no light there except at that one point? 

A. That was the only point that I saw any light. I don't know but 
there were others, because the light might have been so intense there that 
I did not see any others ; but it was very noticeable that that was the 
main point. 

FRANK WORDELL, sworn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) You live at Kingston street? 

A. No. 17 Kingston street. 

Q. What time did you see the fire? 

A. I should think it was about twenty minutes past seven ; somewhere 
in that neighborhood. 

Q. Where were you? 

A. At the time I heard of the fire, I was in the back part of tlie house, 
but I went through to the front part, to my room on the front side. By 
the time I got there, the fire was prett}"^ well over the back part of the 
house. It was in the elevator, in the basement and in the third floor, 
and it was breaking out through the windows in the third floor when I 
saw it. 

Q. Had the fire-alarm been given then ? 

A. I hadn't heard it. 

Q. Was anybody crying fire then ? 

A. Yes, sir ; some in the street. 

Q, Was there much alarm, much outcry? 

A. When I first saw the fire there was not. There was, a few minutes 
after. 

Q. Did you hear the fire-alarm at all that evening? 

A. No, sir, I did not hear it at all. 

Q. From the time you saw the fire, how long was it before any hose- 
carriage came? 

A. 1 didn't look at my watch. I should judge it was in the neighbor- 
hood of twenty minutes or half an hour. That is the nearest 1 could tell. 

Q. How soon did an engine come? 

A. That I could not tell anything about. I didn't see one, not at that 
time ; not until after I went out of the house. 

Q. What were you doing then? 

A. I was in tlie house. 

Q. After you saw the fire, did you go to the fire? 

A. 1 remained in the house to lielp around the house. We passed 
water on to the roof for I should think two hours. The house was fired 
once or twice on the roof. 

Q. Did you notice whether that hose carriage came fast or slow ? 

A. No, sir. 



231 



Q. Did yon liear the fire roaring in the elevator? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. How was that elevator lined ? 

A. That I don't know ; I never was in it. 



SAMUEL F. PRESCOTT, sworn. 

Q. (B}' Mr. EusSELL.) At the time of the fire, where were you when 
it In'oke out ? 

A. At twenty-five minutes past seven, I locked our store, which is on 
Winthrop square. 

Q. How soon did you notice the fire? 

A. In the course of perhaps two minutes after that. 

Q. Had any alarm been given ? 

A. I am not aware that there was an alarm given. 

Q. Where was the fire? in what part of the building? 

A. The fire, when I saw it, was in the south-east corner of the store 
of Tebbetts, Baldwin & Davis. I saw it by looking through the window, 
or perhaps the door which looks directly in front of their office ; and the 
fire was then burning through the partition which separated the elevator 
space from the main store. 

Q. In what story? 

A. The first story. 

Q. Was there any fire in the basement, or could not you see ? 

A. I saw none. 

Q. Did you hear the fire-alarm after that? 

^i. No, sir. 

Q. How long after you saw the fire did any apparatus arrive ? 

A. As near as I can recollect, I should think it was some fifteen min- 
utes. 

Q. What came then ? 

^1. A steamer hauled by hand through Winthrop square. 

Q. Was it going fast or slow? 

A. The men were walking. The}' were walking when they passed 
Winthrop square. They were walking, coming through Winthrop square 
into Otis street. 

Q. Do you know how soon they threw water on to the fire after they 
came? 

A. I will not be positive. My impression is it was some twenty min- 
utes from the time I saw the fire in the building before I knew of any 
water being put into the building. 

Q. Was that put on by this steamer or by hose? 

A. I am not aware. I did not stay at the place. I wish to say, im- 
mediately on seeing this engine, I went out from our store and took lioUl 
of the rope. By some exertion we succeeded in getting up a trot, and 
so passed through Otis street to the corner of Summer and Kingston 
streets. 

Q. You helped draw the engine? 

^1. I did, yes, sir. 

Q. And woke them up from a walk to a trot ? 



232 

A. Yes, sir ; all of us together. An effort was made, and we succeeded 
in oretting up the speed a little. 

Q. Did you notice anything else about the fire you wish to call our at- 
tention to? 

A. Nothing, to my knowledge. I would like to state how I came to 
notice the fire. Our store was the Beehe store — Houghton, Perkins, Wood 
& Company. Our custo)n was, to go out of door No. 1, and lock that 
door last. The porter and myself were in the store, and no one else. I 
was detained a little, and didn't go away so early as perhaps I would at 
some other times. I went out of this door, and left the porter to lock it. 
I stopped at door No. 2, — there are two doors in front of "Winthrop 
square, — and the thought occurred to me I would go round the block in- 
to Devonshire street, and let our porter pass this way and examine the 
doors on this side of the block, and onr elevator door there. When I got 
into Devonshire street, I saw what appeared to be a cloud, a thin, vapory 
cloud, passing towards the east quite rapidly ; and my first thought was 
" That cloud is running very fast ; " and I also thought, perhaps the 
moon is in that direction. A second thought showed to me the moon 
was not there. I then went along two-thirds of the way into Summer 
street, from this point, and I heard some halloing. By the way, the 
second look I gave to this, I saw little sparks, little fine fibres, that were 
going up with this smoke. My first impression was, it was from some 
other building further south than the rear of the Summer-street block. 
I hastened my pace, and came round into Summer street, and as I came 
round there I saw no fire on the front of the building, and I Avent to the 
rear, the south-west corner of the building on Kingston street. 

Q. You went round through Church Green ? 

A. No, sir ; into Devonshire street, directly in front of the Summer- 
street block ; and I came along to this corner, and, as I came along, I 
looked into the front of the store. I saw no fire whatever. 
I came round the corner of the block, and went to the rear, 
and there I saw the fire shining out of the rear of that block across 
Kingston street. There is a passage-way there. I looked into the store, 
and went up the steps (there is a door-way there which opens into their 
office, if I recollect rightly, with one window on Kingston street ; the 
office running quite across the floor, across that room). I went up those 
steps and looked into the window of the door (the curtain was left up), 
and saw the fire coming through this partition, burning into the store 
from tlie elevator ; and as far as I could see, the elevator space was com- 
pletely on fire. 

Q. You could not see it from the Summer-street side? 

A. I did not see it from tlie Summer-street side in any portion of 
the building. I would add : Then I left that point and came back to 
meet our porter in Summer street, and T instructed him to go for our own 
Engineer. He had a small bundle he was carrying home from the store. 
I told him we had better go into the store and light the gas, and leave 
his bundle there. We did so, and went into our store at one of the Otis- 
street entrances. He immediately started for our Engineer, and got 
back to the store, perhaps ] might say, in twenty minutes. I also sent 
for Mr. Houghton ; i)retty soon he came. The Engineer came and got 
up steam in our own boilers. During the time that the porter had gone 



233 

for the Engineer, I went out and found Chief Engineer Dannell. I asked 
him for a line of hose tliat would reach up our elevator on to our building, 
and came with him to the elevator door in the rear corner of the block. 
He said he would have a line of hose there. I said I would have the 
elevator to take the hose on to the building as soon as the hose was 

ready. 

Q. Did he furnish it? 

^4. He did, yes, sir ; and I should judge as soon as his hose was ready, 
our elevator was ready to start. I started the elevator myself, and 
brought it up to the first floor, and the hose was attached, and the eleva- 
tor carried it np into our attic. I did not go up into our attic ; but, as I 
learned afterwards, they went up into our attic, and from our rear win- 
dow threw water on to the building which is twelve feet from the rear 
of the block ; a building owned by Faxon Bros., I think, fronting on 
Summer street. 

Q. Could they throw on to the roof of that building? 

A. Very easily. 

Q. And did so? 

A. I think they did, without any doubt. 

Q. Was that a flat roof — that part of it? 

A. Our roof, or Faxon's ? 

Q. F'axon's. 

A. The top was flat, but it had this Mansard roof. It extended around 
three sides at least. 

Q. Could not the water which they then had have passed over the Man- 
sard front on the Summer-street side? 

A. No, sir ; it is too low for that. 

Q. What became of it? 

A. It must have rested against the side and on the flat roof of the 
building. It is possible that it may have been thrown on to Summer 
street, but I don't think it was. 

Q. Where would it naturally run off, like rain-water? 

A. From the roof of the building on the Otis-street side ; also into 
this twelve-fcjot space in the rear of their store and ours. 

Q. Was there any way to get hose on to the top of the Faxon build- 
ing? 

A. There might have been hose carried from the front of the Faxon 
building, but I think nothing f)-om the side. There was a flight of 
stairs leading from Otis street up one flight on to the second floor in 
Faxon's building. Then you had to pass through the hall towards the 
front of the building, and then you would get on to the stairs that led 
from Summer street to the upper portion of the building. 

Q. Was the hose saved afterwards? Was it taken down? 

A. The hose came down. I think I heard it come down ; but I am 
not positive in regard to that. 

Q. From that position, could they protect the building on the corner 
of Otis and Summer streets on the other side of Otis street at all? On 
the west side of Otis, corner of Summer? 

A. From our attic this building could have been protected, in a meas- 
ure ; but tlien — as I understood one of our men who was attached to the 
hose belonging, I think, to the fire brigade — the hose was placed out 



234 

of the rear window ; and in that case. l)ut little water could have passed 
across Otis street to protect this building. 

Q. Were there any windows in your attic on Otis street? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. If they had directed it out of there, could the}' not have protected 
the corner building on Otis and Summer? 

A. No, sir. It is too far. I think Faxon's building must have been 
110 feet long; perhaps, 120; then there was this 12 feet, and then 
our building, which is 164 feet. After placing this line of liose up our 
elevator, I went again for Chief Engineer Damrell, and I brought him to 
the store a second time through this rear passage of ours to the eleva- 
tor, to the second elevator, which is in the further corner, the south-east 
corner of our store, towards Devonshire street. The Chief told me he 
was unable to give me a line of hose, not having enough to cover the 
territory, so much fire was raging, but as soon as he could give me a 
line of hose, he would do so. 

Q. Did you see any hose playing on the building on the corner of 
Summer and Otis streets from any roof opposite the spot where the fire 
took place? 

A. No, sir, I could not say I did. You should not place too much 
weight upon my testimony in regard to that, because I was interested in 
our own store so much. I was in and out of our store as occasion 
called. 

Q. It might have been played there and j-ou not noticed it? 

A. Yes, sir ; but I can say it was very hot indeed. I passed from our 
store through into Summer street. I perhaps passed there half-a-dozen 
times during an hour ; perhaps less, three-quarters of an liour. Time of 
course flew \Q\'y lapidly. There was a great deal to be done, and the 
last time I was through there, I think it was hardly possible for a man 
to stand there and direct a hose. 

Q. How did the Chief appear? 
. A. He appeared very calm indeed. 

Q. Self-possessed? 

-.1. Very much so. The second elevator-door that I speak of was 
controlled by A. T. Stewart «fe Co. They used it for the hoisting of 
goods in and out of their lofts. 

Q. That opened on Devonshire street? 

A. The second elevator opens on the passage-way which leads from 
Devonshire street. We had no key to that door. I found a fireman who 
had an axe, and I asked him to remain there until I could see the Chief 
Engineer and get this hose, as I wished to have him ready when the 
Engineer gave his consent to break in the door and run in the hose. 
After the fire-brigade came and took possession of our store there was a 
line of hose brought in intending to carry it up the stairway to the top 
of our building, but the water came before we got it across the store, 
and they turned the stream into one of the oflflces in the rear of the build- 
ing and directed it through the window on to this burning building in the 
rear, — Faxon's building, — the one east, fronting on Summer street. 

Q. How far up did they get that hose? 

A. Only the first floor. There Avas a large body of water. If I 



235 



recollect right there was no nozzle to the hose. It was a hose that the 
water came through, I think, perhaps a three-inch hose. 

Q. Did the Plre Department appear to be doing everything that could 
be done ? 

A. So far as I saw, the firemen were doing everytliing that could pos- 
sibly be done. I thinlv I heard the crash of the first building ; that is, 
the building occupied by Tebbetts, Baldwin & Davis. I am very sure I 
heard the crasli of that building, in about as near as I can judge tliirty 
minutes after the time I saw the fire in the building. The la?;t time I 
went in or came out of our building was perhaps twenty-five minutes past 
nine. At that time, I am very sure it was not safe for any person to 
go in. I was the last person, I think, to go in. 

Q. Did 3'ou feel any serious alarm the first ten minutes after you saw 
the fire ? 

A. Yes, sir, I felt very much alarmed in regard to our own building, 
in consequence of there not being any water put on to the fire. 

Q. From what you saw, do you think the fire might have been con- 
fined to the basement, if there had been no elevator there? 

A. If there had been no aperture througli the floor, and no hatch-way, 
and the fire had been discovered, I have no doubt it could have been 
confined to the lower, or second floor. 

Q. Is it usual in buildings of that class, such as you and your neigh- 
bors occupied, to have those elevator passages open without any hatches? 

A. Yes, sir. I am very positive that Mr. Beebe had hatches made for 
his building, but I am very positive we didn't use any ourselves ; that 
those hatclies were taken away before we occupied his store, and 
stored in tlie loft. 

Q. Why were they taken away? 

A. I should judge, from tlie inconvenience of opening them and shut- 
ting them morning and night. 

Q. Tliey were on hinges ? 

A. I think they were. 

Q. .You have never heard of self-opening hatches ? 

A. I have heard of them since the fire. I have never seen any. 

Q. Have you ever heard of an}'^ being used in Boston ? 

A. One of tlie firm of Wellington Brothers & Co. informed me, the 
other morning, that they had those hatches at tlieir store, and gave me 
an invitation to come in and see tliem ; but I have been so busy since 
that time I have not had an opportunity to do so. 

MARY F. COOK, sioorju 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Where did you live at the time of the fire? ' 

A. No. 27 Kingston street ; I live there now. 

Q. What time did you see the fire? 

A. I should think it was about quarter past seven — from there to 
twenty minutes. I could not be certain. 

Q. What called your attention to it? 

A. Halloing and screaming. 

Q. Was there any fire-alarm given then? 

A. No, sir. 



236 

Q. Where was the fire then? in what part of the hniUling? 

A. When I saw it, I saw it first at the bottom, and I loolccd np and 
the blaze was from the bottom to the top. 

Q. Do yon know wheie the elevator was there? 

A. No, sir ; I don't. I ran into the house and reported, and my hus- 
band came out. 

Q. Did you hear the fire-alarm that night? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. How soon after you saw the fire ? 

A. I should think it was five minutes, fully, before there was an alarm 
given. 

Q. How soon after the fire did you see an}^ engines or hose come to 
the fire? 

^1. It was fifteen minutes ; and the first thing I saw then was a hose 
carriage. 

Q. After the fire-alarm ? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Did 3^ou look at any watch or clock ? 

A. No, sir ; I didn't, but it is what I should judge. 

Q. Did 3'ou see any engine after that? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. How soon after the hose carriage ? 

A. I should think about from three to five minutes after I saw the 
hose carriage. 

Q. Was there anything else about the fire that you want to bring to 
our notice ? 

A. We have a girl in the house that I think knows as much about it 
as anybody. She came from Charlestown with a bundle of clothes — 
some that she had got to wash — and she says when she passed by the 
building it was perfectly dark. She saj'S all she did was to go up stairs, 
two flights, and take her clothes up ; and she went out on the street 
again and saw tlie blaze ; and she said that is all she was detained — 
just long enough to carry up her clothes. 

Q. What is her name? 

A. Althene Parker. 

ALFRED D. NASON, sworn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Where were you on the night of the fire? 

A. I was in New York ; having been connected with the house of 
A. K. Young & Co. between three or four 3'^ears — nearly four years. 

Q. Were you a partner? 

A. No, sir. I have been since three years ago the head confidential 
man, and manufacturing manager of the concern. Last year I had an 
interest in the business, but not as a general partner. This year I was 
on a salary, 

Q. What was their condition, financia.lly, at the time of the fire? 

A. Their business at the time of the fire was more prosperous, in a 
financial point of view, than it has ever been before since I have been 
connected with them, and I think since they went into business, some 
ten years ago. 



237 

Q. Were they in such a condition as to be great losers by the fire? 

A. Yes, sir ; they are very great losers. 

Q. Do you know what the stock was worth? 

A. The amount of their insurance, I believe, was $17,600. 

Q. What was their business worth in a year, — net profits? 

A. I had an interest last year and their profits were upward of $30,- 
000; and this year I will guarantee that our profits from Jan'y 1st to 
the lime of the fire were over $40,000 net, above the losses we had met 
with. 

ASINETTE COOK, sworn. 

Q. (By INIr. Russk(,l.~i You live at 27 Kingston street? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. What time did you see the fire? 

A. I should judge it was from fifteen to twenty minutes past seven. 

Q. Where was it? in what part of the building? 

A. The flame was bursting out from the third, fourth and fifth stor is . 
I think it was five stories high. 

Q. Could you see the basement? 

A. I could see the basement, and it seemed to be light from the base- 
ment up. 

Q. How soon did you hear the fire-alarm after you saw the fire? 

A. It seems to me as though it was ten or fifteen minutes, but at such 
a time as that, the time seemed very long. 

Q. How soon after 3'ou heard the fire-alarm, did you see the first 
hose carriage come? 

A. I guess it was fifteen minutes before they were there. 

Q. After you heard the alarm ? 

A. After the fire-alarm was given, I should think it was full fifteen 
minutes. 

Q. How soon after that did any engine come? 

A. They were there immediately after. 

Q. You did not use a watch or clock in fixing any of these times? 

A. No, sir. 

MARY A. WARDWELL, sworn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Where were you at the time of the fire ? 
A. At Mrs. Cook's, 27 Kingston street. 
Q. What time did you first hear of the fire ? 
A. As soon as the cry was given. 
Q. What time was that? 
A. About quarter past seven, I think. 
Q. How soon after that did you hear the alarm? 
A. I should think about five minutes. 

Q. How soon after that did you see the first hose carriage? 
A. I could not tell, I should think it was about twenty minutes be- 
fore the engine got ready to play on the fire. 
Q. After the fire-alarm ? 
A. After I first heard the cry of fire. 



238 

Q. The engine began to \)\ay in twenty minutes after you first liearcl 
the cry? 

A. Yes, sir, we furnished them with wood, to get up steam. 

Q. You furnished them with wood. 

A. Mr. Cook did. 

Q. Is Mr. Cook here? 

A. Y'es, sir. 

Q. Where was the fire? 

A. It was in the three first stories. The three first stories were burn- 
ing, and the window in the third stor}^ the flames -seemed to burst out of 
the most. I stayed three or four minutes on the sidewalk and looked at it. 

Q. Did you see any fire in the basement? 

A. No, sir, it seemed to be up in the upper stories. There seemed to 
be the most fire there ; the smoke and blaze were pouring out very rapidly. 



WM. W. COOK, sivorn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) You were at 27 Kingston street? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. When did you first hear of the fire? 

A. I could not exactly state the time. I was sitting in the lower 
entry. We have a great many boarders at our house, and every Satur- 
day night I sit in the entry to take the money, and while there I heard 
the boys in the street crying tire, and as soon as I could put my books 
and papers away, I jumped up and ran out. 

Q. What did you see ? 

A. I ran up Kingston street and looked up the alley-way, and the place 
where I saw it was going up from the cellar to tlie garret. There was not 
much flame coming from the lower part, but I could see from the bright 
light that there was a flre there. It was going up through the elevator, 
and the place when I saw it Avas ten or fifteen feet in ]engtli,in tl)e upper 
part of the elevator, coming out from the elevator windows, streaming 
across the alley. I should judge it was about three minutes after I heard 
the cry of fire. 

Q. What time did j-ou say it was? 

A. I could not exaetl}^ state. I should judge it was somewheres from 
fifteen to twenty minutes past seven. I did not notice the clock ; in 
fact, I was so excited at the time I'ran out that I didn't take notice of 
the clock. 

Q. Did you hear the fire-alarm? 

A. I heard an alarm given. 1 should judge it was from four to five 
minutes, at least, after I heard the first cry of fire ; four or five minutes, 
I should think it was. It might have been five minutes ; I could not ex- 
actly state, because I didn't note the time. 

Q. Did you see any fire apparatus, — hose-carriage or engine? 

A. The first thing I saw in the way of fire apparatus was a hose-car- 
riage drawn b}' men, coming up Kingston street from Beach ; coming this 
way. 

Q. Was it coming last, or slow? 

A. Very fast ; as fast as the men could run. 



239 

Q. How long was that after _you heard the fire-alarm? 

xi. I should judo-e it was very near ten minutes. 

Q. How soon after that did you see an engine? 

A. I should judge the first engine I saw stop at the fire was about 
fifteen minutes, I should think. 

Q. After you heard the alarm ? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Not fifteen minutes after the first cry of fire ? You said they were 
some waj-s apart? 

Jl. Tlie alarm was five minutes after I heard the first cry of fire. I 
heard the alarm in fiA'e minutes ; in ten minutes after the alarm, the 
hose-carriage, and about five minutes after that the engine stopped there. 
They got out of coal while they were there, and they came into the house 
and got kindlings. 

Q. Was that before they got up steam ? 

A. No, sir ; that was as much as twenty minutes after they got up 
steam, and were playing. 

Q. Do you know what engine that was ? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. You say they got out of coal twenty minutes after they got going? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Do you know they were out of coal ? 

A. The fireman came to the door and asked me if I had any kindling, 
or anything in the house he could burn. I told him yes, and he came in 
and got a basket and box full and carried them out and brought the 
basket and box back. 

Q. Did you see any supply of coal come to them, — any coal cart? 

A. No, sir ; I did not see it when it came, but they had it there shortly 
afterwards, because I went out and asked them if they wanted any more, 
and they said their supply had come. 

Q. Did their playing cease? 

A. No, sir ; the stream kept up right steady all the time. They had 
borrowed from other parties, they told me. 

Q. How many engines were there when they borrowed? 

A. I only saw this one. I was in the house and there might have 
been a dozen others in other directions. 

Q. Which way did that engine come into the street? 

A. I think she came from Beach street, up. 

Q. Where did she locale to play? 

A. At the hydrant just below my house. 

Q. Corner of Bedford and Kingston? 

A. Yes, sir. 

GEO. W. ARMSTRONG, simrn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Tell us all you know about the fire. 

A. I saw the fire from my house at about a quarter past seven, and 
went direct to Avhere the fire was. I went up on to the steps of a build- 
ing just this side of where the fire was, with my wife, and staj'ed there 
from ten to twenty minutes before there was any water put on to the 
fire, and then the streams did not reach the third story. 

Q. On what corner? 



240 



A. Right in that doorway there. 

Q. Did you bear any fire-ah\riii? 

^1. No, sir ; because, probably, my mind was on the fire ; there was 
so much yelling in the streets. 

Q. Was it on Kingston street? 

A. The building where I stood was about No. 25 Kingston street. 

Q. How long were you tliere before you saw water put on to the fire? 

A. From ten to twenty minutes. 

Q. You had no watch to see which? 

A. I didn't look at my watch. I was surprised that there was no 
water put on to it ; and when it was put on, it did not reach the third 
story. 

Q. When you first got there what was the condition of the fire? 

A. The whole Mansard roof — all but the corner — was in a blaze, 
coming up through the roof. It didn't come down and take the next 
stor}^ but skipped down a story and came out of the third stoiy. 

Q. When the engines and hose carriage came, did they come fast or 
slow? 

A. They didn't come fast. There was a steam engine drawn b)' men 
who seemed to be completely exhausted when they came up, and stopped 
right at the corner of Kingston and Bedford streets. 

Q. Which wa}^ did they come ? 

A. From the south, — right up Albany street. 

Q. That was the first one you saw ? 

A. Yes, sir. It stopped at the corner of Kingston and Bedford 
streets. 

Q. Did you see any other engine or hose carriage arrive? 

A. Shortly after that, a hook and ladder came. They came as slow as 
the engine did. 

Q. Which way did they come? 

A. From the south. 

Q. Up Albany street. 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Did you see anything else that is worthy of notice ? 

A. Not at that corner. 

Q. Did you anywhere? 

A. Yes, sir. It surprised me to see no coal and wood where the en- 
gines were working. It seemed very strange to me. They were burn- 
ing boxes. 

Q. Where was that? 

A. On Summer street, at the head of Lincoln. 

Q. What time? 

A. I am ashamed to say I can't remember. It might have been eleven 
o'clock. 

Q. A good deal later than this? 

^1. Yes, sir. 

Q. Did the steamer stop for want of fuel ? 

^1. The}" stopped a good deal ; whether it was for want of fuel, I don't 
know ; they didn't work with the regularity the\- usuall}' do. There 
seemed to be a great deal of stopping. 

Q. Do you know whether it was from want of water? 



241 



A. No, sir ; I dou't. 

Q. Did the}' call for water ? 

A. I supposed that was for coal. There was lots of calling all the 
time, toot, toot toot ; two or three whistles, I could not say which. 

Q. Did you see any other engines burning boxes or wood? 

A. No, sir, I did not. 

Q. Was there an^'tliing else that you noticed ? 

A. No, I think liot. I live close by there, and my mind was on my 
own family. 

Q. Where was your house? 

A. 73 Beach, at the foot of Edinboro' street. 

Q. When they were burning wood, was the steam up ? 

A. They were not playing at the time I saw them throw the wood into 
the fire-box. It might have been they stopped from some other cause. 
There was a number of engines stood in the square, two or three, and 
they were all burning boxes. 

Q. In Church Green square? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Did you see an}' lack of fuel when the first engine came on the 
corner of Bedford street ? 

A. No, sir, I did not, 

Q. Did they get to work rapidly after they arrived? 

A. No, sir ; there seemed to be an omission of some kind. The people 
were so thick the firemen could not get in. The street was thronged be- 
fore the engines were there. I was there with my wife, and some one 
said, I had better get the lady out of there as soon as possible, and I 
did. 

Q. You say the firemen were troubled to get through the crowd ? 

A. At first they were, but they drove them back in a short time and 
kept them back. 

Q. Do I understand that you got on to those steps as early as quarter 
past seven? 

A. It might have been a few minutes later. I went there because 
there was nobody there to speak of. In ten minutes it was full. 

Q. Do you mean to say you were there at fifteen minutes past seven? 

A. It might have been a little later. 

Q. You saw the fire from your house? 

A. Yes, sir ; and supposed it was Garcelon's stable, on the corner of 
Bedford and Kingston streets. 

Q. What time was it when you got to the steps with your wife? 

A. It could not have been more tlian five minutes. 

Q. That would make it 7.20? 

A. Y^'es, sir. 

Q. You did not hear the fire-alarm ? 

A. No, sir ; I could not say it was struck at all. My mind was on the 
fire after I saw it, and I didn't notice any alarm. 

Q. The time when the steam engine arrived you didn't notice? 

A. No, sir, only that it was a long time. I spoke to my wife and 
said, " Why don't the engine come? " 

Q. Did vou notice about the fire in the other part of the building? 
16 



242 

^1. The position I occupied was such I could not see the back. I 
didn't go any nearer the fire than the steps ; all I saw was the roof and 
side towards Kingston street. 

Adjourned to Fridaj', at three P. M. 



243 



SIXTH DAY. 

Friday, Dec. 7, 1872. 
JOSEPH ^Y. KINSLEY, siooryi. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) What is ^your occupation? 

A. Secretary of Faneiiil Hall Insurance Company. 

Q. Wlien did you see or hear of the fire of Nov. 9th ? 

A. I happened to be in the engine house of No. 4 when the alarm 
struck. 

Q. Did you notice the time ? 

A. I should say it was twenty minutes past seven, or thereabouts. I 
can't say exactly. 

Q. What was done? 

A. When the alarm struck, Mr. Deering, the Engineer, threw the doors 
open of the engine house ; the hose carriage was standing in front of the 
engine, nearest the door. While the gong was striking, he unreeled the 
rope (the rope rolls up on a little reel under the handle) and the men in 
the house and others swung it out. I stepped up to the dial and followed 
the box down with my finger, and when I saw it was fifty-two, I told them 
where it was, and we started with the apparatus. 

Q. Started at once? 

^-1. Started the moment I said " Bedford and Lincoln." 

Q. How many had hold of the rope? 

A. I should say at the time the carriage started, there were at least a 
dozen. 

Q. Were j'-ou reinforced as 3"ou went on ? 

A. Every step we took, almost ; they came out of the City Hotel and 
out of the Quincy House, quite a number. We went out of Brattle square 
into Brattle street, and down through Dock square and through Exchange 
street, and were reinforced all the way. ]5eing somewhat familiar with 
the location, knowing that it was rather a bad locality, I took the head 
of the rope, and held it as long as I could. I kept on until they crossed 
Milk street on Devonshire street, right there by the new Post Office. I 
then stepped on to the sidewalk, and when I got on to the sidewalk, I 
could see the light of the tire. After the carriage got out of sound, so 
that I could hear, I heard the bell strike the last round of the fifty-two. 

Q. How long were you in going to the fire? 

A. I shouldn't think we could have been more than five minutes get- 
ting to that fire. I didn't go to the fire then ; when I saw the light, 
knowing what the rules were, owing to the horse disease, I knew that it 
was a fire that would I'equire the steamei's, and the moment I saw the 
light, I turned back an(l ran to the engine house, hoping to get the 
steamer started before the second alarm could even be sounded, being 
but a short distance. When I got back, it seemed that somebody else 
had seen the light of the fire, or tlie second alarm had been struck while 
I was getting back, for the rope was all arranged, and they were just 
starting the engine out of the house when I got back. 



244 

Q. How much of agiing had hold of the engine? 

A. I should say at least thirty were on tlie engine. There is always 
a crowd comes down to the engine house from Hanover .street, Brattle 
square, Brattle street, and Tremont Row, when an alarm strikes. I have 
been there frequently when the alarm struck. I then went with the en- 
gine, and the engine went straight to the hydrant on the corner of Kings- 
ton and Summer streets. The iire was lighted before starting, and when 
the steamer got to the corner of Summer and Kingston streets, the hose 
company had a hose line on, and were playing with a hydrant stream. 

Q. How long did it take the engine to get there? 

A. They went up about as fast as I could run. I should say it was 
not over lifteen minutes from the time the alarm first struck before the 
eno-ine was there. 1 allow for running up and back there a third time. 
I base mv running time up there on my walking time that I have allowed 
myself to go to the depot. I know I can walk from the Albany depot, 
which is beyond that considerabl}^, in less than ten minutes, and I know 
I can run faster than I can walk. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) Can you walk from Brattle Square to the 
Albany depot in less than ten minutes? 

A. No, sir. My office was on Congress street, and I calculated that 
the engine-house was about as far from my office on this side as the 
depot was from the fire on the other side, so that the distance would be 
practically the same. When we got there with the engine, the fire ap- 
peared to be coming out of the whole four stories on Kingston street. 
The fire hadn't got down but two stories on the Summer street entrance. 
The way I account for that, I am one of the committee of underwriters 
who have in charge the Protective Department, and 1 very frerjuently 
go into buildings, if I don't happen to see Engineer Green lound, and 
assist in covering up goods, which is our special province in that depart- 
ment. I went in with three other men, thinking they would stop the fire 
on the Kingston street side, and it wouldn't come down to the second 
floor. I went in with a view to seeing if we could spread some co^■ers 
there to advantage, but when I opened the door on the second floor, I 
saw in the rear, which would be along on the Kingston-street side, that 
the fire was then in the second story. There was also fire at the head 
of the second flight of stairs going to the third floor. Capt. Eegan and 
Capt. Jacobs (Regan I know, and Jacobs I think was there) were there 
with a stream trying to get up that flight. We didnt't take any cloths 
into the building because we have had a good many cloths burned up, 
and we dislike to take them into a room if the room is absolutely on fire. 
I waited there a few minutes to see whether there was a probabilit}- they 
would stop the fire on that fioor, to see whether it would be best to 
spread them on the floor below, and while there the ordeV came to come 
out of the building. 1 came down the stairs, and when I got within 
two or three steps of the bottom, I heard the coving fall. 

Q. Was it the corner coving? 

A. I should judge it was, I can't toll exactly. The door was right 
next to the wall of the building. J think that Capt. Regan and myself 
were the last two out of that building. I know we stood there and saw' 
it fall, and I thought that all we had got to do was to swing out by the 



245 



wall, and we would be safe. "We swung out and got on to the side and 
ran down. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) You speak of cloths — do tiiese come in a 
wagon ? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. AVas the wagon there? 

A. Yes, sir we had our wagon there. The man was there vvhen I 
got to the lire ; that came only from South street. 

Q. (By Mr. Fiktii.) How is that wagon drawn? 

A. We have two horses. 

Q. You call that the Insurance Company's wagon? 

A. We call it the Protective Department. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick ) Was the- wagon drawn that night by- 
horses ? 

A. Yes, sir. I think we used our horses through the whole epidemic. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) How soon did the engine begin to throw 
water on the fire? 

A. Well, they had a hydrant stream on the fire when tue engine got 
there ; they immediately disconnected the hose from the hydrant and 
attached the engine. 

Q. Was it ready to throw water? was steam up? 

A. They never wait for steam. 

Q. The}' throw the water through fehe engine? 

A. Yes, sir. Tliat is where a good many people are deceived by see- 
ing an engine throw water from a hydrant. They don't wait for steam ; 
they let the water run through the engine ; they get more force when 
the}^ have steam, but the}"^ can get the same force through the engine as 
they can directly from the hydrant. 

Q. IIovv soon did they get up steam ? 

A. I can't tell you. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) Was the fiic kindled when 3'ou started from 
the liouse? 

A. I didn't notice when it was kindled. I was at the head of the 
rope. I looked back several times, and could see that the smoke was 
coming out of the chimne}'. It might have been kindled before they 
started from the house. 

Q. You saw it on tlie way ? 

A. Yes, sir. I think I saw it first on Exchange street. I didn't 
think of it at first ; my first thought was to go back to the house and get 
the engine started. When we were in Excliange street, then I thought 
to be sure to have the fire lighted, and when I looked back, I saw the 
smoke coming out of the stack. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) How long did yon remain at the fire that 
night? 

A. I stayed until Sunda}- afternoon. 

Q. How long have you been connected with the insurance business? 

A. Since LSGG. 

Q. Have you been accustomed to attend fires? 

A. Yes, sir, I have had an opportunity for the last four years of 
attending almost all the fires this side of Beach street, taking in what 
we consider the business portion of the cit\'. 



246 

Q. How long have you been on that committee of the underwriters ? 

A. I think it is since 1869 ; 1868 or '9. 

Q. You saw the fire cross to Otis street, I suppose? 

A. It crossed to Summer and Kingston streets first. 

Q. Yes ; but were you there when it crossed to Otis street? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. I want to know if anything was left undone that could have been 
done to prevent tliat? 

A. No, sir, I don't know of anything that could have been done. 
There were as many streams in Otis street as they could get there, and 
also on the building which was in the rear of the Winthrop-square 
building, and also on the Summer-street front. 

Q. Do you think it was possible for the Boston Fire Department, 
with tlie means in their possession, to have prevented the fire from 
crossing to Otis street? 

A. No, sir. I would state that just as it was catching the French 
roof on tlie corner of Otis street, I started for Cambridge. I made up 
my mind that it was going to be a large fire. I am personally acquainted 
with the department there, and I started to get the Can^.bridge Depart- 
ment over. 

Q. Did you see any effort to stay the fire at the corner of Otis and 
Summer street? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Do you remember what it was? 

A. Tliere were steamers 9 and 11, hose 3, and I think hose 8 or 5, I 
am not sure which, right in this corner, as we call it, trying to keep the 
fire out of Winthrop square. I can't tell what force was on the other 
side of Summer street. I kept backing with the fire. I know that 
engine 4 was on the opposite corner, because I could see them, and 
their stream was on that side somewhere, I can't tell where, and No. 7 
was below on Summer street. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Did you get the Cambridge engines? 

A. Yes, sir, the Cambridge Department came in wheu the fire was 
burning the A. T. Stewart half, if 1 may describe it so, of Beebe's block ; 
before it got through that block, they got there. 

Q. (B}^ Mr. Firth.) Did you carry the message to them? 

A. I ran up to the Cambridge car olBce, intending to go to Cambridge 
myself, but I saw a young man whom I knew just going over, and I told 
him to go to East Cambridge and give the alarm, and tell them I sent 
for them. I had done that before, and also when I lived in Cambridge 
I have come to this side, and given the alarm for the Boston Depart- 
ment to go to Cambridge. 

Q. Was it your message which brought the Cambridge engines? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) They all came in, first and last? 

A. Yes, sir, they all got here. I think that the engines which 
answer the first alarm from the East Cambridge box came first. I 
sent over word that it was steamers we wanted more than anything else, 
feeling the necessity of force to throw the water high. 

Q. How did the firemen behave that night generally? 

A. I never saw them show more bravery or skill, as I thought. 



247 



Q. Does that apply to the whole time throughout the fire? 

A. Yes, sir, from the time the alarm struck, until I left there, Sunday 
afternoon, I didn't see anything that looked like a disposition to shirk 
their duty, or anything of that kind. 

Q. Now, looking back on the fire, do you think anything was left 
undone that ought to have been done ? 

A. I think there were some things done that ought not to have been 
done. 

Q. What were they ? 

A. The use of gunpowder. The reason I speak of that particularly is, 
that I saw cases, where, in iny judgment, buildings would not have been 
burned had it not been for the gunpowder, alluding particularly to my 
own office. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) Do you think it was gunpowder, or the unwise 
use of it? 

A. I think it was the unwise use of it. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) What number in Congress street was your 
office ? 

A. Number 32. 

Q. What did you see there? 

A. I saw, at the corner of Congress and Water streets, what I call a 
very fair job, so to speak. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) That is, it was well done, comparatively? 

A. Yes, sir, and I think if they hadn't attempted to blow up on the 
opposite corner, the fire might have been stopped. If tlie firemen could 
have stayed there, with the sort of square there was there, I think the 
fire might have been checked ; but as soon as that building was down, or, 
very soon after, they put the powder into this building, which of course 
drove the firemen laack, and it came up on that side without any inter- 
ruption. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) Did they fire these two buildings, one 
after another? 

A. No, sir ; the building on the corner was down before the other was 
blown up. After the first one was down, the fire came back of this 
building and they went to work blowing that up ; then they put powder 
into tlie second or third building from the corner, and for some reason 
or other, the powder didn't explode until the building burned down into 
the cellar where the powder was. In the mean time, the firemen were 
kept back under orders from Gen. Benham, Mr. Carpenter, and others 
there, and the fire went across the street into Farwell's printing office in 
Simmons' block. The reason that it got in there was because the 
powder didn't explode until the fire got down into the cellar, and they 
wouldn't allow the firemen to go bej'ond it. 

Q. How long did they have to wait for the fire to burn down to the 
powder? 

A. I think they may have waited half an hour ; then, when that 
powder did go oflT in that building, they put powder into the building on 
the corner of Lindall street, which was then on fire on three floors, and 
when that explosion took place (I don't know how long it was in there), 
it took every square of glass out of our building and filled the bank 
building full of burning embers. I claim that if they hadn't blown up 



248 

that building, our building, being a, low building, with a fire-proof roof, 
they could have stopped it there. Engineers Farrar and Smith were in 
our building, and I took them on top, and showed tliem that it was fire- 
proof, and that they could stay there and fight the fire, and that if a hot 
brick fell on the roof, they would be safe. I think there were five lines 
at one time ready to go into the building, but the explosions kei)t coming, 
and after awhile they filled our building full of fire ; of course, it couldn't 
help but burn. 

Q. (By Mr. Piiilbkick.) Supposing the buildings on the opposite 
corners of Congress and Water streets had been both exploded at once, 
wouldn't the result have been better? 

A. I think it would, as there was an alley-wa}^ between this building 
on the corner and the next one, so that it need not necessarily explode 
the building next to it. If the two buildings had been blown up 
together, I think there would have been no trouble stopping the fire in 
that direction. 

Q. Would it not have been much better to have exploded the powder 
before the fire reached the point, than to wait until that time? 

A. That is what I asked them to do in one case, on the corner of 
Lindall street, so that the building might be a mass of ruins, and thereby 
save our building ; but the powder being in that l)uilding, and not ex- 
ploding until the fire got down to the cellar, the firemen didn't dare to 
go into our building. 

Q. The fuse didn't burn? 

A. Somebody said thej' didn't take any fuse with them. I thinl< the 
failure to make a successful explosion there cost us that side of Congiess 
street. Why I say that is, because it was getting" pretty near iiome 
with me. 

Q. Did you see the Chief during that night? 

A. I saw Mr. Damrell as often as once an hour all night. 

Q. How did he appear? 

A. He appeared perfectly calm. I met him down on Purchase stioet, 
and he called vay attention to a light that we could see through some 
narrow buildings, and asked me to go down and asccilain what tlint was, 
telling me where he was going, so that I could oveitake him. 1 went 
down and ascertained that the fire was on a coal wluuf, and went 
back and told him that the water-boat had come up, and was t;:king 
care of that. He said, "It is all right ; I sent for the boat teon.t time 
ago, and lam glad to know they are on hand." He asked me if 1 saw 
Mr. Scott, the man who had charge of the boat, and I told him 1 did. 
He seemed to be satisfied with that; it w.as in compliance with his (ndcrs. 
It seemed to be working according to his orders. 'I inferred liom the 
fact that he had ordered the boat there, that he was fearful ol Scuth 
Boston, and when I told him that the fire was in some coal, and tin' l>oat 
was there, he seemed to feel relieved about it. That was before the fire 
had got to the north side of Franklin street. When the fire had got so 
far that the firemen had to back doAvn Franklin street into Devon.-liire, 
I went to him, and he told me to find Capt. Regan, who works for James 
Boyd & Son, the manufacturers of hose, and tell hini to g(^ to the store 
and take every foot of hose there was there and bring it into Devonshire 
street, to ascertain when it was there, and report as soon as possible. 



249 



There "svas another 3'oung man with me, and I told him, "You hear what 
Capt. Damrell says ; now we will go in different directions, and see if we 
can find INIr. Regan." I didn't succeed in finding him myself, but in my 
travels I met this young man, and he told me that he saw him. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Was there any trouble from lack of water 
that night? 

A. Yes, sir ; that was the g;reat trouble. 

Q. Where? 

A. Well, from the start, that is to saj^, after there had been half a 
dozen streams attached to the hydrants. The second and third alarms 
would bring in several hose companies, who run without steamers ; they 
are alwaj's anxious to get a stream of water on, and they would attach 
to the steamers, and undertake to get two streams, and they couldn't get 
sufficient water. When they had shut off one stream, then they would 
get one very good stream. I have noticed the same scarcity of water in 
that section before except where they could get at a reservoir such as 
there was at the foot of Franklin, on Federal. Tliey have always made 
what use they could of that, reservoir in case of a fire in that direction, 
on account of the h^drants being light. At the time of the great wool 
fire in that vicinity, they hnd three streams from that reservoir, because 
they could get so much better suppl}- of water from that than from the 
hydrants. 

Q. (B}' Mr. Philbrick.) When you arrived, were you surprised at 
the extent of the fire? 

A. Yes, sir ; J couldn't account for it. Ordinarily, I shouldn't have 
expected to see any more fire, if I had waited for the second or third 
alarm. It looked about such a fire as we generallj' see when they 
strike the second or third alarm, and that was tho reason why I ran back 
for the steamer, because I could see from the light that it was such a fire 
as would call for a second alarm, and I wanted this company to be ready. 
I thought if I could save a little time, it was important at that time. 

Q. Have 3'ou, as an under^rriter, or your associates, ever had anything 
to say in regard to the construction of the elevator hatches? 

A. Yes, sir. I don't know that we have gone so far as to attempt to 
oblige anybod}' to have self-closing hatches, but we have always pre- 
ferred to have them. There are very few stores, however, that have 
them, but we always make that a point in favor of the risk, when we go 
to examine a building, if it has them. 

Q. Have you ever heard any valid objections to these self-closing 
hatches ? 

A. Not the slightest ; I never heard any objections raised. On the 
other hand, I have heard a good deal said in their praise, both as a pro- 
tection from fire, and dust and dirt, and also as a protection against 
people backing down into them. I don't know what objection tliere can 
be to tliem. I think they are a great improvement. 

Q. Did you ever know any to be removed after thej^ were once put 
in ? 

^4. No, sir. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Was there an}- scarcit}' of fuel that night? 

A. I didn't notice au}'. I heard Ihem telling in some of the baek 
streets, where they got into a narrow alley-way, or something of that kind, 



250 

about using boxes, or wood, or something of that sort, in one or two 
instances. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) When j'ou first reached the fire, was the fire at- 
tacked with the energy and vigor that fires usually are by the depart- 
ment? 

A. Yes, sir ; and I can confirm my belief in that condition of affairs 
by stating that I went one floor above the fire, feeling perfectly confi- 
dent that they would stop it at that height. I went one floor above 
where I actually saw the fire, to spread our covers. I thought there 
might be an elevator there or something of that kind, and I know they have 
been very successful in getting inside of elevators and stopping the fire. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) "Will j-ou, as an expert, give the cause of 
the fire becoming so uncontrollable? 

A. The French roofs. 

Q. Was it the form of the roofs or the amount of timber in them? 

A. It was both. 

Q. Do you think that form of roof, made of any possible material, 
objectionable? 

A. I don't know what material could stand the heat that was got up 
there. I don't think iron would have done it, unless it was very heavy 
iron, as they had not only roofs, but there were those large skylights. 

Q. Suppose the skylights hadn't been made of wood, and the Lutheran 
windows hadn't been made of wood? 

A. If the window casings and skjdights had been made of iron, that 
would have been different, but not only the roofs were made of wood, 
but the skylights also. I know I went up into the third story of the 
second building that caught, on the corner of Otis and Summer streets, 
■when the fire didn't look as if it had got beyond their control in front, 
yet the skylight was on fire, and the stairs were burned down one flight. 
That was before it showed a great deal on the outside. I went into that 
building. The first five thousand dollars the company lost were lost in 
that building. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) What I wanted to ask was whether, in the 
old-fashioned, simple style of roof, if the building had been so construc- 
ted, and finished with wood cornices and Lutheran windows, in the st^de 
that most of those buildings were, it would not have been just as likely 
to take fire as if it had a Mansard roof? 

A. Not quite so much so, because there wouldn't have been so large 
a space to cover with a stream. If a stream can cover a space four or 
six feet square, like the ordinary Lutheran window, it would have more 
effect than it would if it had to cover the whole side of the build- 
ing, as was the case with the building at the corner of Winthrop square 
and Otis street. 

Q. Suppose the windows were the same? 

A. Then there was the wooden cornice. 

Q. Then the trouble doesn't arise from the form of roof; the Mercan- 
tile building had a ver}' heavy wooden cornice. 

A. There wasn't so much wood to it. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) As I understand, the French roof is a question 
entirely independent of its material ; those were wood? 

A. That is the point ; it is the large amount of wood, so high up, out 



251 

of all reach. It was not so much the form, as it was the material. The 
difficult}' was from having so much wood up there, and so high. 

Q. That is, it is the ivooden French roof that is objectionable? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Wasn't another cause of the fire becoming so 
uncontrollable, the time that elapsed before the alarm was given? 

A. The fire had got great headway before it was detected. 

Q. Did you ever see any fire that had got such headway before ? 

A. No, sir. I never attended a first alarm in Boston when a fire had 
got such headway, unless there was some difficulty, as was the case in 
the State-street block, when they went to one box and waited some 
time, and had to go to a second box ; but when they have got an alarm 
from the first box, I don't recollect of attending a fire where it had got 
such headway upon the first alarm. 



HENRY W. WELLINGTON, sworn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Where is your place of business? 

A. No. 66 Chauncy street, corner of Bedford. 

Q. How many stories high? 

A. It is pretty difficult to tell ; it is the old church. There are about 
four floors in it. 

Q. What sort of hatches do you use to your elevator? 

^•1. They denominate them the "Automatic Hatches," I think. I don't 
know any other particular name they give them. 

Q. How do they work? 

A. Very well, sir. 

Q. How long have you had them? 

A. Four and a half years, in my store. 

Q. Have 3'ou had any trouble with them? 

A. Never. 

Q. What are the advantages of them ? 

^1. They are always closed, except when a load is passing through. 
Mr. Kimball's life would have been saved, and Mr. Frothingham's son, 
and a great many other people's lives, the last few years, if they had 
had them. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) What is the expense of those hatches, the 
size of yours? 

A. I can't tell ; not much more than the common hatches^that are used. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) Where are they made? There is a patent on 
them, I suppose? 

A. T don't know that there is a patent on them. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) How did you get them? 

A. I happened to be in one of the mills at Fall River, and stood be- 
side the elevator when a load came up. I noticed it, and as I was about 
fixing up my store, I put them in. 

Q. Do you know of any others in Boston ? 

A. I don't think there are any others. I will say, that I put them in 
our mill in Newtonville afterwards, and our rope broke at one time, and 
the hatches worked so well, that although the load came down as quick 



252 

as it could come, every one of them opened and shut with the exception 
of tlie last, which threw it over. If there had been a little pine block, 
■we could have stopped it. 

Q. It didn't stop the elevator? 

A. No, sir; nothing would stop that. I didn't pay anything for the 
patent right. I contracted with a party to put in the elevator at New- 
tonville. I think they asked me a hundred dollars for the patent right 
to put it in there. I sent the man there who put in my elevator, ^Ir. 
McLaughlin, on North street, and I think he got some deduction on the 
patent right, I don't know. I paid him a certain price, and he was to 
paj' for the patent, and put it in. It has worked admirably at ni}' store, 
and mill, and at the Fall River mills. I have inquired frequently about 
them there. 



MRS. SARAH E. YOUNG, stuorn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) You came out from Mr. Young's building on 
the Saturday night of the fire? 

A. I did, sir, 

Q. At what hoiir? 

A. At twenty minutes before six. 

Q. Did you come out with Mr. Young? 

A. I came out with my husband and three others. There were four 
of us altogether. 

Q. Everything was quiet then? no fire? 

A. Everything as usual. 

JOSEPH R. GROSSE, sivorn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Where is your place of business? 

A. 109 Court street. 

Q. Will you tell us what you know about this fire? 

A. I hardly know where to commence. 

Q. Begin where you first heard of it. 

A. Well, I crossed over the extension of Broadway on to Alhnny 
street with Alderman Powers, and I guess we had gone about the length 
of this Court-house, full as far as thai, and perhaps a little more, and we 
w^ere looking ahead of us, looking at the street lights, and all at once 
the heavens seemed to light right up. 

Q. What time was it? 

A. I should think it was from quarter to twenty minutes past seven ; 
something like that. 

Q. How soon did you reach the fire? 

A. We didn't go directly to the fire ; we went down Albany street to 
Essex street, through Essex street to Mrs. Montgomery's saloon, where 
the Alderman's tw^o children were, and from there to the Boston 
Theatre. We saw a hose-carriage, I should think it was, on Hanisou 
avenue, but there was no alarm struck from the time we saw it until the 
time we entered the Boston Theatre; at least, I didn't hear it, and 
suppose it wasn't struck. 



253 



^ Q. Was your attention called to the fact at the time? 

A. Yes, sir, by, I should suppose, fifty or a hundred making the re- 
mark on the street, " Why don't the bells ring? " 

Q. (By Mr. Fikth.) No alarm had been given when you entered the 
theatre ? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. Should you have heard it if there had been? Wasn't there too 
much noise in the street? 

A. There couldn't have been much noise in the street at that time ; 
there was a bell on the Boylston-street market, right near us, and I 
think if it had rung, we should have heard it, but still there is a bare 
possibility that we might not have heard it. 

Q. (B^^ Mr. PniLBRiCK.) Did you hear any alarm after you got into 
the theatre? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) How long did you stay at the theatre? 

A. It was after ten o'clock. 

Q. Do you know anything about the fire? 

A. Only I was with Aldermen Powers and Cutter, and remained all 
night, until about ten o'clock Sunday morning. 

Q. Did you notice anything special? 

A. Not particularl3', as I know of; only general opinion ; that is all. 

Q. Have you ever been connected with the Fire Department? 

A. I was in the department some twelve j'cars as a member and 
volunteer, 

Q. How long since you have been in the department? 

A. I have not been in the department since steam came in. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) About when was that? 

A. 1 guess it was about eleven years ago. I think I left the depart- 
ment in 1858. There might have been steamers then, but our company 
did not have one. Yes, there were some steamers at that time. I 
recollect the '^ Miles Greenwood." 

Q. How was this fire managed? 

A. Well, so far as I could see. The only deficiency, I should saj'", 
was in the amount of hose. I can't think of anj^hing else. They 
seemed to be standing round with no hose ; they all complained that 
they hadn' those enough. I know it was so particularl}' on Summer street, 
because I went to one of the Engineers and told him he must get some 
hose for No. 10, I think it was. I took that responsibilitv. 

Q. Hose 10, of Boston? 

A Yes, sir. That is located in Washington Village, where I live, 
and I know the most of the company, so I took that responsibility. 

Q. Was there any other hose compan}^ that had the same trouble, that 
you know of? 

A. 1 should think there were half a dozen that could get only just so 
far. They didn't seem to have hose enough. They would want ten, 
twenty, or thirty feet more ; there seemed to be a deficiency. There 
seemed to be enough of it round, but it was all bursted. 

Q. Whether or not those were Boston engines? 

A. Not all of them. I should think I saw four Boston engines, and 
wo or three of the out-of-town engines, more particularl}' where I 



254 



stood at the head of Milk street, near Washington, in Liberty square, 
and down on Chauncy street, 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) Was tliere plenty of water? 

A. In some places I shouldn't think there was ; sometimes, they would 
get two or three streams on a hydrant, and it seemed they couldn't 
reach any particular spot ; but take away one stream, and the other 
seemed to do a good deal of good. There seemed to be a good deal 
of effect to it ; but it scattered all round ; the stream seemed to be 
light. I will say (I don't know that it is material), that I was with' 
the Chief on top of the City Hall. I was in the Mayor's office at the 
time when word came in that the Chief was crazy, and the IMayor 
spoke of putting Capt. Quinn at the head, and I rather objected to that. 
I thought it was not his duty, and just at that time the Chief came in. 
I think it was the Chief of Police who suggested it, and the Mayor sent 
for Mr. Damrell. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) What was the word that came? 

A. That the Chief was crazy, and they had sent him home in a car- 
riage. I think the Chief of Police brought that word into the Mayor's 
office, and soon after that the Chief came in. 

Q. Was he crazy? 

A. If he w^as, I am. I think that is the best answer I can giA'e. No, 
sir ; he was as calm and cool as ever I saw a man in my life. I was 
very much surprised, under the circumstances. 

Q. Did you go to the top of the City Hall with him? 

A. I did. 1 should think we were up there ten or fifteen minutes, 
making suggestions. The only thing I thought of was, that he would 
have to look out for the district where the Post Office was. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) AVhat did he say? 

A. He said himself, that that was the only weak point ; that he 
had engines enough at other places ; but he was afraid that before he 
could get them round and get them to bear, the fire would get ahead 
of him at the head of Water street, and down that way. The en- 
gines were all massed about Summer street and Washington street, 
and it is a long distance to go round and come down through ; 
that seemed to be his only fear, as far as I could judge ; he seemed 
to be pretty sanguine that he had the best of the fire, so far as this 
side of the street was concerned. He didn't seem to be at all alarmed 
about the Washington-street side. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) About what time was it when you were on top 
ofCity liall? 

A. I should say it was about three o'clock Sundny morning. 

Q. Were there any others there with you ? 

A. Oh, yes, sir. I think Alderman Cutter told me I had better go up 
with him, as I knew the Chief better than he did, and having been a 
meml)er of the dei)artment, I might suggest something, and we went up 
together; but there were eight or ten, perhaps a dozen, on the top of the 
building at that time. 



255 



GEORGE W. CARNES, sworn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Where was your place of business? 

A. 43 and 45 Summer street. 

Q. How soon did you hear of the fire ? 

A. I learned that there was a fire as early as eight o'clock in the 
evenino;, and look the nine o'clock Brookline train into the city, I 
• reached my store about half-past nine o'clock. At that stage, the fire was 
in the block below Chauncy street, and had extended across to the op- 
posite block, near the corner of Arch street. I felt uneasy with reference 
to my store, and therefore took m}^ money, a number of account-books 
and insurance papers from my safe. Those I sent by m}" eldest bo}", who 
accompanied ine, to the depot. I then desired to get a clearer knowledge 
of the probability of the fire reaching my store, and went, soon after, on 
the top of the building, where I had an extended view of the fire. At 
that period, there seemed to be no preparation with reference to meeting 
the contingency of the fire at my corner — the corner of Chauncy street 
and Summer street. My own store was located next to that. 

Q. Was your store a part of the Post-Office building — Capen's Post 
Office ? 

A. No, sir ; it was the next above it. 

Q. Next to Hovey's ? 

A. No, sir ; there was one brick store between Hovey's and mine, occu- 
pied by Mr. Walko, a fur-dealer, and by other parties in tlic chambers. 
The want of preparation made me feel uneasy, as regarded the safety of 
my store. I knew that unless a stream was brought through on to either 
the adjoining building, the Post-Office building, or raj- own, it was only 
a question of time as to the destruction of the building. Being anxious 
with reference to my stock, and fearing that parties might pass it out 
through the door, I went below and conferred with two other occupants 
of our building, as to the prudence of removing the stock. At this stage 
I was hopeful as to the preservation of the building. It seemed to me, 
as the fire was working very slowly against the wind, up Summer street, 
that ordinary precautions as to this corner would avert the destruction 
of that part of the block. I looked upon this corner as the key to a block 
of immense value, including, as it did, the stores of Hovey & Co., Mudge 
& Sawyer, Lawrence & Co., Jordan & Marsh ; and it seemed to me a 
natural course, that special attention would be given to this locality by 
the Fire Department. At a later hour, — I think it was not far irom 
twelve o'clock, — four hours, or more, after the fire had taken at the cor- 
ner of Kingston street, — the fire then had crossed Arch street, and was 
working its way in the rear of Mercantile Building, and working up 
Franklin street — I could see the buildings occasionally fall down in 
Franklin street, between Arch street and Hawle}-, and my chief anxiety 
arose from the very tall building which had recently had heavy additions 
made to the roof, on Chauncy street, opposite the old Post-Office building. 
At about this time, not far from twelve o'clock, I was greatly relieved by 
a hose, manned by a strong force, brought up through the Post-Office 
building, on to the tin or metal roof of that building; our own was a 
gravelled and tarred, flat roof. My brother-in-law remarked : " George, 



256 

yonr building is now safe," and I felt considerably relieved. It seemed 
to me the fire could be repelled with that aid alone, unless, owing to the 
great height of this building by the side of the Post-Office building, the 
flames should stretch across the street ; but I was hoping that as the 
block W!)s being consumed gradually, the wall might fall, and that would 
afford relief in the direction of Kingston street. 1 cannot state in de- 
tail ; I cannot seem to recall the precise occurrences, but I passed below 
stairs, being anxious with reference to the stock. I should remark, that 
while on the roof, one of the firemen remarked to me that a passage-way^ 
should be opened through the building, which I occnpied, that they might 
pass in, or out, as occasion called. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbkick.) As a place of retreat? 

A. Yes, sir; a place of retreat from the roof. In the vicinit}^ of fif- 
teen or twenty minutes, being at the foot of the stairs, I met quite a num- 
ber of the firemen, I infer an entire company, who passed down leisurely, 
remarking as they went out: "It is too hot to remain there." I looked 
upon it with some surprise, because the position they had taken on the 
corner building could have been changed to my own building, where they 
could have been amply screened, either behind the chimnej-s, or the tall 
projection on the front, and also 1)}^ the skylight, through which they 
passed down. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbkick.) Do you know what company that was? 

A. No, sir, I am not able to say. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) Do you know what Engineer was there? 

A. I did not see any Engineer in the building. The firemen remarked 
that by orders of the Engineer they had the privilege of passing through 
our store. ] told them they were free to use it. At a later hour, wishing 
to see what the prospect was as regarded the corner building, learing that 
the trimmings might be ignited, I stepped into the middle of the street. 
There was a hose company in the middle of the street at that time. They 
were playing on the front corner of the Post-Office building. They ap- 
peared to me to be doing very little good, although some of the window 
trimmings Avere burning ; they might have allayed the fire in that re- 
spect, but it had very little bearing upon the preservation of the build- 
ing. At that stage, looking up to the top of my building, I saw a little 
fire, perhaps the breadth of a foot or two in extent, at the uppermost parts 
of this tower-like structure that was built up. A gentleman from Brook- 
line was standing b}^ my side, connected with the Fire Department of 
Brookline. I remarked to him, " It does seem too bad that that buildiiig 
should be destroyed with that small beginning." "Well," said he, "I 
will try to find an P^ngineer." As he left me, one thought suggested it- 
self. This fire had not yet attracted the attention of the firemen, and I 
impulsively stepped forward to the men who had the pipe playing upon 
the corner building, and proposed giving them five hundred dollars if 
they would put a stream on my buiUling, or carry a hose up through the 
building. In regard to carrying the hose up, one or two responded that 
it would be as much as their life was worth to go up there. Knowing 
well the construction of the building, and the easy approaches to tiiat 
point, and the ease with which one could escape from that position, either 
in front or at the back, — and I may say here, that the construction of 
the building favored its protection moi'e, perhaps, than any other build 



257 



ing that was consumed that night ; there was a passage-'way in the rear, 
and by a short ladder, — I think even by climbing — they could have got 
on to the lower part of Hovej^'s building, making the centre of their 
main hall, — I felt disturbed by the response that it would be hazardous 
to go up tliere, and replied that if they would follow me, I would lead 
the wa}'- ; upon which it was said, " We cannot go without the. authority 
of an Engineer." 

The proposal to change the stream from the corner, which I felt justi- 
fied, under the circumstances, in making, because the stream, in my 
judgment, was doing no good, whereas apparently it might have done 
much towards the preservation of the building which I occupied, — that 
proposal wrought like magic upon them. There might have been some 
six or ten men in the cluster. No. 3 was on the caps of some of them. 
I do not know whether it was a Boston company, or what it was. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) What time was this? 

A. This was, I should sa}-, about one, possibly nearly half-past one. 
The proposal to pay them five hundred dollars excited them considerably, 
and they made the remark, one to another, " There is a prize offered," 
and in their impetuosity to get their stream to bear, they either fell to 
the ground, those who held the pipe, or the hose burst ; I am unable to 
say which ; but in the meantime, wishing to calculate as to the chances 
of the early destruction of the building, knowing that from that begin- 
ning it would work its way into our work-room, that was in the upper 
story of the building, I went up the stairway, and went into the room, 
and approached to the front windows. At that time, in the corner of the 
room, near this fire on the outside, there were little jets of light to be 
seen through tlie cracks in the plaster, and while I was standing there, a 
small piece of the plaster fell, perhaps two feet in length, and that began 
to sprinkle fire among the cotton goods, linings and such like, which we 
had been using in the manufacture of our boys' garments. I then passed 
down, feeling certain that without a hose the building would be 
destroyed. 

In the mean time, my friend, Mr. Kenrick, of Brookline, an Engineer 
I think of the Fire Department, returned, and said he was unable to find 
■ an Engineer, but if I saw a man with a white fire-cap on, speak to him. 
Almost immediately after, I saw one, and accosted him. Said I : "I 
, would really like to save that building. I think if a hose is carried up 
inside, that fire can be put out." He was looking in that direction. 
Said he : " We have no hose ; " and I knew then that the building was 
doomed. In a little while after, the smoke began to issue from the upper 
windows, and shortly after, flame, and by degrees it burned to the next 
stoiy, and passed down from story to storj' in that way, covering the 
space of an hour or more. 

These are the facts. It might be superfluous for me to express my 
view of the inefficiency of the branch of the Fire Department in that 
localit3\ I have no other knowledge of the Fire Department, except 
what I saw in connection with that building, and on the street. 

There is one thing I would like, with your permission, to suggest. I 

was surprised at the inappropriateness of the tools, or instruments, made 

use of to reach points where the fire was burning on other buildings. 

The building directly opposite mine, the Mercantile Building, with 

17 



258 

heavy eaves, piojccting over the front, and a buihling, I tliink only two 
stories and a half high, might be accounted a very low building, as com- 
pared with ordinary warehouses. Not far from the time my building be- 
gan to burn, the eaves adjoining the Wliite building opposite Chauncy 
street, had taken fire, — a small stretch of the eaves, just adjoining the 
White building. It attracted the attention of a fireman having a pipe, 
and he directed the stream towards it, but could not reach it. Shortly 
after, there were two streams playing. The fire was not spreading with, 
any rapidity along the eaves, but seemed to be burning just on that cor- 
ner, and I saw, alter the space of from three to five minutes, two streams 
directed to that point, with great -efforts on the part of the firemen to 
reach it with the Avater. They would toss the pipe so as to jerk the 
water and reach it, but it a^Dpeared to me that hardly a sprinkle of the 
water reached that point. 

I omitted to mention, that after I had come down from the work-room 
and passed again into the street, the}' had adjusted their pipe, and were 
successful in reaching tlie eaves of the house, playing higher than they 
had on the opposite side of the street ; but they could only sprinkle a 
little of the water on the roof, which was doing no good, and the build- 
ing was destroj'ed from that small beginning. I feel sure from this, 
that could I have anticipated this contingency, an ordinary hose attached 
to a faucet in the building would have put out the fire. One single hose 
from any engine, steam or hand, would have put out the fire in my 
building. 

Q. (By Mr. Eussell.) You say there would have been no trouble in 
carrying a hose up there ? 

A. No, sir ; it would have been a pleasure rather than a rash perform- 
ance to have done it m^-self. There is a mystery to me about the 
hose carried to the top of the corner building. The firemen came 
down through our building, and passed out. Whether this hose was 
withdrawn or destroyed, I am not able to say. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) You did not see them take the hose out? 

A. No, sir ; I did not see them withdraw the hose. 

Q. Was this hose carried up through the corner building? 

A. I did not see the entrance ; I only saw it as it emerged from the 
sky-light ; but our porter says that this hose was carried up through the 
front door of the buildinga djoining our store. That same hose, had it 
been withdrawn and located up in our building, it is a question whether 
the corner building could have been saved ; it needed, I think, water 
from without on the trimmings ; but I feel sure that it would have saved 
our building, and the fur store between Hovey's and ours, next to ours. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) You cannot tell who the Engineer was that 
you spoke to ? 

A. No, sir ; he was a stranger. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) Did you say anything to the Chief that evening? 

A. No, sir ; I did not. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Do you know what those steamers were that 
were placing ineffectually on the Mercantile Building ? 

A. No, sir ; I do not think I looked to see. I only looked at the 
stream and hose as they were being used. I feel aggrieved, as a citizen, 
at the inadequacy of the preparations made with reference to the pro- 



259 

tection of that corner. The fire was hours in approaching. It was ap- 
parently almost the natural boundary of the fire in that direction, and 
but very little eff'ort was needed to prevent the fire from working into 
that block ; and had there been any directing hand, it seems as though 
it would have been only the exercise of common sense to have made 
some provision with reference to pei'sistent efforts in saving that corner. 
The efforts appeared to me irregular, fitful, left almost to the choice of 
the men ; and the Fire Department in that section appeared to me more 
like a mob than an3'thing else. 

There were incidents connected with the fire, on the street, that an- 
noyed me very much. Our porter was perhaps a more particular witness 
of them, but I saw firemen ranging the street, not far from the front of 
Mercantile Building, with articles of merchandise in their hands, con- 
gratulating each other as to what they had got. One of them had a 
paste-board box, that appeared to me to contain a muff", or some article 
of fur for ladies' wear, and he was telling one of his comrades what he 
had got. There were many of the firemen who were perfectly listless as 
regarded the igniting of buildings. This was at a time when there was 
verj^ great danger of the Mercantile Building being destroyed, as the 
fire was then working its way into the rear, and particularly into the 
India-rubber store adjoining Holbrook's. 

Q. (B}' Mr, Firth.) You cannot tell whether those were Boston fire- 
men or not, can you? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Do you know more than that they had fire- 
men's hats on ? 

A. They had firemen's garments on. 

Q. Anything but hats? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) They were in uniform ? 

A. 'Tiie ordinary uniform worn by firemen. I do not know that I could 
specify as to the entire rig. It was that form of dress which I have been 
accustomed to see firemen wear at fires ; fire caps in particular. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) I would like to have you recollect, if you can, 
whether the}' wore an3'thing but the fire caps? 

A. Nothing that attracted my attention. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) Anything like a uniform? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) Were the men who had the muff", or something 
like a muff, the same who had been up in your building? 

A. I could not have recognized one of the men who were in the 
building, and the countenance of this man was not impressed upon me. 
It was at a later hour, — it might have been an hour later, — and the 
firemen were mingling with each other in the street. There were a good 
man}' men in firemen's dress, who seemed to have no particular duty to 
perform, other than to enter some of those stores, and to move through 
the streets with these articles. This was between my store and Trinity 
Church, almost in front of the Mercantile Building. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) What is 3'our porter's name? 

A. James Quirk. 

Q. Where is he to be found now ? 



260 

A. He is at my store. 

Q. AVas your building of such form of roof as to allow you to go on 
the top of the liighest part? 

A. The whole roof was flat. The tower was slated and came up to a 
point. 

Q. Where was the fire ? 

A. It was upon that slated part. 

Q. Was it between the upper and lower corners of the Mansard? 

A. Yes, sir ; I infer that this ridge was of wood. It began to burn 
near the top, and worked its wa^^ into the lathing. 

Q. Were 3'ou the owner of tlie store? 

A. No, sir ; it was owned by A. C. Hersey, of Hingham. 

Q. (By Mr. Ppiilbrick.) Was there any point from which you could 
have hung carpets, or clothes, over that tower? 

A. Had I anticipated this, I think I could have thrown them over that. 

Q. Had 3'ou any means of wetting yourself? 

A. I could have poured water on. I admit that I had not the pres- 
ence of mind to do it. Soon after the fire commenced, a fireman came 
in and said he was very thirsty, and went down into the cellar ; I let 
the water on, and he quenched his thirst. The difficulty appeared to me 
that the pipes thi-ew too large streams ; that the calibre of the pipes 
was too great. I wondered that they did not use smaller pipes. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) Did you see anything of the way the fire 
was fought on Hovey's building, wliile you were on your building? 

A. While I was standing on the roof, they were covering the upper 
wood-work, the framing of their windows above the eaves, — the eaves 
were of stone, — with blankets, and appeared to be throwing water on 
(I did not see any hose), as they stood near the eaves. They had a 
standing place where the windows set back from the eaves. 

Q. Were those firemen? 

A. They appeared to be men connected with the store. 

Q. What time was that? 

A. That I should say was not far from twelve o'clock. 

Q. (By Mr. Piiilbkick.) Were they doing that before the fire got on 
to your building? 

A. Yes, sir ; long before that. 

WILLIAM B. WHITING, sivorn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Where is j'our place of business? 

A. 67 Devonshire street. 

Q. What can you tell us of these self-opening and closing hatches. 

A. 1 have been somewhat conversant with them ever since they were 
introduced. 

Q. How long is that? 

A. I should think about eight years. When they are in good order, 
we regard them as a veiy good safeguard against fire passing from 
room to room. 

Q. How many have you seen in operation? 

A. I cannot tell, as I inspect about five hundred different cotton 



261 

mills, and most of them have one in ; I cannot tell the exact number ; 
hundreds, I think, very probably. 

Q. You consider them in fixing the rate of a cotton mill? 

A. Yes, sir ; the hatch, or the want of it. 

Q. How much does it affect the rate? 

A. I do not know as it would aflect the rate very seriously. It might 
have the affect of determining whether we took the risk or not. There is 
no great variation in our mutual rates, only say from eightj^ one-hun- 
dredths to one and one-eighth per cent. ; and the want of these hatches 
may deter us from taking the risk at all. 

Q. (B3' Mr. Philbrick.) Is there any particular objection, that j^ou 
know of, to introducing them into elevators? 

A. None whatever, except that the elevator might be situated so that 
it might not be convenient to do it. At the same time, there is no gen- 
eral difficulty in introducing them anywhere. 

Q. Merely in matters of detail, to provide for them at some particular 
point ? 

A. That is all. They are applicable to almost any elevator. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) Of what company are you Secretary? 

A. The Boston Manufacturers' Mutual. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) By what name do you call this particular form 
of hatch ? 

A. I generally term it the " Thompson Automatic Hatch." William 
H. Thompson, President of the Manchester Print Works and the Kear- 
sage Mills was the man who first brought it into notice. It was patented 
by a young man in his employ, and first introduced by him. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Do you know what it costs? 

A. I think, for cotton mills, it is one or two cents per spindle. 

Q. (By Mr. Firtii.) Are they used to any extent, except in factories, 
to 3'our knowledge? 

A. Not ver}'^ much. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) Is there any good reason why they should 
not be? 

A. None at all, that I know of. There is only one thing to be looked 
out for, in case the hatches are put in, that is, that they work. They 
are pushed apart by a wedge-like projection from the top of the car, and 
if they are not well oiled, they will sometimes stick. 



THOMAS MINNS, sworn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) This statement of yours in the " Boston Jour- 
nal," of Nov. 13th, is a correct statement of what you saw and did on 
the niglit of the fire ? 

A. Yes, sir. 

I was unable to go to the fire till about half-past ten, and after seeing its extent in the neighbor- 
hood of Summer street decided that a line of buildings around it mast be blown up by gunpowder. I 
sought to ftnd Chief Engineer Daniroll. to urge that course upon him, and followed him dowu Bed- 
ford street, towards Broad street, and there learned he had gone to Pearl street. I then turned and 
went to the City Hall, where I found Mayor Waston and Alderman Jenks and urged that immediate 
preparations should be made to blow up a cordon of buildings. Finding that by law tlu' Chief Engi- 
neer has supreme authority at a tire, the Mayor. Alderman Jenks and myself sought Mr. Damrell in 
the direction of Pearl street. We found him iu Federal street, between Milk aud Fraukliu streets. 



262 



Ho said he had sent to Chelsea and another place, I think the powder-hoats, for powder, and wonld 
blow up the buildings on the east side of Federal street. He added, "Now I want j'ou to understand 
one thing, an explosion will produce a great mass of light debris that will burn fiercely, and I must 
have a large quantity of water at once. I am afraid I shall not have water enough." 

I then went, at Mr. Damrcll's request, to learn how the fire was at Mercantile Building, and on my 
return found the Mayor and Chief Engineer had been summoned to City Hall, where I went. A few 
gentlemen were in the Mayor's ofiice. .and others soon entered. General W. L. Burt. Charles H. 
Allen, and others, and Mr. Damrell, soon entered, saying, " Gentlemen, here I am, what do you 
want ? " 

Mr. Burt said, " We want the Common opened to receive goods, and gentleman .appointed to or- 
ganize gangs of a hundred men to remove goods, and Mr. Mayor, 1 think you should send to the Navy 
Yard fur powder to blow up buildings, and the Marine Corps to preserve order, and have the Militia 
called out." 

Volunteers were then called for to take charge of parties of men and blow up buildings, and Mr. 
Damrell gave them written authority to that effect, and said they were authorized to take possession 
of any team for th.at purpose. 

The Chief of Police was summoned to detail police for spcci.al service. 

Ab soon as I received my commission, I proceeded to the corner of Milk and Federal streets. Six 
kegs of powder had been placed in a building on the east side of Federal street, half-way from Milk 
to Franklin street by the Engineer, but the fuses had not ignited It, and the firemen were unwilling to 
approach the building. 

The powder was in kegs of twenty-five pounds, and canisters of ten pounds, and when six kegs 
were put in a building it was very difficult for inexperienced persons to make one explosion of the 
whole, although we used fuses of the same length in each. At firstwe used fuses of too great length, 
and time was lost. 

Afterward, a few kegs of one hundred and twenty pounds each were obtained, and with them great 
effects were produced. 

I have no dovbt that if roe had had powder plenty in large packages of one hundred and twenty 
pounds or more, the fire woidd have been stopped at Milk street. 

I continued all night in the neighborhood of Milk, Kilby and Congress streets. At about six 
o'clock in the morning I had got a line of hose through the building on Kilby street next the Shoe and 
Leather B.ank. playing on the rear of those buildings and on the Merchants' Exchange. 

I broke through the iron shutter of the Sub-Treasury room, and e.xplored the room about the dome 
and in the upper story, which was filled with a dense smoke. Finding the fire in the rear of the 
dome could be reached in this way, a line of hose was carried up the entry over the dome. 

The Chief Engineer soon appeared here and said, "I want to get into the upper story of this 
building." and I went up with him. He soon had two more lines of hose in the upper stories, and 
finally six or seven lines altogether playing in this building. 

I cannot doubt that the great exertions made by Mr. Damrell to save this great building, and the 
fire-proof character of the building itself, stopped the spread of the fire in this direction. 

THOMAS MINNS. 



JAMES POWERS, Alderman, sworn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) You were coming from South Boston by the 
Broadway extension on the night of the fire? 

A. I was, sir. 

Q. Wliere were you when you saw the light? 

A. I think I must have been near the Catholic church on Albany 
street, between the Catholic Church and the bridge that crosses the 
Albany Railroad, on Albany street. 

Q. Did you hear any alarm? 

A. No, sir ; I did not. 

Q. Where did you go? 

A. Well, I was walking along about that spot, looking, of course, di- 
rectly ahead, and as sudden as a flash' of lightning, it appeared to nie, 
the sky was illuminated, and immediately there was a hurrah in the 
street from children, boys and girls. They sang out, "Fire," and all, of 
course, ran in that direction. I was walking along with a person who 
had been a fireman. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) What was his name? 

A. His name was Grose, and he remarked to me, ''Iw^ondcr there 
is no alarm." I made the same remark to him. We walked along a 
little faster; and occasionally we would both say, "It is strange there 
is no alarm." We walked on until we got to P^ssex street. When we 
got to Essex street, we could not sec the light, or it was not so brilliant 



263 

or apparent to us as it was when we first saw it. We stood there 
awhile, hesitating whether we should go to the fire or not. We were 
going to the Boston Theatre. In the mean time, we remarked again 
that it was strange that there was no alarm, and we concluded, as we 
could not see the light so brilliantly as we could at the start, the fire 
must have been "a flash in the pan," or something, and it had gone out ; 
and so, instead of going to it, we switched off to the left, and went 
through Essex street to the Boston Theatre. Still there was no alarm. 
We mentioned it as we went along. When we got about up to the 
Globe Theatre, an engine or hose-carriage, — I cannot specify which, — 
came around the corner, but slill we had heard no alarm. Everybody 
was halloing " Fire," and running. We went to the Boston Theatre, 
and up to the time we got there, we heard no alarm. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Was it a subject of remark at the time, that 
there was no alarm given ? 

A. We had no conversation with anybody except ourselves. We re- 
marked to each other a dozen times, I should think, at least, that it was 
strange we heard no alarm. 

Q. Then yoiu- attention was called to it. If there had been an alarm 
given, could you have failed to hear it? 

A. I do not see how we could have failed to hear it. Still, that is neg- 
ative testimony. If I heard a man swear that he did hear an alarm, I 
should not of course want to dispute him, but neither of us heard any 
alarm. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) Although you were listening? 

A. We were listening and watching. Every one was running to the 
fire, but we heard no alarm at all, until we got to the Boston Theatre, 
and went in. I judge it uuisthave been fifteen minutes from the time we 
first saw the fire break out ; it came like a fiash of lightning from the 
sky. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Did you go to the fire when you came out? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. How long did you remain? 

A. Perhaps an hour, or thereabouts, when we went at that time. Then 
we went to our houses. We saw that the fire was stretching along so 
rapidly towards South Boston, that we were of the opinion that eventu- 
ally it must go over there, and we thought our people must be alarmed 
at home, and we both went over. One reason for our going home was, 
that I had two of my children with me, — two young children. That 
was the principal reason why I went home. 

Q. Did you go to the City Hall? 

A. Yes, sir ; after I came back from home, I came to the fire, and 
then went to the City Hall. I think it might have been nearly midnight 
when I got to the City Hall. 

Q. Did you see the Chief there at any time? 

A. I did, sir. 

Q. What time was that? 

A. I cannot say, with any degree of certainty, whether I saw him af- 
ter three hours, or four hours. He was in and out there. I should 
think I saw him two or three times. I stayed at the City Hall with the 
Mayor, and saw Mr. Norcross and other noted gentlemen about there . 



264 

I think I remember bim (Mr. Norcross) more distinctly than anybody. 
He seemed to be busy with the Maj'or, — in consultation with him. 
Q. IIow did Mr. Damrell appear? Was he self-possessed, or other- 



wise 



A. He did not appear to me at all unusual. I have seen him many 
times at fires, and I always considered him a man likel}' to get excited 
under such circumstances. He did not appear to me under an}' unusual 
degree of excitement, when I saw him. 

Q. Did you go on top of the City Hall with him? 

A. I did, sir. 

Q. Did he state his plans there for extinguishing the fire? 

A. I cannot remember that he did state any plans. I saw Alderman 
Cutter when I got there, and we went, with Mr. Grose, the gentleman 
who came over with me, out to Milk street, and found Alderman Jenks 
there. He said he w^as looking after things there. We found men 
there carrying off india-rubber goods and other things. There appeared 
to be a ribbon store, or something of the kind there, and we saw engine 
men carrying off different things that thej^ were getting out of stores. 
The}' had a disposition to break into other stores, and Alderman Cutter 
and m3'self immediately interfered with their carrying otf those goods. 
We did not care so much about the goods, but it seemed to us that they 
were neglecting their posts somewhere, and we interfered. They said 
the goods were given to them by the people who owned the stores. We 
remonstrated with them, and told them that was not what they were 
there for ; that they were expected to do dut3% and they were neglecting 
their duty ; it was not a matter of the loss of the goods at all. He spoke 
to a policeman then, and he stopped them from breaking open other 
stores. 

Q. Were they members of the Boston Fire Department? 

A. I cannot say that. They almost all had white hats on, the shape 
of an Engineer's hat ; those leather hats, painted white. 

Q. Is there any compan}' of firemen in Boston who wear those? 

A. Not that I know of. I think our Boston firemen, as a general 
thing, do not wear those, except the Engineers. Those hats looked like 
our Engineer's hats, and most of those men who were in that place seemed 
to have those white hats on. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) Was there any want of water that night? 

A. Well, I saw a want of force to the water. I saw, of course, a 
great want of engines, also. When I came to the City Hall and con- 
sulted with the Mayor, Aldermen Cutter and myself went the circuit of 
the fire twice, all around it, that is as far as any one could get until we 
met it where it had burned down through on to Broad street, and then 
we went the other way. I stayed there all night, went home in the morn- 
ing, and came back again and stayed all the next night. Of course, I saw 
buildings burning up where there was no water and no engines at all to 
play on them. All the engines, I supposed, were at work in other places. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) There were not enough to go round? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. (By Mr. Fikth.) Can you fix the time when you saw the firemen 
taking those goods? 

A. That must have been somewhere about one or two o'clock Sunday 



265 



morning. Well, all the wa}' along from one o'clock to three. I saw 
them also in Summer street, carrying off india-rubber goods, but where I 
saw the most of it was out here in Milk street. I saw engine men with 
a number of coats on tlieir backs ; some of them appeared to have half 
a dozen. When I was in Summer street, I saw some going towards 
Washington street with tliera, and other firemen coming towards them, 
and they would say, " Give us a coat," and the others would reply, 
" Go and get them yourselves." They would pass on with all they had. 
It appeared to me that they were going to put them in some safe place. 



THOMAS L. JENKS, Alderman, sivorn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) You are an Alderman of the city? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. How soon did you reach the fire? 

A. I went immediately after the third alarm. 

Q. Please tell us in your own way all 3'ou saw that is worthy of 
notice ; anything you think we ought to know. 

A. Soon after I got there, I met the Chief and suggested the practica- 
bility of blowing up those high buildings, in the immediate vicinity, for 
the purpose of stopping the fire. 

Q,. What time vvas that? 

A. I shouUl think in the vicinity of nine o'clock. 

Q. What did the Chief say ? 

A. He said he didn't see any line where he could make a break of that 
kind. 

Q. Was there an}' further conversation on that subject? 

A. He said that he had sent to Salem, Lowell, and Lawrence for aid, 
and requested me to go to the telegraph office and see if the despatches 
had goiie right. I went, and found I could get no response from Lowell, 
and in addition to that, I telegraphed to Providence and to Worcester, 
and reported the fact back to him. I then went to City Hall and found 
the Mayor there. 

Q. What time was that? 

A. I have no idea of time after that during the night. I suggested to 
him to turn the city carts out, to carry away goods ; and he said, "-Cer- 
tainly." And we despatched three or four messengers to look for the 
Superintendent. I then went witli the Mayor to the fire, and found the 
Chief there, and told him we would sustain him in doing anything he 
felt justified in doing to stop the fire. A consultation was held with the 
Engineers, and it was decided to blow up some buildings. 

Q. Where was the consultation? 

A. My impression is, that it was on Federal street. 

Q. What was done in pursuance of that, if anything? 

A. I think they sent for powder. I went back to the Citj^ Hall with 
the Mayor ; we went into the fire-alarm telegraph operator's room, where 
we could get a good survey- of the territory. After doing that, we came 
down into the Mayor's rocmi, and diflTerent parties there were assigned 
different positions at the fire. 



266 



Q. Did you liavc, in the consultation with the Engineers, any definite 
line of defence with gunpowder? 

A. It was decided to blow throngh to tlie next street a block of tall 
buildings tliat were there, that were innnediatel}^ followed by some low 
buildings ; they thought they could control the fire at that point. 

Q. The next street in what direction? 

A. Westerly, on Devonshire, I think. The parties when they left 
City Hall were assigned ditferent positions ; for instance, I had Milk 
street, from Devonshire to Washington, and I remained there until seven 
o'clock in the morning. 

Q. Did you see any explosions? 

A. One. 

Q. Where was that? 

A. Corner of Washington and Milk. 

Q. What was the result? 

A. The result was, to take a large amount of combustible material 
from the top of the " Transcript " building, and thereby, I think, save 
the steeple of the Old South. 

Q. From the top of the building? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Was there an}' powder put in the " Transcript" building? 

A. No, in the building adjoining. 

Q. Currier & Trott's building? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Was the " Transcript " building nearly burned then? 

A. There was a large wooden structure upon the top of it that was in 
flames ; the building was in flames from the top to the bottom, and the 
jar of this explosion shook that down — the whole of it. Tlie buildings 
upon the opposite side took fire several times during the night, and were 
put out. The fire did not cross Milk street on my district — not to do 
an_y serious damage. 

Q. How did the firemen in your district work? 

A. Not well, sir. 

Q. What was the trouble? 

A. I think it was a Charlestown company that was there. There 
seemed to be promiscuous plundering. 

Q. Did they neglect their duty to plunder? 

A. There did not seem to be a large amount of duty done by them on 
the street. The Chief came along one time in the night after I was 
there, — the roof of the building on the northerly side was on fire; I 
bad been unable to induce anybody to go up there, and he sent some 
parties up there, and they put the Lutherans out that were on fire. 

Q. What building was that? 

A. I think it was the second building from Devonshire street. 

Q. Did you notice any company that were engaged in plundering be- 
sides this Charlestown company ? 

A. Almost everj'body that I saw had material. 

Q. Almost every fireman? 

A. Almost everybody that was about the fire there. There seemed to 
be promiscuous plundering. 

Q. Was it given to them ? 



267 

A. One of those buildings that was not burnt on the opposite side of 
the street was broken into by some parties, and goods taken out. 
Q. What was the material? What were the goods? 

A. My impression is, it was india-rubber. I saw any quantity of 
india-rubber coats and boots. 

Q. To what extent did the firemen engage in this? 

A. Almost every one I saw either had a coat or boots. Some of thera 
sat down and changed their boots. 

Q. Firemen? 

A. Yes, sir ; they had firemen's hats on ; that is the only way I knew. 

Q. Do you know what companies were in your district besides this 
Charlestown company ? 

A. A company came in the morning from Portsmouth, N. H. 

Q. Was that before or after this plundering? 

A. After. 

Q. I mean, at the time the plundering was going on, was there any 
other besides the Charlestown company? 

A. I think not. 

Q. You don't know what number that was, or what name? 

A. No, sir, I don't. 

Q. On what building was that engine playing? 

A. They played upon Ives' store, and one or two buildings this side 
of that. 

Q. Were they firemen from that company who went up on the build- 
ing 3^ou spoke of to put out the fire? 

A. I am not positive. Mr. Damrell called somebody that he knew 
and sent them up there, and they put out the fire. 

Q. You saw the Chief at different times, — when you saw him, was 
he self-possessed or otherwise? 

A. I saw him once or twice when he was excited, perhaps, as any- 
body would be under an emergency. 

Q. Did he seem to know what he was about? What he wanted to do, 
or otherwise? 

A. I hardly know how to answer that. I saw him no time in the 
night when he did not give orders as he was passing from place to place. 

Q. Could you give any judgment as to the period between the 
time you advised the use of gunpowder and the time when that consul- 
tation was held in Federal street? 

A. It must have been about an hour and a half, — it might have been 
two hours. 

Q. Who superintended that explosion of Currier & Trott's building 
that was so effective? 

A. One of the Assistant Engineers, I think. 

Q. You don't know which one ? 

A. I do not. 

Q. Did 3'ou notice any want of water for the engines? 

A. I did, in different places. Where there were two or three streams 
playing, apparently from the same point, there was not a sufficient 
quaiitit}' of water, 

Q. Did you notice an}' case where fuel was wanting? 

A. I think I saw them breaking some boxes in one place. 



268 

Q. Did the engine stop ? 

A. No, sir, it was going. 

Q. What time did you reach the fire? 

A. I left my place immediately after the third alarm. 

Q. Wiiere was the lire when yon got there? 

A. I think it was on the four corners. 

Q. Did you notice any particular endeavor to stop the fire on the 
corner of Otis street from extending over in that neighborhood? Was 
there any v\^ater poured upon that building, or any ladders put up? 

A. I don't think I did. 

Q. Would you have been likely to have noticed it? 

A. I should, if it had been done. 

Q. Were 3'ou in Winthrop square soon after? 

A. I think I went down through Winthrop square to the telegraph 
office. Winthrop square was not on fire, — not what you might term 
Winthrop square — I think the corner was on fire, but Winthrop square 
had not been destro3'ed. I had an impression if these high buildings 
were knocked down, we might control the debris and keep it from getting 
beyond that point. 

Q. Had the fire worked some way down Otis street on your arrival ? 

A. No, sir, I don't think it had. 

Q. Was there any apparatus at work on Otis street, fighting it? 

A. I would not be positive. 

Q. Was it too hot then for apparatus to work at the corner of King- 
ston and Summer? 

A. I was there close to the corner of Kingston and Summer, and 
sta3'ed there some time. The heat when I arrived there was not anj'thing 
to what it was afterwards. 

Q. Where were the engines playing when y')u arrived? Where were 
they stationed? 

A. There were three or four, I think, on Summer street ; one of them, 
I think, by the church. 

Q. What church? 

A. Trinity. 

Q. Did you see any down Kingston ? 

A, I did not notice. 

Q. Did you think the firemen did everything that could be done at that 
time, while 3'ou were there? 
. A. Perhaps I am hardly a judge. 

Q. You have never been connected with the Fire Department? 

A. No, sir. I was very strongly impressed with the idea of using 
powder when I first got there. 

Q. "When you first arrived? 

A. Yes, sir. 

GEORGE GARDNER, sworn. 

Q. What can you tell us about the fire? If you will tell your story, 
probablj' that will be the shortest way. 

A. I saw a good deal of the fire, and was very much interested in it. 
I had been dining at six o'clock. 

I suppose it was somewhere from half-past seven to eight, when I 



269 

went to Summer street, and to the neighborhood of the fire. It 
was then in the building that it took in at the lower corner of Kings- 
ton street ; it may have reached on to the other, but not sufficiently 
that I decided that it had ; but this building was entirely in flames from 
top to bottom. I stayed in that neighborhood for a time. The wind was 
bearing away from the other side of Summer street — perhaps towards 
the south-west, I should say. I saw on the other side of Otis street, the 
eaves of a building were beginning to smoke ; then there was some 
water thrown up, or some water attempted to be thrown up, but it 
seemed to reach it rather in spray, — and then suddenly that all burst 
into flames. At that time, I hadn't any alarm in regard to the fire, be- 
cause I thought there was a fair possibility of its being arrested in that 
neighborhood, although I saw the heat was so intense in the first build- 
ing that it prevented any one getting very near for an efficient purpose. 
I then remained in that neighborhood for a time until it had worked this 
way one or two stores — I should think about two, or it might possibly 
have been three stores ; and I afterwards went home (I live at the cor- 
ner of Beacon and Charles), and reported the state of things, and got 
something to eat and some refreslmient. Then I went down again to 
the fire. I then felt that it was very dangerous for Hovey's store and 
the upper part of Summer street. I felt that if it got to Chauncy 
street, the chances were it would get above that. When I got back I 
found it had worked this vray. I should hardly think it was more than 
half way between Kingston street and Chauncy street, and on the 
other side. It had moved about half way between Otis street to Arch 
street. I didn't go down to the fire that time. I went immediately to 
Hovej^'s store. I went into Hovey's store and looked round there and went 
up on to the roof, and I told them to wet blankets and put them on and 
nail them up around the wood-work, etc. When I went in, I found they 
had made the usual preparations. They had filled their buckets with 
water, although at that time I had strong hopes it would not come to us. 
They had filled what buckets they had, and they had a pretty good 
supply, and distributed them about the building. I went into the base- 
ment to see how they got water. The water usually runs up in the 
store, but they were drawing too much that night ; it was very feeble. 
There was but one faucet that ruu water, and that but slowly. It 
seemed to me it took an age to fill a bucket. 

Q. How high up was this ? 

A. This was in the basement. All the water had to be carried up by 
hand. They will occasionally, on a Saturday, once in a few months, per- 
haps, put out their fire and let the boiler cool down so the fireman can 
go into it on Sunday and clean it out ; and it so chanced on that after- 
noon the fireman had drawn off" his boiler, and let his fire cool down, so 
we could not use the elevator, and everything had to be carried up by 
hand ; and from the feeble stream of water that was running there he 
had to fill his boilers and get up his fire with cold water before he could 
get his steam. It was quite a long time before that was accomplished. 

In the mean time, the water was carried up by hand in these backets 
and the blankets were wet. After taking these precautions, the fire 
was still distant ; it had not crossed Chauncy street, but still, as I 
remarked to some one, it was worth fifty per cent, to insure the building 



270 

then. I thought there was a chance of its not reaching us ; that it 
might be stopped. There was nothing to be clone but to wait for the 
fire to come up to us, and that time was occupied in protecting the 
goods and keeping out people that wanted to come in. Then the fire 
began to come, and there was a great call for water to be carried up by 
hand, because the heat was drying the blankets. Then after a time, 
before the tire got dangerously upon us, the elevator was at work. 
That was a very great relief, because they had filled the iron :»sh barrels 
down there. The water ran so slowly that when you sent down your 
buckets from the attic it would seem as if they never would get back 
again, and we lost all the time the water was not running by not having 
anything to draw it into. They filled what things the}' could find which 
could not be carried up before, and they were put into the elevator and 
carried up into the attic. That gave an immediate supply for wetting 
those bUmlcets, as the heat, although it was at a considerable distance 
then, required that they should be constantly attended to, — paiticu- 
larly those on the roof. The difficulties to contend with were the want 
of water and the difficult}' of getting water throughout a part of it, and 
we had to economize our water in every respect. In fact, a little water 
is as good as a great deal. Then the fire came. Among other things 
they took down all the little sun-curtains ; pulled them down, because 
they would catch, and it would take a tumbler of water to put them 
out, and water was too precious. These sort of things I speak of more 
in detail, because they were successful, and it does not always occur to a 
person what to do ; what has been done suggests to another what to do. 
Speaking of the scarcity of water, knowing that scarcity, when I got all 
the wood-work covered with wet blankets, it happened to occur to me, 
there is the gutter ; our water is too precious to have it running to waste, 
and we plugged up the conductors, Avhich turned out fortunately ; they 
held all the water which otherwise would have been wasted, and they 
afterwards dipped some of their blankets in it, and there was a necessity, 
at that time, of the utmost economy of water. Then we went on (or a 
time. I passed from one part of the building to another to see what 
was going on. We had covered all the side windows. They pulled 
down the upper part of the windows and put out the blankets, wetting 
them. At that time those blankets remained without being disturl)ed, 
because the store next to us, and next but one, had not taken fire ; but it 
was very hot on the roof, and the store on the opposite side below the 
Mercantile building was on fire, rolling up flames, and it was coming to 
us over the roofs, and the heat was increasing excessivel}'. One of the 
men came in and said, "We can't stand it ; the heat is too great." 
However, he rushed out again. I remained in the attic for a time, and 
he rushed in and said again, " We are all on fire." When he said that, 
he saw there was a bucket of water there, and he seized it and dashed 
out again and went at it. 

I saw nothing more of these men, except they would come to the 
window and cry " Water," and we were hurrying all the water we could 
to this place. There was a Lutheran window at the end ; opposite was 
the great heat from the building on fire above the Mercantile Lihrar^^'s 
Building. That end Lutheran window has been burned all the w-ay 
along the side and charred by the fire. Water was passed out there, — 



271 



all we could spare — from the next story and ever3-where, and from 
where the forces had been distributed, they were all brought up there. 
The heat was intense. Those fellows stood it and got burned, and 
fought it like heroes. The next roof was lower ; but the one beyond 
was pretty high ; and thoy had to take that fire behind with the heat 
from the other side. Those fellows stood it all. I was not out on the 
roof, although I was first inside, and I can't conceive how they did stand 
it ; they did, however, and they held to it until those roofs fell in, and 
the fire was carried down and turned the corner. I can't tell precisely 
how many men were there. It was an exciting time. I took no note 
of time, nor any special observation, farther than to say, I made the 
round of the building, up and down, to see what we wanted ; and among 
other things, it occurred to me the fire might suqk into the conductors 
and the cold-air boxes, and we might get fire on the floor without know- 
ing why ; and I directed them to shut the windows, which let the draught 
in, to prevent the sparks from coming in through. There might have 
been small sparks drawn in under the floor before you expected it. I 
felt then that we had passed the most dangerous time, but not that we 
were secure ; and I made the remark at the time, " This building is 
worth ninety per cent, to insure, but I think ten per cent, is worth fight- 
ing for." I said this to keep them in good spirits. I went down into 
the next story, and then passed down into a lower floor, having my 
mind relieved in regard to those points, and was passing by the sky- 
light. (The building is recessed about seven feet — seven feet by some 
thirty on that side. In the recess there are three windows in each story 
for the purpose of light. Those windows were all blanketed. On the 
first story there is no recess, it being covered by a sky-light.) I was 
about in the centre of the store, when crash came the wall of the next 
building, and with it came a lot of cinders through the sk3--light, break- 
ing it all in. I chanced to be close to it ; the first floor was all entire 
(that was the width of the building, and light was procured by having 
a recess above, and that is covered by glass). I chanced to be there, 
and it gave me rather a feeling of satisfaction. There was quite a rush 
when this came down. I exclaimed : " No harm is done ; it is all right." 
I knew the fire was there, and thej^ had all to go down, and the sooner 
the better ; and I immediately stationed some men there with buckets 
of water, and what fire was brought in at first was put out. There was 
a great deal of calling still, at the upper part of the building, for water. 
There was only a piece of the wall came down at that time, leavino- 
some height above, and it brought in a good many cinders. A tumbler 
of water would put out a few cinders, and an injunction was given to 
the men, to use no more than was wanted to put it out, and they acted 
on that. 

We took a bucket and put in about a charge, in order not to waste the 
M'ater, and if any cinders came in the men would take it and give them 
a dose — just enough to put them out ; and we kept those cinders down 
very easily. It was arranged that some of the men were to remain 
there. I went up into the fourth story ; the fire was fully upon us in 
this recess, only seven feet off". The next building was all on fire ; the 
men there were defending the windows. They pulled down the top of 
the window a little way, taking wet rags and squeezing the water round 



272 

on the upper part of the wood-work and letting it run down the 
sides. Tlie}^ couldn't hold their hand's out long, it was so hot. Then I 
discovered, what had been overlooked, that there were little slots of 
windows on the side to let light into the building, and also into the ele- 
vator. Those were in the end of the recess. -.A fellow got round there 
and discovered it before I got up there. In fact he told me, " We have 
forgotten those windows on the side." He got round there. The flames 
did not come in through, but a shower of cinders and smoke rolled up 
into this recess. He got a blanket out there, and he would squeeze the 
water round the window and then shove it up again as quick as he 
could. It was impracticable to put a blanket there, because there were 
the cinders coming up. The smoke and cinders were pouring up and it 
was extremely hot there, and the glass was cracked into hundreds of 
squares, but did not fall out. I expected every minute to see the Wood 
on fire there. There was a man stationed there with a bucket of water, 
with directions not to put any water on, because, if he had thrown on 
water, he might have broken a hole in the glass and made it fall out ; he 
was not to put on any water unless the wood took fire. In that case, he 
was to put on just enough to put it out. You cannot make wood burn if 
you keep it a little damp. We had no water to spare. At that point, 
it seemed to me very critical. Then there came a dash of water from a 
hose, which struck the upper part of the window and ran down, and I think 
it was the most refreshing sensation I ever had in my life when tliat 
dash of water came. It struck just over the window and swept down 
over it. The firemen may have seen this point. The stream was fol- 
lowed then by others, and the water struck directly on the windows. It 
Avas all cracked into little pieces at that time, and I expected every mo- 
ment to see it come through, and if it came through, then there would 
be a draught of cinders. There was a parcel of woollen shawls at hand, 
and orders were given not to put any water on, but if the glass was 
broken to clap a shawl up there, wet it, and keep it wet. After a time 
a piece more of wall fell, and then the fire was below us somewhat. At 
the same time, the heat was very intense, although it was lowered. In 
the mean time, we had got to that stage of the business that we had got 
a hose in. It must have come two hundred feet or more from Avon 
place ; then it was up perhaps forty or fifty feet, and we had got a win- 
dow open — the fire was below us, and the firemen put the nozzle of the 
hose out and pointed upon it. I don't know how far ofi" the engine was 
to which it was attached. The heat was so great, I feared we could not 
stand it. The firemen cried out, " Play away, No. 2 ! " and we got more 
and more anxious, but the hose did not fill. Then it passed mj mind, 
I don't know that we can stand this five minutes longer ; certainly not 
ten, and as I looked down to the hose I saw the water coming in, and it 
began to swell and there went a good stream out of it, and I felt we 
were safe. We weathered it. I would not have given ten percent, then to 
insure the store. I went down stairs and found another piece of the 
wall had fallen and brought in some quantity of cinders, and we dashed 
on the water in the buclvets until we put it out. We put it out pretty 
quick, and rigged up a staging, so a fellow could stand on it and reach 
round the edges of this skylight, which kept taking fire, and put it out. 
He dashed on a few buckets and got it pretty well wet there. The cin- 



273 

ders kept pouring in, and there wgs a man passing water up from down 
in the basement, and it was passed up from the counter to this place that 
was raised up on the little staging, and after dashing on a few buckets 
he got it pretty well wet around the floor. Another precaution to save 
water was this. Three or four cinders would come in, and the order 
was given, "Don't put any water on," — because it had got very wet 
round the floor. I should tliink four out of five went out of themselves, 
so we could use our water for the fifth. When one began to blaze around 
it, we gave it a dash of water and it was all over. 

Q You were not there Sunday night? 

A. Yes, sir. I went home by daylight both mornings. 

Q. Can you tell us whether there was any water thrown from the de- 
partment on to your roof before the next building took fire? 

A. I don't think there was any water thrown or any firemen in there, 
but I will say this : of course I should have liked to have had it myself, 
but I felt we were not to depend on outside help, and my experience of 
that night is, I believe you can save a building from the inside, econo- 
mizing your force and using it with discretion, a great deal better than 
by dashing water on the outside. I looked out from up there in the 
roof, and I saw this great fire coming on. I don't know whether the Fire 
Department did their duty or did not, but people have made these 
remarks to me : " They ought to have done this, that and the other." I 
say there is one thing I agree would have been better, if such a thing 
could be practicable ; it is important on certain occasions to be able 
to raise your water. You cannot throw it from the street to be of 
any effect. It becomes mere spray before it gets up. There ought to be 
some mode of carrying the hose up as it was into my fourth story. 
There we got as much force as we wanted. Then I want to say one 
word about the buildings, as the result of my observation of the fire. 
There is a good deal of talk about the Mansard roofs. I think there is 
too much wood put upon them. I have been astonished that the city 
would allow such buildings, as some'of them are, to be erected. There is 
one at the corner of Water street and Devonshire, which is thirty to 
forty feet high of wood-work, — simply wood-work, trimmed with wood. 
If that gets on fire, it will be a great bonfire in the air. That always 
struck me as a dangerous building. My observation was a little curious 
that night. Perhaps you may have seen a little card I put in the paper. 
I felt grateful to those fellows that fought for me. That, and the roof of 
the Mercantile Building, saved my building. 

Q. What was that covered with? 

A. It is a composition roof, — a gravel and tar roof; something of 
•that sort. 

Q. You got your men pretty well disciplined in the latter part of the fire ? 

A. They behaved like heroes in the beginning. There were a good . 
many of them, and they were ready men. If they had any idea that 
was practicable, they took hold of it readily. I want to say, also, that I 
regard woollen blankets, wet as these were, as one of the best means of 
protecting a building ; I regard woollen as a non-conductor, and wood 
also, if green or kept wet. I believe that the tire could have been 
stopped by sheathing the buildings with wood and keeping it wet. It 
will not burn as long as it is kept damp. 
18 



274 



WILLIAM ENDICOTT, Jr., sworn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) On Sunday night, Avhat time did you get to 
the fire ? 

A. 1 was there all Sunday night. We had about twenty of our clerks 
remaining there, in case anything should turn up, and I stayed in charge. 

Q. At what time was the alarm? 

A. I should say about one o'clock. 

Q. What was the first you heard ? 

A. 1 had been on the roof several times, looking about. About eleven 
o'clock, I went up for my wife. I thought she would never have a better 
opportunity of seeing a fire than there. She came down and went up 
with me, and then I went home with her, and got back about twelve 
o'clock, and heard those explosions. I supposed they were blowing up 
buildings. Suddenly, it exploded next door to us, and then, in a few 
minutes, on the opposite side of Summer street. Then I should think 
there were half-a-dozen explosions on that side of the street, between 
that point and Lovejoy's store. That was a verj^ heavy explosion ; it threw 
out the front wall. The front and side wall were standing, and this 
explosion threw the front wall out into the street. I ran to the front 
window to see what the matter was, and got there in a moment or two, 
just in time to see that young woman jump out of the window of the 
store opposite. There was a line of flame running across Summer street 
to the opposite side of the street — a straight line almost across the street. 
The building she was in was all in flames, which were bursting out ap- 
parently in several stories. She jumped from the second-story window, 
and I heard at the same time several voices in the building, saying, 
" Save us ! save us, for God sake !" and the firemen brought a ladder 
and put it up ; but they were, apparently, unable to reach where they 
wanted to go. I had to look out for our building, and went back. I 
asked a soldier on guard if they got them out, and he said, " No, they 
went up on the roof. If they had stayed at the windows they could 
have reached them, but they went up on the roof, where they could not 
reach them." So I suppose there were two ])ersons burned in this build- 
ing ; one was the mother of this young woman, and there must have 
been another, because they used the plural. Then I went back ; but a 
moment before I came back the building next to it flamed up. I suppose 
the gas spread over those two buildings, and they flamed up instantly, 
and there was no tiine at all to escape from them. I thought we might 
have the same thing in our own store, and it was not safe to stay there, 
and I went up and told the men to come out. AVe took them all out of 
the building, and we cleared the inside safe. Then three of us weut 
down cellar and shut oflT the gas. We have four large meters. There 
was a pretty strong smell of gas in the basement. I think the concus- 
sion in the neighborhood had shaken our pipes and they were leaking. 
We had three boiler fires, and I was afraid if we went off' and left it our 
store would blow up. I made up ni}^ mind that we would leave it secure, 
and got all the men together, turned off the gas, and quit. 

Q. Did you take a light with you when j'ou went to shut off the gas? 

A. Yes, sir ; we had to have a light to see to do anything. It took a 



275 



hammei* and a wrench. I went up to the gas-office and told thera they 
ought to shut the gas off from the whole city ; that it was explodino- in 
all sections of the city. That was about one o'clock. At that time, those 
two buildings were all in flames, — the two I spoke of. The}^ said they 
had just sent some man out to do that very thing. I went up to the 
house and reported that I was not killed, and then went back. Shreve's 
store was prettj^ well on fire. I noticed the gas-lights were all out on 
West street and Bedford, so I supposed they had shut the gas off, and I 
went into the store and stayed there. 

Q. Did you fight the fire much from your building? 

A. Yes, sir ; the flame Avas very hot. The wind kept shifting ; one 
moment it would blow on to our building, and the next moment the other 
way. I suppose it was a current of air made by the fire. 

Q. Did you fight it with wet blankets ? 

A. Yes, sir. John Hall, of the Quincy Fire Department, was very 
efficient. He was there both nights. 

Q. He is one of your regular clerks? 

A. Yes, sir. We prepared all the windows just as they had been the 
night before, and also the roof, and got water up into the store all ready 
for it. 

Q. It was the other side of the store ? 

A. Yes, sir. We put a couple of men on the roof of the Avon street 
building, and sent three buckets of water there. I find a little water at 
the right moment is as efficacious as a good deal a little later. When we 
had the fire at the theatre, it burned out six of our windows, and the only 
way we kept it out was by being on hand. We had men with buckets of 
water and tumblers, and when the sash took fire, they put on water with 
a tumbler. I think the Fire Department did good service Monday 
morning. They worked well between our store and the corner. 

Q. Did you see efforts made like yours by any of your neighbors ? 

A. No, sir. I remarked that night that the buildings between us and 
the fire seemed to be deserted ; there was nobody on the roof. They were 
on Jordan's, but the other buildings seemed to be deserted. 

Q. You had your gas burning up to the time of the explosion? 

A. No, sir ; we had a lot of lanterns. 

Q. What led you to use lanterns ; on the ground of safety? 

A. Yes, sir ; we thought it might not be safe to have gas there. 

Q. You didn't shut off your main? 

A. No, sir. I suppose the explosion of the gas was in the sewers. 
That night I supposed it was in the pipes, but I know it must have at- 
mospheric air mixed with it, and I suppose it was in the sewers. The 
bricks were thrown up in two places in our cellar on the drain, showing 
that the explosion was in the drain, and I supposed from that explosion 
the gas worked along in the sewers, and in running across the street, I 
suppose it must have been the connection with the main sewers from those 
buildings on each side. I suppose the flame went across in those drains. 
The explosions were apparently simultaneous. I went to the window 
immediately, as soon as I could, and when I got there, the building on 
the opposite side was all in flames. There was no perceptible difference 
in time, apparently. 



276 



LEWIS L. SOLOMON, sworn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Wliere were you Avhcn you saw the fire? 

A. Corner of Winter and Washington streets. 

Q. What time was that? 

A. About from ten to fifteen minutes past seven. 

Q. Did you look at a watch? 

A. I left at five minutes past seven, and it would not take me more 
than that time to walk up. 

Q. Did you go to the fire immediately ? 

A. I walked right down to the building. 

Q. Did you hear the fire-alarm? 

A. It had not been given when I got there ; nor for some time after- 
ward. 

Q. How long after you got there? 

A. About five minutes. 

Q. In what condition was the fire when you got there? 

A. The roof was all smoking. 

Q. Was the fire in any of the stories ? 

A. The building was high, and I was on the opposite corner. I could 
not see any fire, if there was any, up above. After I had been there a 
few moments, a gentleman directed my attention to the basement, and 
looking at it, I saw the fire in there. 

Q. How soon after the fire-alarm did any engines come, or hose? 

A. The hose came first and the hook-and-ladder next. 

Q. How soon did the hose come ? 

A. I should say fifteen minutes after the alarm, — from fifteen to 
twenty. 

Q. Did you time it by a watch? 

A. I didn't think it was necessary. I thought it was that time. I 
didn't think it of any importance to take note of it. The building ad- 
joining seemed to be at the same time all lit up. That might have been 
from the hatchway burning. I didn't go down to it. 

Adjourned. 



277 



SEVENTH DAT. 

Saturday, Dec. 7. 
WILLIAM BLANEY, sivorn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Were you Engineer of the building that 
burned first at the great fire ? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. How long had you been such? 

A. A little over two years in that building — two j^ears last August. 

Q. What time did you leave the building on the night in question ? 

A. About twenty or twenty -five minutes past five. 

Q. In what condition did 3'ou leave the boiler? 

A. With the fire down low and the doors shut top and bottom, — that 
is, the top doors were probably open an inch. I always burn the fire 
down very low. The bottom doors were shut close. 

Q. How much steam on? 

A. Ten or fifteen pounds. 

Q. What is the full ordinary amount? 

A. I carry fifty-five. It is insured for sixty-five, but I never carried 
it higher than fifty-five. 

Q. Was there any way in which the fire could communicate from that 
boiler? . 

A. No, sir, not any way at all. 

Q. Have you any theory as to how the fire took ? 

A. I have not. 

Q. Who employed j^ou ? 

A. Mr. Klous. 

Q. How often did you draw your fire ? 

A. It was every Monday morning. I never hauled fire Saturday'- 
night. 

Q. Of course, you did not haul it this night? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. When was the last time you hauled it? 

A, The week before the fire, Monday morning. I let the fire I have iu 
remain until Monday morning, and then I haul it out. 

Q. Do you generally find much there Monday morning? 

A. Oh, no, sir ; the fire is all out entirely. 

Q. What is the power of 3^ our engine ? 

A. It is about twelve horse power, 

Q. About what amount of coal did you consume per day? 

A. Well, I burned about seven or eight hundred pounds a da}'. 

Q. What were 3'our hours of running? 

A. I used to get there in cold weather about six o'clock in the morn- 
ing. In the summer season, I didn't get there till eight o'clock in 
the morning. 

Q. How late did you run ? 



278 

A. I used o get through sometimes at five, and sometimes at half- 
past five, and sometimes at six, according as their business was in the 
store, 

Q. Did you have more than one boiler? 

A. That was all. 

Q. Did that heat the whole building? 

A. Yes, sir. We heated by direct steam. 

Q. What experience did you have before you went there ? 

A. I had been in that business for about twelve or thirteen years. 

Q. Who did you run for last before you went to this place ? 

A. Down in Connecticut. 

Q. Where before that? 

A. No particular place, only I was over in the Navy Yard. I had 
charge of all the steam-piping there. It was in 1861-'62, and 1863. 

Q. Who was in cliarge of the Navy Yard ? 

A. Admiral Stringham was there and Commodore Hudson, when I 
was there. 

Q. Do you know how this elevator was lined ? 

A. It was sheathed up with spruce, I am sure of that. 

Q. That was inside? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Was there any brick partition between the fire-room and the 
engine ? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Were there any openings in it? 

A. Yes, sir, there was a window in it exactly opposite the engine and 
boiler. The engine stood between the boiler and the elevator. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) Had you ever had any doubts about the safety 
as regards fire ? 

A. No, sir, I never did, I used to leave ever3'thing all straight. 

Q. Had any painters been at work in that neighborhood? 

A. No, sir, not to my knowledge. 

Q. Did you hear anybody express any doubts about the safety of the 
elevator as regards fire? 

A. No, sir, I never did. 

Q. In going for fuel, did j^ou pass through the room where they kept 
the dry-goods boxes? 

A. No, sir, my coal bunker was out under the street. I wheeled my 
coal through the engine-room into the fire-room. It is just an open 
space. 

Q. Then j^ou passed by the elevator with 3'^our wheelbarrow ? 

A. Yes, sir, right through the little entry. 

Q. What did you kindle your fires with? 

A. Broken cases that I picked up in the building. 

Q. Where were those kept? 

A. All they made down stairs they used to give me. Tebbetts, Bald- 
win & Company's folks, and Young's folks, kept theirs up in the upper 
loft of all. 

Q. When did 3'ou do your breaking up of boxes? 

A. Any time when they fetched them to me. They were old broken 
boxes. I used to keep them on hand till I wanted them. I would keep 



279 

the broken pieces in between the boiler and the basement partition. 
There was a passage-way around the boiler, — between the boiler and 
the partition that partitioned off the basement floor from the boiler-room. 
It was a wooden partition, nothing but common sheathing for a space 
about two and a half feet wide. 

Q. AVas there kindling there at that time? 

A. I had just about enough to kindle my fire Monday morning. 

Q. Was it usual for 3'ou to leave that kindling there? 

A. I alwa3^s had left it there. 

Q. The fire was no more than usual. 

A. There was very little fire. I presume they will find the same in the 
boiler now when they dig down to it. There was very little fire in the 
furnace. 

Q, Is it a horizontal boiler ? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Do you know who the private watchman was ? 

A. No, sir, I do not. The private watchman was outside the .build- 
ing. There was no watchman in the building at all, only outside. 

Q. Who hired that watchman beside the occupants of this building? 

A. As I understand it, the different firms of the several buildings. 
He had a beat all around that neio;hborhood. 



JAMES QUIRK, sworn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) What is your occupation? 

A. 1 am the porter of George W. Carnes & Co., Nos. 43 & 45 Sum- 
mer street. 

Q. Did you see any proofs of the firemen's not doing their duty ? 

A. It may be bad judgment on my part in thinking so, and it may not. 
I will tell you what I saw. I was on the roof of our building with Mr. 
Carnes, in company with a gentleman named Mr. Gookin, and for an 
hour or so thej^ run up a line of hose on the roof which formed the Post 
Office building. There were quite a number that came up there that 
didn't appear to have anything to do, and they went down through our 
store. I started down after them, because I thought they looked as 
though they were looking for what they might find Ijung around. 
Finally, thej' got to going up and down there, and they didn't take any 
more interest in the fire than if they didn't belong to the department. 

Q. Do you know whether they did belong to it? 

A. No more than that they had fire hats on and appeared to be fire- 
men. I don't know whether they were Boston men or not. 

Q. Of course you don't know what company they belonged to? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. Did you see them doing anything besides that? 

A. No, sir. There was a man who said he was sent there by one of 
the Engineers to see that nobody but firemen went up and down there. 
There was quite a number that went down there. After they had been 
into Clapp, Evans & Co's store, they brought in some rubber goods and 
laid them down b^^ the side of our door, and asked this man to look out 
for them, and then they went back and got some more, I thought. 



280 



Q. (By Mr. Firth.) "Were they firemen that brought in the rubber 
goods? 

A. Yes, sir. It was from Clapp, Evans & Go's. 

Q. AVas that store burning at the time? 

A. Yes, sir. It was just catching in the rear. I could see the light 
of it from our door-way. I Avas standing in our door-way and looking 
over. 

Q. Was there anything else that you noticed ? 

^1. No, sir, nothing in particular.' 



Adjourned to Monday afternoon, Dec. 9th. 



281 



EIGHTH DAY. 

Monday, Dec. 9, 1872. 

GEORGE P. BALDWIN, recalled. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) What was the amount of insurance on your 
stock ? 

A. The sum total of insurance amounted to $172,000, S4 7,000 of 
which was upon the package-stock (stock in the loft), and $125, OQO upon 
our open stock. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) On what floor was the open stock? 

A. It was upon the first floor and in the basement. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) What was the value of the stock? 

A. The net value of the stock in the package-room, that is, the upper 
floor, according to our books, was $36,000 ; and upon the lower floor 
and basement, between $131,000 and $132,000, according to the show- 
ing on our books. That is what our merchandise account calls for^ 
making it up on a cash basis. 

Q. How long a lease had j'ou? 

A. Our lease expired on the first day of Januar^^, 1873. 

Q. Did 3'ou intend to. continue in that same place? 

A. No, sir. I think the store was rented the very day of the fire 
to the firm of Burr Brothers. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) Was the boiler covered with an iron shell, 
or was it covered with brick? 

A. The boiler was cased in brick, 

Q. You couldn't see any part of the boiler except the brick-work? 

A. That was all. 

Q. Could you pass round it here [referring to the plan] ? 

A. Yes, sir ; there was a space between that partition and the boiler ; 
also, on the end. 

Q. That side is against the partj^-wall, isn't it? 

A. Y''es, sir ; the probability is that there was no means of passage- 
there ; but here there was a passage across the ends, and on the side. 

Q. That was a wooden partition, was it? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Leaving a passage for fuel to come in there? 

A. Y'es, sir. 

Q. Do you recollect what kind of a floor there was in that passage ? 

A. I think it was a wooden floor outside. I think that below was a 
brick floor ; you step down here into the engine-room. 

Q. Was that passage-way all open to the engine-room ? 

A. There was no partition, except as shown on the plan. 



282 



FEEDERICK S. WRIGHT, sivorn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Where do j^ou live? 

^1. South Boston. 

Q. When did you first see the fire? 

A. I saw the fire before the alarm struck. 

Q. Where were you ? 

A. I was in my store, corner of East and Federal streets. 

Q. What time was it? 

A. I should say it was somewhere in the neighborhood of half-past 
seven ; I can't say exactly. 

Q. Where did 3'ou see the fire? 

A. My boys halloed " Fire," and I went out, and could see the light 
of it from the corner of East and Federal streets. 
II Q. How long after that did you hear the fire-alarm? 
f: A. I went up to the engine-house and tooiv hold of the hose-carriage, 
and helped them up there, and we were at the corner of Essex and Lin- 
coln-streets — say three minutes — when I heard the alarm. Wheii we 
got there, some of them left, and went and got the engine. 

Q. Where is that engine-house ? 

A. In East street. 

Q. You didn't look at any watch or clock, I suppose? . 

A. No, sir ; I didn't have any time. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) You say you got there in about three minutes? 

A. In about three minutes. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) You didn't notice the time when you saw the 
fire? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) It shone very brightly, did it? 

A. It did. I thought it Avas some wooden building in Essex street. 
I have belonged to the department some twenty-two yeai's, and felt in- 
terested to get up there. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) Are 5^ou a member now? 

A. Yes, sir; foreman of Engine 1. 

Q. Did the hose-carriage go to work as soon as you got there ? 

A. Yes, sir ; I took the pipe and put a stream on the fire. 

Q. About what time was it you got the first water on? 

A. Within two minutes after the bell struck first. 

Q. Where did you play the water first? 

A. Into the basement. The basement was full of fire, and it was 
going up a large elevator. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) Was there any fire above the basement? 
• A. Yes, sir, all the way up into the roof. 

Q. It was so when you arrived ? 

A. Yes, sir, it was coming out of every window clear into the roof. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) How long after you got there did the engine 
arr ve ? 

A. I should say about five minutes. 

Q. What engine was it? 



283 

A. No. 7. Part of the men dropped off when we got to the corner of 
Essex and Lincoln streets, and went for the engine. 

Q. Where did that engine go to work? 

A. She went to the corner of Lincoln and Bedford streets. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) Was there any delay in getting steam up ? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) Did you see the Chief? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. About what time did he get there? 

A. ' I don't know what time he got there, but as soon as I was relieved 
by the regular hose-men who belonged to that company, I went in front 
of the building, and saw the Chief there. I asked him if I should go to 
South Boston and get my engine. I should say it was some fifteen or 
twenty minutes. He told me to go and tell all I saw to come right 
along. I didn't see him again till about one o'clock. 

Q. How did the Chief appear ? 

A. As he always does. 

Q. Level-headed? 

A. Yes, sir, just as much as we are. 

Q. Did you see the fire when it crossed Summer street? 

A. No, sir, I was at work in the rear. 



JOSEPH A. LAFORME, sworn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Will you tell us what you know about the 
fire? 

A. Well, I was at the Union Institution for Savings that evening on 
a committee matter, and at a quarter past seven, or very near that time, 
at least, because I remember looking at my watch just before the alarm 
was given, and I should say it was about quarter-past seven that we 
heard the cry of " Fire " outside. Mr. Wm. O'Brien, of Jordan, Marsh, 
& Go's, Avas with me, and we went out and found the fire was at the 
corner of Kingston street, and was burning quite fiercely. When we 
got there, we found there was quite a crowd on Kingston street, already, 
so we didn't attempt to go that way ; we went round through Bedford 
street, and walked along slowly, watching the fire as we went, and 
went round by Church Green corner into Summer street. When we got 
up nearly to Kingston street, we saw a ladder going up against the 
burning building. At that time, there was no fire on the front ; the fire 
was all in the rear. The ladder was just going up on the front of the 
building on Summer street, as we passed there, — a long ladder as high 
as the building, — and we hadn't got more than across Otis street, when 
the flames burst out from tlie two upper stories in front. I should say 
that it was then about half-past seven. I calculated that it took us 
about fifteen minutes, the way we were walking, and stopping to look 
at the fire, to get round there. Then it was burning very fiercely from 
the two upper stories, and very soon the whole building was in flames. 
What became of the ladder I don't know. 

Q. What time should j'ou say the fire-alarm was struck? 

A. That I can't say. I couldn't have heard it if I had paid attention 



'284 

to it, because there was considerable noise there, and I sliouldn't have 
noticed it. I went out on the cry of fire. We had a committee meeting 
at eight o'clock. We looked at our watches, and saw it was quarter-past 
seven, when we heard the cry of " Fire." 

Q. Was there anythhig else? 

A. Then in a very few moments the fire broke out of the front of the 
building on Summer street. It burned very fiercely, the flames extended 
way up into the air, and the heat was very iutense. The flame seemed 
to sweep across Summer street, and very soon the building on the corner 
of Otis street was on fire up in the Mansard roof. It didn't burn very 
fast in the beginning, but it caught fire, and I remarked then to the friend 
who was with me, that I didn't see why no attempt was made to put out 
the fire on the corner of Otis street ; that there was great danger of its 
extending down the block, with all those Mansard roofs. I was there 
until probably five minutes of eight. I should think that the building on 
the corner of Otis street commenced to burn probably about twenty min- 
utes of eight. I looked at my watch at a quarter of eight ; as I was going 
to the meeting, I wanted to be on time. I looked at my watch at about 
quarter of eight, so far as my recollection serves me now, and the Man- 
sard roof was already burning then, slightly. 

Q. Was any attempt made at that time to stop the fire? 

A. Not the slightest that I could see on Otis street. I think the engines 
were playing on the rear of the building in Kingston street. I saw one 
engine come while I was there ; that came along just about the time I saw 
this ladder going up, I should sa}-^ about half-past seven. That engine 
came down Summer street, drawn by hand-power, and was the only engine 
I saw, although I understand there were other engines in the rear of the 
fire, but I didn't see them, as they came from the other direction. The 
only one I saw came down Summer street about half-past seven, drawn 
by hand-power, and that was stationed at the corner of Arch street, and 
while I was looking at the fire, about quarter of eight, I remember I got 
a clucking from the engine. 

Q. Where did that play? 

A. It played on the fire in the main building, on the corner of King- 
ston street. I saw no attempt made whatever to put out the fire on the 
corner of Otis street while I was there, and I was there until five min- 
utes of eight ; then I left and went to the supper, and went back about 
nine o'clock. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobr.) Did you see the Chief Engineer? 

A. No, sir. I shouldn't have known him, if I had seen him. I don't 
know him by sight. 

Q. Did you see any Engineer who seemed to have charge? 

A. No, sir. I was looking at the fire, rather than for Engineers. They 
might have been there, and I not have noticed them. It struck me at the 
time as strange that no attempt was made to put out that fire in the French 
roof on the corner of Otis street, and it was remarked by several people 
around me that it was very strange that the firemen made no attemi)t to 
put that out. That was reall}^ to my mind, the cause of the extension of 
the fire, — the fact of the fire getting into that corner. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbricic.) Did you look down Otis street to see if there 
were any engines there ? 



285 



A. I looked down, but saw none. I looked down as I went alons:. 

Q. And Winthrop square? 

A. I saw none there ; thej^ might have been there, but I didn't see 
them. The fact is, from the time I passed the building, when that lad- 
der was going up, until I left, at five minutes of eight, I stood between 
Otis street and Arch street. There might have been engines all around 
without my seeing them. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) You saw no water thrown on that building? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. No ladder put up? 

A. No ladder put up. I saw no attempt made. It seemed apparent 
that no attempt was being made to put it out, and that struck me as 
rather strange ; in fact, so far as I could judge, the engines seemed to 
be trying to prevent the extension of the fire in the rear of the building 
where it caught. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) Did you see it spread down Summer street? 

A. I saw it spread after nine o'clock. 

Q. I mean, before j^ou left? 

A. No, not before I left. I.only saw this building on the corner of 
Otis street burning, without any attempt to put it out. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) How far was it under way when you left? 

A. The French roof was burning very hard, but not so hard but that 
I sliould think it might have been put out very easily if they had had the 
water there, when I left. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) Could anybody operate in front of that 
building, in that heat? 

A. I should say not, because then the other building on the corner of 
Kingston street was burning very fiercely. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) Had that fallen in? 

A. It hadn't when the other building caught fire. The building on the 
corner of Otis street caught fire before the Kingston-street building fell 
in. It fell in before I left. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) What would have been your idea of attacking 
the fire when it was so hot there ? 

A. It seemed to me that the moment they found the opposite building 
was in danger, they should have got the hose up through the building. 



CHARLES E. POWERS, siuorn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) What do you know about this fire ? 

A. Well, I was not aware that I knew enough about it to give any- 
thing to this commission, but, for the first time in my life, I was at a fire 
pretty early. 

Q. How early ? 

A- I should say about twenty-five minutes past seven. 

Q. Where were you when you saw the fire? 

A. I think the first fire-alai-m had been given ; I don't know as they had 
got entirely through with the first alarm ; I am inclined to think not ; at all 
events, I had procured tickets for the Globe Theatre that evening, and 
was intending to be there at half-past seven, at the time the per- 



286 



formance was advertised to commence. The fire was right in the imme- 
diate neighborhood of the Globe Theatre, and I approached it from Es- 
sex street and Kingston, and I thinlc I toolc a position first, right 
at the corner of Bedford and Kingston streets. The large building was 
on fire on the right-hand side of Kingston street, in the direction in which 
I was looking, and one engine, I think, had arrived when I got there, — 
perhaps it was a little before me, — and they were getting up steam, and 
I am inclined to think were able soon to throw a stream of water. I no- 
ticed particularly, that there was no coal in the neighborhood, and as 
soon as they got steam sufficient to blow the whistle, that was done 
most vigorously ; still, no coal arrived, and one after another engine came 
up. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) Where did that first engine locate? 

A. Just about upon the corner of Bedford and Kingston streets ; a lit- 
tle in Kingston street, I think. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) What did they burn? 

A. I think it was, at first, nothing more than the kindling that they 
carried with the engine ; perhaps there might have been a very little 
coal, but I didn't see any at all. The ^cond engine arrived soon after, 
drawn by men. I saw no horses" at all, until about the time I left, which 
I think was about nine o'clock. The second engine, after they got up 
steam, immediately commenced blowing the whistle. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) Where did they locate ? 

A. Somewhere to the right of the first engine, and about, I should 
think, across Bedford street. 

Q. On the same corner? 

A. Yes, sir ; a little in the rear of the first one. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Did you see what they were burning ? 

A. The}^ had kindlings, I think, at first. I saw no coal at all. The 
first I saw of any appearance of coal was some little time after, and then 
the first load of coal, I think, came, drawn by four or five men, in a light 
express-wagon. The coal was at once unloaded in the street, and it was 
immediately put in the furnace of the engine, and was almost imme- 
diately consumed. At once they commenced blowing the whistle for more 
coal. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) What time did that coal arrive? 

A. It is impossible for me to say. I was very much surprised to find 
it was nine o'clock when I looked at my watch. I had no idea of it. I 
didn't suppose we had been standing there more than half an hour. It 
would be utterly impossible for me to form any idea of time. I was 
very intently engaged in watching the flames, for there were four or five 
dwelling-houses immediately opposite, or nearly so, and when I saw the 
flames, I had some little solicitude to know what would be the effect 
upon those buildings. I saw the people in them. While I stood there, 
the large stone warehouse or building caught fire, and was nearly con- 
sumed while I was there, and one of the dwelling-houses this side caught 
fire. There was a third engine arrived that was drawn by men, and 
there might have been a fourth, drawn in the same way ; and in the 
mean time, some two or three hook-and-ladder companies had arrived. 
They were drawn by quite a large number of men, but I didn't see that 



287 

they were of any use at all. I don't know that it was necessarjf that 
they should be used. 

Q. (B3' Mr. Cobb.) Did you see any hose-carriage when you first 
got on the ground ? 

A. Yes, sir, I think there were one or two hose-carriages there, at 
least. I was informed while there, that the engines had suspended play- 
ing^ but that I don't say of my own knowledge. I have that from liear- 
sa}'. I know they were very clamorous for coal ; but at the time I left, 
they were doing very good service indeed. They had succeeded in ex- 
tinguishing the fire in the dwelling-houses, I think wholly, before I left, 
and were making pretty rapid progress towards extinguishing the fire in 
this large stone building, which was a new warehouse, I should say. I 
don't think it was occupied or ever had been. That was the only di- 
rection in which I saw the fire, and I naturally inferred from the fact 
that it was being suppressed there, that it was being suppressed on all 
sides. I left and went to tbe theatre, about nine o'clock, or quarter past 
nine, and had every hope and expectation that the fire would be entirely 
put out, and was very much amazed when I emerged from the theatre to 
find the wliole of Boston in flames, or that part of it, certainly. My house- 
hold furniture was stored in a building on High street. I thought of 
that at the time, but receiving the impression that the fire was being 
subdued everywhere, I had no anxiety in reference to that. That was 
all destroyed. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) You don't know what engines those were 
which you saw first? 

A. I can't describe them. 

Q. Were you near enough to see, had they had any coal? 

A. I was, I should say, witliin fifty feet of the first one ; and as the 
crowd commenced to increase, I didn't care to get wedged in at all, and 
moved back all the while, until finally I was back some five or six hundred 
feet from Bedford street. I didn't see any coal, and I looked, I know, 
for coal, because I was wondering what thej' were whistling for; it was 
something new to me, and I inquired what it meant, and was told by 
parties in the crowd that they were out of coal. I looked very sharply 
for coal, and didn't see any. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) Did the engines stop while you were watching 
them for want of coal ? 

A. I was told that the}'- were stopped, but the stream of water was at 
such a distance from me that it would be impossible for me to tell 
whether the water was forced from the engine there or not ; a consider- 
able portion of the time I saw no stream at all ; part of the time I did. 

Q. Was the machinery going all the time? 

A. At one time the engines were going, and were doubtless throwing 
water; and then again, when they coujmenced to whistle for coal, no 
coal a[)pearing, the engine seemeil to cease that vigorous movement that 
is always observable by a stranger ; but the machinery was movino" 
slowly. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) Then they did not actually stop at any time? 

A. I don't think the machiner}'- stopped, but I certainly don't think it 
was going fast enough to throw any water at the time ; that is all that I 
know about it. 



288 

Q. (By Mr. Piiilbrick.) Was tliat whistling for coal commenced 
immediately alter they began to work? 

A. Almost immediately. I know I was considerably surprised that 
apparent!}' there was no provision made for coaling these steamers, and 
I A'ery naturally expected — I know it came across my mind at the time 
— that the firemen, or somebody connected with the engines, would try 
to procure coal from some locality or other. It occurred to me that 
they might get it from the houses, or some of the stores in the neighbor- 
hood ; but I saw no moA'ement of that kind ; all I heard was the whistle ; 
and after some time, some number of minutes, the first load of coal ar- 
rived, in a light express wagon. I shouldn't suppose there was more 
than a ton of coal in the Avagon at that time, perhaps not so much. 
That wagon was drawn by five or six men ; the second load, which came 
afterwards, was considerable of a load. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) How much delay should you judge there 
was in waiting for coal? How many minutes did the engines cease 
their vigorous action? 

A. Well, I should say twenty-five minutes ; of course, that must be 
taken with some considerable allowance. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) Not by your watch ? 

A. No, I didn't look at my watch until just before I left, and I was 
very much surprised to see that it was very nearly nine o'clock. Cer- 
tainly, time passed there very rapidly indeed. 

Q. (By Mr. Piiilbrick.) Did you notice that after that period of 
waiting, say twenty-five minutes, they acted more vigorous!}'? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) There was a perceptible difference? 

A. Yes, sir. Well, the fire was increasing very rapidly ; the building 
on the opposite side of the street had taken fire, and this four or five-* 
story building was completely on fire ; and fire had broken out in the 
first dwelling-house next to this large building, so that the blinds were 
ou fire, and I should think the frame-work of the windows was on fire, 
and part of the roof, and the fire seemed to be increasing until after the 
second load of coal arrived ; then the firen^en, I think, suppressed it 
entirely ; that is, the fire on Kingston street. 

Q. (By Mr. Fikth.) When you first came in sight of the building 
where the fire originated, in what part did the fire show itself? 

A. The top of the building was on fire, and the flames were bursting 
out of the two upper story windows. 

Q. Where you stood, could 3'ou see the basement? 

A. Yes, sir. There was no fire in the basement that I could see at 
all. The greater body of the flame was coming out of the upper story 
windows. 

Q. Do you remember observing about the basement? 

A. Well, my attention wasn't called particularly to it, certainly ; I 
saw no fire there at all. My impression is, that I saw men at work at 
the basement. After I came out of the theatre, I went almost immedi- 
ately to the same locality where I before stood, for the purpose of seeing 
whether the fire had gone any further in that direction, and it had not ; 
it had made no advance whatever from the time I left. 

Q. (By Mr, Philbrick.) Did you go round towards High street? 



289 

A. Afterwards I walked round in that direction, but I found I couldn't 
get to the place where my furniture was stored. I made up my mind 
then that it was gone, which proved to be the case. I went down to the 
United States Hotel, and went up that street, I think it was Lincoln 
street, as far as I could go. 

JOSEPH FRYE, 8v:orn. 

Q. (B}^ Mr. Russell.) What time did you see this fire of Nov. 9th? 

A. I saw it soon after it broke out. I was at a distance from it, 
where I was. 

Q. Where were j^ou? 

A. I was in Washington Village, South Boston. 

Q. Will you tell us what time it was, as nearly as you can? 

A. I should suppose it was somewhere in the vicinity of seven or 
seven and a half o'clock when the first alarm sprung in. I saw it then, 
when the alarm was given. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) You did not see it before the fire-alarm was 
given ? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Did you come in? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Were you ever connected with the Fire Department? 

A. Yes, sir. I am an old settler in the Fire Department. 

Q. How long were you a member of the Fire Department? 

A. Something like thirty years. 

Q. How long since j'ou have been connected with it? 

A. One year this January. 

Q. Where did you come when 3'ou came in to the fire? 

A. I put myself in the vicinity where I had some valuable property, 
in Federal street, — the carriage bazaar. 

Q. Did you stay there until that was burnt? 

A. I stayed there until the wall fell in and covered the whole ma- 
chine. 

Q. How was that fire managed and fought, as far as you saw ? 

A. Well, sir, I don't know that I could say that I would be competent 
to pass an opinion ; it was one of the first times in my life that I was 
ever a spectator at a fire. I have always been a workman, and when I 
was at my business I never saw what was going on outside of me. I 
made the remark once or twice during that fire, that that was the first 
time for many 3'ears, — since I was a boy, — that I was a spectator. I 
may not be so well able to judge. In fact, I was not in the working 
district of the Fire Department. They were in Summer street .at that 
time. There was no protection at that time in Federal street or in Con- 
gress street, when I was there. 

Q. You mean, nothing was done? 

A. There was no apparatus in that section. The fire was making its 
own headway, without hindrance. 

Q. In what streets? 

A. In Federal street, until it crossed into Congress street, and from 
19 



290 

there into Pearl street. I was there when it crossed over the three 
streets. 

Q. The fire had its own vfay? 

A. Yes, sir ; it was beyond the power of any man to have said what 
should be done. 

Q. (B}^ Mr. Philbrick.) Did it sweep through that district very 
rapidly ? 

A. Yes, sir ; it went like a tornado. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) Did you notice the wind ? 

A. Yes, sir ; it created a wind. 

Q. (B}^ Mr. Russell.) Whether it was going with the wind? 

A. Yes, sir, it was going with the wind, but there was a phenomenon 
that was rather peculiar about the wind. When we got down to Broad 
street, we took the wind to be blowing strongly from the eastward ; so 
much so, that it took my hat off. As we looked up above, we saw that 
the current was exactly as we supposed it was, from the westward ; the 
rarification of the air was such that it created an easterly wind on 
Broad street, so that it took my hat off. 

Q. The upper current was north-west? 

A. Yes, sir, north-west ; coming towards the harbor. 

Q. Is there any particular in which you would criticise the action of 
the Fire Department that night? 

A. No, sir. I don't think I would be justified in doing that at all ; 
onlj' the general uproariousness and demoralization of almost everybody. 
I did express myself at one time that I thought everybody appeared to 
be perfectly demoralized. I don't know as I was a sufficient judge to 
say so. 

Q. What should you say now about that ? 

A. Well, I told you in the first place that I had not been a spectator at 
a fire for a great many years, but it did appear to me that the multitude 
was demoralized. I believe the leave which Avas given to a great many 
people to take goods was very demoralizing. I think that had a demor- 
alizing effect. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) Did you see anything of that? 

A. Yes, sir ; I was in Otis place, and had to lean back against a stone 
building to let a current of people go by me with goods which I supposed 
they were saving for somebody, but come to find out afterwards, they 
were saving them for themselves. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) What sort of goods? 

A. They appeared to be dry goods. Bundles of blankets, silks, broad- 
cloths, etc. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) Do you know where they came from ? 

A. They came from Winthrop square ; from the direction of Mr. 
Beebe's store, and opposite there. 

Q. (By Mr. Coijb.) What class of persons had these goods? 

A. All classes. 

Q. Firemen? 

A. I would not say that I recognized any firemen. No, sir ; I should 
think not, at that time. 

Q. Did you at any time? 



291 

A. Sunday morning, I thought the firemen were pretty bus3' round 
among the ruins. 

Q. Did you see them take anything away? 

A. No, sir ; I didn't see them take anything away, particularly. 

Q. Were they Boston firemen to whom you allude ? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) What were they doing about the ruins ? 

A. They appeared to be doing anything but attending to any fire duty ; 
so much so, that they excited my curiosit}^, and I asked some of them 
where the}' were stationed ; and the reply was, they were not stationed 
anywhere ; that their hose was burned, or they had lent it, and they had 
nothing to work with. 

Q. Where was this conversation ? 

A. This conversation occuri'ed in a building which I give myself some 
little credit for saving ; I think it was No. 32 Devonshire street. I went 
up on the roof, through the hall ; the offices appeared to be all locked ; I 
had my veteran badge on, which gave me a permit through the lines. I 
went to the roof, and found a little place on the roof on fire. I came out 
and met the Chief Engineer on the street, and told him if I could have a 
single line of hose up through that building, I could save it. He told 
me to take anything I could get, and use my own judgment ; and I got a 
line of hose up there, and did good execution, and that building was 
saved. 

Q. How did the Chief appear when you saw him ? 

A. He appeared to be pretty well fagged out. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) What time was that? 

A. That was about eight o'clock, Sunday morning. 

Q. (B}^ Mr. Russell.) Did he appear to be self-possessed, rational? 

A. Oh, yes, sir. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) He at once acquiesced in j'our suggestion, it 
seems? 

A. Yes, sir : he appeared to be very glad to have all the outside aid 
he could have, and I believe he always reposed a good deal of confidence 
in me in matters of fire business, and he gave me leave to order any line 
of hose that I could get and put it up into the building ; and I did so. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) It was in that building that you had this con- 
versation ? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Was it before j'ou went up with the hose? 

A. No, sir ; after I went up with the hose. I found afterwards some 
stragglers came up on the roof. 

Q,. Was this talk on the roof? 

A. Yes, sir ; the talk was on the roof. 

Q. Did you know from their badges to what engines they belonged ? 

A. No, sir ; I didn't take cognizance enough of that ; they were pretty 
smutty and dirty. 

Q. Do you know they were Boston firemen ? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Do you know they were attached to an engine ? 

A. They were not, then ; they were doing nothing. 



292 

Q. Do you know whether they were firemen, or whether they were 
parlies with firemen's hats on? 

A. They had their fire-hats and fire-coats on. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobu.) How do j^ou know they were Boston firemen? 

A. I recognized them ; I used to be very familiar with almost all of 
them. 

Q. Cannot you call any of them by name? 

A. I do recollect one, particularly. I recollect the foreman of Hose 
6, of East Boston ; he was on the roof. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) He was one of the parties with whom you had 
this conversation ? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Was his hose burned? 

A. He said his hose was lent or burned, or something to that pur- 
pose, and he was out of duty. 

Q. {By Mr. Firth.) Why should they have gone on that roof? 

A. Well, curiosity, perhaps ; seeing a line of hose through the build- 
ing, they thought they would go up and see what was being done. 
There was quite an accumulation of loafers there after awhile, after 
everything was all over. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Is there anything else you noticed in the con- 
duct of the firemen ? 

A. No, sir ; I don't know that I noticed anything. I was down in 
the vicinity of Liberty square and all around the fire that morning, and 
they appeared to be doing diligently all they could do. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) Was there plenty of water? 

A. Tiiere appeared to be. Ever^'thing appeared to be going well 
enough for water. I guess, if there had not been anything but water 
there, some of them would have done a little better. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Were any of them drunk? 

A. I saw a considerable number of men drunk. I do not mean to 
say they were firemen, but I thought liquor was rather plent3^ There 
was one little circumstance that attracted m^' attention particularly. I 
was trying to assist a man in Liberty square to turn a stream on a build- 
ing, — I think it was an out-of-town company' , — and a man came along, 
knocked the head of a champagne bottle off and handed it to the fore- 
man. He took it and dashed it on the sidewalk, and said, "Don't you 
give my men any of that damned stuff." I spoke of it quite in com- 
mendation. I said I wished all of our firemen were just such men. 

Q. Do you know who offered it to him ? 

A. No, sir, I didn't notice, particularly. I noticed some one come 
up — he thought he was doing an act of kindness, I suppose, to refresh 
them, but the foreman took it otherwise. He dashed the bottle on the 
sidewalk, and said, "Don't you give my men any of that damned stuff." 
That ratlier met my approbation at the time. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) Did you say you saw Siuy Boston firemen intoxi- 
cated ? 

A. I can't say, in particular, Boston firemen, but I think there was a 
general demoralizing effect there for a day or two among the multitude. 
I was a little astonished, I know, by the transactions. I thought when 



293 

the cit}' ordered all the rum shops to be shut up, they did an act they 
might have done a great many j'ears ago. 

Q. There was a good deal of intoxication about? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Was that order carried into effect? 

A. Yes, sir, it was carried into effect effectually this time. I know 
the police stepped into the bar-rooms and said, " You must shut up 
your shop or go with me," and it was done. I know in my neiglibor- 
hood every place was shut up on the Monday night immediately follow- 
ing the fire. I organized a special police for our district, of good and 
responsible citizens. I enrolled about forty men, and they compli- 
mented us in City Hall by giving us certificates, I believe, that we were 
police force without pay. But we found no rum-hole open in our 
place those three or four nights, although we watched diligently. It had 
an effect, sir, when the officer told them, " You must shut up or go with 
me ; those are my orders." 



CHARLES ANDREW BODGE, sivorn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) When did j^ou first see the fire of Nov. 9 ? 

A. As near as I can calculate, it was about eighteen minutes past 
seven. 

Q. Where were you ? 

A. In Winthrop square, in front of Houghton & Perkins', and An- 
derson & Heath's stores. 

Q. Where did you see the light? 

A. I heard the cry of fire before the alarm was given ; I heard a dozen 
voices, I should judge, I can't tell the exact number, but a good many 
voices, and I listened. Mi'. Crane, a city officer, was with me. We 
didn't understand, at first, that it was a cry of fire, but when we dis- 
covered that it was fire, we ran directly from where we stood to where 
the fire was. It would not take more than one minute to go from where 
we stood to the fire. 

Q. Then what was the condition of the building? 

A. The fire then was down on a level with the ground floor. 

Q. Was it in front or back? 

A. In the rear, sir. 

Q. Was there any fire above that? 

A. There was fire above, I think, in two or three stories, but I think I 
saw no fire below in the elevator. I was somewhat confused, of course, 
being private watchman for the parties. I watched for Baldwin & 
Tebbetts, and a good mau}^ others, outside, on the street. 

Q. How far does j'our beat extend, as a private watchman ? 

A. From Devonshire, on Summer, to Washington street and down 
Franklin to Devonshire. Nothing below Devonshire on Franklin, and 
nothing beyond Baldwin & Tebbetts on Kingston. That was the extent 
of my route, — through the cross streets. Arch and Otis streets. 

Q. You were employed by a considerable number of parties? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. All on that route ? 



294 

A. Most of them ; I had a large number of stores. 
Q. How long had you been emplo3'ed ? 

A. It will be three years the 21st day of March, since I commenced. 

Q. How soon after you saw the fire, or heard the cry of fire, was the 
fire-alarm given ? 

A. Well, I think soon after I arrived at the fire ; perhaps it might 
have been five minutes, possibly more ; I was somewhat confused and 
excited, being one of my stores. I should judge it was five minutes, I 
don't tliink it was longer than that. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) Did you do anything about giving the 
alarm yourself? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. "Was not that part of your dut}^ ? 

A. Yes, sir ; but some one said that Mr. Page, one of the city oflScers, 
had gone to give the alarm. 

Q. How many minutes do you think it was from the time you first 
heard the cry of fire, until 3'ou heard the fire-alarm ? 

A. It might have been six or seven minutes ; it took me about a 
minute to run across, it might have been a few seconds more, but I don't 
think it took me more than a minute to run across ; I ran very quick. 

Q. Did the fire go up the elevator after you got there? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. How fast? 

A. Very fast indeed ; so fast that I was surprised to see it. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) I understood you to say, that when you 
first saw it, it was not only on the ground floor, but two or three stories 
above. 

A. It was, but the chairman asked me how quick it went ; it travelled 
veiy quick. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Travelled up the elevator? 

A. Yes, sir, travelled very quick. 

Q. Was it in the second and third stories without being in the lower 
story at all? 

A. No, sir ; when I got there, the fire was below the second floor. 

Q. You mean, that it was all below the second floor? 

A. No, sir, not all ; it was down on the second floor and above ; it 
hadn't burst out of the roof; it was confined inside of the building. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) Did you go down past the building in 
Kingston street? 

A. I came straight across Summer street and went into Kingston 
street ; I went into the rear. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) How near the fire did you go? 

A. I went round the corner of Kingston street, and into a passage- 
way in the rear ; just stepped in, and saw the condition of the fire ; then 
I waited perhaps five minutes, and then I started for the parties who 
occupied the stores. I started for Mr. Tebbetts, and met him on the 
Common. I was running across the Common, and saw Mr. Tebbetts, 
and stopped and told him the condition of aflfairs. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) Did you look into the basement windows? 

A. No, sir ; I did not notice below the ground floor. 



295 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) In what part of tbo ground floor did you 
see the fire? 

A. I saw it in the elevator, through the windows in the rear of the 
building. 

Q. Through the elevator windows ? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Could 3'ou get into the passage-wa}' then ? 

A. Yes, sir, I could have got in, but I knew it was impossible to stop 
it, 3'Ou know, and I went at once to notify the parties, which is part of 
m}' duty. 

Q. I want to find out the exact appearance of the fire when you got 
there. 

A. I can't say it was in the basement, but it was in the second floor. 

Q. There was none above the second floor? 

A. Y^'es, sir, there was fire above. 

Q. But it was below, on the ground floor? 

A. I can't say it was awa}' down as far as the elevator, but I could see 
the light from below on the second floor ; it was burning briskl}' above. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) Y'"ou saw it travel upward ? 

A. I stayed but a short time ; I went immediately to notify my par- 
ties. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) Was there any fire apparatus there before you 
left? 

A. I think there was a hose company there. 

Q. Do 3'OU remember what hose it was ? 

A. No, sir, I don't. 

Q. (Bj' Mr. Philbrick.) As you approached the fire from Summer 
street, could 3'ou see the light through the front windows? 

A. No, sir, I didn't notice any through the front windows ; the cur- 
tains were down. 

Q. Where did j-'ou see the light of the fire? 

A. I could see the reflection on Hatch's building, on the opposite side 
of the passage. 

Q. Could 3'Ou see it from the Kingston-street windows? 

A. I didn't notice it there. 

Q. Was the fire spouting out of the lower windows ? 

A. No, sir ; it was not coming out of the windows themselves. 

Q. Only the light ? 

A. Only the light. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) How many keys are there to that alarm box? 

A. Really, I cannot tell. 

Q. How many are there that you know of? 

A. Mr. Farwell and Mr. Page have keys, and there are two other men 
"who have them. 

Q. Did you have a key? 

A. Yes, sir, I have ake}^ ; I presume one key fits all the boxes. 

Q. Are there not a number of stores about there where they have 
keys ? 

A. I do not know ; that is the only store that I have on this side, ex- 
cept I have Mr. Glazier's, on this corner. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) Is there any other fire-box on your beat? 



296 

A. That is the nearest ; there is another one on Channing street, and 
the next is at the Old South ; the next is in Winter street, near the Music 
Hall. 

Q. No. 52 was the nearest? 

A. Yes, sir, until I came to Bedford street again on the corner of Bed- 
ford street and Washington ; there is no box near me on Summer or 
Franklin streets, until you come to Milk street ; one at the Old South, 
one near the corner of Chauncy street, and one on Bedford street. 

Q. When did you first ask if an alarm had been given ? 

A. I heard it. 

Q. You say it was five or six minutes after you heard the cry of fire, 
before 3'ou heard the alarm ? 

A. Yes, sir ; some one told me that Mr. Page had gone to give the 
alarm, and spoke of its being a good while before they got an answer 
from City Hall. I heard that remark made. 

Q. When did 3'ou have that conversation ? 

A. I did not have it myself; I overheard it. 

Q. How long after you arrived on the spot? 

A. It may have been three or four minutes, possibl}' ; I can't tell ex- 
actly ; I Avas excited, as I say, in regard to it. 

Q. When j^ou first arrived on the spot, didn't it occur to you that it 
was your duty to go to the alarm box? 

A. Yes, sir ; it was my duty as well as the other officers who were 
with me. There were three city officers there at that time. 

Q. But you sa^^ you waited four or five minutes before you heard any- 
thing said about the alarm? 

A. I can't tell how long it was before I heard this remark ; I can't 
tell the exact time, but somewhere in the neighborhood of five minutes. 
I can't tell exactly. 

Q. (B}' Mr. Cobb.) You heard some one say that he had been gone 
a long time? 

A. Yes, sir ; that he had been gone long enough for the alarm to be 
given. 

Q. You knew he had but a short distance to go ; why didn't you start 
then? 

A. I don't know why I didn't. I suppose, if he had gone, I knew he 
was in advance of me, and of course he would give the alarm before I 
got there. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) Did you ask the question of anybody whether 
an alarm had been given on your arrival? 

A. No, sir, I didn't, not to my knowledge ; I don't remember asking. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) Why didn't you go to the box? 

A. Because some one said that Mr. Page had gone, the officer on that 
route. Of course, if he had gone, there would be no necessity for my 
going. 

Q. But you said you waited two or three minutes before you heard 
that remark made ; those two or three minutes were very valuable min- 
utes at that time. 

A. Yes, sir, I know, but if he had gone in advance of me 

Q. But before you found out that he had gone, you say it was two or 
three minutes ? 



297 

Mr. Russell. He says he was excited. 

Witness. Yes, sir, I was excited. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) Looking back upon it now, don't you think you 
ought to have started quicker for that box ? 

A. If I had been cooler, I presume I should ; but if I had, I probably 
should not have had the alarm rung anj' quicker, because there were 
other officers there. There were three officers went over with me. If I 
had been alone, it might have made a difference, but there were no less 
than five officers, — Mr. Farwell, Mr. Page, Mr. Crane, Mr. Dodd and 
Mr. Matthew, — who all went directly to the fire, sir. 



JULIUS F. GAGE, sworn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) What time did 3'ou see the fire ? 

A. Well, about fourteen minutes past seven. 

Q. Where were you ? 

A. In Chaunc}^ street, about a rod beyond Bedford. 

Q. Did you go immediately to the fire? 

A. No, sir, not immediately ; I went down to the corner of Essex 
street. 

Q. How soon after you saw the fire did you hear the fire-alarm? 

A. I should think it was not far from seven to nine minutes. 

Q. You give the time when j^ou first saw the fire exactly fourteen 
minutes past seven, P. M. ; did you look at your watch? 

A. Well, I fix that time from the fact that I went from Bedford 
street to Essex street, got off the car, and helped the ladies off, and 
said, " We will go back," and they said they had not time. I then 
looked at my watch, and it was fifteen minutes past seven. M}' watch 
said twenty minutes past, but my watch was exactly five minutes fast. 

Q. How extensive was the fire at that time ? Did you actually see the 
fire? 

A. I did not in the first place, sir. 

Q. What did you see? 

A. I saw a little reflection on the corner building, — I think it is 
Forbes, Richardson & Co.'s. 

Q. Where is that? 

A. That building stood on the corner of Summer and Chauncy 
streets. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) Did you go to the fire ? 

A. I went into Rowe place, from Essex street, immediately, and saw 
the fire from there. I went to the fire, as you might sa}', by going into 
Rowe place, as soon as I got off the car. That was the reason I had 
occasion to look at my watch. 

Q. Did 3'ou go to the fire before the alarm was sounded? 

A. I went into Rowe place, where I could see the fire right straight 
across, distinctly. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) What did you see there, distinctly? 

A. I saw the fire was burning on the corner of the building, at the 
top, and I stood there until the alarm struck, and then immediately went 
round to the fire. 



298 

Q. At that time you could see a light in the upper front of the build- 
ing, when you got into Rowe place? 

A. Certainly ; that was where the reflection came from, when I first 
saw it. I saw it then when it burst out from the upper windows, and so 
on. I made the remark that I never saw a fire in my life when the 
alarm was so long in being given ; and just as I said that, they struck 
the alarm. 



W. F. JENKINS, sworn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) "When did you see the fire? 

A. I should say it was from fifteen to twenty minutes past seven 
o'clock. I was writing at the time at a desk in J. A. Hatch & Co.'s, 
Nos. 14 and 16 Kingston street. Our oflSce was in the front of the store, 
the side nearest the alley. I heard a sound like the clinking of glass, as 
if the whole window had been broken in. I listened a moment and 
heard the roar of flames, and saw that the room was full of light. I 
looked up the alle}^ (I forget whether there were two or three basement 
windows between the elevator and Summer street) and at the first win- 
dow nearest the elevator the flames were coming out, and thej"" were 
coming out of the first two windows in the elevator. There were no 
flames above the second story. In this window in the basement, it 
seemed all on fire, and it was going up very rapidly from one story to 
another. There were then a dozen people looking on, on the other side 
of the street. I asked if any one had given the alarm. They said, " Yes, 
a man had just run to give it." I ran back to the safe and took out the 
books and papers and carried them down to the corner of Bedford street, 
and carried out what silks and shawls I could, and a few of my own 
things (I roomed in the store and worked there), until the flame came 
in, and it was getting pretty warm, and I stopped from going any more. 
The passage up stairs was No. 18. There were three policemen that I 
saw there at once. I unlocked the stairway door and asked the police- 
man to station some one there to see that no roughs went up. When I 
came in the last time, he told me not to go in again, as they expected 
the roof was coming in. Then I went across the street into Mr. Pratt's, 
and stayed there for an hour. I got the books out the back way. I 
carried the goods up to Jordan & Marsh's. I should think from the time 
that I saw the flames until the time that there was any water put on was 
fifteen minutes, or it may be twenty minutes, as I should judge now, 
although it may not have been so long. 

Q. How long was it before the alarm was given ? 

A. 1 was rushing around so that I didn't hear the alarm, and I can't 
tell who sounded it. When I came home from supper, it was about half 
an hour before the fire broke out. I saw a man in the alley-way just be- 
fore the fire broke out. 

Q. Did 3^ou hear any report before you heard the noise of the fire ? 

A. No, sir ; I did not. Where I was sitting was but fifteen or twenty 
feet from where the fire broke out, I didn't hear anything unusual before I 
heard the noise of the fire. I should have heard it if there had been anj''- 
thing unusual, because I was so near. Rag-pickers go into that alley 



299 

frequently, and people after old wood, and I always hear them or any 
other unusual noise. 

Q. "What was the first fire apparatus that came that you saw? 

A. That I could not tell. I remember the hose being carried up 
stairs, and I think the first thing was an engine at the corner of Bedford 
street, but I could not say definitely. The hose was carried up the stair- 
way of Nos. 14 and 16 to No. 18, up stairs. There was no hose carried 
in at our door down stairs. I noticed firemen up stairs when I last went 
out. It seemed a great while before there was any of the Fire Depart- 
ment on the grounds. 

Q. Does the building j'ou are in have any windows on the passage-way? 

A. Yes, sir. We had, fifteen feet from the ground, windows not more 
than eight feet wide. Along on the other side were gratings, except on 
the highest flight. Our basement was full of heavy goods. On the 
floor where the oflfice was were samples. On the floor above that were 
samples. On the floor above that were fancy goods, and a good deal of 
straw. They were in large cases, and in the packing of them there was 
a good deal of straw used. In the attic were manufactured suits. 

As I looked up, the whole flame was coming against those windows, 
and it got in there. There were half-sized windows in the alley, but I 
could not look down from them. I noticed the reflection of the light of 
the fire on our wall when I first looked out. There was not anything in 
that to excite my alarm, but after hearing the glass rattle, in a moment 
1 heard the roaring of the flames. I did not see an3'thing but a light 
shining on our ceiling, as if it were shining from a lower point. 

Q. When you went out, did 3^ou look at the basement? 

A. Yes, sir. There was where I saw the fire first. Perhaps there 
were two or three windows between the elevator and Sumtner street, as it 
looks to me now. It was in the window this way on the alley-way, and 
it was in the two first windows from the elevator, and also below those 
in the basement. There was no fire in the attic as I looked up. I feared 
for our upper stories and roof, and therefore I looked up immediately. 

Q. Was there anything to excite your suspicions about the man 3^ou 
saw in the alley-way? 

A. No, sir. I should say now that he was a rag-picker, or that he 
went in there to make water. There was nothing suspicious about him. 
Before going into the office, I went through our store, as I always do, and 
saw to all the locks and bolts. Everything was straight in our store, — 
J. A. Hatch & Co.'s. 

Q. When you first looked up the alley, after going out, were the base- 
ment windows burst? 

A. One was, that I am certain of. As I think now, it was the one 
nearest the elevator, because the flame was sweeping out of that and out 
of the two windows in the elevator, — out of the ground floor and the 
second floor. 

ALBERT BOWKER, sivorn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Please tell us anything you know about this 
fire. 

A. I feel a great deal more than I know. 



300 

Q. State an_ything that you think ought to be brought to the atten- 
tion of the Commission. 

A. I am so appalled by this measureless calamity that I hardlj'- know 
whether I am on my feet or not. I am in the habit of attending all 
great fires, and for twenty years I have attended all small ones also. I 
have al\va3's made it a rule to have my horse saddled as soon as the bell 
is rung. 

Q. How long have you been connected vrith Insurance Companies? 

A. Nearly a quarter of a century. AYithin the last two or three years, 
I have not been so frequently at the small fires as formerly. I used 
alwa3's to make it a point to go to all fires within any reasonable dis- 
tance of the city. 

Q. How soon did you reach this fire? 

A. I did not reach it until it had made considerable progress, for the 
reason that I had purposely constructed on the top of my house an ex- 
cellent lookout, so that I could witness fires, and note their progress. 
Since we have had an Underwriters' Brigade, I have not felt it necessary 
to be on hand to save property as I used to. This fire had made consid- 
erable progress before I got there, and I had to take the statements of 
others as to what occurred. 

Q. Did you notice anything after you got there that is worthy of 
remarlc ? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. What time did you get there? 

A. I should not dare to speak as to the time. I was there during all 
the night and all day Sunday ; I can't tell you the hours ; for four or 
five of us connected with the Insurance Companies went around the fires 
constantly, and we would go right back to our oflSces and make up our 
minds how much we had lost. We would do it by means of a " Plan " 
on which we have everything located. But I don't pretend to have been 
on the ground at the time the fire first burst out, or anywhere near it ; 
and I didn't note the time, 

Q. Can you tell anywhere near the time when j^ou left home? 

A. No, sir ; but I should say that it was within fifteen minutes of the 
breaking out of the fire. I went right into my cnpola. (I am on the 
highest land and overlook the whole city.) In about fifteen minutes I 
started for the fire. I could get there in twenty minutes easily. I went 
past my office and looked in, expecting to find some of my clerks there. 

Q. What did you notice? 

A. I noticed that the fire had made considerable progress, and had 
extended to several buildings; and I immediately went (I am not sure 
now whether it was the first or the second time) into C. F. Hovey & 
Co's store, where we had risks. I went on to the top of his building and 
gave more or less directions in regard to shingling the windows with 
blankets and carpets. It was a copper roof. I assisted a little in re- 
moving goods. After that I went immediately around the fire again, as 
near as I could get around it. 

Q. When you first went there, was Otis street on fire? 

A. No, sir; not to my recollection. It would not answer for me to 
swear positively to particular buildings or particular streets, because it 
was so alarming that I have not the facts definitely in my mind. 



301 

Q. Did you see the fire cross Otis and Summer streets? 

A. No, sir. I think it was the second time that I went around it 
before the roof of the Freeman's Bank (in which I am a Director) was 
burned. That was on Church-Green street. 

Q. State anything that you noticed as to the management of that 
fire. 

A. There was no management about it when I was there. All the 
water they put on promoted combustion, it seemed to me. It was not 
easy to get near where the}' were pouring on water. 

Q. Did you notice any want of water? 

A. My impressions are of a general nature entirely in regard to that 
fire, with the exception of in regard to particular places — such a place, 
for instance, as Hovey's building, where I went on to the roof. 

Q. Did you see any misconduct on the part of the firemen? 

A. No, sir. I have no doubt that the firemen, as individuals, showed 
great intrepidity, and made heroic eflTorts. I occasionally spoke to an 
Engineer ; but they seemed to be powerless when I saw them. Indeed, I 
was very seldom able to get near the Engineers, but only met them 
occasionally. 

Q. Did you happen to see the Chief that night? 

A. No, sir, I didn't see him at all. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) What is your opinion about covering windows 
with blankets? If other people had done so, would not more buildings 
have been saved ? 

A. I have no doubt of it. But Hovey's was a copper roof. It was 
so hot you could hardly stand on it. The men were about to leave, 
but I begged them not to. It was frightfully hot up there. There was 
a small army of men moving goods. 

Q. Was there a large flat roof whei-e they could walk about? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Towards Summer street there was a steeper pitch, with dormer 
windows ? 

A. Yes, sir. Those windows were the ones that they were about to 
give up covering. I told them they would save that builuing if they 
kept on. They went right out from the attic on to the eaves. We had 
some improvised steps to get up with. We stood right on the level roof. 
There was great excitement. Mr. Lawrence was there. I was so ap- 
palled that I even asked him his name, and yet I knew him well. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) Did it ever occur to you that we were in 
danger of such a large fire in Boston, from the character of the archi- 
tecture here? 

A. I think there is a printed speech of mine in New Y^'ork, in which I 
said that I thought we were the worst-built city in the Union — espe- 
cially the new part of our city — except Cincinnati. (In Cincinnati, they 
build as high as they can, and then put a wooden roof on top of all.) 
I have been in every city in the United States east of the Mississippi, 
except two that had the yellow fever — New Orleans and Mobile. 

Q. Are you still of the same opinion in regard to the architecture of 
Boston ? 

A. I don't know of any city where they put so much kindling-wood 
on top of stone-work. 



302 

Q. Do 5^ou conceive that it was in the power of the Fire Department 
to put out that fire after it got a half-hour's start? 

A. No, sir ; not after that time. It must either exhaust itself for 
want of materials, or else the buildings must be blown up. 

Q. Did you see any blowing up? 

A. No, sir. I saw the effect of it, and I was as near as it is prudent 
to be ; but I didn't see the process. 

Q. What Avas your judgment as to the effects of blowing up buildings? 

A. So far as I understand, they were perfectly laughable. There was 
no practical blowing up that was really useful. The buildings were not 
lifted up bodil}^ and tumbled in a mass of fragments into the cellars, as 
they were in Chicago. 

Q. Were those that you saw in Chicago that had been blown up, full 
of merchandise? 

A. No, sir. Almost all that I saw were brick dwelling-houses. They 
used very large amounts of powder there. 

Q. Did you see the building on the corner of Water and Congress 
streets after it was blown up ? 

A. No, sir, — not to observe it particularly. But I have been over 
the district and observed other buildings particularly. I noticed Currier 
& Trott's building, and some in Summer street. Really, I am not 
posted on the matter of blowing up, here. 

Q. Do you think, then, that if the powder had been used in a proper 
manner, it might have been very useful here? 

A. Certainly. There might have been a space made around that fire. 
There is no doubt about that at all. 

Q. How early, when you went around the fire, were you impressed 
with that fact ? 

A. I was so impressed that I went back the first time and said, " We 
have not lost over $100,000, and the fire is under control. Thej'- will 
subdue it before it has passed much farther." The next time I came 
around I found that we had lost $200,000 or $300,000, and the next, all 
had gone. 

Q. Did it appear to you before the fire that some other organization 
was necessary ? 

A. I am glad you asked that question, because, when I came back from 
Chicago, at either the regular meeting of the Board of Underwriters 
(composed of the Boston Presidents of Insurance Companies) or of the 
Underwriters' Union (of which I am also President), I stated (I think it 
was before the latter) that I had deliberately and thoroughly investigated 
Boston's preparations against fire, and that what we wanted here was a 
corps of men who knew how to blow up buildings, and how to do it 
quickly without waiting for red tape, or sending to the Navy Yard and 
getting a permit from the Commodore. That recommendation of mine 
was received with shouts of laughter, — a regular " guffaw " — derisively. 

Q. You did not publish those remarks ? 

A. No, sir. They were received with derision. 

Q. Did you bring those views before the public in any other way, 
or before the City Government, or the Fire Committee, or the Fire 
Department? 

A. No, sir. I talked privately with Capt. Damrell, in Chicago. I 



303 

thought that he came away " a changed man," as we say in religious 
meetings, — converted — " to powder." 

Q. Did Capt. Damrell confess to you that an immense fire was pos- 
sible in Boston? 

A. No, sir. But I think his views were modified. 

Q. Did you observe anything in respect to the force of the current 
of air created b}'^ the fire ? 

A. When I was in High street, the wind came as if there were a blow- 
pipe. It was blowing right through from High street down towards 
Federal. It was blowing towards the fire. It was the induced current. 



Col. E. 0. SHEPAKD, sworn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) At what time did you see the fire first? 

A. It was about 8 1-2 o'clock. I did not go to the fire at first. 

Q, At what time did you go to the City Hall? 

A. It was between one and two o'clock. 

Q. Before you went there, did you see anything worthy of notice? 

A. No, sir. Nothing more than what a great multitude would 
testify to. 

Q. Did you go there to consult? 

A. Yes, sir. I went to see what was going to be done. It looked as 
if the city was all going, and I went up to the Mayor's room. 

Q. Who was there? 

A. There were fifteen or twenty people there, I think. I remember 
that Chief Engineer Damrell was in there when I went in, seated at the 
Mayor's desk, — also Mr. George O. Carpenter and others. At the 
time I got there, Mr. Damrell was writing the orders to give to people 
for them to blow up buildings. 

Q. Did you receive an order? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Have you one here ? 

A. Yes, sir. Here it is. [Reads.] 

" Col. Shepard will blow up buildings or remove goods, as his judgment directs. 

" (Signed), J. S. DAMRELL, Chief Engineer." 

Q. About how many others were given out? 

A. I think they were given, one each, to Aldermen Jenks, George O. 
Carpenter, General Burt, Mr. Bicknell, Mr. Page, and Mr. Loring of the 
Council. 

Q. Did you hear the Chief make any remarks at that time? 

A. Yes, sir. Somebody said something about powder, and he said, " I 
have already taken measures about that ; the powder-boat is already 
coming to the wharf with powder, and men are already engaged about 
that. I have also sent to Charlestown for powder, which is probably on 
its way here by this time." That is all that I remember that the Chief 
said. 

When these orders were written, we were standing abouf the table in the 
centre of the room, and various persons were talking about what should 
be done, and how it should be done ; and Mayor Gaston inquired if he 



304 

should call out the military. Gen. Burt replied, " That is a good idea. 
They should be called out." 

Q. Whom did the Ma3'or inquire of? 

A. He seemed to inquire of those who were there. He named their 
names and said, " Had not the military better be called out at once?" 
I think General Burt replied, " Yes, as quick as they can." 

Q. Was there anything farther from the Mayor? 

A. I don't remember of anything farther. 

Q. Did the Chief Engineer seem to be self-possessed, or otherwise? 

A. W^ell, he appeared self-possessed, I think. He was laboring under 
some excitement. 

Q. How was the Mayor ? 

A. The Mayor was about the coolest of the party assembled there. He 
seemed to be in full possession of his faculties, — very cool, and yet not 
phlegmatic. The most excited man that I saw there, I think, was Gen- 
eral Burt. 

After these orders had been given out, some one suggested that Gen'l 
Burt be chosen the Commander, and that was adopted ; and then we all 
started right oif Avithout any organization, or without knowing where we 
were to go, or what we were to do, and I suggested to Alderman Jenks 
that we seemed to be going off like a mob. Mr. Jenlcs then turned to 
the party and suggested that we be marked off in localities, — directed to 
go to special localities, — -and upon that we were designated. I was sta- 
tioned at the corner of Summer and Washington streets. We went down 
into the office of the Chief of Police, and each had a policeman assigned 
to him, and I went aTvay with my policeman to the corner of Summer 
and AVashington streets. I don't know the name or the number of the 
policeman. I felt that it was a fearful responsibility for me. 

Q. What did you do in pursuance of that authority? 

A. We went to the corner of Summer and Washington streets. The 
fire then, I think, was just reaching Trinity church. It had not got down 
Washington street as far as Macullar, Williams & Parker's store. It was 
burning up there. The firemen were at work in Summer street throwing 
water upon the opposite buildings ; and they were in Washington street, 
nearl}' opposite the " Transcript " building, playing upon the opposite 
buildings there. The wind was blowing down Winter street pretty 
strong. My judgment was that the firemen would save that without any 
explosions being made. 

I saw Alderman Woollc}' there, and he was of the opinion that the 
firemen would save it. I impressed a team and took my policeman, and 
we went down Dock square to Mr. Reed's store to get powder. We 
didn't get it, but got five hundred feet of fuse. Then we went up to a 
store on Cornhill, and found the store broken open, and that somebody 
had been there. Then we went back to the fire, and shortly after 1 got 
there (perhaps we were gone three-quarters of an hour), some powder 
arrived. Mr. Page came there with powder, and various citizens were 
about there. They were very anxious that the building should be blown 
up, when they fjuund out we had authority, and they were ver^' anxious 
to have Mudge's store blown up. Finally between Mr. Page, myself, and 
some others, there seemed to be a general opinion that it must be blown 
up, and somebody took some powder into the building. The engine at 



305 

the corner was moved away and the firemen all deserted Summer street 
and Washington street, and the powder was touched off. It blew out the 
glass, but it didn't make a great noise. They put some more powder in 
and ran. That powder didn't go off at all. Well, some time passed, and 
then Washington street and Summer street were cleared, and it was 
cleared for some distance up Winter street, everybody expecting moment- 
arily that this building would blowup. But after waiting about ten 
minutes, I saw that the buildings on the other side of Washington street 
were getting very hot, and I saw the necessity of having water thrown 
upon those buildings. The wind was pretty strong then. The fire then 
had got down to this Mudge's building, and the store beyond was in 
flames. This building was alone. It seemed certain then that the fire 
would not cross Washington street if water was thrown npon the buildings 
opposite, and that it would not cross Summer street. There seemed to 
be a necessity for having water thrown upon the buildings. I was trying 
to rally the firemen back to their places, but they were very much afraid 
of this powder and refused to go. Finally, I found a white-hatted Cap- 
tain of a hose company who seemed to realize it. I told him that I knew 
who put the powder in there and how much there had been, and that 
there was no danger whatever. I told him that I would be the first man 
at the nozzle of the hose, if he would come down Washington street. lie 
said he would go where I would. He got a hose and came down into 
Washington street and played on the building opposite, and shortly 
afterwards two or three other hose came in there and played on to the 
burning buildings and on to this Mudge's building, and then they got a 
hose down into Summer street, and the building didn't blow up or burn 
down either. 

Q. How many minutes were lost in that place by using powder? 

A. Well, sir, I should think more than half an hour, and, perhaps, 
three-quarters of an hour. It is very difficult to judge of the time. 

The sentiment of those people about there seemed to be that 
it was a wise thing to do ; and I thought that if it was not blown 
down, and the fire should cross Washington street, it would be said 
that it was in consequence of its not being blown down. It was very 
difficult to decide what was best. It seemed then that it had got to burn 
if it was not blown up. 

Q. Were there any Fire Engineers on that spot? 

A, I saw no Engineer. 

Q. To your knowledge, no Engineer gave an opinion for or against it? 

A. No, sir. Alderman Woolley was the only one that I saw who 
seemed to have authority when we tried to rally the firemen. They 
called for an Engineer. 1 inquired where he was. They said they didn't 
know. I pulled out this paper and said that I was an Engineer for the 
time being, and that I would take the responsibility of dii'ecting them. 
I tried to impress them with the fearful authority of that paper. 

Q. Do you know what became of that second dose of powder? 

A. No, sir. So far as I know, it is there now. 

Q. You say " they " advised doing it and you thought you had better 
not. Whom do j'ou mean by " they " ? 

A. They were men that I didn't know. I remember Taylor and 

Mr. John Brown of Temple street. He was very anxious that the building 
20 



30G 

should be blown up. He was the only man that I know. Councilman 
Page was tliere, and he thought it should bo blown up, and he brought the 
powder, with a couple of flremen. 

Q. Who appointed General Bart as Commander? 

A. Somebody suggested it. I don't know who it was. He suggested 
that General Bart should be put in command of this force ; others said 
" Yes." There was no formal vote. General Burt started off the mo- 
ment that he received that authority, and we were about following him, 
like a mob. He assigned me to Summer street. "When we came back, 
at the suggestion of somebody that we had better be organized, the 
Mayor's Clerk sat down at a table and wrote off the names and the 
places. I think they were asked to volunteer, and one said, " I will go 
here," and another said, " I will go there," and they rather chose their 
places. I was quiet and didn't hanker after responsibility, and I took 
what was left. 

Q. Did General Burt accept the command? 

A. Yes, sir. He did in fact ; I don't know that he did in words. 

Q. Did he issue au}'^ orders whatever? 

A. No, sir. I think as soon as they appointed him Commander in 
this way, he says, " Come, let us go ! " and we were starting off without 
knowing where we were going or what we were going to do. 

Q. Was any section assigned to General Burt? 

A. Yes, sir. I think he said he would go down in Federal street, or 
somewhere in that vicinity. 

Q. Did you blow up any other buildings besides Mudge's? 

A. No, sir. I didn't blow that up. 1 didn't see who went and put 
the powder in. 

Q. Where w-as IMr. Page's district? 

A. It was not there. It was a usurpation. He was invading my dominion. 

Q. That was the only explosion you witnessed? 

A. Yes, sir. I stayed there until about six o'clock, when I saw that 
the fire was under complete control in that section, and then I went back 
to the Mayor's office and reported to him that it was all safe there. 

Q. Did you see your Commander at any later time? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. Were no reports made to the Commander? 

A. No, sir. I reported to the Mayor, and I think Mr. Cobb was there 
when I returned. Then I went home and went to bed and remained there 
until hnlf-past nine o'clock. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) How was it in regard to the conduct of the fire as 
it came under your eye? 

A. It was excellent, with the exception of those men who declined to 
go into Washington street, because they were afraid of the explosion of 
that building. 1 don't tliink they were to be blamed much for that. I 
think it was an out-of-town compan}'. I told them that there was not a 
formidable quantity of the powder. But they were inclined to think that 
that was a fib. 

The second charge was put into the farther extreme corner, so that it 
was ralhcr a dangerous thing to attempt to go in to get it out. There 
didn't seem to be anybody very desirous of doing it. 

Adjourned to Tuesday' afternoon, Dec. 10th. 



307 



NINTH DAY. 

Tuesday, Dec. 10. 
WILLIAM W. GREENOUGH, sioorn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) You are the treasurer of the Boston Gas 
Light Co.? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. What means do you have of shutting off gas from a burning dis- 
trict? 

A. Perhaps I had better make a statement, so that you may under- 
stand the whole thing more clearly. 

In 1835, at the time when our corporation was reorganized, there 
"were placed outside of the meters, a cock, and outside of the house, at 
each service pipe, a cock, by which the gas could be stopped in case of a 
conflagration. When I took the management of the works, in 1852, 
some few of the outside cocks still remained, a great number having 
■feeen previously discontinued as useless in case of emergency, for the 
simple reason that, having remained in the ground for a series of years, 
they became rusty, and wouldn't turn when occasion required. Shortly 
after I became manager, my attention was drawn to the importance of 
having some provision for the streets, whereby the gas could be shut off 
from districts, and I began and continued a system of water valves, 
the only known valve then in use, and deemed suitable for the purpose, 
whereb}^ gas could be shut off in the main before reaching buildings. 
Some three years since, a slide valve was invented, which, after careful 
investigation, I made up my mind to trust in the streets, and began 
slowly to introduce them. At the time of the fire in November, we had 
in use in the streets of the city eight hundred and thirty-four valves on 
the street mains, of which six hundred and fifteen were water valves, and 
two hundred and twenty-nine slide valves. By a slide valve, I mean 
an iron gate. I believe that is a larger number than is in use in any 
other city with which I am conversant. In most American cities, they 
have no provision in case of fire except the cock on the service pipe 
outside the house, so that I supposed, previously to the fire, that we had 
all the provision which it was possible to have for the protection of the 
cit}' ancl ourselves. When the fire came, all these preventives proved 
worthless ; the water valves in the districts which were on fire were in- 
accessible, and the fall of the heavy granite buildings broke our mains 
from ten inches in diameter down to the smallest sizes. 

I should explain, that the distribution in the streets consists mainly of 
-3, 4, 6, 8 and 10-inch mains, with large arterial mains, conducting gas 
from the works to the reservoirs. During the time of the fire, it was not 
possible to get hand-carts enough, nor men enough, to convey water in 
barrels to the water valves ; but at six o'clock on Sunday morning, our 
street foreman and his assistants began, with their gangs of men, to 
shut off as fast as they could, their first work being to fill the 18-inch 
water valve at the head of Summer street. 



308 

Q. What is the name of your street foreman ? 

A. William II. Duroll. lie can tell you A'ery much more than I can 
of his own movements, as I know nothing of what he did except by- 
hearsay. 

Q. lie only did what he was told to do, I suppose? 

A. lie wasn't told to do anything. It was his duty to do it, without 
waiting to get any command from me. It was his duty to cut off all the 
gas from the district, in all cases of fire. I can say this, that he went 
on with his work, and continued steaclily at it, Monday, Tuesday and 
Wednesda3% until all connection with the burned district was cut off. 
On Sunday night an explosion occurred, breaking our great arterial main 
connecting the works with the two Federal street gas-holders. Directly 
connecting, I should say, because we had an outlet connection with the 
works, but the means of supply was through this 18-inch main ; and the 
gas was shut off at the works immediately subsequent to that. 

I think I have now given all the substantial facts. 

Q. The gas that continued to burn in some places was what remained 
in the pipes after this shutting off? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. You could see gas burning dimly in some of the streets? 

A. Yes, sir; the gas continued to burn in places about town, on the 
high ground, and so on, very dimly. The specific gravity of the gas 
being lighter than the atmosphere, of course it went to the high portions 
of the city. I think in some houses, on Mt. Vernon street, for instance, 
it did not go out at all. 

Q. How did these water valves work? 

A. The water valve is a seal of water. It usually is in the form of 
a circular box, of greater or less depth, according to the size of the main , 
which it is to stop ; through the centre of it, at the top, comes an 
iron partition, which extends within a few inches of the bottom If 
there is nothing in the valve, the gas passes under the partition, and 
through it ; when the water is filled in, so that it is up to the level of 
the bottom of the pipe, then the gas cannot pass from the street main on 
one side to the street main on the other side, without going down through 
the water. 

Q. (By Mr. PiiiLBuiCK.) Exactly like a trap in a sewer? 

A. Yes, sir; exactly like a trnp in a sewer. 

Q. When you want to use them, you fill them with water? 

A. Yes, sir ; for instance, that eighteen-inch main water-valve (which 
is the largest we have in use) takes three or four barrels of water ; on 
that eighteen-inch main, however, we have substituted two slide valves, 
in places where there were water valves before. The great ditficulty has 
been to get valves which work after having been in the ground for a long 
while. About three years ago, there was invented a valve of a V shape, 
which fitted into the bottom of the valves in this way, the old valve 
having been square, and squarely entering the cavity at the bottom of 
the valves ; when that form became rusty no human power could pull it 
out sometimes, although it worked with a screw. But we found that the 
new slide valves that we used worked very well, and we are now largely 
continuing their use. When the explosion occurred on Sunday night. 



309 

it blew the water out of the water valves in the immediate vicinity, so 
that we were left as if nothing had been done. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) Was that something new in your experience? 

A. Entirely. We have nevr^r had any considerable explosion of gas 
in any case of fire, so that when Monday morning came, we had nothing 
to do except to cut our mains bodily around the district, which was ac- 
complished by Tuesday night. 

Q. (By Mr. Eussell.) How many men did you employ? 

A. I can't tell you. Mr. Durell can tell you. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) How do you account for the explosions of 
gas that occurred ? 

A. M}" theory of the matter has been this : that among the breakages 
of the mains, there came a break in the vicinity of a sewer, by which 
the gas was let into the sewer, and from that went into the cellars of 
some of the stores that were on fire. There was no force previous to the 
explosions to have broken that eighteen-inch main, which we found bro- 
ken in three places, when we came to strip it, as we did as soon as we 
could get access to it, the whole length of Summer street, with the ex- 
ception of the places where tliere had been no granite stores to fall upon 
the mains. We found the mains broken only in the vicinity of the ex- 
plosions, where the ground was upheaved, in front of the store where I 
suppose the main explosion took place, from the account which was given 
to me by Mr. Greenleaf, of the firm of Hovey & Co., who gave rne the 
only definite account which I have had of the successive explosions. But 
my theory, as I have before stated, has been, that the gas got into the 
drain, and from there into the cellars. And what confirms me the more 
in that opinion is that on Monday afternoon, the gas being on for a little 
while, I was standing at the head of Summer street, and an explosion 
came through the drain, blowing off the covers of the drain, I should 
think, two or three times while 1 was standing there. The gas was shut 
ofl;" Monday morning, but it was let on again a little while Monday after- 
noon, to see if everythi.ng was tight. 

Q. How do you explain satisfactorily the occurrence of the explosions 
in the gas mains by the leakage of gas into the sewers? As I understand 
it, gas doesn't explode without air. 

A. No, sir. 

Q. Could any air get into ^^our mains ? 

A. No, sir. There were four explosions, as I understand ; the first 
below Chauncy street, on Summer, on the right-hand side going down ; 
the second nearly opposite Hovey's ; the third was in the store between 
Trinity church and Mudge's, and the fourth explosion was in the cellar 
of another store, I forget the name of the occupant. That explosion 
broke this main, upheaved it from below. Whether the main was bro- 
ken before or not, I have no means of saying, but when the explosion 
took place, it blew to pieces the water-box of the eighteen-inch valve at 
the head of the street. Of course, we can do nothing now except form a 
theory aliout the matter. We found our gas was pouring into the district, 
notwithstanding all the valves we could command were shut ; there was 
no means of getting access to all of them. I don't know the exact posi- 
tion of the sewer, but it was very near to our main. 

Q. The explosion in the sewer created a shock that broke your main? 



310 

A. Yes, sir; it broke our 18-inch main at that time, and that let 
the air into it ; bnt tliat would not blow out the 18-inch main. The sy- 
phons that were blown out were blown out of the other mains, which had 
but very little connection with the 18-inch main. This was an arterial main ; 
it had but two connections with Summer street, one 6-inch, near the 
corner of Kingston street, and another 3-inch, near the corner of Haw- 
ley street, which were entirely insufficient to produce such results on the 
water valves. What other explosions occurred through the district, I 
have no means of knowing, but Ave found our seals were gone. 

Q. Did you examine them to see if the water was gone? 

A. I can't tell j^ou what examination Mr. Durell made. It is bis 
business to look after the valves. I came into town between six and 
seven o'clock on Monday morning, and the moment I understood the 
situation of things, I ordered the mains to be cut. I felt that it wasn't 
safe to trust the valves any longer. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) Have you any means of ascertaining what the 
wastage of gas was ? 

A. Only approximately. The consumption on that night was about 
three and one quarter millions cubic feet. On Sunday morning, at six 
o'clock, there was no gas left in the holders. I think the consumption 
on the night before (Friday) had been about two and a half millions. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) That is, in the normal state of things? 

A. Yes, sir, the normal condition of things on Friday night. That 
would leave a balance of 750,000 feet to be accounted for. The town 
was lighted as for a festival that night ; everything was burning on 
Saturday night. Our rules have been, in case of fire, to let our gas go, 
for the reason that property must be saved. Tf we had shut our gas off 
that night, it would probably have added to the loss by the fire millions 
upon millions. Suppose here is a store in a street, and the fire ap- 
proaching it. The people are getting out their stock ; they light their 
gas, and when they are done with it, go away and leave it burning. I 
have not yet heard of an individual who went to a meter and shut off 
his gas. A number of merchants have said to me since, "' If j^ou had 
shut off our gas, we couldn't have saved our propert3^" 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) Did the propriety of shutting off the gas occur 
to any one that night, so far as you know? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) The propriety of not shutting off had oc- 
curred to you before ? 

A. Yes, sir. I shouldn't shut it off unless there was an absolute ne- 
cessity for it. That is, we prefer to suffer the loss of our gas, in case 
of fire, rather than that people should lose their property in consequence 
of being deprived of it. Think what it would have cost if we had shut 
off our gas that night on Franklin street ! 

Q. Ilow long does it take to shut these slide valves? 

A. It depends upon the size ; they work with screws. To shut an 
18-inch valve would take about three minutes. I shouldn't think it 
would take more than a minute to shut a 3-inch valve. 

Q. Ilow many valves were there in this district? 

A. I can't tell you. The important fact at this time was not the num- 
ber of valves in the district, but in the territory surrounding the district. 



311 



I think there were in this district something lilce twenty-five or thirty 
valves, and a great many more in the surroundings. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) "Were there a sufficient number of slide 
valves in the immediate neighborliood of the district to isolate it? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. You were depending upon the old water valves ? 

A. Yes, sir ; we depended upon the water valves, which we had never 
learned to distrust before. 

Q. Do you know any loss of pressure on the gas to allow of the in- 
troduction of air in the mains? 

A. Not unless those mains had been broken previously to our knowl- 
edge. In one of the mains just above Hovey's, there was a piece blown 
out three feet long, I should say, by, perhaps, twelve inches wide at the 
widest part ; an oval-shaped piece, that looked as though it had been 
blown from the inside outward. If that took place, of course that was 
sufficient to account for any explosion in the main. 

Q. If there was an explosion in the main, I can see how the water 
came to be blown out of .the valves, but I don't see how air could get in- 
to the mains as long as there was gas there. 

A. Of course we were not aware of all the damage that was done 
to the mains until subsequently to the fire. I had no suspicion. I 
didn't suspect, for a moment, that the mains were broken so extensively 
as they were by the fall of buildings. "We had occasion to take up our 
Milk-street main for the purpose of restoring gas in the Old South block 
and the Devonshire-street buildings, immediately after the fire, and we 
found that pipe broken in seven places between Washington street and 
Devonshire street. Those breakages were sufficient to let plenty of air 
into that pipe. 

Q. Could the air get into j-our pipes while they were under the pres- 
sure of gas? 

A, No ; but there was no supply of gas at that time ; it was all out on 
Sunday morning. The gas was all gone, and no pressure existed in the 
pipes. 

Q. The reservoirs were exhausted? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) I understand you as saying that these water- 
valves proved a failure? 

A. Yes, sir, I think so now. 

Q. In view of that, what would be your recommendation for the 
future? 

A. Slide valves ; such as we are putting in. 

Q. How frequeutl}' ? 

A. I have been going on with the work, with the view of gradually dis- 
placing the water valves by slide valves. For instance, since the fire, we 
have had an opportunity to put in twenty-three valves. During the 
present year, we have taken out twenty-two valve boxes and substi- 
tuted for them gates. This we have been doing wherever we had an 
opportunitjf, but feeling perfectly safe all the time with our water valves. 
1 am not awai-e that any other cit}' in the world has these slide valves in 
use. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) If you had had these slide valves supplied 



312 

in the place of the water valves, wonld there have been enough of them 
to have isolated that fire district during Sunday? 

A. That I can't tell you, without looking at the map of our distribu- 
tion and seeing the position. Perhaps it would enable j'outo understand 
this matter more full}^ if you would go to my office and see the great 
map we have of the position of all the valves. I have no doubt that 
district could have been isolated by going out far enough on its circum- 
ference, and shutting the gas off from the neighboring districts besides. 

Q. Well, if there had been a sufficient number of these slide valves, 
there would have been no trouble in shutting them, as to time, during 
Sunday? 

A. No. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Is it your intention to go on and displace all 
the water valves ? 

A. Yes, sir, in time. 

Q. In what time, probably? 

A. Well, that I can hardly say, because there are certain positions in 
which the water valves will answer pretty well for the present. In dis- 
tricts that liave granite buildings, I shouldn't want to trust them. I 
should want this year to replace all my water valves in those districts 
where there are heavy stores ; but where there are houses, where the fall 
wouldn't break our mains, the water valves will answer. 

Q. In all places where there are heavy stores, you mean to put in 
slide valves at once ? 

A. Yes, sir, during the coming year. The fall of a brick building 
will not break the main, unless it is an enormous building, like the 
old Gerrish Market. When that fell, it broke our small main, running 
through Sudbury street ; it did not break our eighteen-inch main, di- 
rectly under it. The rule is, to lay the top of our pipe three feet from 
the surface of the ground. Speaking of Gcrrish Market, recalls to my 
mind a fact in relation to that which is noteworth}^ in connection with the 
safety stops outside. When that building was in process of construc- 
tion, I said to myself, it is merely a question of time when it will burn, 
and I will put a water valve on the large supply pipe which goes into 
the building. It was done, but when the lire came, we couldn't get 
within three hundred feet of it. Our people were ready to rush in, but 
the Fire Department wouldn't let them. 

Q. Do 3'ou remember the explosion on Hanover street and Blackstone 
street ? We have heard something of that. Was it caused in the same way ? 

A. No, that wasn't from fire ; a break had occurred in the main from 
frost. 

Q. There was no fire before the explosion? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) Some of the firemen have reported here that 
when that explosion took place they were on duty at a fire? 

A. There was no alarm of fire occurred, to the best of my recollec- 
tion. Tiie explosion occiu'red about eleven o'clock, and I first heard of 
it from my assistant foreman, who came to my house, and I went down 
there, I should think about eleven o'clock that evening. The main had 
broken, according to the best of my recollection now, near the corner of 
Hanover and Blackstone streets, and leaked into a cesspool, and through 



313 

that into the drains fed by some of the houses in Salera street, and the 
explosion occurred in consequence of the explosive mixture reaching a 
stove in one of the rooms of a house in Salem street. 

Q. (By Mr. Piiilbrick.) Did it ever occur to you, that it might be 
worth while to put your pipes deeper than three feet, to escape the 
clanger of breakage from falling buildings, and by the frost? 

A. They have been kept at three feet because the water people elected 
the four-foot level. When we first laid the mains, we took the three-feet 
level, which was deeper than the level at which pipes were laid in 
Europe. The first European Engineers who came here were in the habit 
of laying the pipes as they laid them in London, two and a half feet 
deep. 1 can't tell you at what time our company began to lay their 
pipes three feet deep. It was before I had any knowledge of their 
affairs. When I came to their office, they were laying their mains three 
feet deep, and when I made the inquiry why that custom was adopted, I 
received the same answer that I give you, that the water people had 
elected to lay their pipes four feet deep. If we took a five-feet level, it 
would make it very expensive to get to the main, in laying service pipe, 
etc. If we took too high a level, it of course brought us under the 
action of frost. In St. Petersburg, I think their mains are laid five feet 
deep, to be below their frosts ; but frost in Boston seldom goes below 
three feet, at least in original soil. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) On this question of depth, the danger from 
falling walls was never thought of? 

A. No, sir ; I had no apprehension of falling walls. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) When j-our intended plan of putting in slide 
valves is completed, will you be able to isolate such a district as this? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. How long will it take ? 

A. That I can't say, of course, without having the number of valves 
which it would require to isolate it. 

Q. I don't expect an exact answer, but approximately. 

A. The valves in such a district would be six, four, and three-inch, and 
with gangs of men who understood where they were going, — of course 
the location of the valves could not be carried in the memory, and they 
are very frequently covered up with dirt so that they cannot be seen in 
the streets ; there can be but a few people who know exactly where they 
are, and know which ones to shut ; that is a business for which the Su- 
perintendent of street work and his assistants must be immediately 
responsible. We require everything to be put in black and white that 
we have in our underground work, so that in case of the absence or death 
of the individual in whose memory the fact is stored, it is to be found on 
this map, which is a very large map, and made to scale, and we have a 
descriptive book which shows the position of every valve, and everything 
in the surrounding houses. 

Q (By Mr. Russell.) How many assistants has your foreman for this 
work ? 

A. He has precisely the number of men which his work requires ; for 
instance, when we were la3ung this eighteen-inch main, he had a verj' 
large number of men, all the men he could work ; but his ordinary gang 
consists of about twenty-five men. These men are employed in the ser- 



314 



vice of the company the year round ; during the summer, in lading 
mains, and looking after the syphons, and the general care of the ma- 
chine, and in the winter they are occupied in looking after leaks. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) When 3'our proposed plan is completed, how 
small a district in the business portion of Boston will you be able to 
isolate? 

A. I have not yet made up my mind on that subject ; it is a question 
of expediency. Suppose a fire occurs, I will sa}^ on a long street, and 
is confined to one side of the street without a break in it, of course, the 
natural thought would be to govern that side of the street by a valve at 
each end of it ; but there might be reasons why I shouldn't dare to shut 
it off, or which would render it bad policy to shut the gas off of that dis- 
trict. Of course, I should wish to have the means in my control, but it 
might be utterly inexpedient to do so until the fire got directly upon us, 
and forced us to shut off the gas. 

Q. Don't you think it would be necessary to have the means to do it? 

A. I think so, and that is what I have been attempting to do, but which 
has proved utterl}' useless. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbkick.) Was part of your plan to have your valves 
at every street corner? 

A. No, sir. Our plan was to take it in districts. The theory of thor- 
ough distribution is thorough circulation. 

[The witness, by a diagram, illustrated the system which he proposed 
to adopt.] 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) By doing that, wouldn't you render the district 
dark, and do greater damage in that way ? 

A. Yes, sir ; I might do that. 

Q. Are these valves expensive? 

A. Yes, sir ; slide valves are. For instance, here is the cost of the 
ninety-three slide valves we had in 1872, — $2,301. The 12-inch valves 
cost $75 ; the 3-inch, about $15, which is the smallest. An 18-inch 
valve, of course, costs ver^^ much more. These two 18-inch valves, which 
I inserted in the 18-inch main in place of the water valves, were made by 
the Boston Machine Shop. The men worked night and day until they 
were read3^ There were none in the country that we could procure. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) How recent is this invention? 

A. I should think it is about thi'ee years since I saw the first valve I 
dared to trust in the street. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) You spoke about one explosion on Summer 
street, on the left-hand side below Washington — who told 3'ou aliout 
that? 

A. Mr. Greenleaf. He was describing to me on Monday morning what 
had occorred. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) There is nothing to prevent isolating any 
district, however small, except the limited number of valves, and the ex- 
pense of applying them? 

A. No, sir. ^V^c should not consider the question of expense at all, 
in connection with the public safety. 

Q. What I want to get at is, whether the presence of so many valves 
would be an incumbrance upon the sj'stem, in increasing leakage? 

A. No, sir ; I don't think they would add anything to the leakage. 



315 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) You would consider that such a number would 
add a good deal to your care ? 

A. Of course ; we would have to open them and keep them in order, 
and see that they would work when required to work. 
. Q. (By Mr. Fiiilbrick.) Is it an iron surface that slides? 

A. Yes, sir. It is«;subject to rust, of course ; but it has been generally- 
considered that the cock inside, at the meter, was an all-sufflc-ient pro- 
tection. 

Q. In the house? 

A. In the house, if people would attend to it themselves, and shut it 
off in case of danger from Are. Applications have been made since the 
fire, for cocks outside of the houses, on the supply-pipes. 

Q. How do they get at those ? 

A. With a key, through the sidcAvalk, down under the ground on the 
suppl3^ As I said before, we have found them utterly inoperative^ 
When we wanted to turn them, we couldn't do it ; they were utterly use- 
less ; yet there are large cities in the United States whose sole reliance 
is upon these cocks now. 

Q. Does that stem pass out through the top ? 

A. It is the shape of a T, with a square at the end of it, turning the 
cock below. The head of the cock would turn off. 

Q. How would you get at that cock ? 

A. There would be a pipe leading down to it from the surface of the 
ground, 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) From the information you have, what should, 
you say in regard to the turning off of the gas that night ? Did any- 
body turn the gas off? 

A. I don't know of anybody, except that Judge Russell has men- 
tioned that Mr. Endicott, of the firm of Hovey & Co., turned off their 
gas Sunday night. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) Supposing ever}' service-pipe had been 
turned off, don't it appear to you probable that there were leaks in the 
main from the shocks, which would have made considerable leakage? 

A. Yes, sir ; explosions would naturally occur where mains were ex- 
tensively broken by falling buildings at the time of a fire, and the gas 
bad opportunity enough to mix with air and form an explosive mixture. 

Q. So that slide valves are the only reliance? 

A, Yes, sir. That was the first practical conclusion I came to after 
the fire, and I so stated to the editor of the Gas-Light Journal, who 
immediately published it in his paper, that the fire in Boston had shown 
the utter worthlessness of every valve except the slide valve. 

You asked me a question, with regard to the consumption of gas on 
Saturday night, which I did not fully answer. I began b}' stating, that 
our consumption then was three and one quarter millions feet, and our 
average, two millions and a half, leaving 750,000 feet to be accounted for ; 
then I went on to say, that the whole town was lighted as for a festival. Of 
course, it would be only guess-work ; but my estimate was, that we had 
only lost about ten per cent, by the fire, Avhich seemed to be a very mod- 
erate sum — 325,000 feet on three and a quarter millions. On Sunday 
morning, at half-past one, I went into several shops, and said ta 
the people, " I pray you, don't burn 3'our gas in this way ; at any mo- 



316 

ment it may go out ; I can't tell when. There is plenty for ordinary 
consumption, but not for any consumption like this." So that, consider- 
ing that, probably only ten per cent, had been consumed by the fire, 
the idea didn't occur to me that any such loss could take place as did 
occur on Sunday. 

[See Appendix.] 

MALCOLM S. GREENOUGH, Chemist of Boston Gas Light Company, 

sworn. 

Q. What is your position ? 

A. I am assistant-engineer of the Boston Gas Company. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Will you state the reason why you didn't shut 
off the gas on Sunday morning? 

A. I left the office of the company about five o'clock Sunday morning. 
Having been there nearly all night, to see if we could do anything, and 
finding it impossible from the office, I went to the works and found 
that there was not a foot of gas in the entire city ; the holders were 
absolutely empty, for the first time in the history of the company. I 
supposed that it all came from the consumption in the cit}-, which, as my 
father has said, was enormous, everything being lighted ; so I set the 
works going to their fullest extent making gas. Mr. DurcU had gone for 
his men, and I knew that at six o'clock, he and his foreman would start 
round the district to shut all the valves, not expecting they would have 
anything like the difficulty the}' did. So we began to make gas as fast 
as we possibly could. I went down there again in the evening, and got 
the reports from the different men who had gone to the gas-holders 
to see what the supply was ; and then I found that the gas had been 
running into the ruins all day Sunda}-. Even if we had not been re- 
queued by the Chief of Police not to make anj^ more gas, we should not 
have continued to do so, after we had found that out. 



WILLIAM H. O'BRIEN, sworn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) You were with Mr. Laforme on the night of 
the fire, at the Union Savings Bank? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. When did j'ou hear an alarm of fire, or a cry of fire? 

A. I did not hear any alarm of fire. I heard a racket on the street. 

Q. How long did it take you to get there? 

A. We rushed down Bedford street to the foot of Kingston street. 

Q. What was the condition of the fire then ? 

A. I looked up Kingston street, and the roof of the building at the 
corner of Kingston and Summer was in flames ; perhaps a portion of the 
rear part was not entirely, but most of it was in flames. 

Q. Did you hear any alarm then, or at any time? 

A. No, sir. We went down Bedford street, turning around Church- 
Green, and up Summer street. At that time, the upper stor}', the fourth 
story, and the third story of the building, were in a blaze, and the flames 



317 ^ 

were so hot that I had to hold my hands up to my face to pass tbrouo'h. 
The first thing I noticed was their putting up a ladder, at that time,^n 
the building directly' east of the one that was on fire, and I made the 
remark (1 had never seen the process before), how nicely it was done. We 
passed further up Summer street, crossing the head of Otis, and stopped 
half wa}^ between Otis and Arch streets. A hose was laid there, and 
they were playing on to the fire. We made no delay at any of these 
points particularly. 

Q. AVas there any steamer there? 

A. I think there was a steamer at the corner of Arch and Summer 
streets. I am very sure there was, but I would not swear positively that 
there was at that moment, but there was very soon after. 
Q. Did you see the fire cross Summer street to Otis street? 
A. Yes, sir ; when it first crossed. 
Q. W^hat was done to stop it? 

A. I saw nothing done, and I remarked to ^he gentleman with mo, 
that it was strange they did not do anything. I do not say they did not, 
but I saw nothing. 

Q. Where did it take in the Otis-street building? 

A. It took on the mouldings, the frame-work of the windows, in the 
Mansard roof; the sill, that is probably what you call it. 
Q. That being of wood, I suppose? 

A. Yes, sir. There was an immense volume of flame coming out of 
the building in which the fire originated, and it made two or three at- 
tempts, and finally caught this woodwork, very slightly at first. 

Q. At that time, could the firemen stand in Summer street and play on 
this front ? 

A. Well, that is a pretty difficult point. There was an immense 
volume of flame from the fourth story and roof of the building which 
first took fire, crossing Summer street ; I do not know what the heat was, 
because it was some ten minutes after I had passed up, but I don't think 
it was any longer than that. As a matter of opinion, I should say they 
could, but I do not know that. 

Q. Do you know whether there were any streams carried up inside of 
the building, and thrown upon those roofs? 

A. No, sir ; I will tell you, that seeing this fire taking on the north 
side of Summer street, I said to the gentleman with me, " It is very 
strange they do not carry a hose through that store, and put that out ; " 
and from the time it took, I watched it for fifteen minutes, and it never 
decreased ; it was increasing all the time ; that I am ready to testify to, 
for I took particular pains to observe it, and remarked that it was strange 
they did not do something to stop that. I considered, as a matter of 
opinion, that that was the vital point of the whole thing. 

Q. Do 3'ou know how many engines wei'e on the spot at that time ? 
A. No, sir ; I do not. 

Q. What time did you say it was w^hen the fire crossed Summer 
street ? 

A. Well, sir, I should say it was not later than fifteen minutes of 
eight. 

Q. Did you consult your watch at all? 

A. I did not then, but I had an appointment at eight o'clock, and I 
consulted my watch at other times. 



318 



JOHN W. REGAN, sworn. 

^. (By Mr. Russell.) Where were you when the fire broke out? 

A. 5 Columbia street — ray home. 

Q. How long have you been connected with the Fire Department? 

A. About nineteen years. 

Q. At what time did you know there was a fire? 

A. At eleven minutes past seven. 

Q. Did you look at a clock, or a watch? 

A. Looked at a clock. 

Q. Was 3^our clock right? 

A. It generally is, sir. I have a fire-alarm telegraph in the room. 

Q. How did you know there was a fire? 

A. Heard somebody hallo fire in the street. 

Q. What did you do? 

A. I immediately went to Kingston street. 

Q. AVhat was the condition of the fire then? 

A. The fire was then in the three upper stories of the building, and 
down in the lower story in the rear, on the passage-way. 

Q. In the rear, were all the stories on fire ? 

A. They were all on fire. The three upper stories were on fire, and 
a part of the three lower stories ; that is, it seemed to go down in the 
elevator to the three lower stories. 

Q. What did you do? 

A. There was a building in the rear of it. I knocked at the door, 
and a joung man answered my call, and I asked him if he had a key to 
the door leading to the stairs, and he said he had ; and I asked him to 
open the door, and he did so. I then went to the front on Summer, to 
see if any of the department had arrived. I found there, in a very few 
minutes, the Insurance wagon. I asked the driver of the Insurance 
wagon to bring an axe, as I wanted to break open the door on Summer 
street. We tried it, and seeing that it would take too long to break it 
open, we gave it up, and went to the rear. I took No. 4's stream to the 
upper story of the rear building, and remained thei'e until the other 
building fell on to it. 

Q. Did you notice when the fire-alarm was given? 

A. No, sir, I did not. I could not hear it there, but before taking 
No. 4's line up in the building, 1 met an officer, and told him to go to 
the box, and give three more alarms. That was before any of the de- 
partment had arrived on the ground. 

Q. What came first? 

A. My impression is Engine 7, although I cannot say. She came in 
at Bedford and Lincoln streets. Hose 2 was the first apparatus I saw. 

Q. Can 30U tell me when she came? 

A. I cannot tell. 

Q. Do you know whether she had steam up, or not? 

A. I suppose she had ; I do not know. She is under my charge, and 
she always has steam up. 

Q. What did you do next? 

A. 1 next came out of the building into Kingston street. The falling 



319 

of that building cut our line in two. The engine remained on Summer 
street, and I sent a hosemau round to report to the Chief. I then took 
Hose 2, who was in the same building with us wben the buildino- fell, 
on to us, and put him on the dwelling-houses directly opposite, on the 
roof. No. 13 came and reported, in the mean time, and I went back 
again into the building 1 had come out of, but thought it was not safe 
to remain there any longer, as it was on fire up and down, and we had 
to come out ; and I got No. 13's stream to work in the street. After I 
came down from the roof where I put Hose 2's stream, I called Capt. 
Smith and Capt. Colligan into Summer street. I told them we had a 
terrible fii'e, and we must separate and attack it at different points. 
Capt. Smith said he would go to Chauucy street ; Capt. Colligan and 
myself remained in Kingston street, and Capt. Munroe went to the cor- 
ner of Columbia and Bedford streets. A short time after that, the 
Chief Engineer sent for me to go and get all the hose I could, and I 
did. 

Q. To Mr. Boyd's? 
A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Was that the first time you saw the Chief? 
A. I did not see the Chief this time. He sent the message to me. 
Q. Had you seen him before ? 

A. Yes, sir. 1 think I saw him half an hour after the fire had crossed 
Summer street. I saw him in front of Mr. Beebe's store. 
Q. What was he doing? 

A. He was ordering the building to be cleared of its goods, 
Q. Was he self-possessed, or otherwise? 
A, He was self-possessed. 
Q. After you got the hose, what did you do ? 

A. I immediately returned to Chauncy street, and there found that 
Capt. Smith had gone, for the Chief Engineer had sent for him to go to 
the north of the fire, and meet him. I asked if the Chief had sent for 
him, and they said, " Yes." I said, "It is strange that Captain Smith 
should leave this point." They said the orders were positive from the 
Chief for him to go. I then stayed in Chauncy street some time, and 
went to work on the store of Lewis Coleman and Co., and there stopped 
the fire. 

Q. What did you have to work with there ? 

A. My impression is that No. 13 was one of them ; No. 18 was one, 
and I think a Newton engine. I think we had three engines at work 
there. 

Q. After you stopped the fire there, where did you go ? 
A. I immediately went to the corner of Bedford and Columbia street, 
to prevent the fire getting into the Columbia building. It had then taken 
on the other side of Bedford street, in those dwelling-houses. 
Q. Where did you go next? 

A. I next went on Lincoln street, and cut it off there. 
Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) Can you tell us about what time you left 
Chauncy street? 

A. I think it must have been nearly twelve o'clock. 
Q. At that time, the old Post Office building (Capen's) was all burned 
up? 



320 

A. Yes, sir ; that was all gone, and the new building where they had 
put it out had taken fire again. 

Q. Can you tell me why that building of Coleman and Co. did not 
take fire on the roof, as well as the others ? 

A. I do not know, because I was not there at the starting of it. 

Q. It does not seem to have taken fire at all ? 

A. No, sir ; I never ascertained why. I never understood the con- 
struction of the old Post Office building. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) You did not plaj' on Mr. George W. Games' 
building, did you? 

A. No, not that night. 

Q. (By Mr. Puilbrick.) Did you take any hose at any time on top 
of the old Post Office building? 

A. No, sir ; that was done before I got there. ^ 

Q. Where did you go next? 

A. On South street. I cut off the fire on South street, the first dwell- 
ing-house on the left ; then I went down to Federal street, but I had veiy 
little to do. I found the fire cut off. I came back again on to South 
street. I left three engines in charge of the foreman of P^ngine 1. I 
was then tli/J only Engineer south of the fire. I then went to Washington 
street, and made up three engines, and carried them to the north of the 
fire, — No. 7 among others. It had then got to be seven, or half-past 
seven o'clock. I put No. 7 at work on the corner of Chatham street and 
Merchant's row. I then seized a horse and wagon south of the fire, and 
carried hose to the north until eleven o'clock in the forenoon. 

Q. What did you do then? 

A. I then put some lines to work at the corner of Milk and Battery- 
march streets, and some on Kilby street, and worked all over the ruins 
about the rest of the day, — on the Post Oflfice, and various other places 
in Congress street and Congress square. 

Q. Was there any want of water that night? 

A. Yes, sir ; there was a scarcity of water. At our first start with 
No. 4 we did not get water enough to protect us in the business. 

Q. What was the trouble ? 

A. That I never ascertained. We did not get enough water. 

Q. That was when you had the hose up in the brick building? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Was there any want of steam ? 

A. That I do not know. I have never made the inquiry, on account 
of this investigation. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Was there any other want of water that night ? 

A. Yes ; there was a want of water at the corner of Columbia and 
Bedford streets. Engine No. 12 stood there. We could not get but one 
decent stream from that engine, where we ought to have had two. 

Q. Did you know what the trouble was there? 

A. My impression was that the trouble was in the small water pipes; 
we have had trouble in that district for j-ears. 

Q. No. 12 had steam enough? 

A. Yes, sir ; she was in good working order. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) Did you have a reservoir in Chauncy street? 

A. Yes, sir ; we had a reservoir and a hydrant, both. 



321 



Q. Sometimes did 3^01; run the reservoir down? 

A. Sometimes we did, and sometimes we didn't. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Was there any other place where there was a 
want of water? 

A. Yes ; there was a want of water on the corner of Bedford and 
Kingston street ; Engine 3 stood thei'e. 

Q. The same trouble there ? 

A. Yes, sir ; we could not get but one stream. 

Q. Plenty of steam there ? 

A. Yes, sir ; plenty. 

Q. (B}' Mr. Philbrick.) Did you see that engine when it first ar- 
rived ? 

A. No, sir ; I did not. I was in the building at the time she arrived. 

Q. Was there an}' want of fuel that night, that you saw? 

A. Yes, sir ; there was a want of fuel ; that is, there was a want of 
coal, but we had plent}' of fuel without. 

Q. What steamer wanted coal? 

A. Number 3 wanted coal at that time. 

Q. What time? 

A. I think it was between ten and eleven o'clock. 

Q. What did she have instead? 

A. She had boxes, and various other things in the shape of wood. 

Q. Did you suffer for the want of fuel? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. Did 3'ou lose steam for want of fuel ? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. Any other place where coal was wanted? ^ 

A. I didn't see any. '^ 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) Did 3'ou see any lack of steam for want of 
fuel any time in the night? 

A. No, sir, I did not. 

Q. Did you see Number 3, or Number 4, when it first came? 

A. I took Number 4's stream into the building. I did not see 
either one of them when they came on the ground. 

Q. How long could Number 4 have been there, before you took the 
stream ? 

A. It could not have been there two minutes. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) You were in the building when it came? 

A. No, sir ; I was in the street when Number 4 run off, because I 
had nothing to go up into the building with. I took Number 4's 
stream up into the building myself. 

Q. Was No. 4 supplied with coal when she arrived ? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Did you see No. 3 when she came on the ground? 

A. No, sir ; I didn't see her until she had run her hose off, and got to 
work. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) What amount of coal did they carry ? 

A. Some engines will use more than others ; some engineers will use 
more than others, in the same time. They generally carry coal enough 
for an hour. 

21 



322 

Q. Was there any scarcity of coal in the engine houses in consequence 
the horse disease, that you know of? 

A. I never heard of any. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) How did the hose work that night? 

A. Very well, sir. 

Q. Was there any more than the usual bursting? 

A. There was not so much, that I saw. 

Q. How did the men behave? 

A. The men behaved remarkably well. 

Q. Was there any trouble with any of the men of the Boston Fire De- 
partment? 

A. There was trouble with one man that niglit. A citizen came, and 

reported to me that Badge , — I have forgotten the number now ; 

but he said that the man was drunk, and was very quarrelsome with 
officers and citizens, and I went to the place, but the man was gone. 
He has since been discharged from the department. 

Q. Do you know to what engine he belonged? 

A. I think it was No. 13. 

Q. Do you know of any other case of drunkenness ? 

A. I do not. I did not see any other. 

Q. Did you see any firemen helping themselves to goods? 

A. I did. 

Q. Where was that? 

A. It was on Devonshire street, upon my return from Boyd & Sons. 

Q. What time? 

A. About twelve o'clock. I can't tell exactly the time now. 

Q. What kind of goods ? 

A. My impression is they were rubber goods. 

Q. Were the^^ Boston firemen ? 

A. Some of them were. 

Q. What did they do with them? 

A. I told them they must take them off immediately, and leave them 
on the sidewalk. They said the store was burned down. I said : " You 
must take them off, and lay them on the sidewalk. You must not handle 
those goods." 

Q. Did the}' obey you ? 

A. They did. 

Q. Did they go to work immediately? 

A. They Avent to work immediately. I organized a company, and 
saved a large quantity of hose that was left in Devonshire street. I got 
them to draw it to the other side of Milk street. There was about one 
thousand feet of it. I asked whose hose it was, and was told that the 
most of it was from out of town. 

Q. Did you see any other instance of firemen helping themselves? 

A. I did not see any other instance ; but on Monday morning, one of 
the firm of Jordan, Marsh & Co. brought out a case of blankets, and 
commenced giving them to the Fire Department. As soon as I saw it, 
I said : " This must be stopped." He said : '' These are my goods." I 
said : " No, they are not ; they belong to the Insurance Company, and 
you have no right to give them away." I said: "You are making 
thieves of the Boston Fire Department." He said he was not. I said : 



323 

"Yes, you are. These men are wearing these blankets in the streets, 
and in the estimation of the public, they are thieves." He said : " Well, 
if you say stop, I shall do so." 

Q. (Bj^ Mr. Cobb.) "Was there any unusual delay in getting the ap- 
paratus to the fire? 

A. No, sir ; on the contrar}^ when I came out of this building, after 
it was crushed, I met the Roxbury Board of Engineers in the street, and 
I asked them how they got there so quick. I thought they got there 
quicker than usual. 

Q. Did they bring their apparatus with them? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. How was it about the city engines and hose-carriages ? 

A. I think, under tlie circumstances, they got there as quick, if not 
quicker, than they would with horses. 

Q. That is qualified ; this is what I want to get at ; whether they 
were any later than usual, in your judgment? 

A. No, sir ; not after the bell struck, they were not. 

Q. You didn't hear the bell strike? 

A. No, sir ; I know nothing about that, except from the report I got 
at the telegraph office. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) You did not see any explosions that night? 

A. No, sir ; I had nothing to do with that. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) Did you notice that that fire had made unusual 
progress when you got there ? 

A. I did, and I ordered three alarms to be struck, which would bring 
the engines from Mattapan and Neponset, having no horses. That was 
about five minutes before the Chief got there. The Chief and Captain 
Green were m}'- seniors, and they lived within five minutes of the fire ; 
but I did not wait for either of them. I took that responsibilit}^, that I 
suppose no man ever did before, and gave the order to have three alarms 
rung. I understood that an alarm had been given. When the officer 
went to the box, he came back and reported to me that he found an 
officer there, who was waiting for the first alarm to get through. 

Q. Whom did you send? 

A. I think it was officer Crane, of station two. 



CHARLES A. R. DIMON, sworn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) What time did you go to the fire? 

A. I was at my house at the time of the fire. 

Q. Do you belong to the Fire Brigade ? 

A. I am attached to it as one of the Secretaries of Boston. I am not 
directly attached to it, except that the Secretaries are detailed to have 
the general superintendence at all fires. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) What is the exact title of the Association? 

A. The " Boston Protective Fire Department Association." 

Q. What time did you reach the fire? 

A. I cannot say ; I should judge it was quarter to eight, or somewhere 
near there. 

Q. What was the condition of the fire when you got there? 



324 

A. The building at the corner of Kingston and Summer streets was in 
flames entirely, and the cornice of the store at the corner of Otis and 
Summer streets had then taken fire. I then met Captain Damrell, and 
reported to him. 

Q. What was he doing? 

A. He was superintending the placing of a ladder on the side of the 
building on Otis street, occupied by INIaflyn, Mullen & Elms. It was 
impossible to put a ladder on the side towards Summer street, owing to 
the heat of the other building. 

Q. How far from the corner of Summer street was the ladder put? 

A. I should think fllteen feet. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Was the ladder put up? 

A. Tlie ladder was put up on the building. 

Q. What was done then? 

A. I cannot say ; I did not stop there. I spoke to Captain Damrell 
in regard to covering up the goods of Maflj-n, Mullen & Elms. 

Q. What was 3'our conversation wath Mr. Damrell? 

A. I spoke to him of the necessity of covering up those goods on the 
first floor, and asked him whereabouts Capt. Green and the wagon were. 

Q. What did he say? 

A. He said he thousht there was no necessity for it ; that the building 
could not be saved. He spoke to me about the shortness of his ladders, 
and also of the diflicult}' of getting a stream up on that high roof. This 
was in the course of a conversation which was very hurried, as I left 
immediately to go down in search of the Brigade Wagon. 

Q. (By Mr. Thilbrick.) Did you notice whether or not the ladder 
reached the roof? 

A. It did not. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) Was it a spliced ladder? 

A. 1 think it was ; I won't be certain. I think it reached to about 
the third story. 

Q. Do you know whether anything more was done to save that build- 
ing on the corner of Otis street ? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. I understand you to saj^, that it was impossible to stand in Summer 
street, in front of the building on the corner of Otis and Summer? 

A. You could not get at the building on Summer street, between Maf- 
lyn's building and the building that was burning. 

Q. Now, in Federal street, what did you see? 

A. I noticed that the windows in the attic lofts of Rowland & Luce's 
wool warehouse (No. 114, I think it is) were all open, and the wool was 
stored right up against the windows. I tried to get in, shook the door, 
and a clerk came along, and said he belonged there. I told him I must 
get in and shut those windows, and he finally consented to have the 
door brol<en in ; and we broke in the door, and went into the upper lofts. 
The stairway was in the rear of the building, and the upper loft was 
packed from that stairway to the front, so that to get from the rear to the 
front, where the windows were, we had to crawl in some cases. There 
was hardly room enough to get under the rafters. When we got through, 
we found we could onl}- shut two of the windows, as the wool was piled 
up against them ; and the sparks at that time were coming in at the 



325 



windows from "Winthrop square. The middle one we could not close, as 
the wool was piled up against it, and the bales were too heavy for us to 
move. 

Q. Did you see anything further worthy of note during the fire? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) Referring again to the building at the corner of 
Otis and'Summcr streets, in your judgment, was everything done after 
you got there that could be done to save the building by the Fire De- 
partment? 

A. I should judge that the proper steps had been taken by Capt. 
Dararell, so far as it was in his power to take them, to stop the flames. 
There seemed to be very few men there working on Otis street. 

Q. In general, how did the firemen behave that night? 

A. I think in some cases very foolhardy, that is, reckless. 

Q. Did they expose themselves unnecessarily ? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. (By Mr. Greene.) You mean, in incurring danger? 

A. Yes, sir ; there was one case in particular, on Summer street. A 
building was burning there, which I knew contained fireworks, for I in- 
spected it ; and I immediately notified one of the Engineers, — I do not 
know which one it was, — that there were fireworks in it. He notified 
his men, but they seemed determined to get water up the stairway, when 
there was immediate danger of those fireworks exploding. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) In general, did they behave well or badly? 

A. So far as I could judge, they behaved very well. I saw them in 
several cases that night, and that morning, during the explosions. I saw 
Capt. Damrell again on Washington street, at the time Currier & Trott's 
store was blown up. He was giving directions then, and they seemed to 
be very obedient and very active. 

Q. How did Capt. Damrell behave? How did he appear? 

A. To me, he seemed very cool, sir. 

EDWARD H. SAVAGE, sworn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) What position do you hold in the City Gov- 
ernment ? 

A. I am Chief of Police. 

Q. How long have you been connected with the police? 

A. About twenty-one j-ears. 

Q. At what time did you first hear of the fire? 

A. I had been out on Thursday and Friday nights all night, both 
nights, without any sleep, night or day. Saturday night, I went home 
and went to bed a little before seven o'clock, with my pants on. The first 
that I knew, my bell was ringing. The fire had got somewhat under 
way. I don't know what time it was. I jumped out and put on my 
clothes. I went directly to Station No. 2. There was no one in the hall. 
I shifted the telegraph on to the hall. We have a telegraphic couimuni- 
cation from the Central Office into each of the police stations, and help 
was called by means of the telegraph that night. 

Q. What do we understand by your shifting the telegraph? 



326 



A. Ill the evening, when we close, (we close at six o'clock,) we throw 
the switch so ns to telegraph to that station, it being the nearest. Tho 
officers throw it into Station No, 2, instead of communicating to the 
Central Office, in the night time. Station No. 2 is but a few feet from 
the corner of City Hall, 

Q. Did you remain there through the whole night? 

A. Yes, sir ; I didn't leave there until the next Monday night, at half- 
past seven o'clock. 

Q. Did you sleep during that time? 

A. No, sir ; not at all. I slept a little on Saturday night. Besides 
that little, I did not sleep at all Thursday, Friday, Saturday, or Sun- 
day nights. 

Q. When did j'ou see the Chief Engineer that night? 

A, The first time that I recollect seeing him was in the Mayor's 
office. 

Q. About what time was it? 

A. Really, there was so much excitement, and I had so many calling 
me, and so much to do, that I have little recollection of the time. I 
think, however, it must have been half-past twelve o'clock. It was at 
the time that he was giving orders for blowing up. 

Q. What orders did he give, and what did he do? 

A. I was called for the purpose of furnishing police officers to go with 
those who were to blow up buildings, and was requested to give my police 
badges to the gentlemen who had the commission. The papers that I 
saw were given to different parties giving them permission to blow up 
buildings. AVhen they came down to my office, I gave badges to those 
who showed me those papers signed by Mr. Damrell. 

Q. How many did j'ou assign to each ? 

A. Some had four and some two. When they first came, they wanted 
four each, but I could not give them that number, and the last ones who 
called for them had two, I think. 

Q. When did 3'ou first see the Maj'or that night? 

A. I should think that I saw him within pei haps an hour or two. I 
should judge that it might have been eleven o'clock. It might have been 
later. It was in his office. 

Q. Do you know whether he had been there before? 

A. I don't know what time he came. I can't be positive whether it 
was eleven o'clock or not. As near as I can fix the time, I suppose it 
may haA^e been somewhere about that. 

Q. Did you have any conversation with him about the orders for the 
police? Did he give you any orders in regard to the police? 

A. I don't recollect that he did. I think that the arrangement for the 
policemen had begun to be made before I got there. As the fire spread, 
the officers had to fall back, and we had to call for more men to extend 
the lines. 

Q. How many officers are there? 

A. I have five hundred and twent^'-two to-daj-. There were four hun- 
dred on the lines that night. 

Q. What orders did you give in regard to the fire besides detailing po- 
licemen, and what steps did you take? 



327 

A. "When I first came, I sent for more men. Lieutenant Cliilds, and 
Sergeants Foster and Bates were in charge of the men on the lines. 
Lieutenant Cliilds was in charge on the Washington-street side, on the 
upper end, and Sergeant Foster was on the side next to Broad street, 
and Federal street. Sergeant Bates was on this side most of the time. 
Childs had the general supervision at the first start. The Deputy was 
there. 

Q. Were any orders of any consequence given during the night ? 

A. Yes, sir ; they were given at all times. I took one officer and 
selected out twenty-seven men for special service ; and the officers were 
detailed here and there, and everywhere. I suppose that there was not 
ten minutes at any time during Saturday night and Sunday but what 
there were some orders given for police. We were called everywhere and 
anywhere. 

Q. How many arrests were made that night for larceny? 

A. Our folks began to take in everybody that they found taking off 
goods. They soon found that there were a great many people carrying 
off goods who had a right to carry them off — owners, etc. They took 
in a great many clerks who proved to be clerks. They took off some 
three hundred persons, but it was found that the people who owned the 
goods had told these people to take them up and carry them off; that 
it was as well for them to carry them off as for the goods to be burned. 
In the majority of cases that was found to be the fact ; at least, we could 
not make cases in court. Capt. Vinal, of Station No. 2, had a dozen 
cases in one day, as he told me. Judge Parmenter said that under such 
circumstances, where there was a probability that tie goods had been 
delivered to persons of good character, we could make no case. 
On Monday morning, the Captains were all present, an 1 there were some 
questions as to what they should do with parties wli )m they had got 
locked up. I gave instructions to make a case against every party that 
they could. Those that they could not make cases against, of course 
they had to let slide. 

Q. Were there any convictions? 

A. About seventy odd they reported to me. The Police Court took 
jurisdiction. 

Q. What was the punishment? 

A. I don't know. They were charged with stealing from a building 
on fire. I asked how many cases were made, and they gave it to me in 
detail. 

Q. Can you furnish us with the record of all the sentences? 

A. I suppose I can get them at the court. Each Captain keeps his 
own ; but they do not always get them until afterwards. 

Q. Were not the sentences generally light? 

A. I think they were. We thought there ought to be more cases 
made, but we could not make them. 

Q. Were there many cases of drunkenness that night? 

A. There were very few. There were not many arrests for drunken- 
ness. There was very little drunkenness during the next ten days. 
They shut the shops up. 

Q. Tell us ho-v thorough the closing was. What was the order? 

A. On Monday morning, you recollect very well what the circumstances 



328 

were. There was a very large number of people here, and a large num- 
ber of military out, and a large number of firemen, and all the people 
were under a state of more or less excitement. I thought it was justi- 
fiable to remove, if possible, any exciting cause of disturbance. Mon- 
day morning, I gave my captains this order, — " Captain , stop the 

retail liquor trade, including beer, during this crisis," — and signed it with 
my name. 

Q. You did it on the ground of an exigency, not on the ground of law ' 

A. It was but for a short time. I sent out Mr. Ham with the men 
that were on secret service, with the same order ; and in a few hours a 
good many gentlemen came in and wanted to know what authority I had 
to shut off" the beer, and under what law I was acting. I said : " We are 
not endeavoring to enforce any law. We are endeavoring to remove a 
great exciting cause, which may create riot and bloodshed in our city." 
Then they said, " Why do you shut off beer?" I said, "-Because so 
many people get drunk on beer." The places were closed up remarkably 
well. Gentlemen who were in the beer trade came in and gave me their 
word that they would not sell any beer ; and I have good reason to think 
that a majority of them did not. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) Did you find much objection? 

A. When I issued the order, I told my oflficers to go out and give 
them my compliments, and ask them, from me, to close up. I gave it to 
all the retail dealers. There were very few reported that did not shut 
up. They did not say they would not. I gave tlie order that afternoon 
that if any man would not shut up, to bring him in to me. There were 
only a half dozen brought in. 

Q. Did all comply after that? 

A. I presume there was a little sold after that, and but a very little. 
In the month of November, 1871, there were 986 persons complained 
of for drunkenness, which amounts to between 32 and 33 per ([i\.y. For 
the ten da^^s that the crisis lasted, there was not half that number, with 
all the excitement that prevailed. During those ten days, I believe it 
was about 16. 

Q. Do you know anything about the gunpowder, except what you 
have stated? 

A. I know that my officers were sent for it. 

Q. Where were they sent? 

A. The first man that went out of City Hall for powder was Capt. 
Quinn. He went down to Reed's. Then I sent to Charlestown and 
Chelsea, and I sent down for the boat and the powder from that I got. 
The first lot was ordered to be carried to the new Post Office. But after 
the fire got up in that vicinity, we were ordered to carry it to Liberty, 
squai'e. I believe the heft of the powder, however, Avas left down at the 
end of Central wharf. My officers were detailed to get fuel for the en- 
gines a great many times. I sent two of them to shut off the gas Sun- 
day night, — the most reckless thing that I had done. 

Q. Where did 3^ou send them? 

A. Down to tlie gas-house. It was at the time that these explosions 
occurred. 

Q. Did they get there before it was done? 

A. Yes. At first, I supposed that somebody was blowing up more 



329 



buildings. I did not see wliy they should. The next thing was, that 
a Sergeant came in and said that tlie paving-stones kept flying in Wash- 
ington street so that he could not keep his position. I told him to fall 
back out of harm's way, and yet keep up as near as he could. Two or 
three other gentlemen came in as the explosions kept coming. Finally, 
one of the officers came in and said that they were blowing the covers off 
of the sewers twenty feet high ; and it occurred to me that the pipes had 
been all burnt off. There was a big 18-inch pipe in Summer street. It 
looked rather pokerish. I sent Lieut. Goodwin as hard as he could run 
to the gas-house. Somebody went to West street. I told him to tell 
Old Jimmy at the gas house to turn off the gas, or we should all be blown 
to the devil. That was at the North End — the gas-house, the only place 
where it could be turned off. Then I started the telegraph machine to 
Station One. Then I started a horseman. They got old Jimmy O'Neal 
out, and he shut it off. Lieut. Goodwin told him that it was the order 
from the Chief of Police, and that it must be obeyed or we should all 
be blown to atoms. 

The next day Mr. Greenough came in and told me that it was right, 
and saved some trouble. I believe on Monday night they turned it 
on a little again and had some little explosions. It was shut off Tuesday 
night, I think. It was shut off two nights. 

Q. How often did you detail officers to supply fuel? 

A. I guess I sent a dozen or fifteen, or it may be twenty. 

Q. How late in the night was that? 

A. I think I sent some officers for fuel for steamers down to the north 
side before I went into the Mayor's room. I should judge that it was 
before twelve o'clock. Their orders were to take the first team that 
they could get. 

Q. How did you hear that the fuel was wanting? 

A. It was reports from citizens and from firemen themselves. At 
that time there was an explosion, and just then a gentleman came in 
and said that there were two Connecticut and Rhode Island steamers in 
Washington street (he gave their names), that were in a nice position to 
play on the fire, and had not a pound of coal. Sergeant Spear of Sta- 
tion One came in just at that time, and I sent him up to Tremont street, 
to take the first team he could get down to Charles street to get some 
cannel coal. 

Q. Were there any other special orders that you gave? 

A. I don't remember now what they were, but I was giving them all 
the time. I was in the office, and they were bringing in goods, and, 
people were running after this thing, and that thing, and the other thing, 
so tliat I could hardly remember what orders I did give, without some 
one's calling them to my mind. 

Q. You remained, for the most part, at your office ? 

A. I stayed there pretty much all the time ; and I had pretty much all 
I could jump to while there. 

Q. Have you known any other cases at other fires, where goods were 
given away by the owners ? 

A. I don't know that I recollect any. I never saw a fire like this, 
where there was so much excitement. 



330 

Q. What was _yoiir view of the action of the militaiy during the time 
they were on duty? 

A. I think they did nobly, sir. There was a little fear expressed 
that they and our folks (tlie police) would not fraternize. But they 
were our old friends and neighbors, and we were engaged in the same 
cause. 

Q. Don't you think it would be a good idea to have some call or 
alarm for the military? 

A. I don't know, sir. On Sunday morning, we had 400 men on the line. 

Q. Do yon know at what time the}^ were summoned, — the 400, — and 
what time they were there? 

A. They were there I think b}^ twelve o'clock. "We kept calling them. 
When I first came tlie Deputy called some, and INIr. Cliilds. He found 
out where the fire was and sprang to the station house. They tele- 
graphed for men, and the Deputy got there before I did. When I got 
there I threw it off from the Central Ofl^ce, and inquired how many 
men they had got on the lines from each office and how many 
had been sent. I guess they got there about eleven o'clock ; 
possibly it was half-past eleven when the last squad came. Station 1 
had forty men ; Station 2 had sevent}' (all that they had in the station 
house except four) ; Station 3 had forty-two ; Station 4, sixty ; Station 
5, forty ; Station 6, forty : Station 7 (East Boston) ten ; Station 8 
(Harbor Police) fifteen ; Station 9, thirty-two; Station 10, thirty-three; 
Station 11 had nineteen; making about four hundred in all. I kept 
calling as the fire progressed and made ui}' calculations from appearances 
and from what I learned. 

Since then, our officers have been under instructions, when there was a 
general alarm given, for all the men that could to go to the station house ; 
and that night the men went to the station house — both the men who had 
been on duty during the day and those on duty all night. The day-men 
went on duty at eight o'clock Saturda}' morning, and some of them remained 
until five o'clock Sunday morning. They had been on duty from fifteen 
to twenty-four hours ; and in the morning we had nobody to relieve them 
with, and I said to the Mayor that we should have to have some help 
from some quarter ; that it would take four hundred men to relieve our 
own. I don't know but he did call before that. After the call came, the 
military responded ver}^ quick. 

Q. At what time did you speak to the Ma3^or about it? 

A. It must have been after daylight. I can't tell what time. It was 
daylight Sunday morning. Our men had had a ver}' hard night's work, 
and it was necessary for them to leave. There were no men to relieve 
them. I don't know of any means that the Mayor had of calling 
out the military before morning ; yet I don't know but he did have such 
means. 

Q. Did he call them through you ? 

A. No, sir. I presume it was through General Cunningham. I think 
he sent for that general. 

Q. Did I understand you that that request from Capt. Damrell was not 
to ring the second alarm unless the fire was higher than the second 
story ? 

A. I guess you have the order here. My recollection is that there 



331 

was to be only one alarm given if the fire was not above the second 
story. 

When the militarj'' came, I detailed them along the lines to take the 
places of and relieve our men. 

AVe kept two lines Sunday and Monday. On Tuesday, I took my men 
off the lines, except at certain points, and detailed them inside upon 
the burnt district, and then formed a line upon the outside, through 
South Market, Cornhill, Tremont, Boylston and Essex streets. That 
became necessary in order to get travel along, and also to cut off any 
rogues that we might catch. 

Q. Do you know at what time the marines appeared? 

A. No, sir ; I didn't see them that night. I understood, however, 
that they were on the lines before morning. 

Q. What time was it when the first company appeared? 

A. I think it was about nine o'clock. It might have been a little 
earlier. 

Q. How about the roughs coming here from New York? Did 5'^ou 
have any evidence of the presence of a large number of unruly men here? 

A. No, sir. We received a dispatch about half-past eight o'clock 
Sunday night from an employe of the telegraph, saying that there were 
fourteen car-loads of roughs that had left Springfield for Boston, by 
special train that evening. Shortly afterwards, I was called into the 
Mayor's room, and he had a similar dispatch. 

Q. Was there a name attached to it ? 

A. Yes, sir. It was " Atwood." I think I have the one that was 
sent me, and also the one that was sent the Mayor. It came from 
Springfield. 

I immediately ran down State street, around on the line where my 
men were with the military, and I got thirty men, pulled off their 
uniforms, and got them into hod-carriers' clothes as quick as I could ; 
and then I took twent}' men with uniforms, off the other side, and 
got Capt. Smith with twenty-five horsemen, and went to meet the cars. 
I telegraphed to Worcester and Groton Junction, and two or three 
places, but I never had any communication from them, and don't know 
whether it reached them. I sent some officers to the Know-Nothing 
Station. The cars came in at half-past eleven o'clock. There was 
about that number of cars, and a good many empty seats. We took in six 
men. I found that they were spoiling men, probably. I asked, "Where 
are the rest?" They said, " Got sea-sick, and went home." I have no 
question but what there was a large number of them that came as far as 
Worcester ; but they didn't come here. If they had, we should have 
had some fun with them. 

Q. Were there any cases of incendiarism during the week? 

A. Captain Adams thought there was one out at Roxbury. It was a 
case where some boys undertook to put some matches into a stable, ^ I 
don't know of any other case where the fire was supposed to be in- 
cendiary. 

We have some local thieves here, but I don't think we had an3'body 
from outside of Boston. There was no house-breaking or anything of the 
kind. I had a great deal of anxiety about it, and expected that the roughs 



332 

would come ; and so I carefully covered every point that was to be 
reached. 

Q. During the ten days after the fire was crime more abundant than 
usual, or less so? 

A. After the crisis was over, drunkenness began to increase. In regard 
to crime, we had but very little for the ten days. 

Q. Was there less than usual? 

A. There was no more than at ordinary times, — I think less. I have 
not looked it over to see just how it would compare, with the exception 
of drunkenness. 

Q. What did you say you thought about the plan of having an organ- 
ization of military to be ready at short notice? 

A, I hardly see how thej' could have an organization that would spring 
to their work any quicker than these men did at this fire. I don't know 
but it might be well. We have not policemen enough for such an emer- 
gency'^ as that. If we had had a thousand men, we could perhaps have 
handled it without the military ; but we could not have handled it with 
any less than that. 

Q. Is there any good reason why you should not avail yourself of the 
military organization which you happened to have? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) Have you had complaints of the loss of time in 
announcing fires either on that night or before? 

A. No, sir. We have had no general complaint, — none reported to 
me. 

Q. What would you say about the origin of the fire ? 

A. I had considerable anxiety about the matter of giving the alarm. 
I think it will appear to j^ou that there were four of our officers that got 
there pretty early. There were certainly two, and I think three men 
who got there thus early. Our man got there before the man who had 
the key and lived right opposite to the fire. I don't know but you have 
had him before you. The man who had the key told me that our folks 
were ringing the second alarm before he got there. 

All the officers carry a key to the alarm-box. I don't know who 
else has keys. The officers on the beat would know. There is on every 
box a note telling where the key is to be found. 

Q. From the best information you have been able to obtain, are you 
entirely satisfied that j'our officers responded as quickly as they do under 
any ordinary circumstances? 

A. I don't know why they did not. Officer Page was on Lincoln 
street chasing some boys. You have heard his testimony. Officer 
Moulton, who lives near, ran to the box without his hat. There vvere 
three officers there very early. The officers in going out at night have 
a great many papers, letters, etc., to carry ; and some if not all of these 
officers had been about distributing these letters and messages from City 
Hall and all the departments. 

Q. Are the officers specially impressed with the duty of giving an early 
alarm of fire ? 

A. Yes, sir, they have it in their rules. There is nothing that is more 
strenuousl3' impressed upon them. There was a special talk about it at 
the time of the horse disease. 



333 



Q. Do 3'ou know what portion of the alarms are given by citizens? 

A. Mr. Cunard, the Superintendent of Fire Alarms, could tell 30U. I 
think he keeps a minute of it. We make reports to him eveiy morning. 
The Captain reports who gives it and what time. Our men report who 
sounds the alarm, if they give it. If they learn who else gives it, they 
mention that. I think, if you summon any officers who were on their 
beats that night, you will find they were there ver}- early. I have no 
reason to think that they did not get there as quickly as usual. 

At first, I was afraid that they were deficient. I called thirteen of 
them to my office and took their statements. If they did not lie to me 
abominably, they did their duty pretty well. 

When a building is shut up, as this one was, a fire would burn a good 
while before it becomes conspicuous, if the fire took in the bottom. 
It was back in that alley-way, so that there were but very few except 
those that lived right opposite that would have an opportunity to see it. 



WILLIAM H. DURELL, sivorn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) What is your connection with the Gas Co. ? 

A. I am Superintendent of street work. 

Q. How long have you held that place? 

A. Seventeen years. 

Q. When a fire takes place, what is your duty in regard to shutting off 
gas? 

A. We have no regular instructions in regard to it, because it is not 
very often that we have anything dangerous enough to require the gas to 
be shut off"; but in case we do, I go to work as quick as I can and cut the 
pipes off and plug them up, in case we have no other waj-. I do it on 
my own responsibility. I don't have special instructions. If it is any- 
thing very important and I can get at Mr. Greenough, I should consult 
him first. If not, I should do it on my own responsibility. 

Q. How many men do you have to work with you on that? 

A. I have from twenty-five, upwards, according to the nature of the 
work and the time I am engaged in it. 

Q. How many can you summon to your help if j^ou should need a 
large force? 

A. In a short time I could summon forty odd men. 

Q. How often have j^ou done that at fires? 

A. I can't think that I have ever done it more than perhaps three 
times. 

Q. What did you do at this fire ? 

A. Saturday night I was not able to do anything. I did not know of 
the extent of the fire until after eleven o'clock, not being out until that 
time. In the night, it is almost impossible for us to do much of 
anything on that kind of work, and with a crowd around, we could not 
get at what we would like to. 

Q. When did you begin? 

A. I began Sunday morning, early. 

Q. How early ? 



334 



A. Well, I started at six o'clock myself; and ni}^ foreman tliat I have 
on went to the North End. We started about six o'clock in tlie morn- 
ing to get our men together. I went up to the South End and got them 
up as quick as I could. About seven and a half o'clock, I think I had 
about twentj^-five men. Then I went immedir-tel}' to filling a valve box 
that we have at the corner of Summer and Washington streets, and then 
I filled some at the foot of Summer and Broad streets — tilled them 
with water. 

Q. What others? 

A. Then there were a few scattering ones — small ones — around, one 
at Federal street, one on Devonshire street, and then some down on 
Broad street, that I filled that day. 

Q. Did you keep at work through the day? 

A. Yes, sir. After I had filled what boxes I could, — after I got par- 
ticularly the large boxes filled, — I put part of the gang to digging down 
and cutting oft' pipes where I could get at them. There were not many 
places Sunday that I could get into. The police kept us out. I had no 
way of getting into half the places that 1 wanted to get into. I told 
them what my purposes were. I could get through the da}^ police with- 
out trouble, but the night police did not know me, and I could not get 
through them. 

Q. Didn't you have tools with you? 

A. Yes, sir. But they would not admit us. They said that the}^ had 
had strict orders not to let anybod}^ in but firemCn. Tlien I worked 
farther off upon the outskirts of it. 

Q. What course did you pursue? Did you cut pipes and plug them? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Did 3'ou do anything Sunday night? 

A. Not after dark, no, sir. 

Q. When did 3'ou go to work Monday morning? 

A. It was about seven o'clock. 

Q. Tlien how long did you keep at work? 

A. All day Monday and all day Tuesday. . 

Q. By that time was the work done? 

A. Yes, sir. I thought I had it nearly all cut off Monday. We tried 
the gas and found we had not got it cut off. We shut it off. Then I 
went through it more thorouglily Tuesda^^ afternoon. We tried it again 
and found it right. We thought we had it all shut off, but Mi-. Green- 
ough didn't think it prudent tliat niglit, but thought we had better take 
it early in the morning, when we had more time to get around. 

Q. I3o you see an}^ difficulty in using tliese slide valves so that 3'ou 
could cut off any portion of the city from the rest? 

A. I have not, so far as my experience has gone. We have not been 
able to get anything to use until within three years. All we had tried 
to use previous to that would either get rusty and stick, or the gas would 
make them stick so as to cause them to leak. So far as we have had 
a chance to try them I liked them, very well and have had no trouble with 
them. 

Q. When you get completely provided with those, you will be able to 
isolate any district so far as you please? 

A. Yes, sir. 



335 

Q. Is there any trouble about it except the expense of provkling them? 

A. The only trouble would be arising from their leaking. They have 
what we call a stuffing box that the vertical sliaft goes through. That 
is packed with yarn and tallow. It is apt to get dry and get to leaking, 
which has been one argument against their use. 

Q. How often ought they to be tried ? 

A. What I have had in I have tried about twice a year. I never have 
had to repack any stuffing box. 

Twice a year was as often as I needed to go to them. I have had 
them three j^ears. There has not been much trouble in regard to leak- 
age. On reflection I would say that I did have to repack two last sum- 
mer. I don't think they could have been packed as they ought to have 
been when we took them. They had been in about eight months, I think. 
Otherwise than tliat I have not had to touch one of them. 

Q. Did you have to dig them out of the ground in order to repack 
them ? 

A. Yes, sir, because our pipes are not deep enough so that we can 
carry a box down far enough for a man to get into it. We have to dig 
them up to repack them. 

Q. You think, in the case of those two last summer, that if they 
had been in proper condition when put down, you would have had no 
trouble ? 

A. No, sir, I don't think we should have had any trouble. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) Do you think that many breakages of the 
mains occurred from the falling of buildings? 

A. I have not had a chance to see except in two places. In those 
two they were pretty badly broken. One was in Summer street, right 
opposite Thorndike Hall and the church. They had a 3-inch main there, 
besides our 18-inch one. That main was all broken up and there were 
pieces not more than one foot long. 

Q. Have you known cases before of breakage from falling buildings? 

A. I have only had one case. That was at the time that the Gerrish 
Market, on Sudbury street, was burned. The main then was broken in 
five or six places, so that we shut off" the gas and left it shut off all win- 
ter. At the late fire we overhauled the pipe in Milk street from Wash- 
ington to Devonshire and I found that the 6-inch main was broken in 
six places. I also found at the corner of Kilby and Central streets, 
where 1 stopped a pipe, that the pipe was badly broken there. Those 
are the only two cases that I have seen, except the 18-iuch main on 
Summer street. 

Q. Have you ever had them broken from frost? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Does it often occur? 

A. Yes, sir, we average from three to four per day all winter. Last 
winter I think I averaged four per day all winter. 

Q. Does not that incur considerable risk from leakage ? 

A. Yes, sir. You can't have gas come into a place without some 
risk. We try to be as cautious as we can, and work on them as soon as 
we hear of them. 

Q. Did 3'ou ever know so severe a season as last winter? 

A. No, sir. I think it was the most severe season for gas or water 



836 

works that I have ever known in the course of seventeen years' ex- 
perience. 

Q. If you were to begin over again would you not advise that the 
mains be put deeper? 

A. In some respects, I should. In other respects, I should not be par- 
ticular. 

Q. I mean on account of breakage from frost, when there must be a 
kind of upheaval? 

A. I have noticed that most of our breakages occur in a particular 
way, where they have dug a drain out of a house and we have dug 
rioht across underneath it. In the winter time it generally freezes 
harder in that trench than it does on each side of it, and the consequence 
is, in accordance with the theory that I have taken, that it operates the 
same as a lever, and will break our pipe off even with the side of that 
drain. I have had notices of hundreds of cases like that where they dig a 
trench for service pipe for water or any drain. We have more troub 
from that than from any other source. We have pipes that don't lie 
over eighteen or twenty inches below the top of the ground, and there 
never has been a leak in them, to my knowledge, since I have been on 
the works. 

In some cases it is about as well to be frozen solid all round as to be 
below the frost. Here in the city it is almost impossible to get any rule 
that you can go by. Last winter we found frost four or four and a half 
feet deep in the city, and even five feet deep. 

Q. If they were put six inches deeper would you not avoid a certain 
amount of frost? 

A. Yes, sir, we might. The frost would not be so hard either. Take 
it on the Back Bay the frost goes a good deal deeper than anywhere 
else in the city. That sand seems to hold the frost. 

Q. Would not putting the pipes deeper get them out of the way of 
shocks of falling buildings? 

A. I don't know but what it would be better on that account. Our 
pipe is a little different from the water pipes, being put together with 
cement. It is perfectly solid. There is no give to it. Whenever any 
jar or shock comes the joint will not give at all like a lead joint. 

Their water pipes not being broken is owing to their being laid a little 
deeper and having lead joints. Our joints are all perfectly rigid, and the 
pipes are stronger at the joint than anywhere else. 

Q. Would not the fact that the water pipes are deeper, account for it 
in part? 

A. Yes, sir. But as regards the frost I have my doubts about it, 
whether there would be anything gained. 

Q. Is there not a good deal less frost at four feet than three? 

A. Yes, sir. But I think the weight of the pile of dirt on top has a 
tendency to press it down. Most of our soil here in the city is not solid. 
Not much more than one-third of the city can be calculated upon as 
solid ground. I mean the foundation of it. 

Q. Is it not softer at four feet deep than at three? 

A. Yes, sir, I think it is. The top of the ground is trod harder. I 
notice that the first foot that we dig digs harder than any other. 

Q. Do you w ant any better bottom than good gravel or sand ? 



337 

A. No, sir. I might take it for such work as was done upon Com- 
monweallh avenue. With our deepest pipes, I have had more trouble 
than with those that lie shallow. In Chauncy street, I have never had 
to look at it for seventeen years. There is no knowing but it is as per- 
fect as ever it was. 

Q. Is there any practical use in these outside cocks that people have? 

A. No, sir, they will not work, and it would be dangerous for a man 
who just began to play on a fire to shut them off. All the good it would 
do is the shutting off of the gas from that building. Practically, they 
would rust very soon and be of no service. 

PATRICK H. RAYMOND, sworn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) When did you first see the great fire? 

A. [Examines his memorandum book.] On the evening of November 
9th, we had an alarm in Cambridge from Box 27 at 7.35 o'clock. That 
was the first intimation that I had of the fire. 

Q. What is your connection with the Cambridge Citj' Government? 

A. I hold the position of Chief Engineer of the Cambridge Fire 
Department. 

Q. What did you do on receiving that alarm? 

A. Upon receiving that alarm I responded to the box, as is the custom, 
and there learned that there was a serious fire raging in Boston, and that 
assistance was sent for. I despatched at once two steamers and their 
companies, and one hose-carriage with the full complement of hose. Sub- 
sequently to that alarm, we had a double alarm from Box 13. I responded 
to that box, and on arriving there I had another message that more help 
was needed. I then despatched another steamer with a hose-can iage 
tender having about 500 feet of hose. Still later, at 9.30, another alarm 
came in from Box 6. I then despatched the hook-and-ladder company. 
That is the amount of help that I rendered on that evening. 

Q. At what time did you come in? 

A. I came in the next morning to the fire, about half-past eight 
o'clock. 

Q. Where did you go? 

A. I went directly to the Merchants' Exchange building, where one 
of my steamers was at work ; and upon entering the building, Engineer 
Green, of the Boston Department, requested me to take command of the 
streams in that building, he being then very much fatigued. There were 
some four or five streams of water. I remained in that position until 
three o'clock Sunday afternoon, and succeeded in preventing the fire 
from passing north of the sub-treasury rooms, where the greater part of 
the water was directed. 

Q. You had charge of that building, and of the fire at that particular 
point? 

A. Yes, sir, at the instance of Captain Green. I think I could give 
you the names of the companies that were located at that position : 
No. 3 steamer, of Boston; No. 21, of Boston; No. 2, of Cambridge, 
and the Arsenal steamer, from the United States Arsenal. I think that 
was all that were inside of the Merchants' Exchange Building, over 
which I then had control. 



338 

Q. How did the firemen behave on these four engines? 

A. They behaved most admirably. When tlie dome of the sub-treas- 
ury came in, those men were inside of the room with myself, and they 
displayed a good deal of bravery. They did not forsake their posts, I 
can assure you. They fell back in a very orderly manner. 

The fire being checked about three o'clock, it was deemed advisable 
to dispense witli the services of some of the out-of-town companies ; 
and upon consulting the Chief Engineer of Boston, I made up — as we 
term it — the Cambridge 'companies, and returned home with them. 
That is all that I can speak of for that day ; but subsequently, on Mon- 
day morning, I sent in steamer No. 3, and it remained here until 
Tuesday morning about three o'clock. 

Tuesday morning, about twelve o'clock, I sent in steamer No. 1 with 
the company, and they renxiined until Wednesday afternoon at three 
o'clock. I was in the mean time with those companies, and during all 
that time there were relays of men detailed from the different compa- 
nies in the depai-tment, to come over and render relief to the Boston 
firemen ; that is, to take charge of certain streams, and tender their 
services. They kept that up until Thursday night in that way. 

Q. Did you see anything of our Chief, Sunday morning? 

A. I ran away from the Merchants' Exchange building, and took a 
course down into Liberty square, where the Cambridge engine was 
stationed, to look after their weKare. I found the Chief there. He 
recognized me, and shook hands with me right on the ground. 

Q. How did he appear? 

A. Considering that he had been through so much, I thought that he 
was the most collected man I ever saw in my life. It was John Dam- 
rell that I saw on Sunday, and nobody else. I have known him from 
boyhood, and went to school with him, and know his characteristics. 

Q. What time on Sunday morning was it when you went down there? 

A. 1 should judge that it was between quarter and half-past nine. I 
went to look after my engine company located in that direction. 

Q. Can you give an opinion as to how the fire was managed? 

A. I can only say directly what I saw at the time I was here. 

Q. What do you thinic ol" that? 

A. Tiiat everything that could be devised to extinguish the fire was 
being put into very effective use. 

Q. Do you think at the time you were here it was advisable to use 
gunpowder, duiing any portion of that period? 

A. No, sir, 1 did not; and 1 omitted to state, Mr. Chairman, that 
while battling with the flames in the Merciiant's Exchange building, that 
building was mined with gunpowder, and the firemen knew nothing about 
it. 1 wish to protest agaui«t that, and to name it as one of the most 
reprehensible acts that was connnitted during that w-hoie night. There 
was no notice given to the firemen about its being mined. 

Q. Do jou know that it was mined? 

A. I don't know, of my own personal knowledge. It was so reported 
to me. Also, that the vub-tieasury building was. It may have been 
immediately under that building and not under the granite building of 
the Merchuit's Exchange. It was reported to me that a whole sec- 
tion, in which a portion of the Post Office was located, was mined. I 



339 

did see five kegs of powder taken out of the cellar of the building join- 
ing Bond's chronometer store, on Congress street, by some liook-and-lad- 
der men. The heads of the casks were ripped out alter they were taken 
out into the street, and the powder was poured into the gutter. I saw 
that myself. That building had been seriously injured by fire, and the 
fire had been extinguished by the firemen entering the building and 
fighting it from the inside. It was a low structure. Those men stated 
there, within the hearing of m}^ men who were inside of the fire lines, 
that it was a gross piece of carelessness. Captain Zenas W, Smith, 
one of the Engineers, told me that he had been in that building and knew 
nothing of the existence of that powder on the premises. 

Q. Did you see anything else of gunpowder? 

A. No, sir ; that was all. 

Q. Did you see any of the effects of it in buildings that were blown 
-np? 

A. I saw the effects of the explosion at the corner of Hawes and Kil- 
by streets. I made up my mind when I saw that, that that square build- 
ing in Liberty square would not have been burned if it had not been for 
the explosion of that large building, for by that means the heat and 
flames were opened right upon the square building, and it was ignited. 
It was at that point that I met Captain Damrell Sunday morning. 

Q. "Was anything said to you by Cajptain Damrell in relation to the 
powder? 

A. No, sir. The only officials that I spoke to about the powder were 
Captain Smith and Captain Green. 

Q. Is it your opinion that gunpowder can be used with advantage in 
the stopping of conflagrations ? 

A. Well, now you have asked me rather a posing question. At this re- 
cent conflagration in Boston, I don't think, as near as I could see, that the 
gunpowder was of the least use in staying the progress of the flames. 

Q. Have you an}^ suggestions to make as to how gunpowder should be 
used, or as to what should be used instead of gunpowder ? 

A. I don't know that I would care to give an unscientific opinion upon a 
matter of that kind. 



WILLIAM E. DELANO, sworn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Where do you reside? 

A. In Charlestown. I am Chief Engineer there. 

Q. How long have j^ou been connected with the Fire Department? 

A. Some twenty years. It is my first year as Chief. 

Q. What was the first you knew of the Boston fire? 

A. I I'eported to Chief Damrell, I think, at about five minutes of eight, 
•on Otis street. I got the alarm over in Charlestown, and came over and 
reported to him, and asked if he wanted assistance. He said that he 
wished that I would send him all the assistance that I could, immediately. 

Q. What was the condition of the fire then? 

A. I did not go over into Summer street. But as near as I could 
judge, it was on all four corners of Otis, Summer, and Kingston, and 
in the front of Beebe's block, on Summer street. 



340 

Q. How did the Chief appear at that time? 

A.. He was very cool aud collected. 

Q. What did you do? 

A. I went right back to our city and struck Box 21 in the Square, and 
sent over a steamer and three hose companies, and stationed my oigaie 
at the corner of Franklin and Devonshire streets, and reported wiUi our 
streams at Beebe's block ; and the Chief told me to stop the fire from 
crossing Devonshire street, if I could. That is on the left-hand side of 
Beebe's block. We woiked there as long as we could, and then shifted 
on to the other side of the Square. We were there in Winthrop square 
from half to three-quarters of an hour, before we were driven out by 
the heat. 

Q. Was there any falling of granite there? 

A. Yes, sir, Beebe's block ; and before we left that position I had a 
stream up in the upper story on the left-hand side of Franklin street, and 
worked there some fifteen minutes in the upper story, and seemed to be 
doing a good deal of execution ; but the fire worked in underneath thena 
so that we had to take the men out very lively, 

Q. Did you have plenty of water? 

A. Yes, sir, we had a reservoir there, 

Q. Could you reach the top of Beebe's block ? 

A. We could on the side fronting the Square, but there was such a draft 
of wind that it was almost impossible to get a stream up on the narrow 
streets. There was a wide space in front there. There were three or four 
streams with us. • 

Q. Did you see the fire cross Franklin street? 

A. No, sir. I mean on the left-hand side of Franklin, coming towards 
Washington. One of our men was hurt in that building coming down. 
I attended to him. In the mean time, our engine was moved to the Old 
South. We stayed there until they blew up Currier & Trott's building. 
Then we moved to Court Square. We stayed there until everything 
was all safe. We worked on top of the " Transcript " building for an hour, 
or very near it. 

Q. Were you on top of the "Transcript" building? 

A. Yes, sir. We had hose .carried up right through the building. 
There was only one of our streams there. There was some other out-of 
town stream tiiere. I don't know what stream it was. 

Q. Where did j'ou next go? 

A. From there we got notice that they were going to blow up Currier 
& Trott's building. We went into Williams' Court first, and attem[)ted 
to attach to a hydrant. It was of a small pattern, and wecould not make 
the connections. It was in the centre of the court. We then went up 
into Court Square and took a station at the reservoir back of the Court 
House. Then we ran our stream down to the " Daily Post " building. 

Q. Where next? 

A. We next went from there to the corner of Broad and Cnstom- 
House streets, I think, and ran a stream through to the corner of Milk 
and Oliver streets, and were stationed in where the fire was stopped that 
afternoon at three and a half or quarter to four o'clock. 
Q. Did you have sufficient water there at the fire? 

A. When at the Old South church, we were bothered some in getting 



341 

water. There were three engines stationed at the reservoir, and I should 
judge that the supply pipe was not full, but finally we had plenty of 
water. 

Q. Was there any want of fuel that night? 

A. We did want fuel when we were in Winthrop Square. \Ve burned 
boxes, counters, and shutters. 

Q. Did 3'ou at any time stop for want of fuel? 

A. No, sir, the fuel that I obtained sufficed to keep up steam. We 
worked right straight along. 

Q. How did the men of the Fire Department behave that night, all 
told? 

A. I never saw them behave any better, or work any better. 

Q. Was there any flinching from the fire? 

A. Not to my knowledge. 

Q. Any intoxication? 

A. I did not see any among the firemen. 

Q. Was there any stealing from the stores ? 

A. Not by the firemen, to my knowledge. I saw a good deal done by 
outsiders. Our stream was stationed immediately opposite Weeks & Pot- 
ter's. When the wall fell and caught those men there and the two fire- 
men, our men went in to save them. It was my idea that the two Boston 
firemen were in there, but in conversation with the company they seemed 
to think that they were somewhere else*, and I supposed that they knew 
more about it than I did. I had the impression that all the firemen that 
went in to save those outsiders did not come out, and so ib proved. 

Q. In your opinion, was that fire managed well or badly? 

A. The general management, in my opinion, was admirable. I saw 
the Chief several times. We were there, and reported somewhere 
from eight, to ten or fifteen minutes past eight. He was with us 
in the different positions I have stated, and seemed cool and collected, 
and gave his orders in that Avay. 

Q. Can you now think of anything that could have been done to have 
prevented the fire from becoming so large ? . 

A. No, sir ; I cannot. 

Q. Should you know how to manage that fire better than it was man- 
aged then? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. What were the principal causes of the fire becoming so uncon- 
trollable ? 

A. The narrow streets and high buildings, and, as I said before, in the 
positions where we were in Winthrop square, the draft was so strong that 
we could hardly get a stream anywhere. We could hardly hold our hats 
on, and we could hardly live there ; but the men held out. On Wash- 
ington street we were more fortunate. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) When you first reached the fire-ground, you say 
that there was fire on all four corners of those streets. Did j'ou see any 
effort made to attack the fire at the corner of Otis and Summer streets? 

A. No, sir. I went to Chief Damrell directly, and I did not notice. 
At the time I got back, the fire had got out all over Beebe's block. It 
was coming out at all parts of the block. 



342 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) For how long was there a force here from 
Charlestown? 

A. We left at about half-past three or quarter to four, Sunday after- 
noon. We were there from about eight o'clock with four hose companies. 
We reported Monday with steamers, Tuesday with two companies, and 
Wednesday with one. 

Adjourned to Wednesday afternoon, Dec. 11th. 



343 



TENTH DAY. 

Wednesday, Dec. 11. 
BENJAMIN CALLENDER, sioorn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) What time did 3-011 go to the great fire? 

A. The first time, I should think it was twenty-five minutes past eight 
o'clock. 

Q. What buildings were on fire then ? 

A. The building at the corner of Summer and Otis streets, I think. 

Q. Will you tell us anything you observed that you think is worth}^ of 
notice ? 

A. I was in the upper part of Summer street. It seemed to me that 
only one of the streams that were beiaig thrown on the building went to 
the top, and that one didn't do any good. 

Q. Why didn't that do any good? 

A. That didn't seem to be able to put the fire out at all.' 

Q. Could )-ou tell why the other streams didn't go to the top? Could 
you tell whether it was owing to the want of water, or steam, or what it 
was? 

A. I couldn't, sir. 

Q. Did you see any steamers that had no fuel? 

A. I didn't, sir ; not that were pretending to be at work. 

Q. Did you see any insubordination among the firemen? any breaking 
into stores, or anything of that kind? 

A. I didn't. 

Q. Did you see any neglect of duty by the fii'emen? 

A. I did not. 

Q. Any intoxication? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. Was there anything else you observed, at any time, which you think 
we ought to know? 

A. I have m}^ own theory about the matter. I don't know as you want 
to hear that. I went from Summer street to the corner of Bedford and 
Kingston streets ; I saw an engine drawn at rather a moderate gait by 
men — 

Q. Do jou know what engine it was? 

A. No, sir. There was such a crowd, I was glad to get out of the way, 
and didn't stop to see the number. It came down Bedford street. 

Q. What time was that? 

A. I should thinK it might have been then quarter to nine o'clock. 

Q. Was there a crowd on Bedford street? 

A. Yes, sir, so large a crowd that I couldn't get through to the United 
States Hotel, where I lived, and turned round and went back again. 

Q. (By Mr. Greexe.) Was not the reason why the engine moved so 
slowly because of the crowd in the street? 



344 



A. I didn't think so at the time. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Did you see anything else there? 

A. That is all that I saw there. 

Q. Anywhere else? 

A. I then went to the house and stayed there until about half-past nine, 
I should think, when some one remarked that Anderson, Heath & Go's 
store was on fire. I then thought it was time for me to go to my own 
store, which I did by going round through Broad street to Congress 
street, down Congress to Channing, to my store, which was at the corner 
of Channing and Federal streets. 

Q. What did you observe there? 

A. I think nothing that had any bearing upon the fire at all. 

Q. Did 3^ou see anything further that night that you think ought to be 
reported to the commission? 

A. No, sir, I think not. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) You spoke of seeing an engine which threw 
a stream to the top of the building on Summer street, when you first 
arrived, — can you tell where that pipe was playing that went up to 
the top ? 

A. No, sir, I can't. 

Q. Was the other stream, that fell short, in the immediate vicinity of it? 

A. Yes, sir ; the streams were going up side by side. One of them, 
for aught I know, may have been from a hydrant, may not have been 
from an engine. There was such a crowd there, that I didn't care to go 
through it. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) Mr. Callender, do you think of anything that 
might have been done to stop the spread of that fire, that was not done? 

A. Yes, sir, I do. 

Q. What, for instance? 

A. I think, if horses had been provided to draw the engines to the 
fire, no such fire need to have occurred. I think that previous and sub- 
sequent fires substantiate that statement. I think that there was no 
reason why there shouldn't have been horses. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) You were not there before eight o'clock, 
were you ? 

A. I was not. 

Q. (By Mr. Greene.) You saw engines at work then? 

A. Yes, sir, I saw engines at work then. I saw, as I have stated, two 
streams going up at that time. 

Q. (By Mr. Pdssell.) Do you think that the use of horses, after 
you arrived there, would have helped matters much? 

A. I think if tlierc had been a suitable number of engines in the city 
proper, tliat fire could have been stop^^ed. 

Q. What do you consider a suitable number? 

A. I think, if I was on the committee of the City Government, I 
should insist upon their having at least twelve engines in the city proper. 

Q. That is aside from the question of the use of horses. Do you 
think horses would have helped the matter after you arrived there? 

A. Yes, sir, I think they might, because they would have got a larger 
body of engines there, and I think if they could have had a larger body 
of engines and massed them in those two streets, the fire would have 



345 



■been stopped there. I have very seldom been to a fire, but when I have 
been, I have noticed that the most etfect ht^s been produced by throwing 
water across, not throwing it up. I mean, if the building opposite us, 
for instance, was on fire, the most effectual way of extinguishing it 
would be to get a hose into this building and carry it to the top, and 
throw the water across, instead of throwing it up from the street. 

Q. Did you see any chance of accomplishing that, after you arrived? 

A. I rather thought, when I was looking from Bedford street, that if 

there had been engines enough on Otis street and Devonshire street, the 

fire might have been stopped in the building that lies between those two 

streets, in tlie manner I spoke of. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) You mean Beebe's building? 
A. Yes, sir. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) "Wasn't that on fire when you first arrived on 
Summer street? 

A. No, sir. I think when I first got into Summer street, but one 
building there was on fire, possibly there might have been two, but I 
think it was the building on the corner of Summer and Otis streets. 

Q. Did it look to you, after arriving there and seeing how little the 
engines accomplished, as if any number of additional engines would have 
accomplished much more? 

A. I don't think it occurred to me at the time, because I went home 
supposing this fire would be put out, like most others, and as a citizen, 
not connected with the Fire Department, I was only in the way. 

Q. Did it occur to you when you saw this stream playing short, that 
there was not water enough ? 

A. My idea at the time was that there was a want of power in the en- 
gines '; but as I said before, I don't know whether the stream that fell 
short was from an engine or from a hydrant. 

Q. Did you see more than one stream playing short? 
A. No, sir. I saw but two streams ; one seemed to reach the top of 
the building, the other didn't. 

Q. What building were they playing on? 

A. They were playing, or trying to play, on the building on the north 
side of Summer street, near the corner of Otis and Summer. I don't 
think I saw any stream playing on to the other buildings. I don't i*ec- 
ollect that 1 did, now. 1 didn't stay there, probably, more than ten 
minutes, at the outside, but I believe if the engines had got to the fire 
with the alacrity they got to the fire at Hand & Avery's, that fire would 
never have spread as it did. 

Q. You mean, if they had arrived on the ground soon after the out- 
break of the fire? 
A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Have you any means of knowing how soon they got there? That 
is what we w^ant to know. 

A. Not of my own knowledge, only what I have heard from difi"erent 
people. I didn't get there, probably, until half an hour after the fire broke 
out. 



34 G 



J. H. CriADWICK, simrn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) What time did j^ou go to the fire? 

A. About ten o'clock. 

Q. Your building, Nos. 22, 24 imd 2G Oliver street, is occupied by the 
Boston Lead Works ? 

A. Yes. sir. 

Q. Won't 3'ou state what took place after the fire got into Oliver 
street ? 

A. The fire that got into Oliver street came from the rear, in Pearl 
street, through the block of stores exactly opposite. 

Q. What did you do? 

A. We had in the room above some parties who were just experimenting 
in making half a dozen portable organs. I let^them have a small part of 
the second story, and didn't charge them any rent. They had their tools 
and stuff there up at the windows ; the frame-work and everything of that 
kind for the organs was there. About seven o'clock Sunday morning, we 
moved all that stuff back, and wet the windows, and wet the floor with 
water, and got everything out of the room, — the room was perhaps twenty 
feet across, — so as to leave no chance for the cinders to come through the 
windows and set anything on fire there. We moved everything out of 
the windows below, at the same time, and wet all those windows. It was 
exactly ten minutes past eight when the fire broke out in the block op- 
posite. I looked at the clock when it first broke out, and made a 
minute of it. We then filled our buckets with water, and carried them 
up on top of the building, and kept the windows wet, and wet the roof, and 
stamped down the fire, I think, for half an hour, until it fairly broke out 
of the roof of the building opposite. 

Q. What is the top of your building covered with? 

A. Gravel and tar. It was very nicely covered ; it had a great deal 
of gravel, and we could keep the fire down very nicely. Some very 
large brands came from the building opposite ; if we had let them burn 
there five or ten minutes, the}'' would have burned through to the roof. 

Q. Would that coal-tar furnish a blaze of itself? 

A. Yes, sir, it would blaze. 

Q. Througli the gravel ? 

A. Yes, sir. I never saw a building on which the tar wouldn't come 
out through the gravel, more or less, in the summer season ; keep it 
warm enough, and it will blaze in time. We had two or three men up 
there, and they stamped the fire out. We kept doing that all the time 
until the other building was burned flat. 

Q. IIow long was that? 

A. AVe were at it two hours, I should think. I came do'vn myself, 
and saw that we had got to go. I saw that all the windows were on fire, 
but I went through the ceremon}' of wetting down again, and went out 
and found a hoseman, who turned out to be a member of No. 2 of L\'nn, 
and I met Engineer Kimball of Lynn at the same time, and told him if 
he would give us a line of hose, we would save that block, and [ wo^dd 
pay him liberally. He gave us a line of hose from the rear. I opened 
all the scuttles on the front side of the building way up to the roof, and 



347 



we put a stream across from the second story on to the fire on the other 
side ; as soon as we deadened it there, we pulled in the butt, and pLayed 
up through the scuttles, and that wet the whole outside of our front, 
except the cornice, and that we wet with buckets. We kept doing that 
until the block opposite was flat, then we carried our hose on top, and 
played on the other buildings beyond. One thing that aided us in doing 
it, was the fact that the coving was stone ; if we had had a wooden cov- 
ing, we should have had a hard fight of it. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Do you think 5^ou could have saved it if the 
cornice had been of wood ? 

A. Yes, sir, I think we could have saved it if it had been of wood. 
We were bound to save it. I didn't move a thiug in the store. I told 
my partners that the store wouldn't burn; still, it might. Then I went 
and found Capt. Munroe, and got him to send down Steamer 12, from 
the Highlands, and stationed her at the corner of the street, and the hose 
was carried right down in front. I then got Capt. Munroe to go down 
in the rear, and I went down with him part way. I asked him to go in 
behind the store of Brooks, Robinson & Co., and see if he couldn't da 
anything to save it. lie said he had been there, but I asked him to go 
again, to accommodate me. I said, "We have saved this block, and 
we shall depend upon j'ou to save that store." I left him there, and I 
think he was there from ten o'clock until twelve ; it may have been half- 
past nine or ten. Mr. Damrell came there about nine o'clock, I think. 
He came into the rear of the store. I met him just he came in, as I wa» 
going up stairs. I asked him how he did. He said, " I am used up." 
" Well," said I, " it is a pretty hard time." Said he, " Can I go up on 
the roof of this building ? " Said I, " Yes," and I went up ahead of him, 
and we went on to the roof, and went along on to the next store in the 
same block, which was occupied by May & Co. The scuttle was down, 
and he said, " I want to pull that scuttle up. I want to go down that 
way." Said I, '" There is no need of your going down there, you can 
go down through my store." He said, " I want to go through there ;" 
so I called two or three men, and they pulled up the scuttle. He went 
down that wa}', and I didn't see anything more of him. 

Q. When you saw him, how did he appear? 

A. He appeared used up. 

Q. How did the firemen work? 

A. The firemen worked very well ; they were encouraged, you know. 

Q. Did you see any disposition to loaf at any time? 

A. No, sir. This was a Lynn company we had. The Chief Eugineei* 
of Lynn was a very pleasant man, but he appeared to be a little demor- 
alized ; didn't seem to be quite equal to the occasion ; still, he did very 
well. I have no fault to find with him. 

Q. Did any of you get scorched at all ? 

A. No, sir. I found the men wouldn't go unless some one would go 
ahead, and I went ahead myself and stood in advance of the pipe all the 
time. I said to the men, '' I will stay here as long as you do." Engine 
No. 12 was stationed right on the corner of the street, and I said to 
Capt. Southwick, " I want you to stick by." He said, " I will stick by 
as long as you do." I told him, " If there is any danger, you have a 
chance to get out, but I have not." I am satisfied we should have lost 



348 



our store, if I hadn't been there ; that is my feeling about it. You can 
ask my partners ; they went out of the back door, and said they were 
not coming back. 

There was not an engine playing on the fire in High street, except the 
first part of it. There was an engine in there at first, but they had to 
run up with the engine ; but they were right in the middle of the street. 
Thoy didn't go into the block on the other side and play on the buildiugs 
on the other side, as we did in our store ; if they had done so, every 
stream of water would have gone across the street with the effect it did 
in our case. If you were in the third story of a building, you could 
reach out of a window and play on to the cornice of the building 
opposite. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) Did you see -where the engine was that fur- 
nished you with water? 

A. I think the engine that furnished us with water was in the rear, on 
the corner of Batter3'march and Broad. I should say that we were 
troubled about water. It seemed as though it was six months, but it 
probably wasn't more than two or three minutes. It was only a very 
sliort time, long enough, probably, to fill the pipes after the water had 
all ])een drawn out. 

Q. The engine wasn't out of steam? 

A. I don't think it was. I didn't go down to the engine ; they sung 
out, " We are short of water," and then we had to wait two or three 
minutes. 

Q. (By Mr. Piiilbrick.) Did the fire go through High street from 
end to end? 

A. Yes, sir, it went right along on the covings. It started on the lower 
end of High street, and went right through the street. 

Q. Do you recollect how long it took the fire to go through High 
street? 

A. I should say that it didn't take more than an hour and a half; it 
may have been two hours. 

WILLIAM F. BROOKS, sioorn. 

Q. (By Mr. EussELL.) You are a member of the City Council? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. What time did you go to the fire? 

A. As nearly as I can judge, I should say it might have been from 
half-past ten to eleven o'clock when I arrived there. 

Q. (By 'My. Cobb.) Where was the fire when you got there ; how far 
•had it extended ? 

A. It was tlien in Franklin Square. 

Q. (By Mr. Kussell.) Did you see it cross from one side to the 
other ; or was it on both sides? 

A. It was on both side.s of the street when I arrived there, 

Q. What did you see that you think we ought to know? 

A. I only went from place to place, to see where I might do anything 
that might be useful ; to see if anything was not properly managed by 
the Fire Department. I saw nothing that would warrant me in saying 
that the department did not do the best they could, under the circum- 



349 

etances. I thought at the tirae, and raade the remark, I think, to some- 
raombers of the City Government and some gentlemen who were with me, 
that the attempt to blow up buildings Avas a mistake ; I consider that a 
perfect failure. It seemed to me that the Fire Department lacked 
power ; that is, there did not seem to be department enough to cope 
with such a fire as that. For instance, on Federal street, when the fire 
first struck the long block there, I took out my watch and timed it, and 
it was only fifteen minutes before the walls began to fall. It didn't 
seem to me that any firemen's life was safe who attempted to play 
upon those buildings ; the streets were so narrow and the buildings so 
high. It was a large block of granite stores. I do not know how many 
stores there were in the block. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) How many stores should you think there were 
in that block ? 

A. I think there were five stores. I consider that the firemen did all 
that mortal men could do, under the circumstances, and I so remarked 
the next day. 

Q. Did you see the Chief that night? 

A. Yes, sir, several times. 

Q. How did he appear? 

A. Perfectly calm and cool, as I have met him on many occasions at 
large fires ; for instance, the large fire at East Boston. 

ROBERT C. NICHOLS, sworn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) What time did you go to the fire on the night 
of Nov. 9 ? 

A. I left my house at the Highlands about half-past nine o'clock. 

Q. What time did you go to the City Hall? 

A. I went to the City Hall between twelve and one o'clock. Ingoing 
to the City Hall the first time,- I met Mr. Burt, the postmaster, and 
he asked me if I would accompany him. I did so. We went to the 
station house, and asked for the Mayor. They knew nothing of the 
thereabouts of the Mayor. We then inquired who had charge of the 
City Hall, and we went into the basement of the building accompanied 
by a lieutenant of the second station, met the oflScer having charge of 
the building, and Mr. Burt inquired for the Mayor. The officer said: 
"The Mayor left here a few minutes ago ; about fifteen minutes since." 
Mr. Burt said : "The city is being burned, and the City Hall is all in 
darkness; we want to find the Mayor. We want the Boaid of Alder- 
men ; we want them up stairs. We want the Chief of the Fire Depart- 
ment here in the building ; he should make this his head-quarters. Now, 
I want you to go up stairs, and light up the Aldermen's room, the May- 
or's room, and the whole building ; light it all up." 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) Did you know who that officer was? 

A. No, sir ; the officer turned round and said to me : " Who is this 
man who gives these orders?" Said I: "This is Mr. Burt, postmaster 
of Boston." Mr. Burt asked me to accompany him to the fire in search 
of the Mayor, and perhaps some Aldermen. We went down School 
street, but could not get near the Old South, so we went down Spring 
lane, and through Devonshire^ street on to Milk street, near the new 



350 

Post Oflice building ; and oontinned our walk down through High to Pur- 
chase street and through Pearl, talking with some of the policemen oc- 
<3asionnlly, and making the same inquiry ; if they had seen the Mayor or 
any of the Board of Aldermen. AViien we got back to tlie City Hal!, we 
found the building ligiitcd up. We found ex-Mayor IShurtleff going up 
to ihe Mayor's room, and spoke with hira on the stairs. Our conversa- 
tion at the station house, by me especially, was if there was any way 
to telegraph an alarm to bring out the militia. The ofBcers informed us 
that there was no such alarm ; that there was no way to get out the 
militia. I saw the necessity of having the militia out as soon as possi- 
ble, and I suppose General Burt did. When we went into the Mayor's 
Toom, we found the Mayor there, and Gen. Burt said: ''Mr. Mayor, 
what is going to be done? The city is all burning up, and there is noth- 
ing being done. There is no head governing this fire, or having charge 
of it." The Mayor said he was willing to do anything it was in his 
power to do. Tlie Chief of the Fire Department, Mr. Damrell, sat at a 
desk, and Mr. Burt addressed his conversation to hira then, more par- 
ticdlaily. He said to him : " Why are not the gates of the Common 
opened, to allow people to cart their goods there ; that is a good place 
to deposit them, and the station houses are all full." The Chief of the 
Fire Department said : " I will authorize any one to go and open the 
gates of the Common." Said he : " How do I kuovy where to get the 
keys ; how can I open them ?" Said he : " If you cannot get the keys, I 
authorize the gates to be broken down." 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) Who said that? 

A. Mr. Damrell. 

Q. To whom was it addressed? 

A. Mr. Burt. Then Mr. Burt said there was only one way to stop 
the fire, and that was by blowing up buildings; there should be powder 
obtained and buildings should be blown up ; and I understood Mr. Dam- 
rell to sa}^ that lie had attended to that, i>v that he was going' to attend 
to it. I will not swear distinctly which, whether he had attended to it, 
or was going to. I thought we could obtain the marines by sending to 
the INavy Yard, and suggested to Mayor Gaston going over for the 
marines. He said yes, ho wished I would do so. I asked him for a 
written order, and he said that was not necessary ; just carry his respects 
to the Commodore, and say he would like the marine corps, just as many 
as he could spare, to come over and go on duty. I then said to Mr. 
Burt, as I left the room : " I am going to Charlestown for the marme 
oorps." I took a carriage at the Parker House, and went to the Com- 
modore's private residence, rang the bell, and he came to the door. I 
told liini my errand, and he said he would do anything in his power to 
aid the authorities of Boston ; that he had already sent over two steam 
fire-engines, all he Iiad in the yard, and 1 understood him to say that 
parties liad been there lor powder, or that he had sent some. He asked 
me in regard to blowing up tlie buildings, and I told him I understood it 
was in charge of a naval officer. He wanted to know the name of the 
officer, anil 1 told him I did not understand the name of the officer. Mr. 
Damrell, or some one in the Mayor's room, told me that tiie powder was 
to be in charge of a naval officer, and 1 so stated to Commodore Parrott. 
Commodore Parrott called his officers, and directed them to get the 



351 



guard ready, and I returned to the City Hall, and notified Mayor Gas- 
ton that the marines would be over. They were to report at City Hall. 
I obtained a policeman's badge, by order of the Mayor, and remained on 
duty doing police work until some time after the troops arrived. I car- 
ried quite a number of men into the station house, and unloaded them of 
large quantities of boots and shoes. I found I was about the only one 
attending to that business, and soon got sick of it, and left ; it was too 
much. 

Q. What time did j'^ou start for Charlestown? 

A. It must have been nearly two o'clock. 

Q. Did you impress a carriage? 

A. I did. There were four gentlemen in a carriage just turning away 
from the Parker House. I told the agent of the carriage that I had an 
order from the Maj-or of the city to go to the Charlestown Navy Yard 
for a marine corps, and I wanted that carriage, and must have it. He 
ordered the men out and I got in. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) Do you know any thing about the use of gunpowder 
that night? 

A. No, sir ; only I heard explosions and saw a carriage driving round 
the streets near the fire, said to contain packages of gunpowder. 

There was one matter in regard to Mr. Burt that I did not mention. 
When Mr. Burt and myself went into the Mayor's room, the Maj^or said : 
" I am willing to do anj'thing in m}' power that can be done." He then 
asked what could be done. Mr. Burt said : " We can get citizens 
enough to volunteer, and organize them into companies, and put squads 
into the different streets under the charge of diflTerent citizens ; " and he 
volunteered to take charge of one of the squads, who were to be placed 
in each street, with supreme authority coming from the Chief Engineer. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) Supreme power to do what? 

A. To have control of the streets, and the people in the streets. His 
idea was to have a squad in each'street. 

Q. (By Mr. PniLBRiCK.) To do police duty? 

A. To do police duty. I think Doctor Ainsworth was present, with 
others, and they said they were willing to do anything of the kind. My 
object in going to the City Hall was to tender my services as police in 
case they were needed. This remark was made by Mr. Burt, and the 
Chief Engineer sat down and wrote an order, which he gave to Mr. Burt. 
The nature of that order I do not know. 



ELEAZER W. THATCHER, sworn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Where were you on the night of the State-street 
fire? 

A. Near Atlantic avenue. 

Q. Did you observe the fire? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. What did you see? 

A. I saw smoke coming from the top of the building. 

Q. Did you try to give the regular alarm? 

A. I tried to find a policeman, and cried fire. ^ 



352 

Q. (By Mr. Philcrtck.) Do you know what time that was? 

A. It was twenty minutes of ten when I discovered the fire. 

Q. (By Mr, Russell.) Did you find an oflieor? 

A. I saw a man who wanted to know wliat the trouble was, and I told 
him there was a large fire in State-street block. He said : " All right,'* 
and started on a run. I supposed he was a policeman. 

Q. Didn't you give the alarm? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. Do you know what time the alarm was given that night? 

A. It was given at eight minutes past ten. 

Q. (By Mr, Cobb.) How long after you had given the alarm by cry- 
ing fire ? 

A. Twenty-eight minutes. I took particular notice of the time. It 
was eight minutes after I saw the man before the alarm was given. That 
was twenty-eight minutes after I first saw the fire. 

Q. You didn't know anything about any trouble with the fire-alarm 
boxes that night? 

A. Afterwards, I asked the man how it happened that he was so long 
giving the alarm, and he said one of the boxes — either sixteen or 
seventeen, I don't remember which — was out of order, and he had to go 
to anol her box, 

Q. Do yon know who the man was ? 

A. No, sir ; I don't. 



GEORGE B, UPTON, stuom. 

Q. (By Mr, Russell,) You were at the head of the Fire Department 
of Nantucket in what 3'ear? 

A. For a number of j-ears, down to 1845. 

Q. You were an advocate of the use of gunpowder and carried it through 
the town meeting, that it might be used in case of fire? 

A. Yes, sir. Nantucket was then a compact, wooden city of about 
10,000 inhabitants, 

Q. Was that vote passed before the great fire in Nantucket? 

A. It was before either of the great fires. The fire that destroyed the 
most property was the first fire, in 1842 or 1843. Then they had one in 
184G which destroyed many dwelling-houses. 

Q. You were head of the Fire Department at that time? 

A. I was, up to 1845. 

Q. In what year did you begin? 

A. \l was some years prior to 1842. 

Q. Did you try any experiments with gunpowder before the fire took 
pla(;e ? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Go on and state all about the matter. 

A. It was a wooden town. Thesupply of water was moderate, by cisterns ; 
and it always seemed to me that if tlioy had a severe fire, we sliould have 
to resort to powder. I had some correspondence about the use of powder. 
I think, upon writing to Hartford, I was informed that powder would not 
blow down a wooden buildinc;. A man had a mill which he wauted de- 



353 



stroyed, and I got him to let me try the experiment upon it. I tried it, 
and was entirely successful and blew it down. 

Q. What was the size of the building? 

A. It was a building of considerable size. One of those old-fashioned, 
oak-framed wind-mills. Whereupon, the town voted to give the Fire 
Department libert}" to prepare to use powder, and I prepared it. 

Q. Wuat preparation did you make ? 

A. I prepared it, according to the best information that I had, in 
stout, iron-bound casks of about forty gallons capacity each — fifty or 
sixty pounds of powder in each. It was put in loose. That is the secret 
in regard to the use of powder. 

I will state here, for your information, that to get the full effect from 
powder you must give it surface. I have seen the experiment tried, of 
taking the head out of a cask of powder and dropping a coal into it. The 
effect was that three-quarters of the powder blew away, and didn't ex- 
plode. 

Q. You don't get surface in a cartridge in a gun ? 

A. That is a very small amount. If you will try the experiment of 
putting in an ordinary charge of powder without any shot, and firing it 
at a piece of paper, you will find that you can go and pick out 
the kernels of powder out of the piece of paper, showing that 
you want a gradual combustion of powder, and that you want to follow 
up the ball after it starts, clear up to the muzzle of the gun. In blowing 
buildings, j'ou want the powder all to explode at once. You will find 
that if the powder is in a compact form in a cask, that it will not all ex- 
plode, but that a considerable portion of it will blow away. 

Q. What was this powder that 3'ou used for blowing down buildings? 

A. We had to use ordinary cask powder. The kind of powder re- 
quired would be that with a very large grain. I think that no city or 
town should have an organized Fire Department, without having con- 
nected with that department a powder department, entirely under con- 
trol of the Fire Department. I have given the matter more or less con- 
sideration, and I should say what was needed was an iron cylinder with 
a handle at each end, and a hundred pounds of powder in it. It need 
not be made very heavy. The cylinder should weigh from 100 to 150 
pounds. Two men could easily take that by the handles and carry it 
whei'e it would blow down almost any building in town. A cjdinder of 
that kind would give the powder a chance to lie loose. You would want 
a cylinder of just such dimensions that two men could carry it. Such a 
cylinder could be made to hold from 50 to 60 gallons. 

Q. You think it ought not to be full of powder ? 

A. Oh, no, nothing approximating to that. 

Q. What was the result with you? 

A. The first house that I applied it to was a large double bouse, with 
two front rooms and an old-fashioned entry running through the house. 
I took the powder into the cellar and exploded it, and the building came 
flat down. 

Q. How did you get the powder into the house? 

A. One man and myself went in with it. 

Q. What sort of a fuse did you use ? 

A. We had no fuse. I had seen the men blow rocks, and the only 

23 



354 

idea I had about it was to knock the bnng out of the cask and put some 
tow into it and set fire to the tow. Every building I fired came down 
flat. I think I fired seven. They not only fell flat, but there was very 
little fire about them, and no fire was communicated from the explosion. 
One engine, if I remember, took care of them after that. We stopped 
the fire entirely by that means. 

Q. Did you ever have occasion to use it again? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. What kind of buildings were these? 

A. Five of these were large dwelling-houses, one was a large boat- 
builder's shop, and I forget what the other was used for. 

Q. Were all of the buildings of wood ? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Do you know whether they kept up this same system afterwards ? 

A. Tliey undertook partially, to do it. 

The truth in regard to the use of powder is this : it is of no use if 
the persons who are to use it have any fear of it. After I left Nantuck- 
et, they had a severe fire in the town, and undertook to use powder. (I 
can only tell it from second-hand.) We had a number of old-fashioned 
firewards at Nantucket when I was at the head of the Fire Department. 
I proposed to some of them to go in with me to carry in these casks, 
which were too heavy for one man to carry, and it was necessary to car- 
ry in a lantern at the same time. One Quaker spoke up and said, " I'll 
go with thee, George ; ". and the Quaker and I did the business. 
Afterwards, when I left, they undertook to go in with the powder, but 
did not fire it. Some one told me that they carried it in, and the build- 
ings took fire, and that they did not succeed in blowing down the build- 
ing, for the reason that the persons who had charge of the powder were 
afraid of it. 

It is a dangerous thing for people to use, unless they have confidence 
in it and confidence in themselves. The man is just as important as the 
powder. It ought to be in charge of the Fire Department. In regard 
to selecting the buildings that are to be blown down, I would say select 
those that are not too strongly built — those that you know the powder 
will demolish. On the night of the fire here, they put powder under the 
building where the Webster Bank was. In my judgment, it would not 
have blown that building down. 

Q. Was it not put in there for storage ? 

A. No, sir. I understood that notice was given that the building was 
to be blown down. It was a very strongly built building, and for that 
reason was not to be tampered with unless people knew what they were 
about. 

Q. Has it not iron floors ? 

A. No, sir, but a portion of it is iron. 

Q. It is iron and brick, is it? 

A. Yes, sir — a very strong building. I think as a rule that powder 
ought to go into the very lowest part of the building. 

Q. Did you confine this that you used in any way except with the 
casks ? 

A. No, sir. There were some strong casks with double heads that I 
made. That was the only form then. I set the casks right down 



355 



and turned them on the bung so that the powder would come out of the 
bunghole. The tow was on the floor. 

Q. Was anybody hurt? 

A. No, sir. We came pretty near it though, from not having sufficient 
tools. It so happened that we got into one blind cellar, and in lighting 
the tow my friend blew the light out, and I did not know the way out of 
the cellar and could not find it. It was one of the early preparations 
that we made. It was soon after I had the powder-house built. In that 
case, I put my foot on the tow and extinguished it pretty quick and we 
commenced operations again. 

Powder is a very dangerous element, and is to be used only by persons 
who have perfect command of themselves and know what they are about. 

Q. Should they not be drilled in its use for this sort of purpose? 

A. It is not a thing to be played with in "any form. You may pick 
out men in the Fire Department who have perfect confidence in them- 
selves, and have nerve enough to be trusted with it. 

Q. Should you not think it more prudent to have a military man at 
the head of the powder brigade? 

A. I think not. I think that it ought to be under the control of the 
Fire Department and included in that organization, so as to make the 
organization complete. I have a different opinion from many in regard 
to the organization of a Fire Department. I don't mean to say anything 
against the Chief Engineer of this city or the Assistant Engineers. 
But I think such officers ought to be men who know something more 
than the mere matters of coupling hose and such details. It requires 
an amount of judgment and wisdom greater than almost any other 
position in cities where there is liable to be a great destruction of 
property from fire. 

Q. Would you not also say that they should have special training in 
that direction ? 

A. I should, certainly. If you had to call out the powder brigade 
under the command of the Chief Engineer, I should want them trained 
so as to know what to do, — to understand who was to have charge of 
the powder, and to have perfectly cool men, who felt themselves entirely 
competent for the business, and knew the proper method of proceeding, 
and had perfect command of themselves, — not men who are under- 
taking to fire powder for the first time in their lives. 

Q. You have no special knowledge in regard to this Boston fire, I 
suppose? 

A. No, sir, except that I was at the fire early. The bells struck in an 
unusual manner and I went out, and was there while that first building 
was on fire. 

I think there was a want in our Fire Department at that fire in this 
way : There was a want of carrying up hose. The engines were play- 
ing too much on the lower parts of the buildings when the upper parts 
wei"e on fire. I saw that the fire was getting the entire control of the 
department the moment that it got into these narrow streets with high 
buildings. There was no arrangement for carrying up hose. The}' were 
not prompt enough. It is of no use to play on the third and fourth 
stories of buildings when the fire is in the fifth and sixth, and is coming 
down. It does not do anything ; the fire just spreads from one building 



356 

to another. I watched the whole fire until the next morning at ten 
o'clock. 

Q. Where did you observe this style of playing that j'ou speak of? 

A. On the verj^ first building that burned and on the others generally. 
I spoke of it at that time. Four or five engines would be playing on 
the lower part of a building when it was the upper part only that was on 
fire. 

Q. Had the fire crossed Summer street when j'ou arrived ? 

A. No, sir. I think that it would not vary but very little from half- 
past seven o'clock when I arrived. The first building was only fairly 
on fire. It was a question then about the fire's crossing Summer street. I 
said then that I wondered that the\^ did not get up their ladders and get 
the hose upon the other side. As a general thing, without going into 
details, the water did not get at the fire. 

Q. In regard to the first building, Was that practicable when you 
arrived ? 

A. Yes, sir. They could have taken up the hose on the opposite side 
and played into tlie building. There were but one or two engines there 
when I arrived. There was no reason that I know of, why with 
such an alarm as that there should not have been a number of engines 
there. To me the alarm sounded in a very unusual manner. I started 
and went right down when the bells first struck. As a rule, I never go 
to fires, but this alarm sounded in so unusual a manner that I went right 
out. I live just below the corner of Charles and Beacon street. I went 
across the Common and right straight to Lincoln street. When I arrived, 
I tliiuk I found but one engine there. I did not see but one stream, at 
any rate, and there was no water reaching the fire at all. They were 
playing at it and not reaching it efficiently. 

Q. Where was the engine stationed that you saw? 

A. It was on the street where the fire was. It was on Kingston street, 
right opposite the burning building. 

Q. Whereabouts in the building was the fire when you arrived? 

A. It was in the upper part of the building. 

Q. Do you remember looking below to ascertain whether it was not 
below also? 

A. I think it was not below. I did not notice it there. I noticed one 
single engine playing, and in some conversation that I had there, I asked 
where in heaven's name the other engines were, and they said that they 
were bringing them up by hand. M}^ own impression would be that 
there was a want of hooks and ladders, especially ladders, to aid iu get- 
ting up the hose. 

Q. Did you come down Summer street from Washington? 

A. No, sir, I went through Bedford street to Kingston street, when I 
went to the fire. 

Q. Was there no engine at the corner of Bedford and Kingston 
streets ? 

A. No, sir, I did not pass any. I did not undertake to fix the loca- 
tion of any engine. I directed my attention to the fire, to sec what was 
the effect of it. 

Q. Was it too hot to pass through Kingston street to the fire ? 



357 

A. No, sir, I did not undertake to do that. I went Avithiu four or five 
blocks of it. 

Q. Did 3'ou turn up Kingston street? 

A. I think I did, after going down Bedford. That is my impression. 
I was not a great ways from the fire. I went up far enough to see the 
basement of the building and its whole length. "While I staj'ed there, the 
fire got in the upper stories on Summer street. Then I went round into 
Summer street to see what would happen next. I said, " Is it possible 
that they are going to let that fire get into Summer street?" 

Q. Did 3'Ou go through Church Green or Chauncy street? 

A. I went through Chauncy street. After it got into Summer street, 
I stayed there some time, and then I went into Franklin street and saw 
that the fire came down there, and then I spoke up and said, " They 
ought not to allow that fire to go the other side of Franklin street. They 
ought to have used powder there." 

Q. Did 3^ou ever see powder used in that class of buildings filled with 
merchandise? 

A. No, sir ; I never did. 

Q. Did you see anything of its use that night or the next morning? 

A. No, sir ; nothing from which I could form an opinion. I was not 
near enough. 

Q. Was there gas let into those houses at Nantucket for lighting pur- 
poses? 

A. No, sir. That is to be considered. Jt is a great danger, of course. 
There is no doubt about that. 



AUGUSTUS UJCE, stvorn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Where do you reside? 

A. At 15 Linden street, East Boston. 

Q. How early were you at the fire ? 

A. I was there I should say within five minutes after the first bell 
struck. 

Q. Where were you when the alarm struck? 

A. On the corner of Broad and Summer streets. 

Q. Did you see anything of the fire before the alarm? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. How long had you seen it before the alarm? 

A. Not more than a minute. 

Q. When you got there, what was the condition of things? 

A. When I got there, the end of the building nearest to Bedford street 
was on fire, and the flames were showing themselves. 

Q. Was there any fire apparatus there at that time? 

A. Steamer 7 was on the corner of Lincoln and Bedford streets. 

Q. How soon did that steamer begin to play? 

A. I kept right around the fire on B edford and Kingston streets, and 
then went on to Summer street. I there met Deputy Chief Regan. He 
gave orders to some men who were with him to cut through the front 
door on Summer street ; and, as they were cutting through, the remark 
he made was like this : " Where in the devil is Steamer No. 7? " and I 



358 

replied, " She stands on the corner of Bedford and Lincoln streets." He 
says, " What is she doing there? " I said, " The other end of this building 
is all in flames." Ho instantly took his men away from that door and 
went down Kingston street, and I followed him. There was one stream, 
if not two, going on to tlie fire then. 

Q. How many minutes after you heard the alarm did you see the stream 
going on to the fire ? 

A. I should think it was not over ten minutes. 

Q. Do you belong to the Fire Department? 

A. No, sir. I belong to Station No. 2. I am a policeman. 

Q. You don't know about the giving of the alarm ? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. Did you see any other steamers while you were there? 

A. No, sir ; not right away at that time. 

Q. Did you see any hose carriage? 

A. Yes, sir ; right in the street. The crowd gathered in there very 
thick. I don't remember what hose carriage it was. In a very few min- 
utes I was on Summer street again, and a hook and ladder company 
had come then. I saw no other steamer directly at that time. 

Q. Did ,you save some women from Kingston street? 

A. Yes sir. 

Q. What time was that? 

A. It was very soon after I went down Kingston street with OflScer 
Regan. These women got scared, and could not get out through the 
crowd. I went into the house and took them down through the crowd. 
It was right opposite the fire on Kingston street, I think the first house 
next to the new store that they are building, — Mr. Rogers' house. 

JOHN M. PAGE, re-called. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) What is your occupation? 

A. I am a policeman at Station No. 4. 

Q. The outlines of your beat are Kingston, Essex, South, East, 
Federal and Summer streets ? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. What time did you pass the corner of Kingston and Summer 
streets ? 

A. As near as I can judge, it might be five or ten minutes before 
seven o'clock. 

Q. You noticed nothing then, of course? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. You went down Kingston ? 

A. I went down Kingston, towards Essex. 

Q. You met a woman there, did you ? 

A. Yes, sir. I left the corner and was coming down Essex street 
when I met a woman. She had some complaints to make about par- 
ties, and about her husband ; and detained me there five or ten minutes, 
perhaps. 

Q. Then where did you go? 

A. I went to tlie corner of Lincoln and Essex. 

Q. What took place at Lincoln? 



359 

A. I was standing on the corner a few minutes, and there was a party 
of rough boys half way up Summer street, making some disturbance and 
noise, and I started to go up and drive them off. Tliey saw me coming, 
and they ran towards Summer street, and I followed along after them. 
When we got up to Summer street, they began to hallo fire. I sup- 
posed they were doing it to plague me. I ran pretty fast after them up 
to the corner. I didn't know but what I would touch them with my 
cane a little. I got up to the corner, and sure enough, there was plenty 
of fire on the corner of Lincoln and Bedford streets. It appeared to be 
coming out of the top of the buildings. I could not see the building 
that was on fire. There was a high building between that and me, that 
ran farther back. 

Q. How many minutes was that from the time you passed that corner 
of Kingston and Summer streets? 

A. It might have been twenty minutes or more. 

Q. How near you was box 52 ? 

A. 1 was right at it. It was right on the corner where I stood. I 
took the key out and gave the alarm as soon as possible. 

Q. How soon did you give the second alarm ? 
f^ A. 1 could not hear the bell, there was so much noise. I waited what 
I thought would be time enough to strike the bell, and then I gave the 
second alarm. 

Q. How many minutes were there between the first alarm and the 
second ? 

A. I should judge it was five minutes or so. 

Q. Why did you give the second alarm ? 

A. There was word came from an Engineer to give the second alarm, 
although I had made up my mind to give it without having any orders. 
I gave a third alarm. That I had orders from an Engineer to give. 
But it was an order throughout the whole department, in case the fire 
was above the second story, to give a second alarm immediately, without 
having any orders. I gave the third alarm as soon as I thought the second 
had done striking. I gave the first and the second within five minutes 
of each other, and the third as soon as the second had got through. I 
could not hear the second strike. I did not hear any answer that night. 

Q. Did you get any response from the box? 

A. Yes, sir ; I could hear it ticking in the box. 

Q. As soon as you gave the first alarm did you hear it ticking? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Had any one spoken to you about the alarm before you gave the 
first one? 

A. No, sir ; there was nobody there. 

Q. How many seconds was it from the time you heard the cry of 
" Fire" until you gave the first alarm? 

A. It was as quick as I could put my hand in my pocket and take 
out my key — taking up five or .six seconds. The box was located on 
the corner of Lincoln and Bedford streets. I was right at the box. 
When I got around the corner far enough to see, I gave the alarm. I 
was right there at the box when I saw the fire. 

Q. While you were giving the first alarm, what officers came up? 

A. There were a number. I think the first officer I saw was Mr. 



360 

Moulton, right close there. He came there without any hat or coat, and 
with his key in his hand. 

Q. What other officers? 

A. Mr. Farwell, Mr. Hoffman, Mr. Crane, and quite a number of 
others. 

Q. Did you hear any other alarm except from those boys ? 

A. No, sir. That was my first intimation of the fire. I had been 
standing at the corner of Essex street for four or five minutes. If there 
had been any outcry in Summer street, I must have heard it. 

These bo^^s shouted as soon as they got there, and I was then after 
them. I was going up Lincoln street towards Bedford and Summer. 

Q. Can you tell what fire apparatus you saw come, and when you saw 
it come ? 

A. I saw one steamer come up Lincoln street with some men on it, 
and I thought they had light teams to haul the engine with, and I ap- 
pealed to the crowd to take hold and help haul it along, and there were 
a number that took hold. 

Q. What time did they reach the fire? 

A. I was waiting at the box to give an alarm. I think it was the 
second alarm. It must have been that. 

Q. What steamer was it? 

A. I suppose it was No. 7. I did not notice. It came up Lincoln 
street. 

Q. Where did it locate ? 

A. It stopped right at the hj^drant at the corner of Lincoln and Bed- 
ford streets. It came within five minutes after the first alarm. 

Q. How soon did it begin to play? 

A. I don't recollect about that. I think before it had got to playing 
I had left the box. i 

Q. Where did you go? 

A. I went up Bedford street. The boys had got up into a 3'ard, 
on to a shed, and I went there to drive them out and stayed there for 
some time. 

Q. Did you see any other steamers come before you went up Bedford 
street ? 

A. No, sir ; I don't think I did. I was there half an hour or more. 



FREDERICK HOFFMAN, sivorn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) What is your occupation ? 

A. I am a policeman, connected with Station No. 4. 

Q. On the night of the fire, where were you when the alarm was given ? 

A. When the alarm was given I was at the fire. 

Q. When did you see the fire first? 

A. I saw the fire from the corner of Bedford and Lincoln streets. My 
beat runs from the corner of Essex and Lincoln down Lincoln to Beach, 
along Beach to Federal, up Federal to East, through East to South, up 
South to Essex, and then through Essex to Lincoln. 

Q, What time was this that you saw the fire? 

A. I should sa}', to the best of ni}^ knowledge, that it was between 



361 



fifteen and twenty minutes past seven. The fire was in the rear of the 
building. 

Q. Was there any fire in front ? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. How far up was it? 

A. I should sa}^ that it was the second or third story. 

Q. Did you notice any fire below? 

A. Yes, sir, I did. From the front part of the building, I could see 
the light of the fire through the basement windows from the Summer- 
street side. 

Q. How long after you saw the fire did you hear the alarm? 

A. I could not hear any alarm at all, there was so much noise around 
the fire. I ran up to the head of the street and met oflScer Page at the 
box. I went around by the front of the Freeman's Bank to Summer 
street, and Engineer Regan was there and the driver of the Insurance 
wagon. They tried to cut into the front door and make an opening 
through so as to unbolt it, but it was a centre bolt and they could not 
unbolt it. Engineer Regan told me to go round and give a second and 
third alarm. I told him the second was rung. He said ring the third 
right after it. I went round to the box and told officer Page. Our 
orders were then if the fire was above the third story to give the second 
alarm. OflUcer Page gave the second alarm while I was at the box. He 
had given the first alarm and had just closed the box when I got there. 

Q. How soon after the second alarm was the third given ? 

A. I could not say exactly. I got back I should say in about two or 
three minutes. As soon as I ran around to where the Freeman's Bank 
is, then I came right back again and told oflScer Page. 

Q. Did you see any fire apparatus there ? 

A. Yes, sir, I saw Steamer No. 7, and there was a hose from Hudson 
street. I saw the hose there, but could not see the carriage. I had seen 
Steamer 4'8 hose carriage come round through Otis street right into 
Kingston. 

Q. How soon did Steamer 7 get there after the first alarm ? 

A. Steamer 7, 1 should say, was there within about five minutes from 
the time that I got to the box, — less than that. I could not tell any- 
thing about the alarm, because I did not hear it. What I judge by is 
that oflScer Page closed the box. Some one went down and gave notice 
to the steamer, that was located right in East street. 

Q. Where did it stop to get water? 

A. It stopped in Bedford street, right at the rear. I could not see 
exactly where it did stop. They got the hose over the shed right in the 
rear of the building. 

Q. How soon did they get water on to the building after they got 
there ? 

A. I should say it was ten or fifteen minutes ; I could not say exactly. 

Q. How soon did the hose get there from Hudson street? 

A. I saw the hose there in fact sooner than I saw Steamer 7's water. 

Q. How soon after the first alarm was given ? 

A. I could not say exactly. It might be six or seven minutes. I 
know the}' were a very short time ahead of Steamer No. 7. 

Q. How soon did Hose 4 get there ? 



362 

A. It was some time before Hose 4 got there. The fire had got up 
through the roof at that time. The fire had got out on the Kingston- 
street side, through the windows, at that time. 

Q. How many minutes, to the best of your knowledge or opinion? 

A. I should say about eighteen or twenty minutes. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) As I understand, }'0u were at the corner of 
Bedford and Lincoln streets when you saw the fire? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Tlien you went from there to the fire ? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Why didn't you sound the alarm? 

A. When I came there, officer Page was at the box. 

Q. Was officer Page there when you were there ? 

A. When I came there, officer Page was there. I was standing at the 
corner of Essex and Lincoln streets, when my attention was attracted 
to it by the noise and the cry of fire. I ran up for the box. When I 
got there, officer Page had given the alarm and was just closing the 
box. That was before I had been to the fire. I had seen officer Page 
on the corner opposite to me a short time before that. I thought he 
went out of Essex towards Kingston, but instead of that he had gone 
up Lincoln and was there before me. 



BENJAMIN F. FARWELL, sworn. 

Q. (B}^ Mr. Russell.) What is your occupation ? 

A. I am a police officer connected with Station No. 4. 

Q. Where were you when you first saw the fire? 

A. I was in Lincoln street, on my beat. 

Q. What part of Lincoln street? 

A. I was near the building called Lincoln building, or Crystal Palace. 

Q. What did you see? 

A. The first that I saw was that a lot of young men and boys came 
running up the street, from the lower end of the Palace. Tliey were in 
the middle of the street. I had not discovered an}' fire at that time. I 
went in the middle of the street and looked up, and saw a light there, 
and went up to the box at the corner of Lincoln and Bedford streets, as 
quick as I could. 

Q. Whom did 3'ou find there? 

A. I found officer Page at the box. 

Q. Did he te.ll you what he had done? 

A. I heard just as I got there the click. I could hear the lever, and I 
stopped there a moment and I heard the tick. 

Q. Did he give a second alarm while you were there ? 

A. No, sir. I don't know. I left then. I heard the click and then 
I went through Bedford street. There is a Mrs. Foster who lives there, 
and a lot of 3'oung men had run through her yard and were going over 
her sheds. I went in and drove them out of her yard, and then I went 
around up Kingston street to the fire. 

Q. In what part of the building was the fire when you got there ? 

A. It was in the top part, beyond the elevator, in the rear end. 



363 

Q. How soon did you see any fire apparatus come? 

A. I went into the building next adjoining tliat, — I went to the door 
of Tebbetts, Baldwin & Davis first. That was bolted and I could not 
get in. Then I went up into the building next to it, clear to the top. 
There was a fireman that went in with meij chat time, up to the top of 
that building. I think he was an Engineer. I stopped there until there 
was a hose run up the three flights. 

Q. Do you know what hose that was? 

A. I don't know. I suppose, however, that it was Steamer No. 7's. 
This hose was carried through the building on the right, — I. H. Hatch 
& Go's, just across the alley-way to the right. 

Q. How many minutes after j'ou left the box before you met this 
Engineer ? 

A. It might have been four or five minutes. I should not think it was 
over that, to the best of my judgment. It might have been five min- 
utes. 

Q. What time was it when you reached the building which was on 
fire? 

A. I don't know. 

Q. What should you judge ? 

A. Twenty minutes past seven o'clock, I should say, or in that neigh- 
borhood, as near as I can judge. It might have been later than that, and 
it might have been not quite so late. 

Q. How soon after did you see any engine? 

A. I was in that building, and could not see. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) Were there any words between yourself and of- 
ficer Page at the box, about what he had done ? 

A. All that was said by him was, " Do you hear the bells?" I said, " I 
hear the tick," and then I could hear the clicking in the box. He says, 
" Go out there to Mrs. Foster's ; " and I started. That was all that was 
said. 

FRANK R. CRANE, sworn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) What is your occupation? 

A. I am a policeman connected with Station No. 2. My beat is Wash- 
ington, Summer, Devonshire and Franklin streets. 

Q. When were you first out on the night of the fire? 

A. It was at six o'clock. 

Q. At what time did you hear the cry or alarm? 

A. Well, it was just a few minutes before the bell struck — probably 
not more than two or three minutes. 

Q. Where were you then ? 

A. I was just at the corner of Franklin and Devonshire streets. 

Q. Who was with you? 

A. Mr. Dodd and Mr. Mather. 

Q. What sort of a ciy did you hear? 

A. When I heard it, I did not think it sounded any more like fire than 
anything else. I did not recognize it as being an alarm of fire. I thought 
it was parties passing up Summer street. It is a very common thing 
there to hear such noises. 



364 

Q. Then you say that two or three minutes after that cry you heard 
the alarm. Wliat did you do then ? 

A. I thought then that this halloing might be " Fire." I started and 
ran right through to Summer street. When I got through there I could 
see the reflection of the fire in Kingston street. I went right around, and 
came up from Devonshire into Kingston street as soon as I could, and 
went in the rear of the building. 

Q. Was anybody there at that time? 

A. I don't think there was when I went there, but when I came out of 
the passage-way I met Mr. Regan, one of the Engineers. He told me 
to go and give the second and third alarms. 

Q. What did you do ? 

A. I went to the box and found officer Page there, and told him what 
Capt. Eegan had told me. 

Q. Did he give another alarm then? 

A. Yes, sir. He said he would give it as soon as the bell had done 
striking the first alarm. 

Q. Then you had come all the wa}-- from Franklin street before the 
first alarm got through ? 

A. From the time the first bell struck, — before the three rounds of 
the bell had struck. 

Q. How many minutes would it take you to do that? 

A. Well, three or four minutes. 

Q. After that, what did you do ? 

A. I was about there all night, in Summer, Franklin, Washington and 
Devonshire streets, making myself as useful as I could, under the com- 
mand of Sergeant Foster. 

Q. What fire apparatus did you see first ? 

A. I could not say what it was. I saw that which I supposed to be 
Steamer 7's hose carriage. 

Q. How soon did you see that after the first alarm ? 

A. That was before the bell had done striking. It was on Kingston 
street, right opposite to the building that was burning. 

Q. Was it before the first alarm had done striking ? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. When did you see the next apparatus? 

A. I could not tell, but it was right away. It was but a very few min- 
utes before I saw Steamer No. 7, there in Summer street. 

Q. To the best of your knowledge, how many minutes after the alarm 
was first struck ? 

A. I should not think it was more than fifteen or twenty minutes. It 
might not have been so much as that. 

Q. What time did you reach the fire? 

A. I could not tell — not to a minute. But it was somewhere between 
quarter past seven and half past. 

JOSEPH DODD, sworn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) What is your occupation ? 

A. I am a policeman, and am connected with Station No. 2. 

Q. On the night of the fire, where were you on duty ? 



365 

A. I was on duty, watching stores at the corner of Franklin and Dev- 
onshire streets. 

Q. Did you hear any noise there? 

A. I heard some one halloing and a noise. 

Q. What did you do? 

A. I started and ran in that direction, towards Summer street. 

Q. Did you hear anj^thing of the alarm? 

A. No, sir, I did not hear the fire-alarm on my way. 

Q. Did you hear the cry of " Fire " ? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. What did you see wlien 3^ou got there ? 

A. I went acrosvs Summer and Devonshire streets to an alley-way back 
of the building which was on fire, and I heard glass breaking, and I 
looked up and saw the fire just coming out of the window. I thought 
then that it was in the third story. 

Q. Did 3'ou hear the alarm at any time? 

A. I heard the bells ring, but I did not count the strokes to know what 
the number was. 

Q. How soon after you started and ran did you hear the bells ring ? 

A. I could not tell. It was after I got to the fire. 

Q. About how many minutes would tliat take? 

A. It would not take more tUau two minutes to go from where I was, 
if it did as long. 

Q. What did you do then ? 

A. I went and helped Lt. Childs get a rope off the hook and ladder 
truck. 

Q. When did that truck arrive? 

A. It was pretty soon after I got there. I don't know how many min- 
utes. I don't believe it was more than a minute or two after I got there. 
The hose got there about the same time I did. I turned around and saw 
them coming. I thought it was quite a spell before a steamer came. I 
could not tell exactly how many minutes it was after the bell struck. 

Q. Give it, to the best of your judgment. 

A. I thought at that time that it was about five minutes, but it might 
not have been so lonor. 



CALEB T. MATHER, sworn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) What is your occupation? 

A. I am a policeman connected with Station No. 2. 

Q.*AVhere were you on the night of the fire? 

A. I was on my beat, corner of Devonshire and Franklin streets. I 
was there about ten minutes previous to the fire's starting. 

Q. When did you hear anything unusual that attracted your attention? 

A. I was talking with Mr. Crane, and simultaneously we heard some 
one hallo ; and there was another officer that came along about that time 
and said he guessed there was a disturbance up the street, and we started 
towards Winthrop square, up Devonshire street ; and then we distin- 
guished the cry of fire and proceeded in that direction. I went by the 
way of Devonshire street, that being on the line of my route. I got 



366 

about opposite Beebe's building and I heard the fire-alarm. At the 
time I got to Summer street, I distinguished the number. 

Q. How long after the alarm was it before you saw any fire apparatus? 

A. After 1 got to the corner of Summer and Devonshire streets, on my 
way up, I saw the smoke and got the direction of the fire, and I went im- 
mediately there and rushed to the door of the store on the Kingston- 
street side, and the fire appeared to be in the rear — from an alley-way 
in the rear of the counting-room, and Mr. Crane rushed by me up into 
the alley-way, and came up and started back, and met Mr. Eegan, who 
told him to go and give the alarm — the second and third alarms. I re- 
mained there. It was not many minutes before the first and second lines 
of hose came into the street. I could not tell exactly how many minutes 
had elapsed. Time seems much longer under such circumstances. It 
seemed to me rather slow. 

Q. How many minutes was it, to the best of your judgment, between 
the alarm and the arrival of the first apparatus? 

A. 1 might have stood there from seven to ten minutes. It might not 
have been as long, but it seemed to me so. Then I saw two lines of hose 
running up the street. They started up the stairway of the building be- 
yond the alley. I don't know whether they got a stream on the fire or 
not. They soon ran back. 

Q. Did 3'ou see the hose arrive ? 

A. 1 saw these two lines of hose run into the street. I did not see 
the carriage. 

Q. Did 3'ou see the steamer come ? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. You were at work on the fire all night with Sergeant Bates? 

A. Yes, sir. I stayed there as long as I could. I stayed there until the 
heat drove me away, and then I went down Kingston and Bedford streets, 
and around in the rear, and saw steamers enough there. On my way 
around, I went from there to the Freeman's Bank entrance, and remained 
there until the fire crossed Summer street, and the Deputy Chief came to 
the door where I was and said, if I had any families living on the route, 
I had better proceed in that direction ; and I did so. I remained on the 
route as long as I could be of any service. Then I reported on Summer 
street, and was with Sergeant Bates the rest of the night. 



SERGT. JOSEPH H. BATES, sworn, 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) You are an officer of the police force ? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Where werej^ou when the alarm was given of this fire? 

A. I was going down Hanover street. I listened to the first alarm^ 
and the second alarm was turned in so quick that I returned to the 
station-house and put on my uniform, and went immediately to the fire. 

Q. How many minutes did it take you to get there after you heard the 
second alarm? 

A. It was probably ten minutes, as near as I can judge. 

Q. In what condition was the building? 

A. The building at that time was all of a light flame. 



367 

Q. Was there any fire apparatus there? 

A. Yes, sir. Steamer No. 4 was all the engine I saw. She was at- 
tached to a hydrant, and the stream was on the fire. 

Q. Did you see any other steamer come? 

A. No, sir. I had a line across the head of Summer street, at that 
time. On the other lines were Sergeants Foster and Childs. They were 
below me on the other side. 

Q. How long were you on duty ? 

A. I was on duty until the next morning at nine o'clock, and all 
through the daj'- afterward, in fact. 

Q. Did the officers come promptly from your station, or otherwise? 

A. After I had been at the fire some time, I judged it would be quite a 
fire, and went to the station-house and reported that I must have more men, 
I had hard woi'k to hold the line with what I had. He sent me three or 
four, and the men from other stations came within an hour. Station No. 
8 reported to me, and Station No. 5, and then I had some of Station No. 
4's men, and, in fact, the officers from other stations reported up to ten 
o'clock and past that hour. 

Q. You say you had hard work to hold the lines. What was the 
trouble ? 

A. It was on account of the crowd. There were so many people 
crowding down. That was the great difficulty all that night. It was a 
trouble to the firemen as well as to the police. We were obliged to let 
the firemen through. We always gave them all the privileges necessary. 

Q. Was the crowd troublesome to the firemen ? 

A. No, sir, I should judge not. There was a line of hose run up 
Summer street. We would always say to the firemen, " Pass through 
the centre. Your line of hose is open ready for you." We used every 
means in our power to give them a chance. When the apparatus arrived, 
we dropped our lines and let them pass through. A crowd will usually 
let the engines pass through without any hindrance. They take care to 
keep clear of the horses, and give an engine plenty of room. 

Q. Did the crowd give way when the engine was drawn by men, as 
in former times? 

A. It was about the same — nothing different. 

Q. How did the police officers behave? 

A. They behaved well. We had not a particle of trouble with a sin- 
gle man. We had some fifty during the night. 

Q. Did you see any of the firemen disorderly? 

A. No, sir. 

SOLOMON S. FOSTER, sworn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Are you a member of the police force? 

A. Yes, sir. I am attached to Station No. 2. 

Q. Were you out at the time of the fire-alarm? 

A. Yes, sir. I was in Merchants' Row when the first alarm struck. I 
went right over to the fire as quick as I could go. 

Q. When you got there, what was going on ? 

A. The fire was burning pretty rapidly on the top of that building 
on Kingston street. The flames were coming out of the upper windows. 



368 

Q. How many minutes did it take you to get there ? From the time 
the alarm struck until you got there, how long was it ? 

A. I ran all the way through State and Devonshire streets, right to 
Otis, and right through to Summer street. 

Q. Did you see any fire apparatus when you got there? 

A. The 7's had got there. The hose-carriage came about the time 
that I did, I think. 

Q. What hose was it? 

A. I think it is No. 2, or else it is No. 3. They were in Kingston 
street, near Bedford. 

Q. What did you do? 

A. Then I went right to work getting the crowd away, in order to 
give the firemen a chance to work. 

Q. Did you have officers from different stations? 
' A. Yes, sir. I sent word to Lieutenant Burleigh to telegraph, and he 
sent all the officers he could get, and as quick as he could get them there. 
We formed our lines on Franklin and Devonshire streets, and fell back, 
as the fire came through to Milk street, from point to point, as the fire 
drove us. 

Q,. Were you employed in driving crowds from buildings that were to 
be blown up? 

A. We were, at the corner of Milk and Devonshire streets. 

Q. How long did you hold those lines? 

A. It was all night. 

Q. How did the police officers behave that night? 

A. They behaved well. 

Q. Was there any trouble with any of them? 

A. None that I know of. 

Q. Did you see an}' firemen drunk or disorderly ? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. Did you see firemen robbing stores, or helping themselves to 
goods ? 

A. Yes, sir. That was at Peck's fur store on Devonshire street. 

Q. Were they Boston firemen? 

A. I could not tell, there was such a crowd. The}' said that Mr. Peck 
told them to take what they could, and also told other citizens the same. 
I took care of what stuflT I could, and cleared the place out, and put 
some officers in there. 

I can't tell what firemen it was that took these things, or where they 
belonged. It was pretty late. The fire had got past Franklin street to- 
wards Milk. It had not got to Peck's store, by two or three stores. 
Mr. Peck's was on the left-hand side, as you go through to Milk street. 

Q. What is your opinion of the i)ractice of giving away goods? 

A. I think it demoralized the people and the firemen, by telling them 
to go in and help themselves. The crowd would rush and we could not 
keep a line. It was hard enough to keep a line with 500 people behind 
it, even if nobody said anything. As soon as one of these men spoke, 
we would not have much show. The crowd broke the lines a number of 
times across Milk and Devonshire streets. We could not hold the lines 
when these men would sing out for the people to come through. We 



369 



were powerless the moment that these store-keepers would say that 
thing. It would demoralize everything. 

Q. Did 3'ou ever know that thing to be said before? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. Did j'^ou see it at any other place besides Mr. Peek's? 

A. I saw the same thing up in AVashington street. I went in there and 
drove them out of two stores on the corner of Franklin street. There was 
a collar store there — Bradford & Anthony's. 

Q. A little to the left of Franklin ? 

A. Yes, sir ; as j^ou go up. 

Q. Did you make any arrests that night for larcenj^ ? 

A. I brought one man in, I believe. I took awaya good many goods 
from people in those stores, and I put the people out. 

Q. How could you tell a thief from a man who had had a present ? 

A. I made them leave it all. I told them I did not think they had any 
right to give things away, and I got them out as quick as I could. 

Q. How many j'cars have 3'ou been an officer? 

A. I went into the department in 1849. I have been in the depart- 
ment ever since it was organized with the watch. 



JOHN H. WESTON, sworn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Where do you live? 

A. In East Boston. 

Q. Where were you at the time of the fire? 

A. In East Boston. 

Q. How soon did you come over here, after the first alarm? 

A. We don't come to Boston unless by special order. At the striking 
of the fourth alarm, we are ordered to report at the Ferry. We so re- 
ported, and were ordered back by Captain I5arnes, to the house. On his so 
doing, I went to my place of business. A member of Engine Co. No. 5 
came and told me that we were ordered to go to Boston at once. I 
started to go to the Ferry. Just at that time an alarm came in from 
box 154. We went to the fire there, and then immediatly came back. I 
am attached to the Fire Department — to hose company No. 6. 

Q. What was the condition of the fire when you got there? 

A. We were ordered to report on Devonshire street. At that time, 
the fire had hardly got into Franklin street. Mr. Dunbar ordered me 
into the clothing store on the corner of Franklin and Devonshire. I 
went on to the roof of the building to see what kind of a chance there 
was. I went up and found the building then ignited. I told him that 
we could not get up there and remain there more than three or four min- 
utes. He then told us we had better take our line out and go into 
Franklin street, which we did. We were driven back from Franklin 
street into Devonshire, and remained there some time. Alter that he 
went away, and I thought I saw a good chance to make a stand on a 
block of buildings consisting of four or five stores on Devonshire street. 
I took my stream up on to the roof of the building, and Engine No. 8 
took their stream on to the building. 2 of Cambridge and the Lynn 
company were in the lower pait of the building. We were doing excel- 
24 



370 

lent execution. I have no hesitation in saying that had we not been 
called out of it, we would have made a pretty' good show. We had 
made things look black on both sides of us. The buildings on both 
sides of us being low we could pour water right into them. There was 
some little space next to us and we had an excellent opportunity to fight 
the fire. I was congratulating myself and saying that we were doing 
nobly, when we received an order to come down instantly. I said, " For 
what purpose?" I asked whether it was an Engineer that gave the order. 
The man said, " No," I said, " Go down and ask what I am to come 
down for." He came back and said they had put gunpowder in the 
building on the opposite corner and were to blow it up. I made some 
kind of a remark about the use of gunpowder under such circumstances, 
which I do not care to repeat. We came down and went into State 
street and remained there (I glanced at the clock), in connection with 
seven or eight streams, an hour and a quarter, waiting for the explosion. 
As I understood, the powder was put in and the fuse was lighted, but it 
went out. We had to wait until the fire had got to the gunpowder bo- 
fore we could go back and fight the fire again. 

While waiting for the machine to get to work again, we went into the 
new Post Office and waited until the explosion. I was a little curious to 
see how gunpowder would woric in such a case and I watched it pretty 
thoroughly. Some ten minutes after the explosion the wall fell in. 
Then we went into the street and around the new Post Oiflce and had a 
pretty severe fight. Then we went into the building on the opposite cor- 
ner and extinguished the fire, and proceeded up Milk street, and stopped 
the fire as we went. After we got the fire put out there, we went down 
into the "Post" building and stopped the fire there. After that, we 
were sent around to a number of different places. 

Q. What is your opinipn now as to the effect of using gunpowder? 

A. I could not see the benefit there. I think it was a detriment to us 
instead. The building, I think, was right on the corner of Milk and 
Devonshire streets, opposite the new Post Office, on the upper corner. 

Q. Do you think you would have extinguished and stopped the fire 
there if j'ou had not laeen called off? 

A. I am inclined to think that we would. I don't think it would have 
come into the building where we were, at least, for I think we had it, 
sure. 

The powder was put in without our knowledge, and we were warned 
out. I could not tell who the man was that sent for me. I did not see 
him. It was not put into the same building that we were playing in. 
It was put into the building on the opposite corner. 

Q. You have no way of helping us to find out who put that powder 
there ? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. Did you see the man who had sent the order to 3'ou when you 
came down ? 

A. I says to the man, " Is that the gentleman Who ordered 3'ou to go 
and tell us to come down?" He had on a city badge. I did not liave 
time to notice him particularly. I think it was an Alderman. I think 
the Aldermen have badges. This man had a gold badse. 



371 

Q. Was it from that circumstance that you thought he was an Alder- 
man? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Do 3'ou know what time of the day or night this wasr 

A. I could not say anything about the time. It was towards mornino- ; 
pretty late, at that. I should judge that it was between three and four 
o'clock. I could not say exactly. 

Q. Was that new Post-OfBce building a barrier to the flames on ac- 
count of the way in which it was built? 

A. It was somewhat. There was considerable fire in and around it, 
and we had pretty sharp work to extinguish the fire in and around it. 

Q. What was there in it to burn ? 

A. There were stagings, scafibldings, and other things in and around 
it. There was a good deal of lumber in and around it and on top of it. 

Q. So far as it was fire-proof it was a barrier, was it not? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. With almost any other building there, do you think the fire would 
have stopped there ? 

A. I should not want to say that it would under existing circum- 
stances, with the gunpowder as it was used at that corner. I think that 
the gunpowder would have been likely to have thrown the matter around 
so much that it would have scattered the fire everywhere, and cracked 
the glass the whole length of the street. The building was actually on 
fire when the explosion took place. The fire burned down to the powder, 
but the fuse didn't light it. 

Adjourned to Thursday afternoon. 



372 



ELEVENTH DAY. 

Thursday, Dec. 12. 
C. W. ELLIOT, President of Harvard College, sworn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) At what time did you go to the great fire of 
Nov. 9th? 

A. I don't know exactly ; I was in Brimmer street, and heard the 
alarm strike, and immediately looked out of the window, and there was 
a great blaze in the sky lit the time the alarm struck. I went as quick 
as I could to the place, and might have been ten minutes in crossing the 
Common and going down West street. 

Q. When you reached the spot, what was the condition of the fire? 

A. The whole building seemed to me to be in a blaze from top to 
bottom. I should say there were at least three engines playing on it 
when I reached there. 

Q. Did you see it cross to Otis street? 

A. Yes, sir, I saw it cross to the cornice and roof. 

Q. How long was that after you reached the spot? 

A. I can't tell how long it was. I don't know ; I did not look at my 
watch during the night, that I know of. 

Q. Did you see any effort made to prevent that crossing? 

A. No, sir ; I could see none. I was standing below the fire in Sum- 
mer street. I distinctly remember thinking how extraordinary it was 
that no effort was made. 

Q. (By My. Philbrick.) "Were you in a position so that you could 
see down Otis street, to know whether there were any ladders there or 
not? 

A. I was below the fire on Summer street, looking up. 

Q. You couldn't see into Otis street, then ? 

A. Oh, no ; I saw the fire on Summer street, so to speak. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) You couldn't see into Otis street, nor see 
•whether anything was going on there? 

A. No, sir, I couldn't see into Otis street. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) Do you think it was practicable, at that 
moment, when the fire got across the street, for any man to have oper- 
ated directly on the Summer-street front of this building or to have 
scaled the front of this building on the north side of Summer street? 

A. I think it would have been a dangerous and altogether injudicious 
operation to have attacked that fire in front on Summer street, at that 
time. It was the wrong place altogether to work. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) For what reason? 

A. Because the hose would then have been carried up to the place 
where it would have been most exposed to heat, and of course the fire- 
men might have been obliged to retreat at any moment. 



373 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) Where do you think the firemen should 
have attacked it? 

A. From Otis street and Devonshire street. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) State anything jou noticed that night which 
you think should be brought to the attention of the Commission. 

A. The thing I noticed most that night, up to twelve o'clock, was that 
■water was not put on the fire. 

Q. Where was it put ? 

A. The great bulk of the water was thrown on to the vertical walls of 
those granite and brick buildings. The water didn't go more than three 
stories high, as a rule ; sometimes it went a little higher, but seldom 
more than three stories high. It then fell down in front of the building, 
across the sidewalk, and went into the street. The hosemen didn't 
break the windows, as a rule, and the water therefore didn't penetrate 
the buildings at all. I over and over again saw powerful streams of 
water used in that way, where the upper stories and roofs of the build- 
ings on which they were pla3'ing were in a light blaze. I saw it repeat- 
edly during that night, and as late as eight o'clock on Sunday morning. 

Q. On what streets did yow see that ? 

A. I don't know that I shall be able to answer that with precision. 
The places where I remember it most distinctly were Otis street, Devon- 
shire street (on the water sjde of Beebe's block), on Milk street, a little 
above Batterymarch street, I think, and another place that I have not 
been able to identify since, where I stood nearly fifteen minutes. It was 
in the vicinity of High and Purchase streets, but the ground is entirely 
burnt over ; the buildings they were attempting to save were burned, and 
I have not been able to identify the place, although I went there for that 
purpose. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) Did you occasionally see streams that 
played higher than three stories ? 

A. Yes, sir, I occasionally saw a stream where they were using a 
smaller nozzle than usual, which would go a little higher than usual, but 
the streams were very ineffectual then, they were so much divided before 
they got to it. I don't think I saw a single stream used in that way 
from the street which reached the top of the building that was burning. 
I will say I didn't see the effort to prevent the fire from crossing Wash- 
ington street, opposite the Marlboro' Hotel. I understood they did get 
the water to the top of that building. That was the most astonishing 
thing during that whole night, to see Americans using superb resources 
in that way. I would not have believed it ; nothing would have induced 
nie to believe it. During the night I several times asked hosemen, and 
persons whom I supposed to be Engineers, — but I generally found they 
were not Boston Engineers, but country firemen, — why they didn't go 
on to the roofs, instead of staying in the street. Of course, that was a 
very disagreeable question, and I generally got pretty short answers, but 
I got at three different reasons in the course of the night. One was, 
that it was much hotter on the roofs than in the streets ; another was, 
that it was too dangerous ; and another, that they couldn't carry their 
bose up without bursting them. Some of them said, because the pres 
sure of the water would burst the hose at such a height ; and others said 
that there was no way of getting the hose through a building withou* 



374 



making a good many turns, and that the turns increased very much the 
danger of bursting. Those were the only reasons that I got at during 
the night, but of course it was a bad time to give reasons. But, as I dare 
say the gentlemen of the Commission have heard, those difficulties were 
all overcome later in the fire. They did carry hose to the top of build- 
ings on Sunday morning, as high as the buildings which were burned 
Saturday night. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) Did you think that what they alleged in regard 
to the excessive heat on the top of the buildings was true at that time? 

A. I did not. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) "Were you around the fire during Sunday 
forenoon? 

A. I was ; that is, I was there from half-past eight until eleven ; after 
eleven, I had other work. I should sa}' that the next thing that struck 
me during the night was a lack of foresight from hour to hour in the 
operations of the Fire Department. They would work on a building 
which was inevitably to be burned, until it was too late to take any effi- 
cient measures to save the next building. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Where did you notice that, if you remember 
any place? 

A. I noticed that repeatedly. The place where I first noticed it was 
in Winthrop square, when Beebe's block was on fire. The block on the 
lower side of Devonshire street was lost because they played on the 
three lower stories until it was too late to do anything on the roofs. I 
noticed the same thing on Federal street. I passed through Federal 
street several times before the fire swept it, and saw no measures what- 
ever taken to preserve the lower side of that street. Still later in the 
fire. Federal street went with a rush, but at that time, so far as I saw, 
that part of tlie field was abandoned. I saw no firemen there. 

Q. What would you have suggested in regard to that block near 
Beebe's? 

A. I did suggest that three powerful streams which were playing on the 
sidewalk should be carried up through those buildings, but it was not 
done. Of course, nobody had any right to make any suggestions. 

Q. Did you suggest that to any Engineer? 

A. I did. I suggested it to Mr. Damrell. I ought to qualify that by 
saying that I didn't know Mr. Damrell, but this person was pointed out 
to me by two police officers, and by a man whom I afterwards ascertained 
to be a Charlestown Engineer, as Mr. Damrell, and I have no doubt it 
"was ]Mr. Damrell. 

Q. What did he say? 

A. He looked up at the place, and said something to this effect : " Do 
you think the men could stay up there? " It wasn't put in the way of a 
negative answer, it was put in the way of an inquiry ; at least, I so un- 
derstood it ; but I ought to add that it was too late to begin operations 
to save that block. The roof was not in a blaze, but it was smoking, 
and very hot. These streams, however, had been playing upon tlie stone 
walls of the building as much as fifteen minutes from the street, and they 
were three superb streams of water. 

Q,. (By Mr. Philbrick.) When you saw the fire checked during Sun- 



375 

day forenoon, did you think the check was due to the different tactics, or 
to the different style of architecture of the buildings? 

A. To both. I thought it was emphatically due to the change in tac- 
tics, and I also thought that a building like the Merchants' Exchange 
was a more favorable building to meet the fire in. 

Q. Was there not a larger concentration of force there Sunday fore- 
noon than could have been possible on any large scale Saturday night? 

A. Yes, sir, I have no doubt that there was ; but that wasn't the true 
way to fight tliat fire, to concentrate on single Ijlocks at the outset. That 
is, at the outset, a still greater concentration was possible than was ever 
possible afterwards, until it was extinguished ; that is, from eight to 
nine o'clock on Saturday night, when the Fire Department had arrived. 

Q. Do you think there was sufficient apparatus on the ground between 
eight and nine o'clock to have successfully fought the fire under the 
circumstances ? 

A. I don't feci competent to answer that, because I don't know how 
many engines there were. There seemed to me to be a good many mag- 
nificent streams of water between eight and nine o'clock, but I don't 
know how many there were. I noticed another thing at that time, that 
nobody seemed to know where Mr. Damrell was, and nobody had any 
definite orders to do anything. That was quite as true of the police 
officers as it was of the hosemon. I was close to a group of half-a- 
dozen police officers in Winihrop square. They were debating among 
themselves to whom they should report. I heard three of them say 
simultaneously that they had no orders, and they did nothing. There 
was another thing that I noticed during the night, and that was, that' the 
crowds that were rushing about the streets were very much in the way of 
the Fire Department, and interfered with them constantly ut every turn. 
They were particularly in the way when the firemen wished to change 
the direction of their hose. It seemed to me that there were two defects 
of organization that were pretty conspicuous. One was, that the Chief 
Engineer had apparently no means of commanding the whole field, and 
he had no means of sending orders. I saw this person who was pointed 
out to me as Mr. Damrell run two or three times across "Winthrop square 
in the course of filteen minutes, carrying his own orders, and of course 
fatiguing himself very much. lie didn't seem to have any means of 
getting intelligence from the different parts of the field. In short, the 
Fire Department seemed to me to lack the methods of an array alto- 
gether, about receiving intelligence and conveying orders. Then I 
couldn't but sympathize with the reluctance of the firemen to go on such 
high roofs. One reason was, that there were not firemen enough to 
handle the hose up those high buildings, and to station men all along 
the line, at short intervals, to a place of safety. I think hosemen who 
are to go on roofs arc entitled to that protection. They are entitled to 
feel that there are experienced men all along the line of hose on the line 
of retreat, who will warn them of danger and secure their retreat. It 
seemed to me there were not men enough attached to the hose and hose- 
carriages to do that. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) You say three of the police said they had no 
orders, — did you hear any firemen say that? 

A. Oh, yes. I asked quite a number, perhaps half-a-dozen or a 



370 

dozen persons, in the course of the niglit, in different places, if they had 
any orders to do what I saw them doing. It struck me so many times 
as extraordinary and preposterous, tliat I couldn't help asking that 
question, and they always said they had no orders. 

Q. You asked them in each case if they had orders to do what they 
were then doing ? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) What did the police oflflcers appear to be 
doing, besides keeping the crowd back? 

A. The police officers to whom I refer were not keeping the crowd 
back ; they were not doing anything at the time ; they seemed to be at a 
loss what to do. The crowd had free admission to Winthrop square at 
that time. I entered the square with Mayor Norcross, Dr. George Ellis, 
and Mr. Phillips Brooks, and we went right up close to the place where 
Ihe firemen were working. There were hundreds, I don't know but 
thousands of persons in the square at the same time, that being, at that 
moment, the critical point of the fire. 

Then there was another thing I noticed. I don't know exactly what use 
is to be made of this conversation, and this is rather a hard thing to say, 
perhaps ; I don't know the causes of it in the least ; but the firemen all 
the first part of the night, up to midnight, didn't seem to me to work 
with what I call desperation. I didn't see a man work as the crew of a 
ship do, for instance, when they are in danger. There was a sort of 
nonchalance about them, an easy-going way of working, which was not 
coolness ; it was more than coolness, more than indifference to danger. 
They seemed to me to be thoroughly impregnated with the idea that it 
was impossible to do anything with a combustible roof, on top of a five 
or six-story building. They seemed to me to have that idea thoroughly 
ingrained, that it was not to be expected ; that they couldn't do anything. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) Did you see any marked difference the next 
morning? 

A. 1 did, very great. 

Q. Among buildings with a similar style of roof to those on "Winthrop 
square and Franklin street, with granite walls? 

A. Yes, sir, I should say I did. I watched for sometime the fate of the 
buildings on Water street below the building of the " Boston Post," 
The fire was stopped at the building of the " Post " newspaper. I should 
say the firemen there worked with much greater energy and desperation. 
They went up into the building next to the " Post" building, and a 
powerful stream of water was directed upon the fire after it liad pene- 
trated the " Post" building; in fact, the fire was there put out after it 
had well started in the '' Post" building. 

Q. Did 3'ou see many chips of granite fall from the building? 

A. No, I didn't see anything of that. It seemed to me that the fire- 
men had one great excuse for not working in the last [)art of the night 
with vigor. They were not fed all night. To the best of my knowledge 
and belief, no food was given to the firemen during the night. They 
began work at hall-[)ai:t seven, and it seemed to me they were left without 
foofl until the next morning at seven or eight o'clock. 

Q. When you saw the engines playing iu the street up against the 



377 

sides of those buildings, was it more or less hot there than it would have 
been on the roofs of the buildings against which thoy were playing? 

A. The circumstances were various. As a rule, I should say it was 
cooler down in the streets than on the roofs, but I saw men expose them- 
selves very much indeed several times in the street where the buildings 
were on fire on both sides, when it was exceedingly hot in the street ; so 
hot that I couldn't penetrate where these men were working. I saw many 
times men behave with great gallantry. The heat before Hovey's store 
was pretty intense. According to Mr. Gardner, there were only two 
men on the roof. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Was there anything else that you noticed? 

A. Yes. Apropos to this sort of indifference of the firemen, I noticed 
a great deal of what I should call straggling. I saw firemen at a distance 
from the real work walking about the street. They seemed to me to be, 
and I have no doubt they were, firemen who had come in from the 
country. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) Did you see any stragglers whom you recognized 
as Boston firemen ? 

A. No, I couldn't recognize them, they were all dressed so much alike. 
I simply saw, over and over again, firemen a long way from the fire, and 
not doing anything. 

Q. Did you notice any plundering b)'^ firemen ? 

A. I did not. I heard a conversation among firemen about plun- 
dering. It was to the effect that they had been interfered with by the 
police for helping themselves ; and they thought it was rather hard that 
the police interfered with them rather than with civilians who were 
plundering. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) What do you think of the practice of giving 
away goods on such occasions? 

A. I think it is a most pernicious and vicious one. I saw a great deal 
of plundering, which I was entirely powerless to prevent ; and not only 
plundering boots and shoes out of stores, but I saw carts being driven 
away from the fire containing goods taken out of stores, followed by men 
and boys, and the goods talsen out from the rear of the carts, in spite of 
the driver and the man accompanying him. Those were goods on the waj'- 
to a place of safety, which was a little worse than taking goods which 
might be burned up. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Can you tell who those firemen were who com- 
plained that they had been interfered with by the police? 

A. I am sorry to say, they were from Cambridge. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) Did you see any lack of force to the streams 
for want of fuel? 

A. Oh, yes ; over and over again. 

Q. How early? 

A. As early as half-past nine. I saw them burning boxes which they 
had brought out of the stores in Franklin street, and broken up, as early 
as half-past nine, I supposed for lack of steam. The engine was doing 
nothing. 

Q. Had it been playing before? 

A. It had been playing, and was in a position to play ; that is, was 
attached to a hydrant ; but the engine was doing nothing, and the men 



378 

were breaking up boxes at the side of the engine, and were putting the 
wood into the fire. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) Do you remember what engine that was? 

A. I didn't notice. I afterwards saw other engines, over and over 
again, out of coal. They seemed to me to whistle for coal. I repeatedly 
heard Ihem whistle, and not get an}', apparently. Of course, 1 only saw 
it in passing by. I didn't stand by the engine ; I passed by, and saw that 
condition of things. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) In the cases j'ou now refer to, were the engines 
throwing water while whistling? 

A. 1 sliould say not, all of them ; some of them were, I saw engines 
repeatedly which were stopped, whistling for coal ; if that was what the 
whistling meant. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) To the best of your opinion, how many did 
you see not working, but whistling? 

A. I should say four or five before midnight. I only remember seeing 
them breaking up boxes for fuel once. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbuick.) Did you see anything that appeared like a 
lack of water supply for the engines? 

A. No, sir; I saw nothing of that. The supply of water seemed to 
me to be superb all night along. 

Q. Didn't it occur to you that the lack of height in the streams might 
be due to the fact that the engines expended their power in drawing 
water from a small hydrant, where it did not flow to them? 

A. It-did not occur to me. The lack of height in the streams, I sup- 
posed to be due to the fact that they were using, as a rule, a very large 
nozzle, and also to the fiict that they did not force the engine to do its 
utmost ; 1 suppose, because they were afraid of bursting the hose ; how- 
ever, that is mere supposition on my part. I saw, Sunday morning, 
splendid streams of water played over the top of the building called the 
City .Exchange, on Devonshire street. 

Q. Were those streams played from the street? 

A. Oh, no, sir. The hose was carried up on the inside, and then a very 
powerful stream delivered on the roof. I never saw a stream of water 
thiown over a building on the street, that I know of, during the night; 
I don't remember seeing any such. 

Q. (By Mr. Kdssell.) Do you think of anything else? 

A. is'o, I don't think of anything else. 

Q (By Mr. Philbrick.) Did you see any of the results bj' the ex- 
plosion of powder? 

A. No, 1 can't say that I did. I saw attempts made to blowup build- 
ings, that were unsuccessful. I cannot sa^"^ that I saw a successful 
explosion, one which produced a result in the wa^' of stopping the fire. 

Q. Where were the unsuccessful ones that 3'ou noticed? 

A. There was one at the corner of Milk and Washington streets — 
the Currier & Trott building. There was another in Kdby street, per- 
haps halfway between State street and Liberty square, on the upper 
side as you go from Lindall street; that building, I think, was aiter- 
wards blown down. 

Q. What was the condition of that building? 

A. It was well down. It was not on fire when I saw it. 



379 

Q. "Well shaken down? 

A. Well shaken down, yes, sir. 

Q. Do you think the fire was checked by the use of powder, so far as 
you saw it, in any case ? 

A. I saw so little of the blowing up that I should not feel competent 
to saj' anything about that. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) Did you notice the withdrawal of the engines 
from the neighborhood of Currier & Trott's building, while the prepar- 
ations for blowing up were being made? 

A. No, I did not. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Did you see any drunkenness on the part of 
the firemen? 

A. I did, Sunday morning. 

Q. Where was tbat? 

A. On Water street and Broad street. 

Q. To what extent? 

A. Perhaps I saw two or three men, not more, and it struck me as. 
very excusable. 

Q. In the case of men who could not get food, and could get liquor ? 

A. Exactly. I did not blame them at all, as it seemed to me the 
neglect was on the part of those who did not feed them. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) When you first arrived at the fire, did it 
©ccuv to you that there was a probability of having a great fire? 

A. I intended to go home, so little did it seem to me possible that the 
fire should extend beyond that place ; but it occurred to me that I would 
walk around the water side of the fire, and go up Summer street, and it 
was then I saw the fire cross Summer street, and it struck me as so ex- 
traordinary that I stayed. 

(By Mr. Firth.) Was not the rapidity with which the fire spread 
very noticeable to 3'ou from the beginning? 

A. It was, on that building at the corner of Kingston street, on 
Church Green ; but that it should cross Summer street without resist- 
ance, that, I should say, struck me as most astonishing at the time ; and 
the rapid course of the fire along both sides of Otis street was astound- 
ing. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) Were there many cases of fire passing from 
one building to another, except from one roof to another? 

A. Not in the early part of the fire. I should say, not before half- 
past nine ; but later in the night, on Federal street and Pearl street, I 
saw buildings burst into flame throughout, apparently, at once. The 
roof took a" little at first, but the buildings were all in a blaze nearly 
simultaneous!}'. 

Q. That was owing to the previous roasting, was it not? 

A. That was in consequence of the great roasting. The conducting 
power of granite is very considerable. 

CYRUS A. PAGE, sworn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) You are a member of the City Council? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. What time did you go to the fire? 



380 

A. I should judge it was about half-past eight, as near as I can re- 
snerabev. 

Q. What time did you go to the City Hall, if you did go there? 

A. I think I went to the City Hall between one and two o'clock, if I 
iremeraber right. 

Q. Who did yon see there? 

A. I saw tlie Mayor, Alderman Jenks, General Burt, and Chief En- 
gineer Dararell. 

Q. Did you receive any written document from Mr. Damrell ? 

A. I did. 

Q. Have you that here? 

A. I have not got it about me. 

Q. What was it? 

A. It was a permit to blow up buildings and remove goods. 

Q. Did 3'ou have any talk with the Mayor? 

A. Yes, sir ; general conversation. 

Q, What was the conversation with the Mayor about? The fire? 

A. Well, I don't know ; general conversation. I don't remember any- 
thing in particular. He requested me to send any members of the gov- 
ernment I might find around the fire to the City Hall. 

Q. How did the Mayor appear? Did he seem self-possessed, or other- 
wise? 

A. Well, quite calm, I should think ; a little nervous, of course, but 
not particularly excited. 

Q. How did Mr. Damrell appear? 

A. Ho was considerably excited, I should say. 

Q. Did 3^ou receive charge of any section of the city? 

A. My permit did not designate any. 

Q. Did you have any verbal instructions? 

A. Yes. They sort of districted us off a little. 

Q. What was your district? 

A. Mine was Franklin street and Washington street, if I remember 
right. 

Q. You do not mean the whole of Washington street? 

A. Oh, no ; Franklin, near Washington. 

Q. Did anybody tell you to take that district, or did you say you 
would take it? 

A. I guess they asked me. I do not remember whether they asked 
for a person to take charge there, or requested me to go there. I can- 
not say about that. 

Q. Did you see any explosions in that portion of the city? 

A. I should prefer not to answer any questions in regard to explo- 
sions. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) How far had the fire progressed when j^ou reached 
the fire ground ? 

A. I went down Washington, through Bedford to Kingston ; and when 
I got there, it had not crossed Summer street, if I remember right. I 
did not go to the Summer-street side of the fire until aiterwards. I 
went up into Kingston street, and not having m}' badge with me, I could 
not get by. I went down Bedford street into Summer, and then went 



381 

down Summer on to Broad street, through Pearl, and all round throu<Th 
there. 

Q. Did you see the fire cross Summer sti-eet at all, right in front of 
the first building that took fire ? 

A. I do not know that I saw it cross ; but I saw the fire after it 
crossed. 

Q. Did you see anything done to extinguish the fire at that point? 

A. I saw steamers there. 

Q. Did you see any streams? 

A. I did not see any streams of water on the fire there, at all. 

Q. Did you see any ladder? 

A. I do not remember that I did. 

Q. Could you see the side of the building on Otis street from where 
you stood? ' 

A. No, sir ; because I was down Summer street, near Church Green, 
and I could only see what was done in front. 

Q. So that they might have been at work in the rear, and you not 
noticed it? 

A. Oh, yes, sir. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) In view of j^our experience that night in 
the use of powder, would you, in any similar case, advise the blowing 
up of buildings? 

A. I do not consider myself an expert on that matter, exactly. 

Q. Whether, in your judgment, anything was gained, on the whole, 
by the use of gunpowder that night? 

A. I should rather prefer to leave that an open question. 

THOMAS HILLS, sivorn. 

Q. (By Mr. Eussell.) What is your present position? 

A. I am chairman of the Boaixl of Assessors. 

Q. Have j^ou prepared any figures in reference to the loss by the fire? 

A. I made some on the day of the fire, on Sunday, the tenth of No- 
vember, which I gave to the editor of the " Boston Journal," for publica- 
tion on Monday morning, the substantial accuracy of which I have since 
seen no reason to doubt. I placed the loss then at eighty-five millions of 
dollars, claiming throughout that it was an over-estimate ; and really be- 
lieving, when I made the figures, that seventy-five millions was nearer 
the total loss than eighty-five millions. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) What does that loss consist in ? 

A. In buildings and in personal property. Perhaps I ought to say, 
that in making the estimates in the manner I did, I was obliged to take 
gross amounts. There was no time for details at that time, and I threw 
everything that was in doubt in my own mind in favor of loss, in order 
that no person should be able, when they got at the details, to prove 
that I had underrated it, because I felt that my natural tendency 
would be, perhaps, to underestimate, or understate. The reasoning I 
gave is all in print, and is at 3-our service. I would only like to say on 
this point, that I have since had an opportunity to verify my estimate of 
the loss in the Fifth Ward, that is, everything south of Milk street, — 
which I claimed was twelve and a half millions, — by our books, and I 



382 

find that the exact amount was, $11,991,300. I have had that taken 
from the books by the clerk of that ward, who is thoroughly conversant 
with the books, and it is about as much of an over-estimate as I ex- 
pected. 

Q. Have you the number of buildings destroyed ? 

A. Yes, sir. The same paper will give you, with a very few errors 
incident to the haste with which the work had to be done, the buildings 
destroyed, the names of the owners, and the names of the occupants. It 
was drawn off on Sunday, while the fire was still raging, in the oflSce, 
and I myself called off some of the figures, and some of the clerks the 
rest. I have since revised it, and I find an omission of only two build- 
ings, at the northerly end of the fire, tVhere I suppose they were in some 
doubt whether the buildings had burned or not, when the paper went to 
press. 

Q. (By Mr. Edssell.) Does your ofiice specify the value of the 
buildings, and the value of the land? 

A. Yes, sir ; the value of the land, as will be seen by the statement I 
have made, was, as nearly as may be, two-thirds of the whole estates. 
The value of the buildings, fine as they M^ere, was only one-third. 
These estimates were made because at that time the figures were getting 
to be enormous ; people talked about them as though they did not know 
what figures meant. The loss was stated as high as one hundred and 
fifty millions, and even two hundred millions. I thought such figures as 
these might have a tendency to stop that exaggeration ; and although I 
made no mention of that element, it was one of the reasons which 
induced me to say that when I put it at eighty-five millions, I consid- 
ered that estimate as something which could not be gone beyond. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) What should you state to-daj^, as the probable 
IoslS? 

A. Seventy-five millions. 

Q (By Mr. Russell.) You have allowed for salvage? 

A. Yes, sir ; two millions. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) Have you thought sufl3ciently. on the subject to 
be able to state what would be the difference in the value of the land to- 
day, as compared with the value it had before the fire? 

A. Not materially changed, I should say. The sales made since the 
fire are of such a character that it leads me to say that our valuation of 
it was a good one, and has been sustained. Take, for instance, the sale 
in Pearl street, where the land with the old material on the ground, 
which was thrown in, was sold for thirteen dollars a foot. Our valua- 
tion was twelve dollars a foot. There has been a sale of land in Devon- 
shire street since, which we valued at sixteen dollars a foot; Mr. Gard- 
ner Brewer pays a little over nineteen dollars a, foot. A piece of land 
has been sold in Summer street, within a day or two, for which the par- 
ties realized seventeen dollars a foot ; our valuation was eleven dollars. 

Q. Whereabouts Avas that? 

A. That was opposite Church Green. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Have you the valuation of the real estate — 
the land? 

A. No, sir ; I have not got that here, but it is just double the value of 
the buildings. I tested tlaat in two or three ways, and found the value 



383 

of the buildings was one third of the value of the estate. Taking these 
very figures, twelve and a half millions in Ward 5, and one million, six 
hundred thousand dollars in Ward 4, — that is, north of Milk street, — 
double that amount, and you will get as nearly as may be the value of 
the land. Of course the higher the price of the land, the larger propor- 
tion the land would bear to the buildings. It costs almost as much to 
put up good buildings on land worth eight dollars a foot as it does in 
places where land is worth twenty dollars a foot. If you take twelve 
dollars a foot as an average price for the whole territory, I should not 
think you would go far out of the way. The cost of the buildings, of 
course, varies ; still I should say, that would not be very far out of the 
way for the cost of the buildings at the time they were erected. They 
could not be erected now for that, or anything like it. The amount in- 
sured is a pretty fair test. An article was published in the " Daily Ad- 
vertiser," of Nov. 21st, giving a statement of the amount of insurance 
on the propert3\ I roughly cast up the amount, and found it to be fift}'- 
two millions ; and consequently I was not at all surprised when I found 
in the " Herald," of December 8, that they placed the entire loss by the 
Insurance Companies at $52,076,600 ; and it seems to me, in the propor- 
tion at which property is usually insured, that is another very strong in- 
dication that seventy-five millions is as nearly as may be the amount of 
loss. There is one other item, — the item of wool. Mr. George 
Williara Bond has made a very careful estimate, and I got this document 
from him within a day or two. He puts the loss of wool at four and a 
half millions ; but if we had credited the accounts that were given of 
the immense loss in that line a few days after the fire, two or three firms 
would have lost more money on wool than the total loss as there repre- 
sented. I make the number of buildings destroyed 547 ; that might be 
varied as people would count, but not much. One man might call two 
estates what another would call one, and then, where the fire ended, one 
man would call a partially burnt building a destroyed estate, and 
another would say, " No, that was not destroyed." 

Q. (By Mr. PniLBKiCK.) In the case of a block of buildings built and 
owned by one party, how do you estimate it? 

A. I take them as separate estates. 

Q. Each number? 

A. Not each number, because, you know, some of those mercantile 
firms will have two or three numbers to one estate, perhaps not rnore 
than twenty feet wide, but where there are party-walls, we call each one 
a separate estate. Of those five hundred and forty-seven buildings 
burned, there were two churches, sixty-eight dwelling and lodging-houses, 
and four hundred and seventy places devoted solel}' to business. 

Q. (By Mr. Fiuxn.) Did you know how many persons were in those 
dwelling-houses ? 

A. That could have been obtained, but we didn't go into that. They 
were pretty thick for the number of dwelling-houses. The dwelling- 
houses were in South, Summer, Bedford, Kingston, and Purchase streets, 
and a few scattered around in the places on Fort Hill, where the occu- 
pants were very numerous. I think twenty-eight out of the sixty -eight 
were on Purchase street. 



384 

Q. How was the south side of Oliver street ; were there any dwelling, 
Louses left there? 

A, They had all been taken away. Fortunately, Fort Hill had been 
taken down, and that saved property enough to coA^er all the expense of 
its removal. I make out by our books that about nine hundred and 
eightj'-five business firms, that we assessed, were dispossessed 
of their localities. A young gentleman, who was formerly connected 
with our office, went over the books, as a matter of curiosity, and he made 
nine hundred and ninety-nine. ' 

Q. (By Mr. Philbkick.) That is about double the number of 
stores ? 

A. Yes, sir ; but many places had four or five tenants. That number 
would not include very many other persons who did business there ; for 
instance, the agents of corporations, express oflRces, and out-of-town 
people who paid taxes elsewhere, and not here. It includes only those 
that we assessed. Very many of the shoe and leather people have 
nothing but samples, and yet do a very large business, but they are not 
assessed by us. On the question of loss, Mr. E. H. Derby prepared an 
article, which was published in the "Advertiser." I had some conversa- 
tion with him about it, and found that he arrived at the same figures 
which I believe in, by a diflferent method. His method was, to take the 
taxes of the United States upon sales, which last j'ear shows sales to the 
amount of nine hundred millions. He estimates that it is a thousand 
millions to-day, and from that he estimates the amount of stock on hand 
for three months, and then the proportion in the burnt district, and he 
comes to the same conclusion. 

Q. (By Mr. F^rth.) Did he come to that conclusion before these 
data had been published ? 

A. I think he did, because I made my figures in rough, on Sunday, 
before I left the office, and took them home, and that night put them in 
shape, in pencil, and the next morning took my pencil draft from the 
desk and wrote it in ink for the paper. I had just finished when Mr. 
Derby came in, and asked me what I thought of the loss. He expressed 
his views, which I heard with some interest, and then handed him my 
paper, and I remember that he stood for ten minutes trying to get. me 
to take off that ten millions, so that he and I would come together. But 
my purpose was to make an over-estimate, and claim it as an over-esti- 
mate, for I did not want to be ciphered down by anybody. 

The following note was received and read from the City Surveyor : — 

Boston, Dec. 12, 1872. 
Hon. Thomas Rd.s.'^eli., Chairman of Fire Commission:— 

Sir. — By approximate estimate, the Burnt District (by fire of Nov. 9tli and 10th, 1872) contains 
eixty-five acres. This includes the whole area within the fire limits. 

Very respectfully, 

THOMAS W. DAVIS, City Surveyor. 



385 



WILLIAM L. BURT, sworn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) You are the Postmaster of Boston? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. At what time did j^ou go to the fire? 

A. As soon as the alarm was struck. I was then at the South end, 
and went directly, as quick as a car would carry me, down to the fire, 
and arrived there before it had got beyond the two adjoining buildings. 

Q. Did you see it cross Summer street to Otis? 

A. Yes, sir ; I saw it just as it was crossing the other side from the 
corner of Kingston street. 

Q. How did it cross Summer street to Otis? Where did it take on 
the Otis-slreet side ? 

A. It caught in the window of the" building on the corner of Otis 
towards Washington, on the oniamentation of the frieze of the high 
window. I found the street crowded, and went round and came down 
on the Summer-street side, in order to see. The wind was driving the 
smoke and fire the other way. I went down on the High-street side, and 
then came round up the other side, so I did not see at that precise point 
how it crossed. I saw it where it had taken, where it was burning. 

Q. Did 3-ou notice what means were taken to prevent its crossing? 

A. I did not. The department were gathered in stronger force, 
though, to the leeward of the fire, than on the other side, at that time. 
It was very obvious that they were stronger on the leeward side than 
they were on the Summer-street side. At first, all the engines as they 
came, — the lighter engines of the regular service here, — were put in 
that direction. The reserve, the old engines, — there were four of them, 
I think, — were soon on the ground, within an hour and a half, and they 
were placed in very strong force in the direction in which the fire was 
working. My impression is, that as the wind was carrying the fire, they 
did in the first instance what any one would do : put the strength of the 
department in that direction. 

Q. Which way was it carried ; straight down Summer street? 

A. No, sir ; the wind was carrying it at an angle. As it took in the 
corner, the wind carried it almost in an angle from the old Church Green 
block, right across Bedford street, and towards Lincoln street. The 
wind was very positive, and the effect \vas obvious. Until I got around 
to the corner of Devonshire street, I did not feel very much concerned 
in regard to the spread of the fire in that direction, as I did the other 
way. The fire beat up to the windward faster in the course of an hour, 
than at any fire I ever saw. 

Q. Did 3'ou notice anything that you think the Commission ought to 
hear, until the gunpowder period of the fire? 

A. Yes, sir. Knowing exactly where the lookout is on the City Hall, 
and where the fire was, it seems to me a miracle that it was not seen from 
the lookout before the alarm was given from the box. If you go to the 
top of City Hall, 3'Ou can look down on the corner where that building 
stood ; there is nothing intervening. 

After the fire crossed Summer street, it spread in every direction, 
crossing Otis street and attacking the Bcebe block in the upper stories. 
All those buildings were on fire very quick, so that the firemen were 
25 



386 

driven back ; then the impression on my mind was this, that there were 
no means of reaching those buildings to operate with the Fire Depart- 
ment satisfactorily. That the fire was beyond our control was just as 
evident at ten o'clock that night as it was the next morning. Yon would 
see buihlings take fire above, and the up];»er stories would be all con- 
sumed before any fire was apparent in the lower story. For instance, 
Beebe's block (that is as good an illustration as you could have) was 
burned out above, the roof had fallen in, and one could look directly 
through to the sky, when the lower stories were entirely untouched, down 
to the grousid ; and in many cases, the debris falling from the roofs to the 
sidewalk kindled a second fire before the stores had burned down 
through from above. 

One suggestion in regard to means of reaching these high buildings. 
The firemen will not go into such places. Take the Beel)c block, bounded 
by Otis and Devonshire streets. It was very soon evident that any men 
who should go on to those roofs would be driven back from roof to roof, 
and finally, at the end of the block, there wonld be no escape for them. 
Our ladders were not long enough to reach the roofs ; the fires got under 
the Mansards, and they wonld burn first. .It was evident there would 
be no means of escape. That was the terrible peril to which firemen 
would be exposed who should go on to such buildings without any prepa- 
ration made for their rescue finally, if they should be driven back 
over the block, as they would be in every case. There was no stand 
made against the fire in this direction. There were points where the 
firemen attempted to control it, but there was no concerted stand made 
in two or three streets at once, so that the firemen in one street would 
feel that they would be assisted by those in the adjoining sti-eets. The fire 
would soon fiank them, and they were driven back hour by hour all night. 
There was no S3'stematic attempt made to reinforce the men who were 
fighting the fire on Summer street by those in Franklin street. There 
was a great depth of buildings between Summer and Franklin, and there 
were places where it was possible, it seemed to me, to control it ; in the 
rear of the Mercantile Building, for instance. But I saw no where any 
any such co-operation as would give the firemen the confidence needed 
at such a time. 

Another thing I noticed. The engines which came in fiom out-of- 
town located themselves without much direction or pre-arrangement. 
The reinforcements which came in to take part in the battle (for it 
really was a battle with fire) should have been located with precise 
reference to what it was proposed to do, with reference to some plan. 
The fire was then getting so large that it required a sj-stcmatic de- 
fence, a R3-stematic resistance, and no such dt^fence appeared to be 
made. These things impressetl themselves upon my mind strongly, 
when I saw how the fire was working this way. It told its whole 
lesson in an hour. It was as obvious what we ought to do in one hour 
from the time the fire started, as it was towards morning. 

Q. At what time did you go to the City Hall? 

A. The first time, before twelve o'clock. 

Q. "What took place there? 

A. 1 went there four or five times. The first time I went to the City 
Hall, I went in at the rear entrance and went up stairs. I went there 
with this view, to have the Mayor and city authorities, as many as could 



387 



be found, meet at the City Hall. I supposed as soon as people saw the 
condition of things, they would all look for some head-quarters, because 
there must be some place where everj'body who was doing anythino- that 
night could report for instructions, orders and co-operation. I supposed 
that very early they would begin to gather there. I could find no one 
who could give me au}^ account of anybody, except that I was told that 
Capt. Damrell had been there only a little while belbre, and had gone 
back to the fire. The clerk of the Chief of Police was at the telegraph 
in Police Station No. 2, adjoining the City Hall. I asked the man in 
charge of the City Hall, at the lower door, to light it up. He said he 
would like to do so, if he had authority to do it. I told him I would be 
very glad to take the responsibility ; that they did not know the danger 
the city was in, and asked him to light up the Aldermen's room and the 
Mayor's room, particularly, and if any question was asked, whatever the 
result was, I would be personally responsible, so far as any citizen could 
be. He hesitated, and finally asked me to go into the 2d Police Sta- 
tion and sec the clerk of the Chief of Police, as I understood him. I 
went there and found some of the officers of the station. I found they 
were bringing in men with little packages of goods, whom they appeai-ed 
to be arresting for stealing. That was before twelve o'clock. I urged 
them to stop that at once, and organize a system to take care of the 
goods ; that the amount that would be stolen in that way would be 
trifling ; that nine men out of ten would not steal at such a time, but all 
could be relied upon, if organized, to assist in getting the goods out of 
the stores and taking them to a place of safet3% I went to the fire and 
returned to the City Hall three or four times, in great anxiety. I don't 
think I ever suffered more in two hours, mentally, than I did that night 
from before twelve o'clock until half-past one. 1 urged them again and 
again to light the City Hall, and they promised that it should be done, 
but it was not done, and there was no light in the building, whatever 
else maj^ have been done to call the people in, until nearl}"- two o'clock. 

Q. What took place then? 

A. I came again to the City Hall, and seeing lights above, I hurried 
to the door. As I came to the door, this same watchman came to me 
and said, "The Mayor is up stairs now ; he has just come in, and Capt. 
Damrell has gone in with him." I hurried up stairs and found ten or 
twelve people there, among whom was Capt. Damrell and four five of 
the Aldermen, whose countenances I recollected. The impression was 
made on my mind that we had men there who would be recognized 
wherever they were seen as men in authority in the city. 

Q. What conversation did you have with the Mayor and Chief? 

A. This conversation occurred. The Mayor said : " Wc are here ; what 
do you want?" I told them that I had urged sending for them, because 
it seemed to me that the fire was destined to sweep the whole city, unless 
there was some organized resistance, and it seemed to me that the time 
had come when we should accomplish nothing, unless we blew up build- 
ings ; that the firemen were falling back before the fire, they were losing 
confidence, and that some energetic action was required. The Mayor 
said : *•' I have no authority in the matter ; that is in the control of Capt. 
Damrell by law." 1 replied, "Mr. Maj'or, before to-morrow morning, if 
you look out of that window (if the City liall is saved, which I doubt, 
unless there is something done), you will see the shipping iu the harbor." 



388 

Said he, "Would you take the responsibility of blowing up buildings ?'*^ 
I said if I had the authority, as he had it, I certainly would. He said I 
was mistaken ; he had not the authority ; (hat by law it was vested iu the 
Chief Engineer and the Assistant Engineers of the Fire Department. I 
told liim it was an exigency that i-equired immediate action ; the people 
would not hold us blameless (using that expression), if we allowed this 
city to burn. I then told him that I had already commenced packing my 
mails at the Post Office ; that the fire would shortly come to State street ; 
that if we could not stop it in a broad street like Franklin, we could not 
hope to stop it in narrow streets like Water and Lindall, and that it 
seemed to me the peril was imminent for the Post OiSce, the Sub-Treasury, 
and all the banks. On that, Capt. Damrell said, "I have determined to 
use powder, although it is against my judgment. I think the experience 
of Chicago is against it." The Mayor said, in connection with that, 
" Yes, sir, and as we are situated, the risk to lives will be very great." 
I replied to Capt. Damrell, that it was absolutely necessary, in my judg- 
ment, to use powder, and in answer to the suggestion of the Mayor, I 
said, " To-morrow moi'ningwill see ten men killed in fighting this fire with 
water, to one killed in fighting it with powder." This conversation was 
all very hurried, and what they said to me was not in the way of fault- 
finding, but of suggestions as to what was their duty as men in respon- 
sible positions. I then said to them, that we had all the United States 
Government property in our custody, as well as that of the city and citi- 
zens, and if no one else was to take the responsibility, certainly we must 
do something ; it would be disgraceful to have this city burn down, as it 
had been burning for the past four hours, or since nine o'clock. Then 
the Mayor turned and asked if I was willing to take the responsibility of 
using powder, if I had the authority. I told him I was. He said, 
" I will give you the authority', so far as I have it." I told hnn I did not 
care where it came from ; I wanted it in proper form, and I should cer- 
tainly take the responsibilit3\ He said, " Capt. Damrell alone can 
give that authority. I said, " I want it in writing, and when I have it, 
I will advise with him how it ought to be used." The Mayor then asked 
Capt. Damrell to come to his desk, and the Captain sat down and wrote 
such authority as would protect me in doing what I proposed to do. 
After he had done this I asked for eight or ten citizens to take charge of 
each of the streets around the fire. I said, " Let each of these men go to 
each street, with two policemen." Then Capt. Damrell said, '• Who will 
volunteer?" I turned to two gentlemen whom I saw there, whom I knew, 
and called upon them to aid us. One was the chairman of tiie Water 
Board, and we made out sis or seven in all, and each man went with two 
policemen, and every street and place was designated. Capt. Damrell 
said he would take care personally of the district from Franklin street 
around towards the south part of the city. 

Q. (Dy Mr. PniLBitiCK.) Did Capt. Damrell allot the other districts to 
the several men ? 

A. No, sir ; I allotted them. There was little said but what I said 
at this meeting. I requested that an order should be given to the police 
to open the gates of the Common, to form lines to the burning district, 
and pass the goods from the western section of the fire to the Common, 
and from the easterly section to the open ground on Fort Ilill. There 
was no place where goods could be saved except on the Common on the 



389 

one side, find Fort Hill on the other. They asked if I thought the fire 
would spread in the direction of Fort Hill. I told them that it was 
already burning on the Fort Hill district, and the people wei-e piling up 
goods in the streets in that direction, which would obstruct the firemen, 
and the goods would inevitably be destroyed. I said, " You can make 
nine out often of the men in the crowds of service in helping to remove 
goods to those places and watching them, and we will have them all or- 
ganized into a system in half an hour." The gentlemen to have charge 
of each street were named, and the places where they were to go desig- 
nated. I remained in the hall until I saw four or five of them go out, 
•each with two policemen, and these instructions. We were told there 
was powder sufficient for all purposes ; that the powder-boat had come 
round to the end of Central wharf, or City wharf, and the powder would 
be delivered to us in the streets as soon as we got there, and that fuse 
had been provided. The suggestion was made, if we got short of powder 
we should go down to Reed's gun-shop and get powder there. I told 
them it would not do. It seemed to increase the danger, in the disor- 
dered state of the city, for mere citizens to break into a store, distant 
from the fire, to procure powder ; but that the police should go to the 
store, find out what powder there was there, and have it taken out prop- 
erly, if we had to resort to tiiat. 

I went down to my district with two policemen. I told them that I 
would take charge on Devonshire street and Federal street ; that I 
would not be further off than the old Post-Office or new Post-Office build- 
ing. I took a paper and marked out the line that we must try to save 
on Washington street ; put the engines in there, take the line of the Old 
South, the new Post-Office building, and the old Post Office, and fight 
the fire on that line, and not fall back, no matter what it cost ; not to 
blow up any buildings west of Washington street until we had met to- 
gether in City Hall, and to report there, if there was an}' emergenc}'- or 
special disaster, and let each other know what they were doing. I think, 
decidedlv, that the position which was then taken helped us to hold that 
line. The first difficulty we encountered was, that the powder furnished 
us was used up immediately. There was but little of it. 

Q. What amount of powder did j-ou have first? 

A. We had less than four hundred pounds, all told, in the kegs that 
were brought ; twenty-five pound kegs and some small canisters. We 
used that up at once. Before leaving the Mayor's room at City Hall, I 
said to the Mayor and Capt. Damrell, " I shall go down to ^Vinthrop 
square, or as near as I can get to it, and blow up the entire block between 
Federal and Devonshire, running back to the new Post Office. If we 
can do that, I think we can keep the fire under control in that direction." 
The first plan was to blow up the buildings on the souih side of Franklin 
street, below Devonshire, to prevent the fire from crossing Franklin 
street. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) Had not the fire crossed from Devonshire 
to Federal street at midnight? 

A. Ko, sir ; it had not at Franklin street, at twelve o'clock. What I 
said was, 'if we had got to work an hour earlier, the fire could have been 
held from crossing Franklin street. It crossed over and came on to the 
Gardner Brewer estate, the old theatre estate on the opposite corner. 



390 



and from there to the other side of Franklin square, going across Devon- 
shire street into the Revere-Bank building. 

Q. What was the first use you saw made of powder? 

A. In the blocks of stores between Devonsliire and Federal streets. 
We used it between Franklin and Milk streets, lightly, at first, but we 
used it quite severely afterwards. I will say here, that I cannot give 
you localities ; I will give them to you generally, and in the confusion it 
would be impossible for me to locate particular stores and numbers oa 
the streets. I will say this, that there was no building blown up that 
night for which I would have given an ordinary stra\y liat, at the time 
we did it, no matter how much the building might have cost. There was 
some very severe blowing up in the buildings below Morton place, and 
there were strong hopes that we were going to keep the fire back there. 
All that prevented it from crossing Milk street and attacking the Old 
South church estates was blowing up the buildings in the rear, east of 
Morton place. It was held back until the buildings were sufficiently 
burned out, so that when the walls fell, the flames did not cross the 
street. 

Q. Where did that powder come from ? 

A. That night, before 1 left the hall, I asked the Mayor to have the 
militia ca>lled out ; to send to Gen. Cunningham's house, in Lynde street,, 
and have him order the militia out instantly, get them out before morning, 
and to send to the Navy Yard for powder, in which I would join him, 
and also for Marines, which we should have to protect the government 
property. I knew we could get them at once. All these things were 
suggested at City Hall before we left, and the first powder that we used 
that was of any service came from the Navy Yard. The first I knew of 
its arrival, a man with a red cap on came up to me on Devonshire street, 
and said, " We have the powder here." — '• Where is it?" — "Back here 
in Devonshire street." I went with him to the place, and found a one- 
horse load of powder, covered with blankets. I said, " Where is 3'our 
driver?" At that time, engines were working on Devonshire street, and 
throwing their burning cinders in every direction. I told him the pow- 
der was wanted up in front. He said his driver had run off and left it. 
I told him to get on the wagon and take his flag, and I took his horse 
and led him by the engines. The blankets were covered with sparks, 
but we got the wagon up to the front, and then we went behind the 
wagon, shook the sparks off" of the blankets, and took first a one hundred 
pound keg and carried it into a building ; that was the first hundred- 
pound package that was used. A number of men came up as soon as the 
first flurry was over, to assist, and we had some seven or eight men who 
were exceedingly efficient, taking every risk that men could on such 
an occasion. We emptied that load and used it south of Milk slrcet. 
In fact, 1 satisfied myself that we should be able to stop the fire on the 
line laid down, as far as the new Post-Office building, and save that 
building. We were then between Milk and Franklin streets, towards the 
head of Milk. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Did this powder-man want a receipt? 
A. Yes, sir ; when these other men came up, which the^' did immedi- 
ately, he turned round to me, and, touching his hat in military style, iuid, 
" General, now I shall want my receipt lor this." That man went twice , 
to Charlestowu and brought us two loads. I then sent the wagon that 



391 

goes with the fire brigade to Chelsea for a load from there. I kept a little 
run of what we used, and my impression is that we burnt between three 
and four tons that night, and I had five tons in the street, when we 
stopped the next morning. I had two tons in North Market street, a 
ton and a half in Dock square, and a ton on State street. In the door- 
waj^s on the north side of State street, kegs of powder had been placed 
ready for use if the emergency required. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) Where did the bulk of the powder come 
from ? 

A. I think Commodore Parrott arranged, after we sent to the Navy 
Yard for the first load, to have it from Chelsea. Some came from the 
powder-boat, and also some from the forts. 

Q. Did you get it as fast as you wanted it? 

A. Yes, sir ; but not till about four o'clock. I think we did wrong in 
stopping the use of it when we did ; we could have prevented the fire 
from going to Liberty square. It must not be forgotten that the buildings 
between Milk, Water and Lindall streets, south of Congress, were all 
old-fashioned, plain granite buildings, with ordinary small windows, and 
with partitions carried through to the roofs. These burned one by one, 
none of them catching by the roofs, as in the case of the Mansards, and 
for three hours the fire burned through these streets, finally reaching 
and crossing Liberty square. I think we could have saved two hours of 
that burning with powder. I would have gone in and blown out some of 
the stores in these blocks. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) Why did you not do it? 

A. The controversy with Alderman WooUey caused a revocation of 
the order and we were stopped. 

What we did was this : When it became evident that we were first 
getting the fire under some control, we had blown up a number of build- 
ings, one of which was near the new Post Office, on the easterly side. It 
was the merest chance in the world that the fire crossed into Simmons's 
block, on the north side of Water street. Five minutes would have en- 
abled us to save that, and it was the merest chance that the "Post" 
building was saved. It burned around the corner, and into the window, 
and had got fairly started, but by going into the new Post-Office build- 
ing, and working from the inside of the "Post" building itself, it w\as 
saved. This is the only wooden Mansard that was thoroughly on fire 
and yet was saved, in the city ; and it could not have been done but for 
the protection of the fire-proof building, the new Post Office, in its front. 
The charge of powder that was put in the building below the new Post 
Office was not heavy enough ; the building was slight in its construction, 
and the explosion raised it and pitched it forward into a pile ; the firemen 
came up and had three streams there instantly ; in fact, the firemen stood 
just round the corner as the fuse was burning ; they did not fall back, 
and had it not been for the gas that came up and set the whole pile on 
fire, and drove the firemen back, we should have stopped it there, and it 
would not have crossed to Simmons's block. The gas was the greatest 
danger and trouble we had that night. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) Did you shut off the gas supply? 

A. No, sir, we couid not find the gas company's men. AVe sent to the 
gas office on West street, anil I went once myself, but no officer could 
be found connected with the gas company that night, from the time the 



392 

fire broke out until it was broad dayliglit. I could not find a man who 
knew anything about the street pipes or knew where any one could be 
found who did know. The olBce in West street is usually kept opeu all 
night. Mr. Greenough is a very efficient man, and how it happened that 
no one who had control of the pipes in the street could be found that 
night, I cannot understand. There was never such \ combination of 
misfortunes aviywhere as there was during that night and until nearly ten 
o'clock the next morning. 

Q. Won't you describe how the gas worked? 

A. We blew up one building so that the firemen could come up and 
control it. The roof fell in, and the whole came down, so that we were 
in shape to control it. The firemen got to work, and there came a 
second explosion that raised the whole of the debris; fire shot out through 
it in every direction, and in five minutes from that time it was one mass 
of flame ; and the building burned up with a stream of gas as large as 
my arm, pouring out close to the sidewalk into the ruins, until a space 
twice the length of this room was filled with the glare of gas. No man 
could do anything under such circumstances. This experience was re- 
peated half-a-dozen times. If we could have got at the mains and shut 
off the gas, that difficulty would have been avoided, but this was the 
situation. Very few of the stores along the street there were opened 
by the men who occupied them ; the doors were broken in, in most cases, 
nobody belonging to the stores being there. The occupants Avere not 
there in one case out of ten, and when we did find a man who belonged 
to the store, he had no more idea where the gas or water pipes were than 
the man in the moon. Some of them occupied the upper part of the 
building, and some the lower, and where they occupied the whole ware- 
house, they could not tell where the gas could be shut off. Take one in- 
stance, that of Wright & Potter's large printing establishment. The 
question was a_sked on the ground, where we could cutoff the gas supply, 
and whether it all came into the same meter ; and the answer was, that 
they had two or three meters, and they did not know where it could be 
cut off. In hardly any instance did we succeed in getting the gas cut 
off. Another difficulty in cutting off the gas was, that people were re- 
lying upon it to a certain extent, and tliat was continued until four 
o'clock in the morning. It finally got so, through the loss of gas by the 
open pipes in the ruins, that the supply was exhausted. I found in one 
instance where we blew a building down to the basement on Lindall 
street, the explosion had this effect upon the meter ; it evidently drove 
the meter in forcing a wave of gas through the main pipe, and every gas 
burner went out down State street and in all the buildings ; it had got 
sufficiently weak for that. It got so finally in the Post Office, that when 
we were about to blow up a building, the clerks prepared matches to re- 
light. We lighted up the Post Office several times after the gas had 
been extinguished by these explosions. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Is not that a serious drawback to the use of 
gunpowder? 

A. Yes, sir. It is not the destruction of the building, or the danger 
of fire getting into it ; it is just exactly that. It is obvious that the 
city needs some way of cutting off the gas at the sidewalk, and we must 
be able to shut off a whole district. There were secondary explosions 
all over the burnt district that night, and the heat of the gas was intense ; 



393 

there was enough oxygen combined with it to make it terribly hot. I 
saw, in the most intense part of the fire, huge bodies of gas, you raicrht 
say twenty-five feet in diameter — dark, opaque masses, combined with 
the gases from the piles of burning merchandise — rise two hundred feet 
in the air and explode, shooting out large lines of flame, fifty or sixty 
feet in every direction, with an explosion that was as marked as the ex- 
plosion of a bomb. That occurred half-a-dozen times. Where a build- 
ing had been blown up, so that it fell in ruins, these streams of gas 
would go up to an immense height and explode, so that you could see 
the flame, I presume, fifty or sixty miles. 

I knew that we had mails due that night, one at ten o'clock, from the 
north, and another about half-past eleven o'clock, from New York and 
the west ; and alx)ut eleven o'clock I sent word to the Boston and Al- 
bany depot to have their mail held at the depot, and for the mail wagons 
to come to the Post Office and assist in moving the mails. The man 
who came on the wagon told me that the Engineer on the train on the 
Boston and Albany railroad said, that when they crossed the summit at 
Charlton, he saw the light distinctly, and soon began to see the reflec- 
tion on the sky. That must be sixty or seventy miles from the city. 
He told me that this Engineer said, when they came under the railroad 
bridge at Albany street, it seemed as though they were running directly 
into the flames. They were so high and so immense, that it looked al- 
most like running the train into the fire ; and many passengers jumped 
from the cars and left the train before it reached the station. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) What was the effect of the new Post-Offiee 
building in stopping the flames? 

A. The greatest effect was this — it was perfectly reliable as a stand- 
point ; it was like a fortification ; the engines could fall back there, 
knowing that they could stay there and would not have to move. Every- 
thing about the building was reliable, and there was a crowd on top of 
the building all night. I directed tlie Engineers to permit no water to 
be thrown upon it, and the water was kept off of it ; and, although the 
stagings finally bm-ned, they did not communicate fire even to the lum- 
ber inside. Everybody looked upon that as a sort of place of refuge. 
The line of defence marked out proved just as reliable in fact as it did 
in theory when we left City Hall. 

(By Mr. Piiilbiuck.) What was the best way of placing that pow- 
der, in order to do the greatest execution, in the hurried way j-ou were 
obliged to use it? 

A. It was not so hurried a thing, with the fire burning a whole day. 
The question is, what amount of work can men do in twelve hours? 
There was no danger of the powder exploding prematurely ; not a spoon- 
ful burned any quicker than we intended it should. There was not half 
the danger that people supposed attending it. Take your powder, as 
many kegs as you need, and put them together ; open one of them — one 
is ail you want — and put in 3'our fuse ; and if you have anything to 
confine it, use it. In every instance, we told the men to put on plank, 
or timber, if they could get them. In one instance, in Lindall street, 
we had two joists, set upright over the kegs in such a wa\'- as to hold 
them firmly. When that powder went off, it blew a granite column, 
which was three and a half feet square, clear across the street, and made 



394 

a clean sweep of the building. In one instance, the por/der was placed 
under an arch, in the wall where the flne came down. In that instance, 
it carried the wall up, raising it four stories, to the roof. Get anything 
j'^ou can to brace it down, in order to get the full effect of the first ex- 
plosion ; that is what you want ; the kegs will take care of themselves. 

Q. Will it communicate without loss of time from one keg to another? 

A. Instantly ; there is no question about that ; every keg opened 
is a loss of power. The powder will take care of itself a great 
deal better than you can take care of it. There is no such thing 
as hearing two kegs explode separately inside of a building ; when 
the explosion comes it is instantaneous for all of them. All that 
is required for the use of powder, and using it efQcientl}^ is that 
it shall be put in the right place. There is where a mistake was made 
opposite the Old South Church. Persons came to me three times and 
desired to blow up the Old South Church. I told them, " There is no 
necessity for it ; we can stop the fire there." Finally, they did get some 
small packages in the building opposite the Old South on Milk street. 
This was a mistake. They put that powder on the back side, towards 
the rear wall ; it should have been placed in front, and any bearing they 
got should have been on the front, not the rear wall. That would have 
thrown the building out into the street. Some of the men understood 
that very well. If the explosion at the head of Milk street had been 
managed in that way, it would not have blown out the windows merely, 
but when the explosion took place, it would have blown down the walls 
if they had been two feet thick. As it was, nearly all the effect of the 
explosion was upon the partition wall of the adjoining building. I told 
the men repeatedly not to use less than four or five hundred pounds. It 
was said by some that one hundred and fift}'' pounds was enough. After 
the experience we had that night, I should now say, put in six hundred 
pounds of powder, shore it up, and raise the building from cellar to roof. 
The firemen should be ready and right upon the ground to co operate. 
The fuses used were in many cases altogether too long ; some of them 
would burn eight or ten minutes. Thirty seconds was sometimes long 
enough, and we used some that only burned that time. If the firemen 
stood by and saw the effect of the powder, they soon discovered that the 
danger was very small indeed, and that the explosion opened the way 
for them to do their work. There was not an. instance where there was 
anj'^thing thrown out of a building by the explosion to injure any one. 
The explosion of powder lying on the ground is ten times as dangerous 
as in one of those buildings. They put two or three hundred pounds 
into a building not far from the Post Ofllce, and put in a ten-minute fuse. 
The}' were moving one of the steam engines, and wanted to get it out of 
the way. I went round into the Post Office, went up into my room, 
within three hundred feet of where the explosion was to take place, and 
said to my clerks, " We must get out of the way, for when the explosion 
comes, it will throw us all down." I thought we had about seven min- 
utes to work, but the explosion came before we got down stairs, and it 
blew some of the men several feet, and laid us all flat. It blew all the 
windows out, the heavy doors on that side were shut, the large window 
inside was blown out, and up in the room where we had just stood, there 
was not a piece of glass left in the windows as big as my three fingers. 



395 

It is a soi't of cushion of air, that carries everything along with it, and 
if there is anything near where the powder is exploded that can be 
moved, it will be carried with great force ; but an explosion in an open 
room above will not carry anything. There was powder used in the 
Sub-Treasury building. There was a building all on fire, with an iron 
roof; it was a perfect oven of flame; the girders were two feet in 
diameter, of wrought iron trusses, and the pressure of the roof was crowd- 
ing the walls out, and it was evident that there must be some relief. The 
only thing that saved the Sub-Treasury was a charge of powder, the 
explosion of which doubled the roof up. Some of those large iron 
girders that -twenty men could not have carried out, as they struck the 
floor curled up, making two turns as they came down. The powder wa» 
put close under the eaves, and took the entire corner out. The roof over 
the Sub-Treasury was of iron and all girded together ; the powder was 
used to blow the wall over, so that the roof would begin to fall ; it fell 
over the corner and came down into the building ; the other portion of 
the roof stands to-day. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) Did you see the fire engines cease to play at any 
time? 

A. Yes, sir ; for two hours we were short of watei'. "We could not get 
water enough to plaj' above the second story. Our whole system of 
pipes is radically wrong. I don't know who is to blame. There was 
not sufljcient supply of water in Milk, Federal and Congress streets, and 
all that region, for two hours. We tried the engines singly, and for twc^ 
hours' time we could not get more than fifteen minutes' play before the 
water was gone. I don't know anything more about it now than I did 
that night, but such was the result. Some engines stopped to give oth- 
ers water ; if it became a matter of necessity to get a stream to any 
height, we could not get it. 

Q. 33id 3'ou see any of them stop for want of fuel? 

A. We got out of fuel very early. I don't think any of them actually 
stopped. By the way, those old reserve engines that night did just as 
much service, and I think more, as the light engines. If we had had 
another grade of heavier engines, they would have been what was needed ; 
but the reserve engines worked splendidly ; none of them fiTJled. I had 
supposed they were out of repair, and expected every minute they would 
fail us, where we were relying upon them, but they did not. Some of 
them worked three or four hours without stopping. An old rotary- en- 
gine, which would have failed if anything did, was working three hours 
continuously. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) How many are there of those reserve engines? 

A. Five or six in all, I think. But we were out of water along our 
streets, the hydrants were not large enough, and when so many engines 
came to draw from them, it exhausted the water. When they had two 
pipes, one would be cut off, and then the water would fail utterly and the 
engine stop playing. There were two hours when the fire was driving 
us five or six hundred feet an hour. K was terrible. 

Another thing I noticed which caused much trouble was this : the 
moment we took the hose up to any height, it would burst ; there is no 
hose in this city that would stand being carried to the top of a building 
one hundred feet high, with the steam engines that we have ; you may 



396 

relj" upon that. The experiment was tried, and I think it is so. I would 
have run hose to the top of the new Post-Office building, if I had not been 
perfectly satisfied that the water could not be carried there. One of the 
best engines around the new Post Office was the Watertown Arsenal 
engine ; that was worked b}^ regularly enlisted men. They did just as 
my men did. When I told them to go, they went ; when I told them to 
stay, they stayed ; they relied on somebody else to take care of the risk 
and the danger ; thej^ would do what they were ordered to do, and felt 
that their chances were better in that way than in any other. This en- 
gine followed on the line of the fire, falling back when they were com- 
pelled to do so. The men went into every building they w.erc asked to 
go into, and took their hose v^ith them, but it burst once or twice. They 
went into the Simmons's block to see if they could not do something to 
control the fire opposite, but their hose burst, so that a length had to be 
taken out, and they came out of the building just before the upper part 
of the wall fell in. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) If there had been an abundant supply of water, 
what difference would it have made, in your judgment, in fighting that 
fire? 

A If the supply of water had been ample, it would have obviated one 
great difficulty ; but whether the fire could have been controlled at that 
time, even with the water, is doubtful. The want of water demoralized 
the firemen. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) When did you first observe a want of water? 

A. I observed a want of water before twelve o'clock, and from one to 
three it was very marked, and I do not know but still later. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Did 3'ou observe it earlier in Summer street? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) You didn't answer my question whether there 
were not some causes operating which were beyond control, even if there 
had been i)lenty of water. 

A. I confess I don't see how we could have got that fire under any 
control, unless we could have placed the firem^en on the roofs, and have 
them in a shape to fight the fire from above, and do it by combination. 
Here were four blocks on fire, with the streets behind them, all burning 
— neither j'ou nor I would ask the firemen to form a line of defence in 
the middle of one burning block. You have got to do it Avith all the 
blocks and in all the streets. At one time, I seriously thought of going 
into the attics of the line of buildings, from the Revere Bank, back, and 
blou'ing the Mansards off. It seemed the best thing to do, and if we 
had had the powder, it would have been tried. We could not have been 
sure, however, that the water would not fail us, for it so happened that 
very soon after, we could not get the water into the second-story win- 
dows. If we could not get the water so that the men could reach the 
upper stories of the buildings, it would have been impossible to keep the 
fire from crossing the street. 

It is said that the fire spreads and extends by the blowing out of win- 
dows. That is an utter fallac3\ There was no communication of fire by 
any such process. It would seem, at first, that there would be that 
danger ; but the more buildings we blew up, the better they could be 
reached. 



397 

Q. Was not the fire communicated nine times out of ten from roof to 
roof? 

A. Yes, sir, and under tbe roofs. I would to-day ratlicr take my 
chances of stopping a fire after blowing off the Mansards, tlian with 
those roofs on. I think if we had blown off the entire roof of the Revere- 
Bank building, just as we were there, we could have done more in stop- 
ping the fire and holding it, than we did do. The gas did not trouble us- 
at all in any building where we blew it up in the second story. 
Blowing off the roofs would have given us a very good place to operate. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) Did I understand you to say, that it would have 
been a very good thing if there had been some means of escape from the 
roofs ? 

A. Every block in this city should have, from the second story, a fire- 
escape running to the roof, so placed as not to obstruct air or lisht. la 
such a fire as that, the only way you can get the firemen to take tbe risk 
of going on the roofs of large buildings, one hundred and fifty feet or so- 
in depth, some of them more and some less, and of varying heights, as 
they are, is by providing some means of retreat. I would have gone up 
myself with the men, if I had known that there was means of escape. 
We require communication with a base. You must not ask men to go 
where you cannot control them with an order or relieve them in an emer- 
gency. Take the Cathedral block, — when the fire was crossing Devon- 
shire street, I would not have dared to put men on theroof of that block, 
unless there were means of escape. It would have been perfectly fool- 
hardy to have done it. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Do you blame the firemen for not going 
there ? 

A. They gave us, in the order from the City Hall, the control of the 
firemen where we were, and they did not refuse in a single instance to 
obey. I did not ask them to go on any such buildings, because it would 
have cost them their lives. 1 would not put men where I would not put 
myself, and I would not go myself unless I had some place where I 
could work and fight the fire, as we did at the new Post Office, 
where we had a means of escape. There should be an upper iron 
ladder so placed that the ordinary ladders can reach it. The pro- 
prietors of the " London Times " sent me their articles on 1 he fire 
in the flour mills there, and I noticed that that fire Lfegan the same 
time as ours, and burned throe days constantly with the whole Fire 
Department at work. The Fire Department of London consists of 
three hundred and eighty men, and no more. There are about 
one hundred men who go with the fire-escape in detail ; there are fifty 
divisions in London having fire-escapes, with a detail of two men to 
each of those divisions. They are so organized that every hour in the 
twenty-four there is a man ready in each of the fifty divisions to take 
charge of the fire-escapes ; that is, to save lives. They have no such 
means as we have of quickly reaching fires ; they do not need them ; 
their buildings are so constructed that they burn slowly ; and they do not 
lack the means of escape from the roofs and upper stories. Tiie whole 
vitality of our Fire Department consists in the rapidity with which we 
can reach a fire and control it, at the start ; if we do not do that, it is 
perfectly clear that we have no adequate means of stopping it subse- 



398 

<5uent]y. The city of New York is just as much at the mercy of a fire 
that gets beyond control as we were. 

Q. (By Mr. Codb.) You said that towards morning you noticed that 
the men seemed to work as if tliey laclvcd confidence — did they work 
■with alacrity when you got there? 

A. After they got to the fire in Summer street, the firemen went to 
work gallantly. The engines came in slowly ; it is very seldom that we 
€ver get so late a delivery of engines at a fire. The hook-and-ladder 
•companies were there in advance, and they were ready for the engines 
■when they came. The engines got up their fires slowly. At a later 
stage of the fire, the xncn took dry-goods boxes and broke them up, and 
I sent down to tlie wharf for Canncl coal, and dumped loads down in the 
streets. I sent one of the mail wagons, as soon as it got there, for fuel, 
but we could not keep wagons at work to supply the engines with fuel of 
any kind, regularly, }]o matter what suppl}'^ wo had, for we had to fall 
back to save ourselves in lime from the fire. In State street and Liberty 
square, we could have dumped down coal, but in a narrow street like 
Devonshire street, it would have been an obstruction ; it would have 
been in the way; we Avauled to go in and out. Drj'-goods boxes and 
■everything that could be burned were taken out and used for fuel. At one 
time, I counted around me some thirty-two steam fire engines, actually 
running. ISo previous forethought could have supplied so many with 
coal or fuel. They would come up and take the first available hydrant; 
nobody could know when they would get there and have the coal on the 
spot. We were short of fuel, but it must be borne in mind, that instead 
■of twelve or fifteen engines, comprising our department, we had thrown 
wpon us seventy engines, distributed all over the territory, for which a 
supply must be improvised in some way. 

Q. (By Mr. PiiiLr.niCK.) Was there any lack of fuel in firing up? 

A. I don't know about that. They did not get their engines started 
as they ought to have been. I don't know when the first one was 
started. I taw five or six fire up myself that night. 

Q. They worked slowly ? 

A. Thry started slowly ; som-e of them, I think, did not have their 
fires up when they got upon the ground. I think the first engine coming 
from tills direction did not get its fire up until the second engine got 
there. 

Q. (By Mr. Codb.) Did I understand yon to say that those men 
•worked with alacrity early in the night? 

A. They did. I think the disheartening time to the firemen, and when 
things looked the bluest (and from that time for two hours there was not 
much faith in anything), was after the fire had come through and burned 
the Cathedral block, caught on the Ilcvere-Bank building, and was run- 
ning up Franklin street, and crossing to the other side. I think I never 
saw men who were evidently more discouraged than the firemen at that 
time, and it was a dishear;ening task. 

Q. (By Mr. Fiutii.) Did you see any giving away of property? 

A. Oil, yes, sir, a great deal of it. 

Q. What was the cIToct of that, so far as it came under your e3'e? 

A. It had very Utile efiect where I was, on Federal and Devonshire 
streets. I thought the efiect was good. It took the rabble out of the 



399 

way. It did not demoralize anybody wlio would have done us any good 
but got a good many out of the way. If a man stole five dollars' worth 
and ran off, it was a perfect godsend in our direction. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) You did not see the firemen demoralized 
by it? 

A. I don't think there was anything of the kind in our region. There 
were human supplies wanting ; the}'' wanted something to eat and 
drink. There were firemen who worked all night without a mouthful 
to eat or drink. I don't believe Capt. Green or his men had any- 
thing to eat or drink that night, until they almost fainted away. Tbe 
same was true of whole fire companies. For myself, I will sa}', that I 
was finally so exhausted that I could hardly stand up when it came 
twelve o'clock the next day. I stayed by until after twelve o'clock 
the next day, without eating, drinking or resting, of course, not aware 
of the strain that was on me. The firemen could not work under 
such circumstances. If it had been a cold night, I do not know what 
we should have done. The Watertown company worked up to the last mo- 
ment, without leaving their position ; every man known to be there. 

Q. What was the result? 

A. At twelve o'clock the next day those men were drenched through, 
and a team was sent to Watertown to bring them some dry clothing. 
They had had nothing to cat, and were not supplied until Sunday after- 
noon. They came away without any money ; it was Sunday morning ; 
the restaurants were not open ; it was the worst possible time for the 
men to gefe anything. Three hours of the work of a fireman, getting 
hose into buildings and tending the pipe, will exhaust the strongest man. 
One of those streams as now thrown by a steam engine, will knock three 
men down. It took five of us to move the hose out of the way of an 
explosion, to prevent being thrown down in the street. A man cannot 
work on that strain, wet through as those men were, and not have it tell 
on him. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) What in your judgment, in view of your experi- 
ence that night, was the effect of the use of gunpowder? 

A. The file would have gone into State street, and burned the Sub- 
Treasury, as certainly as I sit here, even with the appliances we had, 
if it had not been for the powder ; nothing in the world saved us but 
that. Take such a street as Lindall street, with buildings five stories 
high, and the street only thirty feet wide. The fire burned across two 
streets and came into the upper windows into the third story of our Post 
Oflice. The only way in the world to stop it was to level those buildings. 
I do not make the least question that every building that was blown up 
would have been destroyed by the fire if gunpowder had not been used, 
with the exception of the building at the corner of Milk and Washington 
streets, and an old wooden building on Broad street. Those buildings 
might not otherwise have been destroyed, but there was hardly anything 
else that would not have been destroyed, and the powder saved millions 
of property. That is my best judgment, after carefully looking it over. 

Q. Did you see any powder put into buildings that did not explode? 

A. Yes, sir, I did, and we were obliged to keep out of those build- 
ings. In regard to that, I will say, that there was not a place where 
powder was used where it extended the fire a single foot however. 



' 400 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) "Was there any loose powder put into the Webster- 
Bank building, at the corner of Congress street? 

A. No, I think not. We had made a regular set-to with the fire, when we 
had the trouble with Capt. Woolley. The buildings were all blown out 
on those corners, and I told them we would blow up every building on 
Kilby street, from foundation to roof, to keep the fire from State street. 
In fact, if it had caught there or got into the "Traveller" building, I 
don't see where we could have stopped it. There was the Sub-Treasury, 
opposite were the Safety-Deposit Vaults, and many of the principal 
banks. Of course, there is not a place in Boston, or in the world, that 
I know of, that it would be a greater peril to have a fire reach, or a 
greater disgrace. I had no doubt that we could make a clean sweep of 
Kilby street, but at the same time, I said to the men, " We won't use 
this powder ; we have got force enough here ; we have blown out the 
corners, and I think we can control it, and use our judgment in regard 
to blowing up any buildings here." Just then Capt. Woolley came up, 
and went in back of the Hide and Leather Bank building, the high free- 
stone building on Kilby street. It is useless to blow up such a building 
as that ; you must blow up the surroundings and let that stand as a bul- 
wark in itself. I asked them to be ready to blow up the other side, out 
to State-street corner. We had put our powder into the buildings be- 
yond, and all the men understood it. Capt.- Woolley came up and 
said it must be taken out. I heard what was said, and went down to tho 
men with the hose and told them that the use of the powder was in our 
control ; to pay no attention to him, but stay where they were. Very soon, 
I heard a loud voice sa3'ing that the firemen would fall back unless that 
powder was taken out, and as I looked back, I saw Qen. Benham and 
ex-Alderman Carpenter and Alderman Woolley at the building, having 
a controversy. Alderman Carpenter appealed to me. I said we had 
put the powder in the buildings ; that I would stay with the hosemen 
down in front; that no powder should be fired until we were ready for 
it; but that we must make our stand there. The men with the hose, 
hearing the controversy, fell back, I should think, a hundred and fifty 
feet. I took hold of one of the pipes myself, and helped drag it down 
street, and went fifteen or twenty feet nearer tJie fire than we were be- 
fore, where it was almost impossible to stand. The men stayed there and 
others came up with their hose, as they always will; thoj^ are ashamed 
to do a cowardly thing before others, and we made a stand near the Re- 
vere Copper Company's building, and held it. I understood that some- 
body had started for the Ciiy Hall, and very soon afterwards, perhaps 
ten minutes, I was told that all authority to blow up buildings had 
ceased, and all power was in the hands of Capt. Damrell and his sub- 
ordinates. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) How did that word come to you? 

A. A person from the City Hall brought it directly to me. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) Did you want to blow up the buildings 
there ? 

A. Not at that time. We should have stopped there, if we stayed 
the fire where wc were at work ; but if we could not hold it at that 
point, there was no other place where wc could stop it on Kilby street. 
We did hold it there. The powder was taken out of Capt. WooUey's 



401 

building ; but it was not taken out of the Post-OfRce building, or any 
other, until the next morning. 

Q. When you speak of the Post-Office building as one of the build- 
ings from which the powder was not removed, you mean the building 
fronting on Kilby street used as part of the Post Office? 

A. Yes, sir. As to the second fire, Sunday night, I was not at all 
surprised at what occurred in Shreve, Stanwood <fe Go's store. The 
same thing might have happened on the top of Beacon Hill, or in the 
State House, as well as where it did happen. The gas of this city is a 
more serious danger to life and property than any convenient thing we 
have. In my judgment, we could have stayed the fire long before we 
did but for the gas. It is perfectly evident that we should have legisla- 
tion immediately, compelling every gas company in this Commonwealth 
to put in cut-offs to the mains in the street, and to the service-pipes in 
every building, so that the gas can be controlled. It is not enough to 
put the control on the inside ; you cannot get into the basements and 
under the sidewalks, where the cut-offs are. If it is found that these 
cut-offs wear out once in three years, renew them once in three years. 
It is nothing but a plug of iron, that can be easily changed ; it is not 
like a water-pipe, which you have to protect from frost ; it can certainly 
be reasonably controlled. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) Would it not often get so hot when a build- 
ing was on fire, that when you wanted to shut it off, you could not get 
at it? 

A. No ; when a building caught fire, it should be shut off instantly. 
You should not allow a building to burn, with the gas pipes reaching 
through it — to the attic. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) Supposing that one of those tall buildings was 
on fire in the upper stories, the parties in the lower stories might want 
to use the gas in order to save their books and goods ? 

A. I would go in and shut it all off, nevertheless. You must have 
the control of the gas ; it will not do to run the risk of having the fire 
communicated to the surrounding buildings, without some means of cut- 
ting it off. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) With the rapidity with which the fire 
spread through Federal, High, Purchase and Pearl streets that night, 
could any gang of men have accomplished that thing? 

A. Yes, sir. If I could have got hold of the men, we could have dug up 
the mains in every one of those streets, and shut off all the gas. The fire 
did not burn rapidly ; it caught along from building to building ; but the 
fire did not go as rapidly as fires do when driven over a city by a gale. 
It was from seven o'clock on Saturday night until one o'clock, Sunday 
afternoon, in covering this territory, beginning where it did. In that 
time, with an average gang of men, you could have dug up all the pipes, 
if you had known where they were, and plugged up the pipes. I in- 
tended to try it, whether it could have been done or not ; and I think I 
could have accomplished it, if I could have found the men who knew 
where the pipes were. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) You say .you were not surprised at what took 
place on Sunday night. Did you anticipate that explosion of gas? 

A. I did. It was a constant element of danger. I was not surprised 
26 



402 

at tliG spread of the fire in spite of the firemen. We could have done 
better with gunpowder, if it had not been for the gas. The gas troubled 
us raore than the lack of water. 

Q. {By Mr. Firth.) Did you observe any trouble from the wind? 

A. Our streets are narrow, and the buildings high ; and in almost 
every street it was like the tremendous draught of air that you observe 
at a brick-kiln, or at the foot of any high chimney. I had to hold my 
hat on, and my coat would be drawn towards the fire as I turned to go 
back ; and in every street it swept the dirt and dust into this immense 
current that was rising so rapidly. The rarefied air went so rapidly up, 
that the outside air came in with a rush, and the draft along near the 
ground was tremendous, but the wind after the first hour caused no 
trouble. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) Do j^ou think the Fire Department, as a whole, 
did all they could do under the circumstances, from the time you were 
there ? 

A. That I must answer in this way : The Fire Department of this city, 
in its engines, is entirely inadequate to our wants. We ought to have 
to-day two steam fire engines, of not less than ten tons, requiring from 
four to six horses, capable of throwing a three or four-inch stream, 
through a wire-bound hose, two hundred feet in height. The Fire De- 
partment of tliis city to-day is just as incompetent to cope with the fires 
we are liable to have, as it was fifteen years ago, when we outgrew the 
hand engines. 

Q. In what respects? 

A. The buildings are so high, that unless we have additional power to 
throw our streams, and additional strength to our hose, we can do noth- 
ing on such high, deep buildings. These smaller engines will reach a 
fire quickly, they are managed easily, and moved rnpidl3^, but they do 
not meet tlie emergency of a great conflagration, such as a city like this 
is liable to have. We have just as much outgrown our steam fire en- 
gines as we had outgrown the hand engines. 

Q. What hose would you recommend ? 

A. I am not an expert. I know the hose we now use is inadequate. 

Q. Did 3'ou notice whether it was the rubber or leather hose that burst? 

A. Some of the leather hose was old. I found they had coupled new 
and old together. There was hardly a line of hose by morning that 
wasn't all mixed up. I think many of the couplings did not fit. I no- 
ticed that the out-of-town engines were supplying the water when I got 
back on State street. We had no trouble about water at that time. 
More engines were massed in State street, filling the entire street, before 
I got my stuff finally out of the Post Office. While all this was going 
on, I had the office running, and was getting out my material. 

Q. Did you see much of the Chief? 

A. I saw him at the Hall. I think we went out together about the last 
ones that went out. I heard from him once al)ont daybreak, up in 
Milk street. AVhen I saw him next was when our own building, the 
Merchants' Exchange, was on fire. He came up to the Congress-street 
entrance. You understand that all the doors of our building 1 kept bar- 
ricaded that night. No one was permitted to come in who Avas not recog- 
nized, and I continued the same strictness after the building was on 
fire and while it wag burning, on account of the exposure of the govern- 



403 

ment property in the Sub-Treasury. Had the watcliinan of the Sub- 
Treasury and our own watchman there. Mr. Damrell came lo t lie Con'iress- 
street entrance ; the door was fastened with a Post-Oflice lock, and could 
not be opened. I brolve open a window, roachetl through arid i)ut my 
arms under his, and lilted him in. Then I went with him throuij^h the 
building and showed him the condition of things there, and he helped us; 
in our building for the next three-quarters of an hour. That is my only 
xecollection of seeing him after meeting him at the City Hall. 

Q. Did he appear to be self-possessed when you saw him? 

A. I don't know Capt. Damrell sufficiently well to judge. He was 
earnest. A man judges another by his own feelings. I was impressed 
'with the tremendous danger with which we were threatened, and he 
seemed to be, too. He took hold efficiently to do what was to be done. 
He certainly did his duty there. My impression at the City Hall was 
this, — that he felt that the appliances we had could not control the Man- 
sard roofs, tJiat powder was a hopeless resort, and that it was a terrible 
alternative. I know I went out of the City Hall feeling that I had not 
a single man going with me, or approving what we were then undertak- 
ing ; that I was really running counter to his judgment, and that is a 
great oppression to a man situated as I then was, but since the men who 
went out with me have said it met their entire approval, and hundreds 
have told me the roar of the explosions was the first sign of hope, and 
«ent a thrill of joy through the whole city. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) You have told us that the means of battling 
with the fire were utterly insufficient — how did the firemen use the poor 
means which they had ? 

A. They certainly did not go back from a building until they were 
compelled to, anywhere ; they stayed until the last moment, and when- 
•ever they were asked to make an extraordinary effort at a given point, 
they did it in every instance. I was in every street leading to the old 
Post Office and the new one, almost as fast as a man could go, back and 
forth, and I saw nothing in our own firemen which was discreditable. 
My attention was called to two firemen from out of town who were drunk, 
and I started to arrest one of them and put him in the lock-up ; but the 
Captain told me that he was not a regular fireman, but came in with the 
Company as a volunteer. I know the Boston firemen by their badges, 
and I do not think I saw a man where I should criticise what he was do- 
ing or the way lie was doing it. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Have 3'ou looked into the law in regard to 
the use of powder? 

A. No, sir. I was very careful not to. I was afraid I might know 
something about it. That opens this question. I made up my mind 
that what little authority 1 could get, whether it was good enough to 
stand me in hand or not, I would use. On such an occasion as that, I 
think no man should stop to study the law. It was evidently a necessity 
which made a law for itself. I would have blown up those buildings 
anyway. I had come to that conclusion. I wanted something to stand 
behind me ; I wanted some organization that would set men to work 
with co-operation, and I wanted some apparent authority for bringing 
the powder in here ; but it was absolutely necessary to do it, to save 
ourselves that night. I felt so then, and I have not changed my mind. 



404 

I am perfectly certain I would not have let the Post Office and Snb- 
Treasury burn without blowing up the buildings on Lindall and Kilby 
streets. I should have done it, as the saying is, " On my own hook." 

I think the Mayor's statement that he had not the legal authority to> 
blow up buildings, but that it resided in the Chief Engineer and Board of 
Engineers, was probably correct, but precisely how it resides in them, I 
don't know. Such an emergency is just as likely to occur again as it 
was before this fire, and it should be determined where this power does 
reside, and in what way it can be exercised. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) Don't you think that needs legislation as much 
as anything? 

A. We must have the means of doing whatever is necessary to stop 
the spread of such a conflagration in a crowded city. For instance, 
suppose the fire in the building at the foot of Cornhill (it so happened 
that I got there before the alarm was given) had crossed IJrattle street in 
one direction and Washington street in the other, it might have required 
the blowing up of Cornhill in less than an hour. If it becomes necessary 
again, powder will be used ; if there is no law for it,. there should be. 

I have understood that other parties had authority given them to blow 
up buildings. When our authority was given, I requested Mr. Bradley, 
who is connected with the " Herald," to take down the names, which he 
did, to make a record of where they were to be sent, and the Mayor and 
Chief Engineer were to approve it. They were to do nothing except in 
their own localities ; they had no power outside. Mr. Allen, President 
of the Cochituate Water Board, was to go down to Broad street, and 
blow up buildings to prevent the fii-e from going round Broad street, and 
getting into the Fort-Hill District. I understood and felt that night, 
that if he had gone to Bedford street, and commenced blowing up build- 
ings, he would have interfered with the plans of Capt. Dararell to such 
an extent that he would have been liable personall}'- for it. I had no 
idea that this thing was to be done in any loose, chance way. I felt 
that every man should have his place and go there ; that if there was 
any additional authority needed, he should get it fi'om Capt. Damrell. 

It was distinctly stated, that nothing should be done above or west of 
Washington street, and if the fire finally crossed that street, the coarse 
to be pursued should be considered at City Hall. If it had crossed that 
street, what we should have done I don't know ; it is terrible to contem- 
plate ; but nothing was to be considered as trusted to any man in advance. 
Down this way it was dilferent. 1 had my theoretical idea that I would 
keep the fire from State street, and the valuable property around there. 
I directed that four or five buildings should not be blown up. The 
Old South Church was one, and the building below the Old South Church 
on Milk street. The question came up in .regard to the " Traveller " build- 
ing. I said no, the emergency hadn't come; we would not do that. The 
fire was coming through, if it came through at all, in the building where 
the Sub-Treasury was. 

There is one other thing which it seems to me we must always have in 
view, and that is, the construction of buildings. It was ver}' obvious, 
during that fire, that iron beams were less safe than wooden ones. As 
soon as they were heated to a red heat, they curled up and came out, 
story after story, while the wooden beams would stand until they burned 



405 

off. If there is any process by which wooden beams can be made less 
■combustible, I am satisfied that a hard-pine beam, or an oak beam is 
safer for such buildings than iron. As the buildings with these iron 
beams fell in, the pressure crowded the walls out, and in almost every 
instance, let the next story down, and when rooms, filled with merchan- 
dise, as many were, burned, the fire heated the iron beams red-hot. It 
was like putting them over a blast furnace. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) Did you notice that when the iron posts sustain- 
ing those massive fronts got heated, they would come down, and the 
whole front fall with them? Do you think that is the proper way to con- 
struct a building? 

A. That did not happen in any case until the building was burned 
clear down below. Very likely a good many people were a little disap- 
pointed, in looking over the ruins the next day, to find that so few of the 
walls of those immense warehouses, the most solid of any in the city, 
were left standing. The fact is, that the effect of the explosions was to 
take them down. We cleared the ground behind us all the way through ; 
Dobody had any occasion to use powder the next day to blow down 
walls along the line on which we operated. 

Q. (By Mr. FiRTn.) About how many effective explosions should 
you think there were? 

A. We must have had not less than twenty, and my opinion is, over 
thirty, in our region. Not less than seventeen or twenty that were 
tolerably effective. But the difficulty was, we did not use powder enough. 
We ought to have used a hundred and fifty or two hundred pounds more 
than we did. If we had put in two hundred pounds more at the corner 
of the street below the uew Post-Office building, the fire would never 
have crossed into Simmons's block. If we had spent just that much 
moi'e on powder in that building, we should have saved half a million 
dollars on the other side of the street. The front went down flat, but 
the heat was intense ; it lay shingling back, piled up ; the rear part of it 
was up to its full height, and the front down almost to the sidewalk, 
and presented a great surface of flame. What we ought to have done 
was to let that building down into the cellar; and it would have gone 
into the cellar, if we had put in two hundred pounds more. 

As to another means of protection of large buildings from fire, we 
ought to have iron pipes in these large buildings, connected with the 
hydrants on the streets, so that the h3-drant can be put on it, or an en- 
gine attached to it, and water thrown on that roof, or into the building. 
A few hundred dollars spent in each warehouse would furnish means 
of carrying wafer over the building, and to use upon each roof upon the 
adjoining buildings, and then we should have no trouble from bursting 
hose. We have, as I said before, outgrown our fire apparatus ; we have 
not outgrown the men. Those men will be equal to any firemen in the 
world, if you will give them the appliances ; give them the hose and 
engines, and fire-escapes thc\'^ ought to have. 

Mr. MuUett, the supervising architect, when we commenced preparing 
plans for the new Post OflSce, was very decided that it should be a thor- 
oughly fire-proof building. His opinion was not coincided with by any 
man that I know of, who had anything oflicially to do with the matter in 
Boston, except myself. So far from it, Mr. Alphcus Hardy, who jvas a 



406 

member of the comniission for the purchase of the site, desired to put up a 
"building similar to Macullar, Williams & Parker's building. He insisted 
upon it so strenuously that he made a proposition to the Treasury Dcpart- 
meut, offering to put up a building in that style, and fixing the price ; and 
that single thing gave Mr. Mullclt and myself more trouble than any other 
one matter ; for ho represented a large estate ; he said that a building of 
that clkaracter was perfectly safe ; that he had money enough to build 
with ; and 3'et was erecting such buildings under the direction of archi- 
tects who could not be mistaken. Finally, when a committee of inves- 
tigation was appointed, Hon. Ginery Twitchell telegraphed me, and I 
went to Washington, and the whole question came up in regard to the 
construction of our City Hall, to which reference was made, and whether 
we should have a fire-proof building, or such a building as Mr. Hardy 
proposed to build for eight hundred thousand dollars, and which he had 
urged the Secretary to accept. Now, had we built such a building, we 
should undoubtedly have occupied it, and we should have lost everything 
in the Treasury and Post Office. 

Instead of stopping the fire, it would have carried it through to State 
street. In other words, you cannot impress too strongly upon people in cit- 
ies of the size of Boston, the absolute value, in dollars and cents, of fire- 
proof buildings, thoroughly reliable. That building was reliable; the 
outside walls might crumble, but if it had contained a hundred millions 
of property, every farthing would have been saved. I speak of that an 
showing what this experience demonstrates in regard to the value of 
fire-proof buildings. Mr. Hardy represents a class of men who, by this 
fire, are taught that there is still another thing to be learned in this 
great city. We have got to go one step bej^ond Macullar, Williams & 
Parker's. Every man who has a Mansard roof on his warehouse should 
be compelled to line it up and fill it in solid. I should think every man 
would do that at once. 

Q. (By Mr. Piiilbrick.) Do you think we have the frames to bear it? 

A. I am afraid not. In that case there is no other way but to take 
them off. Mr. Mullett is entitled to all praise. A young man, he car- 
ried his plan through on his own judgment, and I felt on the ni2;ht of the 
fire, when I drew that line at Cit}' Hall, and said, " There is the line on 
which we will fight this fire," that our Post-Otfice building was worth all 
it had cost, by this confidence it gave us ; that, possessing such a 
structure, we could save State street ; and so it proved. It saved ten 
times what it cost, yet it was against the judgment of Boston, and of 
Boston architects, that the building was constructed in that manner. 
Those consulted, disapproved the plan. 

Q. (By Mr. Firtii.") Did they disapprove of the fire-proof character 
of it? 

A. They said that it was unnecessary ; that the expenditure on such a 
building to render it fire-proof to the extent proposed, was unnecessary ; 
that there was no exposure that warranted such an expenditure. 

Q. Would it have been fire-proof, if finished? 

A. Absolutely ; just as much as it is now, and a little more so. We 
have carried up a liame-work of wood, and have platforms Ibr the steam 
engine that is used for hoisting, etc. All the fear I had was that the 
fire might reach this wood-work and heat the iron beams, and press the 



407 

walls out. I had that in my mind ; but if we could keep the fire out of 
the inside, I felt we were perfectly safe ; and we did. In other words, 
the exposure when the building is finished, will not be one-half what it 
was that night, while the fire was burning, 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Is there anything further you desire to say? 

A. Speaking of what is needed in Boston as a further protection 
against fire, the danger from the height of buildings is also guarded 
against by the width of streets. It seems to me we should have, here in 
Boston, with the opening and opportunity that the burnt district gives 
us, a new and distinct plan for protection against fires made to conform 
to the wants of the city for business purposes. We need it for health, 
we need it for convenience in our business. The plan that has been so 
far adopted in reference to streets by tiie Street Commissioners, extend- 
ing Washington street and Devonshire street in a straight line to Hay- 
market square, would seem to make it desirable to extend in the same 
line through Federal street to the foot of Summer street, and make the 
street at least eighty feet wide, as a sort of fire barrier. This street 
would run from the Boston, Hartford & Erie depot, through bv the new 
Post Ofl5ce building, across State street, through Haymarket square to 
Charlestown bridge, in an air line, making a continuous street, and the 
larger portion of it can be made of sufficient width to be a protection 
against fire, and a reliable one. If we had had such a street as wide as 
the area in the central part of Franklin street was, there would have been 
no possibility of the fire crossing from one side to the other. Not only 
would it be a direct pi'otection against an extension of fire, but you 
would have a street where y^u would be safe in locating your steam 
fire engines, making a permanent position for fighting a fire. It would 
be invaluable in this respect. Then coming from the new Post Office 
(which can be relied upon as an absolutely fire-proof building, as much 
so as the Custom House), in the direction of the City Hall through 
School street, take out the buildings in Water street, between the new 
Post Office and Washington street, which would give us an eighty or 
ninety feet width there. Then by simply cutting off the old buildings, 
as far up as City Hall, we strike the church above, which can be turned 
around and placed in the burying-ground, which belongs to the city, and 
thus, at a very small expense, make an open avenue which becomes a 
cross barrier in a westerlj^ direction, the only place where we can get it. 

There is not in the whole line of streets in Boston, anj' place except 
Beacon street, which will justify any such amount of widening from east 
to west as is required for a fire barrier, except School street. The City 
Hall, being located where it is, with sufficient room in front to be ap- 
propriated to sidewalks, a street and area can be opened there at a 
very reasonable expense. Tiie question of expense is alwaj-s an 
important item, and the diflference between widening fift)', sixty, or 
eighty feet, would be saved actually in the insurance-money, the actual 
risk of the insurance. I do not mean by this the mere premiums charged 
for insuring ; I mean there will be enough saved in the actual fire risk 
of the city in a few years to pay the entire additional expense. It seems 
to me that, as we are now situated, we should at once fix upon these two 
short lines from the new Post Office to the Boston, Hartford & p:rie de- 
pot, and the line in this direction from the new Post Office through 



408 



School and Beacon streets to the Common. If necessary, instead of 
assessing all the betterments for such improvement upon the mere local- 
ity, let the whole city pay for it. This will divide the city up in such a 
wa}', that hereafter it would be almost an absolute protection from fire 
beyond the local district. 

No one who looks at the city can fail to see that there is no reason 
why, if a fire should break out on the west side of Washington street, 
say in the Music Hall, or in the rear of the Adams House, or in the rear 
of the Parker House, it should not sweep from Washington street to the 
Common, and spread north. I believe that the opportunities for the 
spread of such a fire are greater in that region than in the section where 
our great fire took place. 

Then looking at it in another view : Take the neighborhood of Dock 
square. We are in the same difficulty there, and the exposure is the 
same. Moreover, making one part of the city safe as against another is 
a great protection to personal property, for, if it cannot be moved to a 
place of comparative safety, without hauling long distances, then it is 
substantially lost the moment a large conflagration occurs. We can save 
in the actual increase in the value of property, personal and perishable, 
as well as in the improvements upon real estate, in a short time, by taking 
advantage of the condition in which we are now to open these wide ave- 
nues, more than they will cost. I wanted to make a special point of 
that, because it is rather my weakness to look in that way. 

I would say another thing, that there are advantages to be derived 
from these wide avenues in other respects. For instance, in winter, our 
narrow streets accumulate large amounts pf snow when there is a heavy 
snow-fall, and we have to cart it off on to the Common or some other 
place, and a fire is entirely unapproachable by the engines. How much 
better it would be to have these avenues, that would be of sufficient 
width to allow of fire-engines being located there, and worked advan- 
tageously and without obstruction, than to have that portion of the city 
built up with streets forty, fifty, or sixty feet wide. Give us something 
wide enough so that a body of snow shall be no obstruction to business, 
or to the engines in case of fire, or other emergen^}', and also furnish, at 
other seasons of the year, the means of doing the business of the 
city. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) Have you mentioned this plan to the Street Com- 
missioners? 

A. Yes, sir. I have urged it there, and I am urging it everywhere. 



ADJT. GEN. JOHN A. CUNNINGHAM, sivorn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) At what time were you called upon to order out 
the military on the night of November ninth, or morning of the tenth? 

A. At two o'clock precisely. The clock was striking when the Alder- 
man was speaking to me at my house. 

Q. What Alderman called? 

A. Alderman Cutter. 

Q. Where is your house ? 

A. 3G Lynde street. 



409 

Q. What did you do to get the military out? 

A. As soon as I presented myself to the Mayor, he said he wanted 
troops. My reply was, it was for him to order, and for the State to obey. 
He desired that I should order such troops as I pleased, — he knew 
nothing about the organization of the troops in Boston. I asked him if 
he thought a regiment of four hundred or five hundred men would be sufQ- 
cieut. He thought so for that time, and I ordered out the First Reg- 
iment. 

Q. How did you give notice ? 

A. I went myself to East Boston to the commanding officer. Col. 
Proctor, I did not find him in, and left an order with his wife for the 
Colonel to report with his command, as soon as possible, to His Honor 
the Mayor. Not feeling quite satisfied with that, and feeling that Col. 
Proctor might not return to his home, in the morning I went myself to 
South Boston and ordered out Col. Finan with his regiment. 

Q. The ninth? 

A. The ninth. 

Q. What followed in the way of getting them out? 

A. I had nothing to do with it. Other troops were ordered out dur- 
ing the day. 

Q. What other troops ? 

A. The First Battalion of Cavalry, the First Battalion of Artillery, 
the First Battalion of Infantry, and the Second Battalion of Infantry. 

Q. Did you have occasion to observe how the men behaved, — those 
that were on duty? 

A. I thought very finely. I made grand rounds myself through the 
night. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) How much force was there out in all ? 

A. On Wednesday there were twenty-one hundred men on duty. 

Q. How many had you out on Saturday in answer to your call? How 
full}'' represented were the regiments ? 

A. At four o'clock, Sunday afternoon, we must have had twelve hundred 
men. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Do you know what company came first, and 
at what time they came ? 

A. Major Gaul reported first with one company. Next came Capt. 
CoUigan of the 9th Regiment. 

Q. When did Major Gaul come? 

A. He reported to me at City Hall at half-past five that he had them 
in his armory ready for service. 

Q. When did Capt. Colligan come? 

A. Half-past seven. 

Q. Have you thought of the question, whether it would be well to have 
some signal for calling out the military? 

A. I have thought it was very desirable, although I must say I think 
our troops responded very promptly. 

Q. Can you suggest any signal ? 

A. Only some signal from the fire-alarm, so that when the men con- 
nected with the military sliould hear that signal they should assemble at 
their armories and be ready for orders. 



410 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) Should you think it worth while to have 
them assemble at every fire-alarm? 

A. No, sir, only that on an alarm signal that had so many strokes the 
military should assemble. 

Q. A preconcerted signal for the purpose? 

A. Yes, sir ; like the signal for dismissing the schools, for instance. 

Q. (By Mr. FiiiTU.) Unlike anything that is now used? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. What would 3'ou say of having a militar}'- organization drilled for 
the purpose of sapping and mining ; that is, using powder when 
necessary ? 

A. 1 can't say. I cannot give any opinion upon that. 

Q. (By Mr. PniLBracK.) If it is ever to be used, don't you think it 
ought to be done by expert hands ? 

A. Yes,5ir. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) Can you get them except by having persons 
trained to it? 

A. I should think not. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) Are you in doubt as to whether it ought 
ever to be used? 

A. I can't give any opinion about it ; I know so little about fires or 
stopping fires. 



JOHN S. JACOBS, sworn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) You are an Engineer? 

A. Assistant Engineer. 

Q. Of the Boston Fire Department? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. How soon did you go to the fiTe? 

A. As soon as the bell told me where it was. 

Q. The first alarm ? 

A. Yes, sir, the first alarm, although I am not called to the first as a 
fireman. 

Q. About how long did it take you to get there? 

A. Five or six minutes, probably ; not far from six minutes. 

Q. What was the condition of things when you got there? 

A. The upper part of the building was well on tire. That is, I could 
see it from the street. 

Q. Any fire apparatus there when you arrived? 

A. Yes, sir, there were two lines of hose in the street 

Q. What did you do? 

A. I went into the building that was on fire and took a line of hose in 
with me. 

Q. How far up did j-ou carry it? 

A. I carried it on to the second floor ; that is, so as to play into the 
second floor. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) Which side did you go in? 

A. Summer street. 

Q. (By Mr. Kussell.) How long did you stay there? 



411 

A. Time is a peculiar thing at a fire. I suppose I might have stayed 
there five to eight minutes. 

Q. Then were 3'ou driven out? 

A. Well, I was up the stairs with a hose, and there was an order came 
from outside for the hose to be taken out of the building. I said, " Who 
ordered the hose out?" and the reply was, " An Engineer." The hose 
was taken out, and when I got down to the front door I saw how bad the 
state of the building at that time was. In fact, I did not hardly dare to 
go out of the building, but hesitated whether to go out of the door or 
not, but I said to myself, " If I don't get out here, I can't get out any- 
where," and I took m}' life in my hand and went out. 

Q. Was the stone falling then ? 

A. Yes, sir, from the coving. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) What did you do next? 

A. I opened the first door below ; the adjoining building, on Summer 
street, and ordered a line of hose into it ; that is, it was opened by my 
orders. Then I received orders from the Chief to go to the building 
opposite, — on the opposite side of Summer street. I took one line of 
hose into that building, and ordered one into the adjoining building. 
The windows were then taking fire, and the coving or the wood work 
round the top of the building, and I sent for extinguishers and used the 
hose to the best advantage. f 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) How far up did you go in that building? 

A. Out through on to the roof. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) With hose? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) Was that the building on the corner of Otis 
street ? 

A. No, sir, the adjoining, — that would be the second building. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Where did you throw the water? 

A. Inside and out, on the roof, and on the inside of the building and 
round the front, round where the Lutheran windows go. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) Could you cover the corner building from 
where the hose was ? 

A. Not after the fire burst up there ; the heat was so great. 

Q. After the fire burst through the first building, you mean? 

A. The one on the corner of Otis and Summer. The stream would 
not go a great ways. It didn't seem to penetrate very powerfull}'. 

Q. Had the fire got through the roof when j-ou got the hose up there? 

A. No, sir, not when I first came up ; there was not a great deal of 
fire coming out of that roof on the corner of Otis and Summer. 

Q. What prevented you from quenching that ? 

A. I was in one building that was on fire and the fire was in the 
adjoining building. , 

Q. Wasn't it all on the roof? 

A. No, sir, not all of it. 

Q. Was there fire inside also? 

A. Yes, sir ; the most of the fire on the north side at that time was 
on the corner of Otis and Summer streets. I was in the adjoining 
building, saving that, and doing what I could to save the other build- 
ing — the corner one. 



412 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) "Was anything done to the corner building, 
except what you did ? 

A. I could not see, there was so much fire and smoke ; and that 
fronted on another street. I stayed on that roof until the flames made a 
complete arch over me. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) Did you throw water on the coimer building? 

A. Yes, sir, and played on to the Avindows in the rear? 

Q. If you had been there ten or fifteen minutes earlier with your hose 
could you not have saved that corner in your judgment? 

A. No, I don't think I could. 

Q. Was it too hot for one stream? 

A. Yes, sir ; I had two streams up there. 

Q. Was it too hot for them ? 

A. Yes, sir ; I had one on the building I went up through, and one in 
the third building, but both came on to the second building. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) What I want to get at is, if your hose had 
been up there before the fire began to burn this building on the corner, 
whether you could have stayed there ; whether the fire on the opposite 
side of the street would have driven j^ou away ? 

A. The fire on the opposite side did not drive me off; it was the fire 
in the adjoining building on the corner of Otis. 

Q. If you had got there before the fire had such a start on the corner 
of Otis, could 3'ou not have held it in check? 

A. 1 don't know as I could have done any better than the engineers 
and firemen did in that buildmg ; we could not put water wholly on to 
one building. 

Q. Would it not have been possible, if the apparatus had been there 
fifteen minutes earlier, to have held that building? 

A. I should not want to answer that. 

Q. (Ry Mr. Russell.) Do you mean you cannot? 

A. No, sir ; I could not answer that. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) Couldn't j^ou form an opinion? 

A. I should not want to, sir ; I think the chances were against us. 

Q. Did the water come freely when you called for it through this hose? 

A. Yes, sir ; we had good streams. . 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Was it possible to stand in front of that 
building on the corner of Otis street, and plaj' on to it f^:)m the street? 

A. I wouldn't have done it ; I should not have dared to. 

Q. AVhere did you go next after you were driven away from there? 

A. I went into Devonshire street, from four to six buildings from 
Summer street. I thought I would get a hose in there and be prepared 
for the fire when it got to me. I broke open a store and went up into 
the second story and found the building on fire. 

Q.. (By Mr. Cobb.) Inside? 

A. Yes, sir. There was no fire then on Devonshire street. I went to 
the water faucets and tried to get some water to throw on to it, but could 
not get a drop. I then went on to tbe street and ordered some fire 
annihilators or water into the store to put the fire out that was kindled 
there. 

Q. (.By Mr. Philbrick.) How do j^ou suppose the fire got into that 
store ? 



413 

A. My judgment is it was set. 

Q. A separate fire ? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. (By Mr. Eussell.) How far was it from tlie fire? 

A. Tlie fire then was along on Otis street, but it liad not come thr«>u<yh 
into Devonshire. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) Which side of Devonshire street was this 
building 3'ou went into? 

A. On the east side ; on the water side. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) In what part of the building was the fire? 

A. The second story. » 

Q. Were the windows broken ? 

A. I could not say whether they were or not. 

Q. Did you notice whether the}"- were open ? 

A. I have forgotten whether they were open or not? 

Q. What was the building used for ; what goods were in it? 

A. There were boxes or bales. I don't think the building was on fire ;. 
I should think the fire was on the goods, — the bales or boxes. 

Q. Did 3-ou put that out? 

A. No, sir, I didn't get back again into the building. I ordered the 
annihilators in there. 

Q. (By Mr. P'irth.) Were they carried in? 

A. I could not say. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Did you think, at the time, the fire was set? 

A. I thought it very strange that it should be there. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) I wish you could remember about the windows, 
— whether they were open or closed ? 

A. I do not remember. / 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) I suppose the fire was dropping about you la 
the street, — the sparks? 

A. Before I left the roof of the building I came oflf from, the fire 
seemed to go a hundred feet, and likely to annihilate us at any moment. 

Q. Was there not plenty of fire dropping in Devonshire street down 
to this building you went into? 

A. There was any quantity dropping down. 

Q. So if the windows were open, the fire might have got into the 
goods ? 

A. Yes, sir, it might possibly. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) To what point did you go next? 

A. I went into a narrow street or passage-way still lower down Sum- 
mer street. 1 went where the Chief gave me orders. 

Q. When you went to this place in Devonshire street, did you go by 
order of the Chief? 

A. I think not. 

Q. Do you think you consulted with any one about going there? 

A. I don't think I did, sir. Sometimes we have to act to the best of our 
judgment. 

Q. What did j'ou do there in this narrow street? 

A. The buildings had got on fire in the rear on the roofs, and I got 
some lines of hose in there. I got two lines, I think. 

Q.' How long before you were driven from there? 



414 

A. I was not driven from there, but was ordered by the Chief to make 
a stand on the corner of Summer and High, I think. That is, to the 
best of my recollection. The thing was done very quick. 

Q. You say you got two lines of hose ; did you get them on to the 
roof? Did you carry them on to the roof? 

A. I think I did not get them on to the roof. 

Q. Did the men go up on to the roof? 

A. The fire was on the inside as well as on the roof. I don't think 
the men went on to the roof. The fire was travelling so fast that we had 
to work to keep ahead of the fire. That is why the stands we made 
were so short, on account of the fire going so fast. 

Q. What did you do at the corner of Summer and High? 

A. I took a line of hose up into the second building on High street. 

Q. On which side? 

A. On the water side. I thought the men never would get out of the 
front door where we carried them in, and I must get them out some 
other way. I.came down and went on to Summer street, and took a 
line of hose up into the building, and ordered a roof ladder up on to the 
roof and to drop down to the scuttle where these men were, provided 
they could not hold the building and get them out. The ladder could 
not be got up. We got the ladder half way up and got it blocked ; the 
ladder was too long. The men went up on to the roof, climbed up and 
crawled along on the roof, and halloed down the scuttle to them to go 
out of the front door as they could not get off of the roof, and they 
came out through the fire. 

Q. What did you do next? 

A. Then, with Engineer Straw, I concluded we would make a line 
from South street to Federal street in the rear and try to stop it 
there, and fought it successfully. 

Q. There 3'ou stopped it? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. AVliat did you do after that? Where did you go? 

A. Then I went up to Washington street round the lire to Pearl, I 
think. 

Q. AYhat did 5'ou do there? 

A. Got all the engines to work that I possibly could at every avail- 
able point. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) In Pearl street, did you go to work? 

A. I set the engines to work ; some engines that came in from out 
of town at that time, or about that time, or had been shifted from some 
other quarter, at every reservoir and h3nlrant. 

Q. Where were the hydrants and reservoirs where the engines were 
stationed? 

A. Liberty square, and Batter^^march street. 

Q. Was the water carried to Pearl street and thrown on to buildings 
there? 

A. I will not be certain whether there was any carried from Liberty 
square to Pearl, but I put them to work there on each side of Pearl 
street. 

Q. ^as the water thrown on the water side and the other ? 

A. The north-west side when I was there. 



415 



Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) Thrown from the street or from the rear? 

A. From ladders from the street. I sent men into the buildings. 

Q. Did the men get on to the roofs of any of those buildings? 

A. No, sir, I don't thinli they did. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Could they have got on to the roofs ? 

Jt. If I had tliought it would have been of any avail I should have 
ordered them there. 

Q. How many streams were thrown on the buildings in Pearl street? 

A. Really I could not say. 

Q. More than three? 

A. Yes, sir, I should think there was. 

Q. How long was water thrown in Pearl street? 

A. I could not say, for I left that point. 

Q. Who was in charge when you left there? 

A. There was an Engineer from out of town, I think a Salem Engineer. 
He seemed to be a pretty good kind of a man and worked in pretty readily. 

Q. Do you know his name ? 

A. I do not. 

Q. Where did you go from that point? 

A. To Milk street, to the best of my recollection. 

Q. What did you do there? 

A. I fought the fire down to Batterymarch street on the northerly, and 
to Oliver street on the southerly side. 

Q. Were you there when it was stopped in that direction? 

A. Yes, sir, I was there. 

Q. What time was that? 

A. I should think along in the afternoon ; four or five o'clock, to the 
best of my recollection, Sunday afternoon. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) You were there in that neighborhood all day 
Sunday ? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. How did the firemen behave? 

A. As well as men could behave. 

Q. Any exception to that, to your knowledge? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. How was the supply of water ; did you have plenty? 

A. At the first of the fire we seemed to have plenty of water, but the 
streams were not so good at the end. 

Q. Was there any time when any of the steamers failed to throw water 
on account of a short supply ? 

A. Yes, sir, at the Batter3^march street reservoir I shutdown three en- 
gines. There were four engines at work on the reservoir, and I or- 
dered three of them shut off, because one of the engines was i)hiying in 
a very important place, and I wanted her water. I had to shut them 
down for a few minutes. 

Q. People complain that a great deal of water was thrown on the 
second and third stories when the fire was up above on the roof; can you 
account fur that? In the first place, was that so? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Why was that? 



416 

A. Some of the engines were plajing through very long lines of hose, 
and I suppose, also, owing to the scarcity of water. 

Q. Did you see any engines playing on sLone fronts instead of playing 
througli the windows or on the wood work ? 

A. No, sir, not when their streams would reach the windows. 

Q. If that happened, you mean it was because it would not reach, so 
the water would fall on the stone fronts ? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. "Was there any want of fuel where you were that night? 

A. No, because we used dry-goods boxes. There was no lack of fuel. 
I never heard of any complaint on that score. There was one man re- 
ported to me they were out of coal, and I told him to take dry-goods 
boxes for his fire. 

Q. Did that engine stop playing? 

A. Not to my knowledge. 

Q. How did the hose work that night ; was there much trouble from 
the bursting of hose? 

A. Well, there was some, but nothing more, I think, than usual. 
There were a great many teams driving through the streets, and that is 
liable to cut hose. 

Q. Were you troubled by the crowd of spectators ? 

A. Well, a portion. of the time we were. 

Q. Were the police able to hold the lines? 

A. No, I don't think they were after the fire spread. That is a matter 
of judgment. 

Q. Did they hold them, I mean? 

A. They didn't trouble me much. 

Q. The crowd didn't trouble you? 

A. No, sir, they opened right and left. 

Q. Did 3'ou see gunpowder used? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Where? 

A. I saw it on Milk street. On the left going down from Washington ; 
the corner of Milk and Congress, I think it was. 

Q. What was the effect there ? 

A. It took the building down pretty well. 

Q. Was the effect to give j^ou a chance to play on the ruins ? 

A. I think the building would have burned up full as quick. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) Didn't it make the fire more manageable 
and less likely to spread to the next building? 

A. No ; in my judgment it made about as much fire. 

Q. (By Mr. Kdssell.) Did you see any other explosions? 

A. I piled up some powder in one building on Water street, by order 
of the Chief, — about eight or nine barrels or casks. 

Q. Was that exploded ? 

A. I kicked the heads out and put the fuse in. 

Q. Did you light the fuse? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. Did anybody? 

A. I think the Chief did. 

Q. What was the effect there? 



417 



A. I didn't see the explosion. It was a very dangerous operation. 
Tlie fire was coming into tlie building when I kicked the beads out. 

Q. How long have j^ou been connected with the department? 

A. About twenty-five years. 

Q. Suppose you had just that same fire to go through again ; is there 
anything you could suggest that would prevent it becominof uncon- 
trollable? 

A. If I had to fight that fire over again, I don't know where I could 
make an}" better points than I was order. 'd to by the Chief. 

Q. Do you think of any way in which the fire could be better 
managed than it was ? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) In looking back, can you see any reason 
why the fire got such an early start, or got control of you? You were 
there among the earliest ; why was it that that fire spread in spite of all 
your efforts, from the first, as compared with other fires that you have 
often checked? 

A. The alarm, in ray judgment, was given late. We have had fires 
before, in my judgment, that would have burned as much as that if there 
had been fuel for them to burn. 

Q. That is, if they met as combustible material on the way? 

A. Yes, sir; there were the Commercial street and Fort Hill fires. I 
told a Councilman that night the fiie was in Commercial street, if the 
buildings extended to Long Island they would go. 

Q. The bakery, do you mean ? 

A. No, sir, since the bakery ; the fire that took in Matthews' block. 

Q. How long ago; was it since we have had a steam department? 

A. It was at the time the Merrimac had the fight in Hampton Roads. 
I was sitting on a bale of goods playing on the fire when the news came. 

Q. If a fire should break out in any of these high buildings that are 
left, of a similar nature, sliould you expect the same experience? 

A. We have not got a chance in Boston to have another such fire as 
that was. 

Q. Perhaps not so many buildings of that class, but there are a orood 
many of them left. 

A. I would answer that question as I answered a good many people 
after the Chicngo fire, when they asked if it was possible for us to have 
such a fire as they had there. I told them 3'es. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) What were your reasons for saying we might 
have such a fire? 

A. 1 knew if it got away from the building we were in, we could not 
stop it. 

Q. Because the buildings were so high? 

A. vSo high, and the streets narrow, and so much wood-work on the 
top of the buildings. 

Q. Was there sufficient apparatus at the fire early? 

A. I had all the hose that I asked for ; I did not have to hunt for any. 
When I wanted a line of hose, all I had to do was to ask for it. 

Q. Did it seem to you at any time during the continuance of the fii'e 
that there was enough apparatus on the ground? 

A. No, sir. 

27 



418 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) Did it occur to you that the fire had got an 
extraordinary start when you got there? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Did any apparatus come with you, or near you, from Salem street? 

A. I went in with Hook-and-Ladder 1. I generally come with them. 
We generally come together in Dock square, and I went in with them 
that night. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) How did they travel as to speed? 

A. I usually meet tliem in Dock square. I come down Marshall street ; 
they come through New Friend, and we usually meet. 

Q. In regard to speed, did you come quick that night? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. As quick as if you had horses? 

A. Yes, sir ; I don't think that there was much difference. We went 
as fast as I could run. 

Q. Can 3^ou generally keep up with the horses? 

A. For a short run, I can. 

Q. For the distance that you did run? 

A. Yes, sir ; sometimes, perhaps, I might not, and then again I would. 
A man cannot always run alike. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) How soon after j^ou got there did you ap- 
prehend a very serious fire? 

A. When I saw I was getting outflanked on Otis street. 

Q. How long was that after you got on to the spot, should you think? 

A. Fifteen or twenty minutes. The reason that I went into the first 
building, I thought I could go right up into the building and take the life 
of the fire out. Tliat is why I went into the first building ; to stop it 
right where it was. A light fire will not go across a street ; the heat 
will not set the buildings on fire across a street unless there is a large 
body of it. My idea was to put the stream up into the building and 
take the life out of it where it began. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) Y^ou think the best fight was made with that fire 
in the beginning that could have been made? 

A. I will stake my reputation as a fireman on that. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) Y''ou mean after you got there? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Y"ou might have done a good deal if you had been there a quai'ter 
of an hour before ? 

A. Yes, sir ; if the alarm had been given earlier. I have done more 
than twenty-five years' fire duty, but it seems as though it was all con- 
densed into twenty-four hours ; and I have had some hard duty. 

Q. Y''ou saw as much that night as all j'our life before? 

A. It seems as though the Avhole of it was condensed into that. There 
has been considerable said in regard to our not workiiig well, and the 
like of that. I never have seen a man belonging to the Boston Fire De- 
partment that has fiinched one iota. I took a man by the collar in that 
building opposite where the fire took, and pulled him out of the scuttle, 
and carried him to the next building and threw him up on to the roof. 
He was there like a bull-dog, and would not leave until he w'as driven 
out. 



419 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) Was the spirit of the men as good at the begin- 
ning as the next morning, or at any time later in the fire? 

A. Their pluck was good, but the men did not have that strength 
later, to work. There was one point that I forgot to mention, where I 
worked in a building and had Engine 5 in with me, and the men worked 
nobly. That was on Summer street ; I am not sure whether it was on 
the corner of Devonshire or that narrow street — it was one or the other. 
The men stayed in that building, and I had to tell them more than once 
to come out, to save their lives, because the fire was in the stairways 
underneath. 

Q. Would there not have been a good deal more confidence in scaling 
roofs if you had alwaj'^s been sure of a safe retreat? Would you not 
have felt inclined to order them up oftener? I mean, if there had been 
any means provided more than there were. Suppose there had been per- 
manent outside ladders that you knew you could get down from, on 
every block, would you not have had more confidence in going up there? 

A. We should not take men down so quick sometimes. We must see 
our men out of buildings when we order them in. 

Q. Is not that the most effective way of fighting a fire, — to go on to 
the roof? 

A. No, sir ; the best way to fight a fire, in my judgment, is to go into 
the building. 

Q. After the fire gets started, and it gets too hot in the building? 

A. Then you must keep it from spreading on the outside : from the 
roofs and windows of the adjoining buildings. You cannot wet the 
windows in front of the building you are in. 

Q. When the fire spread, say when it was crossing Summer street, 
you went on to the roof because it was your best chance? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Could you cover the front of that building by an engine playing 
from the street? Could you play high enough? 

A. Yes, sir ; until it was extended down the street so the men could 
not go up in front. 

Q. It was too hot in the street? 

A. Too hot and dangerous. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Did the men have anj-thing to eat that night, 
or the next morning? 

A. I don't know ; I didn't. 

Q. When did you eat, yourself? 

A. I got a cup of coffee somewhere during the day. 

Q. Sunday? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Did the men suffer from the want of food that night or early the 
next morning? 

A. I don't think they did ; thej^ could not have suffered a great deal. 

Q. Some people think, being overworked, they ought to have been 
supplied with food ; I want to know whether the men thought of it. 
Was there any complaint? 

A. I didn't hear any complaint. 

Q. Do you think the men were worn out for want of food or refresh- 
ment? 



420 

A. No, sir ; I don't think they were. 

Q. Didn't you feel the need of food? 

A. No, sir. The excitement was so great. The first thing I did when 
I got through, I was very near blind, and I held my eyes open and went 
to the Eye and Ear Infirmary. 

Q. Couldn't you see without holding them open? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. From the fire and dust ? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Do you think the men would have worked much better if they had 
had coffee provided ? 

A. A cup of coffee will enliven a man, I have no doubt. 



NATHAN L. HAYDEN, sworn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) How early did you see this fire? 

A. About five minutes past seven. 

Q. Where were you ? 

A. Hudson street. I was opposite about No. 66, when I first dis- 
covered the fire. 

Q. What did you do? 

A. I halloed " Fire," and went into the house and got my fire-hat, 
and ran across the street to Plose Two's house and helped haul it into the 
street. 

Q. How soon did you get to the fire ? 

A. Inside of four minutes. 

Q. What o'clock was it when 3'ou got there? 

A. I could not tell you what o'clock it was. 

Q. As near as you can. You mean from the hose house you got there 
inside of four minutes? 

A. Yes, sir ; for when the alarm struck we were at Harvard street, 
and there was quite a number took hold there, and we went down very 
fast, quicker than any horses could go the road we went. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) You got to Harvard street before the alarm 
struck? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) When you got to the fire what was the con 
dition of the fire? 

A. It was all over the building, the basement and all the wa}' up on 
the back side. We went into the back side of Kingston street and took 
■the hydrant on the corner and went right in there. 

Q. How soon did you get a steamer on after you got there ? 

A. I should think it was not over three minutes after we got there. 
We ran right ofi", and connected with the hydrant just as fast as we could. 

Q. You say you saw the fire five minutes after seven ; did you look at 
a timepiece? 

A. No, sir ; I came right out of the house. It was about seven as I 
came out of the house, and when I got on to the street somebody spoke 
and said, " See the fire ! " I looked at it and could see it plain. 

Q. When had you seen a timepiece or heard a clock strike last? 



421 

A. I hciird the clock strike seven. 

Q. Do 3'ou know whether your clock is right? 

A. I could not swear to that. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) Did you have anything to do with holding 
that hose when it was played? 

A. Yes, sir ; I held the pipe. 

Q, At what point did that play? 

A. Into the basement. 

Q. Through one of the windows in the alley ? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Did that look like the hottest place? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) Had it begun to run up when j^ou got there ? 

A. It was through the roof when I got there. That is where I dis- 
covered it, coming through the roof. 

Q. Had any other apparatus arrived when you got there? 

A. Steamer 7 was there, but they had not got any water on. They 
were in the alley. 

Q. How soon after did they get water on? 

A. Just about the same time. There was not more than a minute's 
difference. "We sung out about the same time, but our water came before 
theirs did. 

Q. Where did their stream play? 

A. They played in the basement with us, but we didn't play more than 
a minute before it got so hot it drove us away. It was very narrow, and 
the glass and stuff began to fall so quick, we had to get out. 

Q. From the time the first alarm was given until you got a stream of 
water on, liow many minutes was it? 

A. About five minutes. 

Q. It was about six minutes before Steamer 7 got hers on? 

A. I should think it was. 

Q. How long did it take you to get your hose out, and as far as the 
corner of Harvard street? 

A. Not more than a minute and a half. We were ver}' quick. The 
driver said, " Stop and get the box." I said, " There is no need of 
getting the box, the fire is very near." " How do you know?" said he. 
" Look up and you can see it," I said. 

Q. How many minutes from the time you saw the fire until j'ou were 
on Harvard street? 

A. About two minutes ; long enough for me to get my hat and go 
down to Harvard street. 

Q. Do you remember what appai-atus came next? 

A. No, sir, I do not. I was busy at work, and there was a good deal 
of excitement. One thing that dela3'ed us was, there was such a crowd 
we could not seem to get to work. After I came out, after it drove us 
out of the alley-way, I gave the stream up to their Compan^^ and went 
to see about my own Company, and Avhen we came in we took the same 
stream and had to figlit almost to get to work. All the waj' we could 
get to work was to take billets of wood out of the engine and strike right 
and left. They delayed us as much as six or seven minutes. 

Q. Engines? 



422 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Where was she stationed? 

A. Corner of Kingston and Bedford streets. 

Q. There is a reservoir there? 

A. No, sir ; we took the same hydrant that Hose 2 had. 

Q. Had she steam up when she came? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Any fuel? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. How long did the fuel carry her? 

A. We kept getting it. We went into the neighbors' bouses and got 
wood. 

Q. You didn't lose any steam? 

A. No, sir. We kept steady at work. We got out of coal, and a gen- 
tleman there said be had plenty of wood in Kingston street, and we could 
have it, and we went into his house and brought out wood. Then the 
coal came. 

Q. Do you know who that was ? 

A. No, sir. I could not tell the house. We were growling because 
we had no fuel, and he told the fireman, " I have got plent}^ of wood , 
and you can have it all." Then we got boxes from a grocery store. 



ALBERT S. JENNESS, sworn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) You were formerly the Engineer at this 
building where the fire began? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. When? 

A. Something over two years ago. It was two years ago last Sep- 
tember Avhen I left there. 

Q. How long had you been Engineer there ? 

A. Nearly a 3'^ear. 

Q. What was the condition of the furnaces and boiler when you left? 

A. The boiler was in good condition, with the exception that the front 
smoke-arch was burned out a little in the casing ; I .had asked to have 
it fixed quite a number of times. 

Q. It hadn't been done? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. Did you regard it as safe when you left? 

A. I regarded it as safe until such time as the iron had burned down 
to the boiler. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) Was there anything about the arrangement then 
that seemed dangerous? 

A. Nothing, if properly' taken care of. The partition round the boiler 
was merely matched boards. It was something like eigliteen inches from 
the brick-work of the boiler. 

Q. (By Mr. Piiilbrick.) How did the fire-flue get out of the building 
from tlie boiler? 

A. Tlie fire passed under the boiler, back through the tubes and through 
he chimney. 



423 

Q. How did the fire-gas go from the smoke-arch to the chimney? What 
kind of a flue was it? 

A. Sheet-iron ; very short from the boiler to tlie chimney. The boiler 
was against the party-wall. Everything in that regard was safe enough. 

Q. You spoke of the smoke arch being burnt out? 

A. On the under side, where the smoke arch goes on to the lap of the 
boiler, where it is riveted on to the boiler, it began to burn off towards 
the front side, towards the apron. The iron had burned away on the 
front, and left exposed the sheet, and that had burned a hole perhaps as 
big as my three fingers ; nothing so but I could lay a piece of brick on 
to it, and the dust would settle on it and cover it up. 

Q. Suppose that had been neglected, would that present a dangerous 
place for communicating fire outside? 

A. No, sir, it would cause a leak in the boiler, and the water would 
run into the fire-box and put the fire out. 

Q. The damage would have been to the boiler? 

A. Yes, sir ; it would have made it leak, and would have extinguished 
the fire. 

Q. Where did you keep kindlings when you were there? 

A. Between the brick-work and this partition wall ; but the brick was 
never so hot but what I could put my hand upon it, or lean up against 
it. We used to keep kindlings there, but we always considered it safe. 

Q. There was no way of communicating between the fire and the 
kindlings? 

A. No, sir. The only way I can suppose the fire could communicate 
with that wood or with the partition would be by leaving the fire un- 
banked, and having a piece of coal drop out and roll against the 
partition. There used to be a platform about three feet wide, and 
one step, that went down on to the brick-work, and the ash-pit door used 
to swing against this partition. It was, perhaps, twenty inches in length. 
I used to be careful when I left mj- fire at night in the winter to take 
a hoe and crowd ni}' fi;e back one-half of the grate, leaving one-half of 
the grate exposed, and bank what fire I had left, so that in case coal 
should start from the fire it would roll on the grate and remain there ; it 
could not roll out of the furnace ; but if the fire was left so that a coal 
might drop out and roll against this step, or against this partition, it 
would conuuunicate with the partition. 

Q. Could that occur without leaving the ash-pit doors open? 

A. The ash-pit doors are kept shut at night to stop the draft. In 
leaving the fire at night, 1 used to crowd the fire back. Some Engineers 
bank a fire right on a level, and put on wet ashes against the front of 
the door and swing the door around within an inch or two inches. There 
is a great difference in men in that. 

Q. If 30U shut the door it would burn out? 

A. It would burn out at night. It is policy in the winter to keep a 
little heat all the time. Men are different ; some work one way and 
some another. 

Q. Did you ever know coal to drop down in the way you speak of? 

A. Yes, sir ; not out of that boiler, as I know of, but others I have. 

Q. Were you ever troubled with the idea that the coal mij^ht roll out 
and burn the building at night? 



424 

A. I used to think of it, but I used to be careful that such a thing did 
not happen. Eveiy man that handles a steam boiler or engine has a 
reputation to look out after ; if he is careless in one place, it is hard 
work to get emploj'ed in another. 

Q. How far is the wooden step from the partition ? 

A, It used to run on a line witli the partition opposite the boiler. 

Q. Was the space between the boiler and that partition floored over 
on a level with the boiler, or up to the step ? 

A. Nearh' as high as the step. I can't say whetlier it was the brick 
work that ran a little higher, or whether there was a platform there. I 
think the main floor of the basement ran to the brick work, and then 
this partition was built up. 

Q. There must have been a step there? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Which side were the hinges and which side the latch of the fire 
door as3'0u face the door? 

A. There were two fire-box doors opening in the centre, right and left. 

PATRICK H. POWERS, sivorn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Where are 3'ou in business? 

A. Lawrence & Co., 13 Chauncy street. 

Q. How many 3'ears have you been with that firm? 

A. Over twenty-nine years. 

Q. How earl}^ were j^ou there on the night of the fire? 

A. At the store or the fire ? 

Q. At the fire ? 

A. I got down a little after ten o'clock. 

Q. Tell us anything you noticed that is of importance for the Com- 
mission to know. We understood you were there at the outset. 

A. I didn't get there until about ten. I suppose the only thing I 
know about the fire that is of interest to the Commission is the fact that 
during the time our store was in danger, — - say from a little before two 
o'clock until half past three, or between that and four, an hour a half or 
two hours, — there was no Engineer in the vicinity to be found, as far as I 
could ascertain. 

Q. Did you look for one? 

A. Yes, sir ; after I had been in the store perhaps half or three quar- 
ters of an hour, and had been up stairs and down on the roof (I was up 
in all the stories, probably six or eight times during the night, watching 
the course of the fire and the lay of the surrounding houses, calculating 
the chances of it coming to our store), when I made up m}' mind that it 
was crossing over, and our store was to be in danger. I went on to the 
street and tried to get some streams up there. That was after the old 
Post-Offlce building on the corner was on fire, — the store adjoining ours, 
within about six feet of us. That was in a blaze, burning up through 
the roof. I could not get a stream up there. Tlie firemen said they had 
no right to come without being commanded by an Engineer. I asked 
them where I could find one. They said they did not know, but they 
described the dress and uniform of an Engineer, and I went to look for 
one. 1 went through Chauncy as far as Bedford, and up Avon street, 



425 

It was rather difRcult getting through the lines and through the crowd. 
I did not see any Engineer there, and feeling very much interested in the 
store, I went back again. I went up stairs and found the fire still nearer, 
and went down again and tried to get a stream up, and after half an hour 
of teasing, and using every exertion and every means to induce them to 
go up there, I got one foreman to go up stairs with me, all through the 
building, and showed hira the place, and he was satisfied, as I was, that 
that was tlie place to stop the fire, and we got a stream up there, and 
finally another and another. The last stream came in just in time to 
stop the fire from coming up our elevator. We got it stopped there, and 
then an Engineer made his appearance. He was not a Boston Engineer, 
and when I asked him to send more streams up there, he said he was not 
a Boston fireman and had no authority. I infer from the fact of a New- 
ton company being there, and it being near our store then or a little time 
afterwards, 'tliat he belonged to Newton. Newton No. 1 was the com- 
pany, I think, that was in our store, and did service for a couple of 
hours. 

Q. Do you know who the firemen were that declined to go up because 
they had no orders ? 

A. I cannot tell you what company it was. I recollect that Hose 4 
was there from Boston, and my impression is, a No. 2 was there, and a 
No. 20, if there is such a one. It seems to me that there was a No. 20 
there. 

Q. No. 20 steamer? 

A. That I could not tell you, whether they were steamers or hose com- 
panies. I know No. 4 was there, because several men had their badges 
on, and one man I knew connected with it, who, I think, was a news- 
paper reporter. 

I omitted to tell you one thing. The first Engineer that made his 
appearance was this out-of-town Engineer. He said he had no authority- 
whatever, and no right whatever to order any of the Fire Department, 
so I failed to get anything through him. Later, perhaps half an hour 
later — it must have been an liour and a half, or two hours from the time 
we first got a stream, — a Boston Engineer made his appearance. He was 
a low-sized man, and wore whiskers. After going up there with me and 
looking through the building, he seemed to be satisfied with the way the 
thing was being managed by the firemen, and went away, leaving us in 
the store to keep a look-out up stairs and around, to see that the fire did 
not take in any other part of the building. I don't know but he inay 
have come back. There was a building directly opposite us, a new build- 
ing that had never been occupied, and that I thought was, from its situ- 
ation and character, a grand place, as well as our building, to stop the 
fire, and it did stop it for a good while. They stopped it until the build- 
ing on the south-east corner of Chauncy street was all burned, and there 
was no danger from that, but some sparks had caught up on the roof; 
and in one of my excursions up to the roof of our building, I saw this 
spot on the top of the roof of tlie new building on fire, — perliaps cover- 
ing a space of six feet square, — you could only see it from the top of 
our building, — and I went down stairs, and I met this Engineer and 
took him up high enough to show it to him, and told him a stream put up 
there for five minutes would save that building, but if it was left alone 



426 

for fifteen minutes, it would be destroj'^ed. He went away saying he 
would put a stream on there, but there was not any put on until it had 
worked down, and the first thing I knew it burst out of the windows. 
Somebody told me there was a stream got into the lower part of the 
building, and the firemen were afterwards ordered out. 

Q. Was there anything further that you observed ? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. Was not the building occupied by Lewis Coleman & Co. between 
you and the old Post Office? 

A, No, sir ; they were under us. We were in chambers above 
them, in the same building. 

Q. Did your attic window finish take fire? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. Why? 

A. In my opinion, the real cause of the escape of our building was in 
the fact that it was a great deal higher than the buildings on fire imme- 
diately around it; that is, than the old Post-Office building. These 
buildings were very close together. The passage-way between our build- 
ing and the old Post Office was about six feet wide. The windows run- 
ning up and down in some places in that building were opposite to ours, 
and without shutters, so that the flames burst out right oi)posite to ours.; 
but on the roof, I question if any part of our building was even singed. 
I was up there a great deal, and there was no time I could not stand on 
the edge of the roof nearest to the burning building. I attribute its 
safety to the fact that it was twenty odd feet higher than the others, and 
that the wind blew awa}' from our building. The danger to our building 
was at tlie windows, and the windows of the elevator. 

Q. What was your roof covered with ? 

A. It is a gravel roof; what the material under it is I cannot sa}'. 
Mr. Mudge, who was at the fire all the evening, spoke of his building as 
being unusually well put up. I know that all those things that are 
generally exposed are stone or iron, and I understand the roof is 
similarl}' protected. I know the roof is not injured. There are dormer 
windows in the attic on the roof; they are painted, I don't know whether 
on iron or wood. 

Q. They were not severely heated, you say? 

A. No, sir, I could not tell what the frame-work is. I could not say 
whether wood or iron. I know there was at no time heat enough to set 
any part of them on fire. 

Q. The fire was so much below you? 

A. Yes, sir. There was a time when I was down in the lower story 
somebod}"^ said, " They say outside that the roof is on fire." I expressed 
a disbelief of it, but wanted to be sure, and I went up stairs. I went up 
to the attic windows, which brouglit me above the gutters, and looked 
out, but could see no signs of it, and went out on the loof. On the 
corner of the building there is a portion of the roof surrounded by an 
iron railing, where I could go to the edge, but I could see no signs of any 
fire. 

Q. You had no occasion to carry water up there ? 

A. No, sir. 



427 

Q. How were the firemen engaged to whom j'ou went, and asked to go 
on to your roof? 

A. Tlie_y Avere playing and working very hard with three or four 
streams on the front of the buildings in Chauncy street. The buildings 
were on fire at the back and all around, and they were playing on the 
front of the buildings. What struck me as a great deficiency was that 
while those men were working bravely where they were doing little good, 
and working hard, there did not seem to be anybody looking round to 
see where the fire was spreading, and get at the points where it could 
be conquered. The top of our building was a splendid place to observe 
and find out all the points where to attack the fire successful!}' ; but 
during the whole night, I question if there was a person in authority in 
the department up on top of that roof; during this time the store was 
in danger, only one Boston Engineer made his appearance there, and he 
for a short time, and the out-of-town Engineer that I have mentioned. 

Q. How did the}^ stop it on the other side of Chaunc}' street? 

A. I think the new building stopped it from running up on the op- 
posite side of the street. It was a new building with thick walls. The 
partitions had not been built. The timbers were large and solid, and 
there was nothing else combustible in the building ; the roof of it, I think, 
bad walls that went up like battlement walls. The wall went up higher 
than its own roof, and above the roof next to it. 

Q. Did that get on fire once? 

A. It got on fire from the top. 

Q. That is the one that caught fire in the upper stories? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Did they extinguish that? 

A. Yes, sir, after it had burned out the two upper stories. 

Q. How did they apply water to that? 

A. They got one stream out of our windows across the street. I 
notified some of the firemen in the rear part of our building that the 
flames had burst out there, — the Engineer was not there, — and they 
brought a stream round and played out of one of our front windows on 
to it, and then they got on to a building south of that. Next to this 
high building there is one that is low ; and below that another, that is 
quite as high as this new one ; and they got a stream or two up on this 
building, and played across on to the one that was on fire. Then they 
might have had streams on it from the rear, that I could not see on 
Chauncy street. 

Q. At what time did you think you were safe? 

A. Not until — it must have been half-past four. 

Q. In the building? 

A. Yes, sir, I judge it was that ; although, in the excitement, I took 
precious little notice of time. I recollect when the younger member of 
our firm, Mr. Amory Lawrence, came back, being a young-looking man, 
they would not allow him to pass through. I got through, but they 
would not allow him to pass through, and when he got back the danger 
was nearly over ; and that was nearly five o'clock. I should say by 
half-past four the danger was nearly over ; our danger really came from 
half-past two to four. 

Q. How long did they have that hose up through your building ? 



428 

A. Playing on the opposite side? 

Q. Yes, sir. 

A. Not very long ; they got that under very soon. What I was afraid 
of was, the street was very narrow, and the flames came out at first with 
great force. I felt myself quite secure from the fire in the old Post- 
OfRce building, and we were all congratulating ourselves that we were 
safe, when this fire broke out suddenly. I should think the flames came 
out twent}^ feet right across. I was afraid it would catch our store and 
we should have to leave it ; but they got it under very soon. There was 
one stream in our building during the early part of the fire, playing from 
our front windows on a building opposite. 

Q. Playing on to this new building? 

A. On the corner building, which was on fire and had been for some 
time, and I think I went to the men who had charge of that and asked 
them to take it round and play on to the burning building adjoining us, 
but they did not do it. I think the reason was they didn't have orders. 
I am not certain whether it was I or some one else who asked them, but 
I know they were asked. 

Adjourned to Friday, at 3 P. M. 



429 



TWELFTH DAY. 

Friday, Dee. 13. 
ARTHUR REED, sworn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Where is your place of business ? 

A. 66 State street. 

Q. What time did 3-011 go to the fire? 

A. I started from my liouse at the foot of Bowdoin street, immediately 
after the second alarm. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) How far had the fire progressed when 3-011 o-ot 
there ? 

A. When I first got there, it seemed to me it was only in the two 
upper stories. I stood there in the street and about that spot perhaps 
t#i-enty minutes, and by that time the roofs of the opposite buihlings on 
Summer street had begun to take fire. Then I went round throuo-h 
Hawle3- street, and into Winthrop square, and was in that neighborhood 
for an hour. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) Did 3^ou see any efforts made to stop the 
fire from crossing Summer street? 

A. I saw streams playing on the first two or three stories of the build- 
ing where the French roof was burning, if that can be called an efiTort. 

Q. Playing on to the fronts? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Did you see au3' stream playing from the roof of the adjoiniuo- 
building? 

A. I did not, sir. 

Q. (By Mr. Cv.bb.) From where 3^ou stood, could you look up Otis 
street so as to see what was being done there? 

A. Not from Hawley street ; but when I went through Hawle3'- street 
into Otis street, I found an engine there, and the hose was clear alono" 
towards Summer street. Where it was pla3'ing, I can't tell. 

Q. What were the most notewortliy incidents in regard to the spread 
of the fire in this half-hour? 

A. It was the taking of the building on the opposite side of Summer 
street first, and going down through that street, and along the block 
which fronted on Winthrop square. I watched it go from one store to 
another as far as I could in Winthrop square, and stood there until the 
westerh' side of Beebe's block was all on fire ; then I made up my mind 
it was going to the water, and went round into High street to look after 
matters there. 

Q. What matters? 

A. Matters of m3'^ friends, who had stores there. 

Q. Did you stay in High street until the buildings caught fire? 

A. I did, except going over to my place in State street, carrying 
divers bundles, bags of books, etc. I made two or three journeys to 



430 

State street. I was in High street when that large block of Mr. "Web- 
ster's, in the centre of High street, finally took fire. 

Q. Did you see any of the Fire Department on High street? 

A. I saw firemen. I have no recollection of seeing an engine there. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) Were any streams of water thrown on the build- 



ing 



A. I think not, sir. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) Do you recollect between what hours High 
street was burned ? 

A. I can't say positively. My recollection is, it was about eleven 
o'clock when that building burned. 

Q. Were the occupants of the stores pretty generally about there sav- 
ing their property ? 

A. They were not when I first got there, and there were not a great 
many at any time. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) Were those who were there employed in remov- 
ing their own books, papers, etc? 

A. Yes, sir, they were, so fiir as I saw. I remember the first joui*ney 
I made from High street to State street with bags of books, I met scarcely 
anybody, and we were looked upon as very strange people, carrying 
thino-s away from High street. One or two whom we met wondered 
what we were doing. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) Were there an}^ fires in High street at that 

time? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) In regard to the spread of the fire, what did you 
think of it at the time, from all you observed? 

A. When I saw Beebe's block and Winthrop square so entirely out of 
control of the firemen, as I said, I made up my mind that there was 
nothino- to prevent its going to the water, as what little wind there was 
was in that direction. 

Q. Was the spread of the fire very rapid and beyond anything you had 
before seen? 

A. Very far beyond anything I had ever seen. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) Was it mostly on the roofs? 

A. That is where it took in every instance, so far as 1 saw, and worked 
down through the buildings. It held in the Beebe block, I should think, 
twenty minutes. I knew there was a very firm partition wall between 
that block and the store on tlie other side, and I remarked to the gentle- 
man who was with me that that would save it, if anything Avould ; but 
as we watched it, we saw it go over the roof and go down on the other 
side. When I saw that, I left. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) After the fire reached High street, how rapid 
was its progress ? What time should you have had then to have taken 
away your goods ? 

A. Scarcely any time at all. 

Q. Did you notice anything about the wind at that point? 

A. Yes, sir. I noticed a tremendous wind drawing right up High 
street towards the fire. I went out into the street once or twice when 
the brands were flying, and the wind was drawing them almost horizon- 



431 

tally. They didn't seem to strike on the sidewalk, but were drawn right 
up the street. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) How was the wind above the houses? 

A. The wind above the houses seemed to be towards tlie east. 

John B. Brown was called and sworn, but could give no information 
except upon points already covered. 

EDWARD ATiaNSON, sivorn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) At what time did you go to the City Hall on 
the night of the fire? 

A. It would be impossible for me to say positively on that. It was, I 
should say, in the neighborhood of two o'clock. 

Q. What took place there? 

A. My first visit was to find out what the arrangements for the use of 
powder were, and to see if the attention of the parties at Cit}^ Hall, or 
•whoever had charge of the use of powder, could not be drawn to the line 
of Water street as a line of defence ; that is, above the new Post OflSce, 
between Spring Lane and Water street, to make a gap where the fire had 
not reached, and below the Post Office, on the south side, where there 
were low buildings, of small value, the fire then being distant therefrom, 
but working that way. 

Q. Whom did you see there? 

A. I saw the Mayor, and, I think, Mr. Norcross. 

Q. Did you have any talk with the Mayor ? 

A. I had a talk with the Mayor, and he at first said that Mr. Damrell 
had authority, and then he said that he had also granted authority to 
sundry persons, naming Gen. Burt. I didn't ask any authority for ra}^- 
self, because I didn't feel competent to use powder. I didn't know 
how. 

Q. Did you meet Gen. Benham? 

A. I did not, at that time. I went back to State street, and, the use 
of powder still appearing rather desultory, and too near the line of fire, 
as it appeared to me, I was speaking with Mr. Wise, of the firm of Wise 
& Russell, and making a remark upon it, when he said, " If we had Gen. 
Benham, or some other officer, it would be a good thing." At that mo- 
ment, I looked out on the street, and there stood Gen. Benham. I went 
to him and asked him to go to City Hall. He consented, and I went 
with him to the Mayor. Gen. Benham then said that he should need 
men, if he was to have any authorit}', and I volunteered to go down to 
the Fort and get some regulars, taking an order from the Mayor for a 
tug. 

I obtained twelve regulars, two sergeants, and a lieutenant, and I 
caused them to report at the City Hall, hoping they would be assigned 
to Gen. Benham for that use. They were not, but were put on guard 
somewhere. 

Q. You did not blow up any buildings yourself? 

A. No, sir. I do not know what responsibility I would not have taken, 
but I did not feel competent to do that ; and I was very much mortified 
to see my name put in the newspaper in that connection by a reporter. 



432 

The most I did was to act as powder-monkey, to get the powder to one or 
two points where persons, who had authority, thought they needed it, 
and there to leave it under their control. 

Q. Did you see any explosions? 

A. I saw an explosion on the corner of Lindall and Kilby streets. 

Q. What was the efTect? 

A. I thought the intention had not been carried out, of destroying the 
building. l\new that attention had been drawn to that corner long be- 
fore, but at the time of the explosion, it was too near the fire, and the 
first effect seemed to be an immediate flash of flame, which, for the mo- 
ment, looked as though the powder had done more harm than good ; but 
I watched it through, to see the end, and it seemed to me that it brought 
the whole burning material low down, and made it easier to put the tire 
out, and to put it out in the next building to which it spread from that. 
I thought there was a good effect of the powder then, although I think 
the delay in getting off the charge had brought the explosion altogether 
too near to the line of fire. 

Q. Did you see any other explosion? 

A. I did not, near enough to have any judgment about it. I saw sev- 
eral, but not sufiiciently near to have any judgment which I should be 
willing to give in evidence. 

Q. Is there anything which you think the Commission ought to know, 
that you noticed? 

A. As I walked up State street, after dawn, with the twelve regulars, 
the Eu'Tineer in charge of the engines stepped out to the lieutenant, and 
asked him to get his men detailed to protect his hose. He said tliat 
wao-ons and carriages were continually running across his hose and he 
could not protect it. That was the hose on which the safety of State 
street depended. There was an absence of any bridge or apparatus for 
the protection of the hose, which seemed to me to show negligence some- 
where. 

Q. Do you know what P^ngineer that was? 

A. 1 do not. It was whoever had the apparent control of the engines 
at the head of State street, as we passed. I spoke of this afterwards to 
a hoseman, and he said that a model of a hose bridge had been present- 
ed by Mr. Damrell long before, and was lying in the City Hall, and had 
not been adopted ; and he made a rather savage remark, which I will not 

repeat. 

I noticed two points in regard to construction, which I understand you 
are ooing into a little. I happened to know the iron roof over the ro- 
tuncfa of Merchants' Exchange building, and I felt very anxious about 
that building, when I saw the fire getting from the rear into tiie upper 
stories, because I knew that those upper rooms — formerly intended for 
hotel purposes — were stored with furniture, and very infiammahle ; and 
I went to the top of the Columbia Bank, with young Mr. Coolidge and 
others, and watched the fire there, or rather should say Avatched 
the smoke, for we could see no fire, until the floors had been biu-ned 
through, and the whole of the material had fallen into the rotunda. 
The reason why we could see nothing, and the reason of the safety of 
the building, was that there was a good, substantial flat iron roof 
throu'jh which the flames only appeared at the extreme corner from us, 



433 

and there I think they only appeared through a window, not through 
the roof. There, I thought I saw evidence of good construction. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) How did the fire get in under the roof? 

A. It got in through the windows that were on the corner towards Con- 
gress street — the rear corner, towards Lindall and Congress streets. 
Anot'l}«r thing, of absolutely bad construction, not Mansard, I think 
ought to be noted — Monks' Building, one end of which was on Congress 
street, and which ran through, making the back of Congress square and 
joining City Exchange, where Charles Head's office is. That building had 
a flat roof, with a wooden coving projecting about two feet, and it was 
burned, catching fire entirely from that wooden projection. That wooden 
projection burned, in my judgment, at least half an hour before any in- 
jury was done to the main building. I pointed it out to two or three people 
when it caught, and saw it gradually spread until the building burned, 
and then the whole thing came down. It was one of the grave dangers 
on that part of State street. 

Q. I would like to ask if you saw any evidence of organization or 
unity of action in the process of blowing up buildings? 

A. No, sir ; and could not find any. That was what I tried, in my 
humble way, to establish. It had seemed to me, from observation, at 
some distance to be sure, that the blowing up was desultory and alto- 
gether too near to the line of fire. I should not have presumed to med- 
dle with it, except that I thought 1 could see a line on which an eflfective 
defence could be made. 

There was a man, — a very brave fellow, I cannot give his name or 
ideutif}' him, — who, I think, touched off a good many charges in differ- 
ent places. He did not seem to have any hesitation in going in and 
touching them off, I do not know who he was. When I was escorting 
those policemen with the powder in charge, to the point where it was 
supposed it would be wanted, this man said : " I don't want that 

d d sort ; that is sporting powder. I want mortar powder ; that 

brings them down." 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) What were j^our observations with regard to the 
conduct of the firemen during that night? 

A. My only observation about them was on Sunday morning, after I 
came up from the Fort, and then it seemed to me that wherever there was a 
chance to concentrate a stream of water upon a low building, and make 
a fight, they did it. They did it wonderfully well, and, in my judgment, 
their use of water in the upper stories of the Merchants' Exchange 
building was very judicious. 

Q. (By Mr, Philbrick.) Did you think their tactics were good? 

A. So far as I could observe at that time. All the early part of the 
night, I was engaged in saving the goods of J. C. Howe and others ; 
miscellaneous work. 

HON. AVERY PLUMER, sivorn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) While you were an Alderman of the city, did 
Mr. Damrell call your attention to the want of water, in what has now 
become the burnt district ? 

A. Not particularly to the want of water, that I recollect. He repeat- 

28 



434 

edl}^ called my attention to the want of fire apparatus in the burnt dis- 
trict and vicinity, but I do not recollect of his mentioning that there was 
any deficienc}' of water. 

Q. Did you go there with him ? 

A. I do not recollect as to that particular locality, but I went all over 
the city with him. 

Q. Were you on the committee that had charge of that matter? 

A. I was Chairman of the Committee on Fire Department for four or 
five 3'ears. Tlie particular point Avith reference to this district was at 
the time the engine-house was located here in Bulfinch street, when the 
city bought the Smith estate. I was opposed to it, and Alderman Jenk- 
ins was also opposed to it. We felt that this immediate part of the 
cit}' had as much protection as was recessar3', while this large extent of 
territor}^, where so many warehouses were, was not protected. And the 
cit}' had a tract of land on Batterymarch street that was lying idle, and 
the house could have been built there at no cost for land. But we were 
overruled, and this house was put up on Bulfinch street. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) Was it proposed at that time by anybody to put 
an engine-house down on Batterymarch street? 

A. Yes, sir ; by gentlemen on both committees, I think, the Build- 
ing Committee and the Fire Department Committee. I do not know 
whether there was any one else with me on the Committee on Fire De- 
partment who was in favor of it, but I was decidedly in favor of it. I 
thought that was the proper place to put it. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) Did it present itself rather as a question between 
two places? As between the two, j-^ou would go there? 

A. Yes, sir; I would go to Batterymarch street, rather than to Bul- 
finch street. In the first place, because I thought (and I believe the 
Chief Engineer thought so too) that that part of the city needed more 
protection ; and, in the next place, on the ground of economy. 

Q. Did it impress upon you that that was a point, by itself, requiring 
an engine house? 

A. Yes, sir. There is no engine house, if I recollect right, along the 
water front, from East street, until you come round to the North end, be- 
low Union Wharf, I think. 

NATHANIEL J. BRADLEE, sworn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) How long have you been an architect in 
Boston ? 

A. Twenty-one years, for myself. 

Q. Is there any diflSculty in building Mansard roofs which shall be 
non-combustible? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. How should they be built? 

A. They should be built with iron rafters and beams, and covered 
either with copper or iron ; I should prefer copper, being lighter. 

Q. Is there an}- less expensive material than copper which 3'ou "con- 
sider safe in such a place? 

A. Yes, sir ; composition roofing (gravel and tar) is next to copper. 

Q. Is that better than tin ? 



435 

A. Yes, sir ; you can heat through tin much quicker than through 
composition or copper. 

Q. (By Mr. Eussell.) What do you think about the danger of a com- 
position roof burning? 

A. I have tried it on several occasions, making considerable fire, and 
never could set it on fire. 

Q. Was that when the roof was new? 

A. New and old both. I have tried it in all stages. 

Q. (B}' Mr. Firth.) So far as your observation went, what should 
you conclude from the experience on the night of the fire with regard to 
the comparative safety of different kinds of roofs? 

A. I think the slated roof did more harm than any other. The 
slate cracked from the heat and exposed the wood at once. The roofs 
covered with composition took fire last, and then they did not take from 
the top, they took from underneath. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) Do you think a wooden cornice, if covered 
with sheet-iron, the proper finish for a wall sixty feet high? 

A. No, I do not ; I think if covered with galvanized iron, leaving an 
airspace between it and the brick wall, it would be safe ; but I wouldn't 
attach it to wood. 

Q. You wouldn't attach the galvanized iron to the ends of the 
rafters ? 

A. By no means. 

Q. How should they be attached? 

A. By iron stays, let into the brick wall, carrying the brick right up. 

Q. Iron furrings? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) I would like to ask you if you saw any of the 
results of the use of gunpowder on the night of the fire? 

A. In two buildings that I have had charge of, powder was used, — 
Mudge's store at the corner of Summer street, and the Merchants' Ex- 
change building. 

Q. What was the result? 

A. The only damage done to Mudge's was b}^ powder, which in my 
opinion was uselessly used. There was some fire in the Merchants' Ex- 
change building, but the damage was increased by tlie use of powder, 
blowing off" the iron roof. To illustrate that: The Sub-Treasury had an 
iron roof, and wrought-iron girders, trestle girders, and over the L part 
the same. The roof over the Exchange room was blown off", blown all 
to pieces, and down on the Sub-Treasury floor, carrying everj'thing with 
it. The roof over the L wasn't blown off", and remains perfect to this 
day, although the building had wooden floors there, which were all 
burned out. 

Q. What damage was done to Mudge's building? 

A. The easterly wall and part of the northerly wall were sprung about 
half an inch, and the lower door-way and stair-case were blown into Sum- 
mer street, and about S2,000 worth of plate glass broken. 

Q. How much damage in dollars and cents was done to the Merchants' 
Exchange by the use of powder, in 3'oiir judgment? 

A. I should think the loss by the use of powder was at least $30,000, 
which might have been saved if powder had not been put there. 



436 

Q. Don't you think the fire would have clone much more damage there, 
if powder had not been used? 

A. No, sir, the fire was pretty accessible. 

Mr. Philbrick. The advocates of the use of powder claim that they 
rendered the fire accessible by blowing that roof off. 

Witness. I w^ould like to have you examine the premises and 
see for yourselves how that was. You will find that the windows in 
Merchants' Exchange room are whole, and but very little burned. The 
fire came in, apparently, through an iron door-way in the L part, which 
was burned at first, and could have been easily managed without touch- 
ing that roof. 

Q. Didn't it get into the lofts where the furniture was stored? 

A. It got into the rooms in the further end ; the rooms at this end are 
still intact. It got in quicker after the roof was off than it would have 
done if the roof had been allowed to remain, and they could have stopped 
it without blowing off the roof. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) Have you seen the elevator in use at Mr. Wel- 
lington's store on Chauncy street? 

A. No, I have not. 

Q. Have 3'ou seen any of the automatic elevators, where the hatches 
close after a load passes up or down ? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) Shouldn't you consider that a desirable ap- 
pendage to the elevator trunks in the city ? 

A. I should. I should consider it a very decided improvement. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) Both as a protection to life and against fire? 

A. Yes, sir ; and not an expensive one either. 

Q. What is your opinion of the feasibility of introducing permanent 
water trunks into the large warehouses, which has been suggested by 
some of the correspondents in our papers, in order to avoid taking hose 
into the upper parts of the buildings? 

A. It struck me very favorably. We have put one now into Jordan 
& Marsh's, and they also have a connection with the Cochituate main, 
so that they can turn it on themselves. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) How recently has that been done? 

A. Since the fire ; the connection with the main pipe was to be made 
to-day. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) I suppose, in case of fire, the Cochituate 
head wouldn't rise to the top of that building without a pump? 

A. I think it might. If thej'^ had turned on the high service at Rox- 
buiy, and used the two engines, they might have increased the force 
somewhat. 

Q. (By Mr. Eussell.) Didn't they -do that? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. Is the high service in a condition to be immediately connected with 
the lower part of the city ? 

A. Yes, sir, by just opening the gate at Beacon Hill, the water would 
be let down this wa^'. 

Q. (B}^ Mr. Firth.) How high arc those pipes carried in Jordan «& 
Marsh's stdre? 

A. To the upper story. 



437 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) How large is the pipe? 

A. The pipe is three inches in diameter. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) How high is the upper story? 

A. The upper stor}'- of the building is about sixty feet. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) Can they tap it in any story? 

A. Yes, sir, in each story ; the head of the Cochituate is about twenty 
feet above the top of their roof, but of course, when they tapped the 
pipes in a great many directions, the head would be reduced at once. 

Q. If the fire broke out in that building, they would have the full 
head ? 

A. Yes, sir ; when the fire broke out, they would have the full head. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) Have you any knowledge that the connec- 
tion was not made with the high service on the night of the fire? 

A. I know it was not. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) "Who is the person who has charge of the high- 
service pipes? 

A. The east division of the Water Works is under the charge of Mr. 
Jones. I suppose he had as much as he could do that night to keep the 
supply round in this direction. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) Are those stationary pumps so arranged 
that they can both be worked at once ? 

A. Yes, sir. We keep them for alternate service, so as to keep them 
in order, but they can be worked together. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) Have both of them ever been used on any 
special occasion ? 

A. They have not. We have never had an}' fire in the district with 
which the high service is now connected since they were introduced. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) Do you think, if the high service had been 
connected on the night of the 9th of November, that the supply of water 
would have been ample in this district? 

A. I can't say that. I don't know as it would have increased the sup- 
ply ; it would have increased the head. 

Q. Wouldn't that have furnished a great deal more water in a given 
time? 

A. Yes, sir ; that is, the head would have been inci'eased ; the pres- 
sure would have been greater on the pipes. 

Q. Are the pipes in that part of the city adequate to sustain that 
pressure? 

A. The}^ have never been tested by that pressure, but there is no 
reason why they shouldn't bear it. The original pressure by which they 
"were tested was more than that would have given them. 

Q. While you were on the Water Board, was the subject ever prom- 
inently brought before 3'ou of introducing the Lowry hydrant? 

A. That hydrant was introduced in some instances. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Who brought it up? 

A. The first Lowry hydrant was placed in Winthrop square some ten 
years ago, I think ; when we extended the pipes into Roxbury, we put 
the Lowry hydrant throughout that section, and we have also used it 
in the Dorchester district. 

Q. Was there ever any request or demand that it should be placed iu 
Boston proper? 



438 

A. No ; the objection to having it here then was that the firemen were 
not acquainted with it ; they wouki have been obliged always to carry 
one of the heads ; and to have one part of the city one way and part the 
other would be bad. Then there was another objection : The Lowry hy- 
drant, to be efficient, must be placed over the centre of the pipe, and 
they were an obstruction in the streets ; whereas, the hydrants which we 
use in the city proper are on the sidewalk. Then, again, in case of snow 
and ice, it became a question whether they would be so desirable in our 
narrow streets, where, in winter, there are sometimes two or three feet 
of snow, and you couldn't get at them ; but the sidewalks are al\va3's 
cleared. Those in the Roxbury and Dorchester districts are all over the 
pipes ; that is one of the advantages claimed for them, that they are 
right over the main. Mr. Cobb knows what an inconvenience the caps 
are in the streets. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) After your experience, to what conclusion have 
you come in regard to the Lowry h3'drants? 

A. I don't see that they are any advantage over the other hydrants, 
although the firemen claim that they are. 

Q. Are they not capable of furnishing more water? 

A. I think not. They reduce the head at once ; 5'ou may get more 
water to run seventy or eighty feet high, but the more taps you put into 
any pipe, the more you reduce the head. 

Q. That would depend upon the size of your main, would it not? 

A. The mains are all calculated for the natural supply, not for a large 
conflagration. 

Q. ^By Mr. Cobb.) Ought they not to be provided to meet that 
necessity? 

A. Under the circumstances, I don't think they should be. I think, if 
you should lay pipes to meet such a contiugeucy as we have just had, 
they would cost more than the whole water supply. The pipes in Kings- 
ton street, for instance, are now six inches in diameter, and they are 
ample for the ordinary wants. If you were to put in pipes twelve inches 
in diameter, they would cost at least ten times as much. 

Q. (By Mr. Piiilbkick.) It is not a continuous outla}^, it is a plant 
of capital. It would not increase the current expenses, would it? 

A. Well, you take the cost of the distributing pipes in the city proper, 
which, if my memory serves, was some $G, 000, 000, if the streets were to 
be piped the size necessary for such a conflagration as that, it would 
cost at least seventeen or eighteen millions of dollars. The city wouldn't 
be justified in making such an expenditure. 

Q. (By Mr. Fiktii.) If the question was a new one, what would be 
your judgment ? 

A. 1 shouldn't make any change in the pipes. I think everything de- 
pends, in case of fire, on its management at its starting-point. 

Adjourned to Monday, at half-past seven. 



439 



THIR TEE NTH DA Y. 

Monday Eveking, Dec. 16th. 
WILLIAM COPELAND, stvorn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) What is your connection with the Police force ? 

A. I am attached to Station No. 5. 

Q. Were you present when the cellar and boiler of the building first 
on fire were uncovered? 

A. Yes, sir. I found one of the doors of the furnace open about an 
inch, and the other open about four inches. It was a double door. 

Q. What was the condition of the boiler? 

A. The boiler to all appearances was good — all that I could see. 

Q. You have not been able to see the top yet, have you? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. What was the condition of the coal? 

A. I should judge that there was from one-eighth to one-quarter of a 
ton of coal in the tire-box, on the grates, under the boiler pushed back. 
It was partially burned coal ; but I took out one piece and found that it 
was fresh and not burned at all. That was just off of the grate. The 
body of it was pushed back. 

Q. Was there any in front of the fire-box, on the floor? 

A. There was, I should think, one-eighth of a ton of fresh, new coal 
there. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbkick.) Was that on the brick hearth ? 

A, Yes, sir, — about twelve inches below the floor of the cellar. 

Q. Was there a step there ? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. What was it made of? 

A. That was brick. 

Q. Was any part of the wooden floor of the cellar remaining? 

A. There was a small piece left there ; perhaps tlie whole of it would 
not amount to the size of 3'our table there. It was enough to show the 
level. 

Q. Would it show where the floor came against the boiler ? 

A. It was about twenty inches from the boiler-wall. 

Q. Was there an unburned edge to show where the edge of the floor 
stopped formerly — before the fire? 

A. Yes, sir. It stopped at the edge of the sunken place in front of 
the boiler. I found a straight, clean edge there. 

The hearth was about eight feet square, I should judge. The edge of 
the wooden floor came to within three or four feet of the boiler door. 
There was no wooden floor nearer than four feet. All the fire in the 
grate had been pushed back. 

Q. How near was the nearest of it to the door? 



440 

A. I should think ten or twelve inches — perhaps twelve inches. 

Q. Did you find the remains of the shovels? 

A. The shovels were taken out of there with the handles burned off; 
I was not there at the time, but I saw them afterwards. 

Q. When was this tliat you dug down to it? 

A. It was last Saturday forenoon. 

Q. Was the fire banked with ashes, or in any other manner? 

A. I could not see any ashes there. I could see nothing but coal. 

Q. (By ]Mr. Firtii.) The appearance inside did not indicate that it 
was affected by the outside great fire itself? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. Did it look as if there had been no outside fire? Did the coal in- 
side of the grate look as it would have looked if there had been no out- 
side fire? 

A. Oh, yes, sir. 

Q. Under the ordinary course of things, if the fire had been left in that 
way, would not the coal have burned up probably? 

A. Probably in back it had burned. But the grates were about twelve 
inches from the front of the doors, and this piece of coal lay on the flat 
part of the iron — not on the grate. 

Q. AVould it not burn down to less than one-eighth of a ton before go- 
ing out? 

A. 1 should think that it would. I should have thought that it would 
have all burned up. 

Q. What prevented it from burning up? 

A. I cannot tell, unless the draft "was shut off in the chimne3^ The 
front ash-doors were shut tight. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Was there any kindling wood about there? 

A. Nothing that I could see. Furthermore, I waited there until they 
shovelled everything out, and there was nothing in the shop but old coal, 
cinders and the like, in the space that was bricked. I was very particu- 
lar about that. 

Q. No old rubbish ? 

A. There was some calico, prints, or something of that sort that was 
taken out. But prol)abl3^ that fell there. It was buried up in the rub- 
bish, partially burned. 

Q. Did you see anything that looked like kindling-wood? 

A. No, sir. There was some charcoal. But that probably was from 
the ruins. 

Q. What seemed to have prevented this piece of floor from burning? 

A. I cannot tell, unless it was the stuff falling on to it, and the water 
playing in. That was all of the floor that I saw. 

Q. This was twelve inches down from the floor to the brick work? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Was it all one step ? 

A. Yes, sir ; there was no appearance of the step being divided. 

Q. (By Mr. Firtii.) Was there any appearance of fire having been 
communicated from tliat? 

A. I should think not. Tlie walls of the boiler appeared to be perfect, 
with the exception of something falling against it in one case, — I mean 
the brick casing. 



441 



Q. Did you see the skin of the boiler at all ? 

A. No, sir ; only the ends, — what is called the bonnet. I believe 
you could see the tubes — all of them. 

Q. Did you see the communication with the chimney? 

A. Partly. The flue was gone. It went from the front up to the 
right-hand corner. There were some bricks in the wall gone. The flue 
in the wall was gone. I could not see where it went up, but I should 
think it went up along flat, horizontall}', for eight or ten feet. There 
was flngging-stone set in there for some reason, and we concluded that 
that was the flue that was the draft of the engine-room. The engine- 
room was between there and the elevator ; but there appeared to be a 
brick wall between the boiler and the engine. 

Q. Did that flue pass as far as that brick wall? 

A. Yes, sir; I should think that it passed by it. 

Q. What prevents you from seeing where the flue went up ? 

A. The wall has fallen ; it has fallen about even with the top of the 
setting of the boiler. There is one place where there is the appearance 
of a flue ; but if it was a flue, there has something fallen out from it. 
That is some ten or twelve feet from the boiler ; it might be a little more 
than that. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) From all 5^ou saw, is there anything that led you 
to believe that that fire originated in or about that furnace? 

A. I could not see the first thing. 

Q. You were looking for that particular appearance ? 

A. Yes, sir ; I have been a fireman myself for seven or eight years, 
and am an old hand in the department. 



WILLIAM M. FLANDERS, sivorn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Have j^ou been on the Fire Department Com- 
mittee ? 

A. Yes, sir ; for the fivej'^ears ending this j^ear. 

Q. Has Chief Engineer Damrell ever called your attention to the want 
of facilities for extinguishing fire on what is now the burned district? 

A. Yes, sir ; a great many times. 

Q. What has he said ? 

A. I think as long ago as 1869 betook me down through Franklin 
street. We went down together. (I could not fix the time exactl}^ it 
may be longer ago than 1869.) He called ni}' attention to it, and had a 
little map drawn out. He told me the extent of the hydrants, and how 
the}' were located, — in particular a Lowry hydrant, which is located 
nearl}' opposite Donahoe's printing establishment, I should think, and 
which he was very anxious to have remain. 

As he had it dotted out on the map, he said, " Now I have not got a 
hydrant here in Devonshire street, until I get away over to tliis part of 
Devonshire Street; and in case of any conflagration here, I don't think 
that our service-pipe is large enough to give us a sufficient quantity of 
water to put out the fire." 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) By " service-pipe " you mean" the street- 
main? 



442 

A. Yes, sir ; it is perhaps more properly the street-main. We took 
some action in our Fire Department Committee at that time to call the 
attention of the Water Board to the fact. I remember urging it very 
strongly that as long as our department paid for $60,000 or $70,000 
worth of water, we should control the hydrants ; that they did 
really belong to us, — I mean our Board, or the Committee on the Fire 
Department. 

The Water Board would go to work and discontinue hydrants, without 
ever notifj'ing our Board. In taking up the streets, as they are con- 
stantly doing for re-paving, sewerage and the like, I don't think in a 
single instance did the Water Board notify the Fire Department that 
they had disturbed a hydrant. At the same time, we paid this awful sum 
of $60,000. 

The Chief Engineer took the ground that if the Fire Department had 
the control of the hydrants (it coming out of our appropriation, we pay- 
ing twelve or fifteen dollars for every hydrant put down, and for the 
Lowry hydrants twelve or fifteen dollars more, we have always urged 
that we should have the Lowry hydrants) that in winter and cold weath- 
er we could see to the management of them better than the Water Board 
had heretofore done, by the proper packing and trying of them and 
ever3'thing of that nature, and that we should have control of everything 
that pertained to the hydrants. 

I will now come down to another period, viz. : that when the House of 
Correction took fire. Mr, Cobb was on the Board at that time. I was 
called to go there, but was not a member. That was a year ago last 
April, I think. 

The Chief was very anxious that I should see the first Engineer that got 
there and talk to him about the supply of water there. I found that 
they had not any water of consequence there. You could get it through 
a squirt-gun as well as through that hydrant. They were compelled to 
go to the ocean for water, and also out to the Glass Works, where there 
was a large mud-pond. We had to run our hose out there. If it had 
not been for that, we should never have stopped that fire wdiere we did. 
It was all owing to the small pipes that they had, and to their not being 
properly packed. Capt. Regan found an old reservoir there and suc- 
ceeded in getting what water we wanted. 

Then, to come down a little farther, I think it is about a year ago this 
month that Steamer 7's house caught fire, in this way (if I am properly 
told b}^ the Engineer that has the charge of the engine of that house) : 
the water, it seems, had been turned off by the Water Board, and the 
Fire Department Committee, the Chief Engineer and the other P^ngineers 
had not been notified ; they thought the water was frozen up, and they 
went to work to thaw it out, when there was no water there, and 
in that way they set the building on fire. When the engines got down 
there, there was no water to play upon it. Whether there was any 
blame to be attached to any one for that, I don't know. 

Then to come down to the time just after the conflagration at Chicago : 
the committee and I were very anxious that the Chief should visit 
Chicago and learn all he could in regard to the use of gunpowder, and 
how the fire was managed. He came home, and we went down through 
our district — took his horse and buggy and rode around. He said, 



443 



" I dread a fire here at a time when we have a great drought." We 
were going through part of the district lately burned. He said, " If a 
fire should get in here and we should have a short supply of water, I 
don't thinlv tliat any agency, human or divine, could stop it." I said, 
" We must keep up our apparatus, have new hose, and, if there is a 
necessity for more engines, we must have them." We took pains to 
keep the apparatus in good order, and I think at the time of the fire the 
department never was in better condition in respect to the supply of 
hose, and everything except in regard to the condition of the horses. 

Q. Did Capt. Damrell call your attention to the supply of water in 
this vicinity? 

A. Before going into that I might speak of this fact : In the location 
of engines, we have always had a great deal of trouble to get one located. 
If we wanted one in a certain place, some committee would want it in 
another. Take the matter of the location of Steamer No. 4, which you 
are well acquainted with. In the first place, a member of the Council 
introduced an order asking for authority to locate it under tlie Court 
House. Mayor Gaston said he would see the Judges, but he thought 
they would object to its being located there. They did object. Our 
friend, the editor of the " Commercial Bulletin," came out with a red-hot 
article against me, saying that I was trying to put up a job. We adver- 
tised. Some wanted to put it down in Bowker street. The Chief said 
he never would consent. He wanted it nearer this way. We adver- 
tised for proposals for Steamer No. 4. They came in — from $75,000 
to $150,000. I w^ent to see Mr. J. B. Smith, and he told me that he had 
been assured that he could get $60,000 for his site. I told him that we 
never could advocate that amount. Here was a large amount of valua- 
ble property left uncovered if we took it away. Tben I went and saw 
Mr. Clapp, the editor of the " Journal," and told him that I would like 
to have him see Mr. Smith and see if he could not get his price down. 
We got his price down to $55,000. We carried it through and got the 
steamer located there. 

The Chief has always been for bringing apparatus nearer the centre, 
instead of locating it on the outskirts of the city. 

That night of the fire I had just left my house ; and before I heard 
the alarm, living in Edinboro' street, very near where the fire was, I 
heard people halloing fire, and running towards Kingston street. When 
I got to Kingston street (I think before the alarm was sounded), the 
flames seemed to be right out on the roof, coming through the windows. 
I heard Steamer 7's gong strike as she came out of her house. Thej' 
must have seen the fire. It was very clear, and you could hear the gong 
a good ways. I could not swear that it was No. 7, but no other steamer 
being in that direction, I took it for granted that it must be Steamer 7. 
I had no idea but what the Chief would be able to stop the fire, be- 
cause we always had stopped fires. 

Within three or four months, I called the attention of our committee 
(which consists of Alderman Woolley, Alderman Clark and Alderman 
Cutter) to the fact that I thought it very important that we should have 
control of the hydrants. It was not three months ago. You will find 
it on the record, before we thought of any conflagration. I have urged 
it very strongly in the committee that we should have control of the 



444 



hj'fli'a-nts so long as we paid for them. It was brought before the Water 
Board, but no written report was made in regard to what action they 
took in tlie matter. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) Has there been any record made in the com- 
mittee about the Cliief 's asking for greater facilities, — both as regards 
apparatus and water? 

A. He never has called for any apparatus, to my knowledge, but what 
he has had it. 

Q. You said you had taken some action in the committee regarding 
water and the putting in of Lowry hydrants? 

A. I presume there has been a record made of that, because it was 
entrusted to Alderman Cutter. It was about three months ago. 

It has been talked in general committee, and I have talked outside 
that we ought to have it. I have always said that we ought to have 
control of the engine-houses, which we do not. 

Q. You have felt the necessity of having a large supply of water 
there ? 

A. Yes, sir ; I have, from the very fact that the Chief has always 
called my attention to it, and I have been in favor of it. 

Q. Wh}'^ have you not introduced it into the City Council ? 

A. We never could get any full vote of the committee to do it. 
Alderman Cutter, being on the Water Board for three or four mouths, 
called their attention to that fact. 

Q. Can you get that record ? 

A. I presume so. While we are on the subject of the Lowry hydrant, 
I would say that our department has always been considered a ver^'' ex- 
pensive department, and the AYater Board thought that these other 
hydrants were just as good as the Lowry hydrants. 

Q. You didn't think so? 

A. I only knew from what the Engineers told me. 

Q. You think the pipes had lost their pressure often, with this small 
hydrant ? 

A. It struck me so. There didn't seem to be any pressure that night. 
That was early, — when they first got a-going. 

Q. Did you sec the Chief? 

A. He was rushing right around among them all. I hailed him, but he 
said he could not stop. 

Q. Did he seem to have a definite plan? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. I understand that your impression is that the difficulty was in the 
Water Board ? 

A. I merely tell you what our efibrts have been to get control of the 
hydrants. If we had had control, we would have had in the Lowry 
hydrants. 

Q. Is the location of hydrants determined by the Water Board? 

A. Yes, sir. They put them in where they are a mind to. Never to 
my knowledge have they consulted with the Chief Engineer. And in 
putting in tliese fire-alarm signals, they put them in where the fire-alarm 
committee say. That is a special committee — the Committee on 
Bells and Clocks. 



445 



C. W. FREELAND, sworn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) At what time did j^ou reach tlie fire? 

A. It was a little before nine o'clock ; I should say about quarter 
before nine. 

Q. Where was your place of business ? 

A. 14 Devonshire street is my office. I did not get to the fire at that 
time. The President of the Hamilton Bank (of which I am a Director) 
and the Cashier of the Massachusetts Bank were there, and we Avere in 
conversation about the prospect of the fire coming thei'e. 

At eleven and a half o'clock, we hired a large truck-wagon and brought 
it to the front door, and kept it there until we wanted it. I was in the 
building there from ten to fifteen minutes, so as to notice the fire. It 
worked along to Milk street. The Post Office made a barrier there ; and 
we were there until seven o'clock in the morning before we removed the 
valuables out around in the rear. 

I told several gentlemen at the Hide and Leather Bank (I don't know 
that they were firemen), that I thought it was very strange that they did 
not get on top of the buildings more. 

The " Post " building got on fire, and the buildings below that were on 
fire and burning down. Much surprise was expressed that there were 
not more firemen on the tops of the buildings. It would be easy for 
them to get off', because they could run from one building to another. 

After the Hide and Leather Bank building was burned, I went down to 
the brick building below the cross street on the right of Water street. 
That building was on fire. It is only a two or three story building. It 
was on the right side. I think drugs and paints are sold there. It was 
apparently about falling in when I was there. I thought that it was so 
far away from the Shawmut Bank that that building was perfectly safe 
and would not take fire, 

I came back to the banks and reported to the President and Directors 
that I did not think that there was one chance in twenty that the fire 
would get there. It was not long after that that the Shawmut Bank 
took fire from some source, and the fire kept going to the north of the 
Hide and Leather Bank building. 

Our valuables were taken to a place of safet3\ One was in Hamilton 
square, and the other was opposite the Atheuffium. I went up there, 
and the fire had just begun to drift north, where the Hide and Leather 
Bank was. 

My coachman brought me up in a carriage. I told him to go into 
this square and remain there. When 1 came up past here I could not 
see him.- 

I was not gone from the building half an hour before I was back 
there, and then everything had burned up to the rear of the Exchange, 
including Monks' building and another. They were almost totally de- 
stroyed. They were all flat. [Illustrates with a diagram.] 

Here is a solid wall. I leased this building of Mr. Howe for 
twenty-five years, and filled it up. When I did so, I put a brick wall 
there a foot thick. These two buildings were built together. I in- 
tended to put up a battlement-wall, but didn't think of it in time. 



446 



These roofs were together. There was no entrance except through the 
entry-wa}^ here. 

Tliose were the only two vital points in this building. When I re- 
turned I went down to the end of the building to see the condition of 
things, and found that everything was flat. There is a road-way that 
runs along by this building. Out of the fourth story of my building 
was going a stream of water on to the wooden cornice of that building. 
There were two or three streams of water playing on to this building 
that was on fire. I told the firemen that I wanted a stream of water 
upon the top of this building immediately. They told me that it was 
useless — that the building was so high, that it was impossible to do 
anything towards saving it. I found it impossible to get any of them 
to play upon it. I spoke to all the men there who appeared to be in 
command. 

I immediately came back here into Devonshire street and saw at the 
"Post" building several white hats. I went there as quick as I could, 
because I was alraid of this roof. The first man that I spoke to proved 
to be Capt. Damrell. I didn't then know him from any of the rest of 
them. He listened to me and immediately sent to State street and 
placed two streams of water under my command. I had told him of the 
importance of the thing. 

1 told the men that I wanted a stream as quick as it could be brought 
there. We started and came here, and I m3'self assisted in taking the 
hose up to the top of the building. We got it up in a reasonable length 
of time. 

1 told the men to take axes and cut away the roof from the back side 
of this brick wall, anywhere. There was some one up there who also 
gave them instructions to tear off the wooden roof, which they did. I 
told them that they must not in any event allow the fire to cross that 
wall. 

I then went down and got the other line of hose and took it up 
into another building (which was fire-proof — of stone and mar- 
ble) and fought the fire. There was not much fire in the first story. 
The men went up stairs, and it seemed to be \^xy difficult to get at the 
fire. My great anxiety was for fear the hose might burst in being taken 
up those stairs. I had very little time to observe what was being done 
elsewhere. After I got back, about half-past twelve o'clock, I confined 
myself to this place. The work was done very well. My ideas were 
carried out. They seemed to be short of hose in carrying it up. There 
was no lack of hose on the top of the building. 

Q. Do you think that in the absence of your giving them this infor- 
mation as to this line of defence, it was sufficiently apparent to any 
of the Fire Department for them to have seen it ? 

A. No, sir, it was not. There was no one else there probably that 
knew the vital points. I knew them, because I built the wall myself and 
occupied the building, and, in an instant, as soon as I saw the fire in 
the rear of my office, I thought of these things. There was one building 
on fire there that was higher than the other. There were two low build- 
ings where Bond's chronometer watch establishment is. At the end is 
Congress square. There was a solid brick wall between the high and 
the low buildings, and I knew that when that had burned out the other 



447 

buildings were perfectly safe, because the fire had been stopped on the 
opposite side of the street. I knew that those buildings were perfectly 
safe, and I had nothing to fear upon that ground. I presume the fire- 
men, if they had known the points of defence, would have taken care of 
it, and done it in time ; but there was not a chance in fifty of its being 
done, because they did not know the construction of the building. It 
was the key to the whole situation, as you see by the diagram. 

Nobod}^ would know' anything about this unless they were familiar 
with the premises. If I had not been there it would have burned. Capt. 
Damrell was quite ready to listen to me in an instant. He didn't see it ; 
but I told him what it was and what I wanted. 

Q. Did he seem to see it from your statement of the case ? 

A. He listened to me at once, and he went and gave me the relief I 
asked for at once, so that I inferred that he took in the whole situation. 

Q. What do you think of wooden cornices in case of fire, — from what 
you saw of them that night? 

A. My building there had a stone cornice on both sides. When I 
rebuilt it I put on a stone cornice in front. I should not put anj' wooden 
cornice on an^' building. I put on my own dwelling-house not only a 
stone cornice, but a stone dormer window. 

Brick is the best building material there is. There is no question 
about that. Mr. Brewer and many people have been to see me about 
building material, knowing that I have built considerable, and I have 
invariably said that I would only use brick or iron, and my preference 
was brick. If I was going to erect a handsome building in Devonshire 
street, I would have it of heavy iron in the first storj', because 3'ou want 
to get in a good deal of light, and in that respect there is no substitute 
for iron. Above, I would have it of brick, with some light stone trim- 
mings, and I would paint the brick of some suitable contrasting color, 
and have handsome plate -glass windows. I believe the General Gov- 
ernment are going to give us plate-glass cheap for a time. 

Q. Did you notice anything about the way in which the granite stood 
the fire ? 

A. There were no walls fell while I was there at the place before spoken 
of. While I was in the banks during the night, from what I learned, it 
seemed to me that they didn't fight the fire enough from the tops of 
buildings. Standing in the street, they had little effect. The danger 
was from the tops of buildings rather than from the bottoms — from 
those wooden dormer windows and wooden cornices. If the heat was 
sufficient to set the stores on fire on the north side of Franklin street, 
just from the heat on the south side, it would seem hard to tell where you 
could use water. It would be pretty rough on top if it was hot enough 
to set buildings on fire on the north side of Franklin street. The fire 
looked very bad when I first saw it. 

Q. Did you ever see a fire spread like that? 

A. Never anything to approach it. 

Q. (By Mr, Philbrick.) Do you consider the present style of eleva- 
tors running from cellar to attic, prudent? 

A. The elevators at our factories have sliding doors at every floor, 
and they open and shut of themselves. If any of you, genllemen, have 
been in mills, you know how they are constructed. I can show you. It is 



448 

a very desirable thing to apply to all Boston elevators. It is desirable on 
more accounts than one. You avoid the danger of falling dowu the 
hatchwa}'. They are thus constructed in all modern mills, so that when 
the elevator passes up it crowds the doors open, and then when it comes 
the other way it shuts right down again. In my opinion, it should be 
rendered compulsory. The cost is moderate. Nobod}" now builds a 
first-class mill without one of those. 

Q. Do you know what the cost is ? 

A. I can't tell you to-night, but I can send it immediately, because we 
are putting in several. 

Q. Is there a patent on it? 

A. I thinlv that there is a patent on it still. I think that W. H. 
Thompson, treasurer of the Manchester Print Works, has the patent. I 
think it was invented at Biddeford. He has a patent on it, or au inter- 
est in it. 

Q. 8end whatever papers about it that you have to us. 

A. I can inform you, because we have several of those elevators going 
in at Chicopee Mills. They ai'e made at Ilolj^oke of the same pattern. 
It is my impression that the cost is $1,200 or $1,500 dollars. On my re- 
turn from Chicopee I will send you an exact statement. I don't know 
what the cost of these is. The patent right is a very small tax upon it. 
The only difference between this and the ordinary elevator is in this open- 
ing and shutting of the doors. Then you have the expense of the doors 
and of the attachment. There is a royalty, I think, of $300 on an eleva- 
tor. One elevator answers for quite a large warehouse. I suppose from 
the experience of this fire it is shown that gravel roofs are much safer 
than tin or slate. I think gravel preferable to tin, and I suppose tin and 
copper are not very diflerent, except that copper is thicker. Other than 
that, there is not much difference, because the danger arises from its 
being heated through on to the wood underneath. Both are soon heated 
through. 

Mr. Powell, the mason, was telling me to-day about the Mercantile 
Building on Summer street, that there were quantities of fire and of in- 
flammable materials, and of materials on fire that fell on to that building 
and went out, and thattliis building didn't take fire as quickly as Trinity 
church, wliieh was covered with slates. 

Q. How extensively have you built in Boston? 

A. My experience has been more in dwelling-houses than anything 
else. I have built a million dollars' worth or more of dwelling-houses, 
and I built over the Exchange, which was substantially the same as 
erecting a new building. 

It must be an understood thing that when a fire breaks out, a certain 
number of firemen or hosemen must run up and go upon the top of the 
building. 

Q. (By Mr. Piiilbrick.) Is it not very difficult to keep the hose from 
bursting when it is carried up in that way? 

A. That lire went up six stories high, and the water was carried 75 feet 
after they got on top of the buildings. 

Then you may have iron stand-pipes. It is no matter about having 
them on the outside of the building, onl}'' to have a connection outside. 
Tiuit is what we have for factories. We have iron stand-pipes on the 



449 



outside of mills, with a fire-escnpe right alongside of them that can be 
run out of the building for the people to go down the steps ; we have a 
stand-pipe about every 100 feet. 

Q. Would not the value of the upper stories pay for having the two 
ripper stories indestructible? 

A. That tends to enchance the cost. I don't expect they would erect 
buildings more than five stories high, but the lower the building the 
greater the cost. All about Franklin street and Devonshire street, these 
upper stories were as full as hives, and they all paid well. The}'' would 
not pay in State street, because j^ou could not get a class of tenants that 
would pay. Beebe had rented to outside parties. Skinner & Co., and 
Lelaud, Allen & Bates, one or two stories for storage. It was a conven- 
ient place, near by, and they were kept rented all the time. 

Take the actual addition to the cost from putting on six stories rather 
than five, and in the percentage there is no expense except the actual ex- 
pense of the walls, the iron, and the putting on of another floor. The 
percentage received from that additional expense is just as good as the 
percentage that would be received from the whole building. With steam- 
elevators, the fifth or sixth stories are just as good for storage as the 
second. 

GEORGE SNELL, sivori 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) For how many years have you been an archi- 
tect, in this country? 

A. I came to this country in the latter part of 1849. I have been 
here since 1850. 

Q. Do you know any difficult}'^ about building Mansard roofs of incom- 
bustible materials? 

A. No, sir, I know no difficulty at all about it. 

Q. Of what materials would 3-ou build them? 

A. There is a variety of fire-proof materials that I would use. The 
dressings, architraves, cornices, or whatever it might be about the dome 
or windows, I would have of incombustible materials, it may be of brick, 
stone or iron. The mouldings, if any, down the steep front, and the flat 
at the top, or the less steep inclination, I would have of iron, or at least 
covered with copper or tin. 

Q. If they are so made, are Mansard roofs objectionable in regard to 
fire, or more exposed to fire than other roofs? 

A. I think I can show you that the very best form of roof is what 
would be called here a " Mansard roof" i. e. any steep roof. 

Q. How would you cover the steep portion? 

A. I don't suppose that slate is absolutely combustible, but one could 
do much better than that. If it was very steep, it could be iron, or cov- 
ered with copper. I saw the other day a material made of Neufchatel stone, 
for roofing, which they told me they could make slabs of, to cover the 
upright surface. 

Q. You have not tried that? 

A. I saw the experiment of it on a flat roof. I was there after the 
fire had been burning some tin^e and when it was nearly out, and I could 
not see any effect that it would have on the roof. I went underneath and 
29 



4J0 

put my hand on the incli-board — the one thickness of board that is un- 
derneath it, — and it was scarcely warm. 

Q. What was the thickness of the preparation of stone? 

A. I sliould think it was about half an inch. 

Q. (By Mr. Firtu.) Where is that prepared? 

A. They are going to prepare it in Boston, if they can get a business. 
They are preparing it now in New York. The probable cost would be 
fourteen dollars per square, and it is quite reasonable. 

Q. Is it a new composition? 

A. I am told not. They used it as long ago as before the fire in Ham- 
burg. It has been used in London and England. It has been tested, as 
they told me, by the military authorities in England, w^here they had had 
two roofs that they had built covered with this material. They built a 
fire upon one roof and kept it on there a long time, and it had no effect 
upon it. They put another roof up, and put a fire underneath it, and 
after a while, the wood under it was burned and the roof fell down and 
put the fire out. When that which supported it was burned, the fire was 
put out. This composition is prepared in the form of paste and spread 
upon the roof in a connected mass. 

Q. Do 3'ou consider slate on a wooden boarding a proper and eflficient 
protection against the steep inclination of these roofs, when they are 
heated by an adjoining building? 

A. 1 w^ould rather have copper. But I would much rather have slate 
on one of these roofs than on one of the old-fashioned roofs. 

At the fire, I didn't see roofs take fire through the slate ; but I noticed 
particularly the eflfect of fire upon one building in which the value of 
parapets properly constructed, and of party-walls projecting in front of 
steep roofs, was strikingly illustrated. I saw a remarkable instance of 
that, — an instance in Avhich the fire was entirely stopped, although the 
moulding that was down the steep part and the flat at the top were of 
wood, and the dressings on the dormer windows were of wood, and one 
dormer window was, I think, about three feet only from the parapet-wall. 
It was one of the Hunnewell blocks. The exposure to the heat in this 
particular one was lengthwise in the block. The other had caught fire 
in front and in the rear. But this one at the last, after I was obliged 
to leave the scene, was no doubt set on fire by the building just opposite 
to it, viz. : the Cathedral block. 

The building I was in caught fire from the buildings adjoining. That 
Cathedral block was only distant from it about ten feet, and the windows 
of it were opposite the windows of the other. There was an opportunity 
of testing precisely whether a fire would spread from one building fierce- 
ly on fire, with a properly constructed parapet-wall, or parapet running 
down a steep roof in front, the cornice being of stone, — whether that 
would communicate fire to the other. It did not do so in this instance. 
There was not a single stream of water pla3'ed upon the building, be- 
cause the firemen were engaged entirely in putting out the fire upon the 
building opposite, — in order to save Wright & Sons' building, and stop 
the fire there if possible, 

Q. Do 3'ou consider the common method of constructing elevators in 
our warehouses a prudent thing? 

A. No, sir. I think it very imprudent indeed to have an opening 



451 

from the cellar right up to the top — a sort of ventilation-shaft, as it 
were. 

Q. Have you seen any building constructed with self-closing hatches 
in the elevator? 

A. Theie was a model brought to my office, a few da3's after the fibre, 
in which there was a very ingenious contrivance for shutting the hatches 
as you came up. The platform as it rose impinged against some cams 
that turned around and opened tlie scuttle above, so that as it approach- 
ed it, it opened in the way which I now illustrate, and as it left it, it shut 
it again. The scuttle was a hinged scuttle. 

Q. There is one in operation in Mr. Wellington's store, which operates 
automatically? 

A. I have not seen that. But of course there must be a great many 
different ways of closing hatches. 

Q. If the closing of hatches were left to the care of attendants, do 
you think it would be done efficiently? 

A. I am quite certain that it would not be done efficiently. 

Adjourned to Tuesday afternoon, December 17th. 



452 



FOURTEENTH DAY. 

Tuesday, December 17^ 
THORNTON K. LOTHROP, sworn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) At what time did j^ou go to the great fire? 

A. I left my house about half-pnst seven o'clock in the evening. 

Q. What was the condition of the fire when you arrived on the 
ground ? 

A. I suppose I got down there about quarter before eight ; it is diflSi- 
cult to tell precisely. I stopped on my way, waiting for a gentleman 
who was on his door-steps to go down with me, and we went down first 
to the head of Summer street, and then round through Franklin street, 
into Winthrop square, and in that vicinity. 

Q. Had the fire got into Winthrop square when 3'ou reached there? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. Where was it? 

A. Klous's building, which was the first building which took fire, was 
pretty well in flames, but nothing had fallen. The wood-work of the 
building on Carney's old estate, on the opposite corner, had caught more 
or less. I can't answer as to the front of the building opposite 
Klous's, on Summer street, — that is, where John C. Gray used to live, 
but the wood work on the side, the windows, cornices and so on, had 
very slightly caught. I suppose the front may have been well in flames ; 
I didn't see it at that time. There was a ladder up on the building two 
or three doors further down Summer street. The firemen were playing 
water on that Klous building (I can't tell about Carney's), and on the 
side of the building on Otis street opposite. 

Q. You say there was a ladder further up on Summer street? 

A. Yes, sir, a little further up, but even nearer the fire than Mi- 
not & Pierce's store was, for I remember wondering whether that 
would catch or not. The fire was substantially, it seemed to me at that 
time, confined to that building, the others having caught a little. At 
the same time, the opposite corner of Summer street may have been all 
on fire in front ; I can't tell about that. I stood in Winthrop square, I 
should think, between half and three-quarters of an hour, and I didn't 
feel at all apprehensive, while I was in the square at that time, that the 
fire was going to spread an}^ further. I didn'^ go out into Summer street 
at that time. When I left there, the side of the building on Otis street 
had caught a good deal more, and it looked to me as though that build- 
ing would probably go ; at the same time, I didn't think the fire would 
then jump that gap from there to Weld and Beebe's building. There 
was no one on top of the building, or anywhere about it. I left there 
and went round through the back alleys and into Milton place and High 
street, and so up into Summer street, and came up nearly to Church 
Green. I was some considerable time in getting round there, and when 



453 

I got round there, the fire in Summer street showed signs of stretching 
-down towards Church Green, — not much, but still a little. 

The ladder I spoke of had been moved further along, and 1 saw fire- 
men going up the ladder outside, but there was no hose going up that I 
could see. They were still washing down the granite outside, without 
reaching the fire. I stayed there, I suppose, some twenty minutes ; per- 
haps I might say I was gone from Winthrop square twenty minutes ; 
while I was standing there, there was a sudden rush of flame and great 
masses of burning wood. I say " masses ; " I mean that pieces six inches 
long came over directly where I was standing, so that the people about 
there turned up their coat-collars first, and then, as another shower came 
•over, started and moved back a little. I moved back a little. 1 then 
•went back into Winthrop square, and when I got there the policemen 
were just drawing a line across the square. The steamers had moved 
back to those blocks on Devonshire and Franklin streets ; perhaps not so 
far back as that, but still well back of Winthrop-square block. In two 
minutes after I got there, the Winthrop-square block seemed to be lighted 
from bottom to top with a flash of flame ; the whole thing was evidently 
on fire. I stayed there five or ten minutes. I can give you the judgment 
■which I expressed at the time, — not an after judgment at all. I turned 
to the gentleman next to me and said what I should say now, " This fire 
will go to the Custom House, unless it is stopped by blowing, or something 
^Ise ; it is entirely beyond the power of the firemen now." I didn't think 
it was going to stretch up towards Washington street, from the way it 
had been going (I had observed the way the flames were tending), but it 
seemed to me it would go square down in front of the Custom House, un- 
less something was done to stop it. 

Q. Did you notice any facts in regard to the conduct of the firemen? 

A. The individual firemen whom I saw worked extremely well. The 
water at that time in the evening didn't touch the fire at all ; an occa- 
sional spurt of water would strike the cornice or heavy projections of a 
building, but it was a very occasional stream of water ; that was the best 
a man could do if he was standing on the sidewalk, and spurting at a 
fire which was very high up. It was impossible to hit it except by acci- 
dent. 

Q. When you first arrived at Winthrop square, did you see any ladder 
up, or men on the roofs of the buildings on Otis street? 

A. I think the ladder was up when I first got there ; it might have been 
put up afterwards, but I am quite sure there was a ladder up there, and 
some men appeared on the top of the buildings on the side where Mr. 
Gray's building was, on my left as I was standing. There was no lad- 
der while I was there, I am very sure, on the southerly side ; but there 
was no hose playing on the top; whatever water was played, was played 
from the bottom. When I came round on the other side of Winthrop square, 
there was a hose carried up, if I recollect rightly, through a low 
building between the Winthrop-square block and the building at 
the conier of Summer street; there was a passage down there, and a 
small brick building, and a hose was carried up to the top of that build- 
ing, and across the roof; how far it went I can't say; it Avasn't light 
enough to see ; but I saw a hose carried up there, and carried over the 
joof of that building, so that it could reach the fire from that side. They 



454 

were pla3'ing wilb some success on this side of the building in that back 
passage-way, but where the granite fronts were, there was nothing that 
hit the fire at all. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Was there anj-thing further that yon noticed? 

A. No ; I came away. I looked round to see if I could see the Chief 
Engineer, proposing to ask him if he had sent for the Lynn steamers, 
and if he had not, to suggest if I couldn't do something for him by going 
to the station. I didn't succeed in finding him. I then went home, in- 
tending to return, but when I got home, 1 found that every man, woman, 
and child had deserted that part of the town, and as my wife was not 
well, I was obliged to stay there. I understand that there was no request 
made for the engines on the line of the Eastern road until twelve o'clock. 
The manager of the road, Mr. C. F. Hatch, told me that he was called 
from his bed about twelve o'clock, and asked to send down and get the 
steamers on the road ; he can tell you what he did about that. I was 
just as confident, when I went home, at nine o'clock, that the fire was 
beyond control, as I was at three o'clock in the morning, when I went to 
bed. Everybody observed the state of the atmosphere. I saw the flame 
from almost the first ; the fire bells hadn't sounded three minutes before 
I saw the flame ; that was what called my attention to it. It went up 
sti'aight as could be. I think the bulk of the engines were working on 
the other side of the fire, towards Bedford street. 

There was no hose played off the ground, except in this back place to 
which I have referred, so far as I could see ; whether they could or 
couldn't, I can't tell. I observed (what everybody observed) that the 
firemen were standing there washing granite walls ; they were doing 
that in various places on Summer street and Otis street. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) Apparently, they couldn't reach any higher with 
the streams? 

A. They couldn't reach ; given that the men had got to stand on the 
sidewalk, they were doing the best they could with their hose. Of 
course it is patent to anybody, if you stand on the sidewalk, in front of 
a building, and the fire is way up in the roof five or six stories above 
you, you can't reach it. 

Q. Do 3'ou think the engines did their best as well as the men? 
A. The engines at that time were doing their best. There were not a 
great many engines there ; all the Boston engines hadn't got there then. 
The engines came along one after another. I know at nine o'clock, when 
I was in Franklin street, there was a Boston engine came, drawn by 
men. In my opinion, the fire so early got beyond control, that is to 
say, in an hour and a quarter, that no one except a very big man, who 
was willing to take extraordinary measures, to withdraw himself from 
the immediate supervision of an}' engine, and take in the fire as a whole, 
could have successfully contended against it ; and I don't know that any- 
body could have done it. 

GREELY S. CURTIS, sworn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Will you tell us what time you went to the 
fire? 

A. At the third alarm. 



455 

Q. Directly to the spot, I suppose? 

A. To Summer street. 

Q. What was the coudition of the fire when you arrived? 

A. It is impossible for me to say ; it was burning fiercely. 

Q. Had it crossed Summer street? 

A. It had crossed Summer street, to the best of my belief. 

Q. How long did j'ou remain at the fire, in various places? 

A. Until twelve o'clock Sunday noon. 

Q. Will you tell us any facts you noticed which you think ought to 
be brought before the Commission ? 

A. At half-past eight in the evening, I found the fire was beating the 
firemen at that particular point where I was. I went round the fire to 
see what luck they were meeting with on other sides, and they seemed 
to be meeting with equally bad luck. When I got back to Summer 
street, I went round it again, to see where the firemen would probably 
stop the fire. On my return again, I went round to see where the fire 
would stop itself. 

Q. Did you notice any facts about the conduct of the firemen, or their 
manner of contending with the fire? 

A. I thought I saw at first one stream thrown from an upper story 
window, to an equal height opposite upon the roof, and one only. 

Q. Was that over the building next to the corner of Otis and Summer 
streets ? 

A. It was the building at the corner of Kingston street that the stream 
was going on ; not the corner, for I think that was already burned down, 
but the building that was down from the corner towards South street. 
That building is still standing. Later in the evening, there may have 
been more, although I didn't notice them, because it was obvious to my 
mind that water was of no good ; but up to half-past ten, that was the 
only stream that I saw thrown from roof to roof. 

Q. Was there any other fact which you noticed? 

A. I noticed that the first time I went to the fire, there was one, if not 
two engines which were out of fuel and whistling for fuel, and at times 
were breaking up packing-boxes to keep their fires up. 

Q. Were their fires slack? 

A. I can't say whether tlieir fires were slack, but they were breaking 
up boxes to keep their fires going. I can't say whether they were slack 
or otherwise. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) How late was that? 

A. That was early, not later than half-past nine. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) Were the machines at work? 

A. I think that particular machine was stopped at the time. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Where was that? 

A. That was near tlie corner of Church Green. 

Q. You can't give us the number of the machine? 

A. No, sir, I can't. 

Q. Did you see that at any other time? 

A. I heard the whistling of engines for fuel at other times, but I did 
not see any means taken to supply them. 

Q. Is there any other fact which you think ought to be brought to the 
attention of the committee ? 



456 



A. There is hardly anything which I shoukl think of any importance. 
I noticed, in going ronntl to find wliere the fire would stop, — or at least 
where I tried to imagine it would stop, — that the coals were falling on 
the Hartford & Erie Company's station, and the wooden buildings in that 
vicinity, and there was nothing there to protect them ; that was the first 
time I went round. The second time I went down there, I found that 
the coals had done their work, and set those buildings on fire ; that the 
fire had made a jump, skipping the buildings on High street. There is 
one thing I should like to say which may have a bearing, and that is, 
that the buildings in the early part of the fire which I saw, caught in the 
roofs, and no one of the streams that I saw reached the roofs. When 
the fire attacked the block, or the end store of the block on Devonshire 
street, where it joins Summer street, I saw a very light flame, and asked 
one of the firemen if it wasn't possible for them to get a stream up there ; 
it could have been easily put out if they could have got a stream up by 
a hose through the building. 

Q. What did he say? 

A. He said he had too much to do. 

Q. (By Mr. PuiLBRiCK.) Was that an Engineer ? 

A. I don't know whether it was an Engineer or not; it was a felloe 
who seemed to be looking around there alter fuel. 

Q. Did lie have a white baton? 

A. I didn't notice his hat. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) Did you see the Chief? 

A. I didn't, unless 3'ou call the Mayor the Chief. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Do you know Mr. Damrell? 

A. I don't know him by sight; all I know of him is merely through 
beaisay. One other thing which I noticed, and which T suppose every- 
bod}'' else did, was that they were spurting on the outside of the houses, 
instead of reaching the roofs. That is one thing we wei e all talking 
about. I was with Charles Elliot, Prcs. of Harvard College, the second 
time I went round, anil we noticed that almost universally. 

I afterwards went to the Mayor's ofl^lcc. Having in mind that they 
would begin to use powder at about eleven o'clock, between eleven and 
twelve o'clock, I went down to a friend's ollice on Kilby street, near 
State street (I having set State street mentally as the limit of the fire), 
to help him move out, or get hold of his clerks, if they were there, he 
being out of town, which shows that at tiiat time 1 thought the fire was 
beyond water ; and after waiting several hours, 1 went up to the Mayor's 
ofiiee, to see if I couldn't induce him to take the same view of it. 

Q. (Bv Mr. Russell.) Did you see him? 

A. I did. 

Q. Did you have any conversation with him? 

A. Tiiere were three of us in the party, and he stated that he had 
given Gen. Burt full authority. That was previous to any explosion. 
Wo went (l<;wn to sec if there was anything being done in the way of 
powder, and after waiting some time, wo went back and saw the Mayor 
the second time, and he again repeated that Gen. Burt had received full 
authority to act. We pointed out to him that Gen. Burt was doing noth- 
ing, api)arently. He said that he couldn't do anything more than he had 
done; that we must find Gen. Burt, and that he was at the new Post 



457 

OflSce. I went down to the new Post Office and searched round for him, 
but couldn't find him. I don't know whether I went back the third time 
to the Maj-or's office or not ; if I did, it was merely to hear the same 
thing, — tliat we must find Gen. Burt. 

Q. Who was with you on these visits? 

A. On the first visit, there were Col. Lee and Mr. Henry L. Hio-o-in- 
son, I think, but I would not be positive. 

Q. The first time you saw the Mayor, did he say that he had given 
Gen. Burt authority, or that Gen. Burt had authority? 

A. I didn't pay any attention to that shade Qf his meaning. I thought 
at the time, from what he said, that he thought he had the authority, but 
I would not be willing to say that he used any particular form of words, 
such as you suggest, either one or the other. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) He may have used either? 

A. He may have used either. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) Did you see anything of the results of the 
explosions ? 

A. I saw the result of one explosion, which was the blowing out of a 
lower story, and the hanging, apparently, of the upper part — three or 
four stories. 

Q. Where was that ? 

A. I think that was at the corner of Water and Congress streets. At 
five o'clock Sunday morning, I saw that Summer street, near where the 
fire broke out, was a lake. 1 wish to throw that in, because I understood 
there was some doubt as regards the supply of water. I know it was 
there at five or six o'clock, for I was paddling around in it myself, sur- 
prised to see so much water in the street. 

Q. Did you see anything like thieving or stealing on the part of an^*-- 
body? 

A. It could hardly be called thieving. I saw things taken out into 
the streets and men helping themselves ; but I didn't look upon them as 
thieves. 

Q. Do 3'ou know whether the goods were given away? 

A. I don't. I saw in Pearl street, I think it was, a building very 
much on fire, and some fellow was throwing cases of goods into the 
street, and then the men outside smashed them in, and they received a 
sort of fi'ee distribution. 

Q. Were they firemen? 

A. Oh, no ; I should think they were outsiders. 

Q. Did you see any intoxication among the firemen? 

A. Kone whatever. I thought the firemen worked splendidly. I 
never saw a braver set of men, or men who were working with less of 
head. They were standing up to it like good-fellows. It seemed to me 
there was no management at the top of the ladder. 

Q. (By Mr. Gkeene.) AVhen you visited the Mayor's office, was it in 
consequence of your opinion that gunpowder should be used? 

A. Yes, sir. I had been convinced of that for at least two hours, at 
that time, and had been hoping to hear some explosion ; feeling confi- 
dent, all the time, that however late that conviction might come, it must 
come finally. 



458 

Q. You were unable to find any one who had authority to use powder, 
after visiting the Mayor? 

A. I only searched for Gen. Burt, understanding from the Mayor that 
he was the one who was placed in corauiand. 

Q. You supposed that he had general authority? 

A. I tliought he had general authority. 

Q. And yon were unable to find hini? 

A. I was unable to find him. 

Q. Where did you seek for him? 

A. I looked for him at the new Post OfSce ; there is where I under- 
stood the Mayor to say he was. 

Q. You saw no other party using gunpowder that night? 

A. No. I saw pov/der going through the streets in charge of police- 
men. I saw one or two explosions, but I didn't see the head man. 

Q. You saw no one who gave the authority ? 

A. I saw no one to whom I could speak. The policemen were keep- 
ing the streets clear for the explosions. 

Q. (By Mr. Piiilbrick.) How did it appear to 3'ou that the police duty 
was done during the night, in keeping the crowd away from the firemen? 

A. I thought that where they had their orders to keep the crowd 
away, they did very well. 

Q. They have general orders to that effect, haven't they? 

A. I thought ihey were rather good-natured. They let us come in 
quite close to the firemen. 

Q. Did the}"^ have ropes to keep the crowd back? 

A. They did later in the evening ; not when I first went there. I was 
prevented by no policemen from going anywhere I chose ; the heat of 
the fire was the only limit. Afterward, there were policemen, soldiers 
and sailors. It seemed to me, at half-past ten, that the quicker powder 
was used the greater the safety, and the less blowing there would have 
to be done ; and that if a belt were blown at that time from Washington 
street, if necessar}', or from Ilawley street, down to Fort Hill, that it 
would be a good plan. I thought tliat would be a good plan at half-past 
ten. I don't know what time 1 went up to the Mayor's office ; it could 
not have been before one o'clock, and I don't think it was so early. 

J. M. CRAFTS, sivorn. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbeick.) Will you state what you know about the 
origin and spread of this fire, that you think of importance? 

A. The points that I noticed particularl}' were, that in verj'- few cases 
the water was carried up to the roofs of the buildings. 

Q. How early did you arrive? 

A. At about quarter before eight o'clock, and remained there on and 
off. 1 happened to be going to the theatre with some ladies, but instead 
of going in, I went to the fire ; and during the performance I was there 
perhaps one-third of the time. I afterwards went back about twelve 
o'clock, and stayed until four. In Summer street, during the early part 
of the fire, I noticed very often that streams of water were playing 
against the fronts of buiklings without at all reaching the parts of the 
buildings which were on fire, aud in very few instances was the stream 



459 

directed downwards on the fiio, or on a level with the fire. After beino^ 
in Summer street during the time, after gomg back and forwards through 
Summer street, the remainder of the night I passed at the north end of 
the fire, near Pearl street — I didn't see the part near.Washinglon street 
— and there the same thing was apparent. I noticed that on some 
buildings near Pearl street the water would sometimes be squirted par- 
tially on the roofs, but in verj^ few instances did it go over and fall on 
the flames. In a great many cases they were playing quite uselessly on 
the fronts. 

Q. Was that from lack of power in the stream to reach the roofs, or 
lack of direction? 

A. Lack of power in the stream ; it couldn't be carried high enough. 
The men apparently received orders to play on a certain building, and 
played upon it from the ground, but the fire was above the point that the 
water reached. 

Q. "Wasn't most of the fire communicated from roof to roof? 

A. Yes, sir; almost entirely. The fire didn't spread in the direction 
of the sparks. It caught almost entirely from the radiant heat, the heat 
on one side of the street being intense enough to ignite the wood on the 
other side of the street, or from building to building in that way. As to 
the management of the fire, I saw two instances in which the engines 
were out of coal. In one instance, the engine was burning boxes which 
were taken out of a store ; and in the other case, it was not burning any- 
thing at all. The Engineers told me in both cases that they were out of 
coal, and coal was brought from a store. They wanted cannel coal, 
and they got it through private individuals. 

Q. Did they have to stop playing for want of fuel? 

A. One of the engines stopped for a time, and then began to burn 
boxes ; they were not apparently throwing any stream. 

Q. How early was that ? 

A. That was about two o'clock. It was on Pearl street. One of them 
was stationed directly on Milk street, just around the corner from Pearl 
street. The other one was in Pearl street, I should think, about one 
hundred yards from Milk. It was suggested to one of the Engineers that 
they had better get some coal from llie stores. They said they wanted 
cannel coal, and didn't know where it could bo found. They said the 
Engineer's cart hadn't got round that should supply them, and accord- 
ingly gangs of men went round, and after inquiring at two or three 
stores, they found some cannel coal, and the people gave it very freely. 
I wanted to carry some coal to one of the engines, but the men told me 
they were going to move from where they were, immediately. I asked 
them where their next station would be, and at first they couldn't tell 
me, but afterwards they told me where they were going, and I got a load 
of coal and went to the place, but didn't find the engine, and dumped it 
in the street. There appeared to be a want of anything like a stall ap- 
pointment to carry orders to the different engines as to their stations. 
Then there were two instances, one at the corner of Milk and Broad 
streets, and the other in South street, where the suction-pipe of the en- 
gine didn't fit. They were dclaj-ed in consequence of it : at least, that 
is the reason the Engineer gave. He said they were going somewhere (I 
don't know where) to get the necessary- screw connections. 



460 

Q. When you say they appeared to be employed uselessly, how did it 
•occur to you they should bo employed ? 

A. That is a point which is scarcely within ray province. It occurred 
to me at that time that the only way was to employ some other means 
than engines; that is, attempt to blow down a line of buildings and 
malce a gap across which the fire might be prevented from passing. 

Q. Did it appear to you then that it was beyond the control of any 
Fire Department? 

A. At this point, the engines which were stationed there were doing 
absolutely nothing. 

Q. Did 3'ou see any use of powder afterwards? 

A. Yes, sir. I saw the use of powder in Kilby street. The first 
building where I saw powder used was a low building. The explosion 
blew out a portion of the side and tore down the flooring. I think it 
came down in a jagged way. It didn't throw down the building. The 
next time they attempted to blow up, the powder was brought, and the 
fuse didn't explode, and of course there was considerable delay before 
they ventured to put in another barrel, and that exploded. That was a 
large building owned by the heirs of the Sturgis estate, in Kilby street, 
I think, at the corner of Lindall. The first attempt at exploding wasn't 
successful, and the next attempt only blew out the windows, and appar- 
ently a small portion of the building. The building didn't come down, 
and at the time that was made, the building had caught in the upper 
part. The powder was carried in rather a dangerous way, I thought. 

The only other point which I noticed which would be interesting, was 
the want of any attempt to organize means of saving goods from the 
fire. There were a number of men with badges, I don't know whether 
they were special policemen or not, standing about, but I didn't see that 
they did much work. They were usually lookers on. I didn't see any 
single attempt to organize the bystanders into gangs of men to carry 
goods out of the buildings. Back of Pearl street a large amount of 
goods could have been saved, if the owners of the property could have 
trusted the persons about there. In one case in particular, a crowd 
went into a building that was already burning, at very considerable 
danger to themselves, and removed the goods. After attempting in vain 
to find some one who had authority there, it was done by private 
individuals. 

Q. What did you think of the conduct of the police during the night? 

A. As I told you, I was in that part near Pearl street. I don't re- 
member seeing a policeman. Of course, one might have escaped my 
notice, but at one time, in reference to the building I speak of, 1 looked 
for a policeman for some few minutes and didn't see one. After that 
the subject occurred to ray mind, and I didn't see any down there. Of 
course, I can't say what number were there. Tliose firemen who were 
not omplo3'ed at their engines were not assuming the otPiee of police in 
any way at that part of the fire ; that is, they were not attempting to 
save goods from the buildings nor attempting to keep the crowd out of 
clanger, but simply looking at the fire. 

Q. (By Mr. Codb.) When you reached the scene of the fire, at 
quarter before eight, did you observe any fire apparatus at work? 

A. Yes, sir. 



4G1 

Q. How many engines were there ? 

A. I didn't count the engines. I went through Kingston street, and 
went down the first street behind the building wiiich was on fire, and got 
a view of it there. There was an engine on tlie corner of that streefe 
when I got there already working very well. There was another at the 
corner of Kingston and Summer streets, and there were one or two in 
Summer street at that time. 

Q. Did you see any hose carriages? 

A. I didn't take notice. 

Q. Did you see any ladders? 

A. I didn't see any, but they might have been there without my seeing 
them, because I wasn't taking any particular note of them. I thought 
in the early part of the fire the crowd seemed to impede the movements 
of the firemen. It was a little boisterous ; the boys would get up a cry 
that an engine was coming, make a rush, and the people were in danger 
of being trampled upon. I didn't see that elsewhere. The crowd in 
other parts of the fire were very orderly. I didn't see any cases of 
stealing except where the building was evidently on the point of burning ; 
then the people would go in and take the goods. 

Q. Did you see any firemen take any goods from the stores? 

A. No, sir. I saw the firemen carrying oflf boots and shoes. I didn't 
see them take them from the inside of any store ; they might have taken 
them when they were thrown out. In regard to the police, I saw the 
police arresting men near City Hall, who were carrying off boots, as I 
was going home, but there was no attempt to stop plundering on the 
spot. 

WILLIAM G. RUSSELL, sworn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) At what time did you reach the fire? 

A. I reached it, I should say, about half an hour after the second 
alarm was given ; that is, I went as far as the front of Trinity Church. 
That was the nearest I went to it. 

Q. Did you notice whether the fire had crossed Summer street at that 
time? 

A. It had crossed Summer, and had crossed Kingston street. 

Q. How long did you remain watching the fire in different places? 

A. I stood about there, for perhaps an hour, and then went down on 
the northerly side of the fire into Winthrop square. 

Q. Will you state any facts 5'ou saw worthy of notice? 

A. I don't think there is anything that I saw that will be of use to the 
Commission. Possibly, from my position when I first saw the fire, I was 
not a good judge whether or not more effort could have been made to 
check it upon the westerly side of Kingston street, but the judgment I 
formed was, that that was neglected ; that is, there appeared to be no ef- 
fort to put out the fire when it first canght, or when it was but slightly 
developed, on the western side of Kingston street. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) How was it on the opposite corner, — the corner 
of Otis street? 

A. That I didn't see, so much. I stood on the northerly side of Sum- 
mer street most of the time, so that I could see diagonally across. 1 no- 



462 



ticerl at one time two streams thrown from the house on the westerly side 
of Kingston street, next to the corner store, into the building where the 
fire originated, which, it appeared to me, might have been much better 
directed to the westerly side of Kingston street, where the fire was catch- 
ing and spreading ; but there may have been good reason why it could 
not be. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick,) The fire did not spread up Kingston street, 
did it? 

A. It crossed Kingston street and came up Summer. I meaut the 
store at the corner of Kingston and Summer streets. 

Q. The unfinished store? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Did it seem to you at first that the fire was likely to get beyond 
the control of the firemen? 

A. I saw no reason why it should, at first. 

Q. How soon did it look so? 

A. As soon as it crossed to Otis street and spread down towards "Win- 
throp square, I thought it was to be a very serious fire, and went home 
■with ray daughter, whom I had with me, because I thought I would 
come back alone and stay longer than she would like to. 

LAWRENCE CURTIS, sworn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) At what time did you reach the fire? 

A. Not later than twenty minutes of eight. I left Charles street 
about half-past seven. The fire had not crossed Summer street when I 
first noticed that there was going to be a very serious fire. It was then 
confined to the corner building, and every now and then, as parts of the 
building fell in, large sheets of flame flew out and across the street. 
Then I began to notice that the flag-staff that stuck up from the front 
of Mr. Gray's building opposite — the first one that caught on the other 
side — began to burn with the heat of the fire, although no flames 
reached it. That must have been twenty minutes after I got there, I 
should think. Then the wooden cornices on the roof began slowly to 
catch fire. At one part I should say tlie flames spread more than two 
yards in length. It burned very slowly, apparently attracting little 
notice from the department, who were pumping vigorously into the solid 
flames, that notliing could control. No attention was paid to this build- 
ing. 1 don't say they could have reached it, because it was so high up. 
I doubt if any water could have been brought to bear on this point, on 
account of its lieight. 

Q. You speak of the building at the corner of Otis? 

A. I am not familiar with the streets, but it was the building directly 
opposite the corner which first took fire. 

Q. The John C. Gray estate? 

A. I think so. I tliink it was the same estate where Wm. Gray's 
oflfiice was before the fire ; the same building where Wheelwright, Ander- 
son & Go's olfice was. Tlien I was in the crowd, and came across 
Mr. Iligginson, of Lee, Higginson «fe Co. I remember his noticing 
that the firemen did not seem to be doing much. I said, if I was a 
fireman I should not know what to do ; because it seemed as if nothing 



463 

could possibly be done. Then we decided to take a turn round the fire 
and see how far it would go. We walked through Arch or Hawley 
street, and got into Winthrop square. There Mr. Higginson remarked to 
me, he thought that whole building was doomed, and the fire would burn 
through to Beebe's oflice, and A. T. Stewart & Go's, on the front of 
Winthrop square. We then walked through, round the other side, and 
got behind the fire, back through Summer street, and back to, I think, 
Bedford street. There the fire was apparently marching along towards 
a lot of low tenement-houses, of not more than two stories. Before it 
got to them, there was one very high building which did burn, and 
the fire seemed to stop there. I went there this afternoon with a view 
to look at the ground again, and I think what saved those buildings was 
the lowncss of them, and the tall building; the tall brick wall that is 
now standing apparently acted as a screen to those buildings. If one 
of them had caught, I don't see why it would not have burned to the 
Old Colon}' depot. The street is very narrow, and the houses are not 
high. I think two or three stories are the average. 

Then I went through Chauncy street again to where I first was, and 
there the fire was already under no control whatever. 

Q. In Chauncy street? 

A. In Summer street. There was nothing to be done. 

Q. You think nothing could be done at that point? 

A. I should say not. There, as early as eleven o'clock that night, 
people began to say freely , they ought to resort to blowing up build- 
ings. 

Q. Do you know anything about the blowing up of buildings? 

A. Nothing whatever. I was down on State street. 

Q. Did you go to the Mayor's ? 

A. I did not go to the Ma3'or's. 

Q. Was there anything further that you noticed ? 

A. I was on duty at the Union Safe Deposit Vaults until about two 
o'clock on Sunda}', so I did not have many opportunities. As soon as 
State street began to appear to be in danger, I went there, and did not 
leave, bej^ond going to the head of Devonshire street, to look down and 
see the extent of the fire as it came nearer and nearer. 

Q. Are you employed there? 

A. Yes, sir, I am a clerk in the oflflce. 

Q. What was there to be done there Sunday? 

A. Nothing but to stand at the door and persuade depositors, who 
were afraid of their securities being burned up, that everything was 
safe, and the vault could stand anything that might occur to it. 

Q. There were some loud demands? 

A. Pretty loud ; but I said then, and have had occasion to say since, 
that I was very much surprised at the moderation that was generally 
shown. There were a few rabid cases ; but generally, moderation was 
shown, and great firmness. 

Q. There was firmness inside? 

A. Yes, sir, there was. Some of the men said, they had seen the 
fire, and had driven in ten or twelve miles, and would feel better if their 
boxes were in their pockets. All I could say was, there was nothing 



464 



to be done, and the vaults would not be opened. Many of them, as 
soon as they heard that, were satisfied. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) I was told that it entered into your plans, as a 
last resort, to have water in the vaults. Was that part of your plans? 

A. That I am not familiar with. 

Q. AVhen you reached the place where the fire was, did you notice 
anything about the fire apparatus ; how much there was there? 

A. No, sir ; I did not. 

Q. Did you notice some ? 

A. I noticed some, certainly ; and I noticed at a comparatively early 
part of the evening, I should say, four or five streams playing into the 
building then on fire, but I didn't notice then any attempt to cut off the 
fire by heading it off. They always seemed to be behindhand ; one 
building behind. 

Q. What part of the building seemed on fire when you first arrived? 

A. At first the building seemed to be burning in the middle, upon the 
roof, and then later on, the whole thing fell in, and all the flame came 
out and shot right across the street. Huge volumes of flame would 
fly out as soon as anything fell inside. 

Q. Was it practicable for any one to stand between that building and 
the one on the other side of Summer street? 

A. Yes, sir ; all the firemen were at work there, directly opposite. 

Q. How soon were j'ou there after the alarm was given? 

A. I don't think I was more than ten minutes after the alarm was 
given. I was in Charles street, near wliere the engine is, and I started 
when I saw the engine start, and walked leisurely to the corner of Charles 
street, and, as soon as I saw the magnitude of the fire, ran all the rest of 
the way. 

Q. While you were there did it become too hot to remain? 

A. No, sir, it didn't. 

Q. You think the fire took on the opposite side of Summer street 
higher than an engine could reach from tlie street? 

A. I should say so, most decidedl3\ I think one instance that showed 
how valuable it is for streams to be played from neighboring houses, 
instead of from the street, was the fire at liand & Avery's. I was inside 
the lines and gave particular attention to it. They had a stream plaj-ed 
from this side, — from the Dock-square side, — and they had five streams 
or eiglit streams playing from the different windows of the hotel just in 
the rear of the building. They did great execiitioa. All the water was 
brought to bear directly on the fire and into the fire. It ought to be the 
object as soon as a fire is discovered to get some stream of water to play 
on to it and not up to it. 

Q. Was there any point in Summer street from which a hose could 
play out of a high window on to the front of that building, op[)osite where 
the fire originated? 

A. Well, at first they could have done so from this same building that 
took fire first on the other side of Summer street. 

Q. I mean to the front of that? 

A. No, sir, I should say not. 

Q. What other points could it have been watered from? 



4G5 

A. I don't think it could have been watered at all. Of course there 
are certain positions whore such things would fail. 

Q. You see no way where the department could have done better at 
that juncture? 

A. No, sir, I don't say that the department is to blame in any way. 

Q. Was not that a very critical point — tiie crossing of Summer street? 

A. I think that was decidedly the critical point. 

Q. Could an}' amount of apparatus, if the apparatus had been there 
sooner, have prevented that? 

A. I don't think I am competent to answer that. 

Q. Did the water that was poured into the building when you first ar- 
rived there, appear to have any effect? I mean into the building where 
the fire originated? 

A. Not the slightest ; any more than if it had been oil they were pour- 
ing in. 

Q. How many streams were pouring in when j'ou first arrived? 

A. I should say four or five, or shortly after I arrived. I can't say 
when I first arrived, because I do not remember ; but within a short time, 
I should say there were four or five in Summer street. 

Q. Did you see any ladders placed against any of the buildings? 

A. I do not remember any ladders being used. 

GEORGE SNELL, recalled. 

Q. (By Mr. Edssell.) Have you examined the elevator at Mr. 

'Wellington's? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. What do 5'ou think of the working of it? 

A. I like it very much indeed, sir. 

Q. Is there any trouble about the working of it? 

A. None at all that I can see. It is very simple. I like it better than 
that I saw the model of. It is simple. 

Q. Is it adapted to general use? 

A. I should say it was, decidedly. It might be made more fire-proof 
than it is. That is to say, it might be made to fill up the surface more 
completel}' than it does there. It was not intended for that purpose, but 
it can he made so. 

Q. That is a matter of detail ? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. It was designed chiefly for security of life and limb? 

A. Yes, sir ; so no man or any goods should fall more than one story 
at a time. 

Q. You consider it a perfect protection against accident? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. And it would retard a fire? 

A. It could be made so as to almost entirely retard a fire at a very 
slight expense, — the one they have there now. It is simply to go 
straight against the ropes and up within about four inches from the wall. 
It may be very easily cut round the rope and made to touch the wall. 
It is perfectly simple ; they could do it themselves very easily. 

Q. It might be made of sheet iron ? 



466 

A. It might be made of sheet-iron or covered with tin as it is, and 
that portion that was added to it to make it fit might be joined to the 
other by something elastic, — india-rubber, for instance, — so that there 
would be no draft through it at all, if that were necessary. 

Mr. "Wm. E. Perkins, member of the Common Council, appeared in 
obedience to a summons from the committee, but stated that he had no 
testimony to give which would be instructive to the Commission, and 
was not examined. 

S. B. ScHLESiNGER, Called in response to summons from the Commis- 
sion, and stating that he had no testimony to offer, was not sworn. He, 
however, made the following statement : — 

I do not feel that the fire was managed properly. I do not think that 
the fire was under any kind of control or system. There was no system 
about it. I did see a good many windows washed. I was about the fire 
all night, and thought there was a good deal of want of management, not 
to say mismanagement. I gave one of my teams to the Fire Department 
to help haul coal. A good many of the steamers did not have coal. Mr. 
Walko told me his building could certainly have been saved if they had 
had coal. He also said he could not get to his place in Summer street 
to get at his stock, because there was a crowd of spectators, and those 
who had business were not admitted. There were teams enough about 
on that night, and if there had been a proper system they would have 
had the military seize them and compel them to carry coal to save the 
buildings. So far as it strikes me, there was anj' amount of mismanage- 
ment. 

EDWARD S. PHILBRICK, sworn. 

I have been a Civil Engineer for twenty-five years ; for the last twa 
years have been Consulting Engineer for the Governor and Council, on 
the Hoosac Tunnel. I am familiar with the experience on the tunnel 
work from the beginning, where all sorts of explosives have been ap- 
plied with various success. The use of explosives is generally classified 
into two leading divisions, first, their use on projectiles from fire-arms ; 
and second, for blasting rock or tearing things in pieces. The nature of 
these processes is essentially different. For projecting missiles from 
fire-arms, an explosive is wanted which will not expend its whole power 
instantaneously, but will burn with a sustained force while the projectile 
is in the barrel, and follow it the whole length of the barrel. If the 
whole force of an explosive is exerted instantaneously in a fire-arm, it 
necessarily destroj^s the arm — bursts it. For blasting rock, and for blow- 
ing up walls or other structures, we do not want to project missiles ; it is 
rather to be avoided. We should rather have an explosive which has an 
instantaneous eftect, and the greatest destructive force possible. 

All explosives known in commerce except fulminates, are composed of 
carbon in different forms treated with nitric acid, this acid being the 
cheapest form of applying oxygen to promote the rapid combustion of car- 
bon without air. There is no form of gunpowder which is sutflciently 
instantaneous in its action to be so well adapted to blowing up walls and 



467 

structures as other forms of explosives. Various other forms have been 
tried, such as gun-cotton, and nitro-glycerine. The great drawback upon 
their use has been the liability to premature cxplobion. Nitro-glycerine, 
properly manufactured, has thus far been the best and safest material for 
that particular use. It is used very largely, and has been for years in 
the Hoosac Tunnel and various other mines, in the liquid form. Where 
used continually from day to day and week to week, there is no valid 
objection to using it in a liquid form ; but where kept on store for occa- 
sional use, the liquid is subject to deterioration and leakage, and of 
course great risk would be incurred from leakage. In order to avoid this 
objection, various substances have been experimented upon as a vehicle 
or sponge for carrying the glj^cerine in the form of powder. Those have 
been known under the names of dualin, dynamite, and litho-fracteur, — 
the French name for a similar substance, A like compound has been 
used in the California mines foi' years, under the name of giant powder. 
Perhaps that is the safest known form for using glycerine for general 
purposes. It is a form of dynamite, or litho-fracteur, and made in or 
near New York. It has been recently introduced into the New York mar- 
ket by eastern manufacturers. It is now used in the Hoosac Tunnel quite 
largely, under the name of giant powder. It is essentially the same 
thing as dynamite ; it consists of infusorial earth, with a certain amount 
of glycerine held in it as in a sponge. 

Infusorial earth is an inert, neutral powder, incombustible, a sort of 
marl, serviceable only as a sponge for carrying glycerine. Under this 
form, or as a liquid, the explosive can be freely burned, if in the open air, 
without any explosion. Within a few days, twenty-five pounds of this 
powder in cartridges were lying in a box in the Hoosac Tunnel, from 
which a blaster was to take some cartridges for charging his holes. He 
had a miner's lamp on his head, and as he stooped down a drop of burning 
oil dropped from the lamp on his capon to those cartridges, and the mass 
flamed up like a mass of pitch, but there was no explosion. It burned 
about five minutes with a great flame. The explosive power of this sub- 
stance is claimed to be about ten times that of an equal weight of gun- 
powder. It will not explode by being dropped or'thrown or jammed, 
overthrown in a wagon, or in a collision of a train of cars. I think it by 
far a safer material than gunpowder, and much better as an exploder for 
destructive action ; but, like any other exploder, it should never be used 
except by trained hands. The best way of exploding it is by primers 
prepared for the purpose by the manufacturers, composed of caps like 
percussion caps, in which is inserted fulminating powder similar to that 
used in percussion caps, but in greater quantity. The sharp shock of the 
explosion of the fulminate in the cap explodes all the oil that is in the 
cartridge in an instant ; and not only in that cartridge, but in all neigh- 
boring cartridges, which may have no connection, except proximity. It 
is difficult to explode it without a certain amount of confinement. To 
blow down a wall, the cartridge should be put in a piece of gas tube, or 
something of the kind, to confine it. It could be carried about and kept 
in that form with one end open. The primer could be inserted in a fuse 
in the end of the tube, and a cap could be screwed on in a minute and 
be ready for use. Without that confinement, the gases are evolved as 
from a mass of pitch or turpentine without explosion, but with the con- 



468 

finement, the incipient combustion causes a great pressure of the gases 
within the confining vessel. That pressure, with the heat combined, 
produces an instantaneous explosion of the whole mass. The cap used 
as a primer is easily fired by a fuse made for the purpose, similar to the 
common blasting fuse. For general use, it is much the readiest way of 
firing them, but for use in the tunnel, tliey are generally fired by elec- 
tricity, the wires being a permanent attachment to the side of the tunnel, 
and a battery being located at a fixed point. That is the most con- 
venient and safest method of firing tliem in such places, but for portable 
use, the burning fuse would be much more proper. Tlie cost of this 
article — the market price — is now about one dollar a pound, and as a 
pound of it is supposed to exert, and apparently does exert, the force of 
ten pounds of gunpowder, it is of course much more portable, and a 
more compact material for storage and conveyance. As it will never 
explode from any of the cartridges falling or being set on fire, till con- 
fined, it is infinitely safer than gunpowder. The inventors claim it does 
not deteriorate if it is kept where the oil will not soak out of the pow- 
der. If it is kept in water, the water displaces the oil, the oil floats out 
of the powder, and the water take its place. Glycerine is an oily sub- 
stance ; it is the best article in the market that I know of for blowing up 
buildings. 

Q. How would you apply it to the blowing up of a building? 

^. It ought to be kept in these cartridges ready for the purpose, and 
perhaps enclosed in gas pipe, for the sake of confinement ; and to save 
time in applying it in an emergency, of course the gas pipes could always 
be kept on it, open at one end, till primed. 

Q. Where would you put the gas pipe? 

A. I should put the cartridge right against the side of the wall you 
mean to blow out ; scarcely any conliuement is necessary beyond that 
of the gas tube. I have seen five pounds of it exploded in a case on the 
surfat^e of a boulder about the size of this table, shattering it into small 
blocks, without anydrdling; simply exploding it on the surface. At 
the same time, if 3'-ou touched a match to it, without the confinement of 
the case, it would burn up harmlessly. 

Q. How long has it been known? 

A. It has been used in California in the mines for some years. They 
have l)eon improving upon it. 

Q. Was the use of glycerine in this form discovered there? 

A. No; nitro-glyccriue and this dynamite wore first invented in Ger- 
many. Noble invented the glycerine, and these various forms have 
been experimented upon in Germany. It was introduced in the form of 
dynamite in the early part of the Franco-Prussian war with great eflect 
in destroyi'ig bridges and other siruclures by a mililar}'- corps. 

Q. By the Prussians only? 

A. I don't know about the French. They had it in the Prussian 
army as their chief exploder for that purpose. It is good for nothing 
for lire-arms ; it destroys the arms. It is very similar to dualin, but 
dualin is made by soaking gl^-cerine iu sawdust, with a little of other 
ingredients perluips, and is not such a permanent compound as a neutral 
6i)ongc like this infusorial earth. The sawdust with the oil combined is 
apt to cause fermentation, and either evaporates the oil in time by fer- 



469 

mentation or explodes it. There is a risk of exploding it. It was dualin 
that caused the trouble at the Worcester Junction. Dualin as an ex- 
plosive, aside from the risk of keeping it and handling it, is essentially 
the same thing as this dynamite. 

Q. Can it be used for purposes that this powder cannot be used for? 

A. No ; I think it has no superior merits, and has not the advantage 
of being kept without danger for a long time. It is subject to fermenta- 
tion and spontaneous explosion, — subject to that risk where the dyna- 
mite is not. The only precaution in keeping dynamite is to keep it in 
vessels where the oil will not soak out of it. It is put up by the manu- 
facturers in paper cartridges which can be cut in two with a knife. 
They are made of various sizes, adapted to the different sized holes for 
blasting. They are from six inches to a foot long, and are put up in 
boxes. 

Q. In preparing it for use against an emergency, your suggestion 
would be to have it in gas pipes? 

A. That seems to me the cheapest form of confining it ready for use ; 
but I should keep one end open till primed. 

Q. How large a pipe? 

A. So that a cartridge would fill it compactly. It ought to be stowed 
compactly in the pipe, one end closed with a screw-cap, and the other 
end with a cap fitted to screw on with a little hole for the fuse to come 
through. I should on no account have the fuse kept in it, because the 
fulminate is a very unstable compound, and liable to explosion. 

Q. How long a pipe would you have? . 

A. I should have different sizes, according to the different charges it 
is found advisable to use. I have never had any experience in blowing 
down walls. The officers who are to use such an explosive ought to 
have some previous experience before attempting to use it on occupied 
buildings. The present ruins would form a capital place to experiment 
with it without harm. 

Q. Is it generally known ? 

A. It is known among contractors and among blasting men pretty 
generally', now, I think, and ever since the French war it has been 
known to all scientific and military men, and it has been used more or 
less in California for two or thre? years in the mines. It has grown rap- 
idly there in use, from its merits. That degree of safety has been 
attained by careful experiment, I suppose, during the Califoruia use ; at 
anj' rate, it is the result of experiment. 

Q. If I understand you, j'ou say this substance spread over the sur- 
face of a rock will blast it? 

A. Not in a loose form. Il^is difficult to produce the explosive action 
when it is loose. It must be compacted in a tight case or tube to make 
it explode readily. 

Q. What do you do with the tube? You do not insert it in the rock? 

A. Lay it on top of tiie rock and it will explode it; but it will take 
perhaps ten times as much to break a rock in that way as if inserted in 
the rock with a drilled hole. The economical way to blast a rock would 
be to drill a small hole, and put in the charge. I simply mentioned that 
to show what power it has when exploded on the surface, but in case of 



470 

blowing down buildings, we cannot stop to drill the walls. It must be 
put on the surface, and you must use it at a waste, therefore. 

Q. How do you say it compares with gunpowder? 

A. Ten pounds would be equal to one hundred pounds of gunpowder. 

Q. The application of it seems to be very much simpler thaa powder. 
How would 3'ou use powder for throwhig down a building? 

A. I have no experience at all. The testimony that we have received 
here has informed me more than I had before learned, but it has beea 
very various and conflicting. Sifting it down from my own reasoning 
and sense, I think the most rapid burning powder should be used. 

Q. And that should be confined? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. What do you think of the statement, that having but one head open, 
where 3'ou have half-a-dozen or more kegs, is just as good as more? 

A. I have known a powder magazine to blow up where one hundred 
kegs have exploded, and no particle of a keg ever found again. That 
was done in Vermont. I do not think there is any waste of time in the 
explosion passing from one keg to another where a whole keg explodes. 
I think it is instantaneous, but I think the powder rarely burns all up 
when it explodes in that yvay. The first keg you fire smashes the other 
kegs, and the explosion runs from one to the other almost instan- 
taneously, but there is a great deal of powder blown ofi" into the air and 
wasted. Glycerine never blows itself away. "When you explode it, it 
all flashes into gas at once ; it is ail consumed. 

Q. Of all the preparations, j'ou say that this which is popularly known 
as giant powder is the best for tliis purpose? 

A. Yes, sir. There are two qualities made, Nos. 1 and 2, possessing 
diff'erent force ; No. 1 is one dollar a pound ; No. 2, fifty cents a pound. 
Although the No. 2 claims to have three-quarters of the force of the 
No. 1, 1 think you want concentrated action, the greatest possible power, 
for this purpose, and there would be no economy in using No. 2 quality. 
In blasting rocks, it is often found more economical to use the cheaper 
material, because the rock is easily drilled, and a little additional drilling 
will enable you to use the cheap powder. 

Q. Have you ever had anything to do with torpedoes? 

A. No, only in exploding the glycerine charges. They always use a 
little torpedo to explode glj^cerine, as you do in exploding this powder. 
Gl3^cerine will burn slowly. I can pour a pint of it on this table, and 
light it with a match, and it will burn like tar or turpentine, without any 
explosion ; but if I drop some of it on the hearth, and happen to drop 
the end of a poker or shovel on it, it will explode the whole mass and 
blow me out of the room. A mechanical shock of heat and pressure 
combined is necessary to explode it in uuy form. 

Q. You say if you use a match to it on this table there would be no 
explosion, but if you struck it, it would cause an explosion ? 

A. The liquid form of glycerine is liable to that risk ; the powder 
form is not ; that is, if it is an inert mineral powder like the dynamite, 
composed of an earth. Dualin is not an inert powder ; it is a carbon 
sponge, — sawdust — and is more liable to explosion from a fall or 
shock. But on burning this dynamite, the powder is left. You burn it 
over an open plate or dish, and it leaves a mass of ashes equal to the 



471 

'whole of the powder. There is nothing burned but the oil. If I take a 
handful of the powder and put it on an anvil and strike it with a ham- 
mer, it will explode a small quantity of it directly around the contact of 
the hammer and the anvil. The rest will not explode, but will burn. If 
I pour liquid gl3-cerine on the anvil, — a spoonful of it, — and strike the 
wet spot with a hammer, the whole will explode, and perhaps blow the 
hammer out of my hand. 

Q. Where is this made? 

A. It is made in New Jersey and in California. I have the address 
of the manufacturer's agents in New York. 

Q. In what form do you usually buy it? 

A. In these cartridges, done up in brown paper ready for use. 

Q. IIow about transportation? 

A. The cartridges are packed in boxes, and the railroad companies 
.and other carriers take it at first-class rates. 

Q. Passing under its pi'oper name? 

A. Yes, sir, it is known. They did not take it until it was satis- 
factorily proved to them that it was a safe material, and that if these 
cartridges were set fire to there was no harm that would come except as 
combustible material. The cartridges are made for an inch hole, a 
three-quarter inch hole, or a two-inch hole. 

Q. What quantity does a box contain? 

A. They are about as big as a candle-box ; I don't know how many 
pounds. 

Q. Is it very heavy ? 

A. No, it is not so heavy as sand, but it is heavier than flour. It is a 
little heavier than the same bulk of gunpowder. 

Adjourned to Wednesday, Dec. 18. 



1^9. 



FIFTEENTH DAY. 

Wednesday, Dec. 18th, 
DANIEL H. JOHNSON, sworn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) What is j'^our oflScial position? 

A. I am Superintendent of the Water Works of Salem and Beverly. 

Q. Were you at the Boston fire ? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. What time did you come in? 

A. I came right at the corner of Milk and Congress streets, say at fif- 
teen minutes past one o'clock. 

Q. Can you tell us anything you saw that night worthy of notice, or 
any fact that j'ou observed ? 

A. I hardly know just whatpoints to speak of. 

Q. Anything in regard to the management of the fire, the working of 
the engines, the working of the hydrants, or the connection of the hose 
with the hydrants. 

A. Although Superintendent of the Water Works, I am foreman of a 
steamer in Salem, that is held in reserve, in case the Water Works give 
out ; and that engine I brought to Boston that night. I came to the cor- 
ner of Milk and Congress streets with the engine. I was in business in 
Boston four years at the corner of Bath and Milk streets ; and, knowing 
no one to report to, 1 went myself to the hydrant in Bath street, with 
the engine, and ran her hose some seven hundred feet up Pearl street, 
say to the corner of Sturgis place and Pearl street. But all that we could 
do was merely to delay the flames moving down Pearl street. There was 
no water, of course, in the rear in Congress sti-eet, and it was perfectly 
plain to me that it was only a matter of time when it would burn down 
that side of Pearl street, and we kept taking off sections of hose until we 
got down to the corner of Pearl street, and the fire then had reached the 
corner of Congress and Water streets, and it appeared as if we should be 
cut ofi"from getting out of Bath street that way ; and I knew myself that 
the nearest hydrant was in Lindall street, and I moved the engine to that 
point, and then ran her hose out to the corner of Congress and Water 
streets, and there we did very good execution. 

We afterwards moved from this hydrant to the cistern at the corner of 
Broad and State streets, and ran our hose up Lindall street. 

Q. How long did you remain ? 

A. We remained until two o'clock Sunday afternoon. 

Q. While you were there, what did you think of the conduct of the 
firemen ? 

A. The firemen are usually very noisy and boisterous ; but they got 
that all out of them. They settled right down into work ; and if the de- 
lay by blowing up the buildings, which required us to move from Lindall 
street, had not prevented us, and we had not been obliged to move from 



473 

Lindall street, I would be willing to give an opinion that the fire rouldl 
never have got by the Mercantiie Agency, which is on ihe corner of Con- 
gress and Water streets. 

I want to say in relation to the blowing np of buildings, that in my 
business as Superintendent of Water Works, we have had a great deal 
to do with blasting ; and a number of times when all the other companies 
were ordered out of that street, I was satisfied with having three or four, 
or eight or ten, brick walls between me and the explosion, — I was satis- 
fied that I need not leave that street, and I never left it, 

I saw that the effect of blowing up all the buildings that were blown, 
np there was very disastrous indeed. When the fine new building where 
the Shawmut Bank was, opposite the Mercantile Agency, was blown up, 
every pane of glass in that iVeestone building on the opposite corner, m 
every window of every story, was broken out, and also in every story of 
every building about' there. I consider that if Ihe glass could have re- 
mained, it would have been a great preventive against the fire spreading 
as it did. 

I can only say that the manner in which they blew up buildings about 
there certainly was a failure. 

Q. In what respect? 

A. In this respect : — that in no case did they level a building, so 
that we could put in water. upon it to extinguish the fire. 

Q. How many did you see blown up? 

A. I saw five buildings blown up. 

Q. Did 3'ou see others after they were blown up, besides those five? 

A. No, sir ; I never left that neighborhood, and only know about the 
blowing up of buildings in that neighborhood. 

Q. In your opinion did that blowing up do any' good? 

A. It was one of the chief causes of the fire's spreading in that local- 
ity. I went up into these buildings to see if there were any points that 
we could make by playing in other localities there, and I found that every 
pane of glass in every window from the bottom to the top of those build- 
ings was blown out. 

Q. Aside from the blowing up, what is your opinion of the general 
management of the fire? 

A. The trouble about my telling about the general management of the 
fire was this, that I did not know pei'sonally any Boston Engineer in the- 
whole time that I was there, not being personally acquainted with them. 
They were about there ; but seeing what we were doing, and the manner 
in which we were trying to put out the fire, they never gave us an}' or- 
ders to change our hose. 

Capt. Damrell came around once when we were in Pearl street, and 
once at the corner of Congress and Water streets, and once in Lin- 
dall street, and paid some compliment to us, — that we were doing well. 
I don't know any of your Boston Engineers. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) You didn't see any of them to know them? 

A. No, sir, 

Q. You received no orders from them ? 

A. No, sir. I received no orders that I know of from any BostoR 
Engineer. 

Q. Then you went on to the fire-ground on your own hook? 



474 

A. Yes, sir, — because I knew where that hydrant was. I have no 
doubt that they were about there ; but when they saw that our hose was 
connected with that h)'drant, tbe}'^ didn't give any orders. We received 
orders once from the Chief on Lindall street. He asked us to change 
our position, and if we could not go through a stove and play in a certain 
direction, and we said, " Certainly," and followed his directions. 

Q. How did you get fuel? 

A. I was satisfied that it wanted a little energy to do the thing, and I 
went myself personally to State street. I found the policeman who had 
ehaige of that matter and told him that we were getting out of fuel, 
and he said they would send us a cart-load of coal. 

Tliere was a great scarcity of hydrant keys, and when we could not 
stenl one, wewo-uld get some one to go and shut our h3'drant off. 

Q. Would you go to some fireman whom you happened to meet? 

A. Yes, sir. I was acquainted with one or two firemen here in Bos- 
ton, and they were very kind to come and shut our hydrant off when we 
wanted it. 

You will see, that in our position, located in Bath street, playing up 
Pearl street, tbe fire working down and we delaying it, it was all plain 
work with us, and then in moving to the next lu^drant, of course I moved 
on ray own responsibility, for I knew where it was. I think the Boston 
Engineers about there were satisfied that we Were doing well. 

Q. Did 3'our hose fit the hj'drant? 

A. Yes, sir. I would say that, in my position as Superintendent of 
Water Works, I am a little move familiar with your hydrants here than 
most people are ; and I went back to the house and got two couplings to 
fit your hydrants, and brought them with me. If I had not brought 
those up here, I don't know that I could have been of any service. I did 
not know of any place where our couplings would fit. I don't know what 
cisterns there are about there that we could play from. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) What is the difference between the Boston 
hydrants and the Salem hydrants? 

A. Many of the Boston hydrants have a two-inch thread, while ours 
have a two-and-one-half inch thread. As Superintendent of the Salem 
Water Works, I followed the Boston thread on our works. I made a 
point of that, because I thought that if ever the Boston apparatus came 
to Salem, I thought I would like to get them to screw their hose into om* 
hydrants. So we followed Boston upon the Salem Water Works. 

Q. Do you use the same hydrant in Salem that is used in Boston? 

A. No, sir ; we use the Lowry hydrant, such as they use in the High- 
lands. We have 320 Lowry hydrants in Salem, The town of Beverly 
has such hydrants as 3'ours, except that theirs are a post hydrant, and 
3'ours are what are called the flush hydrant. 

Q. What are the comparative merits of the Lowry hydrant and the one 
that we use, — the difference in the amount of water they can deliver in 
a certain time? 

A. I would say that all our hydrants are right on the main p'pe, and 
we can play from any hydrant, or we can take four or five h3'^drants right 
in the same locality, and we can play six streams from every h3drant 
and play them from -SO to 100 feet. In the most thickly-settled parts of 
Salem, — say around the City Hall, — we have played forty-two streams 



475 

of water just by putting on our pipes. "We had an exhibition of that 
kind, and Capt. Damrell was down. We played forty-two streams right 
over any building that we have there. 

Q. What is the size of your mains ? 

A. Our main pipe is 20-inch. Then in every one of our principal 
streets we have eitlier an 8, 10 or 12-inch pipe. 

Q. There is nothing smaller than an 8-inch? 

A. Nothing smaller than an 8-inch pipe in the principal streets. 

Q. Do 3'ou have the Lowry hydrants upon an 8-inch pipe? 

A. Yes, sir ; they give plenty of water. In speaking of these, I would 
say, that when we put a Lowry hydrant on a 6-inch pipe, we have it fed 
in two ways, so that it is really fed by an 8-inch pipe. 

Q. How is that done? 

A. Your hydrants lead by a 4-inch pipe from the main to the sidewalk. 
By putting a hydrant in immediately upon the street, it is fed down the 
street and up the street at the same time, being situated on the main pipe 
itself. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) Is there any objection to placing the Lowry hy- 
drant in the street on account of the projection it makes in the street. 
Do you find any such objection in your paved sti'eets? 

A. Not in the least, sir. There is not a complaint in Salem about it, 
not even now in the winter time. The Water Works take care of these 
Lowry hydrants. We make a large dish-hole about them. We don't 
dig a hole which would be just large enough for a horse to step into, but 
we make a large hole, and grade it off" carefully all around the hydrant, 
so that it is just like these cradle-holes which you have here in the streets 
in Boston where there are no hydrants in the street ; and 3'ou can never 
break a sleigh-runner or a carriage-wheel by passing over those holes. 
We have had no trouble from either runners or wheels. We have nar- 
row streets, and a good deal of travel, both heavy and light, over the 
main streets. 

Q. Did 3'Our men go upon the roofs where you were at work and play 
from the roofs ? 

A. No, sir. There were no ladders used this side of Sturgis place to 
State street, where we were playing — no ladders used at all. 

Q. Was there any opportunity to go upon the roof and play from the 
roof? 

A. The trouble with me was that I belonged to the Fire Department, 
and went there to put the fire out ; and really, outside of m^"- own engine, 
I could not say. I inquired about the others. 

Q. Did your men in any instance take hose upon the roof? 

A. No, sir. We went into the third stories of buildings. We have 
a very powerful Manchester engine, and could play upon almost any roof 
there is about there. We run our steam up a good deal higher than you 
do here in Boston, so that we could command the roofs even of the 
Mercantile Agency building, and cover the roof entirely. 

Q. Was there any occasion for your men to go upon the roofs? 

A. No, sir. Because in Pearl street it was a foregone conchision that 
there was no use to go up on a roof to fight the fire. It was sure to go 
down that street, and we were to make a stand at the foot of Pearl and 
Milk streets. 



476 

Q. I will call your attention to the interview with Capt. Damrell — 
■when was that? 

A. It was of peculiar impoitance to me, so that I made a minute 
of it at the time. It was Sept. 23d, 1870. Capt. Damrell was invited 
to Salem on a parade of the Salem Fire Department, and after the 
review of the department, he made some inquiiy about our Water 
"Works, and finding that we had such large mains in all our streets, I 
think he was surprised that we should go to such expense in running 
such a large pipe. He said he would like to have a trial of our hydrants. 
The Chief Engineer wanted to know if I would take some of the Water- 
Works men and go and show Capt. Damrell the operation of our hydrants, 
and I at once put this hydrant to work and showed him how quickly we 
could put the water on and play six streams of ■water from eighty to 
one hundred feet. There were some very poor nozzles among them. 
We did not have any selection of nozzles. We played from eighty to 
one hundred feet right over the building. This is the remark Capt. Dam- 
rell made. He says, " Capt. Johnson, there is in Boston a locality 
bounded by Bedford, Broad, State and Washington streets, that has simply 
a twelve-inch pipe running round that territory, with a sixteen-inch 
pipe running down Milk and up Pearl, and the rest of these streets have 
nothing but six and four-inch pipes." Says he, " They were laid twenty 
years ago." And he said I must certainly know something about the 
matter of thg rusting up of pipes. He said, " Probably those pipes are 
reduced by rust to one-third of their diameter, and I'ight in the heart of 
the city, where all our business is done, we have these small pipes, and of 
course a great scarcity of water, and in case of a large conflagration, I 
don't knovv what would become of us." I asked him if he had called the 
attention of the authorities to it, and he said that he had repeatedly. 

Q. What is your opinion about the reduction of the diameter of pipes 
by rust? 

A. We have another aqueduct in Salem and use iron pipes there, and 
I am familiar with it. We have pipes in Salem that have been laid 
twenty years that are nearly wholly obstructed by rust ; but our water 
in Salem has had a peculiarit}' which affects iron very badly indeed, more 
so than your water, because in the same ratio it would hardly seem as if 
an}' water could pass through them. 

Q. How large pipes are stopped up in that way? 

A. We have three and four-inch pipes. I would also say that I was 
verj'^ particular to observe our engine and water pressure at these differ- 
ent points. Being Superintendent of the Water Works it interested me. 
We never got at Bath or Lindall street more than eight or ten pounds 
water pressure. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) What should you expect? 

A. 1 should think it should be somewhere from forty to fifty there, where 
we got from eight to ten. There was a time when we did not have 
•water enough to run our engine ; we had to run her very slowly indeed. 



477 



> 



DANIEL B. LORD, sworn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) What is your position in the Fire Department 

of Salem ? 

A. Chief Engineer. 

Q. Did you come to the great fire in Boston? 

A. No, sir; I did not. I received a telegraphic despatch from the 
Chief Engineer of Boston. 

Q. At wljat time did you receive it? 

A. I received it, I think, somewhere about twenty minutes to eleven 
o'clock. 

Q. You sent an Assistant Engineer, did you? 

A. I think at first, when the despatch came, it was not dated. I got 
it from the Eastern Railroad, i. e., they sent it to the Police Station, and 
the marshal sent two policemen to my house. I was then just getting 
into bed, as some one rang the bell, and I spoke up rather loud (it was 
rather late, you know), and he says : " I have a despatch from Boston. 
There is a big fire, and your assistance is wanted." My wife was up, 
and I told her to open the door and let them in. I said, " You open 
the despatch and read, and I will tell you what to do while I am dress- 
ing." They read the despatch, as follows : — 

" Send all the engines yon can possibly spare, immediately. • 

(Signed) CIKEF ENGINEER DAMBELL." 

I said to one of them, " You start for the Eastern Depot to notify Mr. 
Glover that I want a train ready. The other one go to the Second 
Baptist Church, and ring the bell ; " and they started as quick as a wink, 
and I took my coat and hat and started for the steamer. The bell was 
ringing by the time I got out of the house. When I got the steamers 
out, I found a number of the department there. The Engineer, was 
there, and asked who was going. I said, " I detail you, Mr. Osborne, 
and you, Mr. Woodbury, of Steamers No. 1 and 2." 

Before the horses got out, they took the drag-ropes, and away they 
went for the depot. That brought out the whole department to the 
depot, and all the hose-carriages, — six in number. 

Mr, Glover made his appearance, and wanted to know what was 
going, and I told him. Then he had to start his other cars upon the 
north side and get an engine and cars that had just come in. We got 
what we could put upon those cars, and then I said, " We had better put 
on an extra one." As quick as he got those cars loaded, we had 
another one read}'. They proceeded, but were detained in Lynn — be- 
cause they had an engine there which they wished to send — three-quarters 
of an hour to help load that engine. Mr. Glover telegraphed to Bos- 
ton, the telegraph going through Lynn, that we were making prep- 
arations to go to Boston. I telegraphed to the Chief Engineer that I 
had sent two steamers, three hose-carriages an:l three Assistant Engineers. 
• Q. Give us the names of the Assistant Engineers. 

A. J. IL Bell, Josiah B. Osborne, and Ezra Woodbury. I telegraphed 
to the Chief Engineer what I had sent, and then waited at the depot, 
and got a telegram that they had arrived safely iu Boston, and that all 
was right. 



478 

Q. Did 3'ou use your horses tliat night? 

A. I did not use them that night, because there was such a large 
crowd there. 

Q. I mean in Salem. Didn't you use them in Salem? 

A. We used them in drawing, on Sunda}', after they came back. "We 
did not take them out. They were all harnessed. 

Q. You could not stop for them, could you? 

A. "VYe were so anxious, that I never made any arrangement about 
horses. The horses were sick some time. I alwaj's found that there was 
one pair ready in case we needed them ; but that night they were har- 
nessed, and were all ready, and came out of the door all ready to hitch 
on. But the men thought they could go it just as well without them, 
and it didn't make any difference. It was but a little distance, and waa 
down hill. 

EZEKIEL R. JONES, sworn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) You are superintendent of a division of the 
Water Works? 

A. Of the eastern division, yes, sir. 

Q. What are j'our general duties? 

A. To take the care and management of the practical part of the 
work, extensions, etc. 

Q. And of repairs ? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Were you out during the great fire? 

A. I was out from half-past nine until four that night. I was very 
weak that day and ought not to have gone, but the necessity of the case 
took me down there, and I stayed longer than I ought to. I was not out 
on Sunday. 

Q. Can 3'ou tell us about the relative merits of the Boston hydrants 
and the Lowry hydrants ? 

A. I think I can. That is, I have an opinion in regard to them. The 
Lowry hydrants are a much larger hydrant, being nine-inch capacity, — 
the barrel of them. 

Q. Nine-inch section? 

A. In diameter. The Boston hydrants are onl}'' three. The Lowry 
gives four outlets, sufficient for any four engines ; the Boston hydrant 
only for one engine. The Boston hydrants are placed on the sidewalk, 
and a branch taken from the main with a small-sized pipe to the hydrant ; 
the Lowry hydrants are set in the mawns, so it makes two or more, up to 
four, supplies to ahydi'ant. If wc put one on a pipe, it is supplied from 
each end. If we put them at the intersection of two pipes, it has four 
supplies, where a Boston hydrant, or even a Lowry hydrant on the side- 
walk, only has one supply. 

Q. The Boston hydrants are all at the end of a branch? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. What is the size of that branch? 

A. Four inches, formerly' ; now we put in six, and have for two years. 

Q. What is the size of those in the burned district? 

A. Four ; generally about four. 



479 

Q. "Within two years you have been putting in six-inch? 

A. Yes, sir ; but for the Lowry hydrants (they adopted them, and after 
first putting them in in Koxbury, thej' put them in in the sidewalk), 
we take a nine and twelve-inch branch. 

Q. In Roxbury are they put in tlie sidewalk? 

A. A portion of them were put in in the street as originall}'^ intended, 
in the first place, but there was some objection on the part of the Water 
Board to having them in the street, so tliey put them afterwards on the 
sidewalk. The few I put on the Fort-Hill district, I put in the street, — 
about five of them, I think. That is since the fire. I have laid some new 
pipes down there. I showed the Water Board what I considered the ad- 
vantages and the disadvantnges ; that is, the advantages of them in the 
street, and the disadvantages in the street. 

Q. What are your ideas on that point? 

A. There are four essential advantages in having them in the street 
to two disadvantages. In the first place, they are much cheaper. It is 
much more economical to have them in the street. They do not cost 
much more than half as much in the street as in the sidewalk. Then, ia 
the next place, they give a much larger supply of water. 

Q. Because they are applied directly to ihe main? 

A. Because they are applied directly to the main. It does not have 
to turn to go off on to the sidewalk. 

Q. And you draw from two directions? 

A. From two to four. The third essential advantage is, they never 
freeze. That is, where the pipe is, tbere is a continuous flow of water. It 
flows by the valve, and keeps the hydrant from freezing. Then the fourth 
is, b}'^ having them in the street, you can group your engines better than 
to have them on the sidewalk. You can get tliree engines around and 
give them plenty of water. I was-going to state, the first Lowry h3'drant 
we had was put in as an experiment, previous to the introduction of 
water into Charlestown, for the benefit of the Charlet,*own Water Com- 
missioners. It was put in on the burned district, in front of Beebe's 
building, in Winthrop square. That Avas put at the intersection of one 
pipe with another, — six-inch pipes, — and our Fire Department volun- 
teered to test the hydrant. There were four engines put there, and I am 
quite positive there were two streams from each engine, in the presence 
of the Water Commissioners of Charlestown, the Fire Department En- 
gineers of Boston, and such guests as were invited, and they could not 
exhaust the water from that one hydrant. 

Q. At the intersection of two pipes? 

A. I don't know whether you call it an intersection ; we call it a T. 
There was a supply from three ways to it, and with a twelve-inch pipe 
there would be four supplies to one point. That supplied four engines, 
and, I am quite confident, with two streams each. 

Q. You said there were two disadvantages ? 

A. One is a heavy snow in the winter. That I think can be easily 
overcome by a little labor. We have but few large storms. 

Q. The difficulty is in digging them out? 

A. The difficulty can be overcome by carting away the snow, but you 
would have to take it away some distance. If we cart it away from 
twenty to thirty feet each side, and make a gentle slope down to it, there 



480 

is no difiiculty. If the snow was merely removed from the top, the 
trouble would be that it would cave in and cover up the hydrant. 
Another difficulty is, the cover comes up an inch above the street. 

Q. Worse than a sewer cover? 

A. I don't think it is so bad. Either of them are bad enough, but not 
a serious matter. 

Q. In your judgment, if you were to re-pipe and furnish hydrants for 
that district, what pipe would you recommend ; what size? 

A. In regard to that, it would be only an opinion, if I should give it. 
That territory is better piped than any other portion of the city, but I 
should think the piping might be enlarged advantageously in some in- 
stances. 

Q. Such as what place? 

A. Federal street. There might be a 12-inch pipe put through Federal 
street. 

Q. Where else ? 

A. I don't think of any other place. 

Q. You would put the Lowry hydrants over those pipes? 

Q. By all means. 

Q. The pipes there, in your judgment, would furnish water enough? 

A. Yes, sir ; the pipes that are there now. For instance, where the 
fire commenced on Summer street, on the corner of Summer and Kings- 
ton. This pipe on Summer street, — anybody would naturally think, it 
being a 6-inch pipe, it would not give much water, but it has six sup- 
plies. It is supplied from Washington street, from Church Green, making 
two, and then the other streets branch into it. The supplies coming from 
these sources make a good supply at the commencement of a fire, but 
when you come to a large conflagration, it does not amount to so much. 

Q. Those pipes were put down in 1848, have they not filled up with 
rust? 

A. Yes, sir ; they have become reduced somewhat in size. 

Q. How much should you think? 

A. I should think perhaps nearly an inch. I should not think they 
would average more than 5-inch pipe. 

Q. If these Lowry hydrants are so vastly superior to the others, why 
have they not been adopted ? 

A. I cannot tell. I can only say I have recommended them. I can'fe 
say any tiling further. 

Q. Do you think you would get the full efficiency of Lowry hydrants 
on 6-inch mains? 

A. They have been adopted in Roxbnry and Dorchester, on all our 
new piping there. We have laid but little in Boston. In Dorchester, on 
the new territory, they have been adopted. In East Boston, they were 
put in. There was a territory laid out. to be piped with new pipes, and 
they have been put in with Lowry h3'drants. 

Q. What time was that? 

A. It was commenced last year and finished during this year. 

Q. Has East Boston the Lowry then? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. And no other? 

A. On that portion that was newly piped. 



481 

Q. Was that where the large fire occurred ? 

A. Yes, sir ; in that vicinity. 

Q. Whether you thinlv you can get the full efficiency of the Lowry hy- 
drants from a 6-inch main ? 

A. I think you do, for this reason. Even putting it on a 6-inch main 
without any intersection, there are two 6-inch supplies to it ; and where 
we have a branch, what we call a T branch, there are three sources of 
supply ; then it is made with a large capacit}^ at the bottom ; it goes in- 
to a large pot dowji below. The hydrant has a large base to it, where the 
water enters and then comes up, and it has a capacity of twice 6-inches 
to supply a 9-inch valve. 

Q. Did you visit the territory the day after the fire? 

A. No, sir ; I was laid up ever since. 

Q. Some of the hydrants were left open ? 

A. I got the information in regard to that from ray foreman. At the 
time of the fire, everything was all excitement at our head-quarters. I 
stayed there all the night, and the engines as they came in and could 
not get to the reservoirs came to us for tools. We let our tools go as 
far as we dared to, saving some for ourselves for opening the reservoirs, 
and then, instead of lending the tools, I sent the men out, and a man 
took charge of a certain number of reservoirs. Those they shut off, but 
there were from sixteen to eighteen in use during Sunday, and we found 
nine of them running on Monday. They were running the full head. 
These things in a large conflagration are serious matters, because you 
take a 4-inch outlet from a 6-inch pipe, under ground, and let it run con- 
tinually, 3'ou take the head almost entirely down. Not only that, the 
falling of the buildings broke our mains in three places. 

Q. Was there not a large waste from the broken service-pipes in the 
buiklings ? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. What steps were taken to stop that waste ? 

A. We shut off the district as soon as we could. We could not imme- 
diately afterwards. I sent men round to shut them ofi". We could not 
dig in the streets, but wherever we could send them into the buildings to 
shut it off, we did so, but the falling of the buildings cut off our shut- 
ofFs in the street. 

Q. Have you ever had the mains broken before by the falling of 
buildings ? 

A. Not to my recollection. To show how much a 4-inch pipe will take 
off of a 6-inch pipe, I will state a circumstance that happened in 1860. 
We laid a new 40-inch main, and on the Milldam we put a blow-off, — a 
16-inch outlet. That blew off one night. The three mains were then 
connected. The 36-inch, the 30-inch, and the 40-inch were all connected. 
In opening that hole of sixteen inches in the 40-inch main, it took all the 
water the 40-inch would supply from Brookline, and emptied the water 
from Beacon Hill, and all over the city took it down so low you could 
hardly di'aw it in the basements. 

Q. That was pretty near tide-water? 

A. Yes, sir. There is one serious matter in these reservoirs. There 
is an outlet to each of these reservoirs, down about six feet, about eight 
inches in diameter, and when the water comes to that point it runs to 
31 



482 

waste in the sewer. If it came to the top, the firemen could see it and 
shut it off; but if it don't come to the top, they think there is no occasion 
to shut it off, and it runs continually. 

Q. That is unnecessarily low ? 

A. It cannot be stopped very well unless the inlets are stopped. You 
see, the original suppl}' of water to the reservoirs came from the eaves of 
the houses and came in drains to the reservoir. Then there was an over- 
flow so that after it filled to that point it would run away. If the overflow 
is stopped so it will not take the water away, it backs into the stores, and 
gets into the cellars, and does damage. 

Q. Cannot they be stopped up? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Is there any object in keeping them so? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. Could they-not be readily stopped from the inside? 

A. I made a report to this effect ; I made this statement ; but it 
would not do to stop up the overflow unless you turned the course of the 
inlets on account of the damage it might do to the stores. All the stores 
have valuable property in the basement, and it would not do to have this 
water get into them. 

Q. You would have these inlets diverted to the sewers ? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Did the firemen of the country engines come to you when they 
could not couple, or send to your office ? 

A. When they could not open the reservoirs. 

Q. Not in regard to the coupling of their hose? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. How much below the street are these overflows generally? 

A. About six feet, I judge. 

Q. Should you think there would be any objection to having them 
fixed at three feet or four? 

A. Yes sir, I would not have any of them. If it came over the top, 
let it come. There is nothing to fill the reservoirs, or ought not to be, 
but the Cochituate, and when the gate is open so as to let the Cochituate 
in, if it overflows let it flow into the street, "fhat would be a warning 
that it was full. You see an eight-inch outlet in a reservoir will take a 
great deal of water away. 

Q. Have there been any reservoirs built since the introduction of Co- 
chituate water? 

A. Not to my knowledge ; I think not. 

Q. Were there any hydrants left running? 

A. We found one only. That was where a building tumbled and the 
firemen were probably obliged to get away as soon as possible. Each 
engine and each hose carriage carries a wrench with them so they can 
shut off a hydrant, which they have to do before they can take their hose 
off. It is not so with a reservoir. The Fire Department have only a 
■\\'rench to open the reservoir with, that goes with each hook-and-ladder 
company. That is why they had but a few tools to open them with. 

Q. If they could have had the tools convenient, they would shut them 
. with the same tool ? 

A. Not during the excitement ; they are not so apt as they would be 



483 

•with a hydrant, because they have to shut them oflF before they can take 
their hose off the hydrant. 

Q. They could use the same tool if they had it on hand? 

A. Yes, sir, but there was not enough made for every reservoir that 
■was open. We and the Fire Department together hadn't tools enough to 
have one to each reservoir. 

Q. Has any information been brought to your knowledge from the 
Chief Engineer of the Fire Department that the pipes were not suf- 
ficiently large in that district to provide against fire? 

A. I have not heard anything from that district particularly. Quite 
frequently, when there is a large fire, he will sa}' that the pipes are not 
big enough. 

Q. What is 3'our opinion? 

A. I don't think they are large enough for a conflagration of that 
kind, but they are large enough to prevent it. 

Q. With the present hj'drants, do you think ? 

A. It has always been so. I don't know when it has not, except this 
last time. I can only say, if I was going to pipe the district anew, I 
should put in Lowry hydrants. 

Q. Is there any reason, except the expense, why the Lowry should not 
be put into the present pipes ? 

A. I don't know of any. 

Q. After the experience of the fire, what would be your own judgment 
on that point, — about putting in the Lowry h3'drants? 

A. I should put them in by all means. I don't think I should ever 
put in the Boston hj^drants ; even before the fire, I should not. 

Q. How about making the change ; whether it is worth while to make 
the change now? 

A. I think I should myself, yes, sir. 

Q. What is the cost of the Lowry hydrant? 

A. Eighty-five dollars is the first cost. 

Q. What is the cost of the Boston hydrant ? 

A. Thirty-five dollars. 

Q. About fifty dollars each difference ? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Where do you get the Lowry? 

A. They are manufactured here. 

Q. If I understand it, the Lowry hydrants are used generally in the 
suburbs ? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. But here in the city we use the Boston ? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. And when these out-of-town people come in from the Lowry hy- 
drants, they cannot work with the Boston hydrants, on account of the 
coupling? 

A. No, sir, it is not the coupling ; it is the wrench that opens them. 
The couplings of the Boston and the Lowry hydrants are the same. 
For the Lowry h^^drants, they carry a chuck. 

Q. It requires a different instrument to open them? 

A. Yes, sir, but that they all have, because the}' all have Boston hy- 
drants somewhere in their localit}'. 



484 

Q. Do you know anj'thing about the cause of the difficulty of 
coupling the country engines? 

A. They had a different thread on the hose. 

Q. You had nothing officially to do with that? 

A. No, sir. In Chelsea, for instance, their couplings are the same, but 
the thread is different. There should be a uniform thread, not only here 
but in New York — the same as there is a gas thread all over the State. 

Q. It should be national ? 

A. Yes, sir, national ; of course we should not expect to get any en- 
gines from over the water. 

Q. It should be a congressional law instead of a legislative law? 

A. Yes, sir. Speaking about piping the territory again, I should 
adopt the plan they have now. All the new pipes we put in are coated 
pipes. They make a smooth flow for the water, and we do not know of 
any corrosion. 

Q. What do you coat them with? 

A. A composition of bitumen and linseed oil. 

Q. From what quarter has come the opposition to the Lowry 
hj'drant ? 

A. There is no opposition that I know of. 

Q. Why hasn't it been put in? 

A. We have put it in. They were put in in Roxbury as an experiment ; 
when Dorchester was annexed it was continued there, and the little we 
have laid in Boston, we have continued in the Boston style. I have [no 
authority to take out the hydrants now in. 

Q. My question is why hasn't it been done ? 

A. I don't know. 

Q. Who would have decided that question ; to whom does it go? 

A. I presume it would come upon the Water Board. They would have 
to get a larger appropriation for them, because they are more expensive. 

Q. Was the Lowry hydrant applied in Roxbury and Dorchester^ after 
annexation ? 

A. Yes, sir. 

AT WOOD D. DREW, sworn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) What department are j^ou connected with? 
A. I am Chief Engineer of the Fire Department at Watertown. 
Q. You were in here on the night of the fire? 
A. Yes, sir, I was. 

Q. How many engines were in from Watertown ? 
A. Only one. We have only one steam engine. 
Q. What time did 3'ou arrive? 

A. I arrived here about half-past four with the engine. 
Q. In the morning? 

A. Yes, sir. I came in myself about half-past twelve. 
Q. Where were you stationed ? 
A. On the corner of School and Tremont streets. 
Q. Were you there most of the day ? 

A. I was there until about ten o'clock, when we were ordered to the 
foot of State and Broad streets. 



485 

Q. Who gave you those orders, — the Chief or one of the Assistant 
Engineers? 

A. A policeman, I think. 

Q. Not a member of the department ? 

A. No, sir, I think not. 

Q. Where did you go from there? 

A. Corner of Broad and State streets. 

Q. Did you work the engine on the corner of Tremont and School ? 

A. Yes, sir, we worked what time we were there, playing on to the 
** Transcript " building and down Milk street. 

Q. Your hose led the whole length of School? 

A. Yes, sir. I brought in 800 feet of hose with me, and borrowed 
some in here to make out the line. 

Q. Did you connect on the corner of State and Broad? 

A. No, sir, we hadn't any connection. 

Q. What was the difficulty? 

A. The difficulty was the two-inch hydrants. We had a ttvo-and-a- 
half-inch connection. 

Q. How did you play on Tremont street ? 

A. We were in a reservoir. 

Q. Were there other out-of-town engines about you ? 

A. Up at Tremont street ? 

Q. Yes, sir. 

A. There was one, — I think it was from Charlestown. 

Q. Did you see the Chief Engineer during the fire? 

A. I did. 

Q. Did you receive any orders from him? 

A. Not especially ; not anything further than to fight the fire. 

Q. Where did you first see him ? 

A. I saw him shortly after I arrived, on the corner of Milk street and 
Washington street. He came there and spoke about blowing up the 
building. I asked him if he intended to blow the building up, and he said 
that was the orders. I said to him I thought it could be stopped with- 
out resorting to that extreme measure. I told him I thought we could 
stop it by fighting, and he then said, " Give it a desperate fight," and 
left. Shortly after, he came back and said he was going to blow the 
building up. 

Q. What building was that? 

A. Just below the corner of Milk and Washington, next to Currier 
& Trott's. I asked him, when he returned, if he intended to blow the 
building up, and he said that was the order and it must be obeyed. That 
is what he told me. 

Q. When you first came in town, you say you went to the corner of 
Tremont and School. How did you happen to go there ? 

A. I met a man and asked him where there was a hj^drant or reservoir. 
He seemed to be a man having charge of the reservoirs and hydrants. 

Q. An Engineer was he? 

A. No, sir, not that I know of. He had no badge that 1 could distin- 
guish him by. He said, " Your location is here," and he went and took 
up the reservoir cap. He seemed to have authority', and he said, " I will 



486 

let the water on in a few minutes." He seemed to be some person that 
understood where the reservoir was, and how it was situated. 

Q. Then you went to work without any further orders ? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. When j^ou left, did you shut the water off from the reservoir? 

A. No, sir, I did not. There was some person there that did. 

Q. When you connected with the reservoir and run your hose down 
School street, did you do it on your own hooli? 

A. On my own responsibility. 

Q. And fought the fire where you thought you could do the most good ? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Without any orders from anybody ? 

A. Without any orders, yes, sir. 

Q. What do you think of the management of the fire generally ; have 
you formed an opinion ? 

A. My opinion of the management of the fire was like this : I thought 
it was managed, under the circumstances, as well as it could be managed 
after it reached the magnitude it had when I arrived there. 

Q. So far as you observed, the Fire Department did their duty to the 
utmost of their capacity ? 

A. I think so. 

Q. Did 3' ou have plenty of fuel ? 

A. Yes, sir, I did. 

Q. Plenty of water ? 

A. Plenty of water from this reservoir. 

Q. How did you get your fuel ? 

A. I brought enough with me, probably, to last about twenty min- 
utes, or fifteen minutes, and after I got my hose laid, my 800 feet of hose 
came just to the corner of Washington and School streets. I saw there 
was a line of hose lying there not used. I don't recollect what line of 
hose it was, but I went to the hoseman and told him they were doing no 
good as they were, and I would like their hose. My company, — the 
engine company, — were all in here. They left at the first alarm and 
came in, and I went out and got the engine and brought it in without my 
men, running my risk of finding them when I got here. I found that 
line of hose not doing any service. I got the hosemen to disconnect 
their line and make a connection with my engine, and by that means I 
got a stream on the fire. One of the firemen came down and said, " We 
have no fuel," and somebody passed the remark that the orders were to 
take boxes or anything I could find. I saw a team taking out goods 
from the store next to the corner store. I went to the teamster and told 
him I wanted his horse. He refused, but I told him I could not take any 
refusal, and I sent and got one of my men and put him in the wagon, 
and said, "You go and get some coal, and see that it is delivered to the 
engine. I don't want any noes, ifs or ands about it ; " and by that means 
I got the coal. 

Q. How did 3^ou draw your engine in from Watertown ? 

A. With horses. 

Q. Were they the regular team that belongs to the engine ? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. Where did you get them ? 



487 

A. From an expressman. 

Q. Had you provided beforehand for spare horses while yours were 
sick ? 

A. Ours were not so sick but what they could be used at all times in 
the village, although I had made preparations and had ordered the driver 
to go to a place perhaps within 200 or 300 feet of the engine house, aij^l 
take a pair of horses at any time in case of an alarm of fire ; and Satur- 
urday night, on the evening of the 9th, I told m}' driver to make prepa- 
rations to take that pair of horses, should there be an alarm. The night 
of the fire our horses were not in a condition to come so far. The New- 
ton Engineers sent me down word that they had gone to Boston, and re- 
quested me, in case of a fire in their town, to go to their assistance. The 
11 o'clock train came out and brought news that there was a large fire 
in Boston. Our Engineer had been in during the evening and said there 
was a large fire and we ought to go to their assistance. I said I thought 
if the fire was such that Mr. Damrell needed assistance, he knew where 
we were and could send a dispatch for us. I waited until the 11 o'clock 
train got out, and then I thought I would come in and see. So I wall<ed 
into Boston to see the fire, and when I arrived I saw the necessity of 
help ; that it needed every and all help that could be got. I met an P^n- 
gineer on Summer street, and he said, by all means use every exertion 
to get our engine here as soon as possible. I then went out and pro- 
cured those two pairs of horses and came right back. 

Q. Did 3'^ou wallc out again ? 

A. No, sir, I rode out. 

Q. How many miles is it from j'our engine house to State street ? 

A. I should suppose about six miles. 

Q. How long were you coming? 

A. Fifty-five minutes coming in. 

Q. With four horses ? 

A. Yes, sir. I was just an hour walking in. It was just one hour 
from the time I left home until I got to Summer street. 

Q. Were those horses any worse for the trip? 

A. No, sir, we didn't consider them so. 

Q. Had they been sick? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Convalescent? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Did you have any change in your rules in consequence of the horse 
disease? 

A. No, sir, not anything further than that all preparations were made 
in case they were worse, or anything of that kind, to get horses ; that 
was all. 

Q. Is there anything else you have to communicate in regard to the 
fire, or any suggestion? 

A. I don't know of anything in particular. I think from what I saw at 
the fire that there was a lack of water. 

Q. In what places ? 

A. I saw some engines that they said were without a sufl^cient supply 
of water. On the corner where I was located there were five streams, 
and there were only three of them that were doing any execution. I 



488 

asked the question what was the trouble with those engines, that ihey 
didn't play a better stream, and I was answered that the hydrants did 
not supply them with water enough, that they were running away from 
the water. 

Q. When you got to Broad street you had no coupling? 
^. No, sir. 

Q. And were unable to do anything at all? 

A. Unable to do anything on account of that. I went to City Hall to 
get a reducer, but could not get any ; and also went to Hunneman's place, 
but could not find one there. 

Q. How long did you remain there ? 

A. In that neighborhood until about three o'clock in the afternoon. 
I went to one of the Engineers, who was then there where the fire 
stopped — I think Oliver street runs across there — and told him ray 
situation, and he passed the remark, I had better go down on to the 
wharf and set my engine, and he or some other Engineer would come 
down in time and form a line of engines so as to supply us with fresh 
water, and we could use salt water from the docks. I went on to the 
wharf next to Long wharf. Engine 8, of Boston, was there, down be- 
low the Custom House. I waited there some time, and went up on to 
BrOad street, but did not find anybody to assist me, or tell me where I 
could find the hydrants, or much about them. Finally, we went and 
borrowed a connection, just about the time of leaving, and we found a 
hydrant way down on India wharf, I think it is, but we hadn't hose 
enough to reach the fire and could not do any good, and as our town 
was left bare, I thought we had better go home. 

Q. What sort of a coupling do you use with your engine when you 
attach it at home ? 

A. We use reservoirs altogether at our place. 

Q. You have no hj^drants at all ? 

A. No, sir. We have a hydrant .connection with our engine ; that 
will connect with a two-and-a-half-inch hydrant. 

Q. What kind is that? 

A. The same as the Boston hydrants ; two and a half inches is the 
size. I understand that section of the city has two-inch hydrants ; 
something smaller. 

Q. Did you see anything of the use of gunpowder? 

A. I did. t was present when the building was blown up on the 
corner of Milk street and Washington. 

Q. Did you see anything of it in the lower part of the cit}^ ? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. Were your men ordered back on account of the blowing? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. They were withdrawn? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. How much time did they lose? 

A. I should not think they lost more than five minutes. 



489 



ALFRED KENDRICK, Jr., sworn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) You are the Brookline Engineer? 

A. I am, sir. 

Q. What time did you get in to the great fire? 

A. About twenty minutes past nine. I came in on the nine-o'clock 
train from Brookline. 

Q. Did you go out again to get the Brookline engine ? 

A. I sent out. I sent a messenger out. 

Q. Is it a sieam engine? 

A. No, sir, a hand engine. 

Q. How many came in ? 

A. The only one we have, sir. 

Q. How was it brought in — by horse or by hand ? 

A. By hand. I sent out word for them to get horses if they could, 
but the messenger did not do his errand, or there was some misunder- 
standing, and it came by hand. 

Q. What time did they arrive? 

A. They told me (I did not see them when they arrived) that they 
arrived about half past ten. 

Q. Do you knoiv how long they were on the way ? 

A. About thirty-five minutes. 

Q. What is the distance ? 

A. Four miles, I suppose it would be called. 

Q. What did you do with them ? 

A. I didn't see them. The place I ordered them to report to me 
was all on fire, and I didn't see them for several hours. I lost track ot 
them entirely. 

Q. What were they doing? 

A. They were at work in the mean time under the direction of Boston 
Engineers, in different localities. When I found them, they were at 
work on Broad street. 

Q. Where did you first find the fire? 

A. I went up Lincoln street to the junction of Bedford and Summer. 

Q. Where was the fire then ? 

A. The fire then had worked down to the corner building — the Free- 
man's Bank building — where the church used to stand, and on the 
other side it had got down nearly opposite. 

Q. On both sides of the street? 

A. Yes, sir, nearly through to Winthrop square. 

Q. Were there many engines there? 

A. There were two I think in the square, draughting water from the 
reservoir. 

Q. How did you think they were operating? 

A. I should think they were doing as well as they could under the 
circumstances. It was very hot there. 

Q. What other part of the fire did you see ? 

A. I was next up on Chauncy street. After being driven away 
from the corner of Bedford and Summer streets, they seemed to check 
the fire there. I supposed from appearances thej^ would, and they did 



490 

finally check it. I then went round and came down Summer from Wash- 
ington. The fire was working up Summer street, and liad got up to the 
corner, or nearly up to the corner of Hawley, on the north side, but not 
quite so far up on the other side. 

Q. Did it then appear to you impossible to prevent its coming up 
Summer street? 

A. I thought it could be stopped on the south side, but I did not see 
any way of stopping it on the north side until it burned to the church. 
I thought the church would stop it, perhaps. 

Q. Did the department that you saw at work there appear to be doing 
all that could be done? 

A. I think they did. There was not department enough for the fire. 

Q. Was not apparatus enough? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. Did you see any lack of water there? 

A. I thought there appeared to be a lack of water. I noticed that 
engines draughting from a reservoir were much more effectual than those 
taking water from hydrants. 

Q. That you observed in diff'erent places? ' 

A. Yes, sir ; and as the fire increased, it grew, of course, worse. 

Q. Did you see any attempts made to fight the fire from the roofs of 
the buildings? * 

A. Yes, sir ; not from the roofs of the buildings in which the fire was, 
but from the opposite side of the street. That was done in Chauncy 
street, and along on Washington street. 

Q. How late did 3^ou remain? 

A. I left the fire somewhere about five o'clock in the morning, for two 
or three hours. 

Q. Did you notice any scarcity of fuel ? 

A. No, sir ; there seemed to be plenty of fuel, such as it was. 

Q. Not alwaj^s coal? 

A. No, sir. 

A. More boxes than anything? 

A. Some boxes ; in some cases I saw them used. ♦ 

Q. Did 3'ou see any engines stop for want of fuel? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. They kept the machines moving? 

A. Yes, sir ; the wood seemed to make a pretty good, hot fire. 

Q. Did you see an}' engines idle? 

A. No, sir ; I didn't. 

Q. Did 3'ou see goods given away anywhere where you were? 

A. No, sir ; I can't say I did. I went into one store where they ap- 
peared to be helping themselves ; whether it was by direction of the pro- 
prietor, or not, I could not say. 

Q. Firemen? 

A. Yes, sir ; I think I saw firemen with rubber goods. 

Q. Did you notice the company or the number? 

A. No, sir ; I did not. I think I saw policemen, too. 

Q. Policemen helping themselves? 

A. They appeared to be. 

Q. What building was that? 



491 

A. On Summer street, just below Trinity Church, on the same side ; 
a rubber store. 

Q. Were those firemen city firemen, or couldn't you tell? 

A. I could not say whether they were or not. 

Q. Did you see much water wasted by throwing it on to places where 
it did no good ? 

A. Yes, sir ; I saw water wasted, because it did not reach where it was 
required. 

Q. Would not go high enough ? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. Was this long continued ? 

A. I saw it used in that way a considerable length of time on Summer 
street, on the south side. 

Q. To what did you impute that? 

A. To there not being power enough in the hydrants to throw it high 
enough, and the high buildings. 

Q. Were those hydrant streams ? 

A. The stream I allude to particularly was a hydrant stream. 

Q. Did the engine streams play as high as they ought to? 

A. Not so high as engines ought to play, if they had a full supply of 
water. 

Q. Did you see how this water could be more wisely used? 

A. No, sir ; I did not. It was so intensely hot in those localities 
they could not go on to the buildings, and they had to get as near as 
they could, and direct the stream towards the fire. 

Q. Your opinion was that the progress of the fire was owing to the in- 
adequacy of the department to contend against it, rather than a want of 
skill in managing the force they had? 

A. Yes, sir; that is the impression I had. When I got to the fire, I 
thought it was beyond all control, and immediately sent a messenger 
back to Brookline to send the whole department ; that is, in addition to 
the engine, a hose-carriage and hook-and-ladder. 

Q. Did you see anything of them ? 

A. I saw them all in the course of the night. I saw one or two Bos- 
ton Engineers, and told them the department was coming, and they said 
if I did not find an Engineer, to set them at work where I could to the 
best advantage, and if they saw them, they would set them at work. 

Q Did you see the Chief? 

A. Only once during the night ; at about quarter-past ten, I should 
think. 

Q. Where? 

A. In the square at the junction of Bedford and Summer streets. 

Q. Did he give you any directions ? 

A. No, sir ; he did not. He seemed to be in a great hurry. I told 
him my department was coming ; he said, " All right," and I think he 
passed down Summer street. 

Adjourned. 



492 



SIXTEENTH DAT. 

Thursday, Dec. 19. 
Hon. EUGENE L. NORTON, sworn. 

Q. (B}^ Mr. Russell.) You were interested, I believe, in this burned 
district ? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. What time did you reach the fire? 

A. I reached my store about ten minutes past ten. 

Q. (B}'^ Mr. Cobb.) Where was your store? 

A. 81 High street. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Are there any facts within your knowledge 
which 3'ou think ought to be known to the Commission? 

A. When I arrived at my store, the fire was on the west side of Con- 
gress street ; it had not reached the vicinity of ray store by some five 
hnndred feet. I noticed that the buildings all took in the roofs, and 
that the engines were not powerful enough to throw the streams, appar- 
ently, more than three stories high ; no water reached the roofs of the 
buildings on High street while I was there. There was a single steamer 
in the street when I arrived, and I remained until the store I occupied 
was burned down, and the adjoining stores were well on fire. While 
there, a second steamer arrived, but the labors of the firemen were wholly 
ineffectual, from the want of power in the steamers, I think. The roofs, 
as far as I noticed, were not reached at all by the water. 

Q. Can jrou tell what the want of power was owing to? 

A. I cannot ; there seemed to be no deficiency in the supply of water. 

Q. An_vthing further? 

A. Nothing further, except that — if opinions are admissible — I 
should say that the fire might have been arrested if the buildings had 
been blown up before it reached that quarter, and others that I noticed 
after. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) Did you see the actual effect of the blow- 
ing up? 

A. I did not. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) That is on the theory that water could do no 
good? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Did you see anything noticeable about the general management of 
the fire by the Chief or his Assistants? 

A. No, sir ; nothing came under my notice. 



493 



Hon. OTIS NORCROSS, sworn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) At what time did you reach the fire? 

A. As near as my recollection serves, it was about eight o'clock. 

Q. Did you see any fact on the spot that you think should be brought 
before the Commission? 

A. I don't think I went hear enough to say anything in regard to the 
management of the fire, or to express any opinion about it. When I saw 
that the fire was likely to go through into Otis street, I retreated and 
went round into Winthrop square. The fire went across to Mr. Weld's 
building, and from there to the other side of Devonshire street, and took 
those Mansard roofs, followed the tops of the buildings across all the 
way, and seemed to have its own way, pretty much. The water from 
the engines did little or no good ; I didn't think it did any good ; it 
didn't reach far enough. We stayed there until we were driven away by 
the police, who said that the building over our heads was on fire. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) Did you see any effort made to put out the fire 
upon the roofs while 3'ou were there ? 

A. There was nobody on Mr. Beebe's building or this other building, 
— nobody on the roofs, that I remember. I don't remember seeing any, 
'and I think I should have noticed them if they had been there. There 
were one or two engines and some hose in this street, playing up in front 
of the building, but the stream did not reach the fire. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Did you go to City Hall? 

A. I stayed in Franklin street for a while, and then W!;nt home to 
report myself, and laid down a few minutes. I should think it was three 
or four o'clock when I got to City Hall, but I can't say exactly what 
time it was. 

Q. Before you went there, had you seen the Mayor or Chief Engineer? 

A. No, sir ; I started from home, thinking that the Mayor might want 
some friend to be with him, and I went to City Hall. The Mayor said 
he was glad I had come, and requested me to stay with him, which I did 
until morning. 

Q. Did you have any consultation as to what measures should be 
taken to check the fire ? 

A. Not directly as to what measures should be taken to check the fire, 
but very many people came in, and as various questions came up, there 
was a great deal of conversation about the fire and so on, but no con- 
versation directly as to taking the management of anything, other than 
that people came in and wanted to know about blowing up buildings. 

Q. Were you there when General Burt came in? 

A. I was not when he came in the first time. I saw him there often- 
times during the fire, but I understood from some communication that 
he. was there before I went there. 

Q. Were you at the City Hall when General Burt was there talking 
about blowing up buildings ? 

A. No, sir, I was not there. 

Q. Then I will ask you generally whether anything took place there 
•worthy of notice ? 

A. A great many people came in, wanting the Mayor to order such 



494 

and such buildings blown up ; and the Mayor, whenever anything was 
said about blowing up buildings, always coupled whatever he said, with 
the direction that the Chief P^ngineer must be consulted. I think there 
was no instance while I was there that he did not give that direction. 

Q. Did he say that he had no autliority ? 

A. I don't know that he said he had no authority, but he said repeat- 
edly, " No action must be taken in this matter unless you confer in the 
first place with the Chief Engineer ; " and I thought that was very good 
advice. It won't do to have too many heads. 

Subsequently, Mr. Norcross was recalled, and made the following 
statement : — 

I recollect Gen. Benham's asking authority, two or three times, for 
blowing up buildings. In no case was any authority given, except that 
he should confer with the Chief Engineer. There must be no action 
except in conference with the Chief Engineer. Mr. Atkinson came with 
Benham two or three times. Tiiey came to renew the request. Mr. At- 
kinson was desirous that Gen. Benham should have authority to act on 
his own discretion — not that he put the question in so many words — 
but I got the impression that he wanted that authority for Benham, and 
that Benham wanted it for himself. I felt the importance of not giving, 
such authority to Gen. Benham. I thought there would be great danger 
to the firemen. The result of it was that Gen. Benham would give the 
benefit of his skill and experience to the Chief Engineer. The Maj^or 
advised with me continuall}', that night. There ought to be one head in 
using powder, and this was kept in view. All Boston would have been 
blown up, if all requests had been granted, and if the material had been 
provided. 

Many persons asked to be appointed as police oflScers to guard their 
property. The Mayor said he would do so when the Aldermen came, 
ou pi'oof of their fitness. 



JAMES F. MARSTON, sworn. 

Q,. (By Mr. Russell.) You are a member of the City Council ? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. At what time did you reach the fire? 

A. I should judge from ten minutes to a quarter of an hour after the 
second alarm. 

Q. What was the condition of the fire then? 

A. At that time, it had got across Summer street ; there were one or 
two stores that were on fire on the opposite side, when I got there. 

Q. Will you state any fact that you noticed Avhich you think the com- 
mission ought to know ? 

A. It has always seemed to me that the great trouble with the fire 
was that the alarm was not given soon enough ; it seemed to have got 
too much headway before the alarm was given. 

Q. What experience have you had in connection Avith the Fire De- 
partment? 

A. I have had twenty j'^eai's' experience, sir. 



495 



Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) Have you any connection with the Fire De- 
partment now ? 

A. I am on the Committee of the Fire Department of the City Gov- 
ernment, 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) As an expert, how do you consider that that 
fire was managed? 

A. It was managed as well as any living man could have managed it, 
in my judgment, from what I saw of it. 
• Q. How did the firemen behave ? 

A. Very well indeed, as far as I saw. 

Q. Did you see any misconduct among them? 

A. Not among our own firemen ; there were some out-of-town firemen 
there who behaved very ungentlemanly indeed, it seemed to me ; they 
would not obey anybody's orders. 

Q. How many times did you see the Chief during the night? 

A. I only saw him twice, from eight o'clock until three o'clock the next 
morning. As near as I can remember, I saw him about nine o'clock at 
the foot of Summer street. 

Q. How did he appear? 

A. Very calm indeed ; that is, as calm as I could expect him to under 
existing circumstances. 

Q. Looking back upon the fire now, can you think of anything that 
ought to have been done that was not done to stop it? 

A. I don't know that there was anything. I can't see how anything 
different could be done if the same thing should occur again. There is 
a diflference of opinion in relation to the use of powder. In my opinion, 
it is good if you can blow the b^nlding down ; but if you only partially 
level it, it is more of an injury than benefit. 

Q. The conduct of the firemen has been criticised because the}' did 
not go on the roofs more ; can you give any reason why that was not 
done more than it was? 

A. I haven't heard of any case where they refused to go upon a roof 
when they were told to go there. 

Q. Were there any cases, so far as your observation extended, where 
they did not go when they might have gone? 

A. No, sir; but I was on Broad street, among those low buildino-s. I 
fought the fire on that street, and was not in a situation to see how it 
was managed in other localities ; I did not leave that position at all ; I 
stayed thei-e at the request of the Chief. 

Q. When you first got there, did you see the firemen playing on the 
fronts of buildings, washing the fronts, as it is called, and using water 
in that way that could have been used to better advantage elsewhere? 

A. I saw one stream on this side of Summer street which was played 
as high as it could, but it only reached to the third or fourth stoiy. 

Q. Was that doing any good? 

A. No, sir, I don't think it was, so far as that stream was concerned. 

Q. Were they wasting the water at that time? 

A. I should think they were. It was only for a few minutes ; the 
stream was changed into a building in the rear and carried up inside. 
They played two or three minutes when they fii-st got there, and then 



496 

they were ordered by some Engineer into the building in the rear, and 
went np inside. 

Q. How did the hose work that night? 

A. Very well indeed, as far as I saw. 

Q. Has Mr. Damrell ever brought to the attention of your committee 
the want of water or apparatus in this part of Boston? 

A. He has spoken a number of times in relation to the smallness of 
our water-pipes ; I have heard him suggest that it would be a great deal 
better if tlie pipes were larger, and that the hydrants should be tapped 
from the main pipe. 

Q. Has he talked about the Lowry hydrant ? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Has he urged the adoption of that? 

A. He has, to a certain extent. I don't know how hard he has urged 
it, but I know he has been very strongly in favor of their being placed 
all over the city. 

Q. Has he ever spoken of the fact that the most exposed part of 
Boston, or the most wealthy part of Boston, was destitute of steamers? 

A. I think I have heard him say that there should be an engine at the 
foot of State street, or somewhere in that locality. I think I have heard 
him say that quite a number of times. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) When Mr. Damrell has spoken of the water-pipes 
as being too small, has that been in committee? 

A. Once, certainly, before the committee, and I think once or twice in 
his office, outside. 

Q. Has any action ever been taken in your committee on that subject? 

A. Nothing definite. 

Q. Any vote ever been taken ? 

A. Not to my knowledge. I believe there was last year, before I was 
in the government. 

Q. Not since you have been there? 

A. No, sir, not since I have been in the government. 

Hon. GEORGE W. WARREN, sworn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) At what time did you reach the fire? 

A. About eight o'clock. 

Q. How far had it got then ? 

A. I left Hotel Pelham with my wife, thinking there was a good 
chance to see something of a fire. I went dow^n Winter street and 
stopped for an hour, and then took her back and put on an old coat and 
my glazed cap ; got my Alderman's star, which I had in 1864, and went 
to the fire. Having been one of the young firemen in the days of the 
volunteers, I take some interest in the department. I went down, in- 
tending to assist Mr. George H. Rogers, a friend of mine, on Kingston 
street, whose house I heard was in danger. I got there a little before 
nine o'clock, I think. 1 found there was plenty of water and plenty of 
power, and that the fire was not likely to go in the direction of Hotel 
Pelham. I then went dovrn Bedford street to get below the fire, and 
came up Summer street, going round the Church Green estate. I found 
that there were three or four engines there and the fire burning so fast 



497 

that it frightened me. I remained there — it seemed hours, but it was 
perhaps fifLeen or twenty minutes. I noticed that the fire was crossing 
Devonshire street, and called the attention of a fireman to the necessity 
of playing upon it to stop its crossing the street. He said, " I can't 
reach it." " Can't reach that," said I ; "we used to reach it with our 
old tub engines. Aren't there any engines in the department that can 
play there?" He said, "I don't think there are any." »Says I, 
" Then the fire has got to go as far as these high buildings last." " I 
don't see but what it has," said he. I stepped back perfectly over- 
powered with the thought. I never dreamed of such a thing. The idea 
of those buildings burning up was to me something beyond possibility 
until that moment. I stopped to see it cross, and I think the second 
building had taken fire when I asked where Chief Engineer Damrell was. 
They did not know. I started then to find him and as I turned around, 
I found the fire had crossed to the south block in the attic. Not a drop 
of water had been thrown on that side, and there was no engine that 
could play on the fire as it caught. I went round back to Chauncy street 
again, asking for Mr. Damrell all the way. I got the answer from a 
fireman that he had gone to the Insane Hospital. I don't know who the 
man was ; I don't know that he knew who I was, because I don't gener- 
ally appear in a glazed cap, except when I go down the harbor ; it is one 
I bought for that purpose. I kept on up to the fire, in pursuit of Mr. 
Damrell, as near as I could get, but I couldn't find him. I found, how- 
ever, that there were plenty of engines and plenty of water ; it seemed 
to me that there were too many engines, more than were being used ; 
some of them were not playing. I then went down Kingston street and 
round up Chauncy street, and worked through up Summer street, into 
Hawley street, inquiring for Mr. Damrell of every city man or prominent 
man and fireman I could. 

I said to this fireman, " If you can't reach it with water, then you 
have got to use something else besides water." The same answer came, 
" I don't see but what we have ; " and it was for the purpose of suggest- 
ing powder to Mr. Damrell that I was after him. I was working my 
way round to the corner of Franklin street, when I met Barney Hull. 
I thought then I had got a live man, whom I could interest. I said, " Mr. 
Hull, we have got to do something to stop this fire." " Oh," said he, 
" we are going to have forty engines ; they have telegraphed everywhere 
for them, and they are coming in, and we 'shall stop it." I said, " You 
ma}' have forty thousand engines, and if they can't do any more than 
the engines on the south side are doing, you can't stop the fire." Then 
I told him what I had seen. lie said, " What will you do? " I said, " I 
would blow up all the south side of Franklin street before I would stand 
and see the fire burn as it is burning. And I would not only blow up 
Franklin street, but I would blow up Feijeral street down to Summer 
street if necessary." '' Oh," said he, " You have lost 3-our head." I 
remained at the corner of Franklin street, and near by there until the 
fire came through those buildings, and there was not an engine nor any 
water there ; whereas, if they had had engines there and fought the fire 
as they did on Washington street through the stores, which could have 
been done with perfect safety, having an opportunity to retreat by the 
back way, they could have stopped the progress of the fire there. Tha 



498 

hose could have been carrlerl up through the buikVings to the fourth story, 
and if they had had half the steamers on Franklin street that they had 
on Summer street and that neighborhood, they could have prevented 
the fire from spreading in that direction. I remained there until half- 
past twelve o'clock, and then I must say I despaired of the city. There 
was no other one point where you could have concentrated a force and 
worked to so much advantage as 3'ou could have done on Franklin street. 
Three engines in Franklin street, playing from the north side, or carry- 
ing their hose up through the stores and playing down upon the fire 
from the rear, could have extinguished it. That was the simplest and 
first thing that it seemed to me would suggest itself to any fireman. 

I did not find Mr. Damrell, though I sought for him up to twelve 
o'clock at night, but while I stood in Franklin street I got again the 
answer from a fireman, that he had lost his head. Those two answers 
I had from ditferent firemen. One said that he had gone to the Insane 
Hospital, and another that he had lost his head. Everybod3^ else spoke 
respectfully of him wlien I inquired for him ; that is to say, they used 
no slang expressions. 

Q. Were these Boston firemen? 

A. Boston firemen, at work on their engines. I felt then, and I feel 
to-daj', more sorrow over the bad management of the fire, as it seems to 
me, — that is to sa}^ the disgrace of it, — than over the loss. I think we 
can recover from the loss, but I am afraid it will be a long time before 
Boston will stand where she has, for after seeing that Norwich engine 
playing three streams of water up into the cupola of the building on the 
corner of Summer street, at the Sunday night fire (we had no such exhi- 
bition on Saturday night) — after seeing that, I made some inquiries, 
and was told by Engineers, that we have no first-class engines in the 
Boston Fire Department. I asked if we had any second-class, and the 
reply was, that we had third-class, but they could not say we had second- 
class. At any rate, that fireman told me they had no engines that 
could reach the fire, when it was in one of the buildings on the corner of 
Devonshire street, where it enters Summer. 

Q. If you had been in command when you were in Franklin street, 
should you have used water or powder? 

A. Both. I should have sent for powder. I said to Barney Hall, 
^' Oh, for one hour of despotism ! " I should have called in the military 
and had the powder. 

Q. Didn't j'ou think, at that time, that the fire could have been stopped 
Tvith water? 

A. I do think it could have been stopped in that direction. I have 
BO hesitation in saying, that I think three steam engines could have 
stopped it, had they been stationed in Franklin street. Of course, on 
such a night, you cannot speak of time ; but I shoukl say it was near ten 
o'clock when I reached there, and I think the fire must have got into 
that street within thirty-five minutes after I got there, or somewhere 
about half-past ten ; and yet it might have been twelve o'clock, for all I 
Icnow. I went home at half-past twelve, and then came down to State 
street to remove m}'^ books. 

Q. Did you sec anything of the blowing up? 



499 

A. I went home at five o'clock, and slept until nine, and then went 
out again. I saw nothing of the blowing up. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) You speak of a Norwich engine as better 
than the Boston engines. What was that engine called? 

A. I think there was but one. That was called the Norwich engine. 
It arrived Sunday, and was at the Are at the corner of Summer and 
Washington streets, after the explosion. 

Q. Have you been familiar with the playing of the Boston engines 
previous to this fire? 

A. I have not been, except as an occasional spectator. I was three 
years on the hose, in the days of the volunteers, as a young fireman. 

Q. I mean these same steamers? 

A. I have had no experience with these steamers, except I have 
always supposed we had a power that could not be tired out and that 
was equal to any height or quantity of water. 

Q. Who was it that spoke to you of the Boston engines as second or 
third class? 

A. I asked a gentleman, who has been in the Fire Department, and 
who has been present before you and testified this afternoon (Mr. 
Marston) in regard to it, and I have asked the question of three or four 
others, firemen, until I became satisfied, from the various answers, that 
we had no first-class engines. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) Did you notice any want of water during that 
night? 

A. I heard that there was no water to be had at the corner of Frank- 
lin street. Sometime between eleven and twelve o'clock, the report came 
down, " No water ; " but nowhere else did I hear it. There seemed to 
be an abundance of water on the Summer-street side, but it was wasted, 
generally, on the third stories. 

Q. May there not have been a short supply even there, so that the 
engines could not work with their usual efficiency? 

A. 1 never saw so great a quantity of water poured upon a fire as I 
saw in Summer street, from the various pipes ; but they were playing, I 
think, generally, two or three streams instead of one. In fiict, I put the 
question to some of the firemen, when the fire crossed to Church Green, 
if they could not, by using one stream, reach the fire, and the}' said no. 
The thought that struck me was, that we wanted high service rather 
than quantity ; we wanted to reach the fire. 

Q. Did 3'ou hear anything about there being a scarcity of fuel that 
nigiit? 

A. Yes, sir, I think they were waiting for fuel near the Old South 
Church. 

Q. Had the engine stopped ? 

A. The engine was stopped. 

Q. Was it a Boston engine ? 

A. I think it was a Boston engine, but I would not speak with any 
certainty. I know that at one time, and I think it was there, an engine 
was stopping for want of fuel. 

Q. You spoke of seeing several engines stop during the night? 

A. No ; early in the evening, on the south side, there were a number 
not playing. ' 



500 

Q. What did they appear to be doing? 

A. Standing and waiting for orders. They may have arrived from 
out of town. I was so anxious and so excited myself, and in pursuit of 
one object, that I did not pay the attention which I think I should a 
second time, as to the names of the engines and other matters. But the 
number of engines on the south side of the fire surprised me. I said to 
myself, or took it for granted, that they were help from outside, but I 
have no knowledge of their being such. 

HENRY HUNTING, sioorn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) At about what time did you reach the fire? 

A. I should judge, as near as I can calculate, between four or five 
minutes after the alarm was struck. 

Q. Are you connected with the department? 

A. Not at present. 

Q. How long were you connected with it? 

A. About eight years, I think. 

Q. What was the condition of the fire when you reached it? 

A. The entire upper story of the building in which the fire took 
appeared to be in flames. 

Q. How many engines were there, hose and apparatus? 

A. I saw at that time but one. 

Q. AVhat was that? 

A. That was the engine that I assisted to the fire — No. 4 — and their 
carriage. 

Q. Did 3'ou go from the engine-house? 

A. I did. 

Q. How long did it take No. 4 to reach the fire? 

A. I stated on Sunday morning, and I should adhere to it, not over 
four minutes. 

Q. From the time of the alarm ? 

A. Yes, sir ; I speak of the carriage. The engine was later. 

Q. How long after the fire-alarm did the engine reach the fire? 

A. I cannot state positively, but very soon. I know that before we 
had fully completed our connections from the carriage to the hydrant, 
the engine arrived. 

Q. How soon did you get water on the fire? 

A. The hose was run towards the fire immediately, but whether there 
was any water put on the fire I can't state. I superintended the hydrant 
myself, and turned on the water, but whether the men had got their pipe 
on the building, I am unable to testify. 

Q. How soon was water thrown by the engine on the building? 

A. Not very soon from this particular engine, from the fact that before 
they got connected, they were obliged to move, on account of the extreme 
heat, etc. They were directed to move by the Chief. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) Then you did no work until after the Chief got 
there and gave the order to move? 

A. No, sir, the engine did not get to work. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) How many minutes do you think it was after 
the fire-alarm before you got water on the fire from st ..mer No. 4 ? 



501 

A. I should judge it was ten oi* twelve minutes, perhaps. 

Q. Do you know anything about the arrival of other steamers ? 

A. No, sir, I don't, only in the case of No. 18. I happened on this 
night to be in No. 4's house. It being a company which I formerly 
commanded, when it was No. 11, under the City Hall, many years ago, 
I have always felt an interest in it, and occasionally drop into the house, 
and I happened to be in there when this alarm came in. The carriage 
was put in front of the engine, the order from the Chief being for the 
carriage to run in case of fire, and the engine to follow. There were no 
horses in the house ; they had been taken out and were in Grove street. 
The moment that the alarm struck, we sprung for the reel, opened the 
doors of the engine-house, and run off the rope. We were obliged to 
wait until we got the number of the station, inasmuch as the company 
does not run except to certain stations. As soon as I got the number — 
52 — I took the head of the rope, passed down Brattle street into Ex- 
change street, through Exchange into State, and then across to Devon- 
shire. The light of the fire was quite plain as we entered Devonshire 
from State. We ran directly through, and took the hydrant at the corner 
of Kingston and Summer streets. It will occur to you that we must 
have been in very good season to have taken that hydrant, as it was the 
nearest hj-drant to the fire, and there were other companies very much 
nearer to that station than No. 4's company. We attached to the 
hydrant, and the hose was led off towards the fire. I have heard that 
the pipe was taken into the building, but it would be of very little use to 
take a pipe in there with a hj'drant stream. 

Q. Do you think yo\x were later than you would have been if you had 
had horses ? ~ 

A. I think the engine could have made better time with horses. ; 

Q. How much? 

A. Not much. 

Q. IIow many minutes? 

A. I should think they could have got there a minute sooner. That is 
my idea, from what I have seen of their movements. 

Q. Were they prepared to work when they got there? Was steam up? 

A. The engine had steam, yes, sir. 

Q. How long did you remain at the fire? 

A. I stayed there until about a quarter-past eleven. I cannot say any- 
thing about the spread of the fire, as I did not attend to it at all. The 
place where the engine stood was a very warm place, and I concluded to 
stay there until we got out of it, and did stay there until the engine was 
hauled out. We then went to draft at the reservoir on Chauncy street, and 
until this time I saw no other engine except No. 10. She stood at the 
corner of Arch and Summer streets. That was the only engine I saw. 
Where the department was located, I don't know. 

Q. Did you see the fire cross Summer street to Otis street? 

A. I did. 

Q. What was done to prevent it ? 

A. Streams were thrown from the street, — I saw some few, — and an 
attempt made to take hose into the building. I don't know that any was 
taken in, but I think there was. I think there was a long ladder put up 
on Otis street, on the building at the corner of Summer and Otis. I am 



502 

pretty confident, although I can't say positively, that a line of hose was 
up. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) Did the streams play from the street on to 
the roofs of the buildings? 

A. No, sir, not effectively. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Could not hose have been carried up in the 
buildings ? 

A. From Otis street, I think very likely it could, and, as I said, 
there were ladders put up there, but whether those streams were taken in 
there to any effect I can't say. I hardly moved from the position I first 
took until the engine was taken off; until the wall fell and broke the 
connection of the engines, so that we could get no water. Then we were 
obliged, as a mfi^tter of course, having no water, to fall back. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) Do you think the engines played as well as 
usual when they first got to work ? 

A. I should say so, yes, sir. I know No. 4 was run with verj' little 
water, so as to make steam rapidly. I know that when a large 
piece of granite fell and cut our connections, the fires were pulled imme- 
diately, in order to save the engine, because she was running very low. 

JOHN COLLAMORE, swor7i. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) At what time did you reach the fire? 

A. I think about half-past seven o'clock ; as soon as I heard the first 
alarm. 

Q. Will you state anything that you noticed at the fire that you think 
we ought to know? 

A. Of course, it' is not gracious to criticise any one, when he is doing all 
that it is possible to do, nor is it considered, I think, a very great thing 
to be a prophet after the event. But it does seem to me that the fire 
ought never to have crossed Ilawley street. That is to say, if we could 
have got a supply of water and enough engines. Trinity Church ought 
never to have been allowed to burn. I think the firemen should have 
gone right into Trinity Church and fought the fire through the windows. 
There were no dormers there. There was the Mercantile Building, — not 
a high building ; and there was a rear passage-way to Arch street, and 
there was a large space where the rear of the stores came, and anj'body 
could have stood on George Winslow's roof, and played right down on 
the fire. There is no use in playing on the two lower stories of a stone 
building, when the upper stories are on fire. It don't amount to anything 
at all. There was an engine stationed in Ilawley street, between Sum- 
mer and Franklin streets, and I think the men might have gone up the 
passage-way leading to the rear ofMacullar, AViliiams & Parker's, and 
fought the fire there, or gone into the passage-way on the other side, or 
gone into Mr. Donahoe's building, on the corner, and taken the carpets 
and hung them over the windows and kept them wet. I think if there 
had been one-half the energy displayed there that was manifested to save 
Hovey's, nothing would have been burned west of Ilawley street. I do 
not say it was the ftiult of the Engineers. There might have been the 
same difl3culty that there was at the head of Franklin street, when the 
reservoir gave out. There stood an engine, but there was no water. 



503 



The engine at the corner of Bromfield street at times got water, and 
sometimes it did not. There was great want of water. The store soutli 
of me was where George Warren formerly kept a carpet store, only a 
two-story building, and I could have stood at my back window and 
pla3'ed directly on that, if [ could only have got a stream of water. I 
did not see anj'body who had any water to spare, although I tried three 
hours. My store never went down uuiil half-past five o'clock Sunday 
morning. They stood and played on the carpet store, and after a while 
they knocked in the windows of my store, but I saw it was no use then. 
They ought to have gone in on the back side, and protected it in that 
way. If they could have gone directly into White, Brown & Davis', 
on the north-west corner of Franklin and Ilawley streets, and pla^yed on 
the building on the opposite corner, they might have stopped the tire in 
that direction. On the east side of Ilawley street, most of the buddings 
were common brick buildings, not more than thirtj'-five or forty feet high, 
and if they could have massed a force there (I do not say whether they 
could or not), they might have prevented the fire from spreading to the 
west side, for, as I view it, there were no high buildings there, such as 
would endanger the west side of Ilawley street. Of course, the store of 
Burrage Brothers, and another on the opposite side (I forget the name 
of the occupant), were the two points that were dangerous for the west side 
of the street. 

I think, sir, that after twelve o'clock, I saw no Boston engine there. 
I labored very hard with two out-of-town Engineers to get them to take 
a stream through this building, and Sheriff Clark labored in the same direc- 
tion ; but it was of no avail. They said, " Get one of the Boston Engin- 
eers ; we are under their orders ; we are out-of-town engines." After the 
fire got into the buildings on the west side of Ilawley street, it worked up 
very fast. 

I think the great want, — as I say, I watched it very quietly, although 
very anxiously, and I dare say I might have felt very anxious, knowing 
one of my stores had gone, and the other was going, — I think the great 
want was water ; and my impression is, that our apparatus is not all that 
it should be. I was myself connected with the Fire Department, as an 
Engineer, with Col. Amory, and our hand-engines, in the olden time, had 
the ordinary four-inch and eight-inch pipe, and two-and-a-half-inch noz- 
zle. Now, the steam engines have only four-inch pipes. They want 
more water. If they have got to go to a street where there is a large 
main, they may have to go through two streets to get their line where it 
will reach the fire, and they have not a sufficient supply. I think it is a 
very great protection to our city that we have the reservoirs we used in 
the olden time. 

Q. (Bj- Mr. Cobb.) Did 3'Ou notice any want of fuel? 

A. While in Winthrop square, a man said to me, '• Have the engines 
burst?" "No," said I, "They are whistling for coal." In two min- 
utes along came a man and asked, " Aren't there any boxes here?" " I 
don't know," I said ; " break open the door, and if there are any there, 
throw them out and break them up ; I will bear you out in it. Take the 
doors, or anything you can get for fuel." I think there should be a 
depot for coal somewhere near the centre of the city, and I think thei-e 
should be two of our best first-class steam engines somewhere iu the 



504 

centre of the city; and also that Capt. Green, of the Fire Brigade, 
should have some tent or shanty in this vicinity, where he can malce his 
head-quarters, instead of being away off in the outskirts. I think the 
city could not spend money to better advantage than to give us two en- 
gines somewhere down Summer street, or round Liberty square, in case 
they are wanted. My experience of some fifteen years as a fireman 
teaches me that the first fifteen minutes after a fire breaks out are 
the all-important minutes. There are occasions when you can supply 
almost everything but time, and you have none of that to spare. The 
Fire Brigade, as I think Mr. Cobb, who has been long connected with 
insurauce companies, is aware, is a wonderful saving. The insurance 
offices support that brigade, and if they could have a place near the 
centre of the city, it would be, I think, most desirable ; and if this 
Commission should deem it of sufficient importance to state to 
the city authorities not only the desirability, but absolute importance, 
of having one or two steam engines and a coal depot near the business 
centre of our city, I think it would have a good effect. I believe the 
Chief Engineer, as long ago as 1868, complained of the small supply of 
water. These small hydrants answered well enough for the hand-engines 
in the olden time; but thi4igs are changed. I know it is very easy to 
criticise, and very easy to fiud fault ; and it did seem to me, as I saw 
some of those men the next day, after their twelve hours' hard work, as 
though they must be iron men, to be able to stand up and hold one of 
those pipes. A great many people, I think, love to grumble ; but to say 
there were no mistakes made that night would not be proper. Of course 
there were mistakes made ; the question is, whether anybody could have 
done any better. 

BENJAMIN H. SAMPSON, sworn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Were you at the fire on Saturday night, 
November 9tli? 

A. I was there on Sunday morning. It was past twelve when I ar- 
rived there. 

Q. Wliat is your position in the Medford Fire Department? 

A. I am Chief Engineer. 

Q. To what point did you first go when you came into town? 

A. I think I went first into Franklin street. 

Q. What part of the street? 

A. Well, the fire was then raging; I can't tell you exactly how far 
down it was ; it was some ways down the street. 
. Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) Did you come in with the steam engine? 

A. Yes, sir, the steam fire engine and two hose carriages, that we have 
in Medford. 

Q. On which side of the street was the fire when you arrived there? 

A. On both sides. 

Q. Where did you put 3^our stream first? 

A. In Congress street. Our steamer was located in State street ; our 
stream was directed down Congress street. 

Q. How long did you remain there? 

A. We remained there until Suuda}"-, about five o'clock in the after- 
noon. 



505 

Q. Did you see anything of the use of gunpowder that night? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Where did you see it used? 

A. I saw it used in Congress street, and in one building near the new 
Post Office — Water street, I believe it is. I believe I saw the first dis- 
charge that was made. 

Q. What was the effect of that first discharge? 

A. It merely blew out the windows. 

Q. Did it do any good? 

A. I did not see that it did. 

Q. Did it do any harm? 

A. I can't say that it did a,ny harm or any good, so far as spreading the 
fire, or arresting its progress, is concerned. It merely blew the windows 
and doors out. 

Q, Where was the second discharge ? 

A. That was in Congress street. 

Q. Do 3'ou know what building it was ? 

A. I don't. I think it was on the corner of Lindall and Congress 
streets. 

Q. What was the efiect of that? 

A. Well, the building was on fire before they had their arrangements 
fully completed, and they had to run and leave it, and the building 
burned down to the powder, and the powder exploded. That is all the 
eflfect I saw of that. 

Q. Did that do any good or any harm? 

A. I did not see as it did. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) How much time did you waste there, when 
your streams were withdrawn ? 

A. I should say it was fifteen or twenty minutes before we dared to 
go near the fire with the hose. We had to wait for the fire to get at the 
powder. They did not get the powder in in season ; the building was on 
fire while they were putting it in, and they got frightened and left. 

Q. Did you see any other explosion? 

A. After that exploded, they then put powder into the next building 
this side of tliat ; I think it was on the corner of Congress and Lindall 
streets. That was put in the second story. 

Q. How did that work? 

A. Tiiat blew out the side of the building next the street completely, 
and tore off" a portion of the roof, which fell in. 

Q. W^as the eifect of that explosion beneficial? 

A. I did not see that it affected the progress of the fire either one way 
or the other. The buildings below that were on fire, and it passed across 
to the street below that, and burned right through. 

Q. Had it passed that point before the explosion took place? 

A. The fire was down below, and passed Lindall street after this ex- 
plosion. I don't think it had before. That was shortly after the ex- 
plosion, because I know we took our hose up into the building opposite 
that, and undertook to play across : but we soon found that the fire was 
on- the same side of the street where we were, near the Post Office. 

Q. Did it catch on the roofs? 

A. I can't say, for I was in the building the greater part of the time 



506 

there ; but as near as I can remember, it took the whole face of the 
building, all the wood-work, the window casings, etc., ignited, and it 
burned right through. 

Q. Wliat was tlie next building you saw l)lown up? 

A. The next building was ou the opposite side of Congress street, a 
small building, occupied as a restaurant. 

Q. How did that work? 

A. The building was completely demolished. 

Q. Did that have a good effect in stopping the fire? 

A. It did, for the time being; but the fire passed that place, and 
burned two or three buildings this side of it, finally. But it made an 
opening, whereby they could reach the fire beyond. If they had had 
sufiflcient water there, perhaps it might have had a beneficial cttect, but as 
it was, it did not arrest the progress of the flames. 

Q. (By Mr. Puilbrick.) Water was lacking there? 

A. Yes ; they had not sufl3cient water to stop the fire. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Didn't they have engines enough, or was 
there a want of water to supply the engines? 

A. Where I was located, there was not a suflacient number of engines. 
I understand (I do not know this personally) that those which were 
connected directly with the water-pipes did not have sufiflcient water. 
Our engine played from a reservoir, and we had water enough all the 
time. The reason why we played from a reservoir was, that we found 
there were two sizes of couplings, and when we got ready to conple on 
to a hydrant, we found we could not do it, because there was a two-inch 
coupling on the hydrant, while ours were two-aud-a-half-inch. Most of 
them are two-and-a-half-inch ; but there appeared to be two sizes in Bos- 
ton. That was a very serious matter. We spent some fifteen or twenty 
minutes in trying to find a reducing coupling. The next day I went and 
had a coupling made, so that, if we were called into Boston again, I 
should not have that difliculty. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) How did the men behave, on the whole, that 
night? 

A. As far as I saw, they behaved very well indeed. 

Q. (By Mr. "Russkll.) Were there any exceptions to that? 

A. Well, I saw some who had plenty of wlii^key, or something simi- 
lar ; but there were very few ca^es of that kind. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) Were those Boston firemen? 

A. No, sir ; they were not. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) Did you get anything to eat for your men 
during Sunday? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Did you have any trouble for want of food? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) Did you have any trouble for want of fuel? 

A. No, sir, I l)elieve not. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) Did you see any people carrying away goods? 

A. Yes, sir; when I first came in, I went down through Pearl street, 
and they were carrying off boots and shoes at a rapid rate. 

Q. Firemen? 

A. No, sir; those appeared to be citizens. 



607 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) Did that distract the attention of 3'oiir men? 

A. No, sir ; tliey were not there at that time. Our steamer did not 
come in until after 1 came in. I went out for her. 

Q. Wliat mauufacture is your steamer? 

A. The Amoslceag Go's. 

Q. Do 5-ou know anything about the comparative merits of yours and 
the Boston steamers? Is yours any better? 

A. Wo consider the Amoskeag engine as good as any there is made. 

Q. Has Boston any of that kind? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Did you see anj'thing to lead you to suppose that the Boston en- 
gines were any better than j^ours, or not so good? 

A. I could not discover any difference. I presume there are some that 
are bettor, and some not as good. Some of Mr. Hnnnemau's steam fire- 
engines are as good engines as there are made in this conntrj'. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Were all the firemen from Medford directly 
under your charge all the time? 

A. Yes, sir ; I believe they were. After we got at work, I believe I 
did not leave until we got through, but once or twice, to get something 
to eat. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) "What time did you go home Sunday? 

A. About five o'clock. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Did you see anybody taking goods from 
Goodyear's rubber store, or any rubber store? 

A. No, sir, I did not. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) From whom did you get directions, when 
you first went to work? 

A. I saw Mr. Damrcll when I came in, and asked him where we should 
go, and he told mo to work in the vicinity of State street and Washing- 
ton street, and try to keep the fire from coming up at that point, which 
we did, and remained there. The last battle we had was in the Post- 
Offlce building. 

Q. Were there any other engines drawing from that reservoir? 

A. Yes, sir, there were three others. 

Q. Did you draw it down so that the water gave out? 

A. Not so but what we could get water. One of the other engines 
had to put in a piece of suction hose. We drew it down, but not dry ; 
not so but what we had plenty of water all the time. 

Adjourned to Friday, at three o'clock. 



508 



SEVENTEENTH DAY. 

Friday Afternoon, December 20. 

WALTER H. STURTEVANT, sworn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) What is your official position? 

A. I am Engineer of Steamer No. 11, located at East Boston. 

Q. At what time did you start for the great fire ? 

A. Somewliere about half-past seven o'clock. 

Q. Have you any means of telling exactly'' ? 

A. No, sir. It was from that to twenty-five minutes to eight o'clock, 
I should think. 

Q. What means have you of knowing what time it was when you 
arrived ? 

A. I went around and looked at the clock on the boiler of my engine. 
It was five minutes of eight. 

Q. Is it your custom to look at it to get the time? 

A. Yes, sir ; it is for me. I generally look to see the time when I 
stai't for the fire, and when I come away from the fij.'e. 

Q. Do you make a record of it ? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. AVhat point did you reach? 

A. I took the hydrant on the corner of Franklin and Devonshire 
streets. 

Q. Which alarm did 5"OU follow? 

A. I think it was the third alarm that we followed. 

Q. Did 3'ou go with horses? 

A. No, we did not. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) How long does it take you, between the same 
points, when you come in with horses? 

A. I should judge that, with the crew we had on that night, we could 
go no quicker with horses. 

Q. Don't 3'ou know as a matter of fact? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. Did you go to the fire at the State-street block? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. How long did it take you to get there? 

A. Twenty-live minutes. We had horses then. 

Q. How long going to Rand &, Avery's? 

A. We were twenty minutes. 

Q. You had horses at both times ? 

A. Yes, sir. 



509 



GEORGE W. BROWN, sivorn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) What U your connection with the Fire De- 
partment ? 

A. I am engine-man of Engine No. 9 ; i. e., I am Engineer. They 
term the Engineers "■ Engine-men." 

Q. Where is the engine located ? 

A. At Perry street, East Boston. 

Q. At what time did 3'ou start for the great fire? 

A. At twenty-seven minutes past seven o'clock. 

Q. How do you know the exact time ? 

A. I looked at the clock when I started. 

Q. What alorm was that? 

A. It was the second alarm. 

Q. At what time did you arrive? 

A. I could not tell you exactly ; I had no way to get the exact time ; 
but, as near as mj^ judgment goes, I should say about thirteen minutes to 
eight, somewhere in that vicinity. 

Q. (By Mr. Fieth.) To what point did 3^ou go? Where did you 
stop? 

A. We went to Church Green, and stopped at the reservoir. 

Q. What would have been the difierence of time, in your opinion, if 
you had had horses ? 

A. I don't think that it would have made any difference whatever. 

Q. Did 3'ou go to the State-street fire? 

A. Yes, sir ; I did. 

Q. How many minutes did that take? 

A. It took about fourteen minutes. 

Q. Did you go to Rand & Aver3''s fire? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. How long did it take for you to get to that fire ? 

A. That took eighteen minutes, for we did not catch the boats in East 
Boston. A great deal depends upon that. In the great fire we caught 
the boat and ran direct on to the boat. We didn't stop at all. We 
started right off. It Avas the same at the State-street fire. At the Rand 
& Aver3' fire there was a dela3\ 

Q. When you came to the State-street fire, and to Rand & Avery's 
fire, did you come with horses ? 

A. Yes, sir. The night of the great fire we had no horses. We had 
them at both of the other fires. 

JOSIAH S. BATTIS, sivorn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) What is 3-our connnection with the Fire De- 
partment? 

A. I am Engineer of Steamer No. 5, of East Boston. It is located at 
Marion street. 

Q. At what time did 3'ou start for the great fire ? 

A. Somewhere in the neighborhood of ten minutes of nine, as near as 
I could judge. I can't tell exactly. 



510 

Q. At what time did j'ou arrive? 

A. That I couhl not tell exactly, but we judged that we were from 
twenty to tweuty-five minutes in going. 

Q. Where did you come? 

A. We came to the corner of South and Summer streets. We caught 
the boat. The boat was waiting for us. We came without horses. 

Q. What would have been the difference in time if you had had 
horses ? 

A. I don't think there would have been any difference, with the horses 
in the state in which they had been. With the horses in the usual state, 
I don't think we could have done it much quicker. We had a large num- 
ber of men. 

Q. About how many men had you ? 

A. I asked the foreman the next da}', and he thought there were one 
hundred and eighty on the rope. 

Q. Did 3'ou come to the State-street fire? 

A. Yes, sir. We came with horses. We judged that we were fifteen 
minutes in coming. "We caught the boat at that time. It was waiting 
for us. We got right aboard. 

It was about the same at the Rand & Avery fire. 

Q. Did the same men come with you all the way from East Boston? 

A. We picked up a good many more. We put an extra rope on 
the engine. We had on a good many men who came clear from the 
engine-house ; it was after the third alarm struck. We did not start on 
the third alarm, but started when we got orders from Chief Engineer 
Damrell. 

GEORGE 0. TWIST, sivorn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) What is your connection with the Fire De- 
partmcuL? 

A. I am attached to Engine No. 2 as Engineer. The engine is 
stationed on Fourth street, between K and L streets, South Boston. 

Q. At what tinie did you stiu't for the great fire? 

A. About quarter to eight o'clock. I could not tell exactly. 

Q. What time did you get there? 

A. Vv e were there, I ihmk, about quarter past eight o'clock, as near 
as I can judj,e. 

Q. How much quicker would you have come if you had had horses? 

A. We did use horses. We got horses at the Broadway, South Bos- 
ton, railroad station. 

The diaw of the Broadway bridge was what detained us. It detained 
us it may be ten minutes. 



JOHN RAY, siuorn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) What is your connection with the Fire Depart- 
ment? 

A. I am engine-man of Engine No. 1 of South Boston, It is located 
on the corner of Fourth and Dorchester streets. 



511 

Q. "What time did you come to the great fire? 

A. I came at the fourth alarm. I could not give the time. 

Q. Can you tell anywhere near the time that you got there ? 

A. I could not state the time when we arrived. I could state about 
the length of time that we were in coming. 

Q. Flow long was it? 

^1. I should say from twelve to fifteen minutes. 

Q. Was it by horses or men? 

A. It was by horses. 

Q. Where did you get the horses ? 

A. They belonged to the company, sir. They were our regular 
horses. 

Q. On the way did you meet with any delay on account of bridges? 

A. No, sir. 

DAVID E GILMAN, sworn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) What is yonv connection with the Fire Depart- 
ment? 

A. I am engineer of Steamer No. 15. 

Q. Where is that located ? 

A. At South Boston, at the junction of Broadway and Dorchester 
avenue. 

Q. What time did j'ou start for the great fire? 

A. It was at eight o'clock. 

Q. Did you look at the clock? 

A. I was looking at the clock to get the time. 

Q. Did 3^ou come with horses ? 

A. We did not come with horses. 

Q. What time did you arrive? 

A. We arrived at five minutes past eight. We started at eight, and 
got there in five minutes. 

Q. Where did you arrive? 

A. It was on Kingston street, at the junction of Kingston and 
Bedford. 

Q. IIow long would it have taken to have come with horses? 

A, It would have taken a little longer, perhaps half a minute. 

Q. How would you have lost half a minute? 

A. On account of the bridge. 

Q. Would you have had to walk across the bridge? 

A. Yes, sir. It would not have been safe to have run across the 
bridge with horses as fast as the men came across. The track was not 
filled up outside of the rail. 

LOUIS BRIGGS, sworn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) What is your connection with the Fire Depart- 
ment? 

A. I am engineer of Engine No. 18. 

Q. Where is that located ? 

A. At Mount Bowdoin, Dorchester. 



512 

Q. How far is that from the burnt district? 

A. We call it about four miles and a half. 

Q. What time did you start for the great fire? 

A. I started immediately on the general alarm. 

Q. Do you know what time that was? 

A. No, sir, not exactly. I have forgotten. 

Q. At what time did you arrive? 

A. We were timed by a man named Rexford. It was fifty-five 
minutes. His place of business is up here in Bedford street. He is in 
the perfumery business. 

Q. At what place did you arrive? 

A. We arrived in Chauncy street. 

Q. Did you come by horse-power or by man-power? 

A. By man-power. 

Q. How much faster would you have come if you had had horses? 

A Not a great deal. 

Q. Did 5'ou ever come over pretty nearly the same route with horses? 

A. Yes, sir ; I did at the Rand & Avery fire, and also at the State- 
Street fire. 

Q. How long did it take you to reach the State-street block on the 
last occasion ? 

A. Forty minutes. 

Q. How long did it take you to reach the Rand & Avery fire? 

A. About the same period. At the State-street fire we had a better 
chance, because it was late at night and the streets were clear. 

Q. How was it when you came to Rand & Avery's fire, in respect to 
the streets being clear? 

A. The. streets were fuller. It was earlier in the evening, and there 
■were more horse-cars running directly down Washington street. We 
wei'e from forty to forty-live minutes coining to the Rand & Avery 
fire. We then took the hydrant where Adams' Express Company used 
to be. We did not go so far at the Rand & Avery fire as we did at the 
State-street fire. 

Q. Did you race with any engine on the way? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. You did not pass any horse-power engine, or have any horse-power 
engine come with you? 

A. No, sir. 

EZRA B, HIBBARD, sioorn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) What is 3'our connection with the Fire De- 
partment? 

A. I am Engineer of Steamer No. 19. 

Q. Where is that located? 

A. At Mattapan, 16th Ward. 

Q. How far do you call that from Church-Green street? 

A. It is about six and a half miles. 

Q. At what time did you start tor the great fire? 

A. At eight o'clock I came out of the house. 

Q. Did 3'ou look at the clock ? 



513 



A. Yes, sir. The clock on the school-house was just striking as we 
started. 

Q At what time did _you arrive? 

A. We arrived at half-past nine o'clock on Purchase street. 

Q. Did you come by hand-power? 

A. Yes, sir ; by hand-power all the way. 

Q. How much quicker do you think you would have come if you had 
Lad horses? 

A. About from fifteen to twenty minutes quicker. 

Q. Did you come to the State-street fire? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. How many minutes did that take? 

A. One hour and five minutes. 

Q. How long to the Rand & Aver}'- fire? 

A. Fifty-five minutes. I had horses on at the two last-named fires. 

Q. What made the difl"erence between the Stale-street fire and the 
Rand & Avery fire ? 

A. "We had a hired horse, which had never worked on the pole before. 
It was the first night he had run, on the night of the State-street fire, 
and he was a little awkward. It was one new horse and one of our old 
ones. At the Rand & Avery fire, wo got a little more speed out of him, 
so that he came in a little quicker. It was one hour and five minutes 
at the State-street fire, and fifty-five minutes at the Rand & Avery fire. 

EUGENE H. FREEMAN, sivorn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) What is your connection with the Fire Depart- 
ment? 

A. I am engine-man of Steamer No. 16. 

Q. Where is that located ? 

A. At Lower Mills, Dorchester. They call it six miles from there to 
the head of State street. 

Q. At what time did you start for the great fire ? 

A. We started on the repetition of the general alarm. I don't re- 
member now just what time it was. 

Q. How long did it take j'ou to come in ? 

A. We were fi ft j'-five minutes. I timed it by my watch. 

Q. Was it horse or hand power? 

A. It was horses. 

Q. Did the team belong to your engine? 

A. No, sir ; they were livery-stable horses. If we had had our own 
horses, we should have come in a little quicker. 

Q. Who hired the horses? 

A. I sent to the stable after them. 

Q. What was the condition of your own horses? 

A. They were badly uscd up. They were the sickest that they had 
been at all at that time. They came down late with the complaint, and 
they had it the very worst ju.st then. 

Q. Can you give any opinion as to how long it would have taken to 
have come without horses ? 

A. I could not. We did not drag our engine entirely by hand. 
33 



514 

Q. To what point did 3^011 come? 

A. We came to Chauncy street. "We were sent there to the reser- 
voir between Summer and Bedford. 

Q. (By Mr. Fihth.) How long did it talce you to come to the State- 
street lire? 

A. We got to State-street block in forty-four minutes with our own 
horses. 

Q. How long did it talce 3'ou to come to the Rand & Avery fire? 

A. We were forty-eight minutes. We came over the upper road that 
niglit, which made it a little farther. 

Q. You liad your own horses at both the State-street fire and the 
Rand & Averj^ fire? 

A. Yes, sir, at both places. 

FRANKLIN MURRAY, sivorn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) What is your connection with the Fire De- 
partment? 

A. I am Engineer and engine-man of Engine No. 20. 

Q, Where is that located? 

A. AtNeponset, in Ward 16. 

Q. How far from tlie head of State street? 

A. I don't know that I can tell you exactly. I believe it is considered 
five miles from the det)ot in Neponsel to the head of State street. 

Q. At wliat time did you start for the great fire? 

A. I started at twenty minutes past eight o'clock. 

Q. What started you ? 

A. We started on the second alarm. 

Q. What time did you arrive? 

A. We arrived in Chauncy street at five minutes before nine. 

Q. Did you come with horses? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Were the}?^ your own horses? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. Were tlie horses hired for the occasion ? 

A. Yes, sir. AVe went out and got them. They were hired by the 
foreman. 

Q. Did he have any orders from any one else about hiring them? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. What was the condition of your own horses? 

A. Tliey were very side. 

Q. Where did you arrive at eight fifty-five? 

A. At Chauncy street. 

Q. Did you go to work there ? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. How long did it take you to come to the State-street fire? 

A. Forty-five minutes with our own horses. 

Q. How long did it take you to come to the Rand & Avery fire? 

A. Thirty-five minutes with tlie same horses. 

Q. What made the difference? 

A. When we came to the State-street fire, it was tlie first time we had 
used them after they were taken sick, and we drove slow. 



515 



CHARLES C. LANE, sicorn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) What is 3'our connection with the Fire Depart- 
ment? 

A. I am engine-man of Steamer No. 17. 

Q. Were is it located? 

A. At Meeting-IIouse Hill. 

Q. How many miles from State street? 

A. I don't know the exact distance. 

Q. What do 3'ou think the distance is? 

A. I think the}^ call it three miles. 

Q. At what time did you start for the great fire? 

A. Quarter to eight o'clock by my watch. 

Q. What time did you arrive? 

A. Quarter past eight. 

Q. Where did you arrive at that time? 

A. At Church-Green. That was by my watch also. 

Q. Was it b^- horse-power or man-power? 

A. It was by hand-power. 

Q. How much quicker could you have come with horses ? 

A. I could not have come any quicker with horses. 

Q. Did you pass any horse team or did any horse-team engine pass 
you? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. How long did it take you to get to the State-street fire? 

A. Forty minutes, as near as I can judge. I did not take the time 
■when I came in, but we ran the biggest part of the way coming in. The 
horses did not come any faster than we came by hand. Thej'' were the 
regular horses on the engine. They were sick. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) How was it at the Rand & Avery fire, as near as 
you can judge? 

A. We came in in thirty-five minutes. 

Q. Did j^ou take the time? 

A. I took the- time when we started — not when we came in. It was 
not the same horses. I came in with a hose-carriage horse at that fire. 
He is now dead. He did not live but three or four days after that 
fire. 

JAMES T. COLE, sworn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) What engine are you attached to? 

A. Engine No. 12, as engine-man. 

Q. Where is it located ? 

A. At the corner of Warren and Dudley streets, in the Highland 
district. 

Q. What alarm caused you to start for the great fire? 

A. We started for the great fire on the fourth alarm. 

Q. At what time did you arrive ? 

A. I could not give you the exact time. It was twentj'^ minutes from 
the house to the hydrant, with all the connections made. 



516 

Q. Where did you arrive ? 

A. At the hydrant at the corner of Bedford and Columbia street. 

Q. How far do you call it ? 

A. It is somewhat over eleven thousand feet. I forget the exact num- 
ber. I did measure it on the map. It was a trifle over two miles. 

Q. Did you come by horse or hand power ? 

A. By hand-power. 

Q. How much quicker would you have come if you had had horses? I 
mean good horses. 

A. I think we could have bettered it some five minutes, perhaps more. 

Q. How many minutes did it take you to come to the State-street 
fire? 

A. That I could not say, only to guess at it. I should say twenty to 
twenty-five minutes. We had the horses that belonged to the engine. 

Q. Did 3^ou take the time at Rand & Avery's? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. How did you know that j^ou came in twenty minutes ? 

A. There was a gentleman who came with us who timed it ; we came 
on the run all the way. I can run considerable, and I had to get on and 
ride twice. Every now and then fresh men would run out and jump on to 
the ropes. 

Q. Who was the gentleman who timed 5^ou ? 

A. His name is Henry Morse. He lives in the Highland district, on 
Warren street. I don't know the number. 



THOMAS NANNERY, sworn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) What is you connection with the Fire Depart- 
ment? 

A. I am attached to Engine No. 14, as engine-man. 

Q. Where is that engine? 

A. At Centre street, Boston Highlands. 

Q. How far out on Centre street? 

A. It is within two hundred feet of being three miles from State 
street. 

Q. What time did you start for the great fire? 

A. Well, sir, that is more than I can answer. I was on my vacation 
at the time of the great fire. I went to the great fire myself. I started 
off before the engine. I was eating my supper at the time I heard the 
alarm. 

Q. Did you come in to the State-street fire with the engine? 

A. Yes, sir. We came in in twenty minutes with our horses. 

Q. How was it at the Rand & Avery fire? 

A. It was just about the same time, twenty minutes. 

Q. On both those occasions was steam up when you got there? 

A. Yes, sir, the steam was all ready. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) Who did come in with your engine and take your 
place at the great fire? 

A. Mr. Raymond. I have got the time from those who did come with 
the engine. It was twenty-five minutes. 



517 

Q. "Where did they locate with the engine? 

A. At the corner of Otis and Franklin streets. 

Q. How was the engine drawn ? 

A. It was drawn by horses that night. It was our own team. They 
were not very well, and so the driver did not hurry them so much as he 
otherwise would have done. 

OILMAN TYNG, sioorn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) What is j'our connection with the Fire De- 
partment? 

A. I am on Engine No. 10. 

Q. Where is it located ? 

A. At the corner of River and Mount Vernon streets. I am Engineer 
of the engine. 

Q. At what time did j'ou start for the great fire? 

A. I could not say at what time we did start. We started when the 
first alarm w^as given, at about 7^ o'clock. We started as soon as the first 
alarm was given. 

Q. Do you know at what time you arrived ? 

A. No, sir, I don't know exactl3^ 

Q. As near as you could tell, about how many minutes? 

A. I should think that if we came in in ten or twelve minutes that we 
were doing ver}^ well. Some tweDt3'-five or thirty men thought that 
would be tlietime that we came in on. I don't know exactly. 

Q. How much quicker would j'on have come in with horses? 

A. It might have made a minute's difference. I don't know that it 
would have made that much difierence. I had, I guess, all of one hun- 
dred men. 

Q. Where did j'ou go? 

A. We came right in by Boylston street, right down Essex street, and 
stopped at the corner of Arch and Summer streets. 

Q. When you went to the State-street fire did you have horses ? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. How many minutes were you in coming? 

A. I calculated that we came in to the State-street fire in eight or nine 
minutes. We came in pretty lively. I thought we had had fires enough, 
and that I would come in fast this time. I don't think it was more than 
six minutes. We had a nice, clear road, and went along pretty lively. 

THEODORE HUTCHINGS, sworn, 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) What is your connection with the Fire De- 
partment? 

A. I am Engineer of Eagle engine No. 3. 

Q. Where is it located? 

-^1. On Washington street, near the corner of Dover. 

Q. At what time did you start for the great fire? 

A. Somewhere about thirty -five or thirty-six minutes past seven. I 
can't tell exactly. 

Q. Did you look at the clock ? 



518 ' 

A. No, sir. 

Q. "What alarm was it? 

A. We had got out of the door before the third alarm struck, having 
seen the fire. 

Q. Do 3-ou know at what time yon arrived? 

A. I could not tell. Probably it was some eight or ten minutes from 
the time we started. 

Q. How much faster could you have come if you had had horses? 

A. I should think one quarter faster, or in that vicinity 
somewhere. 

Q. To what spot did 3'ou come? 

A. We came to the corner of Kingston and Bedford streets, directly 
opposite the fire. 

Q. How long did it take you to go to the State-street fire? 

A. I should think somewhere about thirteen or fourteen minutes. 

Q. Did 3'ou have horses ? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. How long to Rand and Avery's fire? 

A. About the same time as the State-street fire. It may be a minute 
less. 

Q. You did not time either of these, did you? 

A. No, sir. 

DEXTER R. DEARING, remlUa. 

Q, (By Mr. Russell.) You belong to No. 4, situated in Brattle 
square? 

A. Yes, sir, it was formerly. It isn't now. 

Q. What time did 3'ou start for tlie great fire? 

A. It was inside of seven minutes alter the first alarm sounded that 
we arrived at the fire. 

Q. Did 3'ou time it by your watch ? 

A. No, sir. I had all I could do to get ready. 

Q. How long did it take 30U to come to the State-street fire? 

A. I should think that it took four minutes. 

Q. Did 3'ou use horses? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. At tlie Rand & Avery fire 3'ou did not use horses? 

A. AVe used horses, but we were there connecting when the bell struck. 
I started the engine myself, coming awa}' in my plain coat. 



CHARLES RILEY, sivorn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) What is your place in the Fire Department? 
A. P^nginccr of Steamer No. 7. 
Q. Where is it located? 

A. At East-street place, which majces up on the corner of East street. 
The engine-house is about half wixy down. 

Q. At what time did j^ou start for the great fire? 
A. I don't know what time it was. 



519 

Q. "Was it before tlie alarm or after? 

A. It was before the alarm. I was on the way before the bell struck. 

Q. How long after you started did the bell strike ? 

A. It mighthave been four or five seconds, I should judge. I was 
out of the house. 

Q. Where did you go? 

A. To the corner of Lincoln and Bedford streets. 

Q. How many minutes did it take you to get there? 

A. I don't know exactly, of course. As near as I can tell, it took me 
about a minute and a half — not over that, to the best of my judgment. 

Q. How far is it ? 

A. Eeally, I don't know, — it is but a short distance. 

Q. How soon did you have a stream on the fire ? 

A. I should judge that we had a stream on in not far from four min- 
utes. It was inside of five, I should say. 

Q. Do 5'ou mean from the time you started? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Did you have steam up fully? 

A. No, sir; not a full head. 

Q. Did you use the steam in four minutes? 

A. I got the hydrant stream on in four minutes from the time! started, 
and steam on a minute later. I have liot water in my boiler nearly up 
to the boiling point all the time, and I had it at that time. 

Q. Did you have plenty of fuel when you begun? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Did you get out of coal at any time? 

A. Yes, sir, I got out, but not to lose any steam, however. 

Q. How soon did j'ou get out of coal? 

A. It was in perhaps an hour. 

Q. Whore did you go for fuel ? ' ' 

A. It was brought to me by a team and horses. 

Q. Didn't you use any fuel besides coal ? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. What did you use? 

A. It was cases and boxes. Those were also brought to me. 

Q. Who brought the boxes to you ? 

A. I could not toll you. They were brought by citizens. 

Q. Was any wood brought to you ? 

A. No, sir. 

BROWN S. FLANDERS, sworn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) What is your place in the Fire Department? 

A. I am Engineer of Steamer No. 8, stationed at Salem street, be- 
tween Parmenter and Prince. 

Q. At what time did you start for the great fire? 

A. At the second alarm. 

Q. Did 3'ou notice the time? 

A. It was about twenty minutes past seven o'clock — within a minute 
or two. I noticed it by the clock on the engine-house. It might vary. 

Q. At what time did you arrive at the fire ? 



520 

A. I have no means of knowing when we arrived at the fire. It is not 
customary to time us. To the best of my knowledge, it was eight and a 
half minutes. 

Q. How much faster should you have gone if you had had horses? 

A. I could not say. 

Q. What point did 3'ou go to? 

A. I went to the south-west corner of Winthrop square, — the corner 
of Beebe's building, at the opposite side of the street. 

Q. Could you have gone any faster if you had had horses? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Did you ever time the steamer going to a fire about the same dis- 
tance ? 

A. We have been timed repeatedly by other parties. I never have 
timed it. I should judge it was from five to six minutes to a point about 
that distance off. 

Q. When you said you went in eight and a half minutes, what time 
was that ? 

A. It was from the time when we started from the house. 

Q. Now, from the time you started from the house to the time j^'ou got 
to the other fire was how much? 

A. It was five and a half minutes with horses. I should judge about 
that. 

JOHN C. TRAVER, stvorn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) What is your place in the Fire Department? 

A. I am Engineer of Steamer No. 6. 

Q. Where is that located? 

A. At Wall street. 

Q. At what time did you start for the great fire? 

A. I don't know what time it was. It was at the third alarm. 

Q. How long did it take you to reach the fire? 

A. It was about ten minutes. 

Q. That was not by the watch, I suppose? 

A. It was only estimated to the best of my judgment. 

Q. Where did 3'ou go? 

A. We were located at the corner of Devonshire and Summer streets. 

Q. How long would it have taken you to go with horses ? 

A. 1 don't know exactl3^' Our time, I believe, is about eight minutes 
to that box with horses. 

Q. That is something you have talked about before, is it? 

A. We have been timed with horses at that box, and they allowed us 
eight minutes. 

Q. It might vary two or three minutes? 

A. Oh, certainly, three minutes. It depends upon whether the street 
is blocked up or not. 

Q. Have you ever been timed with hand and horse power, at the same 
point, or to any point? 

A. We have not, sir, to my knowledge. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) You went that night with hand-power ? 

A. Yes, sir. 



521 

Q. You don't know how many minutes jou were going to tlie Con- 
gress-street fire? 

A. No, sir ; I do not know of anybody who timed us. Sometimes 
gentlemen outside will time us, and tell us. 

Q. "Were you timed when you went to the State-street block? 

A. No, sir ; we did not go ; we were at work on the ruins. "We had 
steam on all ready to make connections. 

GEORGE W. BIRD, sivorn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) "When were you Chief Engineer of the Fire 
Department? 

A. I have been out about five years now, sir. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) Can you state where the hand engines were 
placed when you were Chief Engineer? I mean those about the burned 
district? 

A. "Well, sir, we had one stationed on East street, and one on Pui'chase 
street, and one on Franklin street in that location, and a hook-and-ladder 
truck we had on High street. 

Q. Did you have anything on School street? 

A. No, sir ; there was nothing on School street. There was one un- 
der the City Hall. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) "Were there no steamers? 

A. "VVhen I was Chief Engineer, it was entirely changed from hand to 
steam. 1 changed it myself, and there was no hand engine when I left 
it. 

Q. "Were there steamers then at these points you have mentioned ? 

A. No, sir, — none at City Hall. There was one at Scollay's build- 
ing — moved from there to the City Hall. I could not give the exact 
date when they were changed. The 3'early report of the Chief Engineer 
will show that. 

Q. Do you remember the year the change was made? 

A. No, sir, I don't know that I do exactly. I am not ver}^ good on 
dates. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) "Were the steam fire engines in that vicinity any 
difl'erenlly located when you left from what they ai'e now? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. "Where were they? 

A. No, 7, which is located now in East street, was then located in 
Purchase street. It was located at that place when Mr. Hatch was 
Chairman of the Committee on the Fire Department. 

Q. Do 3'ou remember when the engine on Franklin street was moved? 

A. There was one steamer on Franklin street. All the others were 
hand engines. 

Q. Tlie one in City Hall was also a hand engine? 

A. Yes, sir. 

JOSEPH BIRD, sivorn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) "Where do you live ? 

A. 1 reside in "Watertown. Mount Auburn is my Post-Office address. 



522 

Q. "What connection have j-ou had with the Fire Department at any 
time ? 

A, Simply since the great fire in Charlestown, in 1835, I have been 
watching to see liow the department could be made better — seeing how 
we could have less fires. 

Q. Did 3^ou come in at the great fire? 

A. No, sir, I was sick. 

Q. Had 3'Ou foretold something of this kind? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. You were the author of an article in the "Advertiser" ? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Tlierc was a reprint of that on the Mondaj' after the fire? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Tliat which you now produce is 3'our statement? 

A. Yes, sir. I ought to say, also, that tliat account is an account of 
what miglit happen in a gale of wind. The same month I wrote after- 
wards upon the subject of the Mansard roofs, and I wrote what would 
be the result if there was not a gale of wind. I can give you that also. 

Q. We would like to see it. 

A. I have it here. It is in the paper dated November 25, 1871. It 
is headed, " 3Iansard Roofs." It is as follows : — [Reads.] 

"In my paper upon ' Mansard Roof Buildings,' I only wrote of the danger to a city if a fire should 
occur in a gale of wind. I shall now show how much more likely a fire will tte to take in them than 
Jn others when there is not a gale of wind. E.xamine one of the Montrose buildings running up *o 
the lieavens, and then go to State street and look at the fine stores not so high by two or three stories. 
What do you lind ? Every room in the common-sense buildings on State street will be found to be 
let to good, responsible tenants; while rooms without munber away up in dangerous buildings are 
now and will be to let. While not occupied they become filled up "with all sorts of merchandise — 
perfect tinder-boxes, to go off as the cigar or pipe-smoker throws his lighted match among them. But 
many of them will be owned by per.sous who have their money so invested that they must be let. 
WHiat is then to be the result? Why, that teiumts of no character, or of only doubtful business 
reputation, flock to them — occupations of the most dangerous kinds — such as the workmen on jute, 
so dangerous that it should be banished from all cities except in bales; nitro-glycerine, dualin, the 
makingof torpedoes, or other kinds especially dangerous, will be carried on in them. And this is 
not all. Business falls away. Money is hard to procure, and creditors must have money to pay 
their debts. 

'• Go to the insurance ofllcc where your property is insured and ask the President whom you can 
address, what will most likely bo the result of having such business tenants in the times that tries 
men's souls and the patience of in.surauce people. The ollicers of insurance companies know all 
about this. But let me tell them that they don't know yet the full danger to their insured property 
if these Mansard roof buildings once get on fire in a gale of wind. 

" They m.ay seem, to those whom they insure in such neighborhoods, to charge very high rates; but 
time win prove that if stern measures are not soon applied, merchants' banks and insurance com- 
panies will be involved in one common ruin. 

■' What happened at the Chicago fire? When it had burned a mile or two of the small houses, it 
came in the direct line of the gale to the great, beautiful and magnificent erections, most of which 
were covered with Mansard roofs. Now, indeed, it became a hell of fire. It went with redoubled 
speed on its fell work of destruction, with the wind. 

" But that was not all, northe worst of it. Those great structures made the heat so great that they 
set the neighboring buildings on fire against or heliind the wind. The fire, when it came to them, 
spread not alone in (he direction of the wind, but on each side aud in spite of it, and near $200,000,000 
■were destroyed of the most valuable property of Chicago." 

The point is that it showed here just exactl^^ what must happen without 
a gale of wind : that the heat would throw tliis fire in every direction 
where Mansard roofs were near enough to it. 

There is one thing that I would like to say, gentlemen, and that is, 
that there is a very large part of Boston that has Mansard roofs now, 
and needs protection. But the powers that be — as it was in the United 
Slates army when the war began — never move. 

There is a power capable of stopping every one of these. There is a 



523 

power, which should have been used, which has been pressed upon the 
city for four years, which would have made it perfectly safe at that fire. 

Q. What is it? 

A. It is simply a small portable engine carried on to the roof, — carried 
up to the Mansard roof. There is not to-day (for I have been over the 
city with my team), where there are not windows from which you may 
stand and reach out with a small hose from one of these engines and 
throw water back on to the Mansard roof so that you can strike all of 
these exposed places in less than ten feet, and everj^ one of these small 
engines can play thirty feet [illustrating and exhibiting one of the small 
engines referred to]. Suppose that to be the fire up by that window. 
The man goes up on to that roof with his hand covered with wet woollen 
cloths. Pie puts his hand out and plays back upon that roof. The 
building is just as safe as if it were in the Atlantic Ocean. 

Gardiner Brewer wrote an excellent article the other da}^, in which he 
said that he was going to have a Fire Department of his own. I went 
to his house and took this engine which I now hold in my hand. I have 
no pecuniary interest in any engine except one, in which I lost a 
thousand dollars several j-ears ago. 

Q. Where would you have got water to have used in a case like this 
of the great fire ? 

A. Hovey's place was saved without even an engine, and they got 
"water with perfect ease. 

Q. They would not have got it without their elevator. Thej' got it 
■with tremendous exertions. 

A. It would have been a great deal better to have saved the first 
building with a great deal of exertion, than to have burnt up the whole 
district. 

Q. At that time ever^-bod}^ was gone home and locked up. 

A. I understand the objection, but let me sa}' that 3,000 of these little 
engines, such as I have in my hand, playing a great deal more water than 
all the present engines of the city of Boston, will not cost half as much, 
and the expense of their working will not cost half as much as one 
steam fire engine. You must designate those of the police who are to 
use them. ^\''e will say that it is known that you are a good man for the 
purpose, and I am not. It is to be placed in your house, and if through 
your means it puts out the fire before it spreads, you shall have five 
dollars. 

Suppose every hay place has them, every hotel stable has them, we 
will sa}-, and is obliged to have them. 

I can show you old laws of the cit}^ of New York, by which it is pro- 
vided that every house-keeper shall have a leather bucket, and every 
baker three, and every brewer six. 

1 would have put up over every door directions how to use this engine. 
The people may just as easily be taught to fight fire as to be terrified by 
it. Now, if there is a fire, men, women and children become terrified 
and run away from it. People can be taught so as to act witli presence 
of mind at the time of a fire, so that a woman or even a girl shall put it 
out. Dr. Hill, of Waltham, while President of Harvard College, taught 
his children what to do in case of a fire ; and once his son while in col- 
lege woke up and found the room badly on fire. He knew just what to 



524 

do. The water was frozen up except one pump, and he had but one 
single pail. lie put the water on in little dashes at a time, and then 
went back again and got more, and in this way put the fire out. 

The simple truth is, that people may be taught to put out a fire just 
as they are now taught not to put it out, and thus save the first house 
that the fire struck upon. You would then see men carrying water up 
there with all their might in a minute. I can tell you of fire after fire that 
I have put out simply by acting promptly and judiciously, with very 
small quantities of water thrown by hand. 

Q. I want to know what you think about these open elevators? 

A. They are perfect curses. 

Q. Supposing that they should be shut on every floor? 

A. They should be shut on every floor always. 

Q. Will you go down and look at the one at Wellington & Bros., on 
the corner of Chauncy and Bedford streets? 

A. I will go there and see it before to-morrow night, and I should like 
to have 3^ou see Mr. Downer's method of putting out fires. 

ARTHUR W. HOBART, sioorn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) With what Insurance Company are you con- 
nected ? 

A. The Mutual Benefit lusurance Company. 

Q. Were you at the great fire early ? 

A. Perhaps twenty minutes after the alarm sounded. 

Q. Where did you go? 

A. I went down to Summer street. 

Q. What was the condition of the fire? 

A. The whole building in which the fire originally commenced was 
well on fire. 

Q. It had not crossed the street, had it? 

A. No, sir, it did not until after I reached there. 

Q. Will 3'ou state anything that you saw that you think the Commis- 
sion ought to know .'' 

A. 1 can merely say, that from being there for the next half an hour, 
the impression given me was that I never saw so little force gathered at 
the coumiencement of a fire, as at that ; merely judging from the streams 
of water thrown upon it. Of course I could not see where the engines 
were stationed at all. 

Q. Could you see those playing from Kingston and Bedford streets? 

A. I could see those playing from Summer street and Kingston street, 
where I was standing. 

Q. Do 30U mean that 3^ou could see no others ? 

A. I cuuld not see any othei's. I was in the middle of Summer 
street. 

Q. How many engines should you suppose there were there at the end 
of half an hour after you came? 

A. I can't answer as to engines, but only as to streams. 

Q. How many streams? 

A. I did not see more than five streams of water. 

Q. How far down Summer street were you? 



525 

A. I was down, I should sa}^ where the Post Office was, on the cor- 
ner of Chaunev street, between Chauncy street and Kingston street, in 
the middle of the street. 

Q. Is there any other fact that you noticed? 

A. Nothing more than the progress of the fire. I saw it cross the 
street. 

Q. Did you see any effort made to prevent its catching the north side 
of Summer street? 

A. I did not, sir. 

Q. Was there anybody in those buildings at the corner of Otis street? 

A. That I cannot say. 

Q. Do you know whether there was any stream on? 

A. I saw a stream on after the fire had caught. 

Q. Was it playing from the street? 

A. Yes, sir ; that played from the street. 

Q. Did it do any good ? 

A. No, sir, I should not say that it did. 

Q. How high did it go? 

A. It went up to the fourth-story window, perhaps. 

Q. Did you see any stream from the windows of the adjoining 
building? 

A. I did not. 

Q. Do you know whether it was played ? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) Did it occur to you that something was not 
done that might have been done to prevent the fire from crossing the 
street ? 

A. It merely occurred to me that there was less apparatus with which 
to fight the fire and to prevent its crossing the street than there should 
have been. 

Q. How was the heat? 

A. The heat must have been intense, for this whole corner building 
seemed to be a mass of flame, for the two sides that I could see, on Sum- 
mer street and Kingston street. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) At that time, did it seem to you that an engine 
could have stood upon the street and worked so as to have played upon 
the fire ? 

A. Yes, sir. It need not necessarily have stood beside the fire to 
have reached it. 

Q. Could you see whether there was another engine down Otis street? 

A. No, sir ; I could not see where I stood. 

Q. Did 3'ou see any ladders down Otis street? 

A. That I cannot answer, sir. I supposed there was another matter 
that I was summoned here to testify about. It is this. I had occasion 
to carry my securities from ray office to mj- home, between twelve and 
one o'clock, because I felt that my office would take fire. My office was 
No. 29 State street. On my return, I passed down School street. It 
must have been between one and two o'clock, I should judge. I thought 
I heard a pounding, and Capt. Damrell's voice coming from tiie large 
front door of the City Hall. I of course supposed that I must be mis- 
taken, and I stopped to listen again, and I heard a voice saying, "Let 



526 

me in ! Let me in ! " I knew then that it was Captain Dararell's voice. I 
walked up to the steps and there was Captain Damrell standing on the 
steps with three or four persons around him. He was pounding on the door, 
calling, " Let me in ! " It was the main large door right onSchool street. 
As I approached I heard him say to one of these parties that were stand- 
ing Aviih him, " Doctor, I am all used up. This whole fire is the result of 
the ai'chitects being allowed to pile up their Mansard roofs." I suppose 
it was the end of some conversation that he had been having with a man. 
That was all that I heard of it. 

When I reached him near enough to speak, I said, " "What is the mat- 
ter?" He said, "I want to go in here." — " Well," said I, " the only 
way to get in is on the rear, Court square. That door is open to-night." 
Said he, " I am going in this way, sir." Said I, " Very well, sir, if that 
is the case, I will go around and see if I can get the door open for you." 
I accordingly went around to Court square and went in at the rear door, 
and up stairs, and I thought probably I might open the door. I went to 
the door and found that it was locked. The building was full of people. 
I turned around and saw an officer pretty near, and I asked him if he 
knew Avho had charge of that door. He looked around, and said, "Yes, 
sir ; there is the officer who has the key." Said I, " Will you open this 
door?" Said he, " My orders are not to." Said I, "Yes; but Capt. 
Damrell is out there and wants to come in." Says he, " I suppose I 
must let him in." He went and unlocked the door and let him in. The 
Captain blew the man up for not having the door open. The man told 
him that those were his orders. (I cannot give the words that he used ; 
it was merely in an impatient way, to think the door was closed.) 

Q. At what time should you say that this was? 

A. I should say, without knowing truly, that it was between one and 
two o'clock. 

I followed the Captain up stairs, thinking that I had a right to know 
the cause of his visit at that time. He went to the Mayors room, and 
took his hat off, and sa3's, " Gentlemen, you have sent for me and I have 
come." Said the Mayor, " Well, we sent for you to consider in regard 
to blowing up buildings." " Well," said Capt. Damrell. "my opinion is, 
that it will do more harm than good ; but I suppose that the public opinion 
will demand it, and I have been getting read}^ for the last few hours to 
blow up on Milton place." That was about the whole of the story. They 
then went on to consider the matter of blowing up buildings. 

It was merely the point of Capt. Damrcll's spending so much time in 
trying to get in at that door when he might have gone around. 

Q. How much time was wasted there by him? 

A. I should have said that it was ten minutes. 

Q. Did you understand him to be quoting Metamora, when he said, 
" You have sent for me, and I liave come "? 

A. Those were the words. He said it with the tone of a man who was 
sorry that he had to come. Perhaps the thing made more impression on 
my mind than it should have done, because 1 had a great deal at stake 
in that fire, and every moment was an age to me. To see the Chief of 
the Fire Department spending so much time in tr^'ing to get in at one 
door when he might have got in at another door looked to me as if he had 
not quite got his head at that time, perhaps. 



527 

Q. How did he appear afterwards? 

A That was all that I saw of him. 

Q. After he got up stairs, did you see anything of his manner? 

A. No, sir. All I noticed was that remark that he made when he 
went in. lie said that he had been making preparations to blow up in 
Milton place. 

BENJAMIN F. LEONARD, sworn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) What is your connection with the Fire De- 
partment ? 

A. I am driver of hook-and-ladder truck No. 5, situated in Fourth 
street, near Dorchester street, South Boston. 

Q. At what time did you start for the great fire? 

A. We started on the general alarm. 

Q. You don't know what hour it was? 

A. No, sir, I could not tell. 

Q. Did you start immediately on the general alarm? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. What time did you reach the fire ? 

A. From the time of the general alarm until we were in Summer 
street, I should say it was not over eleven minutes. I only estimated 
it. We came with horses. We had our own team. We could not have 
come at that rate with hand-power. 

Q. What is the distance? 

A. It is hard on to two miles, or one mile and a half. 

Q. How long would it take you to come by hand-power, to the best of 
your judgment? 

A. It would take all of twenty minutes to get there by hand — that is, 
in the way that we should have to pick up a team on such an occasion 
as that. 

Q. Have you ever run two miles with that company and that machine 
by hand ? 

A. No, sir, we never have. 

JOSEPH E. THAYER, sivorn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) What is your connection with the Fire Depart- 
ment? 

A. I am driver of hook-and-ladder truck No. 2, of East Boston. 

Q. At what time did you start for the great fire? 

A. It was about half-past ten o'clock. 

Q. Did you have horses, or did you go by hand-power? 

A. It was hand-power. 

Q. At what time did you arrive? 

A. It was about eleven o'clock. 

Q. Where was it that 3'ou arrived ? 

A. It was in Franklin street. That was the first place. 

Q. Did )'0u catch the boat ? 

A. No, sir, the boot had just started. I was detained fifteen minutes 
on account of the ferry. 



528 

Q. What started you at that late hour? 

A. I am uot authorized to leave the islaud without special orders. 
I am on the only ladder carriage there is in the second Ward, and they 
don't allow me to cross to this side, if tliey can possibl}^ help it, on 
account of its talving so long to get haclv across the ferries. We started 
at half-past ten, and jnst at that time they halloed fire over there, and 
we had to stop and put out a fire on Summer street. East Boston. 

Q. From Sumner street, how long were you coming to the great fire? 

A. I was about twenty minutes ; I don't think I was over that, that is, 
after I got started from tjjo Summer-street fire. I was not fifteen 
minutes in running time. I allow fifteen minutes outside of the boat to 
get to the fire. It is only 1,500 feet that I have to come to reach the 
boat on East Boston side. 

Q. Then, from the Boston side of the ferry to Franklin street, how 
many minutes did it take you that night? 

A. It was not over ten minutes. 

Q. How long would it liave taken you if j^ou had had horses.-' 

A. I don't think I conld have made the time any quicker with horses 
than I did make it. I had eiglity feet of rope, and it was full of men. 
There was a very large company on the rope. I rode myself and 
managed the break to guard against any one's being run over. They 
got along very lively. The carriage is a very light one, and only weighs 
5,500 pounds. It rolls very easy. 

I started at ten o'clock, in the first place, to come to this fire, and as 
we were turning the Sugar House, they halloed fire over there in East 
Boston. It was just a short distance below Sumner street, and we were 
detained there about half an hour by that fire. We used the fire- 
extinguishers on a ladder-carriage until we got a hose-carriage. 

This time is estimated ; I have no time by the watch. 

Q. Did 3-0U come to the State-street fire, and, if so, how long were 
you in getting there? 

A. Yes, I came to the State-street fi.re, and I was about twenty 
minutes in getting there. I also attended the Rand & Avery fire. I 
don't think there was much dillerence in the times of getting to those 
two. 

Q. Did you have horses? 

A. Yes, I had horses both at the State-street fire and at the Rand & 
Avery fire. 

Q. Did you start then with special orders? 

A. No, sir, I went oh the fourth alarm. Under the circumstances of 
this big fire (the men were at work and we were at home), we thought 
it was best to go on that account. 

Q. Do you think with the horses at these two fires that you went no 
faster than you did at the great fire with your men? 

A. No, sir, I don't think, actuall}', that it made difference enough to 
mention. 1 could not sec the difference. 

Q. How does j-our carriage compare with the steamer? 

A. The steamers weigh about 8,500 lbs., and my carriage only weighs 
5,500. 

Q. You spoke about extinguishers. Have j'ou extinguishers? 

A. We keep one in the house. There is au extinguisher wagon in 



529 

East Boston. They carae right down and we used them at the fire. 
Then there was a hose-carriage, and that came and we used that. 

CHARLES BROOKS, sworn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) What is your connection with the Fire De- 
partment? 

A. I am driver of hose-carriage No. 6, stationed at East Boston, 
Chelsea street, fourth section. 

Q. What time did 3'ou start for the great fire? 

A. At half-past ten. I was at another fire when they sent for me. 

Q. Did 3'ou go with horse or with hand-power? 

A. It was with horse-power. 

Q. At what time did you arrive at the fire? 

A. As near as I can judge, it was in about fifteen minutes. 

Q. Was there an}' delay at the bout? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. How long would it have taken you to have come by hand-power? 

A. It ought not to have taken me more than twenty minutes from the 
■square where I left the other fire. 

ALBERT L. PEARSON, sworn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) What is your connection with the Fire De- 
partment? 

A. I am driver of hose-carriage No. 1. 

Q. Where is that located ? 

A. At Salem street. 

Q. At what time did you start for the great fire? 

A. I was not on duty at the great fire at all. 

Q. Did you go to the fire at the great wool warehouse in Congress 
street, two months ago? 

A. Yes, sir. We went by horse-power that night. 

Q. How many minutes did it take to get there? 

A. I should judge that it would take about six and a half minutes, 
4ilthough I liave never taken the time. 

Q. How long would it take to go by hand-power? 

A. I should judge that it would take eight or nine. minutes. 

JOSEPH R. GILBERT, sivorn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) What is your place in the Fire Department? 

A. I am Engineer of Steamer No. 21, stationed on Boston street, Dor- 
•chester district. 

Q. What is the distance from State street? 

A. From State street to Upham's corner is supposed to be three miles, 
and we are a short distance this side of Upham's corner. 

Q. Did you come to the great fire ? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. At what time did j^ou start ? 
34 



530 

A. "We started at twenty minutes before eight o'clock, and arrived at 
eight o'clock. It was by hand-power. 

Q. How did you get tlie seven-forty? 

A. I looked at my watch and made the remark that I would see what 
time it was. 

Q. How long would it have taken you to come with horses? 

A. Provided the horses had been well, we might have made the time 
perhaps some eight minutes different. 

Q. At what alarm did you start? 

A. Upon the fourth alarm. On the first blow on the tapper — before 
the alarm — we started. We were all ready, with rope, waiting for it,. 
"with the doors open. 

THOMAS W. GOWEN, sworn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) What is j'our connection with the Fire De- 
partment? 

A. I am driver of hose-carriage, No. 9. 

Q. Where is it located ? 

A. It is stationed at B street, South Boston. 

Q. At what time did you start for the great fire? 

A. I didn't take the time. I don't know what hour it was. I started 
on the commencement of the general alarm. It was right away, before 
the stroke got through. 

Q. Do you know at what time you arrived? 

A. 1 didn't take the time ; but I should judge not far from eight minutes. 

Q. How did you come — by what power? 

A. It was by hand-power. 

Q. How long would it have taken you to come by horse-power? 

A. I could have come quicker if the horses had been in their usual 
order. 

Q. In how many minutes ? 

A. I could have done it in five minutes. 

Q. Did you come to the State-street block fire ? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Where did you come to in the Summer-street fire? 

A. I came to Church-Green street, and then ran a line from a steamer 
there. 

Q. How long did it take you to come to the State-street block fire ? 

A. I could not tell the precise time, because I did not take it. 

Q. Did you take the time at Hand & Avery's? 

A. No, sir. 

FRANK WALKER, sworn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) What is j^our place in the Fire Department? 

A. I am driver of hose-cnrriage No. 2, situated iu Hudson street. 

Q. At what time did you start for the great fire? 

A. At quarter-past seven. It was before tlie alarm. It was within a 
minute and one-half of seven and a quarter o'clock. It was probably half 
a minute before the alarm. 



531 

Q. How long (lid it take you to get there ? 

A. Three to three and a half minutes. 

Q. Where did you arrive and where did you station your stream? 

A. At the corner of Bedford and Kingston streets. 

Q. How soon did you get a stream on after you got theie? 

A. It was a minute and a hnlf. 

Q. Did you see when the engine arrived? 

A. No, sir, I did not. 

Q. You don't know about that? 

A. No, sir. All I have is a hose-carriage. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) Did you go by hand? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. What difference would it have made if 3'ou had a horse? 

A. It would make about a minute's difference. 

THOMAS MERRITT, stvorn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) What is your place in the Fire Department? 

A. I nm driver p?-o tem. of an Extinguisher wagon. 

Q. Where is that stationed? 

A. At North Grove street. 

Q. At about what time did you start for the great fire? , 

A. I could not exactl}^ state the time. It vvas just as soon as the first 
alarm was struck. It was by hand-power. 

Q. At about what time did 3^ou arrive? 

A. From the time I left the house until I got to the fire was seven 
minutes. 

Q. Do you know exactl3' ? 

A. Yes, sir, very near. I had 150 men on the wagon. 

Q. Would you have come faster if 3'^ou had had horses? 

A. No, sir, not so fast. 

Q. How heavy is the carriage? 

A. About 2,000 lbs., I should judge. There are nine extinguishers 
on it. The wagon weighs about 1,000 or 1,200. 

Q. Did you use the extinguishers? 

A. I could not tell you the stores on which the}' were used. I lost 
five of the nine which I had. 

Q. Do you generally lose them ? 

A. No, sir. I find them good things. 

Q. Are they good in the beginning of afire? 

A. I once saw a fire put out with them down in Chandler's place. It 
saved manj"^ thousand dollars. 

Q. How did it happen that the extinguishers were lost? 

A. The men took them up into the building to put out the fire, and 
they were driven out and had to drop the extinguishers in order to save 
themselves. It was the third building from the corner on the opposite 
side. It was a building that the Chief and fifteen of us were in, trying 
to kill the fire. We were fighting it with these extinguishers ; ai^d if 
they had not driven us off from the roof, we would have done good ser- 
vice with them. The heat drove us off' — the heat from the opposite 
side, and the heat of the building right alongside of it. 



532 

Q. Do 3'on use tlieni on the roof usually? 

A. No, sir. We use them wherever we can get a good chance to got, 
at a fire. They will play some fifteen minutes, by using good, careful 
judgment, 

Q. How man}^ men do you have? 

A. Only two. 

Q. Wiiat kind of extinguishers are these? 

A. They are chemical fire-extinguishers. They are the Babcock ex- 
tinguisher. They weigh eighty pounds. 

Q. Was there anybody else there on the roof with a stream? 

A. Yes, sir. Hose No. 3, and two or three more engines that I could 
not tell. 

Q. Was there any other Engineer there besides the Chief? 

A. Yes, sir ; Capt. Jacobs was there, and two or three more. 

Q. Which way were you playing? Was it up or down the street? 

A. We were playing on to the building next to it — the one towards 
Washington street. It was right opposite the building that took fire. I 
arrived there before the fire crossed Summer street. 

Q. Was that the first thing you did with the extinguishers? 

A. We went on to the buildings around it to try to stop it. There 
was one building where the fire caught in the coving, and we put that 
out. 

Q. How mtiny wagons are there that carry extinguishers? 

A. There are three at present in the department — one located at tlie 
South E)nd, one at North Grove street, and one at East Boston. We 
always start at the very first alarm, anywhere in the cit}-. Extin- 
guisher No. 1 takes the North End, down to Kneeland street ; No. 2, 
from there to Roxbur}'. Ours is No. 1. No. 1 takes everything this 
side of Beach street. Then P^xtinguisher No. 2 takes everything the 
other side to the Roxbury line. If there is a second alarm given, they 
go right to it, with all hands. They carry 400 feet of 2-inch hose, and 
400 feet of 1^-inch hose. The 2-inch hose we use to make connections 
with, with the other hose, in case we want to shift a line of small hose, 
or to carry it up into the attic of some dwelling-house to put out a fire, 
or to connect it with some private faucet. The 2-inch hose is good for 
nothing on a steamer. We take and tap their line. We carry connec- 
tion-pipe branches on purpose for that. Sometimes we have to make a 
fresli-water connection, where they pump salt water to street-engines on 
the wharves. 

Q. No change was made in the rule with 3^our wagon, b}' reason of the 
horse-disease? 

A. No, sir. The wagon did not weigh much, and a hundred and 
fifty men could run away with it. We came almost the same distance 
with horse-power, and could not make the same time. It was at Rand 
& Avery's fire. We could not make as good time. 

At the State-street fire, we could not do as well, because we had a 
good deal to contend with, and there were teams in the way. 



533 



WILLIAM BLAKE, sicorn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) With ^hat machine are 3'ou connected? 

A. With Hose No. 8, located in Cinirch street. 

Q. At what time did you start for tlie great fire? 

A. It was somewhere in the neigliborliood of seven and a quarter o'clock. 
It was immediately upon the first alarm. We calculated that we were 
eight minutes in getting to the fire, as near as we could estimate it. We 
went by hand-power. I don't think we could haA-e gone any quicker with 
a horse. 

Q. Suppose you had had a good horse? 

A. They started out some two minutes or so before I could have done 
in that case, because I should have had to stop and harness. 

Q. To what point did you go? 

A. Right to the corner of Kingston street, right around on to Otis 
street, and took that hydrant on Otis street. 

Q. Where was the hose carried ? 

A. Right up on to the first building that was on fire. 

Q. How soon did you get a stream on after j-ou arrived ? 

A. It was very quick. 

Q. How many minutes? 

A. I heard some of the men say to-night that they didn't think it was 
over two minutes. But then they had to back right out, they said. We 
coupled on to a hydrant. 

Q. When you went to the State-street-block fire, did you have ahorse? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. How many minutes did it take there? 

A. I did not time it. 

Q. You did not time it at Rand & Avery's ? 

A. No, sir. 

HORATIO ELY, sicorn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) What is your place in the Fire Department? 

A. I am driver of Hose-carriage No. 3. 

Q. Where is that stationed ? 

A. In North Grove street. 

Q. What time did you start for the great fire? 

A. I did not start on the first alarm. I started somewhere between 
quarter-past and half-past seven o'clock. I started at the second alarm. 

Q. How long did it take you to get there? 

A. From the time the alarm struck until I got there, I should think 
was somewhere about fifteen minutes, as near as I could judge. I did 
not look at any time-piece. I went directly to Summer street. I took a 
steamer at the corner of Arch street. It was No. 10. 

Q. You went by hand-power, I suppose? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. How long would it have taken j^ou to go by horse-power ? 

A. I don't think it would have taken much less time to have gone 
with horse-power. It might make some little difference. It might make 
five minutes' difference. 



534 

Q. How ranch of a team did j'ou have? 

A. It was very liglit when we got the second alarm. Most of the men 
went on the extinguisher team ; consequently, I had to take what I could 
pick up as I went along. 

Q. What would be the difference between the time of j^our arriving, 
and the time of the wagon arriving with the extinguisher team? 

A. They had a very large team to start with, and it might make some 
six or eight minutes' difference. 

Q. Do you know what time it took you to go to the State-street-block 
fire? 

A. I was sick at that time, Mr. Merritt, who was just in here, drove. 
I was also sick at the Rand & Avery fire. 

Q. After you got to the fire, how soon did you get a stream on it? 

A. I should not think it was more than some three or four minutes. 
We ran tlie hose directly into the building, and word was passed to play 
away. It was in the building on the lefL-hand side of Summer street. 
We took it (the hose) up the stairway to play out of the window, and 
went on to the roof until we were compelled to get off. I drive the car- 
riage and don't have to go into the buildings except once in a while to 
light up the hose, in case of emergency. 

Q. What drove you off of the roof? 

A. It was the fire. I didn't go on the roof myself. I went back to 
the carriage after I got my hose in. 

Q. What building was it that they took the hose into? 

A. I don't know who occupied the building. It was directly opposite 
where the fire was in the first place. It was some three or four doors 
below Otis street. 

G. W. STIMPSON, sworn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) What is your place in the Fire Department? 

A. I am driver of Hose-carriage I^o. 7. 

Q. Where is that located ? 

A. At 1044 Tremont street. 

Q. At what time did you start for the great fire? 

A. It was about half-past seven o'clock. It was at the general alarm. 

Q. At what time did you arrive ? 

A. I arrived there at seven and three-quarters. 

Q. Did 3'ou look at your watch? 

A. No, sir. The estimate I have given is that of one of the hose- 
men. 

Q. Did the hoseman speak from the watch ? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Did he speak from the watch as to the time of starling and ar- 
riving both? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Where did you arrive? 

A. It was in Bedford street. 

Q. How soon did you get a stream on? 

A. It was in about ten minutes. 

Q. AVas it from h3'drant or engine? 



535 



A. It was from engine. 

Q. From what engine? 

A. It was from Steamer 12. 

Q. Wli_y did it take ten minutes? 

A. We" lent one lumdred feet of hose and then went to work. I think 
it was to Engine 15 that we lent it. 

Q. Where was the steam tlirown? 

A. It was thrown in front of Columbia street. 

Q. How long would it have taken you to have gone with horse-po>ver ? 

A. We could have gone there in about thirteen minutes, if not so >ner. 

Q. Did you use horse-power at the State-street fire? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. How long did it take you to get there? 

A. It was twenty minutes. 

Q. To what spot? 

A. In front of the building that was burning — the State-st-eet block. 

Q. Did you use your own horses there? 

A. We used a spare horse. We use onl}' one horse. 

Q. Was he well? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. At the Rand & Avery fire, how long did it take you to get there? 

A. Twenty-five minutes. 

Q. Did you use a sick horse then ; 

A. Yes, sir ; not the same one that I used at the other fire. It was 
another sick horse. 

Q. Suppose that both horses had been in good condition, what diflfer- 
€nce would it have made? 

A. It would not have made more than three minutes either way. I 
misht have saved three minutes if I had had a horse in good condition. 



WILLISTON A. GALORD, sivorn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) What is your connection with the Fire De- 
partment? 

A. I am driver of Extinguisher Wagon No. 2, which is located on Har- 
rison avenue, corner of Wareham street. 

Q. At what time did you start for the great fire? 

A. We started on the second alarm? 

Q. What time did you arrive? 

A. It took us about eight minutes to get down there. 

Q. Was it by hand-power? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Could you have come faster with a horse ? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. How much does the carriage weigh? 

A. We had our extinguishers and hose on the ladder truck all com- 
bined that night. 

Q. Where did you stop when you got to the fire? 

A. It was at the corner of Kingston and Bedford streets. 

Q. What did you do? 



536 

A. Before we had fairly stopped, we were ordered with our Extiii<2;uish- 
ers into a building on Kingston street. I drove Extinguisher Wagon 
No. 2. 

Q. Did you use them anywhere else? 

A. Yes, sir. We used them in dwelling-houses on the left-hand side 
of Kingston street, towards Summer. We stopped the fire in those 
dwelling-houses. 

Q. In how man}' houses did you stop the fire? 

A. Two of those dwelling-houses we used them in, and saved them 
both. There were streams of water on the roof playing across, but 
nothing inside. It was where the fire caught in the window frames and 
in the windows, and burned through on to the plastering. 



SILAS LOVELL, sworn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) What is your position in the Fire Department ? 

A. I am driver of Hose-carriage No. 5. It is stationed in Shawmut 
avenue. No. 398, between Canton and Brookline streets. 

Q. At what time did you start for the great fire? 

A. I started at 7.25. I looked at the clock. I arrived about twenty- 
five minutes to eight o'clock. 

Q. Did you look at your watch then? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Did you have hand-power? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Could 3'ou have gone faster with a horse ? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. No faster with a well horse? 

A. No, sir ; not with the horse I have at the present time. 

Q. How is it with the horse you generally have ? 

A. The one I had previous to that is a very smart horse. This is 
rather an ordinary one. 

Directly after arriving there, — not more than three or four minutes 
after — we attached to Engine No. 22. The stream was put on on. 
Summer street, about opposite from the building that took fire first. 
It was towards Otis street, 

Q. On what part of the building was it thrown ? 

A. It was on the coving. It was thrown from the street. It reached 
the coving. 

Q. Why didn't you put it out? 

A. It was a little too much for one man. 

Q. Did you have to back out? 

A. Yes, sir. We were ordered from the ground up into the fourth 
story of the building. We went up there and played across Summer 
street. 

Q. Who gave that order ? 

A. Capt. Jacobs, I think. It was an Assistant Engineer. We then 
followed along from building to building as the fire drove us. 

Q. Did 3'ou go upon the roof of any of them ? 

A. Yes, sir. We were driven up towards Federal streets 



587 



Q. On the roofs of how maii}^ bniklings did you go? 

A. "We were on the roofs of two buildings and in the fourth storj' of 
a third one, I think. 

Q. Wlien you went to the State-street-block fire, did you have a horse? 

A. Yes, sir. It took about seventeen minutes. To the Rand & Avery 
fire, it was about fifteen minutes. 

Q. Was the horse Avell? 

A. No, sir, not entirely. 

Q. Do you suppose you could have got there as fast b}' hand? 

A. Yes, sir, I think we could — quicker. 

Q. Suppose you had had a well horse? 

A. It would depend somewhat upon the ambition of the horse. 



JAMES B. PRESCOTT, sworn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) What is your position in the Fire Depart- 
ment? 

A. I am driver of " Franklin " Hook-and-Ladder truck No. 3. It is 
stationed at No. 618 Harrison avenue, Boston. 

Q. At what time did you start for the great fire? 

A. I think it was twenty-five minutes past seven o'clock, as near as 
we could judge with our lime. It was at the second alarm. We calcu- 
late that we were about eight minutes on the road — as near as watch 
could tell. 

Q. Did you look at j'our watch when you arrived ? 

A. Yes, sir, I did. 

Q. Did you come by hand-power? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Where did you stop when you arrived ? 

A. We stopped on the corner of Bedford and Summer streets. 

Q. Could you have come any faster if you had had horses? 

A. No, sir, we could not. 

Q. How long did it take 3'ou to get to the State-street-block fire? 

A. I calculate that it took us about seventeen minutes. We had 
horses then. 

Q. Were they well? 

A. They were not entirely well ; but then the order came to use them, 
and we did so. 

Q. At the Rand & Avery fire how long? 

A. It was fifteen minutes. 

Q. Do yon think you could have gone to the State-street-block fire as 
quicker b}^ hand-power? 

A. I should say that there would not have been any great difference, 
provided that we could have had the same number of men that we did at 
the great fire. We had a large team at the great fire — about one hun- 
dred and fifty men, as near as we could calculate it. 



538 



GP:0RGE W. THOMPSON, sioom. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) What is 3'our position in the Fh-e Depart- 
ment? 

A. I am driver of Hook-ancl-Ladder truck No. 1, stationed at No. 148 
Friend street. 

Q. At what time did yon start for the great fire? 

A. At twenty-five minutes past seven. 

Q. Did you look at your walcli? 

A. We went on the first alarm. Coming down street, we cannot hear 
the alarm, in consequence of the rattling of the ladders. We arrived in 
six minutes. We turned out of Otis street on to Summer street. 

Q. Could 3^ou have come faster with horses? 

A. I don't think we could, 

Q. What does your team weigh? 

A. It weighs about between 6,500 and 7,000. 

Q. How much of a gang did you have? 

A. We had two 75-foot ropes on, full of men. 

Q. How long did it take you to go to the State-street-block fire? 

A. In my judgment, it was about five minutes. 

Q. Did 3'ou have a horse then? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. How long did it take you to go to the Rand & Avery fire? 

A. Between three and four, I should judge. 

Q. Did you have a horse ? 

A. Yes, sir. 

JASON GORDON, sworn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) What is your place in the Fire Department? 

A. I am driver of Hook-and-Ladder truck No. 7. It is stationed at 
Meeting-house hill, in the sixteenth ward. 

Q. At wdiat time did you start for the great fire? 

A. On the fourth alarm, at quarter to eight. I didn't time it myself, 
but I took it from the firemen in the same house. I arrived at the fire at 
quarter-past eight o'clock. 

Q. How did you get that time? 

A. I got it from the Engineer of the steamer. He said that there was 
a man run in and took out his watch, and told them that thej' got in in 
thirty minutes. We went off right together with Steamer 17. We were 
right together. We went by hand-power. 

Q. How long do you think it would have taken you with a horse? 

A. I have some trouble in getting oflT, and I could not get in there so 
quick with a horse. I keep my horses in Steamer 17's house. My lad- 
der house is about one thousand feet distant, across the hill. I have to 
go over, light a kerosene lamp, and put the pole in. We got in fully as 
quick by hand-power. If I had had horses well, and all harnessed, I 
could have come in in twenty minutes. Once in a while some of the 
<;omi)any will come in and help me ; at other times, I have to tie my 
liorses, and go and run the carriage out, and put on the pole. 



539 

I went to the State-street-block fire, and also to the Rand & Avery 
fii;e, but did not take the time at either. 

ALEXANDER P. HAWKINS, stvorn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) What is your place in the Fire Department? 

A. I am driver of Hose-carriage No. 10. 

Q. Where is tliat stationed? 

A. At Washington Village, Dorchester street, South Boston. 

Q. At what time did you start for the great fire? 

A. I started at half-past seven o'clock. 

Q. What alarm v* as that ? 

A. That was the general alarm. I started as soon as it was given. 

Q. Did you go by horse-power or by hand-power? 

A. It was by hand-power. 

Q. How long were you in coming in ? 

A. We were twelve minutes in coming in. 

Q. Where did 3'ou come to — to what point? 

A. We arrived at Devonshire street. That is where we took our 
water. We took water from Engine No. 8. 

Q. Where was the stream thrown? 

A. The stream was thrown into a building on Summer street. 

Q. How soon after you got in was that water thrown on the fire? 

A. Well, perhaps half a minute. I have not taken that matter into 
consideration. I should judge that it was half a minute. 

Q. How long would it have taken you to come in by horse-power ? 

A. Ten minutes. 

Q. How long did it take you to come in at the State-street fire? 

A. It took me fourteen minutes to come in with a horse that was not 
well. 

Q. How long did it take you to come in at the Rand & Avery fire ? 

A. It was fifteen minutes, with the same horse. He was not well. 



BENJAMIN F. THAYER, sworn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) What is your positition in the Fire Depart- 
ment? 

A. I am driver of Hose-carriage No. 4. 

Q. Where is it located ? 

A. On Northhampton street. 

Q. At what time did you start for the great fire? 

A. I didn't take particular notice. I started on the general alarm. 

Q. How long did it take you to get there ? 

A. I should think about twelve minutes. 

Q. Where did you arrive? 

A. It was at Otis street. 

Q. Where did you get your water? 

A. We were ordered to stand in reserve. Mine is a hose-carriage. 

Q. Hovv long would it have taken you to come by horse-power? 

A. Well, in the condition in which the horse was that night — 



540 

Q. I mean with a well horse ? 

A. We could not have got there much quicker than we dicL 

Q. Suppose that you had used your sick horse, how long would it have 
taken you ? 

A. I don't think we could have got there with him. 

Q. Did you go to the State-street-block fire? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. How many minutes did it take you? 

A. I should think it was twenty minutes. It was with a sick horse at 
the Rand & Avery fire. I should say that it took eighteen minutes. I 
threw him three times going to the fire. The horse is living, but he is 
weak yet. 

Adjourned to Monday. 



541 



EIGHTEENTH DAY. 

Monday, December 23. 

SANFORD H. BRIDGHAM, sworn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Did 3'ou time one of the Roxbury steamers 
on tlie night of the fire? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. Are you connected with the Fire Department? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. What are you? 

A. Driver of Engine 21. 

Q. Where is that located ? 

A. Upham's Corner, in the 16th Ward. 

Q. What time did you start for the fire? 

A. Well, sir, I am unable to tell. 

Q. Did you use horse-power or hand-power? 

A. Hand-power. 

Q. Uow long were you coming in? 

A. That I am unable to tell. I ijever looked to see what time it was 
when we started. 

Q. Did you start at the time of the general alarm ? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. As near as you can tell, how long did it take to come in? 

A. I heard the Engineer say, after we got in there, that we were twenty 
minutes coming in. 

Q. To what point? 

A. To Church Green, — the reservoir on Church Green. 

Q. How much quicker could you have come with horses? 

A. I have been from our house to Hay market Square in seventeen 
minutes. 

Q. Did you come in to the State-street fire? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. How long did that take you ? 

A. That I am unable to say, but to the best of my opinion, I should 
say twenty minutes. 

Q. Did you time the engine going to the Rand & AA-ery fire? 

A. No, sir, I did not. 

R. E. FLANDERS, sworn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) You are a fireman? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Connected with what? 

A. Steamer 21. 



542 

Q. Do you know how long it took you to come in to the great fire? 

A. No, sir, I don't. 

Q. Have you any opinion ? 

A. No, sir. 

GRIDLEY J. F. BRYANT, sioorn. 

Q. (By Mr. Piiilbrick.) "Will you give us j'our opinion in regard to 
the style of Mansard roofs used in Boston, — whether thej' are conducive 
to conflagrations or not? 

A. The Mansard roof, with wooden trimmings, is of course more dan- 
gerous than if the trimmings were galvanized iron. 

Q. Is there anything in the form of the roof to make it dangerous, if 
the materials are proper? 

A. Decidedly not. 

Q. Is there anything in the shape of the roof which makes it difficult 
to use incombustible materials in its construction? 

A. No, sir, it is really the simplest form of roof in outline. 

Q. Have you ever had your attention called to elevators, as they are 
generall}'' built in Boston, without any self-closing doors? 

A. Yes, sir ; it has been a subject of considerable thought among all 
the architects in active business, who are engaged in l>uilding large 
structures. Small buildings, of course, do not require them, but in large 
buildings, thej' are becoming a sine qua non. I do not speak of buildings- 
requiring passenger elevators, only, but almost all buildings having 
power I think are using elevators open on all sides to eacli loft. 

Q. What is your opinion of the self-closing hatches, as a means of pre- 
venting the spread of tire? 

A. One or two different theories have been brought to my attention. 
It seems practicable to build them, and I think they may be made ex- 
ceedingly useful. 

Q. Have you ever seen them in practice ? 

A. No, sir, I have never paid any attention to them as actuallj' built. 
I doubt whether there are many built in structures other than factories, 
but it seems to me, from the models that have been shown to me, they 
ought to be made useful, and can be exceedingly well arranged for cut- 
ting off fire. 

Q. Have you any statements to make as to the part played by the 
new Post-Office building in preventing the spread of the fire on account 
of the character of the construction? 

A. I believe the construction of the building, by its great massiveness, 
drove the fire certainly around it ; and, had the building been left alone, 
so far as water is concerned, we should not have been in the condition 
we are to-day, in my judgment. While there was great heat, there would 
not have been the destruction of granite that there has been, but for the 
water. 

Q. Was that caused by throwing water, in 3'our opinion? 

A. That seems to be the opinion, that a large part of the mischief was- 
done by water. 

Q. Did you see any water thrown on it? 

A. No, sir ; but I think you can have the evidence, as much of it as 



543 

3'ou want. I take that as report from our own people. Mr. Leighton, 
our Assistant Superintendent and Master Mason, was there. If you 
want liim, he will cheerfully come at any time. 

Q. Was the fire-proof character of that building considered in plan- 
ning it? 

A. Oh, yes, sir; what should be called the non-combustible character 
of it. I suppose we all agree that when a building is finished, having 
glass windows, that there should be as little inside finish of wood as pos- 
sible. An iron door is not a practicable thing. It is continually jamming 
your fingers, and most non-combustible l)uildings have wooden doors. 
Originally, in fire-proof buildings, they tried iron doors, but it is not prac- 
ticable to use them. The exjjcrience with tiiose at the Ctistom House 
shows this. In the new Post Office, the architraves around the doors, the 
wainscotings, and everything but the doors themselves will be of iron. 
They are all contracted for. The doors themselves will be mainly of 
mahogany, but there will be, leading into the cash rooms, and the treasury 
in'the second story, iron doors besides the mahogany doors, to cut off all 
communication with the corridors, but those are phiced there more for 
safety from entrance than as a cut-off' from fire, because we have fire-proof 
shuttei-s to every window, and our floors are entirely of iron and brick, 
with tiling in the major part of the rooms. Nearly the whole area will 
be tiled. The roof will not have a piece of wood in it as big as your fin- 
ger. It will be slated with ver}' heavy slates upon wrought iron, with- 
out boarding, the rafters and purlins being of iron. The upper part, 
or flat deck of the Mansard, and the upright sides, will be covered with 
and composed of non-conibiistible materials, and that building will be, 
perhaps, as perfect in its construction as any in the country, for which 
the credit is entirely due to Mr. MuUett, who laid out the lines, and de- 
signed it. 

Q. What is the top to be covered with? 

A. Copper. 

Q. Will the building be more fire-proof than it was the other night, 
when it is finished? Will it be more of an obstacle to a fire, or less? 

A. It ought to be more, sir. If the glass had been in the other night 
it would have been ruined by the great heat. 

Q. Was there not a good deal of wooden staging round the building 
which made a great deal of heat, which would have been avoided if the 
building had been comi)leted? 

A. The wooden staging created a great deal of heat that would not 
have been there if it was finished. The staging was only up against the 
rear wad, but it had a large quantity of lumber in it. Then the adjoining 
buildings in the rear, some of them, were as near as fitteen feet. The 
Peter Brigham estate, a ver}' high building, some seven stories, was 
twenty or twenty-five feet off. 

Q. I would like to ask your opinion of covering dormer window-finish 
on Mansard roofs with galvanized iron nailed on to wooden iurring. 

A. Nothing is a sufficient protection in case of a fire like that. You 
perhtips read in this morning's pnpcr that in the Presbyterian church in 
Brooklyn, N. Y., the galvanized iron curled up like paper. M3' belief 
is, no material can be applied to the roof of a building tiiat will be '\ suffi- 
cient protection in the case of a great fire ; not necessarily so large a fire 



544 

as this, but where there is great heat around the premises, — a square or 
two, or three or four buihlings, — liul of course we are all glad, and very 
glad, that iron has taken the position it has for the last few years ; and it 
is unfortunate for our city that iron was not well received at an earlier 
date. It is unfortunate, also, that our original building act did not con- 
tain — as the New York building act did — a provision that no Lutheran 
window, no Mansard roof, should have other than iron trimmings on it. 
I think I am right in that statement. I would like to correct myself if I 
«,m not, and will do so. I have not looked at the New York building 
•act for three or four years. 

Q. I meant to ask if covering wood-work with galvanized iron was 
worth much? Whether to cover dormer window finish and cornices with 
galvanized iron was good for anything, if nailed on to wooden furring? 

A. I should have less faith in it. 1 know what you allude to now. I 
know nine-tenths of the work is done in that way. I have far less faith 
In it than if it went home and met an iron frame. I am speaking as if it 
"was slate or copper. 

Q. Not for slating, but for trimming ; for moulding, cornices, trim- 
ming and window finish ; to take the place of wood, — as a covering for 
wood ? 

A. Heretofore, nine-tenths of our clients, if we talked of galvanized 
iron, or any kind of iron, would not listen to us. They would say it is 
a, piece of extravagance, and would not listen to us. Galvanized iron, 
-of course, is far preferable to wood in a location such as you name, and 
it is the material of all others to be used, unless you could afford, or had 
the foundation for putting on cast-iron, and even then it is a question, 
whether cast-iron would be as judicious as galvanized iron, taking into 
consideration the heat and water. 

Q. I want to know whetlier you think it a proper thing to nail this 
galvanized iron on to wooden furring? 

A. No, sir ; I do not. 

Q. The building act allows Mansard roofs to be built, if covered with 
non-combustible material, which would allow them to cover these wooden 
things with galvanized iron. I don't think it is a fit provision. Don't 
you think the wood would burn through in a few minutes? 

A. There is a good deal in that. 

Q. Have you seen tested the efficiency of mortar to go between the 
roof boarding and the slate for the steep surfaces? 

A. I don't know that 1 have ever seen the results after a fire, but I 
have great faith in the use of an inch of mortar an\'where. 

Q. Is there any practical difficulty in applying it on a Mansard roof 
between the boarding and the slating, or between the boarding and iron, 
if it is covered with iron ? 

A. No, sir ; and my instructions from Washington are that the upper 
Mansard part of the Post Office is to be filled with mortar and with 
arches. 

Q. There you have no boards ? 

A. No, sir. 
' Q. I mean for boarded roofs ? 

A. No, sir ; there is no difficulty. 

Q. It would require longer nails? 



545 

A. Yes, sir. All such things are excellent preventives. 

Q. Were you here during the Saturday night of the fire as a witness? 

A. No, sir ; I was not. The Mansard is most useful as giving you an 
additional story without the increased height of masonry which would be 
necessary if 3'ou had any other form of roof. It can be made so it is a 
cool story as well as most useful, and can be finished inside — as many 
of our best houses are — so you do not know you are in the roof, inside, 
the rooms being square, with very little loss of room. Of course, 1 am 
saying nothing new, but 1 want to make my record that the Mansard 
roof is the most useful roof, and would be the hardest to dispense with. 

Q. You mean properly constructed? 

A. Yes, sir, of course. 

Q. Do you consider the tar and gravel roof a good roof for flats in 
case of fire, as compared with tin? 

A. I incline to answer that, that tar and gravel is safer than tin, and 
will endure longer. There are two or three different patents. I am 
not able to state in regard to the exact detail of the pigments used, and 
the parts of each pigment, but I am inclined to think it is sater. The 
examinations that have been made show that tar and gravel well put on, 
and applied in proper proportion of materials, made as fair an exhibit, 
after the fire, as most any other material. 

Q. The tin is so thin, I suppose the heat penetrates it? 

A. Yes, sir, and it curls up very quickly. Tar and gravel adheres. 

Q. Do you think the provision in our building act, requiring four 
inches of brick between the ends of floor joist, is sufficient? 

A. No, sir, I do not like that. 

Q. Shouldn't it be more than four inches? 

A. I should think one brick, — eight inches, — which of course is 
admissible on the theory that four inches entering a wall is all that a 
timber should enter. In warehouses, I believe in not entering the tim- 
bers, but resting them on projections, or entering them very slightl}', 
and letting them lie on projections for a bearing ; but eight inches 
would be my judgment as to what should be between the ends of the 
timbers in the two sides of a wall. 

Q. I have seen a great many principal girders over iron columns 
made of rolled iron beams, on which the wooden floor joists rest. I have 
been unable to see what advantage that was. Can you tell me? 

A. We have all practised it of late years, the theory being that it 
aided what is termed fire-proof construction, and that the wrought-iron 
girder left nothing but the floor-joists to burn out, and that the iron beams 
served materially to tie the front and rear of the building. We believed 
they would hold the walls of the building together, and that the floors 
would drop away from the iron without distorting it. 

Q. From recent experience in this fire has that advantage been 
realized ? 

A. Not at all ; the reverse of it. There is evidence all over the 
burned district of these beams curling up and falling from their 
positions. 

Q. Judging from this experience, should you not think a good square, 
hard-pine beam superior in such places? 

A. I will use the word safer. You can stand under it until it has 
35 



546 

about gone, and it will stay where it is. Iron will play the part of a 
snake and come out of its place very suddenly. 

Q. Then, do they not sometimes expand and throw the walls out of 
place ? 

A. I haA'e no doubt it is possible. They would not expand any but 
the front and rear walls, because we presume that kind of a structure 
goes fiom the street, or front end, back to the rear, and never the other 
w:iy, unless a building is isolated. I have no knowledge of a wall being 
thrown out by the expansion, but we know the expansion is very great, 
and undoubtedly walls are thrown out of position. 

Q. Would not a wooden girder act to sustain a building longer than 
an iron one, with merchandise burning under it? 

A. It would on the average be as reliable. The wooden timber would, 
in m}' judgment, continue longer in place, under great heat, than the 
wrought-iron beams. 

Q. That is what I meant to ask, whether it would not do its duty 
longer? 

A. But the answering of the question in that way is not intended to 
say we will do nothing hereafter in iron ; not intended to say, hereafter 
we shall not put in wrought-iron girders in similar positions ; not in- 
tended to implj' that we should not build non-combustible buildings, as 
far as possible, that the means at the disposal of our clients will permit. 

Q. In your opinion, does the use of an iron girder supporting wooden 
floor joists add to the fire-proof qualities of a building? 

A. Yes, sir. I ought to say I think it adds to the fire-proof nature of a 
building, but under a fierce heat, I should feel as safe inside of a building 
with a hard-pine girder twelve or fourteen inches square. 

Q. How does the iron add to its being fire-proof? 

A. There are very few contingencies that can come up to displace 
girders as they were displaced in that fire. In an ordinary fire, in 
the burning out of a single store, unless it was filled with something 
very combustible, it would not, in my judgment, throw iron out of place. 

Q. Don't you think those iron girders were thrown out of place by 
the combustion of the materials in the individual stores in which they 
were placed, rather than the adjacent stores? 

■ A. Not materials ; perhaps you mean merchandise. I cannot conceive 
that the material of the floor — 

Q. I do not mean the material of the building, but the material taken 
in connection with the merchandise. Was it not the contents and ma- 
teriid of the individual buildings which displaced those iron beams, rath- 
er than the burning of the neigliboring buildings? 

A. Yes, sir ; but there was such havoc made with all material, and a 
fire like that is of such rare occurrence, that it is diflScult to define it 
strictly. 

Q. Don't you think something could be gained by protecting iron work 
with mortar or plaster of Paris ? 

A. Yes, sir, we are going to try a bit of roof on the Simmons building 
in that way. The trustees of the Simmons estate are going to have 
removed, and have contracted to have removed, the wooden roof of the 
original Rial to building. There are a good many others in Boston who 
might follow suit, that will not, although it would be the best economy 



547 

in the end. Mr. Philbrick puts the question as to the use of mortar as 
an increased safeguard to iron as well as wood, and I answer, unequivo- 
cally, that it is safer. Plaster of Paris is used very largely for that 
purpose. Tlie Simmons trustees are going to take off the wooden roof 
of the Rialto and cover it with i?on, backed w-ith plaster of Paris. They 
are also going to take away the wooden towers and rebuild them of 
iron. We have received estimates for corrugated iron facings, and we 
have received estimates for stone. We have the foundation to put stone 
on. The dome which is to surmount the corner of the two streets is to 
be contracted for and put up of iron. That was to have been slated, but 
it is now changed to iron. The purlins between the rafters and the 
entire bod}-- of the dome is to be covered with corrugated iron, instead 
of slates, as originally designed. 

Q. Whether or not, as a result of this fire, the architects of Boston 
will not recommend a change in the plans of their building? 

A. We have asked very many times to be allowed to do these things. 
The trustees were very liberal to me. The will of Mr. Simmons re- 
quired tbat the facade should be the same style as the one he built, and 
that being rather a pet investment, and having some pride in it, they 
allowed me to have a dome ; and I said, '' Don't talk of wood ; let us 
have iron." It was intended to be covered with slate, but we have im- 
proved on that. All these things have come up since the fire. It has 
set us all to thinking. 

EDMUND CALHOUN, morn. 

Q. Where do you live ? 

A. I am executive officer of the Navy Yard and captain in the navy. 

Q. Will you tell us what time you were first summoned to take any 
part about the fire in Boston ? 

A. As near as I can tell, it was about half-past eight on the evening 
of the ninth. I took a walk in the upper part of the yard and looked at 
the fire (I had observed it at my house), and then went up to my house. 
I think it was that time, because at eight forty-five the first order was 
given for a steamer to leave the 3'^ard. 

Q. What time did that first steamer leave ? 

A. Eight forty-five, sir. I reside at the lower end of the yard, and it 
is quite a distance from my house to my office. For that reason, the 
orders afterwards were issued immediately by the Commodore. I sent 
the first steamer out after having consulted with the Commodore, and 
afterwards sent the other steamer at eleven forty-five. I think there was 
an interval of three hours. It is the rule in the Navy Yard to keep one 
steamer in for emergencies. 

Q. Do you know anything about the amount of powder used that night 
from the Charlestown Navy Yard? 

A. I told you when the second steamer went, at a quarter of twelve. 
We have but two steam-engines. If I remember the time they summoned 
me about the powder, it was somewhere between twelve and one o'clock, 
I think. I sent an order immediately to the Ordnance Officer, Henry 
Trnxton. I am Executive Officer, and I sent those orders to him, and 
afterwards it was not referred to me, because I told the officer who came 



548 

to go and get the powder, and afterwards they went and got it, to what 
extent I don't know, but I tliink they got forty-five or fifty barrels. 

Q. What was your order? 

A. To let them have what they wanted. I think that afterwards when 
they came for powder they were referred immediately to the Commodore, 
because he is nearest. I live near the Chelsea bridge. They were re- 
ferred immediately to the Commodore, and he gave them all they wanted. 
I sent all the available force I could. A master's mate went in charge 
of the engine, and then a boatswain who lives in South Boston, Mr. 
Choate, he volunteered, and made his appearance here about the pow- 
der. I didn't know he was engaged at all until he came about the 
powder. 

Q. Would Henry Truxton know the exact amount? 

A. Yes, sir ; he is the Ordnance Officer and has charge of it. This 
first order was written on a small piece of paper in pencil, if I remember 
aright, and it was endorsed by the Commodore. I sent it with my en- 
dorsement to Mr. Truxton, and then they didn't refer to me at all after- 
wards about the powder. I was up all night, nearly, round about the 
yard, to see that we sent all of our available force that we had in the 
yard. 

Q. How many marines did you send? 

A. I don't know the number of marines exactly. The Commodore 
would know more about that, but we assisted not only on the 9tU and 
10th, but several days after that. 



F. 0. PRINCE, sworn. 

Q. At the fire on Saturday night, I understand you overheard some 
conversation in regard to blasting and the length of fuse that was used? 

A, Yes, sir, I heard some talk between Gen. Benham and somebody 
or other. 

Q. Was the party who talked with Gen'i Benham, a party engaged in 
blowing up buildings ? 

A. I was in Lindall street about the time that Robinson's place was 
on fire. 1 had watched the fire with great interest from twelve o'clock, 
wondering why certain things were not done, and I met Gen'l Benham, a 
gentleman whom I know very well, and I asked him why they didn't blow 
up some more buildings, and he told me he was at that business there, 
and observed that they were about blowing up the building next to Rob- 
inson's, which surprised me. I said in my judgment, a more remote 
building should be blown up, and suggested that the building on the 
corner — the south-east corner of Lindall street — should be blown 
up. He said that he thought so too. " Then," said I, " why isn't it 
done? " And he said people would not obey his orders. I drew his at- 
tention, when he told me what he was blowing up, to the fact that to blow 
up buildings next to the fire would do more injury than good, judging 
from the Chicago experience ; and he said people would not obey his or- 
ders. Just then, somebody came up, who seemed to be under his oi'ders, 
blowing up buildings, and spoke about the fuses, and whether this stranger 
or the General made the observation, 1 don't know ; but, at any rate. 



549 



one or the other made the remark that the fuses were eighteen-minute 
fuses. 

Q. Did the General make any objection to that? 

A. Not at all. 

Q. You say the fire was in the building next to the one he was blowing 
up? 

A. Next to the one he told me he was blowing up. 

Q. Do you know the other party ? 

A. No, sir ; I do not. My impression is he had a quantity of fuses 
with him, — powder-works. 

Q. Were his hands full of fuses? 

A. Yes, sir ; and a cart came down pretty soon, which they said con- 
tained powder and fuses, etc. 

Q. Gen'l Benham stated to you that he was attending to that service? 

A. Yes, sir ; and complained that they would not obey his orders. I 
had one of my sons with me, who also heard it. 



WILLIAM BIBRIM, sivorn. 

Q. Will 3^ou state what you did on the night of the 9th, in regard to 
the fire in Boston? 

A. To the best of my knowledge, I think it was about nine o'clock 
when I learned that a steamer and carriage was over here from the Navy 
Yard. At that time I was on Milk street. I think I was full three-quarters 
of an hour before I found the steamer belonging to the Navy Yard, 
which was at that time stationed on the corner of South and Essex 
streets. I think an hour after I learned that another steamer had come 
over, and was stationed on Bromfield street, 1 was told. I came up, but 
could not find her. I went round the fire ; I think I was absent an hour. 
Upon my return, I found the other steamer had gone to South street, 
found a reservoir and had gone to work. We worked there until, I should 
judge, in the neighborhood of four o'clock, when orders came to report 
on State street with two steamers. I went to State street, and after 
looking round some ten or fifteen minutes, found an engineer and 
reported to him. The orders were to take the steamers on to Milk 
street and i-eport there. I gave orders for the steamers to go there 
and went down, and found they could find but one hydrant at that 
time that could be made serviceable. Another Engineer came up 
and asked me if I had any objection to one of my steamers going 
to Bromfield street. I said not, and sent an Assistant Engineer with 
that steamer, and that is the last I saw of her until I saw her in the 
Navy Yard again at eleven o'clock. I took a position at the corner of 
Batterymarch and Milk, and worked there until the building was ex- 
ploded. I think it was the one on the corner of Water street and 
Liberty square. That frightened the men and drove the Engineer and 
men away from the steamer. All the other steamers had backed out be- 
fore that, and I thought it was time for us to get out. After that we 
went dovvn into Custom-House square, but could not get a chance to go 
to work with the engine, and went to work with the men helping Mr. 
Bickford get out bis safe. Then we were ordered on to Oliver street. 



550 

Q. How long did you remain in Custom-House square? 

A. I should judge two hours. 

Q. Was there no place where you could work? ^ 

A. JNo, sir. 

Q. What was the result of that explosion ? What was the effect of it 
in checking the fire or otherwise ? 

A. That explosion was quite a distance from where I was stationed. 
My engine was on the corner of Batterymarch and Milk street, my hose 
leading up in the direction of Pearl street, and I had no opportunity to 
observe the effect of the explosion. One effect that it had was to drive 
my men away, because we were given to understand that we should be 
informed when an explosion was to take place. I asked, I think Engi- 
neer Jacobs, to be kind enough to let me know, and I guess in five 
minutes after he promised he would, the explosion took place without 
notice. After that, the men didn't care about going so near buildings. 
As soon as the explosion took place, the glass in the windows near where 
we stood, near where the engine was placed, was all blown out, and with- 
out any orders, they left the machine. I assured them there was no danger. 
There was an officer sent over to look after the safety of the apparatus, 
and he said he wouldn't take the responsibility. I said I would, but the 
men didn't care to go up street again and I ordered them back. 

Q. You say you were in Milk street, and there was only one hydrant 
available? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. How long did the engine remain idle there? 

A. One of the engines took that hydrant. 

Q. Did the other one remain doing nothing, or go immediately to 
Bromfield street? 

A. Went immediately to Bromfield street. 

Q. Was there plenty of water? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Did you have an}' trouble from want of fuel that night? 

A. At times ; but not for any great length of time, because we found 
boxes and used them until the coal arrived. 

Q. Did you lose steam at any time on account of a want of fuel ? 

A. No, sir. 

JOSEPH P. DAVIS, sworn. 

Q. What office do you hold ? 

A. I am City Engineer, at present. 

Q. Are you familiar with the Lovvry hydrant? 

A. I have seen it in operation. I have never used it myself. I know 
its general character and principles. 

Q. Do you know any valid objection why it should not be generally 
used in Boston? 

A. The only objection that I know of is against its being placed in 
the street, on account of snow. 

Q. How much more efficient is it for the delivery of water than the 
common sidewalk hydrant in Boston? 

A, That question cannot be answered as you put it. The sidewalk 



551 

hydrants that are now used here are sufficient for a single hose. I think 
with the Lowry they have a chance for five hose ; so the ratio would be 
five to one, provided you had a pipe large enough leading to it. 

Q. Is it not less likely to freeze? 

A. The Lowry? no, sir. 

Q. Not on account of being near the main ? 

A. So far as I have known it has never been known to freeze. 

Q. I say less likely? 

A. Yes, sir, it is less likely. 

Q. Are you familiar with the size of the street mains in the burned 
district ? 

A. Yes, sir ; I know what they are on the map. 

Q. Were you here during the fire ? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Did you see any indications of a want of water suppl}^ for the ap- 
paratus that was used? 

A. I saw one place where I supposed the engines were sliort of water ; 
that is, from the manner in vvhich they were playing. Whether they 
were or not I cannot say positively. That was on the corner of Devon- 
shire and Franklin streets, but then I could not say positively that that 
was the trouble. 

Q. Under the present system of the construction of the reservoirs, is 
there not likely to be a good deal of water wasted in withdrawing the 
engines and leaving the reservoirs running into the sewers ? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Why should not these overflows be stopped entirely? 

A. I can only explain that to you from statements I have heard. I 
don't know so much about it myself. 

Q. Is there any good reason why they should not be stopped ? 

A. Not if all connection with the cellars was taken away from them. 

Q. Could not the house-water be conducted directly into the sewers 
without inconvenience? 

A. Yes, sir. I suppose it is done so now, since they do not build any 
more of those reservoirs. 

Q. I suppose those reservoirs being of old date, and having their for- 
mer supply from the house-pipes, retain that connection now, do they 
not? 

A. So I understand. 

Q. In case we stop the overflow, that house-water must be proxided 
for by direct connection with the sewers? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Are not the reservoirs a valuable auxiliary to the Fire Department 
in equalizing the flow of water? 

A. I think the trouble at the corner of Franklin and Devonshire 
streets was from the fact of that reservoir being there. There is a 6-iiich 
pipe leading down there, and a 4-inch nozzle leading into the reservoir. 
That is equal to the supply of a certain amount of water, but not to the 
number of engines they massed there. 

Q. Do you think that a 4-inch supply to a reservoir is sufficient? 

A, It depends upon how many engines you want to put in one spot. 



552 

If the idea is to have eight or ten in one spot, there should be facilities 
for it. 

Q. Suppose there was a 6-inch supply ; could not the stop-cock be 
gauged to supply one or two reservoirs without overflow ? 

A. Yes, sir ; but perhaps a 6-inch pipe is not equal to that supply. 

Q. It would be more than double a 4-inch, would it not? 

A. Yes, sir. There is probably less than twent}^ feet of 4-inch pipe. 
It would not probablj' make much practical difference. 

Q. The short spur, you mean, between the main and the reservoir? 

A. Yes, sir ; the branch leading from the main. 

Q. If the Lowry hydrants were pjit in once in two hundred feet, 
would they acquire their full efHciency without a larger pipe than a 
6-incli main in the street? 

A. The question turns upon the size of pipe and the number of en- 
gines you are going to use in a given place. A 6-inch pipe would sup- 
ply a single Lowi'y hydrant, if you were not drawing elsewliere. 

Q. How would it be in case of a large tire ? 

A. As I understand it, there were fortj'^ engines. If they were on 
h3-drants 200 feet apai't, five to a hydrant, a 6-inch pipe would not be- 
gin to supply them. 

Q. How large a pipe would, in your judgment? 

A. I should have to go into a calculation to answer that. Those 
engines are said to throw a cubic foot in a minute. Five entrines Avould 
make a velocity of five or six feet in. a 12-inch pipe, which is going 
pretty fast. 

Q. Would there not be a considerable advantage, in cases of great 
conflagrations, in connecting the high service with that part of the city 
which is burning? 

A. No ; because the high service would not be equal to the quantity 
of water required. The high service is supplying about a million of 
gallons a day ; and M'ith all those engines playing, it would draw it 
down very quick. 

Q. Would it not be an auxiliary? 

A. No, sir ; it would not be of any good at all. It might be for five 
or ten minutes. 

Q. You mean, you cannot use that in connection with your other 
supply ? 

A. No, sir. There is no reservoir connected with the high service ; 
it is a stand-pipe : and the capacity of the engines playing on the fire 
would be more than that of the engines pumping into the stand-pipe, so 
you could not keep the head up more than ten minutes. 

Q. It was not let on? 

A- I suppose not. 

Q. Is there any connection between the Beacon Hill reservoir and the 
pipes in the burnt district? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Is it constantly open? ^ 

A. No, sir. 

Q. Do you know whether it was used that night? 

A. I don't know. 



553 

Q. If it had been used that night, would it have made any differ- 
ence ? 

A. As long as the amount of water in the reservoir held out. 

Q. Who would know whether it was in use or not? 

A. Mr. Jones. 

Q. Do you know if it was filled that night? 

A. I do not. They can only fill it from the high service. That is to 
say, the head is such, that I understand, on the low service, it will only 
run in a little every night. It has water in it now, but whether it had 
at the time of the fire I don't know. 

Q. Looking at all the advantages of the* Lowry hydrant, as com- 
pared with the common hydrant in use, would you, or would you not, 
recommend its being placed over that burned district to-day ? 

A. I think the best system, so far as the delivery of water is concerned, 
would be a combination of the two. I don't think there is any use in 
putting Lowry hydrants every two hundred feet on a six-inch pipe. I 
don't see anything specially gained by concentrating five engines at one 
point. Perhaps it is a little disadvantage rather than otherwise, but at 
the same time, there is no hydrant in use that delivers that amount of 
water, if that is the desideratum. 

Q. How would you use both ? 

A. I would put the Lowrys in at the street corners, and then the others 
two hundred or three hundred feet apart. What uses up the head is the 
hose on the engines themselves. They will use up more than several miles 
of pipe. 

Q. Then would it be an advantage to have them nearer together? 

A. Yes, sir, but it seems to me to be unnecessar}'^ to have five noz- 
zles to every two hundred feet. 

Q. Do you know anything about the Lockport hydrant? 

A. No, sir. The chief thing an Engineer looks to is the quality of the 
manufacture of the hydrant. There are a great many Ejigineers who will 
not use them, because the valves get out of shape ; but most any of them 
deliver water enough. 

Q. You say the only objection to the Lowry is placing it in the streets 
on account of snow ? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Have you ever heard any objections made to it where it has been 
placed in the Highlands or East Boston? 

A. No, sir, I am not in the way to hear. I have recently come to the 
city. 

Q. Since you have been here you have not heard any complaints? 

A. No, sir. I have been on the Lowell works, and there, when the 
question of hydrants came up, we went round to determine what we 
should have. The commissioners went with me, and after looking the 
matter over, they considered it was not advisable to put in the Lowry in 
Lowell. We put in a more capacious hydrant than we have here. It is 
a thi'ee-nozzle l^ydrant. 

Q. As compared with these, how much more water will one of those 
deliver? 

A. They are five-inches, and these are three ; they will supply three noz- 
zles, these are intended to supply one. 



554 

Q. How large are the mains there? 

A. The main which comes from the reservoir is thirty-inch, and that 
is reduced down to six, which is the smallest pipe we used. 



WILLIAM J. MOREY, sworn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Did 3^ou give the alarm at the State-street- 
block fire? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. What time did you "give it? 

A. I think it was three minutes past ten. 

Q. Did any one tell you about the fire, or did you discover it your- 
self? 

A. I heard somebody hallo ; I didn't know whether it was " murder," 
" fire," or " watch." I was on Oliver street at the time. I ran down 
through Broad street into India street, and there were three or four, prob- 
ably half-a-dozen women and children at the corner, and they said there 
was a fire in that direction, pointing toward the State-street block. I 
looked up and saw the blaze from where I stood, on the corner of India 
and Wharf streets, and ran to box thirty-seven. I found officer Shea 
there. I asked him what the matter was that there was no alarm turned 
in. He said the box did not work. I told him I would run over to Fan- 
euil Hall, and if I didn't hear the alarm by the time I got over, I would 
turn in tlie alarm there. Not hearing any by the time I arrived there, I 
opened the box and turned one in. 

Q. What box was that ? 

A. 16. 

Q. Do you know whether he tried an}' other box ? 

A. I am certain he did not, but between the time he arrived there and 
I arrived there, he sent another officer down to box forty-seven, which is 
down to Rowe's wharf, and I think that box was out of order, and didn't 
work. 

Q. Who was that officer ? 

A. Officer Stuart. 



HENRY MORSE, sworn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) What station are you connected with? 

A. Ten. 

Q. Did j^ou time an engine that came in? 

A. I did. 

Q. What engine was it? 

A. No. 12. 

Q. Where does No. 12 start from? 

A. It is located on the corner of "Warren street, near Dudley, — fac- 
ing Dudley. 

Q. What time did it make? 

A. I looked at my watch. It made about twenty minutes to the place 
where we first stopped. It was in Kingston street where we first 



555 

stopped, and after that there was some one came and directed them up 
Cohimbia street. 

Q. Was it at the corner of Kingston street where thej' stopped ? 

A. No, sir ; I don't know what streets 'they went tiirough, but they 
turned back a little and went through a cross street, and up, and where 
they stopped was Columbia street. 

Q. What time did you start that night? 

A. I helped them out of the house and we got round on to Harrison 
avenue, and then I looked at my watch, and it was fourteen minutes of 
seven. I made an allowance of one minute for getting out. 

Q. You mean eight? 

A. It might have been eight. I had got home, eaten ray supper, and 
was reading the paper, when I heard the alarm and went up there. 

Q. What time did you get in? 

A. It was five minutes past. 

Q. What was the point where you first stopped ? 

A. It was beyond Beach street, on Kingston street. I don't know 
exactly. I know when they turned to go into the other place, they came 
back a little and went up a little street, and they were about three min- 
utes going from where they first stopped to where they finally stopped, 
and that was the corner of Columbia street. 

Q. You came in by hand? 

A. Yes, sir. I looked at my watch ; I thought it was something out 
of the usual course, and that I would see just about how long we were 
cominar. 



GEO. B. PRAY, sworn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) What time did you come to the fire? 

A. I was on the corner of Summer and Washington streets when the 
alarm was rung out. 

Q. Did you go immediately? 

A. I went as quick as I could get there. 

Q. How soon did you see any engine there? 

A. I should think the East-street engine, I think it was No. 7, — the 
one that is located in East street, — arrived there in three or four minutes 
aft r I was on the ground. No. 4 was tlie next one that I saw, and I 
think like enough it was somewhere in the vicinity of eight or ten min- 
utes before she arrived. The rest I did not notice particularly. 

Q. Did you see 4's hose come, or 7's ? 

A. I saw a hose, but I did not notice particularly to see whose hose it 
was. I could not state. 

Q. How soon was there a stream on the fire ? 

A. There were two hose companies that were about ready to get their 
streams on, — hydrant streams, — when I arrived there. I should not 
think it was over three minutes before there was one hydrant stream on ; 
I am not positive but two. They were getting their hose out to get on 
a stream. 



556 



GEO. L. BURT, sworn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) What time did you reach the great fire? 

A. I did not come in until Sunday morning. 

Q. Tell us anything you think the Conmiission ought to hear. 

A. I went inside of the lines immediately after I got here. The 
reason I did not come in that night was there was not a horse to be 
had. I have four myself. Every horse that we had at that end of the 
city was sick. Our steamer came in by hand. I tried the stables and 
tried privately to get a horse to come in that night, but we hadn't ahorse 
we could drive to Boston, and our steamer came in by hand, drawu by 
men and boys. By the way, I believe our steamer made as good time 
within ten minutes as she made at the State street and Rand & Avery 
fire. That ten minutes she lost at the Highland stables, expecting to 
get horses there. They told them they might have them, but when they 
went to get them, they came to the conclusion they had no authority to 
let them have them, and they didn't. After I got inside of the lines, I 
went to looking after the firemen as well as I could. I found by that 
time they were pretty thoroughly exhausted, and it was time they had 
something to eat. 

Q. What time did you get in? 

A. I walked in until I got the cars, I should say somewhere about nine 
o'clock, and then I was at City Hall and round among the firemen all the 
rest of the da}'^, and during the day, 1 was put on the Relief Committee, 
and at night went round to look after them. 

Q. Are you on the Committee on the Fire Department? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. How did the firemen behave that day? 

A. As well as ever I saw them. They were all pretty thoroughly tired, 
but every one seemed to be willing to do the utmost he could. 

Q. Since j^ou have been on that committee, has Engineer Damrell ever 
called your attention to the exposed condition of this district and the 
want of steam fire apparatus there, or more water? 

A. At the time of the Chicago fire, our committee thought it was best 
to send him on there, and we sent him to Chicago, and when he came 
back, one of the committee asked him if it was possible that such a fire 
could ever come to Boston. He told him it was, and this is one of the 
very places, among others, that he spoke of. 

Q. What reason did he give ? 

A. From the height of the buildings, so much wood on the top of 
them, and the narrowness of the streets, that if they got on fire, they 
would make such a terrible heat it would melt everything before it. I 
will state right here that since I have been on that committee I have had 
a great many people say to me, " Why do you allow your Chief to go to 
every fire? Why do you allow him to run to every fire and make a show 
of himself? " I brought that to the Chief's attention and he said to me, 
" When certain boxes are struck, it seems as if I could not get there 
quick enough," — while, he said, if he heard other boxes he did not feel 
such a terrible thrill. 



557 

Q. Did he ever speak of want of water and of proper apparatus in this 
part of the city ? 

A. We have always had the idea that our water-pipes were not so big 
as they should be, from hiin, in that district, and where we got a number 
of steamers located on one pipe, that one would take away from the others 
so tliey could not get the full force. 

Q. Did he ever express any opinion about the location of the appa- 
ratus ? 

A. About a year ago, lie wanted to put another steamer in town some- 
where on the Fort-Hill district, but it was rather knocked on the head 
before the committee. I was in favor of it myself, and I believe there 
should be one there now. I bebeve the cheapest Fire Department is one 
so strong that we cannot have anything get ahead of us. 



Hon. WILLIAM GASTON, sworn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) You are the Mayor of Boston? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Will you state when 3^ou first became aware of the fire, and what 
action you took in regard to it? 

A. 1 first became aware that there was an extensive fire between half- 
past nine and ten o'clock in the evening. I was then in Roxi)ury, and 
the first thing I did was to go to station house No. 10, with a view of 
ascertaining the locality of the fire, and all I could about its extent. I 
learned that it was in the vicinity of Summer street, but did not ascertain 
very much about the details of it, further than that it was a large fire. I 
was then in the vicinity of the depot of the Boston & Providence rail- 
road, and the question was, what was the most speedy way of arriving 
here. I saw no horse-cars at that time. On inquiry, I found that a train 
of cars would be due at that depot at twenty or twenty-five minutes past 
ten, I thinli twenty-five minutes past, coming to the depot in Boston. 
I waited for that train, and started to come to the city in the immediate 
company of ex-Mayor Lewis of Roxbur}^, and Mr. Frederick M. Briggs. 
There were other gentlemen waiting for the train, a great many of whom 
I knew, but I was in the immediate company of those two gentlemen. 
We reached the depot in Boston not far from half-past ten ; that is, assum- 
ing that the train was on time, and so far as I know, it was. We then went 
down Elliot street to Washington, thence down Essex, and (as near as I 
can remember) I went into the following streets : Essex, crossing over 
by some street from Essex to South, East, Federal, Broad, Congress, 
High, Pearl, Milk and Washington. At this time, the fire was raging 
with very great fury, and extending very rapidly. There was great ex- 
citement in the streets. They were filled with people moving merchan- 
dise and trying to save their efi'ects ; men connected with the Fire De- 
partment, and spectators ; it was a scene of confusion. After going 
round the fire in that way, I came to the conclusion that I could render 
the best service by going to the City Hall. I accordingly went to the 
City Hall. I first went into the police office ; there I think I met Alder- 
man Jenks. I either met him there or soon after in the Mayor's office ; 
I think in the police office. He told me that various messages bad been 



558 



sent to adjoining places for assistance, and gave me such information as 
he coukl about the progress of the fire. I then went up stairs, Alderman 
Jenks with me, and directed the officer to light my office ; it was not 
then lighted. We remained there some time, and finally I went up to 
the fire-alarm office to see about the progress of the flames. While there, 
Mr. Minns came ; we then went down to the Mayor's office, and some 
talk was had about what ought to be done, whether the blasting of any 
buildings was desirable. Finally, we all started to find the Chief Engi- 
neer and his assistants. We searched for him, and at length found hira 
in Federal street, I think. He was there with several of his assistant 
Engineers. We told him that we wished him and his assistants to ex-, 
ercise their best judgment in this matter, and we would render them 
every assistance in our power. He then told me, I think it was at that 
time, that he had been considering the question of blowing up buildings, 
and with that view had sent some person, I think it was Capt. Q-.iinn, to 
examine various points and to report to him the condition. He then, 
with several of his Engineers, went into a store that was close to the 
burning buildings ; I am not sure whether that block was burning or not, 
but at any rate, the fire was burning very near by, and in the store the 
subject of the use of powder was discussed ; I was ijresent ; and they 
then came to the conclusion to make the trial. 

I told the Chief Engineer that in any trial which he or his officers 
might make, I hoped they wouhi be very careful not to endanger human 
life. Amidst the excitement, I was afraid that they would not take the 
necessary precautions, in case anything of that kind was done. I 
waited about there a considerable period of time, watching the progress 
of the flames, and watching the operations of the department. While 
there, however, the City Messenger told me there were some gentlemen 
at the City Hall who desired to see me. I soon after that returned, 
with the City Messenger, and went to my office. I found several gentle- 
men there. There was a talk about the fire. Of course, the parties 
were very much excited ; the conversation I cannot give. After a while 
the Chief Engineer came in, and when he came in, talk was had between 
him and various persons about blowing up buildings. He gave written 
orders, as I supposed, — I did not read them, — to various persons, and 
after the orders were made, he went away, and a large portion of the 
gentlemen who were in there went away. My attention after that was 
directed largely to taking measures to preserve the public peace and 
assist persons in securing their property. A great many came there 
about that. At my request, Alderman Cutter went to the Adjutant 
General to ask him for military aid. He returned, having found the 
Adjutant General, and after awhile, I cannot give the hours now, because 
1 did not watch the progress of the clock, the Adjutant General came, and 
I told him that in our confused and excited condition, we needed mili- 
tary strength to protect the city, and to protect the property and people. 
He asked how soon I wanted it. I told him as soon as it could be had. 
He asked what number. I told him as many as he could furnish. He 
told me he would take immediate measures. He did act very promptl}'', 
and the next day military aid came. Perhaps I might say here, that it 
remained in greater or less numbers for over a fortnight, and rendered 
very valuable service, extremely valuable service, in protecting the 



559 

property and persons of the citizens. I found the State authorities very 
willing and anxious to give me aid. Aid came from the forts, and from 
the Navy Yard in Charlestown. During the night, of course, great 
numbers of people came in with various requests for me to give certain 
orders in respect to the blowing up of buildings. I told them, — or many 
of them, — that the power and responsibilit}' belonged to ttie Chief En- 
gineer and his Assistant Engineers ; that 1 had no right to exercise the 
authority, and that if I undertook to usurp it, I thought it would pro- 
duce disaster and confusion ; but whatever the officers themselves de- 
termined upon, I would exercise all my power and influence to assist 
them in the execution and discl)arge of their duties. I remained in 
my office most of the time for four daj^s and four nights, during 
which period I saw a very large number of people upon various errands, 
and I am willing to state, as far as I can state, what occurred, but all 
that occurred it would be impossible to remember. 

I went again, perhaps I ought to say, to the fire on Sunday. I went 
to Congress street and Congress square, and watched the operations of 
the department, and the progress of the fiames, and I saw that the de- 
partment were acting Avith great industry, and, I thought, with great 
success, at that point. Tlie hour on Sunday I should not be able to state, 
because, as I say, amid the excitement, I did not keep the distinction of 
the hours. I was constantly receiving reports during the entire prog- 
ress of the flames, from various persons, but J ^hink I went to the fire 
but three times. During the night and part of Sunday morning, I 
feared that tlie City Hall would be destroyed, and that the fire would 
extend beyond that. There were carts or vehicles provided ready to 
take away the records in case the danger there became imminent. There 
were also arrangements made with reference to the preservation of the 
books of the Registry of Deeds. 

Q. Can you give the time or about the time when you were present at 
the meeting of the Engineers in Federal street? 

A. My impression is, that when I first saw the Chief Engineer, it 
might have been between half-past eleven and twelve, but that is a mere 
impression. 

Q. How many times did you see him that night while the fire was 
raging ? 

A. The first time I saw him was in Federal street. The next time I 
saw him was when he came to the Mayor's office, after that. 

Q. Do you know how he happened to come ? 

A. No, sir, I do not. I have no recollection of sending for him 
myself. 

Q. How did he appear that night? 

A. He appeared, when I saw him in Federal street, to be quite col- 
lected and calm ; earnest, but he talked very sensibly indeed, as I thought. 

Q. Do you recollect then asking him what plans he had for sta^'ing 
the progress of the fire ? 

A. I remember his stating to me, I think it was at that point of time, 
what I have already stated, that he had requested Capt. Quinn to make 
an examination and report to him. 

Q. Did he state an3^thing else at that time except with regard to his 
proposed experiment with gunpowder? 



560 

A. I don't think any inquiries were made in regard to a general plan. 
My purpose was, and I suppose that of the Aldermen with me, to go and 
see him, and give him all the strength and encouragement our presence 
could give, and to do anything we could to assist him in the discharge 
of his (Uities. 

Q. You say you thouglit the Cliief Engineer, with two Assistants, was 
the party to give authority for the demolition of buildings. I will ask 
you, as an expert in law, if that is your opinion now ? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Did you give Gen. Burt authority to blow up buildings? 

A. I have no recollection of giving him any such authority. I under- 
stood the authority to proceed from the Chief P^ngineer. There were a 
great number of things said that night ; of course, I don't remember 
everything that was said ; but my purpose was to let the responsibility 
rest where the law placed it, and so far as I can recollect, I endeavored 
to act consistently with that purpose. My impression is that the 
authority came in writing from tlie Chief Engineer to Gen. Burt. I did 
not intend to give Gen. Burt any authority ; I did not have it to give. 

Q. Do you recollect any conversation with Major Nichols, or anybody 
else, about the marines? 

A. My impression is that Mr. Nichols made a suggestion to me about 
the marines. I told him I thought it was a good one, and asked him if 
he would do me the favor to go to the Navy Yard and ask the Commo- 
dore for assistance. He said he would, and started to execute the com- 
mission ; and 1 have no doubt he did, because the marines came. 

Q. You saw the Chief of Police personally during the night? 

A. I saw the Chief of Police a great many times. He was ver}' 
active. After I had been round to the fire I went to my office. Mr. 
Briggs and Alderman Jenks were with me, and I asked the officer in 
atteiidance there to light the office. He did so, and I left it lighted 
when I went away. 1 don't know that the lights were extinguished any 
time until the next morning after that. I found it lighted when I 
returned, and when I returned, I requested the messenger to light up the 
Aldermen's room, which he did. 

Q. (By Mr. Greene.) Do you recollect how long it was after the 
building'was lighted before you saw Gen. Burt? 

A. I went up there and stayed some time talking over matters with 
Alderman Jenks and others who came in. Then I went in search of the 
Chief Engineer, found him in Federal street, and others with him, was 
present at the meeting with his Engineers, remained there a considerable 
period, and then returned to City Hall, and soon after that I saw Gen. 
Burt. 

Q. He came in? 

A. He came in. 

Q. AVas he there when you returned ? 

A. I don't remember seeing him when I first returned ; there were 
quite a number there. In reference to the Chief of Police, I will say 
that I saw him several times, and he rendered me very valuable aid. 
He was very active during the entire period. The excitement, of course, 
continued. There was an exciting period for forty-eight hours, at least, 
and there was not much sleep to be obtained by anybody. The Chief of 



561 

Police was with me a great deal of the time ; that is, up and down from 
his own office, aiding me by suggestions, aiding me by executing my 
orders. He was very faithful. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) What do you think of providing for a more 
ready call of the military in case of a future contingency of the kind? 

A. I think it would be A^ery well, because this event shows that there 
may arise a sudden emergency where their presence would be very im- 
portant. I presume the Commission have already heard the fact stated, 
but as I passed tlirough the streets, I saw a great many people carrjnng 
goods and merchandise of various descriptions. It was hard to distin- 
guish between those who were carr^dng their own goods, and those who 
were carrying somebody's else. I became convinced that there were a 
great many engaged in carrying off the goods of other people, and I saw, 
therefore, the very great need of having military aid at once, in order 
that the police might especially direct their attention to those who were 
engaged in plundering. It was also feared tliat the fire would attract 
from abroad — there was a great apprehension of that — knaves and 
scoundrels, who Avould engage in plundering, and the military relieved 
the apprehension of citizens in that regard very much. There was very 
great alarm. Delegations came to me in ver}^ great alarm, believing 
that the railroad trains would bring large numbers of these scamps, who 
would come here to plunder, and they did not feel any safety except iu 
the presence of the militar}'. I kept the military beyond the time Avhen 
I thought there was any actual need of their presence from the danger of 
plundering, to allay the apprehensions of the people. I thought two 
things were important. In the first place, to preserve order, and in the 
next place, to inspire the citizens with confidence that the}'' were secure ; 
an<l the military sta3'ed longer than I should have kept them, on account 
of preserving the public peace, in order that the people might be sure 
that they were to be protected. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) Did you see Mr. Norcross? 

A. I did. It is onl}' justice to Mr. Norcross to sa^^, that he came (my 
impression is that it was not far from one to two o'clock), and kindly 
offered to assist me in any way in his power. I told him his presence 
would be a very great pleasure to me, and I should like the aid of his 
counsel and advice. He accordingly stayed with me a great deal, and I 
had frequent conversations with him. He was very kind, and made, of 
course, wise suggestions, and gave me good counsel. I feel very much 
indebted to him for his kindness in thg.t regard. 

Q. Can you recollect when you first saw Gen. Benham that night? 

A. No, sir, I cannot. I know he was there, but the time he first came 
I am unable to state. I saw so man}^ that I cannot distinguish as to the 
time when I saw them. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) Do you know whether he was authorized by the 
Chief Engineer to operate with powder? 

A. Not to my knowledge. I understood that Gen. Benham wanted 
authority to blow up buildings. I referred him, as nearly as I can 
recollect, to the Chief Engineer for that. I said to him that he must 
understand the rules of subordination sufficiently to know that it 
would be improper for me to give him authority which I did not 
possess, and disarrange the plans of those who were entitled to ex- 
36 



5G2 

ercise authority. Then I remember introducing him to the Chief En- 
gineer on State street. Some of tlie gentlemen were very anxious 
that certain buildings should be blown up, and wailed upon me Sun- 
day, and were very urgent about it, saying that unless they were, State 
street would be in danger of burning, but I told them, as I had told 
others, that the authority belonged not to me, but to the Chief En- 
gineer and his assistants, and if they could convince the Chief En- 
gineer that the buildings should be blown up, and any assistance from 
me was needed, I should cheerfully render it. But at the request of sev- 
eral gentlemen, I went down to State street, and I remember bringing 
Gen.Benham and the Chief together. Gen. Benham wanted to put pow- 
der under some buildings in State street. The Chief Engineer told him 
that the buildings were not going to burn, and they had some further 
conversation ; I don't know as I can give it. I know the Chief ex- 
pressed to me, and I think he did to Gen. Benham, the opinion that 
there Avas no danger of those buildings burning at that point ; that they 
were getting control of the fire, and I thought from the appearances they 
were. 

Q. (By Mr. Greene.) Can you recollect Mr. Burt's suggesting any 
general plan of operations, any comprehensive plan for combating the 
fire? 

A. Mr. Burt was in the office and talked a great deal, but I don't re- 
member any plans, sir. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Do you recollect what buildings Gen. Ben- 
ham wanted to mine? 

A. My impression is, that at that particular point of time, he wanted 
to put the powder under the buildings this side of the Exchange. 1 may 
be incorrect about the i)recise buildings, but I think those are the ones 
he said he wanted to put the powder under at that time. 1 don't know 
that he proposed to blow them up, but he wanted to have the powder 
underneath them, and I went down, at the request of sundry gentlemen, 
in order to see the Chief Engineer, to enable Gen. Benham to have a 
conference with him. If Gen. Benham could give him any valuable sug- 
gestions, I was very glad to have him do so. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Do you remember that among the buildings 
that were doomed, that is, that people were very anxious to blow up, 
were those between Spring lane and W.ater street? Did you have any 
applications about those? 

A. Yes, sir ; 1 had some applications about those. Many of the re- 
quests came from men under a very great degree of excitement, and, as 
I thought, some of them were very wild. 

Q. (By Mr. Piiiluuick.) What do 3^011 think of the propriety of hav- 
ing attached to the Fire Department, ready for call, a small number of 
men who shall be expert in the use of explosives, for use in such 
exigencies? 

A. I think such a body would be very useful. Of course, Mr. Phil- 
brick understands better than I whetiier these men, expert in the use of 
explosives, would know how to a|)ply the explosives to buildings ; but I 
should think there would be a ditncult}^ in having many experts whose 
knowledge was obtained from actual experience, because, probably a fire 
where their services would be needed does not occur once in a generation. 



563 

It may be that a knowledge of .the explosive power of gunpowder and 
how to apply it might be useful, and such expert knowledge, no doubt, 
might be made useful ou occasions of this kind. I should think it might 
be. 

Q. I mean, whether it would not be prudent to provide beforehand, 
keep in view, a certain number of individuals, who might be called upon 
at such times? 

A. I think it would. Then there is another reason for having a body 
of this kind, as it seems to me. My own belief is, that in the case of a 
fire of this kind, extending over sixt}'- or seventy acres, it is impossible 
for the Chief Engineer and his assistants to be around all parts of the 
fire at the same time ; and if it is necessary to blow up buildings, you 
cannot practically get an Engineer and two assistants to go and view 
each particular building, because the fire would be burning down all the 
rest of the city in the mean time. That is, practically the law could 
not have been carried out that night. I suppose it requires something 
in the nature of a judicial determination in regard to each particular 
building, " Shall that particular building be exploded or not? " While 
giving attention to that question, the fire is burning with great ferocity 
in all directions ; so that it seems almost impossible, in a great fire, to 
go through that form. If they have to go through that form, they neces- 
sarily can do but little. 

Q. Should you think it worth while to modify the law? 

A. Yes, sir ; if a body of this kind should be created, who should have 
particular charge of that matter, they might determine this question, 
leaving the general management of the fire to the Chief and his Assist- 
ant Engineers. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) Acting in conjunction with the Chief? 

A. Yes, sir. Take this fire ; in the first place, the Chief and his assist- 
ants were needed to direct the men in their operations on the fire. If 
their attention is to be withdrawn by the necessity of making this ex- 
amination and determination in regard to blowing up buildings, of 
course their assistance is withdrawn from their men at the time when 
it is more especially needed, and the men then would not be under an3' 
control. That night, as the orders were given out, the question arose 
in my mind about the safet}' of giving them to various men ; but, when 
I came to reflect, I did not suppose that there was anybody in the de- 
partment who had any special skill in the service. 1 supposed that 
there was hardly an officer or man in the Fire Department who had 
special skill in the matter. They fiave no expert knowledge in that par- 
ticular matter. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Did you hear from any expert that night the 
proper charge necessary to blovv up a building? Did anybody mention 
the number of pounds that was sufficient? 

A. I don't remember that I did. 

Q. Did you give authority to any person to blow up the building on 
the corner of Milk and Washington streets, or Summer and Washington 
streets? 

A. No, sir. I don't know what buildings were blown up, except from 
some rumors that I have heard. 



564 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) Do you think the present statute calcu- 
lated to operate etticiently in such cases? 
A. No, sir, I don't think it is. 

CHARLES H. STUART, sivorn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Where do you live ? 

A. 50 Ridgeway lane. 

Q. You are an oflicer of Station No. 2? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. What had you to do with giving the alarm when the State-street 
block caught fire? 

A. The first knowledge I had of the fire was, I heard them crying 
fire on the avenue. I ran down as far as Broad and Atlantic avenue, 
where it comes round there, and saw smoke coming out of the second 
or third story window. I ran back to box 47, that is opposite Rowe's 
wharf, up in the alley-way, and there I turned the alarm in, and waited, 
I should think, some five minutes, and didn't get any answer from that 
box. Then I left the box, thinking I heard the bell strike, and ran 
right down to the fire. I didn't stop to count the alarm. I can't, in 
fact, tell where it did come from. I didn't get any answer from that 
box. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) Did you count the number? 

A. No, I did not. I heard the bell strike, and ran right to the fire. 

Q. The only way j^ou know that it didn't strike from your box is be- 
cause there was no answer? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) That is the way you know? 

A. Yes, sir, that is tlie wa}'. I waited a sufficient time to know. 

Q. Who do 3'ou understand gave the alarm? 

A. I can't say as to that. I understand, though, that Mr. Morey went 
to box 16. 

Q. How long after you saw the fire was the alarm given that night? 

A. I should think it must have been some eight or ten minutes. No, 
it couldn't have been so long as that. I think it couldn't have been 
more than six or seven minutes. In fact, I heard the alarm before I 
left that box. I can't say how long I was at that box. It seemed longer 
than it was, but I should think five minutes ; and when I first heard the 
alarm strike, I started right for the fire. Before I left my box, I heard 
the alarm. 

JOHN SHEA, sworn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) You are an officer of Station No. 2 ? 
A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Where did you first see or hear of the State-street fire ? What 
was the first thing you knew about it? 
A. I have not my book about me. 
Q. Did you make a minute at the time? 
A. I did, sir. 
Q. Did you see the fire, or hear the cry of " Fire" ? 



565 

A. I heard two men standing at the corner of Broad and Milk streets, 
halloing " Fire." I was then tnrning round the corner of State and 
Broad streets. I went towards them, and went down to box No. 37, 
corner of Central wharf and India street. I gave the alarm at that l)ox 
and received no answer. I remained there five minutes exactly, and had 
no return. Another officer came up by the name of Morey. I told him 
to go to Fanueil Hall and try the box there, and so he did, and he got 
an answer from that box. I believe it was ten minutes of eight o'clock. 
I am not very particular, but I made a minute of it in my book. 

Q. How long do j'ou think it was from the time you heard the cry of 
" Fire" until the alarm was given? 

A. It didn't take me a minute to run ; I ran for it. 

Q. (By Mr. Fiiilbrick.) You had to send Mr. Morey over to 
FaneuilHall? 

A. Yes, sir. After I waited five minutes for an answer (the box was 
out of order, but I wasn't aware of it), when I found I got no return, I 
told Mr. Morey to trj' the Faneuil Hall box. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) Did you hear the bell in about five minutes after 
Mr. Morey left you ? 

A. I did before five minutes. It was five minutes from the time I 
gave the alarm at the box before the alarm was given. 

CHARLES A. PRINCE, sworn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Where were you when the fire broke out on 
the night of Nov. 9th? 

A. When I first heard the alarm, I was at the corner of Charles and 
Beacon streets. 

Q. Did you see the fire before j'^ou heard the alarm? 

A. The alarm first called my attention to the fact, and I looked round, 
and then I saw it immediately. 

Q. Did 3'ou go there immediately ? 

A. I went down there immediately. 

Q. Was there any engine there when j'ou got there? 

A. When I got there, there was no engine there. 

Q. How soon did any engine come? 

A. When I left, no engine had come. I went down to Parker's, where 
I had an engagement, and ran right back again, and when I got there, 
there was an engine there ; but when I was at the top of Beacon street, 
b}'^ the State House, I heard the Charles-street engine coming along, 
drawn by men. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) How fast was it moving? 

A. I can't say. I didn't notice it. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) When you arrived, are j'ou sure there was 
no engine at the lower end of Bedford street? 

A. I can't tell that, sir, but I didn't see any engine. I went right 
down Summer street. 

Q. How far? 

A. I went down, I should think, about to Hovey's. 

Q. You couldn't see into Kingston street at all ? 

A. No, sir. 



566 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Much later in the night, did you see Gen. 
Beiiham, who was engaged in blowing up buildings? 

A. I did. 

Q. Where was it? 

A. It was on Lindall street, just a little below Kilby. I was standing 
there with my father, and a man came up with some fuses on his arm, 
and told the General that the train was lighted ; the General asked liini 
bow long it was, and he said, " Eighteen minutes." My fatlier happened 
to be there, and didn't catch it exactly. He said, " Wliat?" The man 
saj's again, " Eighteen minutes." My father says, " Good God ! why 
don't you have it a daylong?" The building in question was some- 
where near Mr. Smith's. My father asked the General wiiy he didn't 
blow up the building on the soutli-west corner of Lindall aiid Kilby 
streets, and he said he couldn't get the men to do it. 

Q. How near was the fire to the building they were blowing up? 

A. Well, it was so near tliat the powder ultimately went off on ac- 
count of the fire, not on account of the fuse. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) The fire burned down to it? 

A. The fire burned down to the powder. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) Do you know how much powder there was? 

A. No, sir. I recollect it was stated, but I can't tell how much it was 
now. I think he said five hundred pounds, but I don't know. It was a 
heavy charge. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Did you remain there until the powder 
exploded? 

xi. No, sir. I went down street further. I know it took so long that 
the people kept going forwards and back, and finally said that there 
wouldn't be any explosion. It was quite dangerous in that way. 

Q. Was this man acting under Gen. Benham's order, as you under- 
stood ? 

A. Yes, sir. He reported to him. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbuick.) Did Gen. Benham express any surprise or 
disapprobation at the length of the fuse? 

A. No, sir, I don't know that he did. He seemed to chime in with 
my father, I think. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Did you retire with the General to a safe 
pliice ? 

A. I went part of the way. 

Q. {Yiy Mr. Philbuick.) You didn't go as far as he did? 

A. No, sir, I did not. 

Q. {Hy Mr. Firth.) AYas the man you speak of a military man? 

A. 01), no. He was a man dressed in rather rough clothes. I think 
he had a little red beard. If I am not mistaken, part of his clothing 
was a Cardigan. 

FREDERICK M. HINES, sioorn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Are you in the Fire Department? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Connected with what engine? 

A. Foreman of Engine No. 3. 



567 

Q. How long did it take your engine to reacli the fire ? 

A. About eight minutes. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) Where are j^ou stationed? 

A. Just south of Dover street, on Washington street, 

Q. How soon after you reached the fire did you get a stream on? 

A. In al^out four minutes, I should judge. 

Q. Did that stream go through the engine from the hydrant, or did you 
have steam up? 

A. No, sir ; we had steam up. 

Q. Did you have steam up in four minutes after you got there? 

A. We had steam up before we got there. 

Q. Was your water hot when you started? 

A. No, sir, perfectly cold. We can get up steam in about four and a 
half or five minutes at the outside, travelling through tlie streets. 

Q. Do you travel fast enough by hand-power to get it up? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. When you got there did you have the usual supply- of coal? 

A. We had a supply to last us about half an hour ; probably a little 
more than that. 

Q. Then did you get out of coal? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Where did you get fuel? 

A. Went into a house on Kingston street and got some wood. 

Q. Did you lose steam at any time while you were getting that? 

A. No, sir. The Engineer sent word to me he was out of fuel, and I 
went immediately into a house right opposite me and got some out. 

Q. In getting up steam, did you use benzine or any other compound 
of that kind that night? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. How much faster do you think you should have gone if j^ou had 
had horses? In how much shorter time should 3^ou have got tliere? 

A. It might have made two minutes' difterence in the time of getting 
there ; not over that. T will state, that we were dela3'ed in getting to 
work after we got to the fire by tlie crowd that was there. We had to 
drive them out of the wa3Mvith sticks and anj'thing we could get in order 
to get to work. We threatened them ; we didn't strike any one, of course, 
but we threatened to if they didn't get out of the way. 

Q. (B}' Mr. Fhilbrick.) You were located at the corner of Kingston 
and Bedford streets? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. How soon after j-ou got tliere did you go for wood ? 

A. In about half an hour. The Engineer sent word to me he was out 
of fuel. We had two or three lumps in the tender when lie sent word to 
me that he had got to have fuel or shut down on the water. I knew it 
would probably be some time before we could get coal, and I went into 
the first house I came to and got some wood. 

SAMUEL ABBOTT, sicorn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) You belong to Engine No. 3 ? 
A. I do, sir. 



568 

Q. What is your post ? 

A. Hoseman. 

Q. How soon after you got to the great fire did you get a stream on 
the fire ? 

A. I can't tell you exactly about that. We were bothered about get- 
ting to work at the hydrant on account of the crowd. It might have 
been eight or ten minutes. 

Q. Did 3' ou have steam up when you got there ? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Did you have coal ? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Did you have the usual supply of coal ? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Later in the evening, did you get out of coal and have to use 
■wood ? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. How long after j'-ou began to play on the fire was that? 

A. I can't tell you anything about that, sir ; I was on the pipe. 



SAMUEL ABBOTT, Jr., sworn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Are you connected with Engine No. 3 ? 

A. I am, sir. 

Q. What is your position ? 

A. Hoseman. 

Q. How soon after you got to the fire did you have a stream on the 
fire? 

A. Well, in five minutes, I think. ' 

Q. Was there any delay after you got there? 

A. There was a delay in getting a connection with the hydrant on ac- 
count of the number of persons on the sidewalk about the hydrant. We 
couldn't get to the hydrant as quick as we could if they hadn't been 
there, on account of the dense crowd. 

Q. How did 3'ou get rid of them? 

A. I took a lantern (we run with the old lanterns that they ran with 
in the hand-department), and I took it and held it over some of their 
heads and cleared them away from the hydrant. 

Q. Was there any other cause of delay than that? 

A. That is all. 

Q. Was steam up? 

A. Steam was up. 

Q. Did you have the usual supply of coal? 

A. The same that we always liave. 

Q. Did you get out of coal afterwards ? 

A. We did. 

Q. How soon was that after you arrived ? 

A. I can't tell you tliat, because I was on the pipe. 

Q. Do you know whetlier, when you first got there, any benzine or 
anything of that kind was used? 

A. No, sir. 



569 

Q. Any burning fluid? 

A. Noit that I know of. 

Q. Was there any unusual smoke about the fire? 

A. Not that 1 know of. 

WINFIELD S. LAWRENCE, siuoryi. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Do you belong to No. 3 engine ? 

A. I do, sir. 

Q. What is your position? 

A. Hoseman. 

Q. On the night of the fire, how soon did you get a stream on after 
you got there? 

A. Tiiat would be difficult for me to answer correctly. I should judge, 
though, that we got a stream on in from three to five minutes from the 
time the machine arrived. 

Q. Was there any delay? 

A. There was. 

Q. From what cause? 

A. Well, it was on account of the people congregated on the corner 
where the hj'ih-ant was that we took. We had to drive them back with 
wood that we took from the tender. That is, I had a stick in each hand, 
and talked pretty loud, and we had hard work to drive the crowd back. 

Q. Did you move your hands with the wood in them? 

A. I did, and struck one tall hat of a gentleman. I can't say who he 
was, but I had to do so. 

Q. Was there any other cause of delay ? 

A. None that I know of. 

Q. Was steam up when you got there? 

A. Yes, sir. We had steam up when we got there, ready to go to 
work ? 

Q. Did 3'ou have the usual supply of coal.? 

A. Yes, sir, in the tender, we did. 

Q. Did you get out of coal afterwards? 

A. We did. 

Q. Do you know how soon after 3'Ou got there you got out of coal? 

A. No, sir, I do not, but I should judge it was somewhere from fifteen 
to twenty minutes ; it might have been longer than that, I can't say as 
to that, because I was attending to the business I was appointed to at- 
tend to. 

Q. Was benzine or an}?- burning fluid used to kindle the fire in the 
steamer when 3'ou first got there? 

A. No, sir. The fire was lighted before we got anywhere near there. 
I met the machine on Beach street, living down that wa}^ and when I 
got there, the machine came along, and then I hitched on to it, and I 
should judge the steam was up at that time. 

Q. Did you see any peculiar smoke, as if they were burning fluid? 

A. No, sir, I did not. 



570 



WILLIAM T. IIINES, sworn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) You belong to Engine No. 3 ? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. What is your position? 

A. Hose man. 

Q. How soon after you got to tlie great fire did you get a stream on ? 

A. I should think in about four minutes. 

Q. Was there any delay? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. On what account? 

^•1. The great crowd in the street there. We had to break through it. 

Q. Was there any other cause of delay ? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. Was steam up.? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Did 3^ou have the usual supply of coal when you got there? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. How soon did you get out of coal, to the best of your judgment? 

A. We got out of coal in about ten minutes, I should think. 

Q. What did you do then? 

A. We got wood out of two or three houses there, — blinds, casings, 
and one thing and another. 

Q. Did they use benzine or any other burning fluid in kindling the fire? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. Did 3'ou see any strange smoke ? 

A. No, sir. ' 

Adjourned 'to Thursday, three o'clock. 



571 



NINETEENTH DAY. 

Thursday, December 26. 

JULIUS L. CLARKE, sworn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) What office do you hold? 

A. Insurance Commissioner of the State of Massachusetts. 

Q. When did you arrive here after your return from Europe? 

A. I sailed from Liverpool on the 7th of November. 

Q. Did you have any conversation while in England about what is now 
the burnt district? 

A. The construction of the buildings in this district was a theme of 
common conversation between English underwriters and myself in Lon- 
don and Liverpool. Immediately after the Chicago fire, they sent over 
to this country their best underwriters, men who were experienced in the 
character of insurance risks. Their first purpose was to secure plans of 
American cities. They commenced that work immediately. Their first 
plans were at Chicago and San Francisco, next New York, and lastly 
Boston, and they are going on to secure plans of all our other cities. 
Immediately after receiving their plan of Chicago, and understanding 
the location of its streets, and the character of its buildings, some of the 
companies issued orders for the cancellation of large amounts of risks. 
While I was in Liverpool, a single company sent orders to cancel a large 
portion of its risks in Chicago, and in San Francisco, based upon infor- 
mation which they had obtained from the plans transmitted to them. 
These plans, by the way, are the most perfect plans you can imagine. 
Just before I visited Liverpool, the plan of Boston had been received, 
showing the location of all our streets, and man}'^ of the lanes and alleys, 
the construction of the buildings, their surroundings, their means of pro- 
tection, and everything else ap[)eitaining to the character of risks ; and 
in London and Liverpool, the character of risks in this burnt district of 
Boston was a theme of frequent reference. The feeling among under- 
writers was, that risks in that locality were of an extra hazardous char- 
acter, and I was given to understand that it was their purpose to imme- 
diately make a thorough investigation, and issue directions for the can- 
cellation of risks here. I have no doubt that if this fire had not occurred 
until six months later, instead of about four millions and a half which 
now comes to Boston for the pa3-ment of losses from English companies, 
the risks would have been cancelled to sucli an extent that probably not 
more than one-half of that amount would have been found within this 
burnt district. On the evening before I sailed, I had a conversation with 
some English nnderwriters upon the character of these risks, and one of 
the gentlemen present, who had a little while before received his plan of 
Boston, made this remark to me, as he came to bid me good-bye : " Mr. 
Clarke, we look upon your Boston, especially upon Franklin street and 



572 

Devonshire street, and that whole localit_y, as the next most likely place 
for a Chicago fire." I said, " What do yon mean? Please explain why 
3'ou tliink so." He referred to the plan which he had just received and 
stiid, " Our Directors have been looking it over, and we find that al- 
though your walls are comparatively thick, yet the great number of nar- 
row streets which are located in that vicinity, and tlie great lieiglit of the 
buiklings, and the tinder-boxes on their tops (using his own language), 
are reasons for looking upon risks in that locality as of such a hazardous 
character." And I was told by this gentleman, and by others, that very 
soon they should give orders for the cancellation of their risks, to a very 
large extent, wherever it could be done without wrong to the policy- 
holders. It was the general feeling among all those underwriters, that 
the construction of buildings in very many of our American cities was 
of such a character, that the writing of risks must be suspended, 
in a very great measure, by English companies. The}^ had come to en- 
tertain a great deal of fear in that connection. 

Q. Have you read the Building Act wliich passed this Legislature? 

A. I have not read it carefully ; I have not had time to look over the 
amendments. 

Q. (}^y Mr. Corb.) "Was anything said by the English underwriters 
concerning our means of extinguishing fires? 

A. Yes, sir ; the general impression was, that our Fire Departments 
were not so efficiently organized as the English Fire De|)artnieMts, and 
in connection with that subject, I was shown an illustration, at midnight, 
of the operation of what they term " The Salvage Corps." We have 
nothing like it in this country. The nearest organization to it is one ex- 
isting in Philadelphia. The purpose of the organization is to save prop- 
erty from destruction by fire, and injury by water. This corps is provided 
with tarpaulins and other means of pi-otection. Their duty is, on the first 
alarm to go to the place of the fire, go into the premises, see what prop- 
. erty is within and what is most exposed, remove that which is necessary 
to be removed, and protect the remainder by covering it with their tar- 
paulins, and other means of covering, so as to prevent damage by water. 
The removal of property by that corps amounts to a very large sum. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Have we not something like that in Boston, 
in the Insurance Brigade? 

A. There is something like it, but it is not organized with anything 
like the efficiency which exists in London, Liverpool, and other English 
cities. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) Is that sustained by the public? 

A. No, sir; the companies do that. I will state one thing further. In 
connection with the Chicago, and other large fires, it appeared to me, 
from such information as 1 was able to glean, that the English companies 
had not been conversant with the character of the risks which their rep- 
resentatives had taken in this country. The moment the Chicago fire 
ha[)pened, they sent t'aeir best men over here to investigate, and they 
found such a state of things existing, that they are cancelling risks in all 
directions in this country, and it has become a (juestion with them, 
whether it is advisable for them to continue writing risks in American 
cities. One very large company, and one of the best and strongest of 



573 

the English companies, is to-day hesitating about coming to America for 
that reason. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) Is that a company that has never done business 
here? 

A. Yes, sir. As I have said, I have not the slightest doubt, that, if 
this fire could have been postponed six months, Boston would have lost 
four millions that it gets now. 

THEODORE HERSEY, sivorn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Are you a member of Engine No. 21? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. How long did it take you to come to the fire? 

A. I can give you a little history about getting in to that fire that will 
probably be of some little benefit to you. I was at my place of business 
at Upham's Corner, in the Sixteenth Ward, when the first alarm of fire 
was turned in. I came out of doors as soon as I heard tlie alarm, and 
saw the fire ; and the alarms came in pretty lively. When the third 
alarm struck, I went to the engine-house, and found they were all ready 
to start. The ropes were lengthened out, and plenty of men there. The 
moment the fourth alarm struck, which comes in first on the ticker in the 
house, we went out of the house, and we went very quick indeed. At 
Washington Village there were plenty of fresh men to take hold, and at 
No. 15's house, in South Boston (I think she had not gone out) 
there were men standing who wanted to take her out, and they all bent 
on to our engine. To-day is a pretty stormy day, but to make more 
sure of this thing, I started from 2rs house, and timed myself 
from that point to Summer street, and I walked it in tliirty-two minutes 
to-da}^ true time ; and now I am confident in stating here, that to the 
best of my judgment, that engine came in inside of twenty-five minutes 
on the night of the fire. 

Q. What was 3'our opinion before? 

A. AVell, I have set it from twenty-five to thirty minutes ; that was 
my opinion, judging from the distance. It is a road I have travelled a 
great many times. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) How much would you have saved if you had had 
horses ? 

A. Well, sir, we might have saved five minutes. I think on the night 
of the fire at Rand & Avery's we were not over twenty minutes coming 
to the h^'drant in front of the Court House. 

Q. They had horses then ? 

A. Yes, sir ; I think the engine from Washington Village to Summer 
street, after we struck the railroad track, came just about as fast as it 
would with horses. You know how excited men get when they have 
hold of an engine rope, if they do not have a chance to run. I am a 
pretty good runner, and I had all I wanted to do to keep up. 

B. F. PALMER, sivorn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Do you reside in East Boston? 
A. Yes, sir. 



574 

Q. Did 3'ou come over to the fire on Sunday night, the 10th of No- 
vember ? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. With what engine? 

A. P^ngine 11 ; I thinlv that is the number. 

Q. At what time did 3'ou start? 

A. I cannot from memory tell you. I only remember generally that 
she was a long while getting to the fire. 

Q. As near as you can state, how long was she coming? 

A. From the time the alarm was given to the time she got to her place 
to work, it was about an hour and a half. 

Q. Was there any dela}' at the ferr}- ? 

A. The engine did not arrive at the ferry until some time after I got 
there. Then from the ferry on this side, to the fire, we were good half 
an hour. I do not remember now, but I think it was about forty minutes 
from the time we arrived at the ferry until we got to the corner of Temple 
Place, where she went to work. We drew her up by hand. I found 
they were going to be a long while, and I took hold and helped pull her 
up. 

Q. Did you look at your watch ? 

A. Yes, sir ; I did at the time, and it is fixed in my mind that it was 
about an hour and a half from the time the alarm struck until she got on 
the ground to work. 

Q. Do you think you used j'our watch in regard to the forty minutes? 

A. I am not sure that I took it out then. I would not be positive 
about the forty minutes. I want I0 say that I find fault about the 
horses. They say that there are no horses provided except for East 
Boston, and she had no right over here, except by order of Mr. Barnes. 
He took the responsibility of ordering her over here, outside the general 
order of the full board. 

I understood from what I heard that night that no engine or hose 
carriage can leave there unless by order of the engineer in charge. 
When I got to the ferry, there was a hose carriage standing there, and I 
asked the engineer why he didn't go over. He said he could not go 
over except by order of the Engineer. I went on board the boat, 
waited some few minutes, and Mr. Barnes, the Engineer, came along, 
and went into the cabin, and was adjusting his necktie. A fireman 
came in, and told him No. 11 nad arrived, and said he, "Tell her to 
come on board ; " so that she had waited half an hour. I have learned 
since, from some of the Engineers, that the engine had no business here, 
that there were no horses to bring her over ; that horses were provided 
for her in case of a fire in East Boston only. 



JOHN S. DAMRELL, recalled. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) I want to inquire what the practical effect of 
the order issued by you on the 2Gth of October was. I will read the 
order : — 



575 

"Fire Department Office, City Hael 

Boston, Oct. 2(3, 1872, 5 o'clock, p.m. 
<' To the Cliief of Police : 

"Dear Sir, — Will you cause the following instructions to be promulgated to the several police 
districts in the city propi-r : — 

" On the discovery of fire by any of the ofBcers, they will endeavor to locate the fire as near as 
possible, and if it appears to be below the third story, they will give an alarm from the nearest 
box ; if above the third story, they will give an alarm and repeat the same as soon as the lirst alarm 
is done striking. This is necessary, in order to aid the Board of Engineers in carrying out the rules 
adopted to meet the present exigencies. Please instruct the officers to spring their rattles and cry 
'Fire,' giving also the number of the box, in case of an alarm in the night time. 

" I remain, yours, etc., 

"JOHN S. DAMRELL, 

" Chief Engineer.^'' 



A. The Board of Engineers districted tlie city of Boston into nine 
fire districts, and tlie apparatus is so arranged that tlie first, second and 
third alarms will call out certain pieces of apparatus. The first alarm 
being sounded, it is supposed that it will take the engines from five to 
eight minutes to get upon the ground. The matter of the horse disease 
coming before the Board at a special meeting, the}' considered all the 
difficulties that might arise, and in order that there should be no delay- 
whatever in the summons, this communication was sent to the Chief of 
Police, asking that that authority be exercised by the officers, which has 
heretofore been exercised by the Engineer who first arrived upon the 
ground. When, in his judgment, the threatening appearance of the fire 
warranted a second alarm, he was instructed to give it at once, this 
being done to save the eight or ten minutes that would be lost without 
such an order. For instance, a police officer, under the old arrange- 
ment, after sounding the first alarm, would wait until an Engineer came 
upon the ground, before giving the second alarm, which would have con- 
sumed eight or ten minutes. B}' this arrangement, the apparatus called 
out by the second alarm would get to the fire eight or ten minutes 
sooner than under the old plan. Then, again, it works in a different 
way. For instance, the second alarm calls certain engines that do not 
respond on the first alarm. It gave us eight or ten minutes' advance on 
the engines coming in to the fire who would respond to the second alarm 
which did not respond to the first alarm. The third alarm brings in the 
engines that respond to that alarm certainly eight or ten minutes sooner 
than they would otherwise reach the fire. 

Q. To make it clearer, suppose you tell us what engines would have 
come to this fire on the first alarm? 

A. Nos. 3, 4, 6, 7, 8 and 10, go on the first alarm. 
Q. Now, what engines go on the second alarm? 
A. No. 1 is the only one that responds to the second alarm. 
Q. What other apparatus would come on the second alarm ? 
A. On the second alarm would come Hose 4 and 5. On the first 
alarm come Hose 9 (at South Boston), Hose 8, Hose 3, Hose 2, 
and Hose 1, Hook-and-Ladder companies 1 and 3, with the two 
extinguisher wagons. We have to make arrangements so as not 
to leave uncovered certain sections of the city. Fur instance, we 
cannot bring, except by special call of an Engineer, certain appa- 
ratus from South Boston to the city proper, unless an alarm is 
sounded from South Boston, which would call a special alarm, and tlien 
sound that from that point. Tliere is an impression abroad in the com- 
munity that the third alarm might be sounded as indicating a great fire. 



576 

It is not so. For instance, an alarm of fire is sounded in the Highland 
district ; a second alarm does not bring a single piece of apparatus ; it 
simpl^v notifies the engines furtlier down in town that all that territory 
is uncovered, and they are obliged to respond to the first alarm, where 
by the rules they do not ordinarily respond until the second, thereby 
covering certain portions of our territory- which are left uncoveied by 
the apparatus going away, 

Q. Win 3'^ou repeat the order during the horse disease? 

A. During the horse disease, the vote of the Board was, that the de- 
partment be doubled, by the addition of five hundred men, to meet the 
exigency. 

Q. Was there ever any order given as to not using horses? 

A. Oh, no, sir. Allow me to say, right here, that each Engineer is 
made responsible for certain pieces of apparatus, to care for and look 
after, and he is left with full power, in case of emergency, to get horses, 
and levy upon them wherever he can. It would be impossible to issue 
an order that would cover all cases of emergency. We could not possi- 
bly do it. For instance, the Engineer in the Sixteenth District hail full 
authority, and the authority was also conferred on the foremen, in case a 
special call was made, to get horses anywhere they could, and come in 
with them. 

Q. When was that authority given ? 

A. That authority was given at the time we had our meeting. 

Q. Have you a record of the votes passed at that meeting? 

A. I have not, on this subject. You will see by the City Ordinance 
that it is not required. A good many people have the idea that the 
Chief can do all this, but he cannot. If you will allow me, I will read 
Section 4 of the Ordinance : — 

" The Engineers shall, at such times as they may by their hy-laws determine, hold such meetings 
as may be necessary for the prompt transaction of all business coming before them, and a majority of 
the whole Board shall be necessary to constitute a quorum. They may make such rules and ortlcrs 
for their government, as a Board of Engineers, as they may see fit, subject to the approval of the 
joint Committee of the City Council. They shall be responsible for the discipline, good order, and 
proper conduct of the whole Department, both officers and men, and for the care of all houses, 
engines, hc.se-carriages, hook and ladder carriages, horses, furniture, and apparatus thereto belong- 
ing. They shall have the superintendence and control of all the engine and other houses used for 
the purjjoses of the Fire Department and of all the horses, furniture, and apparatus thereto belong- 
ing, and of the engines and all other fire apparatus belonging to the city, and over the officers and 
members of the several companies attached "o the Fire Department, and over all persons present at 
fires; and they may make such rules and regulations for the better government, discipline, and good 
order of the department, and for the extinguishment of fires, as they may from time to time think 
expedient; such rules and regulattions not being repugnant to tlie laws of the Commonwealth, nor 
,to any ordinance of the city, and being suljject to the approval of the joint committee of the City 
Council, and to alteration or revocation by them at any time." 

It was under that provision that the Board of Engineers made the 
•arrangement to meet the exigencies occasioned by the horse disease. 

Q. Has your attention ever been called to the difficulty of giving 
alarms, in consequence of some defect in the boxes? 

A. Quite often, sir. 

Q. What is the trouble? 

A. Well, we report to the Superintendent of Fire Alarms, and there 
our responsibility ends. We have nothing to do with it, except simply 
to notify him of the fact. 

Q. To what committee does that belong? 



577 

A. To a separate committee from the Committee on the Fire Depart- 
ment — the Committee on Fire-Alarms. . I believe that Alderman Cobb 
will bear testiraon}^ to the fact, that I asked to have the two committees 
united, believing that, as the fire-alarm system was a part of the Fire 
Department, it should be controlled by one committee. 

Q. How often do you suppose that such reports have been made? 

A. Constantly ; every day. 

Q. Do you know an^'thing about the defects, or reported defects, on 
the night of the State-street tire ? 

A. I was not present at the fire, but I was immediately notified that 
the alarm was turned in from the proper box, and after waiting a suffi- 
cient time, and finding there was no alarm, they had to go from that 
place to Faneuil Hall to give the alarm. 

Q. How were you notified of that? 

A. By the Engineers. 

Q. And upon that, what was your action? 

A. Simply to notify Mr. Kennard, by word of mouth, that that was 
the case. He has always been prompt, as far as I know, to rectif^^ any 
deficiency, or make any necessary repairs. There is constant complaint 
about the boxes being out of order. 

Q. Has your attention ever been called to the question whether there 
cannot be some way of insuring an alarm, rather than leave it as a mere 
accident ? 

A. AVell, sir, it is mere accident. My judgment is, that the City Hall 
is one of the proper lookouts, and should be made available for all pur- 
poses of that kind, and that any unusual smoke, or anything of that 
kind, indicating fire, should warrant the telegraph operators in striking 
an alarm in the closest proximity' possible to that, without waiting for 
somebody to turn it in. 

Q. Is there an}^ practical wa}^ of having more persons furnished with 
keys to the boxes ^ 

A. Well, sir, there are several amendments that ought to be made. 
I do not want to find fault with the course that has been adopted b}- a 
department over which I have no control, but rules have been made 
which have worked very detrimentally to our citizens ; viz., the rules at- 
tached to the turning in of an alarm. For instance, this : "• Be sure that 
there is a fire before sounding the alarm." One of the greatest difficulties 
that we have to encounter comes from that rule. To show j-ou how it 
operates : suppose there is a fire in Harvard place ; the watchman goes 
away round through Temple place, crying " Fire," through Tremont street, 
down School street, and into the station in Court square. When he gets 
there, he goes in and says, " There is a fire in Harvard place." The 
officer in the station says, " I must go out and see." He goes out and 
sees that there is a fire, and after that, turns in the alarm. At the time 
of the fire in Congress street, about a 3'ear ago, a man told a police offi- 
cer there was a fire there, and he says, " I must go and see whether 
there is or not." He did not take the citizen's word, but had to go 
away back to the scene of the fire, and then go and give the alarm. I' 
think that, while it may have been intended as a corrective, it really 
works very batUy. 

37 



578 

Q. (By Mr. Cobu.) You think it would be better to have four false 
alarms than to have any delay in reaching an actual fire? 

A. Yes, sir. As I have said to some gentlemen who have asked rae 
about it, " Give the alarm first, and then do your best to extinguish the 
fire. If you try to extinguish the fire, and fail, and give the alarm after- 
wards, the opportune time has gone by." " Never let the key go out of 
your possession, except called for by the Superintendent." That is all 
very well ; but I have seen instances like this : A man who keeps an 
apothecary store has a key. A citizen comes to his store at night and 
gives an alarm of fire ; he hesitates about giving the maii the kej- to the 
box, because the rule says, " Never let it go out of your possession," and 
he must stop and dress himself before he gives the alarm. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) ■ Has the Chief Engineer an}' staff to carry 
messages ? 

A. I have a member of the fire alarm at the north section of the city, 
and a member at the south section, who reports to me as soon as possible 
upon the fire-ground, and waits any message I may have, for fire-alarm 
purposes. That is for that special department. I have no special mes- 
sengers, any more than to detail this man and that man, hoseman, or 
whatever he may be, to do whatever may suggest itself to my mind for 
the time being. 

Q. Do you know anything about scaffolds for raising pipes, so that 
they can play water without playing from the street? 

A. Yes, sir ; there is a hose-elevator iu Chicago, and one which I ap- 
prove of very much. 

Q. How long have they had it? 

A. About a year. 

Q. Since the great fire? 

A. They had it before the great fire. I went on to see it before the 
great fire, and saw it raised. 

Q. How high does that carry the pipe? 

A. About sixty feet. 

Q. Is it constructed of iron or wood? 

A. Of wood. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) Have you ever recommended its use here? 

A. No, sir ; from the fact that those streets where it would be of use 
to us here are not wide enough to bring the carriage in and use it. Tiie 
carriage is something like fifteen feet wide between the wheels, and if it 
was put in one of our narrow streets, it would block up the passage. In 
our wide streets, such as Treraont street, it would not be necessary. 
That is the reason I do not recommend it. 

Q. Do you use any hose-bridges, except for horse-railroads ? 

A. No, sir ; only for horse-railroads. 

Q. Is it not desirable to have them ? 

A. It would be desirable to have them, and I have no doubt they could 
be brought into practical use by establishing a company who should make 
that a specialty. I do not think it could be made available for use iu any 
other way. 

Q. Can you tell us now how many firemen were killed and how many 
were maimed on the night of the fire? 

A. I can't say from memory ; I have a record of them, which I will 



579 

send yon. I would like to make a statement here about one matter 
which I think should be investigated, and about which I have felt con- 
siderably aggrieved. At a very early period in the evening, I sent an 
officer to the Deputy Chief of Police, with the request that he would report 
to me with fifty men, and I would give them tiie necessary authority to 
open any store or dwelling-liouseand take from it carpets for the purpose 
of covering tlie roofs of the buildings in the range of the fire. I waited 
patiently, but no report came to me from the officer whom I sent ; but 
sutisequently I met the Deputy Chief of Police, and asked him the ques- 
tion where his men were, and why he did not report to me. He an- 
swered that he had no men, or he couldn't get any, or they were all en- 
gaged. Of course, I had no time to debate the matter then, but subse- 
quently I was called to the City Hall, and a gentleman requested that a 
sufficient force of police should be detailed to aid certain persons in the 
work which they were undertaking, and the Chief of Police notified him 
then that he could have all the men he wanted. I thought then, as I 
think now, that it was very strange. If the men could be had at a later 
hour, they certainly could have been collected for so important a Avork 
at an earlier hour, and I do not know why it was not done. I think it 
should be inquired into, to say the least, because I have no knowledo-e 
of any police alarm being given which could call the entire force to the 
rescue. They should have been called by the police-alarm, for I am un- 
der the im[)ression that there were many police officers at home and a-bed 
who might have been doing valiant service to the city of Boston, had the 
police-alarm been sounded and called them to the ground. But of course, 
I do not know anything about it. 1 felt then, as I feel now, that a request 
of that kind should liave been answered, either with regular policemen, 
or policemen who could have been sworn in by the proper parties, within 
fifteen minutes, from our citizens, who would have aided very much in 
that work. 

Q. Will you give us the regulations in regard to Steamer 11, at East 
Boston ? 

A. Steamers 9 and 11 are not allowed to come to the city proper 
only alternately^ unless especially sent for. That is, for instance, if En- 
gine No. 9 comes one month. Engine No. 11 may come the next month. 

Q. How was it at the time of the fire on Sunday night? 

A. No. 11 came, but against orders. Arrangements were made for 
horses to do the work at East Boston, in answer to all calls from the 
boxes there, but no arrangement was made to take them this side, be- 
cause there was no reason to believe, with the lai-ge amount of force we 
had here, there would be any occasion to call them into service. We 
had some ten steam-fire engines on tiie ground from out of town, besides 
our own apparatus, and our five reserve engines, which were in active 
service. 

Q. How did she happen to come over? 

A. The engineer, Capt. Barnes, came down to the ferry and came 
over, and took No. 11 over with him. 

Q. I su[)pose you cannot account for her coming so slowly? 

A. No, sir ; 1 had no knowledge that she was on the ground, for I did 
not expect her. 

Q. You say Capt. Barnes came with her? 



580 

* 

A. Yes, sir. That is to sa}--, I so lUKlerstood from the men. They 
said Capt. Barnes came with her. 

Q. There has been some criticism in regard to the manner of playing 
on buildings where the water did not reach to the fire, and it has been 
said that a great deal of water was wasted in washing tlie windows and 
granite fronts of buildings, without any effect, the windows not being 
laroken. Do 3'ou know anything about that? 

A. I have no doubt that in many cases such was the fact. It was a 
matter that we could not possibly overcome. There was a large num- 
ber of engines from out of town, and the_y were in the streets. If j^ou 
got the men into a building, no sooner did you leave, than they were 
out. All the water that was pla^-ed from the street that night was per- 
fectly fruitless ; it did not amount to anything, I mean, in the earlier 
stages of the night, when the fire was -among the higher buildings, 

Q. Take the earliest stages of the fire, when there was nothing here 
but Boston engines ; did you see anything of the kind then? 

A. Nothing of the kind, except this : We have twenty-one engines 
and ten hose companies. Those ten hose companies are independent of 
the engine companies, located in different sections of our city. When 
they get to a fire, where the fire is above the third story, they imme- 
diately connect with an engine, because the hydrants are not available, 
the engines being connected with the hydrants. We then take two 
streams, the engine company furnishing a line of hose for themselves, 
and the hose company, attaching to the engine, runs off another line ; 
consequently. Engine No. 4, for instance, would play her own stream, 
and she would also play Hose I's stream. Now, the hydrant supplying 
both lines through the engine, we get just as much water, but not so 
powerful streams as we should if there was only one line playing. Hose 
I may be in a very important position, and we are obliged to shut off 
4's stream in order to supply them. That pipe may be some distance 
from the engine in the street, and the moment word should be passed to 
give Hose 1 all the water, you would see the water from No. 4's pipe 
come out on the street. There would be no use in keeping men in the 
smoke without an adequate stream. We had a good many feeble 
streams, occasioned by shutting off the water from one line in order to 
get as full force as possible on the other. Men are very anxious to do 
all they possibly can, and they would play when in fact good judgment 
wouUi have dictated that the water should have been entirely shut off, if 
itcould be done. But then, in many cases, they did not know the posi- 
tion of affairs. You cannot communicate immediately with the men 
holding the pipe. For instance, one stream is in the upper part of a 
building, and the other is in the second flat below ; 3'ou cannot com- 
muuicute from one to the other sufficiently quick to have them stop play- 
ing. I have been experimenting for two months with two devices de- 
signed to overcome that difficulty. One is what we call a water telegraph, 
by which to communicate instantaneously from the pipe to the engine. 
That i^ done by a swivelling nose-piece, which, being gradually turned, 
shuts the water off from the pipe, stops the stream entirely, and tliat 
ppens the relief valve at the engine, and passes the vvater into the street, 
which the engineer notices at once, and knows the water is shut off. The 
.moment, it is opened again, the valve shuts, he sees no water, and knows 



581 



the engine is playing. The other is a telegraphic signal, so arranged 
that by touching a knob on the pipe, a gong is strticlc on the engine, by 
which we can communicate with the engineer : We want more or less 
water, shut down, or stop. That has worked very satisfactorily, and I 
am in hopes to get it introduced through the department, but it takes 
time to bring about these improvements. That matter was referred by 
the Committee on Fire Alarms to the Superintendent of Fire Alarms, as 
an expert electrician, to report whether, in his opinion, it was practicable 
or not. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) On the first alarm that night, was all the appara- 
tus called out that is usually called by a first alarm, or more, or less? 

A. On the first alarm, I think it is understood that the first five blows 
indicate that the hose is to be taken at once ; the second calls for every- 
thing that alwa^'s goes on the first alarm. 

Q. In view of the then condition of the horses, don't 3'ou think it 
would have been better if you had made a diff'erent arrangement, where- 
by, on the first alarm coming from a bad box (which you call box fifty- 
two) you could have had everything there on the first alarm ? 

A. Well, sir, there are a good many points that, knowing what we 
know now, we probabl}' should have changed ; but from our past expe- 
rience at that time, knowing the diff'erent localities of our city, and the 
vast number of tinder-boxes which are scattered all over the city, I do 
not know that I should not, without this present information, do just the 
same thing again. For instance : just look over the whole field. En- 
gine No. 3 is located on Washington street, just beyond Dover. With 
this exception, we have not a single steam fire engine in that part of the 
city, where tliere are a great man}- high buildings, piano-forte factories, 
for instance, and those large family hotels, where hose companies would 
not be available. Now, if one of those hotels had caught fire, and any 
lives had been lost for the want of a steam engine, I should have regret- 
ted it all my life. Box fifty-two is considered to be one of the bad boxes. 
Why bad? Simply because in those buildings we have all the wa}^ from 
one hundred to five hundred thousand dollars' worth of property. That 
is why we call that a bad box, and then the}^ are so contiguous to other 
property, by being built up so closely, that we are liable to a conflagra- 
tion there ; it is so understood. 

Q. In view of the difficulty of moving your apparatus, by reason of 
this epidemic among the horses, don't 3'ou think it would have been bet- 
ter to have arranged to have had a larger force called out on the first 
alarm ? 

A. I will tell you, gentlemen, — I am entirely frank in this matter, — 
so far as regards the movement of the apparatus in the city proper, the 
emulation that exists among the several companies in the department 
will prevent any loss of time. Every inch of ground, I know, has been 
measured with a tape line over and over again, and the idea of letting 
one company get to that box four feet in advance of another would not 
be tolerated by the companies for a single moment. Now, during the 
horse disease, the companies were all in their houses, there was a large 
number of volunteers on hand, waiting to earn their dollar whenever an 
alarm should be struck, and we did not apprehend that the apparatus 
would be delayed one single moment during that time. Then we had 



582 

cautioned the Engineers to be on the alert all the time. I tell j^on, vre 
felt that our horses were getting well, the}'' were convalescent, and we 
had made arrangements to double up our teams. We did not suppose 
that one minute or two minutes would make an}'^ essential difterence ; but 
had I known that a building was to be so quickl}?^ literally consumed (a 
sight I never before beheld), I certainly should have taken greater pre- 
cautions. But I do not think any gentleman in this city had any reason 
to expect such a thing. 

Q. (By Mr. Rdssell.) "Was there ever any discussion among the 
Engineers, or in the Committee on the Fire Department, so fjir as you 
know, in regard to getting other horses to replace those that were sick? 

A. Yes, sir, there was somie, and we went to one or two places with a 
view to get horses, but we found they were in as bad condition as our 
own. As to taking green horses, that is one of the worst things in the 
"world. If you harness green horses to an engine, they are sensitive to 
the flying cinders, the smoke, and the shouting in the streets, and it is 
not easy to control them. For instance, we have driven the horses up to 
a building on fire, and found that it was impossible to drive them through 
the smoke. Then again, we got into a tight place out in Cambridge, 
where we were hemmed in by the flames. An ordinary pair of horses 
would never have brought the engine out, but our trained horses came 
right through the flames. 

Q. Would it not have been possible to supply the place of your horses? 

A. I don't believe that, in the city proper, we could have gained much 
time by supplying the place of the horses. I should rather rely on the 
additional men to take the apparatus promptly to the fire_, than on strange 
horses. I am very glad now that the Board of Engineers was discreet 
and wise enough to organize those five hundred men, because we had 
that large extra force on duty at the fire, to take the lines of hose to the 
upper parts of buildings, or wherever they were wanted. "We had been 
reduced to our minimum strength, we increased to the maximum, by tak- 
ing five hundred extra men. Whatever delay there might have been in 
getting in was more than made up by the extra men. 

Q. How were they paid ? 

A. One dollar for going *^o the fire, and twenty-five cents an hour for 
all the time they served. In regard to the engines at a great distance, 
at Dorchester, for instance, I confess that the absence of horses would 
make considerable difference to them ; but of course we did not contem- 
plate having to call for them. We supposed that with the ordinary success 
that had always attended us, we should be able to extinguish any fire in 
the city proper without calling for them. In Roxbury, the Engineers, if 
they saw a light, were to move without waiting for the alarm, and get 
horses wherever they could. 

Q. When was that order giA^en? 

A. That was an arrangement that was understood by talking it up in 
the Board of Engineers. For instance ; a body of gentlemen looking 
the field all over, agreed to do certain things, to guard against certain con- 
tingencies ; the whole Board a perfect unit, acting together upon one 
plan. And to show you that they meant business, I will say, that the 
Engineers having charge of the several companies travelled round Sat- 
urday night (which you recollect was a very rainy night) with the ropes 



583 

on their backs, and delivered tbem to the several captains, so that they 
should be ready to move. 



THOMAS C. SARGENT, sicorn. 

Q. (By Mr. Eussell.) Are you a police officer? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Where? 

A. Ill Charlestown. 

Q. How long have you been an officer? 

A. Twelve years. 

Q. Did you see any pilfering at the great fire? 

A. Yes, sir ; I was on Milk street at about half-past three P. M., on 
Sunday, and saw Goodyear's rubber store broken open. There was a 
promiscuous crowd of firemen, who smashed in the windows and doors. 
There was no fire there then, and no hose. They took gloves and small 
articles, and secreted them in their pockets. They put on tln-ee or four 
coats, and carried tliem away b}^ the armfull. I went into the store, 
but had no authority. I took notes from their hats, and asked them 
wdiere they belonged. The initials were "N. F. D." They said they be- 
longed in Newton Centre. I saw a dozen of these men. Another party 
had letters, ''M. L. D." There were eighteen or twenty of them. They 
said tliey belonged in Medford. Anotlier small party had " Hancock S. 
L. W." on their belts. I asked Alderman Jenks what it meant. He 
said it was a Boston steamer. He said, "This grieves me more than all 
that has been burned." I did not hear the men make any reply ; they 
did not stop, but kept on. 

Q. Did )ou see anj' person giving the things away? 

A. No, sir ; I saw no person in the store in citizen's clothes. Alder- 
man Jenks stood on the steps and spoke to the men inside. I think I 
could identify some of the men, — one "S. L. W." perhaps; but men 
change in appearance at such a time. 

Q. Did you see any other instances of the kind? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. When did you first see or know of the fire? 

A. I saw the fire at ten minutes past seven, at Charlestown, at the 
lower end of Austin street, at Prison Point Bridge, on the Eastern Rail- 
road. It was very small, hardly perceptible. I looked at the clock in 
the depot and noticed the time. Wm. H. Brown was with me. His rec- 
ollection is the same as mine. I was on duty in Charlestown till one 
A. M. I found a stream of people on the bridge with goods from the fire. 
I took them to the station, and kept at this until three o'clock, when 
other officers came. A great many goods were thrown overboard from 
the bridge. Some of the persons we discharged, and others we kept. I 
took froui them furs and other goods ; many of the articles were identi- 
fied and taken away. A Boston officer was on Milk street, and saw part 
of the stealing to which I have referred. A gentleman said he should 
hold him responsible, but he was not to blame ; he was powerless. The 
police could do nothing with the crowd. 



584 



WM. H. BROWN, sivorn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Are you a police officer of Charlestown? 

A. I am. 

Q. At what time did you see the fire on the night of November 9th? 

A. At ten minutes past seven, P. M. ; I looked at the clock imme- 
diately after seeing it. This was the clock of the Eastern Railroad de- 
pot, at Prison Point Bridge. When I looked, it was about two minutes 
after first seeing the fire. It was then ten minutes past seven, exactly. 
We were then helping get a vessel through the draw in time for the 
ten minutes past seven train. I said to Officer Sargent, " There is a fire 
in Boston ! " We could see quite a light, so that any one would notice it. 

CHARLES R. MORSE, sioorn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) What is your business? 

A. I am U. S. truckman, at the Custom House. 

Q. On November 9, how many horses were you using? 

A. We were using all our horses, twenty-one. in number. We had 
lost five. They had all been sick. 

Q. Was there any difficulty in getting horses at that time in Boston? 

A. No, sir. As early as the 30th of October, horses could be had. I 
rode in the torchlight procession on that night ; so did a hundred others, 
although there was no general cavalcade. By the 9th, horses could be 
had in any number. 

Adjourned. 



685 



TWENTIETH DAY. 

Friday, December 27. 

SAMUEL MAY, Jr., sworn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russeli,.) At what time did you go to the store of May 
& Co., on the night of the fire? 

A. It was almost quarter before ten Saturday night. 

Q. Who was there besides you ? 

A. I saw only one there then. Afterwards, my partners, Mr. Holder, 
and Mr. Stoddard, came. 

Q. At what time did the danger become imminent there? 

A. The fire on the further side of Oliver street took in the rear, I 
should say, about six o'clock on Sunday morning, or a little after. 

Q. What did you do to protect the building? 

A. Early in "the evening I filled all the tubs, buckets, etc., I could 
find, with water, and had them carried up stairs, so as to wet the roof if 
there was any danger of sparks coming there. Afterwards, I got a bale 
of cotton waste and saturated that with water, and we used that as swabs 
to brush the sides of the windows as they caught fire. The building 
caught first in the upper story. 

Q. What time was that? 

A. Tl\at was, I should think, about seven o'clock Sunday morning. 

Q. Did it take fire first on the wood-work of the windovys in the upper 
story ? 

A. The wood-work of the windows first. 

Q. How did you put it out? 

A. By thrashing it with a handful of wet waste. That was done at 
the suggestion of Mr. Frederick May, who had seen it done at fires be- 
fore. In that stores we had crucibles which were packed in straw. The 
straw caught fire, and when the room was so filled with smoke that we 
were nearly suffocated, we had to give it up. We were then the only two 
persons in the building. The rest, after taking the books, had left two 
hours before, thinking there was no danger then, — that they were going 
to stop the fire in Pearl street. 

Q. How long did you continue to fight the fire? 

A. I should think an hour, perhaps. After we had given up the 
building and were coming out of the rear exit, I discovered a hose-com- 
pany coming up the court leading from Sturgis street, and I got them to 
come into the building. In the first place, they insisted upon playing 
from the second or third story from the street, on to the buildings oppo- 
site. I told them it was no use to do that, as we were on fire above, but 
they might save our building, and probably stop the fire, as I knew that 
Briggs & Robinson's store had an immense amount of inflammable 



586 

stuff in it, and so, after a while, Ihey sent down and got an extra length 
of hose and attached it, and carried a line into the upper story. 

Q. What company was that? 

A. That was No. 7 hose. 

Q. Did tliey play from a steamer? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Was tiiere any other fire apparatus throwing streams on j^our 
buildins: that you Ivnow of? 

A. Yes, sir. There were two steamers in front of the building ; one of 
them was a Lynn engine, the other I don't know. I went out several 
times to get them to move further down the street to get a more direct 
stream on the building, but they seemed to have tlie insane idea of play- 
ing on the buildings on the other side of the street, which were pretty 
thoroughly gutted at that time. Then there was a line of hose on the 
roof, which Maj. Chadwick got through his store, which was next to 
ours. 

Q. Is there anything further which 3^ou think of about the manner in 
which you fought the fire? 

A. I should think the hose company were in the store perhaps three- 
quarters of an hour, and then they took their hose out. I don't know 
why. I never could ascertain why they did it, because the danger was 
not over then, but they insisted on going, and we couldn't keep them any 
longer. Then we put sheet-iron and copper up at the windows. The 
majority of the frames had been pushed out into the street, and we 
put up sheet-iron and copper. 

Q. You and your uncle? 

A. By that time we had assistance. 

Q. Where did you put up the sheets of metal? 

A. I think the sheets of copper were on the street floor, and the story 
above, nailed up against the windows. A great many of our clerks live 
out of town, and those who live in town had gone out to pass Sunday, 
so that we did not have so full a force at the store as we should on any 
ordinary evening. 

Q, Did you supply any of the steamers with fuel that night? 

A. I think we did not, but the Lynn engine, which was standing in 
Oliver street, was repeatedly out of fuel. 

Q. So as to lose steam ? 

A. Yes, sir. It stopped several times. It would play for perhaps ten 
minutes, and then stop. 

Q. How was it supplied? With what sort of fuel? 

A. Shoe cases, mainly ; and I saw the same thing down in Pearl 
street. 

Q. At an earlier hour? 

A. Yes, sir. I was travelling back and forwards from the store to the 
scene of the fire, speculating on the chances of its coming on. My part- 
ners, Mr. Holder and Mr. Stoddard had left. Mr. Stoddard took the 
books and went off, and Mr. Holder went off oh other business, both 
convinced that the fire was going to be stopped at Pearl street. 

Q. Is there any other fact that occurs to you which 3'ou think we ought 
to know ? 

A. No, I think of nothing else. I dou't suppose my testimony is very 



587 

important, but I certainly think if our store had gone, the fire wonld 
have gone to the water's edge. I don't think anything could have stopped 
it if it had got into this oil liouse. 

Q. (By Mr. C<jbb,) Did 3'ou see the Chief Engineer at your store? 

A. No. sir. 

Q. Did yon see any Engineer? 

A. I think the foreman of the hose company was the only oflBcerl saw 
to speak with. 

LEONARD R. CUTTER, sioorn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Are you an alderman of the city? 

A. Yes, sir. ^ 

Q. At what time did you go to the City Hall on the night of the fire? 

A. I didn't look at tlie time, but I should judge it was half-past eleven, 
or between that and twelve. 

Q. Was the Mayor there? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Did you have any conversation with the Mayor about the fire, and 
the plans for subduing it? 

A. I passed up and went into the Ma3'or's office and spoke to hira. I 
asked him if he knew how extensive the fire was. He was talking, I 
think, witli Alderman Jenks. He said it was a very large fire. I said 
to him, " I suppose we can see it from the top of the building ; " and I 
went immediately up to the top of City Hall, and was there half an 
hour, I think, looking at it. I thought then it would stop in Franklin 
street ; but when it came across Franklin street, I went down and saw 
the Mayor, and told him I thought the City Hall would be in danger, 
and that we ouglit to have some more policemen there ; that we ought 
to have them sunnnonedto the Central Office. Mr. Damrell came in, and 
some citizens, Mr. Burt, Mr. Allen, and a few others, and had a sort of 
consultation. Mr. Burt said that water was insufficient ; that they ought 
to resort to some other remedy, and recommended some other remedy. 
I think the remed}'^ was in blowing up buildings. Mr. Damrell didn't 
approve of it, but the pressure seemed to be so strong from the citizens 
to have something resorted to different from water, that he yielded. 
The question then was, who could take charge of the powder? I think 
Mr. Burt inquired if there were any aldermen prt'sent, saying that he 
thought it would be proper to give each alderman a street to take charge 
of. 1 think Alderman Jenks took Milk street. The question was asked 
me what street I would take, and I remarked that I didn't think I was a 
proper person to take charge of powder ; that I had had no experience, 
and might do more damage with it than good. I thought I could be 
more useful in aiding the Mayor around the City Hall. Mr. Damrell 
remarked to me that he thought I could aid him, if I would get some 
policemen for him, and I started for the Chief, and found him in Sta- 
tion 2. I requested him to summon all the officers he could to the Cen- 
tral Office. I then went up and had some conversation with the Ma^^or 
about the force being sufficient to control the thieves who would prob- 
ably be stealing goods. I told hira I knew where Gen. Cunningham 
was, and if he thought best, we would call out the militia ; and he asked 



588 

me if I wouldn't go at once, and have Gen. Cunningham come to his 
office. I immediately went np to where Gen. Cunningham lived (he is a 
tenant of mine), and called him out, and told him the Mayor desired to 
see him forthwith at the City Hall. He was down there in about twen- 
ty minutes. Then the Mayor gave him directions to call out the militia. 
Then Mr. Nutter came in. He thought the Eegistry of Deeds ought to 
be cared for ; that we ought to be |)repared to take care of the books of 
the Registry of Deeds, and the Registry of Probate. I thought also that 
we ought to have the different superintendents there in the City Hall, 
and I sent a messenger for Mr. Tracy, and the janitor of the Registry 
of Deeds office, and for Mr. McCleary, and the different heads of de- 
partments. I dispatched messengers to them to have them report at 
City Hall foi'thwith ; and also to Mr. Forristall, to have some teams in 
the square that we could use. The question Avas raised, what we should 
do with our books and records. Some thought we must carry them over 
to East Boston, and some thought they ought to be carried to Cambridge. 
I told them I had a place where they would all agree they would be safe, 
and that was under the reservoir. . They all agreed with me, and it was 
arranged that the records of the City Hall, the Registry of Deeds, and 
the Registry of Probate, should be carted to the reservoir. Tlie only 
question was when we should commence. 1 sent word to have them get 
their teams read^', and also for the key of the reservoir. After getting 
everything ready, I went to the top of City Hall, I thought we had 
better not move anj'thing until the fire crossed Washington street, and 
then we had better go to work. We watched the fire, and saw that it 
didn't cross Washington street, and therefore we didn't move. Some 
of the heads of departments moved a few things down to the lower part 
of Cit}' Hall. After I felt assured that the fire would not cross Wash- 
ington street, I went out to see the fire ; and as I went down by the Old 
South, I noticed that the firemen, or men with firemen's caps and badges 
on, were breaking into stores promiscuousl3% I saw two or three stores 
broken into — a ribbon shop, and a cigar shop. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) Were those stores on fire? 

A. No, but the fire was coming towards them. It looked as if they 
would burn, and I believe they did burn afterwards. The firemen would 
load themselves up with boxes of goods and cixvvy them ofl^". I saw Mr. 
Chambei'lain, who had an Engineer's cap on, and said to him, "You 
ought to control your firemen. Tliey are loading themselves up with 
goods and carrying them home, and yon won't have any men to take 
care of your hose." He came np to me and said, in a low tone, the fire- 
men were out-of-town men and they couldn't control tiiem. I went to 
one of our policemen, and asked him if he couldn't control them, and he 
said he was powerless. I then went over to some policemen on tiie other 
side of the street, who said they were Charlestown police. I asked them 
if they couldn't take liold and help our policemen prevent these men from 
breaking into the stores. They said thej' were not under our jurisdic- 
tion. I asked the'm what they were in there for, and they said they 
were in there to look at the fire. I told them their place was outside 
the line, unless they would take hold and help us and do us some good. 
Then I went up to the City Hall, and saw the INIayor and Chief of 
Police, and told them that law and order were being trampled on, that 



589 

the firemen were breaking into the warehouses promiscuously and carrying 
off the goods in all directions, and we must have some police there or we 
should be in a state of chaos, we should have no law or order in the city. 
The Chief despatched some men with me, and we put a stop to the 
plundering by these fellows, who had firemen's hats on ; they went oflf, 
and I didn't see them afterwards. The way they broke into the stores 
was, three or four of them would go up against the door and keep bump- 
ing their back-sides against it, until they broke it in. After that, I took 
a turn clear round the fire to see how things were going on, and I found, 
away down on the lower side, that there was a strong current of air, and 
I thought there was an east wind blowing, but when I got round so that 
I could see the A'aue on the Old South, I saw that it pointed west, so 
that the wind was west all the time. There was a ver}^ severe wind at 
the lower part of Water and Milk streets. I passed through Broad 
street, through Milk street, and clear round the fire. I was down in 
that locality, it may have been an hour, and when I got round again to 
City Hall the fire had been stopped at the Old South corner, and seemed 
to be progressing towards the Post Office ; in fact, it had got in the rear 
part of it. I went on top of City Hall again, and after that I went home 
and got some breakfast, and came back again, and was attending to 
receiving the fire companies from out of town. Mr. Woolley, the chair- 
man of the Committee on the Fire Department, had gone home, and 
there was no one there, and when telegraphs were received they were 
handed to me, and I pi'ovided places for the companies. I located a 
couple of Manchester companies at the American House, and a couple 
of companies from Fall River at the United States Hotel. Some ques- 
tion was raised whether we needed them or not. It was thought by 
Mr. Damrell that we should not need them, and that we might discharge 
them and let them go home. The Chief Engineer of Fall River told me 
they had but four companies there, and two of them were here. I told 
him I didn't want to give him directions to send any of his companies 
home, because we might have a large fire, but if he thought his city 
needed the force more than we did, he might exercise his judgment and 
send them home. I believe he afterwards did. I told Mr. Damrell we 
bad better keep all the force we could, for if we had a fire that night, and 
it got the best of us, a great deal of fault would be found with us. It 
turned out that there was a fire at the head of Summer street, from the 
explosion of gas, at which I was not present. I stayed at the City Hall 
until about two o'clock, and having been up all the night before, I told 
Mr. Powers I would leave my duties to him, and go home and get some 
sleep. I didn't come down again until the next da}'. I believe that is 
about all I did, or the larger portion of it. 

Q. (B}^ Mr. PiiiLBKiCK.) Are you on the "Water Board? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Are you also a member of the Committee on the Fire Department? 

A. Yes, sir, 

Q. Have you heard anything about the scarcity of water for fire pur- 
poses since you have been on the committee from the Chief Engineer? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. How long have you been on the committee? 



590 

A. This is my seconrl year on the Water Board, my first year on the 
Fire Department Committee, 

Q. Have you ever heard the question discussed as to a further supply 
of water for fire purposes? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. Have you ever been aware of any lack of water? 

A. No, sir, I have heard of it since the fire. I am speaking now of 
up to tlie time of the fire. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) Neither the Chief Engineer nor any of the Fire 
Department, so far as you know, have ever made any request of the City 
Council to furnish an}' additional supply of water for fire uses? 

A. No, sir, not to my knowledge. 

Q. (By l\Ir. Philbrick.) Do you know anything about the actual 
supply in Boston, as compared with other cities, for fire purposes? 

A. I have not visited other cities, and don't know. Since the fire, I 
have inquired in the Fire Department Committee whose duty it was to 
protect the water. It seems that when they put their engines on a reser- 
voir or on a hydrant, if they were driven away, nobody tnrned it off. 
They left a number of hydrants and reservoirs running, wliich our Super- 
intendent, Mr. Jones, said would amount to tliirty-six hydrants, I un- 
derstand that they found these running the day after the fire, I thought 
that it belonged to the men who turned on the water to turn it off". For 
instance, in these reservoirs there is a four-inch pipe, and they turn this 
four-inch pipe on to supply the reservoir, and that supplies two or three 
engines, I thought that the man who turned that four-inch pipe on 
should turn it off, if the fire drove the engine away ; that he should see 
to it ten or fifteen minutes before he was obliged to leave, and shut off 
this water, because if the fire had continued to extend, I don't see how 
they would have got any water, if they let these reservoirs and hydrants 
flow full force. For instance, each building that burned would burn off 
a pipe, and there would be, of course, water wasted inside. I under- 
stand that when the fire was about checked, there was about twenty 
pounds' pressure, which I thought was rather a large pressure after the 
pipes had been tapped so many times as they were. 

Q. At what point was that observed? 

A. That was observed in the vicinity of the Post Office in State street. 

Q. "What means have they of gauging the pressure tliere? 

A. That was told me, I think, by some member of the Fire Depart- 
ment, but it ma}' liave come from the Superintendent of the Water Works. 
It seems to me, that in a case like that, some provision should be made 
for shutting off the water, because, if the fire had crossed State street, 
and they had left the hydrants and reservoirs flowing, we should not 
have got any water at all, and should have been entirely powerless to 
put out the fire. It seems their rule is to carry these turning-off ma- 
chines for the reservoirs on their Hook-and-Ladder Companies, The 
engines don't have them, but they have a machine to turn on the hy- 
drants, A reservoir has a four-inch pipe, and a hydrant has either a two- 
inch or two-and-a-half-inch pipe, and they say that they can't unscrew 
the hose until they first turn off the water, because the water will flow 
all over them, but if the pressure is almost gone, I don't see any reason 
why they cannot. There is no rule, as I understand it, about turning 



591 

the water off ; it is not incumbent upon anybody, so far as I can find 
out. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) Has this subject ever been brought before the 
Committee on the Fire Department? 

A. Yes, I brought it up. 

Q. Was any action taken upon it? 

A. No, sir. Tlie Chief Engineer is very sensitive if any fault is found 
with his department. He seemed to want to throw it on the Water 
Board. I told him I di(hi't care who it was, whether an agent of the 
Water Board, or an agent of the Fire Department, but certainly some- 
body should have the agency and should see to it. It is a very impor- 
tant item, because, if we lose our water, of course the fire will go over 
the whole city. If we do not keep our ammunition, I don't see how we can 
fight the enemy. The Engineers seem to think that the pipes are not 
large enough in the streets, but if you make the pipes ever so large, if 
you let all your force go, I don't see how you are going to get any more 
water. It is astonishing to me that they did not lose it all on the night 
of the fire. If they had shut otf all these pipes at the reservoirs and the 
hydrants, I don't see but what they would have kept up their pressure, 
with the exception of what would have been lost by the waste of water 
in cellars from the burning off of the pipes in the houses ; but if the pipes 
in the houses were burned off, and you let the h^ydiants and reservoirs 
run, you lose all the force of your water, no matter how large your pipes 
are. 

Q. Since j'ou have been on the committee, has the Chief ever called 
the attention of your committee to the lack of water suppl}^ in that dis- 
trict? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. Or in any district in Boston ? 

A. Not to my knowledge. The Fire Department say that the fire 
came on them so suddenly that they had to leave their hose, and they 
couldn't get at it after the building tumbled down ; of course, that can't 
be helped. 

Q. (By Mr. Eussell.) Is there any provision for going to fires now 
on runners? 

A. I don't know of any. I thought this morning when I was coming 
down that I would go up into the Fire Committee and ask that question, 
and if we had not got any shoes to put on the engines, we should get 
them immediately. I think our Fire Department was well equipped for 
this fire. I had an idea, when I went into the Fire Department Commit- 
tee, that it was an extravagant department, that it spent a good <ieal of 
money, and I thought if that was the course pursued in that department, 
the best way was to spend the money for a valuable consideration, and 
therefore I favored an additional supply of hose in the houses. My idea 
was to get an equivalent for the money we paid, and I also favored the 
purchase of two additional engines, and at our annual parade, I guess 
we showed more strength and had more hose in our houses than any 
year heretofore. That was ray idea, to get an equivalent for this sum, 
$600,000, that it costs to run tlie Fire Department, because if we had it 
in our engines and hose, we had something to show for it, but if we ex- 



i 

592 ^ 

pended it in junketing and ti-avelling nround the countiy, we had nothing 
to show for it. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) Have you ever heard anj'thing about any 
request from the Chief P^ngineer for the location of apparatus in that 
part of the city which was burned, or near there? 

A. I thinic 1 liave. I have heard him say that there should be some 
engine stationed in the vicinity of Franklin street. That was last yenv, 
when we located tlie engine up here in Bultinch street. I have not heard 
him say anytliing about it tliis year. He has stated to me, since the fire, 
that the city ought to look out and get some land down there to locate 
an engine house. 

Q. Have your committee ever taken it into consideration ? 

A. They have not, as yet. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) Don't you think it is desirable to do it at an 
ear 13^ day ? 

A. Yes, sir. I think we should do it right off, while we can get some 
land before they build upon it. 

Adjourned to Thursday, January 2, 1873. 



593 



TWENTY-FIRST DAY. 

Thursday, January 2. 
JOHN QUINN, sivorn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Did you own any buildings in Pearl place? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Will you tell us anj'thing that took place on the night of the fire, 
in regard to your property, which you think we ought to know? 

A. There was a large building at tlie corner of Pearl place and Pearl 
street that was burned on Sunday morning and fell in. Between noy 
building and this Pearl-street building, there was a fifteen-foot passage- 
way. There was a building on Sturgis street about ninety feet to the 
rear of my building, and that burned and fell in. There was a hose 
there in Sturgis street, and I asked the Captain if he wouldn't come into 
Pearl place and save ni}'^ block. He said he would, for he could not do 
an^'thing for anybody else ; and he came in there, and stopped about two 
hours at my block ; but about half-past five o'clock in tlie morning, Mr. 
Damrell came up and said : " Take that hose back." I could see him 
bj' daylight, and I judge it was half-past five o'clock. Then the Captain 
of the liose says : " Mr. Damrell, if you will allow me to remain here, I 
will save this block." Says he : " You do as I tell you." Then I went 
up and said : " I have had fifteen of my men here, helping these firemen 
save my building, and it is too bad to let it burn up wlien you can save 
it, when there are a hundred families homeless this morning." He says : 
" If you don't shut up your mouth, I will fix you d — d quick." That is 
all I can say about the affair. Afterwards, a neighbor of mine went up 
and influenced him to come down out of Milk street',, and take the hose 
oflT of my buildings to cool down the buildings on Oliver street that were 
not on fire, 

Q. (By Mr. Philbriok.) Did j^our building finall}-^ burn? 

A. Yes, sir. After Mr. Damrell took the hose oft', the building caught 
fire in one of the blinds next to Pearl street, and it took from that time 
in the morning until one o'clock before the eight buildings were burned. 
You may judge from that how much fire there was in the building when 
Mr. Damrell left. The last building fell then on the corner of Oliver 
street and Pearl place. 

Q. What number was your block? 

A. 7 and 8. The next house was Mr. Cronan's. 

Q. How many families were there in your two houses? 

A. In the house we occupied. No. 7, there were two other families be- 
sides my own ; in No. 8 there were four families. 

Q. (By Mr. Eussell.) When Mr. Damrell said if you did not shut up 
your mouth he would fix 3'ou d — d quick, did he take the whole of the 
hose awaj^ ? 

A. Yes, sir ; be took the whole of it away. 
38 



594 



Q. I understood 3'ou to say, that afterwards a neighbor went to him, 
and got him to move some of the hose to cool down some buildings on 
Oliver street? 

A. I understood that Mr. Damrell came right down, and took the hose 
away. 

Q. You mean, then, that your neighbor went up and saw Captain 
Damrell before he came down? 

A. Yes, sir ; he went up to the fire on Milk street, where he was, and 
took him down with him. 

Q. Who is your neighbor? 

A. I can't tell his name, but I can find him. A man told of it the 
next day, in the horse-cars, to let me know how smart he was in getting 
the hose away from us. I think he is connected with Chase's lozenge 
store and the Boston Lead Works. It was a neighbor of mine who owns 
property above me, who heard him make the boast of it the next day ; 
and that is why we got so dissatisfied with it. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) Did you at the time think that Capt. Damrell was 
doing you wrong ? 

A. Yes, sir ; he was doing me wrong, because the Captain of his own 
hose told him, " Mr. Damrell, if 3'ou will allow me to remain, I can saA'e 
the building." And after that the fire got into the building through the 
front blinds next Pearl street. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Can you tell who this man was who went to 
Capt. Damrell, and got him to come down there? 

A. The man's name is Cushing. 

Q. What is his first name? 

A. I cannot say. 

Q. Where does he live? 

A. I can't tell 3'ou that, but I can find out all the particulars. 

Q. Do you know what hose company it was? 

A. It was Hose 5, of Salem. Capt. Pickering was the man who 
spoke to Mr. Damrell on the street, and told him, " I can save the 
block, if you will allow me to remain." 

Q. Was there any other hose company there? 

A. No, sir ; none but Hose G, of Salem. I had fifteen men of mj' own, 
besides Capt. Pickering's men. They got pretty well tired out, and we 
took the hose to let his men rest, and put the hose where he directed us. 

Q. What is your business? 

A. Stevedore business. 

Q. Were the men you had there, the men whom you employ in your 
business? 

A. Yes, sir. We took water in buckets and wet all our sheds down. 
We w^ere ninety feet from the building on Sturgis street that was 
burned. That building burned down and caved in, and so did the build- 
ing on Pearl street. I don't think Mr. Damrell could have saved the 
buildings on the opposite side of the street, for those were connected with 
stores, but ours wasn't. There was a fifteen foot passage-way between 
them. Capt. Pickering made the attempt to save the buildings on the 
opi)Osite side, but he told the people : " I can't do anything more for 
you people ; the best thing you can do will be to look out for yourselves. 



595 

The best I can do is to save this block on the other side." That was our 
side. 

Q. Had 3'ou ever seen Capt. Pickering before? 

A. No, sir ; not until that morning, when he came to our assistance, 
when he could not do anj'thing more on Pearl street. 

Q. (By Mr. Fikth.) Do 3'ou know that this man who said he would 
fix j'ou, was Capt. Dararell? 

A. Yes, sir, I know him. I did not know what he meant when he 
said he would fix me, unless he meant he would kill me. He said : " Who 
is running tins fire, 3'ou or me? " I said : " The fire is running itself." 
All I was sorr}' for was that he did not keep away from our part. After 
I found I could not get any satisfaction, I used words that were not 
proper for me to use to any man, but after I had worked there all night 
with my men it would make any man mad. 



JAMES R. KENDRICK, sioorn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Are you the Superintendent of the Old Col- 
ony Railroad? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. What time on Saturday night, Nov. 9, if at any time, did you re- 
ceive any message from Mr. Damrell, about giving engines the road? 

A. I did not receive any message from Mr. Damrell at all. 

Q. Did you receive au}^ message from an^^ one ? 

A. Not during Saturda}^ night. 

Q. When did 3'ou? 

A. My clerk received a message about noon on Sundaj'-, I think, from 
Fall River, asking permission to come through with fire euo-iues. 

Q. What did he reply? 

A. He gave the riglit of the road to come as soon as he could commu- 
nicate through. The wires from our depot to the main office where the 
battery was were burned off, and no communication could be had except 
by the way of New York, I think. 

Q. Was it not by the way of Providence? 

A. I am not clear about tliat, but the impression I had was that they 
said at the Providence depot that ihey would have to send it by the way 
of New York to get to Fall River. 

Q. AYas that the first and onl}' message you had? 

A. That was the first message we had, and then we had others asking 
for the same permission from Newport ; but at that time, there was no ne° 
cessity, as I understood, for any more engines. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) As I understand you, the requests came from 
the outside towns ? 

A. Yes, sir ; they came from the extreme ends of the road. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Asking to come in? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Y^ou had no request from any one in Boston to give them the road? 

A. No, sir. 



596 



E. F. OLIVER, siuorn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Are you the Treasurer of the Lynn and Bos- 
ton Horse Railroad ? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Just before the time of the great fire, Nov. 9th, were horses to be 
had in this neighborliood? 

A. Well, our difficulty was that we were unable to run our road the 
full number of trips in consequence of the sickness which we experienced 
with our horses. 

Q. Could you get other horses to take their places? 

A. We didn't make any effort ; we didn't try, for the reason that we 
were not buying them. The horses were generally sick. 

Q. Do you know whether you could have bought them or not? 

A. I can't state from actual investigation, because I did not make the 
effort. We had a full complement, but a great many were sick ; other- 
wise we should have gone into the market and attempted to purchase, as 
we wished to increase our number just then, but on account of the sick- 
ness, we were prevented from doing so. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) Can you tell me what proportion of the 
horses were on duty on the day of the fire, the 9th of November? 

A. I should suppose, without making any careful estimate, that perhaps 
two-thirds of our horses were at work, but in double teams ; that is to 
say, we ran four where we usually run two, and run a much less number 
of trips ; but still, not all the horses. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) Were they convalescent? 

A They were getting better fast, because we had suspended opera- 
tions altogether, and had resumed them, 

Q. You had passed the worst point? 

A. Y'es, sir. 

WILLIAM HENDRY, sivorn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Are you connected with the Metropolitan 
Railroad ? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. In what position? 

A. Superintendent. 

Q. On the 9th of November, and just before then, were you using your 
full number of horses on the road? 

A. No, sir ; I was running one hundred and sixteen cars ; some of 
them with two horses, and some with four. 

Q. How many were you using? 

A. I can't tell you exactly, but probably about one thousand or eleven 
hundred. 

Q. How large a proportion was that of j'our whole stock? 

A. We had over thirteen hundred horses. 

Q. Were horses to be had in this market at that time? 

A. I don't know ; we were not buying any at that time? 



597 

Q. "Were j'ou hiring tliem? 

A. No, sir ; we used our own horses. 

Q. Have you any means of telling whether there were horses to be 
had at that time? Suppose you had wanted one hundred horses^ could 
you have got them, or don't you know? 

A. I don't know. I have no doubt I could have bought one hundred 
horses in two days, if I had wanted to, but I wasn't in the market 
buying. 

Q. (By Mr. Greene.) You say you think j^ou could have bought 
one hundred horses in two days ; do you think you could have bought 
one hundred well ones? 

A. 1 don't think I could, sir. It was hard telling whether horses 
were well or not. We worked most of our horses more or less. 

Q. {Jiy Mr. Firth.) If you were using on that day, or on any 
special day, two horses on your cars, and doing your regular work with 
your regular force, what would be your inference? 

A. I should consider the horses well. When a horse will eat, he is 
able to work, the same as a man or woman is. If he can't eat, we don't 
work him. 

Q. But in regard to the work on any particular day, if you did your 
regular work with 3'Our horses, what would be your conclusion? 

A. I should consider them nearly or quite well ; we don't work them 
unless we consider them well. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) Were the horses convalescent then? 

A. Yes, sir, some of them. We had some horses that were not sick 
at all, but most of them had been more or less affected. 

Q. Were they getting better at that time? 

A. Yes, sir, they were getting better ; some of them were well, and 
some of them were sick. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) Do you mean, when you say that j^ou could 
have bought one hundred horses, that you could have bought that num- 
ber who would work? 

A. I should think I might have bought horses at that time that would 
work, but I am not quite sure ; I would not swear that I could, because 
I was not in the market, but I have no doubt there were horses here that 
could have been bought. 



GEORGE H. VINCENT, siuorn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Are you connected with the Metropolitan 
Railroad ? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Will you mention any fact you think we ought to know in relation 
to the fire on the 9th of November? 

A. I will state that we were so well satisfied, on the night of the fire, 
that our horses would be called for and used, that on the Dorchester 
avenue line, a team of four horses for each of the two engines out in that 
vicinity was picked out by the Assistant Superintendent, and drivers 
detailed to drive them in case the engines stopped for them when they 
went by there. 

Q. Were they used ? 

A. No, sir, they were not called for. 



598 



JOHN HENRY STUDLEY, sworn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Ave you connected with any liorse-railroad? 

A. Yes, sir; I am Superintendent of the Middlesex Horse-Raih'oad. 

Q. On November 9th, how many horses were you using on thnt road? 

A. The number of trips run on November 9th was one hundi-ed and 
thirty in place of three hundred and sixty-flve trips on our regular time- 
table. The trips were made with four horses attached to eacli car, and 
they were driven and used moderately. About fifty horses out of three 
hundred were not fit to be used on that day. 

Q. Were the horses well, or nearly well, or what was their condition? 

A. I think they were improving very fast. 

Q. Had they all been sick? 

A. Pretty much. 

Q. Do you know whether horses were to be had then in the market? 

A. I presume they were. 

Q. Did you try to get any? 

A. No, sir. I didn't hardly feel like buying just then. 

HENRY L. HIGGINSON, sworn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) At what time did you reach the fire on the 
night of Nov. 9th ? 

A. Between half-past seven and a quarter of eight ; I don't know 
exactly. 

Q. Will j^ou tell us anything which you saw which you think we ought 
to know ? 

A. The fire was in the corner store when I got there ; it had not 
crossed Summer street. As far as I could see, there was no water from 
the top of Gray's building thrown down. It seemed to me at that time, 
that if they could wet the gutter and windows, and keep them wet, tlie 
fire would never cross Summer street, and I should say so now. The 
engine at the corner of Arch street and Summer street was whistling for 
coal before I had been there many minutes, and kept whistling for a 
considerable time. 

Q. Was it working all the time or not? 

A. I don't know, I am sure ; I know it was part of the time, I don't 
know that it was all the time. Steamers arrived and kept arriving after 
I got there for an hour, I should suppose. After I hail been there an 
hour, perhaps, I went round through Ilawley street to Winthrop square, 
and through Winthrop place, and came down past where the church used 
to be, and went up very near the fire, and then I went round through 
Bedford street, and I didn't think the firemen were doing much. 

Q. Do you mean over the whole route? 

A. Well, they were working, but there were a good many who 
were not doing much. I know I made the remark to my couipanion : 
" It seems to me if there was anybody here to guide things these men 
would have something moi'e to do ; I shoidd thiuk they might find more." 
Thai was the gist of it. I went round through I3edford street into 
Kingston street a little waj", and saw that the firemen were throwing 



599 

■water from the steps and from the attics of some of these dwelling- 
houses in Kingston street, on the western side, and they were doing 
more, apparently, to put out the fire than any other men I saw ; they 
were accomplishing more. 

Q. How were they playing in the other portions of the district? 

^i. Throwing water up against the buildings from the street ; against 
the house where Mr. John C. Gray used to live. 

Q. With what effect? 

A. It didn't seem to do any good at all. 

Q. Did you see any hose carried on the roofs near Otis street? 

A. No, sir, I did not ; but then tliere miglit well have been at about 
that time, or later, hose carried up in Otis street and I not have seen it. 
I don't mean to convey the idea that the firemen were doing nothing, 
but there were a good many idle men, and they were not doing appar- 
ently as much as they might, and nobody seemed to guide anything. 
About eleven o'clock, I went down into Purchase street to the corner of 
what used to be Atkinson street ; it is Congress street, I suppose now. 
There was almost nothing doing there at all. 

Q. Was there any apparatus there ? 

A. There was an engine pretty near, but it was not producing any 
effect at all. The only firemen I saw were pulling tlie fence down in 
front of an old house which is standing now at the corner of Atkinson and 
Purchase streets. 

Q. When you were there, had the main fire reached there, or was it 
fire caused by sparks and brands? 

A. The fire was in full blast and coming very near there ; the stores 
were going. I was at the corner of Franklin street and Federal street, 
very nearlo Channing street, about the same hour, or a little earlier, 
and there was but one engine there. That seemed to be all there was 
for that place. They were working well enough, but they were not 
accomplishing anything in the world, 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) How were they throwing their water? 

A. Well enough, right on to the fire. It was well enough directed, 
and well enough thrown. There was energy enough about it, l)ut there 
were not half enough men, and they were accomplishing absolutely 
nothing. 

Q. (By Mr. PniLBRiCK.) Do you think there was a lack of apparatus 

there ? 

A. Yes, sir. That was about eleven or twelve o'clock, I think. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) Did you see the Chief during the evening? 

A, I never saw the Chief "until eleven o'clock Sunday morning. 

Q. Did you hear any order as coming from the Chief during the night 
at the different points you visited ? 

A. No, sir ; but then there might have been such orders, and I not 
have known of them. A good deal of my time was spent between State 
street, where our office is, and on Devonshire street, about the Post 
Office, and I went up to the City Hall three or four times, I suppose, to 
see what they were doing there. I couldn't find out that they were try- 
ing to do much of anything. There were orders given to blow up build- 
ings, but I couldn't learn that anybody in particular had it in charge 
except Mr. Burt. There were a dozen gentlemen, the Mayor said, who 



600 

were ordered to blow up, but Mr, Burt was the only man named to me. 
I was told to go down to him, and call his attention to the fact that the 
buildings should be blown up from Wnshiugton street down to the water. 
That was my own suggestion, and the Mayor desired me to go and find 
Mr. Burt, and call his attention to the question whether it was not worth 
while to do it. That was when the fire was coming towards Milk street 
pretty fast, 

Q. Did the Mayor tell you how Gen. Burt received his authority? 

A. No ; he did not say an34hing about that, except he said he had told 
him to do it. 

Q. Did you find Gen. Burt? 

A. No, sir. I looked for him all night, and didn't see him until eleven 
o'clock the next day. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) Did you see an}'^ gunpowder used? 

A. I did, considerable. 

Q, Where did you see it used first? 

A. The first place was just back of the Post 'Office, on Congress street. 
It tumbled an old wooden building down on Water and Congress streets, 
just below the Post Office. That fell in, and of course it burned up, but 
it wasn't blown up until the fire reached it. 

Q. AVhat was the next building? 

A. The next building was the old granite block in Congress street, 
where the "Evening Gazette" office was. Mr. Atkinson and Gen. 
Benham came down there, and the powder was put in, and that was 
blown up. 

Q. Who superintended that? 

A. Gen. Benham gave the directions. 

Q. Did you hear him give any orders ? 

A. I heard him give these orders, — he gave them to me afterwards — 
about blowing up buildings. He said : " Every time you put your pow- 
der in. shoA^e it down, put some heavy weights upon it, get it under an 
arch, if you can, anxl get your train all ready, but don't blow it up 
until the building catches fire. When the building catches fire, blow it 
up." 

Q. Did he tell you what quantity of powder to use ? 

A. He did, sir ; but my memory doesn't serve me as to the quantity. 
I should think it was about four hundred pounds. Mr. Atkinson came 
down with Gen. Benham, and Mr. Carpenter, who was down there, said 
Gen. Benham had been directed by the Mayor to do this tiling. Gen. 
Benham seemed to be rather afraid of his autliorit3% and Mr. Atkinson 
said he would stand by him in the matter. Then Gen. Benham gave 
those directions, and tliey were carried out by some men under Mr. Car- 
penter. Tlien powder was put down in Kilby street, in the building next 
to the express oflices there, at the corner of Water street, and powder 
was put in the Revere Copper Company's cellar. But those directions of 
Gen. Benham struck mo very decidedly. He repeated them several times, 
" Don't blow up the building until it catches fire." 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Did he say that to you more than once? 

A. He said that to me, and he gave those directions again and again. 
It seemed to me it only made it easier for the buildings to bum. I couldn't 
conceive what it meant. 



601 



Q. Do j'on know the length of the fuse, — how many minutes? 

A. No, I do not. There seemed to be no head about it. There was 
no organization. Tliere was nobody in particular to do anything. There 
was a man wlio undertook to put powder under the Revere Copper Com- 
pany's office, and he didn't want to mind what was told him. He was 
ugly about it. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) How did the powder work that was put under the 
Revere Copper Company's building? 

A. It didn't amount to ver}^ much. It was not well put in. I carried 
part of the powder down into the cellar myself. Then we were ordered 
out, and afterwards, powder was placed there again. It was not well 
placed, and the exi)losion didn't amount to much. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Do you know who ordered you out? 

A. I do not. Afterwards, it must have been eight o'clock. Gen. Ben- 
bam showed Mr. Atkinson and me a building in Kilbj^ street which was 
next to the corner, I think, or very near there, one of the old buildings, 
and said, '' That building must be mined ; and you, gentlemen, can go 
and get some powder, and either of you who gets there first, put it in." 
We asked where we could get the powder, but he didn't know. Mr. At- 
kinson got some somewhere and put it in. I went down on Central 
wharf, where I heard there was powder, and found a powder-boat there, 
and got a wagon, and forty twenty-five pound kegs were rolled out to me, 
and put into this wagon, and the man drove up the wharf with me, and 
up State street to the corner of Kilby street. This was a covered wagon, 
open behind and in front. It was a wicked thing to do, I suppose. The 
powder was taken out, and half of it was carried up into Congress street, 
and the other half put in Kilby and State streets. Just then. Gen. Ben- 
ham told me to mine the building in which Mr. Skillings had his office, 
the building this side of the Shoe and Leather Bank. He told me to put 
the powder in the cellar, and get my fuse ready and blow it up when the 
thing caught fire. I told Mr. Carpenter, who was still in Congress street, 
and who took part of the powder to use there, and he then said he didn't 
want it, and it was sent down, — one of the kegs open, covered, however, 
with a cloth, — and we went into that building, and just as we were putting 
the powder in there, Mr. AVooUey came to me and the other men, and 
told us we must not put it in there at all. I told Mr. Woolley by whose 
orders it was put there ; that it was by Gen. Benham's orders, and that 
Gen. Benham was instructed by the Mayor to attend to this thing. Mr. 
Woolley was as violent as he always is, I suppose, and said he would put 
me in jail if I didn't go away and mind m^' own business, and let the 
powder alone. He was very angry, and some of the firemen were very 
angry about it indeed. The consequence was, the powder was all taken 
and put into a store in State street and left there. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) What become of that building, — was it 
burned ? 

A. No, sir, it was not. The instruction was, as I said, not to blow it 
up unless it caught fire. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Where was that powder put? What became of 
it? 

A. It was put in No. 80 State street, and left in the entry there. It 
is the building where Mr. Groom is. The bringing of that powder up 



602 

State street struck me as a horrible thing to do, but there was nothing 
else to be done. I was told to do it, and I did it. "We drove by a 
couple of engines, and stopped about twenty feet from them, and took 
this powder out. 

Q. Who superintended putting the powder in the Kevere Copper 
Company's premises? 

A. The work was begun under Gen. Benham's directions, but after- 
wards I think a man by the name of Hathaway had it in charge, one 
of the men in the Fire Department, who acted under Mr. Carpenter's 
directions. 

Tiiere is one thing more about powder which I omitted to state. I 
bothered the Ma3'or almost to death, I suppose, that night. The last 
time I was there, it was about sunrise. I begged him to cut this path 
by blowing from Washington street to the Post Office, and then down to 
the water. We were right about the other side, but we were wrong as 
to this side. Then I went again when the Simmons building had 
burned, and I asked him to cut a path from Devonshire street to Con- 
gress street. I told him the buildings would be burned. He said he 
thought the fire would be stopped there, but I might go to Congress 
street, if I pleased, and represent the matter to Mr. Burt, if he was 
there, or to anybody else in charge, and call their attention to the fact 
that the buildings there had better be blown up to stop the thing. I 
went to Mr. Carpenter and told him what the Ma3'or said. He replied, 
" I will blow them up if the Mayor says so, but I think we can stop the 
fire here,'' which was what I had been hearing ever since eight o'clock 
the evening before. I didn't believe it, ami he didn't stop the fire there, 
of course. If he had then blown up the " Evening Gazette "■ building, 
which was blown up later, the fire would not have gone any further. A 
building in Lindall street was blown out, either by powder or whiskey, 
I never knew which. It was a wine shop, and it was blown right out 
into the street, more completely than in any other case. At that time, 
when I went down there. Water street was not burning below Congress 
street, and none of the block opposite the Post Office, between Lindall 
and Water streets, was burning at all. Men were continually walking 
around there. Theie were not many engines there then; afterwards, 
they came with greater force. 

Q. (By Mr, Cobb.) When you called upon the Mayor, did you hear 
him say anything about this matter of the use of gunpowder being in the 
hands of the Chief Engineer and his officers, rather than in the Mayor's? 

A. Either the first or second time he stated that, and later, about ten 
o'clock the next morning, he read us the law on the subject. 

Q. (By Mr. Fiuth.) To whom did he say the power belonged? 

A. The Chief Engineer. The Mayor went down State street about 
eleven o'clock. It seemed to be so desperate at that time that I was 
afraid the Exchange would all go, and I went up to the City Hall with 
Mr. Appleton and somebody else, — three or four of us went up and 
asked him to go down, and lie went down State street to Broad street, 
and looked at it, and then he got Gen. Beidiam and the Chief Engineer 
together, and having got them together, he went back to his office. They 
were to meet and decide whether they would l)low up the row where the 
Merchant's Exchange is. It looked as if it was absolutely essential. 



603 

The fire was then burning in behind there ; the Post Office was burning, 
and everything was burning up to the building of Mr. Gardner, right 
behind the Post Office. It looked as if the whole thing was gone, but 
the Chief Engineer said he had seen no good come from gunpowder, and 
finally refused to have the Boylston Bank building or the Columbian 
Bank building mined. He said he wouldn't have any powder put in 
there ; he would beat the fire off there. He said he could, and would, 
and he did. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) Did j^ou understand that the Mayor assumed any 
responsibility about the use of gunpowder in his official capacity ? 

A. I should say he did not assume any responsibility from the time 
the fire began until it was out. That is the way it looked to me. 

Q. I mean particularly in regard to gunpowder? 

A. I couldn't find that he exercised any responsibility in regard to 
that. We begged him, at ten o'clock, to give the order to have that row 
of buildings mined, and then he produced this law, and read it. He had 
told us of it before, and then he read it. 

Q. (By Mr. Eussell.) Was that row of which you speak from the 
Merchants' Exchange up? 

A. Yes, from Kilby street to Congress street. It looked as if they 
would have to take the whole thing down. It struck me, who knew 
nothing about fires, of course, in comparison with firemen, that blowing 
buildings down did a great deal, for the moment they were flat, they 
were much more easil}' handled. But the uselessness of throwing water 
against a building, I saw in Milk street. I stood in the Post Office when 
the opposite side of Milk street was burning, and there was a stream of 
water thrown from Milk street across to a sign on one of the stores and 
they couldn't hit the sign ; the water wouldn't go there. Afterwards, 
when the fire was burning in behind Congress square, against Mr. Free- 
land's building there, the City Exchange, the Ma^'or himself said he 
didn't see how they could save the City Exchange, and nobody would 
have supposed it could have been saved ; but the water was poured down 
to such an extent that it was saved, which shows the advantage of pour- 
ing water down, which I suppose everybod}' knows. 

Q. (By Mr. Fiuth.) Were there not a great many engines there at 
that time? 

A. A great many were there. I think the larger part of the Fire De- 
partment had got around there at that time. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) That path from Washington street to the 
water, which it was proposed to make, included the buildings between 
Spring lane and Water street, did it not? 

A. I don't know. I don't think au}^ one had it very clear in his mind 
what would be done, but I supposed it was going from this side of the 
old South to Water street, and going right down straight through. It 
is lucky it was not begun there at Washington street. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) Was there much time lost by the firemen in con- 
sequence of these explosions? 

A. I shouldn't think there was. 

Q. Were they fighting the fire while there was powder in the build- 
ings? 

A. There was only one engine, one pipe and hose, to withdraw in 



604 

Congress street (I don't think there was any more), when the "Evening 
Gazette" bnikling was blown up. Those men fell back into Lindall 
street. There was not any hose at all in Kilby street. Everybody fell 
back for five or six minutes, but a part of the firemen went into Water 
street, wliere the fire was going on the same, and where they were of 
use. Part of them fell back for a few minutes. 

Q. (By Mr. Cobb.) Can you fix the length of time they ceased play- 
ing? 

A. No, sir ; but it was only a very few minutes. 

Q. How long should you think it was? 

A. Well, Isliould think it might have been four or five minutes. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) Looking back upon it, what do you think now 
of the use of powder, as it was used that night? 

A. I should think it helped the firemen to get at the fire and to extin- 
guish it ; but it seemed to me that it was as badly used as it could be. I 
may be quite wrong, but 1 can't see any point in letting a building catch 
fire, and tlien blowing it down. I had supposed, and do now, that the 
point of the whole thing was to throw the buildings down and make a 
path before the fire got there, and keep it back. 

Q. Did you suggest that to Gen. Benham, or anybody you saw? 

A. I told the Ma3'or. I didn't tell Gen. Benham, because he don't 
keep very quiet when there is any excitement. I knew him at the South. 
He gets a little worried. He ran round there, and seemed to have a 
worse time than anybody that mofning. 

Q. (By Mr. Ru>:sell.) Do you know what time it was when j'ou first 
saw him? 

A. It was just about sunrise, or a little after, I should think.- There 
is one thing about the fire that I will state. When I went home the first 
time, which was about half-past nine o'clock, it was quite evident, as I 
supposed, that powder had got to be used in order to stop the fire at 
Arch street and Franklin street, which I supposed would be the limit. I 
didn't tiiinli it would go the other side of Winthi-op square. It was evi- 
dent that they had got to use some powder. I so stated to somebody 
whom I met. I don't think it took any powers of observation be3'ond 
those of a child to see that, at the time. I wanted to say about the po- 
licemen, that I noticed three or four policemen who were round all 
night. I saw Deputy Chief Quinn about there, and in the Mayor's of- 
fice, and it seemed to me that his head was kept all night ; and there 
were two or three policemen who were terribly brave, I thought ; alwaj'-s 
doing all they could, and always putting themselves in the post of dan- 
ger. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) I want to go back to about the time when 
you first arrived at the fire. When you saw the fire kindling on the 
north side of Summer street, did it appear to you a possible thing to 
extinguish it and stop it there? 

A. I did think at the time that the fire would be stopped there. It 
seems to be an absurd thing to say, but I thought if there was only 
suflScient water, and if it had been carried into the upper part of the 
buildings, the fire could be stopped at that point. 

Q. AYas tliere apparatus enough there then to do that? 

A. There was enough to throw streams from the street. 



605 

Q. How many did you see throwing streams from the street? 

A. I can't tell. There were certainly two being thrown then. 

Q. Without accomplishing anything ?- 

A. I didn't see that they were doing anything in the world. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) Did you observe anything in regard to the heat ? 

A. It was very great, but half an hour later, when I went round, I 
went up a considerable distance beyond where the church-yard extended, 
and the heat was not so great but that I could stand there and do any- 
thing I wanted to. The heat didn't trouble me at all. Up a little fur- 
'ther, I have no doubt it was very hot. There were plenty of men, but 
they were down on the street. There was no one going into the buildings 
or on to the roofs. 

Q. (B3' Mr. Philbrick.) Was there anything to prevent taking a 
line of hose on to tlie building on the corner of Otis and Summer streets, 
and playing on the other buildings from the windows? 

A. I could not see that there was. It was not too hot to do that at 
all. If they could not have gone into that building , they could have gone 
into the one below, on Otis street, or into the one on Summer street 
above, — either one or the other. There was an enormous mass of human 
beings down there at first. There were plenty of firemen there. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) When yoil went your round the first time, did 
you observe the Assistant Engineers anywhere? 

A. I don't know just what the Assistant Engineers do. The engines 
were running and there was somebody looking after them. I didn't no- 
tice the Engineers at all. There was plenty of water, as I believe I told 
you, in the streets. I couldn't see that any engines lacked water at all, 
but the lack of fuel did strike me. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) Did you see any engine failing for lack of 
fuel? 

A. No, I did not ; but 1 don't know enough about fire engines to tes- 
tify as to that. 

Adjourned to Monday, January 6. 



606 



TWENTY-SECOND DAY. 

Monday, Januar}' 6, 1873. 
HENRY A. PIPER, siwrn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Of what firm are you a member? 

A. Tebbetts, Baldwin & Davis. 

Q. Have you any theory to account for the fire, or any clue to its 
origin ? 

A. No, sir, I have none at all ; I do not live in town and was not here 
at the time of the fire. I have no theory. I suppose it originated up 
stairs ; I see no good reason to believe it originated down stairs. The 
condition of the boiler-room, as we found it after it was excavated, did 
not show much evidence of anything being wrong on that floor. The safe 
fell into the basement, and when it was removed, the flooring was found 
to be perfectly sound. If the fire had originated down stairs, it would 
have been natural that the flooring would have been charred or burned, 
it seems to me. 

Q. (B}' Mr. Philbrick.) Where was that floor? 

A. In the basement, at the rear, next that passage-way. 

Q. Near the elevator and boiler? 

A. Yes, sir, right adjoining. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Did you see the top of the boiler when there 
was no rubbish upon it? 

A. No, sir ; I think Mr. Tebbetts did. 

WILLIAM C. TEBBETTS, swoni. 

Q. (Bj'^ Mr. Russell.) Were you a member of the firm of Tebbetts, 
Baldwin & Davis? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Have you any theorj' to account for the origin of this fire? 

A. I have no theory about it. I have my impression, formed from 
the information I have got from people living in the immediate vicinity, 
and from one or two gentlemen wiio were passing b}' there at the moment 
of the fire, that it must have taken iu the upper part of the building, 
somewhere on the third, fourth, or fifth floors. My impression would be 
that it took on the upper floor. 

Q. AVhen the excavation was made did j^ou see the boiler? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. What was the condition of the boiler? 

A. The condition of the boiler was just exactly as the Engineer says 
he left it. The doors were ajar, very nearly closed, but sufficientl}^ open 
to stop the draught, and everything in the order that he reported to me 
before vre excavated. 



607 

Q. Did 3^011 see the top of the boiler after it was cleared off? 

A. Yes, sir ; the rubbish was in about the same condition that it was 
when it fell. They excavated all around it, and cleared off the top of 
the boiler, but the rubbish and debris remain just the same as it was on 
the fall of the building; they haven't disturbed it at the present time. 

Q. The boiler is in complete order? 

A. The boiler is apparently in perfect order ; the walls are plumb ou 
the side and on the end. On the top edge of the wall, where some beam 
struck it, I presume, the top bricks are pushed over a little ; that is all 
the injury there was done to the boiler ; I don't suppose there was any 
more injury than that to the boiler ; it has no appearance of it. 

Q. Did you see the floor where the safe fell? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. What was the condition of that? 

A. The floor was apparently as sound when we were taking the safe 
out, as it was the day before the fire. 

Q. Was it charred? 

A. I couldn't see that it was charred at all at the time. On getLino- 
our safe out, as soon as they commenced to clear the ruins, they got out 
a timber that was about half or two-thirds burned, and that left our safe 
on an incline. It was burned after we excavated the safe, but I attrib- 
uted that to the great heat which appeared to be there after we got out 
our safe. After we got our books from the safe, the fire burned up very 
fiercely, so much so that the bricks were red-hot. There was a great 
deal of fire there, and when we got at two other safes which were there, 
we found that the contents, which were of but little value, were de- 
stroyed. 

Q. When did you get out the first safe ? 

A. About five o'clock on Thursday afternoon. 

Q. Was that a movable safe? 

A. Yes, sir, resting on the street floor. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) Did j'ou sa}^ your books were destro3'ed? 

A. No, sir, we saved all our books ; but we had two Other safes 
which belonged to some previous firms I was interested in, outside of the 
counting-room. There was nothing of any great value in them, and we 
thought it was not worth while to undertake to excavate them and o-et 
them out ; they were simplj' old books. 

Q. (By Mr. Puilbkick.) Where was the safe found which had your 
books in it? 

A. It was found just about in the position in M'hich it stood, only 
tipped over on the doors. 

Q. It was in the rear of the building? 

A. Yes, sir ; it tipped into the cellar about nine or ten feet, with the 
doors down. 

Q. Was it about half-way between the Kingston street wall and the 
boiler? 

A. It was a little neai'er the boiler than the other side of the buildinf. 

Q. About in the centre of tlie building then? 

A. It was near the centre of the building, I should judge. I would 
state that in front of the boiler, there was a brick ash-pit, and the JKa- 
gineer stated that we should find when we got at that boiler, the 



608 

door shut, that we should find everything clean there, as we did. I 
was there when the rubbish was cleared away, and I think there was an 
officer there also to examine the condition of that ash-pit, and we found 
that there were no burned coals tliere at all. On the contrary, we found 
there the coal which he had wheeled in from the bin in the afternoon, as 
he was accustomed to do to be ready for his fire on Monday morning, 
entirely unburned, and I had it all taken up, and have got it now in the 
cellar of my house, three barrels of it ; there is no appearance of fire 
having been near it. The elevator floor, of course, was made of wood, 
and that was always left on the lower basement floor over night ; it is 
there now, and I believe entirely unburned ; possibly it may be charred 
a little on the top. It is partly covered now with bricks, but the floor of 
the elevator remains there now, and can be seen. They thouglit of re- 
moving it, but I told them they had better let it remain there. It would 
do no harm, and might be or use to examine. 

Q. Do you remember anything about a brick fire-flue which extended 
from the top of the boiler to the cliimney ? 

A. I know nothing about it specially. I have been in the engine- 
room very many limes, but I don't know anything about that. 

Q. Do you remember where it was ? 

A. I can't precisely locate it. I don't think I ever examined particu- 
larly euougli to notice that. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) The draft up that elevator must have been _very 
strong when the fire got started? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. "Would not that explain the non-burning of the wood at the bottom ? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. (By Mr. Piiilbrick.) Have you seen any of the people who lived 
in the opposite houses? 

A. Yes, sir ; I have seen Mr, Hamilton, who. is in the second or third 
house? 

Q. Have you seen any of the people living in Mr. Pratt's house? 

A. No, sir, I have not ; I met a gentleman a fortnight after the fire, 
■who keeps in Summer street, and he told me that one of his partners or 
employees (I can't say which) came from Chandler street to Kingston 
street "and stood there, as he told me, ten minutes, and saw the fire burn- 
ing in tlie upper part of the building, and says to himself, knowing some 
ofihe occupants below these gentlemen, " They will get nicely_ wet." 
He says he saw no fire anywhere about in the lower part of the building. 
If there was any fire in the lower part of the building, there is no ques- 
tion about a man's seeing it. The whole length of the store, which was 
101 feet on Kingston street, and 51 feet on Summer street, was glass; 
the whole distance along the basement and lower end on the first floor, 
was nothing but glass and iron columns. No person going by or near 
there could possibly be mistaken about where there was a light. 

Q. Were you there when the alarm was given ? 

A. No, sir ; I started from my house in Walnut street immediately 
after the general alarm was sounded. I came down into Summer street, 
and finding I could not get through Summer street, I went round through 
Kingston street, and got into the rear of the building there. It might 
have been fifteen minutes after the first alarm sounded. 



609 

Q. How late were j'^ou in the basement that night? 

A. I don't remember of being in the basement. I can't say whether I 
was there an hour before that, or half an hour. I was in tlie counting- 
room, and my partner, Mr. Piper, went below to wash his hands, in the 
'dark. He came up into the counting-room, and I sat there talking with 
him. We came very near being there to know more about it, because I 
had just suggested to him, as he had been at work upon the books three 
or four days to find a few cents in his balance, that as I had nothing to 
do that evening, I would be very glad to stay with him for some little 
time and assist him ; but he said he had been there some time, and had 
been at work three or four days, and he thought he would adjourn until 
Mondaj^ morning. If we had been there, we might have known more 
than we do now. We might have known enough to get the books out of 
our safe. The v^^ay I account for the very great flame immediately after 
the breaking out of the fire, is on account of the great amount of pine 
and light material, — the empty cases and the surplus hoop-skirt frames, 
which, when the fire got there, it was just like lighting shavings and 
kindling-wood in an oven ; it would go very quickl}'. That accounts to 
me for the immense flame which seemed to be all over the building. 

ALBERT DAVIS, sivorn. 

Q. (By Mr. Eussell.) You are a member of what firm? 

A. Tebbetts, Baldwin & Davis. 

Q. Were you in Boston at the time of the fire ? 

A. I was in town ; I was not at the fire until after our building fell in. 

Q. What time did 3'OU leave the building? 

A. I left there at twenty minutes before six. 

Q. Have you any theory about the origin of the fire? 

A. Well, I have a theory, judging only from what I have heard. I 
know nothing personal!}^ about it, sir. I conversed with quite a number 
of gentlemen who live in Kingston street on the following day, and only 
know their theory about it. I helped to get out our safe. We found it 
on our basement floor, where our packing-room was, and the floor where 
we dug it out was not burned at all ; it was as perfect as it was the day 
it was laid. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) Was it not covered with rubbish which 
prevented its burning later? 

A. It was burned later, but when we got out the safe, there was no 
appearance of fire there. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Did you see the coal that Mr. Tebbetts has? 

A. I did, sir; that had not been charred at all; it looked as brioht 
and fresh as when they first put it in. 

Q. (By Mr, Philbrick.) Have you ever seen Mr. Pratt or his son, 
who live directly opposite? 

A. I saw a gentleman wdiora I supposed to be Mr. Pratt, Sunday 
morning ; he was the only person I saw who had a difterent theory in re- 
gard to where the fire caught from the other gentlemen. 

Q. What did you understand his theory to be? 

A. His observation was, as I understood him, that he first saw the fire 
going up the elevator in the lower part of the building. Mr. Hamilton, 
39 



610 



who lives in the next house to him, told me he heard a cry of fire near 
his house, and went to tlie window, and saw the fire in the top of the 
building, and saw no fire except in the third or fourth story. Mr. Jolm 
H. Rogers told me the very same thing. Then there was a j'oung man, 
(I don't know his name, I know his face very well, he used to keep with 
a neighbor of ours in the dry goods business, and boarded with Mr. 
Pratt,) who corroborated all Mr. Hamilton told me. 

ALBERT P. DAMON, sworn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Were you an occupant of the building at the 
corner of Kingston and Summer streets? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. What was j^our firm ? 

A. Damon, Temple & Co. 

Q. At what time did you reach the great fire? 

A. I should think it was about a quarter to nine. 

Q. What is your business ? 

A. Men's furnishing goods. 

Q. How long had you been in that building? 

A. We went in there the year before, — in March, I think it was. 

Q. How long a lease did j'ou have? 

A. We had a lease of five years. 

Q. On what terms ? 

A. It was $5,000, — taxes and steam extra. 

Q. (By Mr. Firtii.) What rooms did you have in the building? 

A. The whole of the second story, up one flight. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) What was the value of your stock at the 
time of the fire ? 

A. The value, as we have pi'oved it, was $44,000, — in that neighbor- 
hood. 

Q. What was your insurance ? 

A. The insurance was $25,000, on stock and fixtures. 

Q. In Boston offices? 

A. In New York offices and one Philadelphia office. 

Q. Have you settled with the Insurance offices? 

A. We have settled with one ; our claims are adjusted with three. 

Q. At what time did j-ou leave the store Saturday afternoon ? 
.A, It was about a c|uarter of five. 

Q. Who of your firm left last? 
.A. I left last, 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) Have you any theory in regard to the origin of 
-.the tire ? 

A. Well, sir, I have a theory, but it is somewhat in conflict with some 
of the facts, or things which are reported as facts. I should say the 
upper part of the building was the most unsafe part of the concern ; but 
if the fire originated in the upper part of the building, I don't see how 
it could have been so hot in the lower part at the time when the people 
got there. 

Q. Why do you think the upper part was the most unsafe? 

A' Because it was filled with the most combustible material. 



1 



611 

Q. (B}^ Mr. Philbrick.) Yon mean the goods themselves, the mer- 
chandise, not the building, was tlie most combustible? 

A. The merchandise. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) You say j-ou think that the fact that the fire 
was very hot below indicated that it could not have originated above. 

A. That would be a theory ; but we have a man who boards right on 
the opposite side of the street who states that when he heard the alarm 
given he rushed out and saw the fire in the upper story; then the man 
who gave the alarm saj^s he first saw the fire break into the elevator and 
rush up ; so my theories don't amount to much. When I got there, the 
whole of Otis street was on fire. It was a quarter to nine, and my man 
says it was twent}' minutes past seven when he ran down and tele- 
graphed me, and that was immediately after the alarm was given. 

Q. What is the name of 3'our man? 

A. Mr. George Pierce. 

JOHN H. HATHORNE, sworn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) How many horses do you employ on your om- 
nibus line? 

A. About two hundred and twenty. 

Q. How many had you at work on the 9th of November, — the day 
of the great fire ? 

A. 1 had about one hundred and eightj' of the two hundred and 
twent}^ I think 1 may perhaps have used two hundred. 

Q. Had they been sick ? 

A. They had. 

Q. Were they convalescent then ? 

A. They were. The disease broke out with me about the 21st of Octo- 
ber, on Monday. On Thursda}', 1 took off all my stages, and~laid still 
for seven days. On the seventh day, the 31st, I commenced to run, If 
think, three stages, four horses to each stage. 

Q. Then how did you go on? 

A. Then we increased from time to time as we found the horses were 
convalescent, got well, or able to work, and by the 9th of November, 
Saturday, we had thirty coaches running. 

Q. Two horses each? 

A. Two horses, pretty much ; I can't say but we doubled up some of 
them. 

Q. At that time could horses have been obtained in the market if you 
had wanted to buy or hire horses? 

A. I can't answer in regard to that ; I presume that at the sale 
stables most of the horses were affected. People were rather afraid to 
buy. I should have hesitated about buj-ing any green horses from the 
country at that time. 

WILLIAM H. JONES, sworn. 

Q. (Bj^ Mr. Russell.) Are you a member of the Committee on Fire 
Department of the city government? 
A. I am. 



612 

Q. Did you ever have any conversation with Mr. Damrell with regard 
to a want of apparatus or want of water in this district which is now 
the burnt district? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. When was it? 

A. I have had several talks with him previous to the fire and since 
then. 

Q. Previous to the fire, what did he say? 

A. He said the hydrants were not located near enough together. I 
reall}' cannot give the conveisation, except in general terms. He said 
the hydrants were too far apart altogetlier, and they were not suitable 
hydrants for the localit3\ I remember distinctly his telling about the 
Water Works taking out his Lowry hydrant in Winthrop square. 

Q. How long was this before the fire? 

A. Really, f can't tell that. 

Q. Did you ever have more than one conversation with him about it? . 

A. I don't remember ; it has very often been spoken of in talking the 
thing over in regard to tlie water supply. 

Q. (By Mr. Fhilbrick.) Have your committee ever urged any action 
towards granting further apparatus or increasing tiie number of 
hydrants? 

A. Not this year's committee. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) You are speaking about the committee of 
1872? 

A. Yes, sir. You understand that the location of the hydrants, etc., 
does not lay with our committee. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) The location and furnishing Of engines 
does belong to your committee, does it not ? 

A. Y^'es, sir. Nothing has been done by our committee in regard to 
locating any apparatus in what is now the burndd district. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) Had your attention been called to the need of 
action on your part as the Committee on Fire Department during the 
5'ear 1872, in this district? 

A. No, sir ; there has been talk in regard to the location of hydrants, 
and in regard to the water supply. 

BENJAMIN P. PICKERING, sworn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Do you belong to any fire compan}^ ? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. What one? 

A. I am foreman of Lafayette Hose, Salem, No. 5. 

Q. Do you recollect that you were throwing water on two dwelling- 
houses in Pearl place, leading out of Pearl street, and were called away 
to Oliver street? 

A. I do, sir. 

Q. At what time was it, as near as you can tell? 

A. I should be rather poor on the time, for I had no way of telling it, 
but I should think it was along somewhere between seven ajid eight 
o'clock. 



613 



Q. "Who asked 3^011 to leave there ? 

A. I was in the fourth story of the building with my men, and a man 
came to me and says, " The orders of the Chief Engineer are to come 
down out of there." I says, " Is it the order of the Chief?" The man 
says, " Yes." Our Engineer was with us, and I asked him what I should 
do. " Wh}^" says he, "do as you are told," and I took the line out, 
and took the men round on the other side of the tenement house. 

Q. (By Mr. PniLBRiCK.) Where did you go with it? 

A. There were two large brick houses. We were on the right-hand 
side going in. We came out with the hose, and went round up 
what they call, I think, Fort Hill, on the back side of the other tene- 
ment house, and played on that. 

Q. Where did you go after that? 

A. Well, we went from there down — I can't tell the street. 

Q. On a street where there were stores? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) Stone or brick? 

A. Stone. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Did 3'ou save the tenement-house you played 
on last? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. How did you happen to leave that? 

A. I don't know from whom the orders came. I got my orders from 
the Engineer who came from Salem. He said he had orders to go down 
on this street. I know we lengthened out some two hundred feet of 
hose after we left. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) Did you have to move the engine? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. Was it one of your Engineers who gave the second order? 

A. It was one of our Engineers that gave me the order, but he said he 
got it from one of the Boston Engineers. 

Q. You don't know who gave you the first order to come out of the 
building? 

A. No. It was some of my men who came to the bottom of the stairs 
and halloed up. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) How long did you play on the second tene- 
ment-house before you changed ? 

A. I should think vve were there an hour and a half. 

Q. Could you have saved that if you had stayed there? 

A. No, sir, nor any other one. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) Could you have saved the first one? 

A. That is rather a difficult question to answer. When we went into 
the building the fire was on the roof, and we went up stairs and got out 
on the roof, and put out all the fire there was. Then underneath, 
there were a number of woodsheds, lined all round the side, and we 
played from the window down on them, and when we left the building, 
there did not seem to be much fire in them. I thought that the object in 
ordering us round was to stop the fire from going further in that direc- 
tion. About two hours after that, I saw the tenement-house we came 
out of, and the roof was all in a light blaze. 



614 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Did you hear any quarreling or cursing about 
your leaving? 

A. Yes, sir, I did. 

Q. Was that when you left the first house or the second ? 
A. If 3^ou will allow me to go on and tell it, I can tell you best in that 
way. I think we must have been stationed on Pearl-street place, and we 
were ordered round on the back side of the house, and went to work on 
it. The man came who owned it, and asked, " Who are you?" I said, 
"I am foreman of Lafayette Hose, of Salem." Said he, " If you will 
take your hose round the building, you can save it." My Engineer 
stood there, and I said, " What do you say, Capt. Osborne? " He said, 
" I think you had better go round." I took the hose round, and the 
man who owned on the opposite side said that was partialit3^ I says, 
"Why?" He says, " You are saving that man's building, and letting 
mine burn." I said, " I can't take care of both, and I think I can save 
that building." The man said, " You can save my building, if you stay 
here." I said, I hadn't anything to do with that. "■ My dut}' always is 
to obey superior orders, and my orders are to go round and save the 
other building." The man cursed and swore considerably, but I didn't 
pay any attention to him, but I told the men to take the hose and go 
round, and they did. I don't think that any one stream could have 
taken care of any of the buildings there were there, they were so large. 

Q. Was there any other stream in that place? 

A. No, sir, there was not. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) Are you sure this change was made, and 
you were ordered out of that building by daylight? 

A. Yes, sir. It was about daylight. 

Q. I understood you to say it was between seven and eight o'clock? 

A. It was daylight. I recollect it was daylight ; when we went round 
on the back side, some one said, " This is Fort Hill," and it was light 
enough to see all around. 

Q. Wouldn't the fire have made it pretty light? 

A. It was daylight. The fire was pretty well down around there 
then. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) When you went round on this other street, 
did you save the building? 

A. The left-hand side was all down almost flat. On the right-hand 
side they did save most of them down on the end where we were. There 
they seemed to check it. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) Did you see any sheet-iron put up over the 
windows, or anything of that kind? 

A. No, sir, I didn't notice any. 

Q. Were there any men in the building or on the roof? 

A. No, sir. While we stood there, Chief Damrell came down, and 
the only man I saw go into the building was one of the men of a hook- 
and-ladder company. He ordered him up there with an axe. There 
were then three or four steamers and hose in that street. 

[At this point, Capt. Damrell was invited to come into the room, and 
he was asked : — ] 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Do you recollect giving any directions to 
Capt. Pickering iu Pearl place ? 



615 

A. I have a faint recollection of meeting this gentleman on Sunday 
morning about seven o'clock, but I wouldn't want to say positively. 

Q. Do 3^ou recollect ordering the removal of any hose from Pearl place 
to Oliver street? 

A. My impression is, that I did order a line of hose from some brick 
building, to take care of the front of the building on Oliver street, where 
the Boston Lead Works are. 

Q. Do 3'ou recollect a Mr. Quinn having a livelj^ conversation with 
you? 

Mr. Pickering. — That is the man. I recollect the man's name when 
you mention it. That is the man who owned the first building. That 
is the man who made the most talk while I was there. 

Capt. Damrell. — I don't recollect Mr. Quinn at all. 

Q. Do 5^ou recollect a man who stated that that house might be saved, 
and was very earnest that you should allow his house to be saved ? 

A. Wei], sir, there were so many such cases, that I really can't recol- 
lect any particular one. There was somebody, a stout, thick-set, dark- 
complected man, who called me all the damned scoundrels he could think 
of. I didn't know that I had given any directions to come in contact 
with him. 

Mr. Pickering. — After we came out of the building, the men said, 
"The Chief is here," and Mr. Quinn came up and called hira every- 
thing he could lay his tongue to. They said it was a wonder that he 
didn't knock him down or have him arrested. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Where did that hose go, Mr. Damrell ? 

A. I think it went round into Oliver street, and played on the front 
of Mr. May's building. I can't give the names. This much I know, that 
when I left this gentleman, I went into the store and met Mr, Chadwick, 
and he said that was his building, and I immediately had a stream 
brought into the rear under Capt. Munroe. 

Mr. Pickering. — I recollect a remark made when we came round to 
this building. We had to take a ladder and got our stream right on to 
the fire. It seemed to be round the window-frames ; and a man said, 
" I own this building ; and that is the best thing that has been done for 
the last three hours." 

Q. Did you say when you were directed to leave the other building, 
that you could save it if you were allowed to stay ? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. Did you think at the time you went awa}- that j'ou could save it? 

A. Well, at the time we went away, I don't know as I passed any 
opinion on it. There was so much fire around there, it would have been 
impossible to have passed any kind of an opinion. 

Q. Did Mr. Damrell swear at this Mr. Quinn? 

A. I never heard him. 

Q. Did you hear him say he " would fix him damned quick"? 



616 

A. I never did. 

Q. Did Aou say to Mr. Damrell that you could save that block if j^ou 
were allowed to remain? 

A. I never did. 

Q. Did 3'ou say anything of the kind ? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. Did you say it to anybody ? 

A. No, sir. I never made an}^ talk witli Mr. Damrell at all during 
the whole fire. He came to me once for some hose, and I gave it to him, 
and he came to me once for an axe, and I gave it to him. 

Q. Did 3'ou make an}^ objection to the order that was given to you to 
move your hose from that place to another? 

A. No, sir, I did not. 

JOHN S. DAMRELL, recalled. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Will you state what took place in Pearl street 
in regard to Mr. Quinn's house? 

A. I really cannot. I simpl}' passed on. This man was talking very 
violently to me. I did not know him ; I had not come in contact with 
him ; I did not know that I had trod upon his corns in any way, and 
consequently I paid no attention to him ; but seeing this block on Oliver 
street, with the window-frames on fire, and this stream on the brick 
building in the rear, doing no possible good, I took it off and placed it 
there in conjunction with a stream under Capt. Munroe, to save that 
block, and keep the fire from working down further. 

Q. How far was it from the building this hose was playing on to 
Oliver street? 

^1. It was really on Oliver street, only on the opposite side. Pearl 
place was a small place. I don't know that I can get it right, but I will 
make a little diagram to show j-ou how it was. (Mr. Damrell made a 
sketch of the streets in that neighborhood, and pointed out the location 
of the building in question.) This stream was playing into that block 
of buildings leading from Oliver street into Pearl place. They were 
pla3Mng over some sheds, and I took them from that position, and 
brought them to this block of buildings on Oliver street, where the Lead 
Works were. That was on fire in front. The buildings on the opposite 
side of the street were on fire, and this stream tiiat was playing on the 
rear of these other buildings was doing no possible good, and I regarded 
the merchandise in those stores as of forty times more value than one of 
those dwelling-houses, so that there was really no alternative, in my 
judgment, but to take the hose off and try to save that block in Oliver 
street, and so prevent the fire from going beyond, because, as I recollect 
it, there was an open space beyond that block. 

Q. Did you hear the captain of the Salem hose say he could save that 
building if you would let him stay ? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. Did he say anything of the kind? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. Did he make any objection to being removed? 

A. Not the slightest. 



617 



Q. Did you swear at Mr. Quinii? Did you tell Lira you would "fix 
him damned quick"? 

^1. If I did, I must confess to a state of feeling that I never experi- 
enced before. I don't I<now that I ever used a profane word in my life, 
I should think it very strange, under the most trying circumstances. I 
thinlv Mr. Qainn must be mistaken in the man. I I'eally don't think it 
could have been me, because I hail not come in contact with him. He 
comuienced at me buU-terrier fashion, and I certainly made no reply to 
him whatever. 

Q. Did the people there make any remarks about him, or about 3'ou? 

A. I can't say one word as to that. I had just one point to malce, 
and I never allowed any talk that might be made by outsiders at that 
time to divert me from the business I liad in hand. If I should stop to 
listen, or argue any point, I certainly should be A'ery reprehensible, in 
my judgment. 

Q. Will you tell us how man}^ firemen were killed and maimed at the 
fire? 

A. We lost two from the Boston Fire Department. 

Q. How many from out of town ? 

A. I think there were but three members of the Fire Departments. 
There were nine altogether, ex-members, and men who have been con- 
nected with tlie departments. 

Q. How many Boston firemen were maimed? 

A. I don't know of but one who was injured to any extent at that fire, 
Mr. ^Yoodward. 

Q. Were there any from out of town maimed ? 

A. Yes, sir. Mr. Jenness, of Cambridge, came in a well man, weighing 
one hundred and sixty-three pounds. I don't think he weighs a hun- 
dred pounds to-day. He is in a terrible plight. 

Q. Where was he injured? 

A. Some men were ordered under Captain Casey, of Cambridge, into 
a building, in order to cut off the fire from coming into the rear, and 
while there, a current of hot air, I call it, was formed, and it struck tlie 
rear wall of tlie building opposite, and it fell down and crushed the gable 
end of the building they were in, and in coming down stairs he fell, and 
got caught in the bight of the hose, and in the snap of the line his lungs 
were wrenched, or, as the doctor__^says, " He snapped the muscles con- 
nected with his lungs." 

Q. What were the names of the Boston firemen who were killed? 

A. One was William F. Farry, second foreman of hook-and-ladder 
compau}'^. No. 4, the other was Daniel Cochran, a member of the same 
company. Those gentlemen were lost on AYashington street. They 
were away from their piece of apparatus. I don't know why they went ' 
away, but there is no question, from the information I have from mem- 
bers of the hook-and-ladder company, that the}' lost their lives in trying 
to save the lives of others who were caught in the building. 

In regard to those from out of town, I will state, that I wrote to the 
Chiefs of the ditlerent towns, asking them to send me a list of tliose killed 
and injured, stating their name, age, the number of their families, and 
dependents upon them, and also to send me their photographs. I 
have received only two or three answers. I have the name of 



618 

George H. Smith, of Watertovvn, aged twenty-nine, single. He 
was injured, but not seriously. John Richardson, twenty-eight, 
married man ; he fell from a roof on Monday morning, while putting a 
stream of water on Jordan & Marsh's store. He was injuied quite se- 
riously, and taken to the Massachusetts Hospital, and in about a fort- 
night we sent him to New Haven, where he belongs. He is a member 
of the New Haven Fire Department. Thomas Maloney, Worcester, 
aged twenty \'ears and six months, single ; he died from injuries received. 
He was not a member of the Fire Department, but came down as a a'oI- 
iinteer. R. IS.. Extell, Worcester, injured in the back. James McCame, 
also of Worcester, injured. These are all the names I have recorded at 
present. Young L. Frank Olmstead, of Cambridge, was killed at the 
bazaar on F'ederal street, and Mr. Frazier, also of Cambridge. The case 
of the Abbotts of Charlestown, I suppose you are quite familiar with. I 
think the Abbott brothers were not members of the Cliarlestown Fire 
Department, but formerly were, and were at that time members of the 
Red Jacket Hose Company Association. One of them has not been 
recovered ; the other had his back broken, and remained at the 
hospital until about a week ago, when he died, and his mother 
died of grief. The one whose body has not been found was Porter 
Abbott. The name of his brother who died in. the hospital was 
Albert Abbott. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Were the out-of-town firemen paid for their 
attendance ? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. Do they claim it? 

A. Not to my knowledge. 

Q. If any came and claimed pay, would they be paid? 

A. I can't answer that question. I have no doubt the committee 
would very generously consider it. 

Q. (By Mr. Fiuxn.) When the department goes from Boston do they 
ever make a charge ? 

A. Oh, no, sir. I have made good their losses, furnished them with 
what hose they lost, etc. I have never presented any claim for any- 
thing our department has lost out of town. I have always done it gra- 
tuitously. 

Q. You mean for lost material ? 

A. Yes, sir. I have always considered, that in case of a fire in Charles- 
town, for instance, the property was owned by Boston men, after all. 

Q. (By Mr. Fhilbrick.) Did you find the loss considerable? 

A. Oh, 3'es, sir ; quite so. About nine thousand feet of country hose 
was lost. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell). On tlie night of the fire, did 3'ou give notice 
to any superintendents of any of the railroads that you woulu want their 
tracks ? 

A. Only to the Boston & Albany ; I sent there for an express train. 

Q. When you telegraphed to Salem, or any other place for help, 3'ou 
left it to them to arrange for coming in? 

A. I sent by telegraph and left the arrangement with the stations on 
the lines of the roads. 



619 

Q. (Bj^ Mr. Firth.) You did not communicate with tlie Eastern 
Railroad officials in Boston ? 

A. I sent to the Eastern Railroad by Mr. Allen, but what time it was, 
or the circumstances, I don't know. I sent to the Eastern Railroad, and 
the messenger found nobody there, and then Mr. Allen came to me, and 
asked me if he shouldn't go to the Superintendent of the P^astern Rail- 
road, and make arrangements in regard to the transportation of engines 
over that road. I said if he would attend to that for me, he would do 
me a great favor. I think that was Mr. George Allen, Superintendent 
of Lamps. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) At what time did you first send to the Eastern 
Railroad ? 

A. I am not clear as to that. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) Was it about the time when you sent to the 
others ? 

A. I think it must have been an hour or so after I sent to the Boston 
& Albany road. I sent a courier with dispatches to different towns, I 
suppose soon after eight o'clock, but I did not send for an express train 
from Worcester until I learned that the telegraph offices along the line 
were closed. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) What is the regulation about shutting off 
the reservoir? 

A. We always close our reservoirs the moment we disconnect our 
engine, but at this fire I was obliged to put the out-of-town companies 
at the reservoirs, and send my own to the different h3-drants as far as I 
practically could, simply from the fact that the out-of-town companies 
had no connections to fit our hydrants. Thus when the engines were 
drawing from the hydrants, we could get no water from the reservoirs. 
This was the case with the Franklin-street reservoir, and near Church 
Green, and in one or two other places. But after we had ceased to 
draw on the hydrants on that line, of course the water came back again. 
I cannot conceive of any material detriment or damage to us on account 
of not shutting off the water, but generally it was to " get up and get" 
as quick as we could, and if the shutting off of the water was omitted 
sometimes, it would be no matter of wonderment to us, for the men 
stayed there just as long as it was in the power of men to staj'. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) Are there tools carried on every engine for 
opening and shutting those gates? 

A. No, sir. On the ladder carriages we carry a long wrench made on 
purpose to reach the gates of our reservoirs ; but the engine companies 
liave no wrenches at all, only to disconnect with the hydrants. The 
wrench for the reservoirs is a long wrench, and we carry them on the 
ladder carriages. When we are obliged to resort to them, a ladder-man 
is detailed for the wrench to turn the water on the reservoir. He under- 
stands that. He has that particular duty to attend to, just the same as 
when a ladder is raised, a man who is called a " dog-man," arms him- 
self with a hammer, and his duty is to dog the ladder, and make it se- 
cure. Then we have other men, who are called " axe-men," and their 
duty is to take axes from the carriage, and report themselves to the 
Engineer, and await orders. Then we have four men, who are called 
"rake-men," whose duty it is to go inside of the burning building, put 



620 

in their ralces, and take the plaster off over head, so as to enable us to 
get at tlie ceiling as well as the walls. That is their special duty. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) Is this man who carries the reservoir 
wrench ordeied to attend to shutting off the water, as a general thing, 
after he opens it ? 

A. Certainl3\ He takes that back to his carriage. 

Q. If they are obliged to leave the reservoir, is it liis business to look 
after it and see that it is shut off? 

A. Yes, sir. Tliat is to say, if he can ; but in some cases Avhere we 
have a large amount of work to do, he might be sent immediately from 
that place to some more important point, and might be away. In the 
case of ordinary fires, to which we are accustomed to go, he would re- 
main and take care of that ; but where we have as much to contend 
with as we had on that night, he would answer any order given him by 
the Engineer. 

Q. The chances are that on that night he would be absent at the time 
the engine left the reservoir? 

A. I have no doubt about it, because we lost our wrenches. 

Q. I want to ask you in regard to the practicability of attaching to 
j'our department a certain number of men, who are gas-fitters, who 
shall always accompany the engine to fires of any considerable size, 
with proper tools to sluit off the gas at the meters or the inlet pipes? 

A. We have men who are gas-fitters in each hook-and-ladder company 
now, who are supplied with a monkey wrench and other tools, and their 
duty is to report to me at once, and shut off the gas. 

Q. The}' did not do any great amount of work that night, did they? 

A. No, sir. The fact is, the ladder-men were detailed as quick as 
they came with small ladders to scale the roofs at the leeward of the 
fire to try to prevent, if possible, their taking fire. 

Q. What means do they have, on scaling those roofs, for extinguishing 
the fire? 

A. Simply by taking their hats or coats and beating it off, or throwing 
it off; getting up to the Lutheran windows, and getting behind the fire 
and brusliing it out. 

Q. What do you think of these little hand-pumps? 

A. I think, in some instances, they serve very well. But you must 
have a bucket of water with them. You have got to carry a bucket of 
water in your hand. We have them in the department ; we carr}^ one on 
each carriage now, — Mr. Bird's pumps. 

Q. I understand that they are a part of the London equipment, and 
are very well spoken of. 

A. Yes, sir. I use, instead of them now, the Babcock Fire-extin- 
guisher, and have three companies organized. They run to every fire. 
There are two men who make that a specialty. They take the extin- 
guishers and start ; and in ten seconds, can get up a pressure of sixty 
pounds to the square inch, which will throw a stream forty feet, by the 
power of its own effervescence. Consequently, we find that they are 
much more effectual tlian the hand-pumps, where you have to carry a 
bucket of water, as it only throws a small stream. In the case of the 
extinguisher, you have only got to hold it ; the power is behind it ; it is 
automatic. 



621 



Q. Have j'on ever heard of one bursting ? 

A. No, sir, I liave not, but I am apprehensive of it. I know it would 
be quite disastrous to the man who was behind it, should it explode, and 
I have some fears in that direction. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) How have thej^ operated in j'our experience? 

A. Very successfully. 

Q. They play only five or six minutes, do they? 

A. No, sir; but you can charge tliem instantaneously. I have with 
each of these extinguisher-wagons, two-inch and inch-and-a-half rubber- 
lined linen hose, with the reducing couplings ; so that if I am at the salt 
water and want to supply my boilers, I run tliis small line instead of 
taking a large line of hose to supply my engines. On the other hand, if 
I am running a long line of hose, I can slip the coupling and put on a 
branch hose, without stopping the other stream. 

Q. How long have you used them? 

A. It is about a year and a half since I introduced them. 

Q. Are they used an3'where else? 

A. I think not, sir, anywhere as a specialty, as I use them here. They 
carrj' them upon their ladder trucks in New York, and also in Chicaoo. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) Do you ever put out fires with them with- 
out the help of heavier ajjparatus ? 

A. Yes, sir. For instance, we had a fire In Temple place which was 
in the ceiling, where we used onl}^ these extinguishers, and saved thirty- 
five or forty thousand dollars. 

Q. Shouhln't you think it advisable to have permanent fire-escape lad- 
ders attached to some part of every block to enable the firemen to oet 
off" the roofs ? 

A. In every instance they should be obliged to bring them within 
certainly twenty-five or thirty feet of the ground. 

Q. Would not that inspire the firemen with a great deal more confi- 
dence, in scaling a burning building, than they would otherwise have? 

A. It would, indeed, and, in addition to that, some means of ready- 
access to tlie roof from the inside, so that we could ventilate the build- 
ing would be of great value to the department. Men hesitate to (^o un- 
less they can find an exit somewhere. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) You would not order them to go to the roof of 
a building unless there was some way of retreat? 

A. No, sir ; but the fact is, we do not order them to go ; we generall}'- 
lead them. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrkk.) Have you ever had occasion to use anj^ of 
the standing cast-iron mains in buildings? 

A. No, sir, we have never had any that I know of. Jordan & 
Marsh have put in some since the fiie. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) Is that the only one 3'ou have heard of? 

A. i think there was one put into Otis place some four or five j^ears 
ago, — a perforated pipe. I have been consulted since the fire by a 
dozen diff'erent firms who are putting them in, — Mr. Sears, and others, 
who came up to iisk my opinion about them. 

Q. Did you know anything about there being an}^ in the building oc- 
cupied by John S. Wright, in Franklin street? 

A. I knew nothinor about it. 



622 



Q. li tliere nnj' practical difficulty in coupling on to them and using 
them ? 

A. I should saj' not. 

Q. If tlie}^ made tliem conform to 3'our coupling, would it not save a 
great deal of time in getting the hose up, and save the risk of bursting 
the hose? 

A. It would. It would save bursting the hose, and it would save a 
great deal of time in getting a line of hose up, if you could put it on the 
floor, and use the water there. That might be on the flight where the 
fire was, or on the roof. 

Q. Don't you think it would be worth while for proprietors to keep 
hose coupled above ? 

A. Yes, sir. I think that every large warehouse should be obliged to 
put a h3'drant in front of the building and run a standing pipe up to the 
top of its building, for its own security. 

Q. (By Mr. Fikth.) What should you think of having hose put in dif- 
ferent parts of the city, easil}'^ accessible ? 

A. I hardly think I should approve of it, unless it belonged to private 
individuals. It would not do us any great amount of good. The fact 
of it is, the transportation of hose from one place to another is done as 
rapidl}' as we can possibly move round to do it. The great trouble in 
moving hose is in getting it up into a building. A building is on fire ; 
of course it is full of smoke, and the difficulty is in working ourselves 
up in the heat and smoke. I do not know of any instance where we 
have experienced any great difficulty on account of having to wait for 
hose. 

Q. (By Mr. Piiilbrick.) Suppose there was a certain amount of hose 
coiled round the hydrants, under the control of a policeman who might 
carry the key in his pocket, don't you think that would be of service? 

A. I can conceive of a case where an immense amount of good might 
be accomplished in that ^Yay. If our police force was what, in my judg- 
ment, it ought to be, — that is, augmented in numbers, to make it effi- 
cient, — almost every fire might be stopped in its incipiency. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) What do you think of the plan of offering a reward 
for the discovery of fires ? 

A. I think it would work very badl}'. I am of opinion that that was 
one of tlie disadvantages under which they suffered in Chicago. I under- 
stand that the underwriters offered a reward to any policeman for the 
discovery of fire after a certain time at night, and putting it out ; and I was 
informed, and I suppose credibly, that fires did take place under very mys- 
terious circumstances, and men claimed the reward for putting them out. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) Can you think of any way in which the alarm 
can be secured more readily, except by having more boxes? 

A. There ought to be a sufficient numl)er of boxes, and there ought to 
be sufficient confidence in the citizens of Boston to trust them, wlien they 
sa}^ tliere is a fire, to commence with ; and then, in the night, there 
ought to be a sufficient number of guardians of the public safety to give 
an alarm. Tiiis morning, for instance, we had a fire on Roby's wharf. 
The light was seen and we took it to be the gas house — the illumination 
from the gas retorts in opening the doors ; but, on going down to the 
wharf and coming back, I saw cinders flying in the air, and, of course, I 



623 

knew there must he a fire. I started off for the fire, and Mr. Garland, 
of the Insurance Brigade, went to the Are and then went back and gave 
the alarm himself, and we rolled in with our apparatus, certainly a quar- 
ter of a mile, and. no alarm had been given by any officer. I don't know 
but it is all right. The officer may have been at tlie other end of his route. 
If he had too long a beat, then the safety of the city is at stake. Take 
it at the Mill Dam ; there is but one officer, I understand, from the pub- 
lic Garden clear out to Parker street. Anj^ one of those large dwelling- 
houses might take fire and half-a-dozen lives be lost, for the officer must 
go, I don't know how far, to give the alarm, and then it must take us 
fifteen or twenty minutes to get there with our apparatus. You can tell 
what the result would be. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) I don't think I understood your opinion 
about the desirability of having hose attached to the hydrants, as they 
Lave in some of the western cities, under the control of the police. Do 
you think there would be any advantage in them ? 

A. I can conceive that if we could have hydrants, so arranged that 
they could be used by our police^ it would be a great advantage, if we 
had a force sufficiently large to perform that service; but it is not ade- 
quate to it now. For instance, I furnished the police stations with Bab- 
cock Fire Extinguishers, some two years ago, or more, so that, in case 
they discovered a small fire, they could bring them into requisition before 
the department got there ; but I did not hear of a single instance where 
one was used, and because they were not used, I took them out of the 
station-houses, and put them into requisition in my own department. 

Q. (By Mr. Firth.) Do you see any other objection to supplying the 
hydrants with hose except the expense? 

A. The cost don't amount to anything. Fifteen minutes of a fire would 
destroy an amount equal to the cost of the hose for five years, so that 
really it don't amount to anything. I see no otlier objection, except tliat 
a question might arise as to the discreetness with which it should be 
used. For instance, there are a hundred thousand dollars' worth 
of property to be destro3^ed by water, and if you allow the fire to burn 
for five minutes, only five thousand dollars would be destroyed. There 
is quite a consideration. Eighteen times out of twenty, wlien we have 
an alarm, vve are promptly on the spot ; and we know that we have a 
force sufficient to control the fire, and we hold our water until we can 
make a direct application, feeling that the amount of damage by the fire 
will be ver}"- mu*^-]! less than by water, and that we are justified in holding 
it as long as we have force enough to extinguish the fire at any rate. 

Adjourned. 



624 



TWENTT-tlllRD DAY. 

Friday, January 10th. 

WM. C. TEBBETTS, recalled, 

Proc]ucefl a, plan and made the foHo-wing statement : — 

That is the Kingston-street phan. That is the store that is going up 
there now, but for size and position and everything you get just the same 
from this that you woukl from the original buikling. 

Q. Is it a fac-simile of the original buikling? 

A. No, sir, it is entirely unlike the other building in architecture, but 
the size is the same, and the style of the roof is the same, substantialh', 
so it would give al)out the same idea of everything about the building. 
That is the Kingston-street elevation, and that is the Summer street. If 
yon will recollect, all of these spaces here were clear glass. Tiiose were 
the Hyatt lights. The door here had a window in it. All these spaces 
here were glass, clear glass ; not dead glass but clear glass, and the same 
thing will apply to all the Kingston-street side. That was glass, the 
whole length of ii e building, so you could look into any part of the store 
or basement. They are all one room, except we had a glass partition, 
mostl}' all glass, running right straight through. The partition run 
through in the basement perhaps as far as that, four or five feet high of 
w^ood, then a glass sash all the way through, so you could have a view 
from this end of the store to the point. The partition was in the rear. 
The boiler was in front of the elevator. Then there was a space of six 
or eight feet for the ash-pit. It was brick, and in that corner was where 
I mentioned the other day we took out the fresh coal which was un- 
burned. That is the elevator. A person coming from Otis street, ap- 
proacliing the store, if there was a light in any part of the basement, it 
would be the first thing that would strike him, if he was coniing down 
the street, and he could not be mistaken. 

Q. Suppose a man stood here? 

A. A man staniling there could not see anj'thing there. That is a 
solid wall. 

Q. Suppose he stood here in the first or second story of a building in 
Kingston street, what chance would there be to look down into the base- 
ment? 

A. Tliere are one or two houses which have a view of perhaps the 
second siory. I don't think there is a house in the street below there 
that has any view of the rear. 

Q. Were there no basement windows? 

A. There were two small basement windows in the old building on the 
back passage. A person standing there could look right in. 

Q. Who has the plan of the old building? 

A. Mr. Klous has a photograph of it. 



625 

Q* Hns Mr. Hall the plans? 

A. I think Mr. Hall has the plans. 

Q. Can you remember about where the fire-flue went from the boiler to 
the chimney? 

A. I remember the pipe from the boiler came out in this direction some- 
where, and entered, I think, as near as I can judge, about there on the 
wall. 

Q. Didn't it run along that party-wall some six feet horizontally? 

A. I should think it did. 

Q. Wasn't it built out on a shelf or stone projection from the wall? 

A. I could not say positively. 

Q. I saw some North River stone sticking out from the wall. 

A. That runs along for some distance. I don't know what it was for. 
I noticed there was some there broken otf, but what it was in the wall for 
I don't know that I ever asked the question. 

Q. You remember seeing the flue project from the wall there? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. How far below the ceiling? 

A. I should say four feet. 

Q. Was that wall bare brick or stone, or was it covered ? 

A. Brick. 

Q. Bare? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Not plastered? 

A. Not at all 

Q. I was going to ask 3'ou about your theory ; whether you think there 
were any possibilit}' of the fire originating in that flue? 

A. I don't think there is a possibility of the fire having started there in 
an}" shape, manner, or form. I am very well conversant with that room, 
for I have been careful to examine the basement when I had been down 
to examine the plasterings along there. We had a partition wall along 
here which separated us from this boiler room. The Engineer had access 
to the engine-room here, by a door, at any time ; and we were separated 
by a partition running along through here. There was a window there 
in the partition. There was a window there I think, and there was a 
door there, and a window there, and then a door here. We had access to 
the elevator by a large double -door. Almost every night, I, and when 
I did not, somebody else did, if I was there last, went down there to 
examine the fastenings and see if they were all right. There were 
fastenings all along here at the entrances, and a window at this end 
of the partition, which was also fastened. 

CLARENCE A. DORR, recalled. 

That (indicating on plan) is where I observed it. I was thinking of 
going down this street to go to the station, and I looked at my watch to see 
if 1 had time to go that way, reckoning the time at about a minute's differ- 
ence, or go by South street. I looked at my watch here, in Kingston 
street, and it was twenty minutes past seven. While I was there I heard 
a slight noise. It was very still indeed, and I looked up in the direction 
of the noise, and it was there at the end of this building, almost to the- 
40 



626 

end. That is the relative position here, and I saw this steam escaping. 
As I said in my testimon}^ it reminded me of passing by the "Post" 
building in Devonshire street. It was precisely the same as that. 

Q. Was it a cracking noise like a fire? 

A. No, sir, it sounded like a printing-press, just as a printing-press 
sounds in a still night, but not perhaps quite as loud as that. Innne- 
diately when I heard it my impression was it was a printing-press, and 
when I looked up and saw the steam, as it appeared to me, and as I 
thought it was when I looked at it, I made up my mind there was some- 
thing or other in the way of printing going on there. It was perfectly 
still, and I did not see a living soul anywhere near me on the street. I 
wanted to say to some one, " Is anything the matter?" or " Is there a 
printing-press up there ? " I did the same in going by the "Post " building 
once. In not perhaps more than half a minute I observed a jet-black 
smoke going up there, and then I knew the place was on fire. I looked 
lip and down through all these windows. I stood about there, and I 
didn't see the least sign of fire there at all ; neither was there the least 
sign of fire in these windows. Then I started and crossed the street into 
Summer street, and looked up and down the building and then I saw no 
sign of fire. Mr. Tebbetts' store was all black, and so it was all up and 
down in front. There was no sign of fire at all. I walked along and 
looked up, and I thought I saw the reflection of fire coming up from 
there. There was a slight reflection of red. Then I started and ran 
round as hard as I could, and b}^ the time I got there some people were 
cr3nng fire. Then I went into that yard, which was as near as I could 
get to it. I had forgotten about the passage-way. If I had remembered 
it I should have gone into it. I looked up, and there was the fire raging 
inside of the Mansard roof in the attic. I stood there some few minutes, 
and then came round to the front. Then it was all on fire here, although 
it hadn't got here. It seemed to confine itself there. It came down 
through here and melted the glass. Then I ran back again. Most of 
my observation was there ; so that I didn't see the first engine, and the 
first thing I saw was this hose-carriage that came up South street. Tlie 
impression I had was, and I made up ni}' mind from the first, that it 
originated up there in that story. It seems to me I must have seen 
some sign of fire here if it had come up the elevator. It began up there, 
I am perfectly satisfied myself, although, of course, I could not swear to 
it, but I was perfectly satisfied as I stood there and talked with the 
people, that that fire originated in the upper story of that building". 

Mr. Philbrick. I should like to ask Mr. Tebbetts if the elevator 
well was cased in all the way up? 

Mr. Teijbetts. Yes, sir, it was. 

JOHN R. HALL, sivorn. 

Q. You were architect of this building — the building that was burned ? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Have you the ground plan of the basement? 

A. No, sir, I have not. Mr. Klous had all the plans of the estate on 
the corner of Kingston and Summer streets. They^were destroyed iu his 
building when it was burned. 



627 

Q. You have no copies ? 

A. I have no copies of tliat building. I have of his other. I have 
the specifications of that building at my office, describing how it was 
built in every particular. 

Q. Do you remember anything about the position of the fire-flue, run- 
ning from the boiler to the chimney? 

A. I remember it was a large flue 12X24, running straight up to the 
top of the building, surrounded on all sides by eight inches of brick wall. 

Q. How far was it from the boiler ? 

A. I could not state exactly how far ; it was very close to it. 

Q. Was it within six feet of it? 

A. I should think it was ; I could not say for a certaint}'. 

Q. Do 3'Ou recollect how the fire draft was conveyed between the 
boiler and the flue? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. Was the part}'- wall in the basement story furred and plastered ? 

A. In the basement story it was sheathed with spruce sheathing. 

Q. Sheathed on furring? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Did that finish pass by the boiler? 

A. No, sir ; where the boiler was and the engine-room, it was a brick 
wall, white-washed. 

Q, How was the elevator, — well lined ? 

A. Sheathed up with spruce sheathing and painted. 

Q. Was the under side of the floor joist plastered over the boiler and 
engine-room ? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Was there a connected coat of plaster throughout the whole ceiling 
of the basement? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Was there any drain-pipe passing down in that neighborhood, in 
that party-wall in the neighborhood of the engine? I saw a pipe in the 
ruins of the wall, 

A. You mean a water-closet pipe, I presume. 

Q. Yes, sir. 

A. I think there was. I think that came down very close to it. 

Q. Do ycu recollect about how far the top of the boiler-setting was 
below the ceiling? 

A. A!)out three feet. 

Q. Was that an open space? 

A. Yes, sir ; the steam-pipes running over it were below the plaster- 
ing immediately over the boiler ; also the machinery that worked the 
elevator. 

Q. Were j^ou near the building at an early part of the fire? 

A. Not nearer than the head of Summer street, on Washington. * 

Q. AVas the elevator well cased in all the way up? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. With door-ways opening into every story? 

A. Yes, sir, double doors. 

Q. Both opening outward? 

A. Both opening outward into the large rooms. 



628 

Q. There were no hatches in the elevator then ? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. How far lip did that elevator run? 

A. To the attic story. 

Q. To the attic floor ? 

A. Yes, sir ; from the basement to the attic. I have the elevation 
and specifications of the building. 

Q. Was the question of movable floors in the hatchway ever consid- 
ered by you ? 

A. No, sir ; you mean closing upon each story ? 

Q. Yes, sir. 

A. No, sir ; the machiner}'- running those elevators at that time, run 
so that it was impossible to close the floors in each story. They may 
have made some improvements since, but at that time there was no 
chance to close them on each story. 

Q. Have you ever seen the automatic elevator in operation at Wel- 
lington's store? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. In '66, this was built? 

A. Yes, sir ; somewhere in that neighborhood. 

Q. What was the cornice ? 

A. Wood. 

Q. Framed in? 

A. Yes, sir. I built about twenty-seven stores down there during the 
four 3'ears after we commenced on Summer street, and put in the same 
kind of elevators, and sheatlied in the same way. 

Q. Were they with wooden cornices? 

A. Yes, sir. The whole of the block opposite where the fire origina- 
ted, called Everett Block. Mr. Rogers owned the centre, Wm. Gray 
owned fifty-four feet of it towards Arch street, and Faxon Bros, owned 
on the corner of Otis. I built both corners of Otis, the corner of Devon- 
shire and the corner of Lincoln. 

Q. Had every block a wooden cornice? 

A. Yes, sir ; all the stores that I built at that time were built with 
■wooden cornices. 

Q. Was that your choice or the choice of the owners? 

A. It was to save expense more than anything else. 

Mr. James H. McKay exhibited a model of the Wilson & Waring ele- 
vator atta(thment with automatic self-closing hatches, and said : — 

"This invention is now in use in New York. 15 Whitehall street is 
the first one we put in. It was patented Oct. 23, 1872. It is manu- 
factuied by the Wilson & Waring Automatic Hatch Co. I have a re- 
poit of a committee of tlie Fire Commissioners of New York, who have 
sfen it in operation practically. This is a copy, and if you would like 
to have me read it to you, I will do so : — 

" Head-quarters Fire Dep't., City of New York. 
Office Board of Examiners. 127 & 129 Mf.rcer St. 
•■ New York. Jan. 3, 1S73. 
" At a meeting of the Board of Commissioners of the Fire Department of the city of New Yort, 
held this day. the Committee on Repairs and Supplies reported that tliey had seen the ■ Wilson & 
Waring Automatic Hatch Cover ' in operation at the store of Hoodlesg & Co., 15 Whitehall street, 



629 

and from a careful examination of it deem it the best means of closing hatchways and elevator- 
openings that has come to our knowledge, and would earnestlj' recommend its adoption in all 
stores, warehouses, hotels and other places where hoistways and elevators are used, feeling satis- 
fied, from its simplicity of construction and non-liability to derangement, that it certainly meets a 
want that has been long felt, in aflbrding security to lives and property at all times. 

" WILLIAM S. KITCHMAN, 
'• President." 

Q. At what speed can that be run with safet}'^ ? 

A. "We have liad two hundred feet a minute. It is hardly necessary 
to run them at that speed, but we have done it for the purpose of testing 
it. 

Q. With any weight? 

A. 7 boxes of tobacco, — 2,800 lbs. 

Q. What is the cost of the patent for a warehouse of five stories? 

A. It is for each floor $125, which includes everything, — hatchways 
and all the attachments of the elevator. 

Q. Does 3'our company furnish it? 

A. Yes, sir ; and put them up and warrant them for one 5'ear. The 
Board of Underwriters of New York have decided that they will reduce 
the rate five per cent, where the hatchways are put on. 

Q. You mean with special reference to this ? 

A. Automatic hatchways. They do not refer to ours. The Superin- 
tendent of Buildings there also recommends it. I have a letter from 
him. The firemen are always certain that the hatchway's are closed 
where this attachment is used. When we put one in we notify the fire- 
men, and the}^ l^now they can enter that building with perfect safety, 
and in case a fire originates in the basement, there is no draft to draw it 
up the hatchway. Whatever story it originates in, it will probably re- • 
main there until the firemen can get there. Most elevators run about 
100 feet a minute ; many of them less than that. 140 to 150 feet a 
minute is very rapid. It makes no difference how fast the elevator runs, 
the motion is positive. This is an elevator-attachment. The elevator 
itself has the same support and machinery that other elevators have. 

EDWARD C. CABOT, sworn. 

Q. (By Mr. Philbrick.) I would like to have you state what you 
think of the new building act. 

A. In the first place, I think it is a little too comprehensive. It takes 
too much the character of specifications, goes too much into detail. I 
think if it could be condensed and simplified, it would be more likely to 
be useful. I don't know that it could be possible to avoid the fixing the 
dimensi(ins of walls, or the strength of walls in certain ways, but there 
have been, from the various amendments which have been made to the 
original act, some features introduced, which seem to me very objection- 
able. One is in regard to substituting iron for stone in the bond of 
piers. Tliere is a clause in the amendment, in which you will see they 
have substituted iron plates, which it is provided shall go through the 
wall in piers, supporting the floors, and also entirely' across piers, sup- 
porting the floors in the basement story ; and where iron is used it 
breaks the bond of tlie pier. It seems to me ver}^ objectionable. In 
the Loudon act, and in most of the foreign acts, they use stone, common 



630 

stone, corresponding to our blue stone. "When that clause came np be 
fore the committee of the Legislature, somebody tliought that would give 
a monopoly to the blue-stone quarries, and substituted iron ; and it seems 
to me it is a great mistake. 

Q. Does mortar form any permanent attachment to iron in building? 

A. I think not. 

Q. When a pier is heated, constructed in that way, what would be the 
effect? 

A. I think the iron would have no value as a bond. I think it would 
be likely to break the bond by expansion. 

Q. Would it not defeat its end entirel}-? 

A. I think so ; yes, sir ; and it puts upon builders a ver}^ unnecessary 
expense. Two-inch plates of iron are very objectionable in every way. I 
think a thin piece of sheet-iron would be better, because there would be 
less expansion to it. It would be less liable to be injurious. 

Q. Does not the general character of the act render it very difficult 
of execution? 

A. I tliink it does. 

Q. Would it be likely to be executed by the inspection which you 
would probably have? 

A. I think not. There are so many things it would be almost impos- 
sible for any inspector to watch in detail. 

Q. And too many details mentioned ? 

A. I think it Avould be inoperative in many ways. It is very difficult 
to draw any act which shall be sufficient in detail to protect the public, 
and at the same time simple enough to be easil}' administered. 

Q. Did your Association have anything to do with drawing up this 
bill? 

^4. They were originally applied to by the city, and drew up an act. 

Q. I mean during tlie special session ? 

A. Merely in a general way, as experts, to give their testimony before 
the legislative committee, and that was merely upon the amendments, not 
upon the original bill. The original bill was drawn b^^ our society, and 
it was very carefully done. 

Q. *Do you mean the bill passed in" 1870, or the one passed at this 
session ? 

A. In the first place, the city applied to the societ3' of architects to 
give them a draft of a bill, which they did ; they employed counsel, and 
were pretty careful in the preparation of the act. 

Q. You mean for the special session ? 

A. No, sir, not for 'the special session ; it was the one previous to 
that. That was very considerably changed by the city, and then sub- 
mitted to the Legislature and still further changes made there. Very 
many of the provisions of the present act are very unlike the provisions 
of the original act. 

Q. Were they concerned in drawing up this act passed at the last 
session ? 

A. No, sir, a few members went and examined the amendments and 
had some changes made in features that they saw were entirely objec- 
tionable, but did not go into very minute detail in regard to it ; they 
didn't have an o^jportunity. 



631 

Q. Judging from 5'our experience, do j'on think the code of penalties 
which are fixed by this recent statute are likely to be efficient in oblig- 
ing people to conform to the act? 

A. I should think not. 

Q. Would it not require a large force of attorne3'^s to prosecute de- 
linquents ? 

A. I think very likel}' it would be a difficult thing to get through. 

Q. How would it do, instead of fixing a penalty to be recoA^ered in an 
action in court, to oblige the party putting up a structure not in accord- 
ance with the act to pull it down again? 

A. I think it would be much better to arrest the work, to condemn it, 
and oblige it to be built as required by the act. I have the impression 
that is the case in some of the foreign acts. 

Q. I notice this act provides penalties to be recovered by action in 
court? 

A. There are so many technicalities that a case would find it hard 
work to get through. 

Q. How are the foreign acts in relation to details? 

A. They go into details very nearl}' as much. 

Q. Is it poss'.ble to have legislation on the subject without this large 
amount of detail? 

A. I think the introduction of these iron plates is a matter of detail 
which was put in, not by experts, but by ignorance. 

Q. There may be mistakes about the details, but my question is 
whether it is not absolutely necessar}^ that there should be a proper de- 
tail specified in the act? 

A. There must be a very considerable amount of detail, but anything 
that is unnecessary' to specify what is a safe building is of course a 
great injury to the bill, because it gives an opportunity for avoiding the 
provisions of it. 

Q. What is your opinion about the desirableness of an entire revision 
of the present law ? 

A. I think it would be very desirable. I don't think the architects 
or builders are satisfied with the present bill. Mr. Bradley spoke of it 
a day or two ago as being very objectionable in some of its features. I 
didn't have time to talk with him about it, but I have met with that 
expression of opinion quite generally. 

Q. Tliat is the general impression in the profession ? 

A, Yes, sir. In putting in force the provisions of the bill now in 
these buildings that are just going up, they find they are obstructed by 
it. There is one very curious mistiike. The bill intended to provide 
that the eaves of stores sliould not be over sixt^^ feet, but as I understand 
the bill, the eaves may be on the back. It is not necessary to put the 
eaves on the front, and the front may be carried up seventy-four feet 
and the water carried to the rear. It is perfectly easy to do that, and it 
would be difficult to get over it. That makes it about as bad as it was 
before. It does not add any safety, certainly. 

Q. Have not many of the oV)jectionable features of this bill been in- 
troduced by amendments ofl^er^d on the floor in the House and Senate by 
parties not experts? 

A. I think they have. There is a clause of this amendment which I 



632 

don't know tlie meaning of at all. It refers to bond timbers. I don't 
know what bond timbers are. I never used such a phrase in my specifi- 
cations, and I asked Mr. Cummings, of Cumnjings & Sears, this morn- 
ing, and he said he didn't know what it was. My impression is it was 
taken from the London act and applies to some construction they have, 
which is much more complicated tlian ours is in regard to timber fram- 
ing. It is done a good deal in lobbying. The gentlemen are not fa- 
miliar with the technical terms, and they do not get a clear idea of what 
is wanted by the persons whom they represent, and they make wild 
statements which are incorporated in the act and are of great dis- 
advantage. 

Q. Do you know whether there is an architect on the floor of the 
House this winter? 

A. I don't think there is. I don't know of any. I know there was 
one attempt made to have a change in regard to corbelling out. It was 
objected to corbelling out with stone, and cutting off the gutters for 
partj'-walls, and they wanted to get rid of this corbelling out of the 
stone on the front and retain the wall above the roof; but as the amend- 
ment was passed at first, the corbelling out was left in and the party- 
wall above the roof was taken out. Tliat was remedied, however, before 
the bill passed, by the parties tliemselves. 

Q. Do you think it would be worth while to restrict the manner of 
constructing elevators, — hoistways? The clause that was first intro- 
duced in this bill was stricken out and did not become a law. There is 
nothing said about elevators in this recent act. Do you think it would 
be worth while to refer to that in the act? 

A. It seems to be of the first importance to provide som6 means to 
cut off the draught through elevators, but whether that could be done I 
don't know. Of course it would be considered oppressive if people 
were obliged to put in any particular patent. 

Q. Are there not several vfiiys of overcoming that? 

A. It would be desirable, it seems to me, to provide that the 
hatchways shall be closed by some automatic means, because if it is 
left as it was in the old bill, simply stating that hatchways shall be 
closed, people forget it. 

Q. If left for private vigilance they would be left open? 

A. I think tliey would, in a majority of cases. I think the firemen 
have a feeling of security when they enter a building where they know 
there is some automatic apparatus of that sort which is operated by the 
machinery itself. 

Q. Do 3'ou think there would be any general objection among the 
arcliitects to making iron fire-escapes on every block to enable tlie fire- 
men to go on to roofs and get off of them, independent of portable 
ladders? 

A. No, sir, 1 can conceive of no reason why they should make any 
objection. 

Q. Should you not feel more hopeful of carrying the right bill through 
the present Legislature than any former one? 

A. I should have more confidence in any recommendation tliat came 
from this committee than anything that catne from an}^ other source now. 

Q. Has there not been a disposition among a good many of the mem- 



633 

bers, especially the country ones, to undervalue the recommendations of 
architects ? 

A. I think the architect is rather a new creature in this part of the 
world, comparatively. I don't think, as a general thing, they are looked 
upon as very reliable by the majority of people. 

Q. The countr}' members consider the carpenter sufficient without the 
architect ? 

A. Yes, sir ; they are the architects, in fact, to them. The society 
here took great pains about the preparation of the first bill, and spent 
five or six hundred dollars on their own account, which was never repaid 
them, in preparing it. 

Q. And the more important of its features were stricken out? 

A. Yes, sir, 

Q. Are the architects generally members of 3'our society? 

A. There are about fifty, I think, out of those in the city. 

Q. How many do 3'ou understand there are? 

A. I have not looked into the directory lately, but ^have the impres- 
sion there are somewhere in the neighborhood of 100 who are repre- 
sented in the director}- as architects. There may be more now. I have 
not looked for several j^ears. I believe almost all who have the largest 
practice in the city are members of the societ}^ 

Q. You are the president, I believe? 

A. Yes, sir, I believe I am the oldest architect in town. I suppose 
that is the principal reason why I am president. I have been in practice 
longer than almost any architect here. I have been in practice since 
1846; commenced practice in 1846. 

Q. You were not the first professional architect in the city? 

A. No, sir ; Geo. Dexter, Mr. Young and Mr. Rogers, I think, were 
practising architects. I am not sure but that Mr. Billings was, at the 
time I commenced. 

Q. Is there any objection to the Mansard roof constructed of proper 
materials? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. Is there any difficulty in constructing it of those materials? 

A. No, sir, not any. I do not think the Mansard roofs burn up in 
Paris more than other roofs. They have the habit there of laying their 
slates mostl}' in mortar. 

Q. Is there any reason why we should not on steep surfaces ? 

A. I think there is ever}' reason why we should. 

Q. Would not that prevent the roof boarding from being roasted into 
flames across the street? 

A. I think it would. There is hardly an}^ better non-conductor than 
mortar made with plaster of Paris. 

Q. Does not plaster of Paris contain a great deal of water, and when 
it is heated does it not give out water? 

A. Yes, sir, it has a great affinity for moisture. It does not throw 
off the material either. 

Q. Plaster of Paris and all mortars contain a good deal of water in a 
solid form, and the}^ give that water off when heated? 

A. Yes, sir, and I tliink plaster of Paris is rather slower in giving off 
water than the common cements. It is used in Paris for filling up 



634 

floors and filling in partitions and la3'ing roof slates. In drawing a bill 
now there are many things tliat would occur, that did not occur then ; 
of course, the bill must be crude. It is difficult to draw a bill, taking 
foreign bills as the basis, for a state of society which is on an entirely 
different political l)asis. 

Q. And the forms of construction are different here? 

A. Yes, sir, and the materials are different. 

Adjourned. 



635 



TWENTY-FOURTH DAT. 

Saturday, January 11th, 

GEN. HENRY W. BENHAM, sivorn. 

Q. (By Mr. Eussell.) At what time did yon get to the scene of the 
great fire, wliat time of night? 

A. It was not far from four o'clock, as I recollect. Soon after four. 

Q. Where did you go first, — to the City Hall? 

A. I went to the City Hall. 

Q. Will you state in 3'our own way what took place there? 

A. I went to the City Hall, soon after four o'clock, and saw Mayor 
Gaston, and offered any service that I could render in the way of sugges- 
tion or of action. Is it desired that I should go through the detail of all 
I did ? It will take a good deal of time to give it in detail. 

Q. Give the important parts of it. We will leave that to your judg- 
ment. 

A. Soon afterwards, nothing being asked of me, I proposed to the 
Mayor that the garrisons at the forts should be sent for, off'ering to write 
for them if he approved. I did write a note to the Commandant of each 
fort, and also to the Captain of my steamer at the wharf to fire up imme- 
diately, and suggested that some gentleman should carry the notes, and 
also get a steamer in case mine could not be fired up soon enough. Mr. 
Atkinson offered to take one, and some other gentleman whom I didn't 
know (I understood he was Assistant City Solicitor, I don't know his 
name), took the other. I don't know whether it is important, but I 
would say that as I was writing the notes for the troops. Collector Rus- 
sell asked me about the amount of powder necessary for blowing up 
buildings, and I replied very hurriedly from my haste to write the notes. 
I did not give my advice as fully as I might, only mentioning one hun- 
dred, one hundred and fifty or two hundred pounds, according to the 
character of the building. 

Q. Did you have occasion to change that opinion? 

A. Not from the intention that I had at the time, I will say, which 
was, to use the powder effectually, In'compressingor tamping it. I would 
mention in explanation, as to using larger charges, that where you do 
not compress them, more powder is necessary to have the same effect. And 
after waiting a few minutes I went out and reconnoitred round the fire to 
the northward, and came back and said to the Mayor that I recommended 
the mining at once of the " Evening Gazette" office (in Congress street, 
I think it was), and also, wimediatehj, the Currier & Trott building, or the 
" Transcript " office ; that they should be mined, but not then blown up, 
as yet. Nothing was done, that 'I know of, at that moment. I went, 
soon after, up to the dome of the City Hall, and after w'aitiug a few miu- 



636 

ntes, being there five or ten mimites, I felt convinced the "Transcript" 
office was on fire, or the buihling in the rear of it, I came down imme- 
diately to tlie IMayor, and said I was ]n-epared to recommend in the 
strongest manner that tliat bnihling slioidd be blown np at once. 

Q. Wiien you first proposed to mine it, did you indicate at what time it 
should be blovvn up? 

A. No, sir, I did not indicate the time. I said they would have to 
blow it up very soon though. I recommended it should be mined to be 
blown up when necessary, but I said, " You will soon have to blow it 
lip." " I recommend it to be mined at once," was the expression I 
used. 

I gave the advice urgently to immediately blow up the " Transcript " 
building, and the Mayor crossed the room and went out, as I understood, 
to give the directions, and as he did so, I reminded him of my suggestion 
about the " Gazette " otlice ; whether he ordered that or not, I don't 
know. 

Q. Do you know what he went out for? 

A. I understood him to be going out to give, and understood that he 
did give, the directions to mine the Currier & Trott building, on the cor- 
ner of Milk and Washington ; soon after that, Mr. Alkinsou (it was still 
before light, as I recollect) asked me if I would go out, and, as I under- 
stood him, direct, or take action towards staying the confiagration, and 
I answered that I would with great pleasure, if I had authority to act. 

Q. What followed that? 

A. He said he would apply for authority for me immediately, and at 
once proposed to the Maj-or that I should be invested with authority to 
act in staying the conflagration. 

Q. What was done then? 

A. The Mayor hesitated, or appeared to hesitate, and slowly replied, 
" I am afraid of a conflict of authority with Mr. Damiell." Mr. Atkin- 
son was still there, and urged further, or spoke further in relation to it, 
and on the Mayor's repeating that expression, I saiil, " Mr. Gaston, as 
the citizens should select those who should have the charge of tueir 
property, I will say to you, if Mr. Damrell and myself differ in opinion, 
his opinion shall be carried out. Do you wish me, when I am not with 
him, or near him, to use my best judgment in the matter? " His reply, 
as I understood him distinctly, was, that he did so wish. I then went 
out with Mr. Atkinson and searched for Mr. Damrell in Congress street, 
I think in Devonshire and Congress streets, but I found there instead, 
Mr. Carpenter, and whenever we met we acted in entire accord after 
that, both Mr. Carpenter and myself. 

Q. Did j-ou act with any one besides Mr. Carpenter? 

A. No, sir. I do not recollect that I acted with any one that I under- 
stood had the same authority that he or I had. He appeared to have 
authority to act. I don't recollect of acting with any other person, but 
I generally gave the dii-ections that seemed to me best, alone, on my own 
authority ; for in passing backwards and forwards four or five times 
from Congress street to Kilby street and back again, seeking for Mr. 
Damrell, I never was able to find, and did not see him until about eleven 
o'clock that day. 

Q. On whose authority did Mr. Carpenter act, — the Mayor's or Chief's ? 



637 • 

A. I don't know, but I understood the Maj^or's. I did not understand 
that any one else had the supreme right to give authority until 
about eleven to twelve o'clock that day, except the Mayor. I mean to 
say, I supposed that no one had supreme authority except the Mayor. 
I supposed he had supreme authority. 

Q. And then j'ou learned he had not? 

A. Yes, s'v\ I had been previously requested to remain opposite 
number 40 State street, aud told that Mr. Gaston and Mr. Dauii-elL 
would see me there. Mr. Gaston came first, and then told me that he 
had not the authority to order tlie destruction of buildings ; that no one 
had it but Mr. Danirell, or, in his absence, the two senior magistrates 
present. I did not question him about it, or mention that he liad given 
the authority to me, because ray impression at the time was, that he had 
ascertained this power since the time of my leaving him. 

Q. Did he say so? 
. A. No, sir, he did not. I had the Impression so fully upon ray mind that 
I did not question him about it. Ordinarily I should have asked him, 
" Did I not understand you that j'ou had the authority when 3'ou gave 
it to me?" Ordinarily I should do that, but I was under the impression 
that he had learned it within this time. I told him briefly what I had tried 
to do, and especially' that I had tried to find Mr. Dannell, and made the 
suggestion that it would be ver^' important if Mr. DaiDieli ;;t.>l' a posi- 
tion at the lower eastern balcony of the Old State House, and I oflfered to 
Mr. Gaston to go there with him, and remain there, and make suggestions, 
or act, as they might wish. Soon after this, Mr. Damrell came to me, 
accompanied by a young lawyer by the name of Barry, who had offered 
his assistance previously, and wlio I suspect, but do not know, asked 
him to come to me. Would you like the conversation that then ensued? 

Mr. Russell. — We should like to have that conversation. 

Witness. — Mr. Damrell came up and said, " AVell, sir, what do you 
want?" His manner appeared somewhat excited or irritated. I an- 
swered him, and I took especial pains to answer courteously, " To aid 
you in any manner. Mr. Damrell, b^' suggestion or actions," He said, 
" Well, what do you suggest? " I replied, " I suggest the mining of the 
eellarof the Bo3iston Insurance Co., the poorest bull ing, direcll^^ op[)o- 
site us, which will give the l)est entrance into that block ; ami round 
the corner, back of the New P.ngland Bank, the eellarof the wing under 
Mr. Skillings' office should be mined." He said, "Well, you know you 
must have a very careful man at each of those places." My answer 
was, " I have not those men, Mr. Dann-ell. You have them, I suppose." 
He said, " Wiiere is your powder?" 

A gentleman had just told me there was some at 80 State street, and I 
knew Iheie were two tons on board of my boat which I had sent for 
from Fort Independence, and I said, " There is powder at 80 Slate 
street, I am told." He said, turning to cross the street and looking over 
his shoulder, " Well, bring on your powder." I soon saw him, appa- 
rently engaged in fixing a ladder in the third story of the building 
opposite, west of the Boyston Insurance Co. I said to Dr. Nichols, 
who was standing near me, " I will not mine those buildings without his 
written authority." Dr. Nichols said, " I will go and get it for yon." I 
had understood that I had the authority to do so, by his saying, '■ Bring 



638 

on your powder," but, to be doubly sure, I made that remark, and Dr. 
Kichols went over, and returned in a few minutes. I will say before 
that, that I said to him, " Please get his authority on separate cards for 
each place, stating the building with the amount of powder that he wishes 
used." He came back in five minutes or more, saying, " He 
says he will not do it." I then said, " I am powerless of 
course," and I could not act further. I then went around, and 
reconnoitred the fire from Congress up to Devonshire street, and 
I came to the conclusion that it was then so far under control that 
no more buildings would need to be blown up. A few minutes after that 
Alderman Jenks (as I was told he was) came to where I was, and I was 
told that Mr, Damrell had given him authority to destroy buildings. He 
came to me, or where I was, and I said, " I have been examining the fire, 
and, as it is now, I feel that I can say I would not advise that any 
more buildings should be blown up, unless there is some change of wind. 
I think you will not need to destroy any more of the buildings." That 
is about the sum of what I said to him. 

Q. Did you at any time send message to Mr. Damrell that you would 
" blow up State street, Damrell or no Damrell," or any words to that 
efi"ect? 

A. No, sir. I never heard such words used by any one before. I do 
not know whether it is of importance enough to mention, but I will say 
in regard to number 40 State street, that early in the morning it occurred 
to me as of the first importance that that building should be protec- 
ted. I regarded it as the most important point for the people of New 
England. The immense amount of money there, I considered was of 
more importance to the people than the government money, and I asked 
them to open the door, and then said to the persons at the door, " There 
will soon be some regular troops passing up, and I want you to call upon 
the first officer that comes up and ask him for a non-commissioned officer 
and four or six men to guard your door." I watched for the troops as 
they came, and requested Lieut. Whistler, and afterwards M-ajor Rawles, 
to send a guard there, which was done previous. And now as to your in- 
quiry, I would say, that about ten or eleven o'clock, as I was passing 
there, the people at 40 called upon me, as I was passing, to blow up 
the whole of the opposite side. " If you don't blow that up," they said, 
" it will catch on this side of State street, and burn to the North end." 
I said, " 1 will do it ;" but. I looked out for the weakest buildings on 
that block, and I then ordered those two already mentioned to be 
mined ready to be blown up ; but I said, " That treasury building is a 
protecting Wall front of itself; " and it was in consequence of that con- 
viction that I had looked after and picked out tliose weak buildings, the 
Boylston Insurance Go's building, next to the Exchange and Mr. 
Skillings' office. 

When they called upon me to blow up that building opposite, I refused 
to doit, — the large building w^est of the Boylston Insurance office. 

Q. Did you send any message to Mr. Damrell? 

A. No, sir, not of any kind. I am positive I never sent a message to 
Mr. Damrell, except this last request by Dr. Nichols, for written authority 
to blow up those two buildings. 

Q. Was anything done towards mining those buildings? 



639 

A. Not by me, after the message to Mr. Damrell. There had been 
this much done, previously, however ; after ordering powder into differ- 
ent buildings in Kilb_y street, I was standing with ^Ir. Atkinson, per- 
haps somewhere near ten o'clock, at Central street, looking towards No. 
19, near tiie Post Office, and the corner south was then on fire, the 
corner of the block on Lindall street, I think, and I said to Mr. Atkin- 
son, " Those buildings should be mined at once, those two old buildings." 
He said, " If you say so, I will have it done." I said, ''Yes, have them 
mined ;" I think I said, "with two or three hundred pounds of powder," 
Afterwards, after selecting the Skillings building, I ordered two hundred 
pounds into the cellar, I think, and then I went away, and tried to find 
Mr. Damrell, to inform him, and when T came back I found the powder 
had been brought out of No. 19, and found the door of Mr. Skillings, 
which had been open, was shut, and found two policemen standing by 
the kegs of powder, which they said Alderman WooUey had forbidden to 
be put in there. I said, finally, " Open the doors and put this in." The 
Alderman came up and forbade it, and I said, " He is one of the magis- 
trates, and I cannot give any further orders without written authorit3\" 
This occurred after having ordered powder into several buildings.. In 
some cases it was exploded ; in other cases, it was ordered out ; in these 
one or two cases by Alderman Woolley, as I was told. The Alderman 
gave as a reason that the people were knocking the powder barrels to 
pieces and scattering it on the floor. I told him I had, in every way I 
could, prohibited that, and had told them to have a single cask broken, 
but only at the right moment, and the fuse applied. 1 might mention 
this instance : The day after, as some gentlemen at the Post Office were 
removing the money, one of them said, '• I had five casks broken in a 
building, and a fuse put in each." I asked the question, " How many 
sparks does it take to blow up a powder magazine ? " He said, " I never 
thought of that." 

Q. Who was that gentleman? 

A. I don't know his name. He must have belonged either to the Post 
Office or the Treasur}'. 

Q. It was not General Burt? 

A. No, sir, it was a Mr. Bailey, or Bradley, or some such name, as far 
as I could learn. He was a man apparently attached to the Treasur^^, 
or the Post Office. 

Q. What was the length of the fuse used that night? 

A. I do not know. In sending down for the garrisons to come up, I 
requested the officers to bring the ordnance sergeants with fuses. I might 
mention an instance of a building that was mined, that was absoluteh'^ on 
fire, I may sa}', or the one adjacent to it, on the corner of Kilby and 
Water streets. Orders were given two or three times to mine it, but the 
'foreman of the engine would not do it. He said, " That building is too 
good to blow up." Finally it was mined, and a man, a German, I think 
he was, said that he put in an eighteen-minute fuse. I said, " You can 
burn a whole block in eighteen minutes ; you don't want more than a five 
minutes' fuse." 

Q. Was he a soldier? 

A. No, sir, he was a citizen, and of Teutonic extraction, as I judge. 
I had a very urgent contest with one very earnest person, who was as 



640 

fully convinced he wns right as I was, who wanted to mine in the second 
stories. He said, " I liave blown up half-a-(lozen buiMini>s in this way." 
I said, "Put it in the cellar; then it will lift the building up, and drop 
everything down and bring the walls on top of it." I could not get hiui 
to do it, and finally I said, "Get your powder in in some way, at any 
rate ; it must do some good." Those were the people I had to act witli, 
so you ma}^ judge how efficient they were. He was determined to blow 
from the second story. That will blow it in every direction, while fifty 
pounds, weighted down under an arch in the cellar, will lift the building 
up, drop everything down, and the volume of air rushing down and in, 
will generally bring the walls on top of it, and it will be protected from 
the fire; aud weeks after, instead of burning and smouldering, it is cold, 
and the property under it is not destroyed, although the boxes or furni- 
ture may be broken. 

Q. How large charges were used that night? 

A. I first oudered one to two hundred pounds, urging them to weight 
it down or stancheon it down. Afterwards, when I found they didn't do 
that, I told thera they might double that, — three or four hunilred pounds, 
— but what was done I can't say, because I had no trained subordinates. " 
I only know that those were the directions I gave. 

Q. What successful explosions did you see ; I mean explosions that 
were successful in staying the flames? 

A. I don't know that I could specify the different ones, more than to 
say that the Currier & Trott explosion was successful. I vvas witli the 
Mayor at the time, and in a few minutes some one came in and said it 
had been exploded, but only with partial success ; but I have been told 
it had complete success, for it broke the burning timl)ers in the " Tran- 
script" building and droi)ped them down and put the fire out, while the 
walls sheltered the Old South. Another building was the one where I 
had the discussion with this man, — the corner of Lindall and Kill)y 
streets. I think that aided a great deal in preventing it from getting to 
the one that Mr. Atkinson mined under my direction, and where Mr. 
Woolley had the powder taken out. Then there were one or two in Conl 
gress street. I ordered powder in there, and was running down Liudal- 
street when the explosion occurred. I did not go back soon enough to 
see what the effect was. I ordered two or three mined in Congress 
street, and I ordered mining in seven places in Kilby street, but as Idi(i 
not remain to witness the explosions, I cannot speak definitely about 
them. 

Q. Was the building where this interview with Mr. Woolley took place 
burned ? 

A. The interview with Mr. Woolley took place right in front of Mr. 
Skillings' office, on Kilby street and that, was not harmed. 

Q. The powder was removed from Skillings' office? 

A, I think so eventually, sir, as he would not allow it to go in. He 
also had the powder removed, as I understood, from this No. 19 to the 
Post-Office doorway in Kilby street. There were there two old buildings, 
and I said if they could find an opening in the wall of the cellar be- 
tween the two buildings, to put it in this opening. But I ordered it not to 
be fired until the flames had led round from the granite I)uilding south 
into these ; that was my theory, generally not to have a mine sprung until 



641 

« 

the nest building was on fire. My oidcrs were that the mine under 
Skillinos' office was not to be exploded until the Shoe & Leather Bank 
building had gone, and the flames had lapped round it. 

Q. Should you have acted on that theory if you had had supreme 
control ? 

A. If I had had supreme control, I would have mined for blocks around 
or beyond the fire ; but I would not have exploded mines until we needed 
and could utilize the space which the powder makes. 

Q. You would not have gone to a distance and made a break? 

A. No, sir, I would not do that, for you cannot use the space to put the 
fire out or bring water until the fire is next adjacent. One of the most 
prominent gentlemen of the city said to me, "I would have blown up 
between Spring Lane and Water street hours ago." I said, ''No, I would 
mine it, but not blow it up yet." That I think was the radical ditTereuce 
between my opinions and those of very many intelligent gentlemen. 

Q. There was nothing off'ensive in Mr. Woolley's manner? 

A. No, sir. He was earnest, but not offensive to me. I did not so 
take it. I felt he was earnest about it, and 1 was not offended. It was 
true I felt that I knew more about the use of powder, but I didn't tell him 
so. 
' Q. He didn't want to use it at all? 

A. He said, as I understood him, that he didn't want to use it, and 
when I was told that he had been a fireman, I could realize that feeling, 
because I could see how the firemen would be afraid of the use of powder 
bj' persons not accustomed to its use. I think if I had trained men who 
would obey me, to use powder as my feeling was, the firemen would wish 
it used. I would clear away the firemen before I set the fuse, as well as 
all others near. 

Q. Was the AYebster Bank building mined that night, — the corner of 
Congress and State ; that tall freestone buildjng? 

A. I was told that Damrell mined it. It never was mined by any 
order of mine, because I didn't consider it necessary to mine that build- 
ing or the other next east — those two large fine buildings. I said, 
" There is no use to mine those ; " but the cheap buildings I was in favor 
of mining. By mining those it would give the whole side of the 
Treasury building, and open the space into the return passage-way in 
the rear. I wanted to strike into the heart without breaking the front 
surface of the block. 

Q. Did 3^ou act in concert with Gen. Burt that night? 

A. No, sir, I do not recollect of seeing him that night. I have not 
seen him often enough, so directly as to know him readily in the night. 

Q. In case of another great conflagration, should you recommend the 
use of explosives ? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Should you use powder or some other? 

A. We know better how to manage powder; there is so much danger 
in gh'cerine, and so few that are experienced in the use of it. I would 
not have either used b3^ persons unfamiliar with them. If miners from 
Hoosac Tunnel could be brought with their explosives, that might be 
well, but without experience, I think powder is better understood and 
could be safer used, and is sufficiently eflfective. I believe 100 lbs. of 
41 



642 

powder properly placed in the Court House would^tear a hole up through 
the building. 

Q. Is there auy other subject or any other fact to which you wish to 
call our attention? 

A. I don't think of any. There is one point to which perhaps I havu 
already referred sufficiently. I think in the future, as to the controlling 
head, the person with the full power to direct, that he should be an 
architectural engineer, with a knowledge of the construction of buildings, 
and of the strength of materials, and that it would be of the utmost 
importance that he should in time of fires have a position accessible and 
known to all, like a general on a battle-field. If a general has not a 
fixed position on the battle-field, he is of very little use. I look upon 
the position of the Chief Engineer as similar to that, and instead of 
being in the fire, or doing a private's dut}^ as I might say, or a fireman's 
duty, I think it is of the first importance that he should have a place 
where cA'ery foreman of an engine and everj'^ magistrate or other person 
could know where to go to consult him. If the fire was near the City 
Hall, he might have his head-quarters there. He might, of course, 
occasionally make a personal reconnoissance, but in that case he should 
have a person in his position to inform those who came for consultation 
or directions. On the march I alwa3"s had a fixed position, about one- 
third of the way from the head of the column usuallj', and I never left 
it without leaving an Adjutant General to represent me, — as also in 
battle a fixed position when possible. 

Q. Have you any other suggestions to make? 

A. I don't think of any, unless this suggestion ; that there should not 
be another month that your Fire Department should be without some 
few men added to it, trained in the use theoretically, at least, of explo- 
sives ; either teaching those that are in it, taking some of the most in- 
telligent, or adding others to it. 

They may not be needed more than once in ten or twenty years, but 
the salary of a person for ten years is nothing to the good that a single 
M^ord may do, a single five minutes of instruction, at such a time. My 
idea is, there should be anywhere from three to eight or ten persons 
trained theoretically as soon as possible, and connected with the Fire 
Department of every large city. 

Q. Do you know anything of the blowing oflT the roof of the Mer- 
chants' Exchange? 

A. I do not. I spoke of mining that building. I knew of the liquor 
store of Robinson's being directly in the rear, and I considered that 
very dangerous, — as dangerous almost as a magazine. There is another 
thing I might mention to object to, if you think it worth while, and that 
is the practice of knocking in the heads of barrels of spirits or oil. Let 
them stay until the last minute, and not scatter them to the fire. That 
was done repeatedly, I was told. Barrels of oil and spirits were rolled 
out and the heads knocked in. I should judge it was a very important 
thing that people should be instructed not to scatter the means of spread | 
ing the fire. As Sherman said about Columbia, they cut open the bales 
of cotton and scattered and threw them into the trees. It is charged 
that General Sherman burned Columbia, but when I saw him at City 
Point he said he didn't ; that the rebels cut open the bales of cotton and 



643 

set them on fire and scattered them on the trees through the city, and 
destroyed it in that way ; and afterwards I met an ambulance of gener- 
als, — Lee, Ewell, Wise and others were among them, — when they 
were coming down as prisoners, and they told me that Wade Hampton 
filed his own house at Columbia, which is an additional proof of what 
Siierman said. That was the reason of the complete destruction of Co- 
lumbia, and I look upon knocking in the heads of barrels of spirits and 
oil as a similar thing. 



GEORGE W. BOYNTON, sivorn. 

Q. (By Mr, Russell.) What is your position? 

A. I was appointed Chief Constable of the Commonwealth Nov. 20. 

Q. Will you state what connection 3'ou had with the great fire? 

A. There was no Chief on Nov. 9Lh. I arrived Nov. lOlh, and all the 
officers in the vicinit}'' were here, assisting in recovering goods. On 
Monday, all the officers in the State were called to Boston, and were 
divided into tAvo details. I had charge of one detail. Capt. A. J. 
Gearey had charge of the other. When the fire was over, many mer- 
chants who had lost property, and who had money and other valuables 
in the ruins, asked for details of officers, and they were furnished. 

Mr. Savage, Chief of Boston Police, issued orders to close liquor 
shops and beer shops. He issued a similar order as to liquor shops, 
and requested beer shops to close. Almost all complied with the order 
and the request, — all except some low places. 

Other officers were detailed to watch various districts, with orders to 
arrest all persons violating the liquor law. They were relieved, and 
kept on duty day and night. The first day or two, they arrested thirty 
oi' forty, who were fined in the Municipal Court. After four or five days, 
we had occasion to arrest very few. When the excitement of the fire 
had abated, we procured search-warrants and recovered a large amount 
of stolen goods. 

The city was as free from roughs as it usually is, and was as or- 
derly as I ever knew it throughout the thirteen or fourteen days, 
and while our force was on duty. Our force amounts to one hundred 
men. 

JAMES R. GARRET, sioorn. 

Q. (By Mr. Russell.) What position did you bold on Nov. 9th? 

A. I was Mayor's clerk. 

Q. State what took place at City Ilall in relation to blowing up build- 
ings that came within 3'our knowledge. 

A. Gen. Benham came in. After some conversation, he requested the 
Mayor to give him authority' to blow up buildings. The Mayor said he 
had no po\ver to do so, but asked him to give the Engiiieers the benefit 
of his experience. 

About eight or nine A. M. Sunday, a young man came with a message 
from Gen. Burt, saying that the Chief Engineer had stopped him and 



644 

Benham from blowing up buildings, and asked hira to overrule the Chief. 
The Mayor replied that he had not the power, but that it belonged to 
the Cliief Engineer, and that it would make great confusion, if he, being 
at the City Hall, should give orders in conllict with the Chief. About 
10 A. M. Gen. Burt in person repeated the complaint, and received a like 
answer. 

Q. Did you hear the Mayor give any one authority to blow up 
buildings ? 

A. I was there all the time with the Mayor, and heard him give no 
one authority to blow up buildings. Gen. Benham repeated his request, 
and urged that he might receive authority from the Mayor, but was re- 
peatedly refused. 



APPENDIX TO ETIDENCE 



6U 



Statement (exact and estimated) of the several Companies, in relation to the time it 
took for them to get to the Fire on Saturday, November dth, 1872, as j^er letters 
on file. 



Company. 


Location. 


Time. 


Letters signed by 


Engine No 


1. 


Cor. Fourth & Dorch. sts., 8. B. 


12 m. 


John Ray. Engineer. 




2. 


Fourth, bet. L and K sts., S. B. 


2.5 m. 


Geo. 0. Twiss, '• 




3. 


WaHhington, near Dover. 


8 or 10 m. 


T. Hutchings, " 




4. 


Brattle square. 


6 or 7 m. 


Dexter R. Bearing, " 




5. 


Marion street, E. B. 


20 or 25 m. 


Josiah S. Batlis, " 




6. 


Wall street. 


10 m. 


J. C. Traver, " 




7, 


East street. 


IJm. 


Charles Riley, " 




8. 


Salem street. 


8 m. 


B. 8. Flanders, " 




9. 


Paris street, E. B. 


20 m. 


Geo. W. Brown, " 




10. 


Mt. Vernon and River streets. 


12 or 15 m. 


Gilman Tyng, '• 




11. 


Sumner street, E. B. 


20 m. 


W. H. Stiirtevant, " 




12. 


Warren & Dudley sts.. Highlands. 


20 m. 


James T. Cole, '' 




13. 


Cabot street. Highlands. 








14. 


Centre street. Highlands. 


25 m. 


Thomas Nannery, " 




15. 


Broadway Extension. 8. B. 


ft m. 


David E. Gilman, 




16. 


Temple street, Ward 16. 


55 m. 


Eugene A. Freeman, •' 




17. 


Meeting House Hill. Ward 16. 


30 m. 


Chas. C. Lane, « 




18. 


Harvard street, Wai'd 16. 


55 m. 


Lewis Briggs, '' 




19. 


Norfolk street. Ward 16. 


Ih. 30 m. 


E. B. Hebard, " 




20. 


Walnut street. Ward 16. 


35 m. 


Franklin Muzzy, " 




21. 


Boston street, Ward 16. 


20 m. 


J. R. Gilbert. " 


Hose " 


1. 


Salem street. 


8i m. 


A.L.Pearson, Driver. 


« (f 


2. 


Hudson street. 


Z\ m. 


Frank Walker, 


a <i 


3. 


North Grove street. 


15 m. 


H. Ely. 


i( (1 


4. 


Northampton street. 


12 m. 


B. F. Thayer, " 


« (( 


5. 


Shawmut avenue, near Canton. 


10 ra. 


Silas Lovell, " 


i( <( 


6. 


391 Chelsea street. E. B. 


15 m. 


Charles Brooks, " 


(( (I 


7. 


Tremont streets, Highlands. 


15 m. 


Geo. W. Stimpson. " 


(( <( 


8. 


Church street. 


8 m. 


William Blake, " 


C( (( 


9. 


B street. South Boston. 


8 m. 


P. W. Gowen. " 


<( i< 


10. 


Dorchester St., Wash. Village. 


12 m. 


A.P.Hawkins, " 


Hook and Ladder No. 1. 


Warren square. 


6 m. 


Geo. W. Thompson, " 


" " 


'■ 2. 


Sumner and Orleans sts.. E. B. 


10 m. 


J. E. Thayer, " 


(( a 


" « 3. 


Harr. ave., cor. Wareham street. 


8ra. 


J. B. Prescott, " 


(( (t 


" " 4. 


Eustis street. Highlands. 


15 m. 


J. jAI. Huggins. Dr'wer. pro tern 


" "' 


" " 6. 


Fourth and Dorch sts., S. B. 


11 m. 


B. F. Donnell, Driver. 


i( <> 


" " 6. 


Temple street. Ward 16. 


Not taken 


David S. Black, 


(( a 


" " 7. 


Meeting House Hill, Ward 16. 


30 m. 


Jason Gordon. '• 


Extinguisher " 1. 


North Uro\ e street. 


7 m. 


Thos. Merrilt. Driver, pro tern 




" 2. 


Wareham street, Harrison ave. 


8 m. 


W. A. Gaylord, Driver. 



Steam Tug "Louis Osborn," from East Boston, having Blake's Fire Pump. 14-inch 
steam cylinder and 8-inch water cylinder, received orders at 9 : 30 o'clock, P. M., of 
Saturday, Nov. 9th, to proceed to the Hartford & Erie Bridge, and stay the fire at 
that point. The messenger was sent by the Chief Engineer, at 8 : 45 o'clock, P. M., 
and they received it at their wharf in East Boston, at the above time. 



647 



Statement of the different Companies, in relation to the time it tooh to get their ap- 
paratus to the " State Street Block Fire, Nov. ISth," atid to " Rand ^- Avery^s 
Fire, Nov. 20th," horses used. 



Companies. 




Nov. 18. 


Nov. 20. 


Engine Co. No. 1. 




20 m. 


20 m. 


« u .. 2. 




20 m. 


20 m. 


« « u 2. 




14 m. 


14 m. 


« a <i 4_ 




4 m. 




•' " « 5! 




15 m. 


15 m. 


" " « 6. 








u « u 7. 




9 m. 


10 m. 


" « " 8. 




31m. 


3 m. 


" " " 9. 




14 m. 


18 m. 


u « <. 10. 








« « .i 11 




25 m. 


20 m. 


« " " 12. 




25 m. 


25 m. 


« « " 13. 




20 m. 


25 m. 


u a u j4 




20 m. 


20 m. 


«' " " 15'. 




15 m. 


15 m. 


« " " 16. 




44 m. 


48 m. 


«' « " 17. 




40 ra. 


35 m. 


" " " 18. 




40 m. 


40 m. 


" " " 19. 




1 hour, 5 m. 


55 m. 


« « " 20. 




45 m. 


35 m. 


« u u 21. 






17 m. 


Hose Co. No. 1. 




4 m. 


31m. 


" " 2. 




10 m. 


8 m. 


" " 3. 




10 m. 


5 m. 


" " 4. 




20 m. 


18 m. 


" « 5. 




17 m. 


15 m. 


" " 6. 




■w't to ferry. 


w't to ferrj' 


" " 7. 




20 m. 


25 m. 


« " 8. 








" " 9. 




17 m. 


12 m. 


« « 10. 




14 m. 


15 m. 


Hook and Ladder No 


1. 


5 m. 


3 or 4 m. 


•' •< " •' 


2. 


15 m. 


20 m. 


« (( « a 


3. 


17 m. 


12 m. 


<( « (t (( 


4. 


25 m. 


20 m. 


« (C (( (1 


5. 


20 m. 


25 m. 


K <( ■< <( 


6. 


50 m. 


47 m. 


(( i( (1 (i 


7. 


1 




Extinguisher Corps, 


l.'lOm. 


5 m. 


•' " 


2 


17 m. 


15 m. 



Horses used at the fire of Nov. 9th and 10th. 

Horses used at the fire of Nov. 9th and 10th. 

T. Hutchings, Engineer. 

Were called out before the alarm was sounded. 

J. 8. Battis, Engineer. 

Was in service on the burnt district of Nov. 9th. 

Charles Riley, Engineer, 

B. S. Flanders, " 

Geo. W. Brown, " 

W. H. Sturtevant, " 
J. T. Cole. " 

Francis Swift, " 

Horses used at the fire of Nov. 9th and 10th. 

D. E. Oilman, Engineer. 

Used horses at the fire of Nov. 9th and 10th. 

Charles C. Lane. Engineer. 

Letter signed by Lewis Briggs, Engineer. 

E. B. Hebard, Engineer. 

Horses were used at the fire of Nov. 9th and 10th. 
J. R. Gilbert, Engineer. 
A. L. Pearson, Driver. 

F. Walker, " 
Thomas Merritt, '' pro tern. 
Benj. F. Thayer, " 

Silas Lovell, " 

Horse used at the fire of Nov. 9th and 10th. 

George W. Stimpson, Driver. 

T. W. Gowen, the driver, states that it took as 

long as it would by hand. 
Horse used at the fire of Nov. 9th. 
Gaorge W. Thompson, Driver. 
J. E. Thayer, " 

J. B. Prescott, " 

J. M. Huggins, " pro tern. 

Horses used at the fire of Nov. 9th. 
David 8. Black, Driver. 
Did not take the time. 
Charles E. Wilson, Driver. 
W. A. Gaylord, " 



648 



Statement of the number of Engines, Hose, and ITook Jf Ladder, Carriages, with 
the number of Men a)id amount of Hose that attended the great Fire of Nov. dth, 
from out of town. 









Hose 


Hook ^c Lad- 




Feet 


Chief Engineer. 


City or Town. 


Engines. 


Com- 


der Com- 


Men. 


of 








panies. 
2 


panies. 
1 


75 


Hose. 


P. H. Raymond .... 


Cambridge, Mass. 


3 


1,500 


Wm.E. Delano .... 


Charlestown, " 


2 


3 





60 


2,000 


Samuel Hutcliins . . . 


Chelsea, " 


1 


2 





85 


1,000 


W. W. Kimball .... 


Lynn, " 


2 


2 





27 


1.400 


D. B. Lord 


Salem, " 


2 

1 

1 (hand) 


1 
1 
1 





1 


67 
11 
69 


2,000 


Luther Ladd 


Lawrence, *' 


700 


Alfred Keiirick.jr. . . 


Brookline, " 


1,100 


C. A. Belfurd 


W. Roxbury, " 


2 


1 





21 


1,200 


James K. Hopkins . . 


8omerville, " 


1 


3 





60 


1.200 


A. D. Drew 


Watertown, " 


1 


1 





21 


800 


R. M. l^ucas 


Newton. " 


2 


2 





51 


1.7.50 


S. E. Combs 


Worcester, " 


2 


3 





60 


3.800 


Thomas J. Borden . . 


Fall River, " 


2 


4 





60 


2.200 


Onslow Gilmore . . . 


Stonehara, " 


1 


1 





18 


850 


T. W. Hough 


Maiden, " 


1 


2 





54 


2,000 


John R. Morton .... 


Melrose, " 


2 


1 





15 


400 


Benj. H. yumner . . . 


Medford, " 


1 


2 





40 


1,000 


Chas. H. Davis .... 


Wakefield, " 


2 (hand) 








88 


7.50 


Wm. H. Temple . . . 


Reading, " 


1 (hand) 


1 





105 


500 


A. H. Howland, jr. . . 


New Bedford, " 


1 


1 





26 


700 


Marshall Parks .... 


Waltham, •< 


1 


1 





14 


700 


Oliver K. Green .... 


Providence '' 


3 


3 





30 


1,700 


A. E. Hendrick .... 


New Haven, " 


1 


1 





22 


yoo 


Daniel A. Delamoy . . 


Norwich, " 


2 


3 





166 


2,300 


8. L. Marston 


Portsmouth, N. H. 


1 


1 





45 


1.100 


B.C.Kendall 


Manchester, •' 


2 


2 





63 


1.200 


( 


Biddefiird, Maine. 





2 





175 


3,000 




Started and got as far 
















( 


Portsmouth, N. H. 












A. J. Cumminga . . . 


Portland, 


1 


1 





12 


1,000 


E. G. Parrott. Com'dant 


Charlestown Navy Yard 


2 


2 


1 


81 


1,000 


T. T. 8. Laidley, " 


Watertown Arsenal, 


1 


2 





25 


1,100 


E. P. Davis, Chief Eng. 


Hyde Park, 


1 


1 





55 


1,200 



THE RICHARDS FIRE ESCAPE AND HOSE ELVATOR. 



This invention consists of a shaft put into or above tlie cornice of a 
bnililing. On this shaft is a (iruin, and on the drum, which is 12 inches 
in (ii:iincter, is wound a pliable wire bidder, compo.sed of 15 wire cables 
^-inch in diameter. The steps are composed of flat band-iron ^-inch 
thick, 1^ inch wide and 20 inchs long. Insiileof the ladder drum, sn.spend- 
ed from ihe shalt, is a sheave or pulley, through which passes a wire cable, 
one eiici having a hook and snatch-block, the other end a hook alone. Tliese 
hooks aie fastened to th<i boltom .step of the ladder. The hulder and 
hose elevator are wound up together by means of gearing upon the 
roof. After they are wound up entirely out of sight and protected from 
the weather, a brake is applieil, holding them in position. The brake is 
controlled from the sidewalk, in a box similar to the fire-alarm box, the 
same key fitting both. 

On discoveiy of a fire by a policeman or a fireman, the bo.x is unlocked, 
the lever pulled that releases the brake, and the ladder and hose elevator 
unroll and come to the ground, being ready t'ov use in Iroin twelve to 
tilteen seconds. The weight on the bottom of the ladder is sufficient to 
insuie its coming down. On reaching the ground, the ladder is secured 
firmly to eye-bolts in the pavement. On the arrival of the firemen they 



G49 



find everj'thiiig ready for work. Tiie firemen first go to the roof or any 
story b}' the ladder, the liooks of the hose elevator are leleased from the 
bottom step of the ladder, and to one of them is alttiehed the hose, while 
the other hook is fastened to the hose-cart. The horse is then driven 
otl, antl the hose rises to the desired height. The laborious work of ele- 
vating the hose by hand is entirely avoided. The ladders are always on 
hand, and can be made ready for use almost instantl}'. 

Tlie advantages of this plan are as follows : — 

The ladders are always available, and ma}' be ready for the firemen by 
the time they arrive upon the ground. 

The safety of the firemen is provided for beyond a doubt, as the machin- 
ery cannot fall until the walls fall, and the men need not fear as to their 
e.scape being cut off, as is the case when they are dependent on tiie stairs 
fur a retreat. With the present ladder system, firemen can neither as- 
cend to nor escape from the top of a high building. Give the firemen a 
feeling of security and a sure means of retreat, and they will stay at 
their work with a determination to do something. A ver}' important 
feature of this plan is, that it provides for the certain escape of the in- 
mates of the burning building. In a hotel, each room may be provided 
with a stout web, or leatiier strap with a ring sewed into it. By means 
of this, a timid person, invalid or child may be lowered to the ground 
w4eh perfect safety, simpl}' by fastening this strap about the chest and 
attaching tiie ring to the hose elevator. By the same process, valuable 
trunks, pianos and other heavy articles of furniture may be taken from 
the bSilding. 

The present system of fighting fire often compels the firemen to open 
the lower doors of the building to carry their hose up the stairs, in order 
that the streams of water may be directed upon the fire. This action 
has tlie sauic etfect on the fire as opening tlie register to a stove, giving 
an additional draught, and thus causing the fire to burn more fiercely. 
But by the proposed plan, the lower part of the building is kept entirely 
closed, as the tire is fought entirely from the outside. The water is ap- 
plied only where it is needed, and the destruction of goods by water is 
avoided. The firemen are enabled to go to the roof, and by opening the 
root they force the fire to burn directly up, and prevent its seeking the 
windows lor vent, setting the whole house on fire and catching adjoining 
buikbngs. 

The smoke is also allowed to pass out, which is the greatest enemy 
firemen have to contend with. 

The whole body of the water is thrown on to the fire, which is not the- 
case where it is thrown up from the street and only reaches the fire in the 
shape of a spray. The gieat waste of water is avoided, which is quite 
an item where the pipes are so small as they are in the ihickly-settled 
parts of Boston. A stream of water has been taken to the roof of an 
85-ft. building, by the Chicago Fii'e Department in \^ minutes' time. 

My plan in connection with my Fire Escape and Hose Elevator, for 
preventing general conflagrations, like those of Boston and Cliicago, is 
looked upon favorably by the leading firemen of the Unitetl States. It 
consists of my ladders and hose elevators being placed upon the highest 
and most exposed buildings throughout the city, as shown in sketch, and. 
marked with figures 1, 2, 3, etc. 



650 



20 





19 




18 




17 




16 



to 



1 




2 




3 




4 






5 




6 




7 




8 



M 



9 




10 




11 




12 





Suppose No. 1 to be the burning building, the ladder on No. 1 <to be 
used, the fire would likely be stopped, with the assistance my ladder 
would give the firemen. It' they were driven away, they could fall back 
and lower the ladders 2, 5, 19, 20, 21, which would enable them to take 
their hose to the roofs, and concentrate their streams upon the burning 
building, which would get the whole body of the water into it, instead of 
a spray, as if it were thrown from the street. A fire could not possibl}' 
get beyond the reach of the firemen where there is such a concentration 
of streams. If the city of Boston can sustain such a loss by fire on as calm 
a night as the 9th of November, surely something must be done to avert 
another such a calamity during the heavy winds and dry season. Another 
alarming thing is the small capacity of the water-pipes throughout the 
city. If a fire can be checked in its infancy, the pipes are large enough. 

HENRY A. RICHARDS, 

32 Aj)pIeton street, 
* Boston, Mass. 



LETTER FROM CHIEF ENGINEER OF FALL RIVER. 

Fall River, Dec. 13, 1872. 
Thos. Russell, Esq., Chairman : — 

Dear Sir, — Your telegram of 11th inst. came dul}' to hand, but my 
business engagements to-day are such that I am unable to comply witii 
your request. I presume your object is to make inquiries in relation to 



651 

the operations of the Fire Dejjartment, on the occasion of j-onr recent 
disastrous conflagration. — I will state briefly what knowledge [ have of 
the matter : — 

I did not reach j'our city until 5 o'clock, P. M. on Sunda}^, Nov. 10th, 
having been delayed several hours in procuring transportation, and there- 
fore know nothing of the affair previous to that hour. Immediately on 
arrival I reported to Mayor Gaston, at City Hall, tendering him the use 
of two steam fire-engines, four hose reels, with 2,200 feet of hose, and 
sixty men. On consultation with the Mayor — the fire then being 
apparently under control — it was deemed expedient to allow one of the 
steamers, — viz. : " Metacomet No. 3," — to return immediately to Fall 
Eiver, for which I made arrangements at once (retaining for use steamer 
"Niagara No. 4," all of the hose and nearly all of the men) and then 
returned to the City Hall, where I then found Chief Engineer Damrell, 
■who decided that we could best serve him by placing the steamer and 
hose reels in the house of your Steamer No. 7, and answering alarms, 
if anj'^ should be given. After seeing the apparatus properly stored in 
" No. 7's " house, I made the entire circuit of the " burnt district " twice. 
About three minutes after passing the corner of "Washington street, — 
on my way back to " Steamer 7's " house, being then about twelve o'clock, 
— an alarm was sounded from Box 42, on Winter street. I hastened 
to the engine house, where I found the men sitting quietl3^ having no 
knowledge of the alarm, as the gong on that house did not strike, notified 
them of the alarm, and proceeded rapidly a little in advance of them to the 
corner of Washington and Summer streets, where I found a sharp fire rag- 
ing in the buildings just east of one occupied by Shreve, Crump & Low. 
Deeming the rear or southerly side of the fire to be much the most criti- 
cal point, I ordered the engine stationed at the corner of Avon place, and 
laid two lines of hose to the rear of the fire and on top of the low or rear 
part of the stores where the fire originated ; laid a third line from a hy- 
drant, but with no effect, as there was not sufficient pressure to carry 
the stream twent}'^ feet beyond the pipe. Afterwards laid a third line of 
hose from j'our steamer "No. 7," the hose and pipe being managed 
throughout by our men. Also supplied your " No. 2 " with one line of 
hose. The two streams from our steamer " Niagara No. 4," and the 
stream from your " No. 7" maintained firmly at the original position, 
not moving more than fifty feet until the fire was nearly extinguished. 
All of them were powerful streams and did excellent service. The onl}' as- 
sistance required by us from your department was a supply of fuel. 
Soon after our engine was well at work, I ascertained from one of 30ur 
men the signal used by them to call for fuel, and then ordered our Engi- 
neer to sound it about once a minute until fuel was brought, which was 
soon done, and a good suppl}^ of excellent 5ualit3' was furnished bj'your 
department throughout the night. Feeling that the vital point was to 
prevent the fire from spreading southerly and easterly, — the buildings 
in those directions being closely connected to those on fire, while at the 
north and west it was bounded b}' streets, — I did not leave that side of 
the fire until after daylight Monda}^ morning, and therefore have no 
knowledge of the operations on the opposite side. One of your Assis 
tant Engineers was with us frequently, and Chief Damrell several times, 
and their directions, I think, were very judicious. I reported_ to Chief 



652 

Damrell ngain at the City Hall, about nine A. M. Monday' morning, when 
he relieved us from any further service, am] we returned liouie with the ap- 
paratus and men at noon on Moii(hiy. The only weak points that I 
observed, were the al)sence of any provision for giving the alarm at 
Steamer 7's house, and the very low pressure in your hydiants, rendering 
them worthless except for supplying engines. If you desire to asiv any 
questions which I am able to answer, I will answer them wiih jjleasure; 
Tuesday afternoon next, between two and five o'clock, is the only time 
during the next four or five days, when it will be possible for me to ap- 
pear before you, but I have no doubt the foregoing statement will an- 
swer your purpose. 

Regretting that I am unable to comply literally with your request to-day, 

Very respectfully yours, 
(Signed,) THOMAS J. BORDEN, 

Chief Eng. Fall River Fire Dep't. 



SELF-PROPELLING STEAM FIRE ENGINE. 

Manchester, N. H. Dec. 18th, 1872. 
Hon. Thos. Russell, Boston, Mass : — 

My Dear Sir: — Your letter, of Dec. 17th, to our Mr. Bean, is just 
received and handed to me for answer. 

The Self-Propelling Steam Fire Engine which was sent to Boston at 
the time of the great^ fire was built by the Amoskeag ManufacUuing 
Company, with one other of a similar pattern, in order to test the prin- 
ciple, and so far they seem to have been an entire success. The only ob- 
jection we have known made to them, is their supposed liability to 
frighien horses when moving through the streets in the daytime. To this 
objection we give no weight, as our observation here in the country has 
shown that the Self- Propelling P^ngines are no more likely to frighten 
horses than Steam Fire Engines drawn by horses with the fires burning, 
as is usual when drawn through the streets ; and as much the larger 
number of fires occur in the night, when tiiere are no horses in the streets, 
this objection cannot lie with any force against the use of the Self-Pro- 
peller. 

The mate to the one in Boston has been in use in the Fire Department 
of the City of New York since the First of November, and in one week 
run out to twenty-seven alarms and worked at eight fires. The Self- 
Propelling Engine there has proved a com[)lete success, and no objection 
has been raised to its use. The engine is kept always ready to run out, 
with steam at about twenty to thirty pounds' pressure, which is done with- 
out substantially any extra cost. The Fire Commissioners are now con- 
templating the purchase of several more. 

One has been ordered by the City of .San Francisco, on account of its 
success in New York, and the Detroit Fire Commissioners have, [ believe, 
decided to substitute a Selt-Propellorfor an engine which we are building 
for them. 



653 

The Self-Propeller in Boston is of the medinni size ; we have decided 
that it is preferable to make them of the largest size, as the trouble of 
moving tliem is not increaseil vt ry much by their weight. 

The Self-Propelling Steam Fire P^ngine costs from fifty-five hundred 
(S5,o00) to six thousand ($<J.OOO) dollars, being about $1,000 only more 
than the cost of the engine to l)e drawn by horses. 

I do not vvish you to understand that we consider this engine a pei'fect 
self-propelling machine, but so far as its use u[) to the present time goes, 
we consider it an entire success. An^' alterations that may be needed 
will be very slight. 

If desirable, our Mr. Bean will attend your Committee and give you 
verbally any information you may desire on the subject. 

Yours, very trul}', 

E. A. SHAW, 
Per Jamks A. Fracker. 



Report from officers of United States Signal Service, in Boston, to the 
Chief of the Signal Service of the Army, at Washington : — 

The wind at this station during the progress of the fire varied from 
nortii-vvest to north, with a velocity of five to nine miles per hour, the 
weatlier being cool, clear and pleasant. 

" On approaching the fire on the nortli, or windward side, as close as 
the heat would allow, tlie in-draught of air through the burning streets as- 
sumed the character of a brisk wind, probably sixteen or eighteen miles 
per hour, while the heat was so intense as to cause smoke, steam, etc., 
to be carried up in spirals to a great elevation. On the south, or lee 
side, the induced currents of air were very strong — probably thirty or 
thirty-five miles per hour, carrying the fire bodily to windward. This 
state of affairs appears the I'e verse of the Chicago fire, where the 
strength of the wind was sufficient to overcome the induced currents, and 
the fire burned to leeward. It ap[)ears as if the high wind permitted the 
in-draught to rise at a considerable angle after reaching the tire, leaving 
a large space of rarefied air in its front, inducing stronger currents to 
flow, which, on meeting the in-draught, gave the spiral or whirlwind form 
to the ascending current. 

" During the fire, a flock of ducks passed at a great height overhead ; 
and the light reflected from their plumage made them appear as fire-balls, 
passing rapidly through the air. Many who saw them called them 
meteors, and likened them to the balls said to have been seen north- 
west during the great fires in that region. As an example of the great 
beat diff^used, I would state, that, during the night, I exposed a ther- 
mometer in the observatory to the full glare of the fire, when it rose near 
five degrees, although placed upwards of two thousand feet from the burn- 
ing district, and dead to windward of it. No other phenomena occurred, 
the barometer rising slightly, and the weather remaining unchanged." 

H. E. COLE. 



654 

The "■ Traveller" newspaper observer, Mr. Q. T. 'Paine, of this city, 
reported tlie thermometer : — 





Sunrise. 


2 P. M. 


10 p. M. 


Weather. 


Nov'r 9. 


41° 


51 r 


4U° 


Very clear. 


" 10. 


36° 


50° 


40° 


(( (( 



Wind on the 9th throughout, W. N. W. (light) ; 10th, W. N. W., A. M ; 
N. W., P. M. ; N. N. W. evening (all light). 



LETTER FROINI W. W. GREENOUGH. 

20 West Street, Bostox, 20th Jan'y, 1873. 
Hon. Thomas Russell : — 

Dear Sir: — In answer to -ycwx inquiry of this date, relative to 
the supply of slide valves, since the time when I appeared before your 
committee, I will state generally and specifically. 

1. Tihe district which was burned by the great fire was substantially 
the dangerous part of the city, so far as the distributing mains of the 
Gas Company were concerned. The mains are now separated from the 
rest of the city, either by an absolute cutting off or by iron slide valves. 
When the pipes are relaid in this district, they will be provided with all 
the iron valves necessary to protect each sti'eet in case of a similar or 
smaller catastrophe. 

2. In the years 1870 and 1871 we introduced 136 slide valves at dif- 
ferent points of our distribution. In 1872, '116 additional were put in, 
including those rendered necessary by the fire and for the protection of 
other neighborhoods. 

3. We shall proceed during the present season to insert slide valves 
■wherever throughout our distributing they appear to be most needed, — 
contiiuiing the work from time to time, so long as deemed necessary. In 
this point the interest of the public is equally' ours. 

Yours respectfully, 

W. W. GREENOUGH. 



LETTER FROM GEO. GARDNER. 
Hon. Thomas Russell : — 

Dear Sir : — As you desired me to send vou some details, omitted in 
giving my observations on the nights of the Great Fire, I would mention 
that Messrs. Hovey & Co., to aid in saving tlieir store, had a large number 
of fire buckets to distribute where they might be wanted ; that the'gas light 
was an advantage ; that there were plenty of hands, and, what was very 
fortunate, that there was an iron rod, about waist high, along the eaves 
of tlie building, put up for piotection when clearing off snow ; the 
security this gave added greatly to freedom of action in extinguishing 
the fii-e on the roof. 

Sunday night there was danger on the upper side of the store, and had 
not the fire been checked before reaching it there would have been a less 
chance of successful resistance, for there was only the dim light of a few 



655 

lanterns, and there were not many people in the store, the military having 
prevented those passing who had gathered to go there. It would have 
been better to have let them pass with a guard to verify their claim of 
connection with the building. 

The gas explosions on Sunday night broke the drain in the stone, and 
gas was rising from it on Monday ; I consequently called on the Mayor 
and suggested that, for the gas to escape, the street drain should be 
opened some distance above. He was prompt to require the proper per- 
sons to examine the suggestion ; this, if an effectual mode, has advantages 
over shutting off the gas. 

Respectfully yours, 

GEORGE GARDNER. 

Hon Thomas Russell : — 

Dear Sir: — Mr. Tibbetts, of Salem, states that they received word 
there to furnish aid to the large fire at 10.15 o'clock, P. M. of Saturday, 
Nov. 9th. 

Yours, etc., 

H. W. LONGLEY, 

Secretary. 



FIRE SURVEYS. 

From a recent work on " Fire Surveys," by Capt. Shaw, the Chief of the 
London Fire Department, the Commission make the extracts below, and 
ask for their careful attention : — 

Stone. — " In the whole range of building materials, there is perhaps 
none so unsuited for resisting fire as that most commonly used." p. 13. 

" Stone is in no possible sense fire-proof, but, on the contrary, yields 
to the effects of a fire more rapidly than almost an}"^ other material com- 
monly used for building." 

Stone and other buiiding materials. — Serious and recent fires in large 
warehouses in London showed the following results : — 

" Bricks, uninjured ; wood, seriousl}' damaged, but only partially con- 
sumed. Iron, fractured,- and consequently worthless. Stone, shivered 
into fragments, and totally destroyed." p. 87. 

There are instances of " worthlessness of stone and iron for resisting 
moderately high temperature, such as 600° or 700° Far." For supports of 
floors, " wood of any kind, but especially hard wood, is infinitely prefer- 
able to stone or iron." p. 42, 

Cast-iron Columns. — " Iron at 212° Far., or boiling point, loses 15 
per cent, of strength; at 612° has no strength at all ; at 2787°, which 
is much below that of the centre of a large building on fire, it becomes 
liquid." 

Introduction of steam power has undoubtedly increased the risk of fire 
to a very serious extent, in a fourfold manner. From "furnace, " fric- 
tion," by " heating and clessicating buildings, so as to be more easily set 
on fire," and " vibration of buildings from machinery weakens the walls 
so that falling of roof, or floors," is " likely to bring the whole 
building down." p. 55. 



656 

Height of bniklings. — " It is found that sixty feet is the greatest 
height at vvliich a biiihling can be quickly protected, and that the cube 
of 60, or 210,000 cubic feet, is tlie hirgest cubical capacity which can be 
protected with reasonable hope of success after a fire has once come to a 
head." p. 12. 

Gas. — " Every building lighted with gas should have two command 
cocks to the main pipe , — one inside, and the other outside of the house, — 
and a meter should be placed so as to have free ventilation with the open 
air." p. 62. 

Safety. — "For safety of life, all high buildings should be provided 
■with external ladders of wrought iron." p. 10. 

Misks of fire. — " With regard to risk of tire, the contents of a build- 
ing are of much more importance than the building itself." p. 2. 

Portable apparatus. — " Portable apparatus," among which he names : 
" Stand Pipes," " Hand Pumps, with Pails," and " Hand Pumps without 
Pails." 



RESPIRATOR FOR FIREMEN. 

COPY OF PART OF A PRIVATE LETTER FROM PROF. TYNDALL. 

New York, Dec. 20, 1872. 

I think you might readily get a fireman's respirator constructed by 
some skilful mechanician in Boston. The mouth-piece may be one of 
those employed for the inhalation of nitrous oxide gas. Of coui'se it 
must be made to fit the mouth very well. Associated with this, you can 
have a cylinder of glass or tin, containing first a layer of an inch or so 
of cotton well moistened with gl3'cerine, and well teazed, so as not to 
form a clot. On this a thin layer of dry cotton wool. On this a layer 
of an inch or so of small charcoal fragments, then a little more cotton 
wool to keep the charcoal in, and finally a cap of open wire gauze to 
hold all together. 

With a little practice it will be easy to determine the proper density 
of the packing. Of course the breathing must be tolerably free. You 
can, if you like, have a hood associated with the respirator, and glass in 
the hood to see through, or the spectacles may be used separately. 

With a respirator of this kind, a fireman could live for hours in an at- 
mosphere, a single inhalation of which without the respirator would be 
intolerable. If carbonic acid be troublesome (but with the air circu- 
lating in fires I should think this was hardly ever the case), a layer of 
fragments of lime might be added. With such a respirator a young offi- 
cer of Engineers at Cliatham went some time ago into a cupboard with 
various animals, forced carbonic acid into the cupboard, and waited 
there till all the creatures had died around him ! 

Mr. Ladd, of Beak street. Regent street, London, undertook to con- 
struct these respirators. The subject was being experimented on by the 
London Fire Brigade when I came away. 

(Signed,) JOHN TYNDALL. 



INDEX. 



INDEX TO WITNESSES. 



Page 
Abbott, Samuel, Fireman, Engrine No. 3.... 567 
Abbott, Sanniel, jr.. Fireman. Engine No. 3 568 

Allen, i'hineas D., Assistant Engineer 195 

Armstrong, George W 239 

Atkinson, Edward 431 

Baldwin, George P 56, 2§1 

Barnes. Joseish, Assistant Engineer 206 

Barton, Isaac 11 146 

Bates, Joseph H., Sergeant of Police 366 

Baltis, Josiah S., Engineer, Engine No. 5 5U9 
Benhani, Henry "\V.. Gen., Col. of Engi- 
neers. U. S. A.. 635 

Bibrim, William 549 

Bigelow, Henry J.. M. D 142 

Bird, George W., formerly Chief Engineer, 521 

Bird, Joseph 521 

Blake, William, Driver Hose No. 8 533 

Blaney, William, Engineer in building first 

burned 277 

Bodge, Charles A., Private Watchman 293 

Bowlier, Albert 299 

Boyiiton, George W., Chief Constable of 

Mas-'achuseits 643 

Bradiee, Kathanicl J., Architect 434 

Bridgham. Sanford H., Driver, Engine No. 21 641 

Briggs, Lewis, Engineer, Engine No. 18 511 

Brooks, Charles, Driver, Hose No. 6 629 

Brooks, William E., Member of the Common 

Council 348 

Brown, George, Assistant Engineer 186 

Brown, George W., Engineer, Engine No. 9 509 
Brown, iSathan B., Foreman, Hose No. 2... 31 
Brown, William H., Police Officer, Charles- 
town 584 

Bryant, G. J. F., Architect 542 

Bullock, Buyd K 60 

Burt, George L., Member of the Common 

Council 556 

Burt, William L., Postmaster 385 

Cabot, Edward C, Architect 629 

Callender, Benjamin 343 

Carnes, George W 255 

Carpenter. George 211 

Carret, James K., Clerk to Mayor Gaston. . . 643 

Chadwick, J. H.. 346 

Chamberlain, David, Inspector of Buildings, 223 
Cheswell. Wm. T., Fireman, Engine No. 4. . 129 

Child, Daniel W., Sergeant of Police 69 

Clafliu, Daniel B 141 

Clark, George W., Assistant Engineer 132 

Clark, William B 139 

Clarke, Julius L., Insurance Commissioner. 571 

Collin, Judsoii H 58 

Cole, James T., Engineer, Engine No. 12... 615 
Colhoun, Edmund, Captain U. S. N., at 

Charleotowu Navy I'ard 547 

CoUamore, John 5u2 

Colligan, John, Assistant Engineer 200 

Cook, Asinette 237 

Cook, Mary F 235 

Cook. Wm. W., Police Officer 238 

Copeland, AVilliam 439 

CoUer, Patrick W 09 

Crafts, J. M 458 

Crane! Frank U., Ptdicc <^*ffiecr 363 

Cunningham, J. ,i... Adj. Gen. of Mass., .. 4uo 



Page 

Curtis, Greely S 454 

Curtis, Lawrence 462 

Cutter, Leonard K.. Alderman 587 

Daggett, Lyman "i^ 

Dainon, Albert P 610 

Damrell. John S., Chief Engineer, 84, 574, 614, 619 

Davis, Albert 609 

Davis. Joseph P., City Engineer 550 

Dearing, Dexter K., Engineer, Engine No. 

4.... ;....: ....:. ...124, 518 

Delano, Wm. E., Chief Engineer, Charles- 
town 339 

Dimon, C. A. R.. Sec. Boston Pro. Fire De- 
partment Association 323 

Dodd, Joseph, Pohce Officer 364 

Dorr. Clarence A 13, 625 

Drew, Atwood T., Chief Engineer, Water- 
town 484 

Dunbar, Joseph, Assistant Engineer 175 

Durell, William H., Supt. Street Work, Bos- 
ton Gas Co 333 

Eliot, C. W., Prest. of Harvard University.. 372 

Ely, Horatio. Driver, Hose No. 3 533 

Endicott, William, jr 274 

Farrar, Rufus B., Assistant Engineer 168 

Farrell, Benjamin F., Police Officer 72, 362 

Flanders. R. E., Fireman, Engine No. 21... 541 
Flanders, Brown S., Engineer, Engine No. 8, 519 
Flanders, William M., Member of the Com- 
mon Council 441 

Foster, Solomon S., Sergeant of Police 367 

Freeland, C. W 445 

Freeman, Eugene H., Engineer, Engine No. 

16 513 

Frye, Joseph 289 

Gage. Julius F 297 

Gardner, George 268 

Gaston, William, Mayor of Boston 567 

Gaylord, Willistou A.. Driver, Extinguisher 

Wagon No. 2 535 

Gilbert, Joseph R., Engineer, Engine No. 21 529 
Gilman, David E., Engineer, Engine No. 15 511 
Gordon, Jason, Driver, Hook and Ladder 

No. 7 538 

Gowen, Thomas W., Driver, Hose No. 9... 530 
Green, William A., Assistant Engineer. ... 45 
Greenough. Malcolm S., Assistant Engineer 

Boston Gas Co 316 

Greenough, William W.. Treasurer Boston 

Gas Co '. 307 

Gross. Joseph R 252 

Hall, John R., Architect 626 

Halsall. WilliamF 63 

Hamilton, Alonzo A 147 

Halhorne, Jacob II., Proprietor Citizens' 

Line of Coaches 611 

Hawkins, Alexander. Driver, Hose No. 10.. 539 

Hayden, Nathan, Fireman, Hose No. 2 420 

Hebard, Ezra B., Engineer, Engine No. 19, 512 

Hebard, t>. H., Assistant Engineer 189 

Hendry. William. Supt. Metropolitan Horse 

R. R 696 

Ilerscv, I'luodviv. I'iie-nuia. Engine No, 21. 573 



660 



Pase 

Higginson. Henry L a!*8 

Hills, Thomas. ChairTiian Board of Assessors o8l 
Hines.Frcderick M., Foreman. EngineNo. 3. 566 
Hines, William T., Fireman, Engnie No. 3. 570 

Hobart. A nlnir W 524 

Hoflrnan. Frederick, Police Officer 70, ."GO 

Holmes, John S 215 

Hunting, Henry 600 

Hutchings, Theodore. Engineer, Engine 
No. 3 517 

Jacobs, John 8., Assistant Engineer 410 

Jenkins \V. T 2'.i8 

Jenks, Thomas L., Alderman 265 

Jenness. Albci-t S., formerly Engineer in 

building first burned 422 

Johnson, lianiel H., Supt. "Water Works, 

Salem and Beverly 472 

Jones, Ezekiel R., Bnpt. Boston Water 

Works, Eastern Div 478 

Jones, William H., Member of the Common 

Council 611 

Kendrick, James R.. Supt. Old Colony R. R. 595 
Kenrick, Alfred, Jr., Engineer, Brook- 
line 489 

Kinsley. Joseph W 243 

Klous, Seman 79 

Laforme, Joseph A 283 

Lane, Charles C.. Engineer, Engine No. 17. 515 
Lawrence, Winfield'S., Fireman, Engine 

No . 3 569 

Leonard, Benjamin F., Driver, Hook and 

Ladder. No. 5 527 

Lord, Daniel B., Chief Engineer, Salem 477 

Lothrop, Thornton K., President Eastern 

li. K. Co 4.52 

Luce, Augustus, Police Officer 357 

Marden, Daniel T., Foreman, Engine No. 7 25 
Marston, James F., Member of the Common 

Council 494 

Martni, A. C, Architect 20 

Mather, Caleb T., Police Officer 365 

May, Samuel, Jr 585 

McCarty, Eugene, Police Officer 73 

McCauley, Kate 56 

McKay, James H 628 

Merrntt, Thomas, Driver, Extinguisher 

Wagon No. 1 ? 531 

Minns, Thomas, 261 

Morey, W. J., Police Officer 554 

Morse, Charles R., Truckman, Custom 

House 584 

Morse, Henry, Police Officer 654 

Morse, L. Foster. 220 

Moulton, Moses S., Police Officer 71 

Munroe, James, Assistant Engineer 197 

Murray, Franklin, Engineer, Engine No. 20 514 

Nannery, Thomas, Engineer, Engine No. 14 516 

Nason, Albert D '. 236 

Nichols, Robert C 349 

Norcross, Otis 493 

Norton, Eugene L 492 

O'Brien, William H 316 

Oliver, E. F., Treasurer Lynn and Boston 
Horse R. R 596 

Page, Cyrus A., Member of the Common 

Council 379 

Page. John M., Police Officer 10, 358 

Paine, Olin B 228 

Palmer, B. F 573 

Pear.son, Albert L., Driver, Hose No. 1 529 

Philbrick, Kilward 8.. Civil Engineer 466 

Pickering, Benjamin 1'., Foreman, Hose 5. 

Salem 612 

Pierce, Joseph. Acting Foreman, Engine 
No. 4 41 



Piper, Henry A 62, 

Plumer. Avery 

Po\v(^r. James, Alderman 

Powers, Charles E 

Powers, Patrick H 

Pratt. A lonzo C 

Pratt, Chesler D 

Pray, (ieorge B 

Prescott, James B., Driver, Hook and Lad- 
der. No. 3 

Prescott. Samuel F 

Prince, Charles A 

Prince, F. O 



433 

262 
285 
424 
67 
66 
555 

537 
281 
565 
548 



Quinn, James, Deputy Chief of Police 73 

Quinn, John 593 

Quirk, James 279 

Ray, John, Engineer, Engine, No. 1 ... 510 

Raymond. Patrick H., Chief Engineer, 

• Cambridge 337 

Reed, Arthur . .• 429 

Regan. John W.. Assistant Engineer 318 

Riley, Charles, Engineer, Engine No. 7 518 

Russell, Wm. G 4lil 

Sampson, Benj. H., Chief Engineer, Med- 

ford ; 504 

Sanderson, Augustine 6 

Sargent, Thomas C, Police Officer, Charles- 
town 583 

S.avage. Edward H., Chief of Police 325 

Schlesinger, S. B.. 466 

Shaw, Levi W., Assistant Engineer 191 

Shea, John, Police Officer 564 

Shepard, E. O., Member of the Common 

Council 303 

Smith, Zenas E., Assistant Engineer 180 

Snell, George, Architect 449, 465 

Solomon. Lewis L 276 

Stan wood, Albert. Supt. Boston Water 

Works, Western Div 219 

Stearns, Charles A., Fire Alarm Telegraph 

i)perator 12 

Stimpson, G. W.. Driver, Hose No. 7 534 

Stuart. Charles H., Police Officer 564 

Studley, John H., Supt. Middlesex Horse 

R. R 598 

Sturtevunt, Walter H., Engineer, Engine 
No. 11 508 

Tebbet,ts, William C 606,624 

Thatcher, Eleazer W 351 

Thayer, Benjamin F., Driver. Hose No. 4.. 539 
Thayer, Joseph E., Driver, Hook & Ladder 

No. 2 527 

Thompson, George W., Driver, Hook & 

Ladder No. 1 538 

Tracy, Frederic U., City Treasurer 17 

Traver, John C, Engineer, Engine No. 6... 520 
Twiss, George ()., Engineer, Engine No. 2. .. 510 
Tyng, Oilman, Engineer, EngineNo. 10.... 517 

Upton, George B., formerly Chief Engineer, 

Nantucket 352 

Very, T. S., Veterina^- Surgeon 218 

Vincent, George H 597 

530 
237 
496 
251 
369 
128 
260 



W.alker, Frank, Driver, Hose No. 2 

Wardwell. Mary A 

Warien, George W 

Wellington, Henry W 

Weston. John H.. Fireman, Hose No. 6 

White. Russell. Driver, Hose No. 4 

Whiting. William B 

Wool ley. William, Alderman. Chairman Fire 

Dep't Com 

Wqrdell, Frank M 

Wright, Frederick S.. Foreman, Engine 1.. 



150 
230 
282 



Young. Alexander K 1 

Young, S^i rah E 252 



INDEX TO EYIDENCE. 



Page 
Alarm, time of giving at box 52, 8, 10, 276, 

332, 858, 365 

'■ •• striking on l)ells 12 

- '• late ns cnnipnrc'd with progress of 

fire, 1(10. 134. 236-9. 2V2. ""263, 276, 297 
" citizens might have given, 117, 228, 

240, 293, 298 

" by central large bell, suggested 118 

" regulations concerning 575, 576, 577 

" boxes location and number 577, 622 

" "■ out of order at State Street 

fire, etc., 554, 564. 577 
Apparatus. See Fire Apparatus. 
Area burned over 384 



584 



626 
118 



Beginning of fire, time of. 63, 66, 276.297 

298, 318. 358, .5.30. 583. 

•' " location of. in basement, 

SI. 63, 66-7, 71, 215, 228-32, 238. 282, 

2t)8, 

'' of fire, location above basement, 

7, 13, 606, 609, 

Bells, difiicnlty of hearing 

Boiler in building first burned, position and 
surroundiug.s, 80, 277, 281.422, 624, 

625, 626, 627. 628 
Boiler in building fir.st burned, condition 

after Are, 439, 606 
Boxes. See Alarm Boxes. 

Building Act 23. 22.5, 629 

first burned, 1. 79, 298, 606. 62-1. 625, 

626. 627, 623 
Buildings, construction of, 20, 22, 100, 225, 

417, 542, 628 
See Hoofs. 
" consumed, number and value of 383 

Chicago fire 97, 101 

Chief Engineer, 32, 141. 156, 166, 170, 179, 

213, 3.38, 375. .525. .556. 593, 612, 637 
" relations with City Gov't. 105, 

117, 165, .5.58, 591 
Citizens' efforts in fighting fire. 21, 67, 111, 

120, 203, 269, 275, 346, 445, 523, 585 
" crowds impeding fii'emen, 24, 112, 

180,217, 241, 421,567-70 
See Organization. 
Coal. See Fuel. 

Cornhill, fire in 124, 138, 167, 171 

Cornices. t<ee Buildings, Roofs. 
Couplings, different sizes, 103,' 169, 173. 474, 

485, 488, 621 

Delays. See, Alarin. Citizens, Couplings. 
Fuel, Gunpowder. Horses, Orders, Water. 
Dualin. See Explosives. 
Dynamite. " 

Elevator in building first burned, fire in, 64, 

67, 
" " '' '• construc- 

tion of, 64. 66. 83. 2.35, 249, 
" with self-closing hatches, 249. 251, 
260. 447, 451,465, .542. 628. 
Engines in Boston, character of. 395, 498, 

503, 
'■ " number of 



228 

278 

632 

507 
104 



Page 
Engines, self propelling 225 

'' portable. See Hand Pump, Ez- 
tinguishers. 

See Fire Apparatus. 
Engineer, Chief. See Chief Engineer. 

" in building first burned 4, 56, 80 

Explosions. See Oas. Grunpoioder. 

Explosives 226, 353, 466 

" organization for use of necessary. 

120, 210, 562 
See Chmpovxler. 
Extinguishers, Chemical 531.535, 620 

Fire, management of, in general, 194, 200, 
203, 224, 246. 284, 341, 373, 386, 417, 

456, 486, 486, 495, 497, 502, 598, 642 
'• management of. in detail, 34, 75,85, 123, 
151,181,191.194,201, 207, 2.56, 269, 
274,317.347,3.35. 373.386,411, 419, 

425. 446. 4.52. 458. 462, 502, 523. 525 
'• rapid spread of, 33, 113, 194, 217, 249, 

290, -379 
'■ propagation of. See Buildings, con- 
struction of; Gas; Gunpowder; 
Radiation; Roofs; Wind. 
Fire Apparatus, arrival at fire. 7, 15, 26, 125, 
228, 230. 244, 276. 2S2, 323, 356, 360, 
487, 489, 500, 508-21, 527-42, 554, 

567-70, 573 

Fire apparatus, quality of 395, 475,498, 503 

location of, 104, 165, 402, 434, 

443, .521, 556, 581, 592 
" drawn by hand. See Iloises. 

Fire Boat 116, 248 

'• Companies, enlarged during horse dis- 
ease ^ 107 

'• Department, management of, 120, 203, 

32.i. 355, 375, 459. 575, 619 
"• Committee on, authority insutficient.165, 

442, 577, 612 

" Escapes 397, 419, 621 

Firemen, behavior of, praised, 16, 111^156, 
170, 188, 203, 306, 325, 338, 398, 403, 

418, 457 
" " blamed, 68, 185, 258, 

264, 266, 291, 322, 376, 583, 588 

" killed 617 

" number 120 

" out of town, control of, 169, 173, 

174. 246, 337, 339, 386, 473, 478, 485, 

503, 588, 613, 618 
Fuel for engines, supply of, 17. 104, 126, 131, 
149, 155, 170, lt6, 241, 286, 321, 329, 

377, 395. 422, 459, 466. 486. 567-70 
" '• furnished by citizens, 131. 149, 239, 

422, 459 

Gas, management of, 110, 167, 173. 227, 274, 

307, 328, 333, 391, 401, 620 

" gates 110, 167. 307, 334, 392 

" explosions 95, 109, 173, 175, 274 

'• mains broken 335 

" pipes " bj- explosions 54,110, 167 

See Gunpowder, xise of. 
Goods given awav. 112, 113, 154, 290, 322, 

308. 377, 398 



662 



Page 
Gunpowder, use of criticised, 54, 90, 97, 161, 
184, 2i0, 247, 262, 370, 393, 399, 416, 

473, 605, 648, 600, 640 

" used carelessly 163. 339, 566, 639 

" " successfully, 48. 61. 145, 214, 

266. 390. 4U5, 640 
" '' " ill Nantucket, 352 

" " unsuccessfully, 40. 48, 94, 

C7, 122, 136, 158, 247, 305, 391, 432, 

435, 400, 473 



Hand Pump 

Hatches. See Elevator. 
Horses delay for want of. 108, 125, 128, 
180, 344. 608-620, 527-542. 
" health of Nov. 9. 107. 108. 204. 
344, 487, 676, 684, 696- 

" behavior of 

Hose quality of 

" lo.ss of . . 126, 133. 181, 253, 

" bridges 127, 

" elev.itor 

" location of at hydrants 

" use on roofs. 9. 34, 133, 134, 137, 

171, 201, 256, 291, 340, 355. 369, 

411, 453. 456, 

Hydrants, different kinds, 102, 194, 197, 

225, 227, 437, 474, 478, 

" number of 103,115, 

'' see Couplings, Water. 



523, 620 



168, 
373, 

458, 
219, 
483, 
204, 



581 

611 
682 
171 
618 
578 
678 
622 



550 
612 



Incendiarism 331, 413 

Insurance wagon 244, 324 

Companies. Engll.sh 571 

Iron in Buildings. See Buildings. 

Ladders length of 75. 85, 324, 620 

See Fire, management in detail. 
Liquor shops closed 290, 322 

Mayor, 90, 158, 350, 409, 456, 494. 603. 636. 643 

Militia, beh.avior 112, 330. 409, 5.58 

•' means of calling out 112. 409. 561 

Mortar, use in building 544, 633 

Nozzles 373 

Orders, delay from want of 375, 503 

Organization of citizi ns for using powder, 
54, 92, 120, 161, 212, 303.380. 387, 400, 

431, 494, 558, 587, 600, 635, 643 



Page 
Organization of citizens for moving goods. . . 460 
Origin. See Beginning. 

Pavilion, fire in 124 

Pipes permanent in buildings, 405, 436, 448, 621 
Plaster. See Mortar. 

Police Department 78, 111, 

Private efforts. See Citisens. 

Radiation, prop.igating fire 21, 144' 

Refreshments for firemen. 113. 127, 376. 399, 419 

Reservoirs 75, 172, 481, 616, 551, 619 

Roofs, construction, 22, 101, 346,427, 432. 434, 

448, 642, 633 
" protection of 78. 88. 119, 208. 273, 450 
" propagation of fire by, 194, 224. 250, 

317. 397. 622 
" water thrown on, 20, 35, 37, 97. 134, 

137, 207, 532 
See Buildings, Hose, Fi >■ Escapes. 

State Constables 643 

State street fire 178.351, 554, 564. 577 

See Alarm boxes; Arrival of Fire Apparatus; 
Horses. 

Stone, behavior in fire 85, 171, 411 

Streets, width of 341, 407, 417 

Telegraphing for help ^6, 196 

Interrupted 196, 595 

Thieves 74, 112, 266, 327, 331, 583, 588 

Value of property destroyed 2, 281, 381 

Water, supply of, 42, 100, 115. 125, 130, 133, 
164, 193, 196. 199. 208. 249. 320, 3J5, 

415. 487. 490, 499, 503. 552. 633 
" waste of, 9, 15, 76, 142, 373. 415. 481, 

491, 551, 680, 590, 619 
" distribution of in burnt district. 75, 

100, 102, 154. 194. 219, 436, 476, 496 

" " " otherstreets 118, 204< 

« " " Salem 475 

" plans for supply 100, 650 

Walls, party, brick 20,42,427,445, 545 

Weather 1 17 

Wind, natural 385 

induced by fire, 145, 217, 275, 290. 340. 
402, 430, 5h9 
Wood in buildings..., 22, 405, 542, 545 



